V85 TT Merged Threadfest

[Gustavo]

John, hp may go down at altitude, but so does wind resistance. It's not 1:1, but it closes the gap.

I have no doubt about what you guys say regarding the V7 being able to run at highway speeds without a problem, but I think you are underestimating the effect of altitude on HP.  I live in the valleys of the left coast, so not significantly higher than where you guys hang out on the right one.  The difference is that those tall mountains are in my regular riding loops (some closer than others).  You can cruise at 70-80 w/o a problem, but I haven't had the throttle pinned like I do on those roads anywhere else when passing.  You always have to keep that in mind when calculating the distance needed to pass more than one car at a time. 

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that 80 (or even 50) HP isn't more than enough in all but most ambitious passing maneuvers.  But at high elevations, you can tell there those horses aren't pulling like they used to...   

Gustavo

[Kev m]

I have no doubt about what you guys say regarding the V7 being able to run at highway speeds without a problem, but I think you are underestimating the effect of altitude on HP.  I live in the valleys of the left coast, so not significantly higher than where you guys hang out on the right one.  The difference is that those tall mountains are in my regular riding loops (some closer than others).  You can cruise at 70-80 w/o a problem, but I haven't had the throttle pinned like I do on those roads anywhere else when passing.  You always have to keep that in mind when calculating the distance needed to pass more than one car at a time. 

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that 80 (or even 50) HP isn't more than enough in all but most ambitious passing maneuvers.  But at high elevations, you can tell there those horses aren't pulling like they used to...   

Gustavo

Sure I believe that. But I didn't take passing as part of the conversation. I thought the question was the ability to hold speed on a highway at elevation.

[tazio]

I may have missed this but...is that gas tank metal?  If plastic I'd be cautious.  After a couple Stelvio tanks, a couple Norge tanks, and a FEW Multistrada tanks I'm over that particular experiment.

Peter Y.

Photos show a small grill/vent on both sides of tank near front leading edge.
Wonder if tank sides are just panels(metal or otherwise) covering fuel cell..
?

[twowheeladdict]

I have no doubt about what you guys say regarding the V7 being able to run at highway speeds without a problem, but I think you are underestimating the effect of altitude on HP.  I live in the valleys of the left coast, so not significantly higher than where you guys hang out on the right one.  The difference is that those tall mountains are in my regular riding loops (some closer than others).  You can cruise at 70-80 w/o a problem, but I haven't had the throttle pinned like I do on those roads anywhere else when passing.  You always have to keep that in mind when calculating the distance needed to pass more than one car at a time. 

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that 80 (or even 50) HP isn't more than enough in all but most ambitious passing maneuvers.  But at high elevations, you can tell there those horses aren't pulling like they used to...   

Gustavo

I rode at 7000 - 10000 feet for 3 weeks in September and never an issue with my V7III. 

[twowheeladdict]

I spent ten days in Montana in August and did a lot of sight seeing.  The West is.....VAST.  That's the best word I can use to describe it.  It's also really high in altitude.  The average elevation in Montana is 3,400'.  It's 6,800' in Colorado.  There are over 80 paved roads in Colorado that go above 6,000'.  The average elevation above sea level in Florida is 100'.  I really, really like the V7III(especially the blue Special) but I'm not convinced you'd run 85-90mph all day at 5-8,000' elevation.  If you accept the dyno charts on the internet a V7III has 47-48hp at the wheel. That's at sea level.  It would have about 40hp at 5,000' and about 35hp at 8,000.  That's close to what an old Honda CB350 had and neither of the two CB350's I owned would run 85-90 all day.  You need twice that hp to maintain 80mph out there and that's right where the V85TT is going to come in at.   

I think of the V85TT as an Italian, high spec 650 V-Strom.  That's a good thing as the Wee is one of the all time great ADV bikes.   

Tell me what roads at those elevations that you would want to run at 80? When I am at those elevations I am enjoying the ride, not stabbing it.

[auzziguzzi]

https://www.motociclismo.it/moto-guzzi-v85-segreti-motore-intervista-cappellini-70088

80 nm @ 3400 rpms.

Correct me if I'm wrong but That's 38 BHP at 3400 rpm.   There.  Fixed.

[Gustavo]

That's right, it should make about 38HP at that RPM.

Gustavo

[Huzo]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's 38 BHP at 3400 rpm.

