Author Topic: Bub sump and spacer windage plate for T3  (Read 4093 times)

Offline 93spada

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Re: Bub sump and spacer windage plate for T3
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2017, 07:55:17 AM »
If, at the end of the day, what you want is an external oil filter and even more additional sump oil capacity, the simplest and most sanitary solution might be something like an original Guzzi deep sump plus a Harper's Outsider. The Guzzi deep sumps have been used on Tonti-based and other big-block Guzzis since somewhere in the mid- to late-90s, so you'll eventually find one online or at a parts supplier. The Harper's Outsider is available directly from Harpers or occasionally as a used piece. You could easily sink $3-400 bucks into obtaining these parts, so there's an economic challenge.

Since you probably don't have either of these you're considering arriving at a similar end result by using the parts you have on hand; the Guzzi sump spacer and Bub sump. To my mind, there's not going to be an easy way to achieve this and preserve some form of serviceability and assembly/disassembly ease. Still, typical Guzzi owner frugality and a long winter may yield some interesting results. Press on!

Hi Bob
Yes.  My end goal is to get an external oil filter.
Yes, I could just spend the money. I just did the MG unit on my SPIII.
Yes, I am trying to be Frugal!!
Yes, it is going to be a long winter, it's already started with the salt on the roads and not enough rain yet to was it off. Sooooo....... Ill keep plugging.
Thanks
Paul

Thanks
PJM

Offline 93spada

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Re: Bub sump and spacer windage plate for T3
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2017, 08:07:12 AM »
I think he just called Guzzi owners cheap. Probably not a lot of evidence to the contrary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm so cheap........


When I open my wallet, moths fly out!!!!
When it comes time to pay a tab, I have to pee!!!
I'll drive 50 miles to save $1!!
I took apart a Bosch starter Bendix to save the rebuild charge (PITA but got it working).
And on and on and on.....
Paul

PJM

Offline 93spada

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Re: Bub sump and spacer windage plate for T3
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2017, 08:18:41 AM »
How about countersinking the return fitting? Is there enough meat there to still hold onto a different return fitting (similar to the feed side)?

I've been playing around with another setup using a crude 3D model, let me see if I can get that done and show that. It would take minimal work and use simple materials.

Hi Dave,
There may be enough metal to make it work.
I was thinking about using the spacer also to add air space to the crank box but, if I make all the pipe lines hard lines then bolt the pipe assembly up to the underside of the engine first, then wiggle the feed and return thru the sump and put on nuts, that maybe the easiest.
Thanks
Paul
PJM

Offline 93spada

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Re: Bub sump and spacer windage plate for T3
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2017, 08:31:24 AM »
The stock depth oil filter pan and spacer could be used with a machined take off at the oil filter pad with whatever to run the two lines through the spacer to a remote oil filter.
If you are going to use a scraper and a windage tray (Not a oil surge baffle plate) they would need to work together and if you have gone that far you might as well add a camshaft oil bath and reed valve crank case vent.

Edit...
Using 6 mm studs instead of the stock bolts would probably make it easy to install.

Hi Les,
Good idea. I could machine an adapter to bolt to the outside of the spacer that would make the filter vertical not horizontal.
Like this at Harpers....
http://www.harpermoto.com/harpers-outsider-for-pre-1998-moto-guzzi.html

I don't think I am going to do any crank scrapers. I don't understand what they do or how to install.

Thank you
That maybe the best solution yet.
Want to buy a Bub sump??
Paul
PJM

Offline swooshdave

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Re: Bub sump and spacer windage plate for T3
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2017, 11:12:22 AM »
https://youtu.be/9xqk6Fre7eM

The video gives you more views.





Countersunk holes.



Note that mounting holes don't go all the way through. I'd probably use a silicone gasket glued to the plate to seal it up. The red part would be rigid and the pipes would hold it in place. You'd offer the pan up and hopefully everything lines up when you bolt it up.

I might be able to add the rest of the parts including the pipes later. I use TinkerCAD which is pretty simple and I don't know if I can bend the tubes.

--
2001 V11 Sport
1972 Norton Production Racer Replica
1973 Bultaco Sherpa T
1975 Ducati 860GT

Offline sidecarnutz

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Re: Bub sump and spacer windage plate for T3
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2017, 09:18:21 PM »
I had a BUB sump in the 90's on my Mille' GT. I was under the impression that its main weakness was the use of rubber air hoses jammed onto the barbed air fittings being used as pressurized oil lines. The rubber air hose was never meant for hot pressurized oil and would burst. So you'd lose your engine to low oil pressure and never see the leak since it was internal to the sump.

I solved this on mine by taking the lines to a local hydraulic shop and getting Teflon lined SS oil lines with new fittings made for it at the service e counter. Perfect fit. But it did make it more difficult to install due to lack of flexibility in  the new oil lines compared to using rubber ones. Lucky for me I had small hands. Mine never gave me an issue in the years I kept the bike.
yeah, I might be addicted to brake fluid. But I can stop any time I want.

1990 Cali III Tourer with Ural sidecar
2003 Royal Enfield Bullet 500

Offline swooshdave

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Re: Bub sump and spacer windage plate for T3
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2017, 09:35:48 PM »
Plenty of old bikes have rubber oil lines, there isn't THAT much pressure there. I think the bigger problem is sitting in hot oil for extended amounts of time.
--
2001 V11 Sport
1972 Norton Production Racer Replica
1973 Bultaco Sherpa T
1975 Ducati 860GT

Offline 93spada

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Re: Bub sump and spacer windage plate for T3
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2017, 07:41:36 AM »
https://youtu.be/9xqk6Fre7eM

The video gives you more views.





Countersunk holes.



Note that mounting holes don't go all the way through. I'd probably use a silicone gasket glued to the plate to seal it up. The red part would be rigid and the pipes would hold it in place. You'd offer the pan up and hopefully everything lines up when you bolt it up.

I might be able to add the rest of the parts including the pipes later. I use TinkerCAD which is pretty simple and I don't know if I can bend the tubes.

Hi Dave
Sorry it took so long for this reply  had family issue.
I think you may have hit it with this.
If I attach this
   http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_162&products_id=2403 
 filter adaptor to the outside of the sump, your plate adaptor could hang down from the crankcase and then be attached with the screws from the outside then sump screws to bolt the assembly up in place..
I like this. Ill look at the mess today and see if it would really work.

Thanks again
Paul
PJM

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Bub sump and spacer windage plate for T3
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2017, 09:43:21 AM »
When I was thinking about installing a filter inside my Eldorado sump I found 3/8 brake lines in steel, quite easy to bend.


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72 Eldorado
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Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since 1921

 


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