V85 TT Merged Threadfest

[averb]

I must apologise for undue criticism of others' choice in bikes.  All views represented above & below are my own only.  I haven't actually ridden BMW's latest 850 Adventure.  The motor is similar to the model it supersedes, which was I believe-Rotax derived.  The variant of this motor that I own is 900cc & contained within an (ex BMW) Husqvarna.  In comparison to a Nuda, the older F800's  motor is doughier, less responsive & much less powerful.  Maybe the newer F850 motor will be better.  But still I suspect ailing from an endemic charisma bypass.

I'm sure it's great in the dirt.  It's also big, heavy, ridiculously expensive, complicated in terms of multitudes of sophisticated interrelated electronic systems, & like the Nuda (& virtually all other motorcycles) chain driven.  As such it's unsuitable.

As far as I can see this isn't the case - the F850 has a claimed wet weight of 229Kg - the same as the V85, the cost  starts at AUD$18k plus onroad for the base model. The reality is that as far as comparisons go the V85 should be compared with the more road oriented F750, claimed wet weight 224kg, starting cost AUD$13.5k plus onroad.

The V85 also has a serious array of sophisticated electronics with riding modes, ABS, traction control and cruise control hardly the stuff you're going to fix on the side of the gunbarrel.

I have no issue with people preferring the V85 over other bikes - I quite like the look of it myself, but i think you should keep the arguments based on reality

Steve

References - https://adbmag.com.au/editorial/bmw-f-850-gs-pricing-announced/
https://www.bikesales.com.au/editorial/details/bmw-f-750-850-gs-launch-review-116056/

[Knuckle Dragger]

As far as I can see this isn't the case - the F850 has a claimed wet weight of 229Kg - the same as the V85, the cost  starts at AUD$18k plus onroad for the base model. The reality is that as far as comparisons go the V85 should be compared with the more road oriented F750, claimed wet weight 224kg, starting cost AUD$13.5k plus onroad.

The V85 also has a serious array of sophisticated electronics with riding modes, ABS, traction control and cruise control hardly the stuff you're going to fix on the side of the gunbarrel.

I have no issue with people preferring the V85 over other bikes - I quite like the look of it myself, but i think you should keep the arguments based on reality

Steve

References - https://adbmag.com.au/editorial/bmw-f-850-gs-pricing-announced/
https://www.bikesales.com.au/editorial/details/bmw-f-750-850-gs-launch-review-116056/

Thanks for that.  I wasn't aware the Chinese BMWs had a drive shaft.  I'll have to look into that one.  At <$14K on the road that's an absolute bargain.  Presumably that's equipped with centre stand, bags, racks & all the requisite touring paraphernalia?  I'd assumed that only the lard-arsed boxers were shaft drive!



PS. Are you sure that the bike you've mentioned is really the one you're talking about?

I just checked out a "BMW F750 GS" on BMW.com.  It's not as you described.  Not by a long shot.  The tank is tiny (15L) the seat is low, the setup seems fairly Macdam-road oriented (i.e. unsuitable for the rough), it's been hit badly with an ugly stick, and doesn't seem to have long-range tour panniers available, meaning if you fit some & break the subframe no warranty applies!

It doesn't even have a cardan drive: it's a bloody chain!  No thanks, for that style of bike I think I'd be better off with a (non-R series) KTM 790 Adventure.  These Teutons, the KTM & the 750/850 BMWs: one seems more road-oriented & one dirt, one more suited to taller riders (men?) & one for shorter (women?) riders, just like KTM's 790 Adventure/R pairing.

As it stands, both of these brands' pairings seem pretty small & I suspect lightly built for extended tough going.  None of the have cardan drive, all are liquid cooled, & lack the simplicity of the Guzzi. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not prepared to risk $20-22K on something that's so dubiously suited to my needs.  The F800 I tested a couple of years ago was I seem to recall a fairly insipid, uninspiring ride.  No Nuda, that's for sure, despite having the same motor & manufacturer.

The Guzzi doesn't have anywhere near the kind of electronics of the Teutons:  keyless ignition, cornering stability control, electronic suspension, tyre pressure monitoring.  Far from saying the new Guzzis have nothing, all I stated was than in certain circumstances (especially breakdowns) then less is more.

Oh, & the price?  Well over $20K according to BMW's local website.  Huh?  Where in hell did that OTR $14K price come from?  That's the sort of price that well-used Stelvio NTX IIIs are selling for!  I'd imagine that the New KTM pair will be even more.  The 850 Adventure is over $27K configured as a tourer!  Bugger that for a joke!

But at the end of the day I already have 2 BMWs, so I don't really need another.  My one & only Piaggio has to go, so there's soon to be room for another.

[arveno]

That’ll be good for the future of the marque..

