Its Time

[Kiwi_Roy]

To clean your battery terminals and apply a little grease.

Anyone who knows me is sick of me going on about the importance of greasing the battery terminals.

While your bike is parked for the winter the lead oxide is silently creeping in between the terminal and lug ready to make you think the battery is toast when you go to start next spring.
Scrape the terminals now and apply some Vaseline give it a top up charge at the end of January and next spring thats what it will do, spring into life.

[mojoe]

Or keep driving it till the snow comes 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Or keep driving it till the snow comes 

Or the last little spec of lead that was making contact melts one cold morning, the lights go out and you think the battery just died.

Its only playing Possum.

[Huzo]

I think I'll do that KR.
So I clean the terminals, then apply the Vaseline and finally attach the terminal ?
Or..
Clean the terminal, do up the bolt and then apply Vaseline ?
I think the first one is the way to go. Yes ?

[oldbike54]

I think I'll do that KR.
So I clean the terminals, then apply the Vaseline and finally attach the terminal ?
Or..
Clean the terminal, do up the bolt and then apply Vaseline ?
I think the first one is the way to go. Yes ?

 Only on old Brit bikes with positive Earth 

 Thanks for the reminder Roy , and thanks for taking on the task of sorting out the electrical systems on Moto Guzzis . We all owe you a debt of gratitude 

 Dusty

[tris]

I think I'll do that KR.
So I clean the terminals, then apply the Vaseline and finally attach the terminal ?
Or..
Clean the terminal, do up the bolt and then apply Vaseline ?
I think the first one is the way to go. Yes ?

Yes KR - please explain as I've always thought that metal to metal would be best and then protect everything with grease

However, I'm a Mech. E so what would I know about this sparky stuff

[Triple Jim]

I have never had any problem created by greasing the parts before connecting and tightening.  I suspect that no one has ever had any problem from connecting, tightening, and then applying grease.  Discussing which is better is like arguing about what the best beer is.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I always apply grease first . You might think the surfaces are flat but in reality the area of contact is only a small portion of the area.


Sent from my shoe phone!

[Bonaventure]

This thread is perfect timing.   

Two things happened for me in the past 24 hrs.  1.  ordered a Motobatt MBTX16U (brass terminals instead of lead!!), and 2. The pictured stuff arrived yesterday-- electrical contact grease that is electrically conductive and recommended for use on battery terminals... it may improve the connection vs connecting dry.   

[Markcarovilli]

So what’s the results of testing this jar of goop?

Mark

[Kiwi_Roy]

I'm going to guess infinity


Sent from my shoe phone!

[Orange Guzzi]

I solder my connections.  Never fail.   

[oldbike54]

I solder my connections.  Never fail.

 You solder the battery leads onto the battery ?

 Dusty

[Vince in Milwaukee]

My lawn & garden battery (say it isn't so) is sitting on the work bench out in the garage.  It gets charged once a month during our beautiful Wisconsin winter.  Come spring time, the terminals get wire brushed and it goes back in the Le Mans.  I stick a little dab of grease on both terminals after everything is hooked up.  Been doing it this way for years. 
 

[Huzo]

I always apply grease first . You might think the surfaces are flat but in reality the area of contact is only a small portion of the area.


Sent from my shoe phone!

Ok then.
All I need to hear..

[Bonaventure]

So what�s the results of testing this jar of goop?

Mark

How shall I test it?  Cost about same as a jar of Vaseline so figure it's worth a try. 

[Markcarovilli]

Stick your multimeter leads in jar about a .25 inch apart and set it to read ohms and report back...

Mark

[Triple Jim]

You solder the battery leads onto the battery?

I suppose you could do that with a big old soldering copper, since the terminals are lead.  The trick would be doing it quickly enough to avoid damaging the battery.  Hmmmm...

[Bonaventure]

Stick your multimeter leads in jar about a .25 inch apart and set it to read ohms and report back...

Mark

Did that.  Needle didn't move.

[Markcarovilli]

Ummm doesn’t look very conductive to me.  Time for Kiwi Roy to chime in...

