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Yes, I don't see why not the inner 4 tabs, good idea. I did a Bubs w/hydraulic hoses and worked very well. I had also forgot to put a gasket on 1st. I would use silicone gaskets.Little fingers help.
Do not go to the Bub sump. I had on on my bike G5 and l lost oil pressure twice. After that I went with the Guzzi spacer . No issues with that setup. Now I have a Convert and have the early style Harper's spacer with external filter. This setup works best for me.As a side note the Bub setup had problems with the rubber hoses splitting coming off the internal attachments, also the shape of the Bub pan made it difficult to support the bike when changing the front tireAlso if you go to the spacer setup remember it does not take a extra chart of oil.The spacer does ADD more space above the oil to help with the venting of the crankcase however you will need to replace the dipstick because cause the original dipstick won't read correctly. I use the dipstick from a Cali 11 with the spacer.So it the end you still the same amount of oil that's in the owner manual.I'm sure others will add there take on this setupTOMB
Does your lollipop, oil pickup, have a screen in it? Mine did not and I lost an engine due to it.Small piece of metal came through and destroyed the oil pump. Metal piece was broken it of lock washer that came from the rocker shaft retainer. Guzziology says to replace those split lockwashers with Schoor washers. Do that on all my bikes now. Sold the Bub sump on ebay.
Can you clarify what you're trying to achieve? I may be mistaken, but I have the impression that you want to use the Bub deep sump and the Guzzi spacer together. That's what I interpret from your saying you might consider "permanently joining spacer to sump."If so, that would really reduce your ground clearance. On the other hand, it would also let you add about an extra quart of oil to the sump capacity plus have the benefit of more air space above the oil level. That combination of benefits is an interesting trade-off for the reduced ground clearance.Permanently joining the spacer to the sump will perhaps make it easier to handle the "sandwiched" parts during assembly. But you'll still need tiny hands because you'll have to install the four through-bolts, and two layers of gaskets, for the internal sump pickup attachments before lifting the sump/spacer assembly into its installed position. In my experience, there isn't much flexibility in the Bub's internal sump hoses. Assembly of the Bub sump by itself is normally a pain. Combining it with the spacer would seem to make it even harder.It's just me, but I'd choose to run one or the other -- spacer or deep sump -- instead of both.
Thanks guzzisteve.I was thinking plate aluminum cut to fit at 1/2"? clearance all around with holes to accommodate the dip stick and oil return pipe.I like the hydraulic hose idea. Do you think they could be made long enough to loop inside the sump to give more room to assemble. Would they lay down enough to clear everything. I hate the barb fittings and don't trust them in there.Thanks fro the helpPaul
That is, of course, what the holes in spacer are for, pretty much every race bike has one there, but best in conjunction with a mesh baffle above it and scraper bolted to crankcase.But plate usually has big hole around oil filter, dished to drain there.My only reservation on your plan is oil may not drain quickly enough down sides, actually creating windage with oil bouncing back up, starvation problem v unlikely but may not achieve same result.Hard to simulate the oil fall at 7k but I think either a mesh plate alone or flat with big dished drain hole would be better.Just my 2c
What about modifying that sump so that the oil filter feeds could be disconnected externally. If you did that you could create hard lines inside. Removal then would consist of disconnecting the hard lines going to the filter area. I believe all of the rest of the parts could remain attached as you dropped the sump.Might not have thought that all the way through.The disconnect would be, ahem, tricky...
What an awful looking setup far too many connections. No hoses please.Would it be possible to move all the oil pipes to just the extension so the sump is just a bolt on empty container, the oil suction would extend down from the extension instead of that loose piece.I would also put the filter inside with all the extra room you have.Check out the large steel brake line available, 3/8 is a good size,
Do not go to the Bub sump. I had one on my bike G5 and l lost oil pressure twice. After that I went with the Guzzi spacer . No issues with that setup. Now I have a Convert and have the early style Harper's spacer with external filter. This setup works best for me.As a side note the Bub setup had problems with the rubber hoses splitting coming off the internal attachments, also the shape of the Bub pan made it difficult to support the bike when changing the front tireAlso if you go to the spacer setup remember it does not take a extra chart of oil.The spacer does ADD more space above the oil to help with the venting of the crankcase however you will need to replace the dipstick because cause the original dipstick won't read correctly. I use the dipstick from a Cali 11 with the spacer.So it the end you still the same amount of oil that's in the owner manual.I'm sure others will add there take on this setupTOMB
Thanks for the input. All good thoughtsThat makes sense. Maybe the little extra oil would take care of the drain back / starvation issue. Have to do a before and after oil level with and without spacer and sump.What is the scraper bolted to the crankcase??As a side note....the spacer is off a 93 SPIII, just after the Dr John Daytona. Did they add those spacer tabs and a plate for that engine????? Yes, dished plate or screen. Either would maybe hold looped hoses down in the sump.Thank You,Paul
Hi Dave,We did think about quick disconnects and external disconnects (thanks McMaster-Carr).The filter would be relatively easy. It has a nut on the outside to hold the whole fitting tight. Take the nut off and the fitting would stay in place as the sump is removed. The filter return line unfortunately is threaded directly to the sump. Not much room to add a nut on the outside of sump and not create leak at the filter seal.Ill post pics of the outside of the sump soon.Overall, That is heading in the direction I like the most. Hard lines and one piece assembly.Thank you for the ideas.Paul
I'd chuck that Bub sump on eBay and buy something better, like the Harper's Outsider or this one:http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_162&products_id=2216
Part of the problem with the four long bolt is when you assembly spacers inside that the hoses attached to and you tighten down the bolts some of the holes and it Guzzi crankcase are not drilled deep enough so you're actually bottoming the bolt but not tightening the spacer where the hoses attached, and you don't have a complete seal, and you have the ability for oil to not flow correctly. If you read the posts right now looks like to me they're running 50/50 on what you're trying to accomplish good luck. I still vote pass on the Bub spacer.TOMB
As to the cornering clearance you could attach a piece of modeling clay to the sump to see.
Donít have pix at hand but if you get write up of wittners (dr John) race bike you should get good pix. I saw bolts on his crankcase, read up on v8 windage and made similar. Is only a piece of angle iron cut to just miss conrods and crank, scrapes the oil off every revolution,No , spacer always had these tabs, even when it was only a kit part for early Le Mans Funny part is factory never supplied the plate itself, just the mounting for it.A lot of aftermarket spacers do not have them and probably for normal street use there is little to be gained. But with high rpm windage is major issue
I have the Bub on my 850T so I have vested interest in your explorations.Iíve never opened it up so Iíd love to see too many pictures of it.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hi DaveI will post more pics on Monday/Tuesday. Its not in my garage but 20 miles away.As everyone has said though, I would pull it and AT LEAST replace all the hoses soon. Yes it will be a PITA but could save the engine.Paul
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