Ah ah ah ah !!!
Thank you for the laughs

[twowheeladdict]

The V85 also has a serious array of sophisticated electronics with riding modes, ABS, traction control and cruise control hardly the stuff you're going to fix on the side of the gunbarrel.

But none of that will require fixing on the side of the road.  If any of those breaks a light will come on and you just keep on riding until you decide to diagnose and fix.

[Dogwalker]

Original rackless plastic bags. Big enough for an integral helmet.
https://youtu.be/dO9S-MWBdc4?t=1155

[rdbandkab]

The question was asked in the post I replied to, 'What's not to like?'. I answered the question. Sorry if just because I refuse to pour praise on a new model from Guzzi it makes me some sort of heretic. I hadn't realised that criticism wasn't allowed. I thought I'd of had to join 'The Clan' for that!

I'm all for criticism when it points out issues or shortcomings.  That would weed out substandard products and save us all some time buying a bike and fixing all the issues not resolved before shipment.   I've not seen nor ridden the V85, so I'm unable to appraise its shortcomings or shining points. 
I guess I do have thin skin, as sometimes I get "worked up" reading disparaging posts that offer up differing opinions than mine.   I don't expect you to stop criticizing or offering up opinion, nor would I want you to.   I'll just try not get so "worked up" when getting on the V85 thread to hear the good things that this particular bike may bring to the Guzzi fold.   I need to remember that there will be negative views of the bike.   I haven't ridden it, so I can neither agree or disagree.
Sorry Pete,   Don't go joining any "clan"? on my account.  Heretic?  I think most Guzzi owners own up to going against the grain with their bike choice. 
I'll get me coat.

richy

[blackcat]

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/moto-guzzi/v85-tt/2019/?fbclid=IwAR01KaBTWTXeFqkYfkFJRyKfyzBGvfgoYDNXmtxS1TwX8mihSS33BRoIRQ4

[Chuck in Indiana]

79.1bhp

See. Not 80.. 

[pete roper]

Why bother?

[nick949]

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/moto-guzzi/v85-tt/2019/?fbclid=IwAR01KaBTWTXeFqkYfkFJRyKfyzBGvfgoYDNXmtxS1TwX8mihSS33BRoIRQ4

Oh God. No speed shifter. What'll we do?

Nick

[s1120]

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/moto-guzzi/v85-tt/2019/?fbclid=IwAR01KaBTWTXeFqkYfkFJRyKfyzBGvfgoYDNXmtxS1TwX8mihSS33BRoIRQ4

Oh God. No speed shifter. What'll we do?

Nick

WTH is a quickshifter and auto-blipper, and why would I even want one??  Lots of "could" and "might" in that review... doesnt sound like he rode it for more then a few miles.. 

[blu guzz]

that fuel mileage number "57..." looked very impressive.  a quick shifter is another thing to break.  i presume this was a new bike, so the vibration and bulky shifting between 3-4 would likely smooth out in 5,000 miles or so.  i like the sound of it but it sounds like they will get more colour options across the pond.

[Tusayan]

I'm still anticipating seeing a dyno test result, full throttle power over a range of rpm.  The 79.1 HP number is the first I've seen that isn't an even 80 HP but given that this is a riding impression from flying to Sardinia and riding a press bike, the realist in me says the number came from Piaggio.  If it is true RWHP that would be beyond my expectations and combined with the the reports of good tractability, the potential small block power issue is certainly gone.

This continues to look like a fantastic bike to me: neither over engineered or under developed, and not a uninspired copy-cat Guzzi version of some other bike.

[pmillar]

that fuel mileage number "57..." looked very impressive...

I'm guessing that mileage figure needs to be adjusted from imperial to U.S. gallons. If so, that takes it down to 47.5 MPG if I did it correctly, still not too shabby. 

[twowheeladdict]

I'm guessing that mileage figure needs to be adjusted from imperial to U.S. gallons. If so, that takes it down to 47.5 MPG if I did it correctly, still not too shabby.

and Press guys report much lower MPG than I ever get. 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I'm still anticipating seeing a dyno test result, full throttle power over a range of rpm.  The 79.1 HP number is the first I've seen that isn't an even 80 HP but given that this is a riding impression from flying to Sardinia and riding a press bike, the realist in me says the number came from Piaggio.  If it is true RWHP that would be beyond my expectations and combined with the the reports of good tractability, the potential small block power issue is certainly gone.

This continues to look like a fantastic bike to me: neither over engineered or under developed, and not a uninspired copy-cat Guzzi version of some other bike.

I notice that all numbers quoted in this particular short ride review are in medieval measures.  As such I suspect that they're converted from Piaggio's quoted SI units.  Realistically, a 300km+/- brief road test is only going to provide an impression of the actual reality.  A relatively new test bike, an unfamiliar rider, either inexperienced in this format of (low revving longitudinal twin) bike or in Sardinia's dodgy road network is unlikely to form reliable opinions in a mere handful of hours' use.  If I could get a riding range of 450km/tank from a midsize tourer then I'd be as happy as a pig in poo.  So I hope that at least that particular spec is realistic.

