1998 V11 EV fuel pump issue

[Edgo897]

Took my bike on its first long ride yesterday and today. It's got 24k on it. I've gone though all the systems and replaced the usual stuff. After riding about 75 miles after a gas stop, I stopped to top off the tank. When I turned the ignition on the fuel pump didn't buzz and the bike wouldn't start. I turned the ignition off and on a couple of times and the pump buzzed and the bike fired up and ran fine. On the way home today it did it again after a gas stop. So do I have a bad ignition switch or is the pump going out? When the key is turned all the dash lights fire up. It has a new Odyssey Battery.

Thanks,
Ed

[oldbike54]

 Sounds like the pump . Sometimes a good cleaning will prolong their service life .

 Dusty

[LowRyter]

check your fuses.  the same thing happened to me.

The fuses get corroded and the fuse block doesn't always hold the fuses tight.

I had the same problem and it persisted for more than a year.  The bike wouldn't restart, usually at a gas station.  Since I wear ear plugs I didn't listed for the fuel pump.  It was confirmed at Dusty's campout when the bike quit and Rudy was testing for current and he only touched the fuse and the pump came on.

Even after replacing the fuse, using dielectric grease, and installing the new fuse with some "english", it has happened again on a couple of occasions. 

[Edgo897]

I did use tuner cleaner and grease on the fuses and put in new relays. I went through the bike fairly thoroughly. I even had a new fuel pump in the trunk but didn't swap it on the road.

[Edgo897]

I didn't clean the connections to the pump. That was dump. I'll try that.

[fotoguzzi]

clean up or get rid of the sidestand safety switch.. just in case..

[Kiwi_Roy]

clean up or get rid of the sidestand safety switch.. just in case..

I think this is it as well, the fact that the idiot lights are coming on points away from the ignition switch.
if the stand relay doesn't close the ECU relay doesn't pick up so neither roes the power relay.
On the EV or at least on the one I had the Normally open contact is used so unplugging the stand switch should make the relay contacts close

I would change out the relay for a start the Normally closed contacts are a bit of a a wet point.

I often suggest adding a small light to the petcock fuse this can be quite useful for troubleshooting, it can just sit under the seat.
If the stand relay is not making good contact this light will wink away at you hence this has been christened the "Go Winkie Light"
 
 

[oldbike54]

 Here is why I don't think it is a relay or the sidestand switch . The bike is running fine , which indicates the switch and relay is fine . It is doing exactly what mine , and several others have done when the pump gets week and can't get its self started . Easy to check , run a jumper and see if the pump runs .

 Dusty

[Kiwi_Roy]

You might be right Dusty, perhaps the brushes are worn down so they barely touch the armature, I think that would be a high milage bike for that to happen, any suggestion as to at what point the pump should be changed out?

I have experienced trouble with the stand circuit as well, its a very common problem on the spine frame bikes

[oldbike54]

You might be right Dusty but I have experienced trouble with the stand circuit as well, its a very common problem on the spine frame bikes

 Won't a bad sidestand switch kill the starter motor ? Maybe we should start there .

 Dusty

[rodekyll]

If it's a marginal pump, whacking it with a wrench as you toggle the kill button should overcome the sticksion and kick it into life.  Reversing the pump leads will reverse the pump and blow out anything in the pump's internal screen.  Don't do this too long, since the available fuel is only what's in the loop.  If the whacking helps and the reversing doesn't then the pump is failing.

[oldbike54]

 For some reason the best tool for whacking the fuel pump is a 10 MM combination wrench manufactured in Germany before 1970 , although in a pinch a rock tied to a stick will work .

 Dusty

[Kiwi_Roy]

Won't a bad sidestand switch kill the starter motor ? Maybe we should start there .

 Dusty

Edgo897 said
"..when I turned the ignition on the fuel pump didn't buzz and the bike wouldn't start."

Perhaps by "wouldn't start" he meant "wouldn't crank"
Yes the stand relay feeds 12 Volts to the Start Relay and the ECU relay

Everything is pointing at the stand switch or relay

The 98 EV uses the Normally closed relay contact, the switch may be tracking across, its 20 years old after all

[Edgo897]

Yes it turns over but won't fire. No fuel pump buzz but lights come on. Thank you all very much. I'm looking for the proper rock and stick.

[Edgo897]

So how do I disable the stand switch? It's so unnecessary. I think it's the pump but don't want that switch.

And by the way I rode from just North of Tampa across Florida back roads to New Smyrna Beach, then up and down that coastal area. It was without question the two most beautiful days this year. Once the bike started it performed great. It never missed a beat.

I was sitting at a stoplight, almost home, when a guy on a Harley trike pulled up next to me. He looked at my Guzzi and said "that is a badass f*cking motorcycle".

