Why is 10W60 Synthetic Specified?

[lti_57]

Pricey stuff!

yeah thats a fact 

[Bill Hagan]

My reading of the API specifications seems to say that if it is higher alphabetically than the recommended, then you are in good shape.  Also, API.org list SG as being obsolete. 

http://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/eolcs-categories-and-documents/oil-categories#tab_gasoline

jdg

Yup.

SL includes -- as I understand it, a mile-wide disclaimer  -- all priors, e.g., SG.

Bill

[MotoBug]

My V7ii is usingMotul 10w60 but the Penrites looks like a cheaper option and is easily available from a local chain store. Is this the same Penrites mentioned above? Seems like it.

[pete roper]

What I use exclusively is Penrite 10 Tenths Premium Ten 10/60. Yes, it's pricey. Buy it in a 20L drum and get a drum pump and the cost drops dramatically. I've never had an oil related failure using Penrite products and the 10/60 puts up with the demands imposed by the 8V in 40*C+ heat just fine.

Pete

[MotoBug]

Is it this stuff but in 10w60?

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Penrite-10-Tenths-Racing-10-Engine-Oil-10W-40-5-Litre/339062

How does that differ to the one mentioned earlier? It says full zinc but somebody mentioned damage to catalytic convertors.

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Penrite-MC-4-Synthetic-Motorcycle-Oil-10W-60-4-Litre/519011

[pete roper]

Page 37 of the Penrite catalogue.

[beetle]

I get my Penrite 10-Tenths 10W-60 from Autobarn. It ain't cheap. Most Guzzista would have a coronary.

[River Rat]

Autobarn's advertising 30% off all engine oil at present, gunna check it out on the weekend 

[Ncdan]

This is the oil my calvins PO used and recommended, anyone else here ever used this oil?

[Nick]

This is the oil my calvins PO used and recommended, anyone else here ever used this oil?

I've used that on my Norge a few times

[Bill Hagan]

This is the oil my calvins PO used and recommended, anyone else here ever used this oil?

I've used that on my Norge a few times

Draining from mine now.

ENI this time, but only because I have that.

Bill

[Nick]

Draining from mine now.

ENI this time, but only because I have that.

Bill

I purchased a case of ENI last year, so I'll be using it for the next 3-4 oil changes 

[bad Chad]

I use Motul  7100, have for years.  Seems to work great, and smells good too!

[Ncdan]

I use Motul  7100, have for years.  Seems to work great, and smells good too!

I just ordered a 4liter jug on EBay for 47.99 including shipping.

[Porterhouse]

I have a feeling this response is more than likely the most accurate post thus far. I have never put more than 30k on any of the dozens of bikes I've owned. The id bet good money that any of those bikes would have made it flawlessly 30k ,simply using straight 30wt Dino non detergent lawnmower grade oil. Heck I've got an old air cooled Briggs and Stratton push mower with 1000 hours on that mention 30 wt Dino oil.

Yeah, why not pass the buck on to the next sucker... 

#Ethics

[Tom]

The 2 Penrite oils are API SN rated so should be okay to run.  The only difference the upper range, I don't think you want 40W for Summer temps.

[Jurgen]

I drive (in addition to my B-750) a VW GTI and VW specifies a Euro-Spec synthetic because of sludge build-up and subsequent engine failures of older GTI engines using non synthetics.  The only one readily available here locally is Mobil 1 0W-40.  In over 105K miles the engine is still clean.  This may be a similar thing with the 10W-60 synthetic spec from Guzzi.

Jurgen

[Lannis]

I purchased a case of ENI last year, so I'll be using it for the next 3-4 oil changes 

Give that man a cigar.   People order everything else in the world, but if the local shop doesn't carry their oil, it's suddenly a crisis .... ?

Lannis

[kingoffleece]

I use the Motul 7100.

[MotoBug]

This is the oil my calvins PO used and recommended, anyone else here ever used this oil?

Yep. Another user here. Only because that's what the mechanic put in. I bought a litre for top ups but yet to use it. Thanks for the tip Ratty. The Penrite oil will be 5 litres for $60AUD on Saturday. Might be worth stocking up.
Is this the one you use Pete and Beetle? https://www.autobarn.com.au/penrite-premium-10-full-synthetic-10w60-5l

I'm guessing you can't mix oil brands but do you need to do some kind of flush when swapping to a different brand?  From what I understand you do if going from synth to dino.

[pete roper]

Yeah, that's the stuff. As I said, buy it in a 20L drum, it's a lot cheaper.

Just drain the last lot out and put the new stuff in. Stop worrying, it'll be fine.

Pete

PS. There are two drain plugs on the smallblock sump. Remove both.

[MotoBug]

Cheers for that.  Not worrying. Just curious. Another 7000km before next change.

[DaSwami]

My old dealer in Spokane stocked and used the Motorex 4t Power Synt 10w-60 for servicing my V7 and V7II

[Kev m]

Shortly after buying my V7 I bought a case of AGIP/ENI (I think I still had a few bottles leftover from the case I bought for my Breva 1100). Anyway, I'm down to one oil change left these five years later and I guess it's time to spend less on another case than I would for one night out with the wife.

Shyte you guys are cheap bastids!!!!

[Ncdan]

Yeah, why not pass the buck on to the next sucker... 