As for the actual power output, who knows?  The majority of riders who've reported to date are pretty happy with its power & torque characteristics, some describing a remarkably flexible little motor with useful drive down to 2K, good power from 4K, & smooth & (reasonably) rapid acceleration up to the 8K limiter.  A couple described it as, if not actually gutless, then perhaps stating that more neddies on tap could/would/should be advantageous.  My old R100CS delivers about 70 ponies @ the crank. It's a similar bike in many ways to the Guzzi:  size, weight, slow/er revving, torquey @ a lower but wide rev band, spokes, 19"/18" wheels etc.  It's always been quite 'adequate' in performance (it was the quickest airhead ever made apart from the MKM Krauser 8-valve customs). 

His 'concern' about the lack of clutchless shift aids makes me think that this fellow in particular doesn't quite 'get' the Guzzi ethos.  Whatever that is, it doesn't realistically incorporate racebike downshifters.  Anybody with sufficient experience & practise can perform perfectly adequate clutchless upshifts with just about any sequential (or even conventional for that matter) gearbox.  I had an old 5 cyl. Audi that had an inordinate appetite for clutch cables.  I'd have to occasionally drive it completely clutchless for a week or 2 at a time between repairs.  Its not that hard:  just a modicum of finesse & coordination is all that's required.  I also had a Ducati clutch cable go when on tour too.  Not a huge drama:  glide to a halt in neutral, and start it in gear.  Even if the bike has a in-gear start lockout, you can still 'wheelie start' by dropping it into gear on a slippery surface.

OK.  As somebody else stated, nobody's been overtly, nor even really obliquely, critical of the bike.  That is def. a worry.  Is it an artefact of Piaggio's catering largesse?  Are the reviewers, having been satiated by a generous succession of well-stocked minibars, , gourmet pasta & seafood, VSOP Cognac, single malt, vintage reds, a few spoons of Bolivian marching powder,  literally & metaphorically drained from a liberal scattering of expensive escorts &/or rent-boys in accordance with the reviewers' particular pecadilloes & proclivities, actually in a position to state that the Emperor has no clothes?  Or are they fatally compromised?  Only time will tell.

Sardinia is one of the world's less well publicised billionaires' playgrounds.  In places property prices exceed Euro 300,000 per square meter!  It's the province of surgically enhanced trophy wives, massive motor yachts, private jet airstrips & heliports, where the tycoons of global industry, media moguls, drug barons, organised crime bosses and political corruptees rub shoulders socially and do their dirty deals with relative impunity in security-enclaved anonymity.  This is Italy.  Join the dots.

I jest, of course.  Piaggio wouldn't expect their quid pro quo, would they?  Of course not!  I'm sure that each & every 'review' is as objective, honest and accurate as ever.....  This bike must be damn near perfect! 

[Huzo]

If it’s half as good as your turn of phrase, I’ll be more than satisfied..!
I guess the old adage must be correct after all.
The Poms invented the English language, the Aussies perfected it..!

[Vagrant]

at 5000 units or less a year I'm surprised they were not housed in pup tents and fed Mcdoubles.

[Tusayan]

Sardinia is one of the world's less well publicised billionaires' playgrounds.  In places property prices exceed Euro 300,000 per square meter!  It's the province of surgically enhanced trophy wives, massive motor yachts, private jet airstrips & heliports, where the tycoons of global industry, media moguls, drug barons, organised crime bosses and political corruptees rub shoulders socially and do their dirty deals with relative impunity in security-enclaved anonymity. 

It's not like that at all, in general.  Sardina is mostly abandoned, the lowest population density area in Europe, but with a lot of good roads and geography much like California.  It's like Baja, but with lots of good curvy roads.     A small area of the island closest to Rome is a less extreme version of what you describe but in the rest and where the riding is good, you put up with slightly sub-par accommodations (although with good local food) and few services to enjoy great roads.  I rode there last year, on the same roads as this press intro.  A lot of towns are boarded up, vacant. 

Italian motorcyclists love Sardinia because it has great roads, and because it's Italian, but for me the more developed infrastructure in Corsica and the higher terrain makes it better (I've ridden in Corsica three times).

At 5000 units or less a year I'm surprised they were not housed in pup tents and fed Mcdoubles.

I can't recall Piaggio putting on well orchestrated PR campaign for a new model before, and this one does seem to have been pretty well done.  I think they've figured they're onto a winner, at least in Guzzi terms...  Meaning in my mind 4 days of Enfield production (8000 bikes) over the next year 

[Knuckle Dragger]

It's called irony.  I would've thought it glaringly, if not ludicrously obvious.