[guzzisteve]

Just unplug it, follow wire up front down tube on frame, may be behind the frame cover in front of tank. All you have to do is unplug it.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Get yourself a can of Caig DeOxit. Pull each fuse in turn, give it and the fuse holder a squirt, stick it back in, wiggle it around.. oh, you know..
If you haven't upgraded the relays, do that. Pyro Dan sells GCIs cheap. There has been a fair amount of testing on relays on the V11 Lemans forum. Best are the Omrons sold here:

                   http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/omron-electronics-inc-emc-div/G8HE-1C7T-R-DC12/Z5645-ND/2755412
They are inexpensive.
At any rate, give the relay blocks a squirt, too..

I'll bet the above cures it. I would doubt it is a fuel pump unless it is a high mileage bike.

[Zoom Zoom]

For some reason the best tool for whacking the fuel pump is a 10 MM combination wrench manufactured in Germany before 1970 , although in a pinch a rock tied to a stick will work .

 Dusty

O Gawd, that's funny!

John Henry

[LowRyter]

I think a replacement fuel pump is $75.  If you've gone through the fuses and relays, this might be the next step. 

I had a relay failure on my Sport, it would click but the pump didn't buzz.  Replaced them all the relays (BTW- I had already replaced the fuel pump after it stranded me 10 miles from home.  Bike had less than 35k miles on it when the fuel pump froze).

[rodekyll]

Just unplug it, follow wire up front down tube on frame, may be behind the frame cover in front of tank. All you have to do is unplug it.

Well, you also need to secure it once it's unplugged.  Don't let the end hang loose.

The pump is a very common bosch type.  If you decide you need a new one, you can find it and clones all over ebay.  Most of the pumps that look right are right, except that they can have different spigot arrangements.  Select one that has the inlet and outlet you like and go for it.

[n3303j]

Sounds like the pump . Sometimes a good cleaning will prolong their service life .
 Dusty

Please explain this "good cleaning".
Gut it and recondition?
Run in reverse?
Properly wax the exterior?

Enquiring minds want to know....

[oldbike54]

Please explain this "good cleaning".
Gut it and recondition?
Run in reverse?
Properly wax the exterior?

Enquiring minds want to know....

  OK , that's funny 

 What it means is remove the pump , spray some carb cleaner thru it , and either run in reverse in a pan of gasoline (which seems risky to me , but others have done  it) , or blow thru it with maybe 15 lbs of air pressure . The pumps gum up , and sometimes a good cleaning helps .

 Kiwi Roy , did we ever decide if the sidestand switch disables the starter motor on a '98 model ? Anyone else know for sure ? Pete ?

 Dusty

[Wayne Orwig]

Clean the fuse connectors and replace the fuses.
Clean the relay connectors and replace the relays. (look for the dpguzzi.com site for good replacements)
It may be the ignition switch.
May be, but less likely to be, the sidestand switch.
Possibly a gummed up pump, though they are pretty reliable. Pour a can of cleaner in the tank and run it.

[Edgo897]

I have used some Radio Shack tuner cleaner and diaelectric grease on everything in the fuse box. I  changed out relays and fuses yesterday and it starts no problem. I have an eBay fuel pump made in China, it was $29.00. I know, probably junk but better than a dead Bosch one. I still think it's the pump so I'll swap it out and go for a ride.

Ed

[Wayne Orwig]

and diaelectric grease on everything in the fuse box

Sadly that is going to ruin a lot of things.

 
 

[Edgo897]

Sadly that is going to ruin a lot of things.

 

why is that? I coated (not gooped) the connections in there and in all the plugs throughout the bike. Never caused a problem on a dozen other bikes I've owned. The amount I used isn't going to penetrate the relays.

[Kiwi_Roy]

 Kiwi Roy , did we ever decide if the sidestand switch disables the starter motor on a '98 model ? Anyone else know for sure ? Pete ?

 Dusty

Yes it does on the 98 EV
Both the ECU and Start relays are fed from the Stand relay

I will post my Fuse / Relay sketch here next week, I ned a jpeg for that.

[Edgo897]

My bike starts with the side stand down or up.

[oldbike54]

My bike starts with the side stand down or up.

 Might already be disabled , most of them are .

 

Yes it does on the 98 EV
Both the ECU and Start relays are fed from the Stand relay

I will post my Fuse / Relay sketch here next week, I ned a jpeg for that.

 Thanks Roy , kinda thought this was the case , why it was important to know if the starter was turning over . We always get the answer 

 Dusty

[LowRyter]

My bike starts with the side stand down or up.

most of those bikes have had the side stand switch disconnected.