#Ethics

Lighten up Poterhouse, just kidding. I use the best of everything in my motors and have for 45 years and yes a lot of the money was pissed away. Also truth be known most any bike would run 100k on reprocess oil, lmbo

[Moto]

I've always used the recommended oil.

But I'm beginning to think that we have discussed oil specs more, and really care more about them, than the Guzzi engineers ever did.

The Griso 1100 was originally specified for 4T 5W 40 (in the owner's manual) and then respecified to 4T 10W 60 in a bulletin. Then 4T 10W 60 was also specified for the much higher output 1200. Why did the 1100 specification get revised?

I think the Guzzi engineers just picked likely specifications out of the Agip product brochure, without much deep thought. For them, after all, the extra expense of the higher grade oil meant absolutely nothing. When the 10W 60 came along, they said, "Sure, wazza matter, why not? We put him in everything, they all be good. Lezza go for espresso!"

As for us, let's put him in all our bikes too, and go for espresso. Wazza matter?

[Ncdan]

I've always used the recommended oil.

But I'm beginning to think that we have discussed oil specs more, and really care more about them, than the Guzzi engineers ever did.

The Griso 1100 was originally specified for 4T 5W 40 (in the owner's manual) and then respecified to 4T 10W 60 in a bulletin. Then 4T 10W 60 was also specified for the much higher output 1200. Why did the 1100 specification get revised?

I think the Guzzi engineers just picked likely specifications out of the Agip product brochure, without much deep thought. For them, after all, the extra expense of the higher grade oil meant absolutely nothing. When the 10W 60 came along, they said, "Sure, wazza matter, why not? We put him in everything, they all be good. Lezza go for espresso!"

As for us, let's put him in all our bikes too, and go for espresso. Wazza matter?

Spot on moto

[Kev m]

The Griso 1100 was originally specified for 4T 5W 40 (in the owner's manual) and then respecified to 4T 10W 60 in a bulletin. Then 4T 10W 60 was also specified for the much higher output 1200. Why did the 1100 specification get revised?

WAS it actually spec'd for 5W-40, or was that a typo, i.e. a careless write of the new manual which blocked and copied from a previous model for some of the content (a very common way these manuals are built)?

[Moto]

WAS it actually spec'd for 5W-40, or was that a typo, i.e. a careless write of the new manual which blocked and copied from a previous model for some of the content (a very common way these manuals are built)?

No. Previous models did not specify 5W-40, so far as I can tell, so your suggestion doesn't seem plausible in this case.

The introduction to the engine in a company presentation makes clear that the 1100 is very similar to the V11, which carried a very mundane oil specification in its workshop manual:

Engine sump 3,5 "Agip 4T SUPER RACING SAE 20W50" oil

This is not much different from the T-3's specification 30 years  earlier:

Agip SINT 2000 SAE 10W 50

Here's how Guzzi described the differences between the new Breva/Griso engine and the earlier V11, in  the so-called Breva 1100 Service Manual, which was really a set of powerpoint slides:

From a technical point of view the engine is very similar to the one already installed to the V11.
A series of optimisations and improvements of single components have been Implemented.
Principal novelties are:
• alternator (is explained later in ELETTROMECHANICAL COMPONENTS)
• oil circuit with pressure valve and external oil filter
• valve retainer with three grooves to allow rotation for even wear of the valve • longer drive shaft (4 mm)
• new 1st piston ring with L-shape to reduce blow-by gas
• cylinder head and base gasket metallic
• sintered valve seats
• two spark plugs per cylinder (is explained later in IGNITION COMPONENTS) • new aspect cylinder head covers
• new gearbox

The recommended engine oil for the Breva/Griso engine in that early document is also Agip RACING 4T 5W-40.

The 5W-40 recommendation was not simply a copying of the one for the similar V11, since that was 20W 50. It was just a routine substitution of a more modern oil for the same basic engine.

Another factor that might have played a role in the eventual change to 10W60 is a desire to make the Guzzi 1100 seem more exotic than it really is. If it needs such expensive oil, it must be a cutting-edge design, right? The answer is no, it's just the old design being "oil-engineered" to seem like a new one, just like cars have been "badge engineered" into new ones from times long ago.

These comments of course wouldn't apply to the 1200 8V engine, which is a different animal.

Moto

[Randown]

I drive (in addition to my B-750) a VW GTI and VW specifies a Euro-Spec synthetic because of sludge build-up and subsequent engine failures of older GTI engines using non synthetics.  The only one readily available here locally is Mobil 1 0W-40.  In over 105K miles the engine is still clean.  This may be a similar thing with the 10W-60 synthetic spec from Guzzi.

Jurgen

The small turbo runs HOT & cooks the oil, it then breaks down & causes the sludge. Over the years VW came out with several oil specs, yours is probably 502.00. Though it is possible for an oil to meet this spec & simply not carry the rating, without knowing I think any owner would want to stick with the rated oils. It's reported that the 502.00 spec didn't eliminate the sludge issue but I imagine it helped quite a bit.

Guzzi likely specifies a synthetic for two reasons:

- There is no conventional oil that spans a viscosity range like 10W60
- A higher thermal breakdown specification

The XXW60 & the higher temperature rating is no doubt for operation in hot weather. If someone were to run a 10W40 conventional oil in this engine for use in a moderate climate application, they'd want to know the highest temperature the oil is exposed to after shut-down without circulation.