For you Corvair fans

[rodekyll]

Didn't WV eventually go to a trailing arm double u joint suspension like the 65-69 Corvair? Old beetles were known for flipping over and seeing them with wrinkled roofs from a slow speed rollover was not all that uncommon... My 66 Corvair was designed to understeer with a stock front swaybar. Quick turns at low speeds had the front end running wide, the tires scrubbing off speed like a Ford...When doing autocrossing, the front bar links were removed so the car would go to oversteer and be faster on the tight track.A Posi rear differential also helped to bring the ass around..At higher speeds on the road, oversteer can be a handful, especially with the Corvair slow steering..

Yes, after the Z bar in '67, VW went with open axles with CV joints (not u-joints) in '68.  I used those axle shaft/CV joint combinations for the drive shaft and rear axles on my trike.

[rodekyll]

The factory claimed 160hp with the turbo.

[ohiorider]

Dunno about you but all those swing axle cars had a reputation for oversteer at awkward moments. Many had a fix applied by the maker.

I doubt any had a wheel "tuck under" and that includes Corvairs-but the real killer for the Corvair was GM. They weren't selling well.

My evidence is anecdotal. admittedly. but I was personally riding in the 1960 Corvair when the right axle in a left turn  tucked, causing the rear end to jump upward.  I was an eye-witness to the outer rear axle on the FIAT X 1/9 tucking under at a local autocross, lofting the rear end vertically.  You are certainly entitled to your doubts.

Bob

[ohiorider]

RK, from memory (no Goggle), I think the turbo was 180hp.

:-)

I think 180 was the hp quoted by the manufacturer.

[ohiorider]

Are you saying you don't believe that figure?

:-)

Absolutely not!  I was simply stating that I also recalled the hp rating being 180 on the turbo'd Corvair.

Bob

[Rough Edge racing]

 Like any forced induction engine, if the supercharger has enough capacity, you can raise the boost and make a lot more power if detonation is kept under control and engine durability is adequate.. Back when, a drag racer a 64 Turbo Corvair in a stock class did great by increasing boost...

[GearheadGrrrl]

Engines falling out of Corvairs? Sounds like some folks have them confused with GM's first mainstream front wheel drive cars in the early 80s which would lose their engine subframe and all if the car wasn't lifted and towed properly. But the Corvair's engine could neatly be unbolted and the rest of the car jacked up to liberate it- I took advantage of that feature a few times, once even pulled a Corvair engine with nothing but the car's jack and a big stack of wood blocks.

As for Corvairs flipping, that was mostly caused by too low rear tire pressures. Tom McCahill wrote about that in his road test, finding that even Chevy dealers were delivering new Corvairs with too low rear tire pressures. He cranked the rear tire pressures above Chevy's oft ignored recommendations and found it impossible to flip even the swing axle Corvair, no matter how hard he tried.

But the American people are a gullible lot and instead took the word of a lawyer who didn't even know how to drive and bought the inferior Falcons and Valiants instead. GM cowered and joined Ford and Mopar in offering mediocre small cars. Meanwhile, a little automaker in Germany that had helped design the Corvair came out with a similar car called the 911, and a half century later it's still in production and one of the world's most admired cars.

[GNarch]

Had the blue one in college
great until the clutch blew.

[Arizona Wayne]

I used to run my Volvo P1800 in autocrosses in soCal in the early 60s.  1 time I saw the latter Corvair (Monza?) version slide sraight right past a corner instead of turn like every other car did with it's front wheels turned to make the corner.

Another time while driving my Volvo 142S there was an early version of the Corvair in front of us on the freeway going 80 mph with 4 women in it. All of a sudden the Corvair started doing donuts repeatedly over both lanes !!     I don't know what broke but for sure if it had been any other car it would have flipped.  Far as I know no one was hurt, but still.....

I knew a CHP officer who showed me pics of Corvairs that had come apart right where the windshield was.  Right in half!      So if that happened to the driver his feet/shoes would be on the pavement while he sat on the driver's seat.     

[Aaron D.]

My evidence is anecdotal. admittedly. but I was personally riding in the 1960 Corvair when the right axle in a left turn  tucked, causing the rear end to jump upward.  I was an eye-witness to the outer rear axle on the FIAT X 1/9 tucking under at a local autocross, lofting the rear end vertically.  You are certainly entitled to your doubts.

