Euro 4 CARC's?

[jlburgess]

It seems that the rumor of the demise of CARC bikes like the Griso and Stelvio may have been greatly exaggerated.  I heard that a Euro 4 compliant Griso and Stelvio are in the works from some people in the know.  Not naming names so don't ask! 

This means ABS folks!    Maybe some other new bits too???   

[ITSec]

Well, the Stelvio has had ABS for half of forever (as has the Norge), and the only reasons it wasn't on the Griso were where to locate the ABS servo and cost. I don't think ABS was ever the problem.

The real issue is the emission rating of the engine, and since that isn't going away I'm sure they've been working on something. The real question is what, how soon, and in what form it would be released. Should the siren song of retro seduce the powers that be, that might be never. On the other hand, a Vulcan mind-meld between some engine designers at Guzzi and at Aprilia could produce something workable, given money and a little time. We'll see - and wait in hope!

[Kev m]

Doesn't make sense.

Or maybe it does if part of what you heard was mistaken.

I mean it seems like even Piaggio has talked vaguely about something being in the works in the mid-range. But rumors of that included a new or revised powertrain no?

I thought it was something about maybe a hybrid-cooled setup (though truthfully I'm having a problem remembering whether that's the actual rumor or that was hopeful thinking, but I think it was the former).

So maybe both rumors are true, there's a scheduled return of or evolution of the platform in development.

[Tusayan]

a Vulcan mind-meld between some engine designers at Guzzi and at Aprilia could produce something workable, given money and a little time. We'll see - and wait in hope!

Moto Guzzi and Aprilia don't operate as separate companies, powertrain developments are coordinated by Piaggio and mostly done by the same people.  For example a guy I know works at Piaggio in Pontedera and (maybe because in a previous life he ran a Guzzi workshop in that area) he's usually assigned to Guzzi powertrain development, but also in the past worked on the Aprilia Shiver twin. If you define Moto Guzzi in the traditional sense, as a company in Mandello del Lario, they have no engineering capability - in 2017 it's a production plant that preserves the 'authenticity' of the brand as a Piaggio marketing asset.

[Bonaventure]

Don't forget traction ctrl, Norge and Stelvio both have that too.

Don't think the market segment is there anymore for continuation of the CARC bikes, besides the difficulty of emissions compliance for Euro 4 with the current 1200 (1151) motor.  The Griso maybe ... but there are so many competing bikes in the segment that offer more of the electronic assist systems that segment buyers seem to demand nowadays ... semi-active electronic suspension, cornering modulated ABS <Bosch system>, factory cruise control <enabled by ride-by-wire electronic throttle>, LED lighting, Bluetooth connectivity built-in, and more.  Moto Guzzi, Piaggio, or whoever makes the decisions likely are not going to attempt to integrate any of that into the current (CARC) layout. 

Will they be able to produce a new generation version of the Norge, Griso, and Stelvio equipped with all or select elements of the above electronic gizmo list, price it competitively enough to sell against Ducati, BMW, Triumph, Kawasaki, Yamaha, <maybe Honda> with a new gen first yr engine compliant w/ Euro 4 and packing enough performance to compete with the segment leaders?   I guess we will see. 

Then there is the declining market demographic that buys motorcycles in this class.  Is it worth the investment in development to bring such Euro 4 bikes to market when the number of buyers who prefer that class of bike is on the decline?  V7's and V9's are the hot sellers lately aren't they?  In part because the younger demographic that is emerging in masse tends to prefer that class of machine, IF they ride and there is some debate about whether or not the younger generation now coming into economic significance even likes motorcycling. 

[Tusayan]

there are so many competing bikes in the segment that offer more of the electronic assist systems that segment buyers seem to demand nowadays ... semi-active electronic suspension, cornering modulated ABS <Bosch system>, factory cruise control <enabled by ride-by-wire electronic throttle>, LED lighting, Bluetooth connectivity built-in, and more.  Moto Guzzi, Piaggio, or whoever makes the decisions likely are not going to attempt to integrate any of that into the current (CARC) layout. 

I'd prefer a bike that doesn't have any of that stuff.

"They make easy cars, I make difficult bicycles" 
Fabio Taglioni (Ducati Chief Engineer) speaking about the Japanese manufacturers in contrast to Ducati in about 1987

[Huzo]

Traction ctrl on the Norge ?

[kingoffleece]

Not on my 2014.  I was wondering the same thing.

[Nortman54]

That is exactly why I bought a Norge, because it doesn't have all that stuff.  Obviously I have entered geezerhood.
Chuck

[pete roper]

Stelvio has TC. It's very crude though compared to the system on the 7SM bikes. Unless you turn it off you can't spin a Cali 14 out.

Pete

[AH Fan]

That is exactly why I bought a Norge, because it doesn't have all that stuff.  Obviously I have entered geezerhood.
Chuck

I'm with you on that Brother.
Keep em real please.

Ciao

[pete roper]

That is exactly why I bought a Norge, because it doesn't have all that stuff.  Obviously I have entered geezerhood.
Chuck

Early motorbikes didn't have brakes because we don't need *All that stuff*....

Just sayin'

[jdgretz]

The Piaggio reps at the Long Beach International Motorcycle Show (yes, there was an official Piaggio presence) said the V85 shown recently is a production ready vehicle and figure that this time next year it may grace the shores of North America.  The V85 will most likely be the Stelvio replacement.

Also they said that platform could/may be the jumping off point for bikes between the Cali and the V7 and V9 models.

Didn't sound like any hope for a new Norge or big block Stelvio.

But what do I know.

jdg

[Huzo]

But what do I know.

jdg

You know enough to take your money elsewhere if they don't start building a decent range JD..
ps
(Whisper).... Love the mirrors, bike on Indian Ocean, will fit them immediately upon return...

[Bonaventure]

Traction ctrl on the Norge ?

My bad on that, I generalized based off the Stelvio.  Assumed that since essentially the same platform if they put tc on their ADV bike they'd surely have left the system in place on their purpose built touring machine.   sorry about that ... 

[pete roper]

My bad on that, I generalized based off the Stelvio.  Assumed that since essentially the same platform if they put tc on their ADV bike they'd surely have left the system in place on their purpose built touring machine.   sorry about that ... 

Errr? No. Stelvio and Norge are completely different platforms. Sport 1200, Breva and Norge at least share basically the same frame. Stelvio is unique, as were Griso and Bellagio.

[Bonaventure]

I stand corrected.  Thought the 1200 motor, shaft drive, and brake setup were essentially the same layout. 

[bad Chad]

The Piaggio reps at the Long Beach International Motorcycle Show (yes, there was an official Piaggio presence) said the V85 shown recently is a production ready vehicle and figure that this time next year it may grace the shores of North America.  The V85 will most likely be the Stelvio replacement.

Also they said that platform could/may be the jumping off point for bikes between the Cali and the V7 and V9 models.

Didn't sound like any hope for a new Norge or big block Stelvio.

But what do I know.

jdg

If history is any indicator, you know at least as much if not more!

[waxi]

I am optimistic that CARC bikes will be back someday. Hell, they should make something big for 2021. 100th birthday is right behind the corner.