Why would that strike you as strange.
Remember a Hyabusa @ 3,000 rpm is roughly doing half the work/ time as it is @ 6,000 rpm.
BHP or kW is the rate at which work is being done. At 6,000 revs if the torque is the same roughly, the power is twice that @ 3,000 revs.
So @ 3,000 revs the rate of doing work is fairly low, hence a less than flattering figure.
Power is not something you "have", it is a mathematical expression of the rate at which you have moved a mass, not how quickly you "CAN" move that mass.

[Clifton]

The more I read... the more I see the Africa Twin being a much more sensible purchase. Same price. Aside from interest in the Guzzi name, I don't see a lot of reason to pick the V85 over the AT.

From a practical standpoint you're probably right, the V85 will basically be all new while Honda has had 3 years ironing out early issues and improving the Africa Twin. Then there's the dealer base or lack thereof.

I have a 2016 AT, purchased barely used on a whim, which I found initially to be a very nice if somewhat underwhelming motorcycle. But the longer I lived with it the more I appreciated what it was and then really started bonding with this motorcycle. The bike I traded in for it (Yamaha FJ-09) was just the opposite being initially quite impressive to ride but not so enjoyable to live with.

The AT is narrow, not too tall, great ergonomics, handles wonderfully on gravel and dirt roads if a bit slow to turn in at speed on paved roads, good windscreen and protection w/o too much, nice, even, power delivery, good range on it's 5 gallon tank, compliant suspension with a much nicer ride on bad surfaces than two other bikes I had, DR650 and R1200GSA, and it has a nice throaty, deep, sound that's not too loud.
More and more when I went to the garage the AT was the bike I found myself wanting to ride so I sold the 2014 GSA. Riding the AT actually reminded a lot me of one of my favorite bikes from the past, an R100GS. Only with more power, better brakes, and reliable.

There are 2-3 things about the AT I don't like though.
1) Tube Type tires.
2) Checking and adjusting valves will be time consuming, I believe a "5 shop hour" procedure.
3) This is really pretty minor but no cruise control.

I'm looking forward to the V85 and hearing initial and then long term impressions of it. I imagine it'll probably run similar to an AT with more of an on-road emphasis.

[Diploman]

I agree entirely with Chuck Re: Ear protection on a Moto.  Hearing damage may very likely occur over time without ear plugs.

Chain vs. Shaft drive:  I use both routinely:  KTM 390 Duke; Guzzi V50II.  Each drive type has advantages and drawbacks.  Overall, however, I prefer the shaft for low maintenance and cleanliness.  One important aspect where shaft is clearly superior is in rear wheel alignment.  This never varies from perfect with shaft, while getting complete wheel alignment after a chain adjustment is at best an inexact procedure likely to result in imperfect alignment.  It can require 2-3 iterations and then may be only closely approximate.

[travelingbyguzzi]

In many places at lower elevation, we may ride 80-90 because we are just keeping up with traffic, or trying to find that empty spot where there are no other vehicles. The thing to remember about losing power at higher elevations is that other vehicles also lose power. I don't know that other Coloradians are typically driving that fast.  Maybe in pockets of I -25 around population centers?

[Darren Williams]

Power is not something you "have", it is a mathematical expression of the rate at which you have moved a mass, not how quickly you "CAN" move that mass.

Agree with this. That's why someone said something like "you ride torque, not horsepower". A torque curve really tells you more how an engine is going to perform and feel.

[Huzo]

Agree with this. That's why someone said something like "you ride torque, not horsepower". A torque curve really tells you more how an engine is going to perform and feel.

That's three of us that agree Darren.
You, me and Isaac Newton. The initial torque imparted into the crankshaft is a function of the thrust of the con rod multiplied by the crank throw. No different from pulling on a spanner (wrench).
It's force (Newtons) x distance (metres) = Newton metres (Nm)
Anyway.
All that is transferred to the rear wheel by the mechanism that we are all familiar with.
You "feel" the effects of torque which provides "acceleration" and the acceleration is the increase in the "rate of doing work" which is "power".

[guzzisteve]

I'll bet it's nowhere by 80hp like they claim.

[Kev m]

I'll bet it's nowhere by 80hp like they claim.