Bob

I would not question your experience-however the X1/9 doesn't have swing axles so if the wheel tucked under something broke.

[wymple]

The 1st turbo Corvair was rated 150 HP, the later version was 180.

[Arizona Wayne]

The 1st turbo Corvair was rated 150 HP, the later version was 180.

I remember the 1st turbo Corvair rated @ 140 hp and challenged 1 w/by buddies Austin Healey/6....................it blew me off even tho I had blown off a 409 Chevy with the Healey.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I remember the 1st turbo Corvair rated @ 140 hp and challenged 1 w/by buddies Austin Healey/6....................it blew me off even tho I had blown off a 409 Chevy with the Healey.

<scratching head> I had a new Healey in 63, and it wasn't about to blow off a "She's real fine, my 409." Unless it was about going around corners, of course. 

[ohiorider]

I would not question your experience-however the X1/9 doesn't have swing axles so if the wheel tucked under something broke.

Aaron, you've caused me to go back and check production dates for the X 1/9, and now I'm thinking I called out the wrong car.  My buddy and I were at a local autocross where he ran his Fiat and I ran my 1968 VW Beetle, which I traded in 1970.  So, my buddy's Fiat was most likely a pre-X 1/9, most likely an 850 Spider, not an X 1/9.  I'll have to research the rear suspension on the earlier 850.  You seem to know Fiats quite well ..... could the Spider have had the swing axle?

Bob

[Arizona Wayne]

<scratching head> I had a new Healey in 63, and it wasn't about to blow off a "She's real fine, my 409." Unless it was about going around corners, of course. 

It was a `61 Healey which I didn't even know I was racing but I got the AH up to 120 mph @ night on a 2 lane road near Costa Mesa, Ca.  While I stopped @ a red light this Chevy pulls up next to me the driver says, "you just blew off a 409 Chevy"!  Then he wants to race me when the light turns green....whatever.. .light goes green, his rear wheels are laying rubber but he's hardly moving forward....I let out the clutch and blast away never to see him any more.  That's the rest of the story. 

[GearheadGrrrl]

IIRC, the X1/9 was a transverse mid engined car with double jointed rear suspension. The 850s came in sedan, coupe, and "Spyder" convertible flavors and carried over the Fiat 600's swing axles.

[twowings]

Just for you, Ralph Nader!

[wymple]

http://www.carnut.com/specs/gen/vair60.html

[GearheadGrrrl]

Fiat 850: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_850

[wymple]

My nephew had an 850 Spider, and I had a 124. The 850 had the rear engine, with a water pump sitting remotely off by itself on the side, run by a belt. The fuel pump sat directly above the muffler on the other side of the engine. Can't believe they didn't all burn down. Really a good looking little car, slow.

[Aaron D.]

Aaron, you've caused me to go back and check production dates for the X 1/9, and now I'm thinking I called out the wrong car.  My buddy and I were at a local autocross where he ran his Fiat and I ran my 1968 VW Beetle, which I traded in 1970.  So, my buddy's Fiat was most likely a pre-X 1/9, most likely an 850 Spider, not an X 1/9.  I'll have to research the rear suspension on the earlier 850.  You seem to know Fiats quite well ..... could the Spider have had the swing axle?

Bob

The 850s had trailing arms, and a serious rust problem! On mine, if I lowered the top the doors wouldn't open!

[Demar]

My roommate in college built a dune buggy with a Corvair engine. We would ride the dunes at Pismo Beach. Lots of air with that motor. 

[Rusty goose]

I think the real killer of the Corvair was the Mustang (or other cheap muscle cars).  The horsepower race was on, the Corvair, even with the turbo, was not going to win any drag races with any v8's. 
They still hold a very special place in my heart. They wear just the perfect size, large enough for four adults, small enough to park in todays parking lots.  My '67 with the 110 engine could take on-ramps here in CA much faster than my 240Z.  All the weight on the rear wheels planted that thing solidly.  You could really push the corners fast and tight, it didn't grunt, squeal, or complain right to the point the rear broke loose.  At that point it was hopeless, when the rear swung out there was no recovery, unlike the little Z car.  Corvairs don't do Gymkhanas!

