That's not a cam chain tensioner in there.

[Orange Guzzi]

Pulled the timing chest cover to inspect the timing chain tensioner. There were some parts in there, but nothing to do with adding tension, stop flapping or control timing. 

The spring was weak, the pad had 1/8 deep grooves and the cam sprocket could be rotated while the crank remained in place.  Valtek is on it's way. 

My Friend and I were discussing how much better a Guzzi motor would have been if the Japanese built it. 

[normzone]

Or if the Italians had hosted Deming after Detroit turned him down, instead of Japan.

[kfz]

Pulled the timing chest cover to inspect the timing chain tensioner. There were some parts in there, but nothing to do with adding tension, stop flapping or control timing. 

The spring was weak, the pad had 1/8 deep grooves and the cam sprocket could be rotated while the crank remained in place.  Valtek is on it's way. 

My Friend and I were discussing how much better a Guzzi motor would have been if the Japanese built it.

They did.  They took it to commitee, prodded, pulled it, water cooled it, removed all the fun, and finally horrific styling and called it a CX500.  MAybe you should fit a honda Camchain tensioner?  :-)

Kev

[voncrump]

They did.  They took it to commitee, prodded, pulled it, water cooled it, removed all the fun, and finally horrific styling and called it a CX500.  MAybe you should fit a honda Camchain tensioner?  :-)

Kev

w
That is a bit of an irony because the timing chain tensioner was one of the few problems the CX 500 had. It was fixed quickly. You would not want an early CX tensioner, I was a mechanic in a Honda dealership in the late 70s - early 80s and Honda cam chain tensioners could be problematic. In fact Honda fiddled with the CX tensioners until sorting the problem in 1981 with the Turbo.
Cheers, voncrump

[voncrump]

I have to also add that to replace a CX500 tensioner you have to take the motor out.
Cheers, voncrump.

[Orange Guzzi]

I have to also add that to replace a CX500 tensioner you have to take the motor out.
Cheers, voncrump.

The motor is out. And in many pieces around the garage.  Cam nut is staring at me and waiting to be attacked. Harbor Freight, cut off wheel  to cut socket end off and weld a handle on a socket. 

[bigbikerrick]

I wonder why Guzzi got away from gears and went to the chain? My 73 eldo has gears and has been problem free. One would think you would get more accurate valve timing with gears as well. Is it cost? It cant be that much more $$.
Rick

[Tom H]

You might want to give this a read about the tensioner. The Valtec would not fit on my '04, had to go with stock.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=88551.0

Tom

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I wonder why Guzzi got away from gears and went to the chain? My 73 eldo has gears and has been problem free. One would think you would get more accurate valve timing with gears as well. Is it cost? It cant be that much more $$.
Rick

One word/name: DeTomaso. He was a world class "penny pincher" and you can see the effect on Guzzis almost immediately after he bought the company.

[webmost]

They did.  They took it to commitee, prodded, pulled it, water cooled it, removed all the fun, and finally horrific styling and called it a CX500.  MAybe you should fit a honda Camchain tensioner?  :-)

Kev

Had one. No power; but you could not kill that engine with a sledge hammer.

[Bill Owens]

I will second the comment about "04 hydro motor Taltek no fit.Make that Valteck or however you spell it.

[Orange Guzzi]

I wonder why Guzzi got away from gears and went to the chain? My 73 eldo has gears and has been problem free. One would think you would get more accurate valve timing with gears as well. Is it cost? It cant be that much more $$.
Rick

May go with gears.  The Cam Gear has to be machined to allow for the "phonic wheel".  The oem Cam Gear has the same Mfg. part number stamped on it, but the flange on the back is missing to allow for clearance of the phonic wheel.  Take longer o set up in the lathe than to machine. 