Oh sweet baby jezus not this again! [emoji50]

[auzziguzzi]

In many places at lower elevation, we may ride 80-90 because we are just keeping up with traffic, or trying to find that empty spot where there are no other vehicles. The thing to remember about losing power at higher elevations is that other vehicles also lose power. I don't know that other Coloradians are typically driving that fast.  Maybe in pockets of I -25 around population centers?

Not if they have a turbocharger they don't.  Be careful when picking off a docile-looking Audi for a high altitude, passing manoeuvre.

[Huzo]

Oh sweet baby jezus not this again! [emoji50]

I think probably so Kev..

[kingoffleece]

I know, right?  Like it really matters............ ........

[rdbandkab]

This thread got me wondering what hp the ole 06 B11 put out.

From RIDER magazine:
Strapped onto the Borla Performance Dynojet dynamometer, the Breva spun up 71.7 rear-wheel horsepower at 7,400 rpm and 56.3 lb-ft of torque peaked at 5,500 revs.

And you know what?  If what they come out with has similar numbers, I'm happy with that.  I've never had an issue with top end or making a pass on a 2 lane whilst 2up...  Heck, don't even tell me what hp it has.

I'm more interested in seeing if they outfit all the new models (with this engine) with Ohlins suspension. 

[Kev m]

This thread got me wondering what hp the ole 06 B11 put out.

From RIDER magazine:
Strapped onto the Borla Performance Dynojet dynamometer, the Breva spun up 71.7 rear-wheel horsepower at 7,400 rpm and 56.3 lb-ft of torque peaked at 5,500 revs.

FWIW - FBF got 75 hp / 58 ft. lbs. of torque on mine before the GuzziTech reflash (which did honestly feel like a kick in the pants).

That CARC big-block was a solid feeling motor!

[dcardo021]

I spent ten days in Montana in August and did a lot of sight seeing.  The West is.....VAST.  That's the best word I can use to describe it.  It's also really high in altitude.  The average elevation in Montana is 3,400'.  It's 6,800' in Colorado.  There are over 80 paved roads in Colorado that go above 6,000'.  The average elevation above sea level in Florida is 100'.  I really, really like the V7III(especially the blue Special) but I'm not convinced you'd run 85-90mph all day at 5-8,000' elevation.  If you accept the dyno charts on the internet a V7III has 47-48hp at the wheel. That's at sea level.  It would have about 40hp at 5,000' and about 35hp at 8,000.  That's close to what an old Honda CB350 had and neither of the two CB350's I owned would run 85-90 all day.  You need twice that hp to maintain 80mph out there and that's right where the V85TT is going to come in at.   

I think of the V85TT as an Italian, high spec 650 V-Strom.  That's a good thing as the Wee is one of the all time great ADV bikes.   

Just spent the summer riding those roads at those speeds with a V7III . No problem keeping up with the Grisso.  Road conditions bigger factor than HP.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[pete roper]

Bit more info and hyperbole.

https://www.motociclismo.it/moto-guzzi-v85-tt-2019-tutti-dettagli-tecnici-71226#top-carousel

[Gustavo]

Why hyperbole?  Seemed like a good run through the specs to me.  Weighs on the high side of what was expected.  The tires are not tubeless.  The first part isn't a deal breaker.  The second is.   

Gustavo

[TimmyTheHog]

Why hyperbole?  Seemed like a good run through the specs to me.  Weighs on the high side of what was expected.  The tires are not tubeless.  The first part isn't a deal breaker.  The second is.   

Gustavo

Seat Height: 830mm...Hoping there is a lower seat option or I will be visiting seat maker really soon :P

MPG: looks like ~48 MPG...means ~260miles...not bad not bad...

Weight: seems to align with what they claim...but will need actual testing by the owner as we all know how optimistic factory sometimes are with their numbers...

Tires: the tube tires are a bit disappointment...fo r sure...

[Trialsman]

Here is what I have translated so far from the article:

The classic travel enduro of the Aquilla is powered by a 90 degree 853cc twin-cylinder, air-cooled engine capable of delivering 80 bhp at 7,750 rpm and a maximum torque of 80 Nm at 5,000 rpm. The bore and stroke of the twin cylinder are 84 x 77mm with a compression ratio of 10.5: 1. The gearbox is 6-speed. The tank is 21 liters and the declared autonomy is around 400 km. The V85 TT weighs 208 kg dry, rising to 229 kg in running order.