[GearheadGrrrl]

Not sure if the lack of a V8 was much of a factor, as IIRC most Mustangs were sold with Ford's anemic sixes and most Corvairs, even the best selling Monza 2 door couples, were sold with the 95 and 110 HP engines during the same 65-69 time frame rather than the 140 HP 4 carb and 180 HP turbo variants. BTW, the Corvair probably instigated the Mustang- Ford noted how well the Monza coupes with bucket seats were selling and slipped bucket seats into the Falcon 2 door and called it the Falcon Futura. It sold well too, so Ford took a gamble and built the Mustang. More likely it was Nader who chased off Corvair buyers, as well as in house competition from the Camaro.

[scura283]

Rusty Goose, I have to disagree with your statement about Corvairs not doing gymkhanas.
Back in the day I was an avid SCCA autocrosser in my 66 Monza, winning 5 regional championships, 3 divisional championships, and 1 National championship.
My Monza was classified in H Stock, the lowest stock class, yet the year I won Nationals out of the approximately 200+ Stock class cars, only 6 A stock 911/914/6 Porsches, 1 B Stock Corvette and 1C Stock RX7 had quicker times. Autoweek was impressed enough with this, that in their coverage of that year's Nationals, they highlighted the fact these times were faster than the supposedly quicker classes.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Never had the budget to compete beyond local gymkhanas (what they called autocrosses back then) or do any real mods, but my '61 Monza 102 HP/4 speed and my mom's '66 Monza 110HP/"Powerslide" were both competitive. Look at the stats- 2500 pounds, independent suspension all around, and up to 180 HP- And the Corvair could clearly compete with some much more expensive and legendary cars!

[hidn45]

My neighbor has (I believe, still has) a TorVair, Corvair with the Olds Toronado big block (455 cu.in.?).  Supposedly one of a small number of "engineer's prototypes", if you believe the firewall plaque....  I was not overly impressed the little bit I drove it, but it was not running well at the time. 

Worked for a guy who had several 'Vairs of several different configurations, including wagons, vans & pickups.  The Monza was indeed impressive.  His take was that the turbo motor often did not survive well because of a higher compression ratio in combo with the boost....

[oldbike54]

Rusty Goose, I have to disagree with your statement about Corvairs not doing gymkhanas.
Back in the day I was an avid SCCA autocrosser in my 66 Monza, winning 5 regional championships, 3 divisional championships, and 1 National championship.
My Monza was classified in H Stock, the lowest stock class, yet the year I won Nationals out of the approximately 200+ Stock class cars, only 6 A stock 911/914/6 Porsches, 1 B Stock Corvette and 1C Stock RX7 had quicker times. Autoweek was impressed enough with this, that in their coverage of that year's Nationals, they highlighted the fact these times were faster than the supposedly quicker classes.

 Did a bit of that in the early 70's , even got a mention in the SCCA newsletter for placing 2nd in class at a regional ran at the old paved oval track on the Zink ranch near Tulsa with several chicanes and using the little bit of infieldcourse. Drove two classes , one in a friend's RX4 and another in his wife's TR4A . She never let me near that car again    Memory says there were only about 5 cars in the class I won 2nd in 

 The top time of the day was set in a full race prepped 356 , and I think a Mini was just a hair behind .

 Dusty

[Arizona Wayne]

The 850s had trailing arms, and a serious rust problem! On mine, if I lowered the top the doors wouldn't open!

My long time buddy Jim had a Fiat 124 roadster and never had rust issues for years in soCal.   So maybe it mattered where you drove your Fiat?   

[keuka4884]

I learned to drive in a 62 Monza 4spd convertible. Fun car to drive. A friend had one too. We were out and about in it one night. Came to a stop at a stop sign out in the country. The thing would not go. We finally got out and opened the engine compartment to find the motor had dropped down. after that we learned that the Corvair engine was held in place by its attachment to the transmission, and ONE bolt at the rear of the motor. ONE bolt! I couldn't believe it, but true. The serpentine belt was a PIA, but the one attachment bolt totally turned me off to the car after that. Loved the gas mileage but the engineering was barf worthy.