[Old Jock]

For me if going to gears there is only one option Joe Caruso Steel Gears & they are pretty spendy for the penny pinching lot on here

I would not let a set of alloy gears anywhere near my Guzzis, but the choice is yours

If you want to contact Joe & don't have his E-Mail ping me I just don't like giving out mail addresses on a public forum

John

[Tom H]

Bill,

I thought it may have just been "my" '04 that they did not machine correctly. Now I know I'm not alone and it must have been how they designed that model.

Tom

[wymple]

Hard to complain about the stock tensioner IMO. Heck, they last 100k miles.

[guzzisteve]

Pulled the timing chest cover to inspect the timing chain tensioner. There were some parts in there, but nothing to do with adding tension, stop flapping or control timing. 

The spring was weak, the pad had 1/8 deep grooves and the cam sprocket could be rotated while the crank remained in place.  Valtek is on it's way. 

My Friend and I were discussing how much better a Guzzi motor would have been if the Japanese built it. 

I would be looking at WHO maintained it & installed the cam fixes. There are plenty w/good tensioners and cams.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

May go with gears.  The Cam Gear has to be machined to allow for the "phonic wheel".  The oem Cam Gear has the same Mfg. part number stamped on it, but the flange on the back is missing to allow for clearance of the phonic wheel.  Take longer o set up in the lathe than to machine.

One can not simple change from chain back to the original Guzzi (Eldo and earlier) gears since Guzzi repositioned the oil pump slightly when they went to chain. I have my doubts about any aftermarket gears other than those from Joe Caruso.

[Bill Owens]

Tom,
Yes I saw your post a while back and finally decided I would take a peek at my oil pump and figured I would find out at the same time if the Valteck tensioner would fit as I had one on hand. The stock one has a fairly wimpy spring and seams to wear faster than you would like. Anyway I had to button things up so I just replaced the chain, but If I remember correctly it appeared to me that If you were to cut the shaft off from the stock tensioner and weld the shaft from a Valteck to the stock mounting plate it looked like it will work. I'm not a welder but my son in law  is . Anybody got a used stock tensioner they need to through out.

[Mr Revhead]

So this is on your 04 bike? If so how may Ks has it done?

I've been wondering about my 03... What were the symptoms that prompted you to open it up?

[Orange Guzzi]

So this is on your 04 bike? If so how may Ks has it done?

I've been wondering about my 03... What were the symptoms that prompted you to open it up?

I am working on an 03 hydro motor.  I opened mine up because the engine is on the bench.  I suspected the chain was flopping around because of backfiring.  The timing the tensioner has  no tension, none.  The cam gear would move both directions a degree or two moving the tensioner back and forth while the crank gear stayed in the same location.  I layed the crankcase on the left side and the weight of the long side of the chain on the tensioner was enough to make it move. 

Looking into the engine case, there is obviously a shoulder that was referred too earlier regarding the fitment of the Valtek piece. 

The more I dig into this motor, I see MG was about big and beefy over precision fitment.  Lots of slop in the fitment of parts. 

[Bill Owens]

Mr. Rev,
  I had no symptoms . The reason was, for one my experience with guzzis of the past is that there tensioners were not that great so I was interested in replacing it with something better.It has been suggested to check your oil pump for debris if you have had the recall stuff done. So basically I just wasted my time except maybe the chain replacement. Oh and I had 35000 miles on it. It is my understanding that the recall stuff on mine had been done at the factory, but who knows.

[Orange Guzzi]

You might want to give this a read about the tensioner. The Valtec would not fit on my '04, had to go with stock.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=88551.0

Tom

The machined boss in you engine is missing in my 2003  engine.  It was not cast or machine out.  What year is the engine in your picture?

I found why a set of gears will not fit a newer engine with the timing pick up on the cam (phonic wheel).  The crank sprocke and oil pump sprocket are either thicker/longer by the thickness of the "phonic" wheel or the cam sprocket has had the shoulder machined thinner.  It is hard to tell from the picture I found at Gutsibits.  Either the cam gear would have to have the flange machined thinner or the crank and oil pump gears shimmed.  The timing gears do appear to have the pin hole in the correct place for timing.  My guess is the timing gear shoulder is thinner.  Meaning a set of gears would work if the cam gear was faced off in a lathe on the back side by the thickness of the phonic wheel.