The engine is set in a tubular frame made of high-strength steel. It is matched with a 41 mm diameter upside-down fork, adjustable in preload and extension, and a double arm swingarm with single right side shock absorber, also adjustable in preload and extension.
Both suspensions have a 170 mm excursion. In contact with the ground there are two air-filled tires with dimensions of 19 "and 17". The V85 TT is braked by a Brembo radial attack brake system with a double 320 mm floating disc.

The electronics of the V 85 TT include features ABS, MGCT traction control and ride-by-wire accelerator. It is possible to choose between three mappings:

- ROAD: provides a medium level of calibration MGCT (Moto Guzzi Traction Control), ABS is active on both channels and provides a ready gas response.

RAIN: provides a higher level of traction control calibration, ABS active on both wheels and a gentler response to the throttle control.

- OFF-ROAD: provides the lowest level of traction control intervention, ABS active only on the front wheel with dedicated calibration (and can be deactivated), along with a softer response of the throttle control, coupled by a greater engine brake.

To complete the electronic package of the V 85 TT there is a TFT display that provides all the useful information to the driver, also provides the ability to always be connected to your smartphone.

A very rich catalog of options will allow owners of the new Moto Guzzi to adapt and customize the bike in relation to their tastes. Here's what you can mount on the V85 TT:

COUPLE LATERAL CASES: made in aluminum with a thickness of 1.5mm, they have a capacity of 33 liters (left) and 39 liters (right) and are powder coated. They are secured to the vehicle by a lock with a special security key and can be removed within a few seconds. They are supplied with additional lock blocks so that only one key can be used for the 41 liter trunk. The opening at the top makes it easier to load. They are supplied complete with stainless steel supports. The internal bags and the thermoformed bathtub are available as an accessory.

[ohiorider]

Bit more info and hyperbole.

https://www.motociclismo.it/moto-guzzi-v85-tt-2019-tutti-dettagli-tecnici-71226#top-carousel

You Aussies are amazing!  When did you learn to read and speak italian? 

Bob

[Trialsman]

More translation of the article:

- 41 LITER ALUMINUM BAULE: made of 1.5mm thick aluminum, powder coated. It is secured to the vehicle by a lock with a special security key and can be removed in a few seconds. And complete with stainless steel fixing plate.
- INCREASED WINNESS (windscreen)
- CENTRAL STAND: made of steel.
- BASE EXTENDED STAND: made of anodised aluminum.
OHLINS SHOCK ABSORBERS: adjustable in hydraulics in compression, extension and spring preload.
SCARICO MOTO GUZZI by ARROW: approved in titanium with heat protection cover, support strap and carbon pad. Reduces weight.
- CARDAN PROTECTION: made with thick steel tubes, it offers specific protection to the engine and to the rider's legs.
- TUBULAR PARAMOTER BAR: made of thick steel tubes, it offers specific protection to the engine and to the rider's legs.
- COMFORT SEAT: available in three different heights.
- CLUTCH AND BRAKE LEVER: made from solid, they can be adjusted to four positions.
- LED SUPPLEMENTARY SPOTLIGHTS: aluminum body.
- RIPJECTABLE BRACKETS.(folding mirror brackets)
- PARASPRUZZI.(mud flaps)
- PNEUMATIC SPORT ADVENTURE: Michelin Anakee Adventure, standard on special versions.
- BRIDGE HIGH GRIP PEDAL: laser cut powder coated.
- MOTO GUZZI MIA: allows you to connect your Smartphone to the bike.
- ELECTRONIC ANTIFURTH:(electronic anti-theft)
- FARO PROTECTION: impact-resistant and scratch-resistant polycarbonate sheet.
- THE ATTACHMENT BAG: made of leather, it is fixed to the luggage rack by screws.
- TANK PROTECTION: in 3D adhesive material.

[Trialsman]

Sorry for this bit.  It says no good on tubeless.  Weight is not bad and saddle is good.

with inner tube 110 / 80- R19 ".
with inner tube 150 / 70- R17 ".
dry weight = 457 lbs.
Wet weight with 90% fuel = 503 lbs.
Saddle Height = 32.6”
Generator = 430 wts

[bmp72]

What is a PARASPRUZZI ? 

[pete roper]

Buggered if I know but I love 'Antifurto'. Obviously Anti Theft but it just sounds so much better! 

Pete