Porto Cervo, on Sardinia's Costa Smeralda is indeed a billionaire's playground.  Originally developed by Prince Karim Aga Khan IV and a clutch of other Uber-wealthy cronies the village ostensibly has a mere 421 inhabitants, swelled by an influx of the globe's richest during the high season.  Naturally, when you're the absolute dictator of some fabulously resource-rich principality, you don't like your business, private or professional, becoming common knowledge.  Especially when considering the types of business actually being discussed:  bribery, extortion, hostile takeovers, assassinations, coups d'etat, invasions etc.  Who actually owns what & where?  Nobody's talking, obviously. 

Occasionally, lesser luminaries visit.  The likes of Denzel Washington, Lenny Kravitz, Bruce Willis come to rub shoulders with the Berlusconis & other assorted oligarchs, dictators, tyrants & slavers.  It's apparently a nice discrete bolt-hole & escape from the plebian mere millionaires crowding Monaco and the Riviera during high summer.  Just the place to slip away to "the shack" in the Learjet for a 'quickie' August Bank Holiday weekend with a curvaceous starlet when the wife is away visiting her mother....

Euro 300K/m squared property prices aren't plucked from the ether.  The figure was quoted by Engel & Volkers, used-house salesmen & brokers to modern royalty.  The dudes you have on quick-dial if you're in the market for the odd chateau, castle or tropical island.  Romazzino Bay is easily the most exclusive part of the 20 Km of coast comprising the not-so-dodgy end of the 'Smeralda.

This tiny, discrete address does actually host the world's 4th, 6th & 7th most expensive Hotels (2012 figures).  A suite in no.7 (Hotel Cala DeVolpe) costs up to about US$32,736/night.

Did Gruppo Piaggio put up the world's motorcycling press in this type of accommodation?  What do you think?  With all due respect, get a grip.

By the way, bugger the Learjet!  Way too common.  What about a Piaggio Aerospace Avanti Evo?  Makes a 'Guzzi look kinda crude, yet there's an uncanny familial resemblance. Hint.......  It's so ugly it's beautiful.

http://www.avantievo.piaggioaerospace.it

[Tusayan]

Piaggio aerospace is bankrupt, but it's not relevant to the motorcycle company.

I'm sure the press had a good time at Piaggios expense.  I liked Alghero and Stintino, not expensive and a nice places.  Sardinia's a good place for press intro in March. 

You could make your point in about 1/10 the number of words.

[Knuckle Dragger]

Humble apologies for wasting so much of your valuable time.  Just ignore my posts in future.

[Huzo]

You could make your point in about 1/10 the number of words.

Yeah but where’s the fun in that ?

[bpreynolds]

I'm guessing that mileage figure needs to be adjusted from imperial to U.S. gallons. If so, that takes it down to 47.5 MPG if I did it correctly, still not too shabby.

Especially good in the ADV genre of bikes which leans towards the big, the heavy, the powerful.  I mean yes, there are bikes that make twice as much power as this and get 36-40mpg but I doubt folks shopping for a Multistrada will be looking at the Guzzi. 

[twowheeladdict]

Hell, I'm looking at a Verys 300X to satisfy my want for something that I won't mind going down the gravel roads with their stream crossings in my neck of the woods.  It is capable of interstate speeds and light trail work.  Can be had for less than $5000. 

What the V85 has over the 300X is looks, shaft drive, and air cooled.  Decisions, Decisions.

[Murray]

  If it is true RWHP that would be beyond my expectations and combined with the the reports of good tractability, the potential small block power issue is certainly gone.

It's most likely a flywheel number.

[usedtobefast]

Hell, I'm looking at a Verys 300X to satisfy my want for something that I won't mind going down the gravel roads with their stream crossings in my neck of the woods.  It is capable of interstate speeds and light trail work.  Can be had for less than $5000. 

What the V85 has over the 300X is looks, shaft drive, and air cooled.  Decisions, Decisions.

I've been waiting for the X to get the 400 engine from the Ninja 400.  When that happens I might have to buy one. 

[TimmyTheHog]

I've been waiting for the X to get the 400 engine from the Ninja 400.  When that happens I might have to buy one.

When that happen, that thing will murder everyone else sub 400CC class...

STILL in the cheap"er" insurance yet a better power band/torque to the whole lot of them current light weight adv bikes...

anything above are just overly grossly fat :P...yet I am a hypocrite wanting a V85 lol...

[twowheeladdict]

I've been waiting for the X to get the 400 engine from the Ninja 400.  When that happens I might have to buy one.

That is what is keeping me from jumping now.  A 30 percent increase in torque with the price point probably only increasing 10% if the Z400 is any indication is something worth waiting on unless a clean used 300X for $3000 crosses my path before then. 

I have also thought about getting another KLX250S and going for the 350cc kit. 

[grame99]

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/moto-guzzi/moto-guzzi-v85tt-2019-review