Also, I found that Harbor Freight has a set of "shower faucet" socket set for $10 that work great on the hex nuts on the transmission output shaft nut and the crank sprocket nut.  I dropped the shower faucet socket on and used another socket on the opposite end to break the nuts loose.  The sockets are double ended with a different hex on each end.  10 sizes on five sockets.  Not a precision fit, but they held up to the electric impact wrench. 

I used an old disassembled universal joint/cardan joint on the spine shaft with a rod thru the cup bearing holes to hold the shaft while removing the output shaft nut.  I used the same thing on the rear gear box spline while  removing and tightening the input shaft retainer nut. 
 
I used an old clutch friction disc with splines on the transmission input shaft.  I slid the disc over the splined gear and clamped the vise grips on to the disc to hold it. 

I made a wrench for the bearing retainer nut out of 5/16 flat bar steel and two hardened roll pins located on the center line of the nut slots.
 

Guzzi Cheap or what?

[rodekyll]

I had the cam gear shaved to accommodate the phonic wheel.  5mm, iirc.  Made more sense than shimming the other two gears.

When the 1100 went from the rear breather to the timing cover-located breather they made a few changes to the engine casting.  I was only paying attention to what affected my project, which was the flywheel-end mods to the case.  They included losing the port on the bottom that the breather pipe bolted to and losing the hole in the top rear of the bell housing that the breather pipes exited through.  This missing boss may be part of that evolution.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Guzzi Cheap or what?

I prefer the term Frugal..and.. using what you got.  I *always* rummage around in my "lifetime supply area" before buying something. 

[Tom H]

OG, The bike is a '04 YM and is from the factory as far as I know. The engine is I think an '02 from the Vin or ?? something I looked up IIRR. If needed I can try look it up to confirm this.

I thought, like the link mentions, that the "boss" was a mess up. But as Bill states, my engine is not alone.

I had the Valtec installed and ready to tighten down, until I noticed a problem.

Not all Hydro's have this issue. I only mentioned it in case you had an issue installing the Valtec. I really wanted to have the better tensioner!

Tom

[Mr Revhead]

Come on guys, it's not "cheap" it's cost effective. Or value for money.
Big difference! 

[Orange Guzzi]

OG, The bike is a '04 YM and is from the factory as far as I know. The engine is I think an '02 from the Vin or ?? something I looked up IIRR. If needed I can try look it up to confirm this.

I thought, like the link mentions, that the "boss" was a mess up. But as Bill states, my engine is not alone.

I had the Valtec installed and ready to tighten down, until I noticed a problem.

Not all Hydro's have this issue. I only mentioned it in case you had an issue installing the Valtec. I really wanted to have the better tensioner!

Tom

Package up the Valtec and send it to me.  I will buy it if you are not going use it.  I was not sure if I was going with the gears on not.  Decided to go with the Valtec. 

[Tom H]

I returned it to where I bought it since it would not work for me.

Tom

[Orange Guzzi]

I installed the Valtek tensioner in the 2003 hydro motor.  Went in with out any issues.  I used needle nose vise grips to hold the tensioner off to the left side while I installed the gears.  No bosses or extra aluminum in the crankcase.  Amazing how much more pressure it exerts than the stock one some one had put in wrong.  They had the spring preload 180 degree's out.  Cam recall re assembly procedure failure most likely.  I am sure the factory would not do this. 

Engine and transmission are reassembled and ready to go back into the frame today.   

[guzzisteve]

I would be looking at WHO maintained it & installed the cam fixes. There are plenty w/good tensioners and cams.

Just like I thought all along, most likely an overhead cam guy that had no understanding of pushrods.