Mark

[Lannis]

I suppose you could do that with a big old soldering copper, since the terminals are lead.  The trick would be doing it quickly enough to avoid damaging the battery.  Hmmmm...

I don't think that would work.   For a proper joint, both sides of the connection are going to have to be at soldering temperature.    That big old lead battery post is going to sink a LOT of heat - you wouldn't get it to soldering temperature until the whole post, including the part in contact with the acid, is hot ... and I don't believe it would survive intact .... 

Lannis

[Triple Jim]

I don't think that would work.   For a proper joint, both sides of the connection are going to have to be at soldering temperature.    That big old lead battery post is going to sink a LOT of heat - you wouldn't get it to soldering temperature until the whole post, including the part in contact with the acid, is hot ... and I don't believe it would survive intact .... 

Lannis

Lead  isn't a great thermal conductor, and you can heat a soldering copper as hot as you like.  I'm pretty sure I could do it, especially with a motorcycle battery that doesn't have massive terminals.  I have a couple old batteries ready to head to the recycler, so if you want to know, I can give it a try.

[Lannis]

Lead  isn't a great thermal conductor, and you can heat a soldering copper as hot as you like.  I'm pretty sure I could do it, especially with a motorcycle battery that doesn't have massive terminals.  I have a couple old batteries ready to head to the recycler, so if you want to know, I can give it a try.

Well, it would sort of hard to tell with an old battery that didn't work any more in the first place.

You could certainly check the mechanical integrity of such a joint by pulling on it, and the electrical quality with an ohmmeter.   But without using a good battery, you're not going to know if you've hosed the internal parts of the battery by overheating .... ?   

The thermal conductivity of lead near soldering temperature is about the same as that of carbon steel or cupronickel, so you'd have to be feeding heat in mighty fast to catch up ...

I suppose it might all work out in the end ... I'd be interested to hear the results of an experiment!

No torches or open flames, now, you know what that H will do, whether it stands for Hydrogen or Hindenburg!

Lannis

[Triple Jim]

While you were typing, I got a large soldering copper heating, filed clean the top of a terminal of a lawn tractor battery (a favorite among Guzzi owners), and tinned a piece of about #6 copper wire.  Then I took the very hot copper over to the battery and easily tinned the terminal in about 1/4 of a second, with solder that definitely flowed  nicely.  Then I put the tinned end of the wire on the terminal and applied the copper while adding solder.  It didn't take more than about one second, or maybe two at the maximum, to make a nice flowed joint.  Then I got the camera and took a picture.  Having the bolt hole in the terminal helped, since it reduced heat flow into the main part of the terminal.  The wire is truly stuck, and you can see how far the melted rosin flux got down the terminal... just a small area right under the joint.  The lower part of the terminal didn't even get too hot to touch.  I don't think I'll actually solder my motorcycle's cables to the battery, but it really might make trouble-free joints if I did, especially if I wrapped some copper wire though the hole and around the wire a few times before soldering.

[Lannis]

Well that certainly looks like a nice clean joint, so my "guess" was ... wrong!

Think I'll stick with nice shiny vaselined terminals and star washers though ....

Lannis

[Markcarovilli]

So we are back to the grease and electrical contact goop.....

I’m in with Vasoline...

Mark

[Triple Jim]

Ummm doesn�t look very conductive to me.  Time for Kiwi Roy to chime in...

Mark

I suppose it's possible that a grease with conductive particles in it could conduct between two surfaces once the gap got squeezed down to less than the particle size, allowing each particle to bridge the gap.

[Bonaventure]

I suppose it's possible that a grease with conductive particles in it could conduct between two surfaces once the gap got squeezed down to less than the particle size, allowing each particle to bridge the gap.

There are zinc particulate grease/pastes that are as you describe.  However, Sanchem, makers of NO-OX-ID (aka electric contact goop) claim that such metal particulate greases aren't very conductive. 

Well one thing good about NO-OX-ID (aka electric contact goop) is that it doesn't melt until 300 F according to Sanchem.   Either way, cost me about same as big jar of vaseline so I'm good with it.   

[Kiwi_Roy]

 

Nice Job

If you get a short circuit the wire will get really hot and melt the solder saving the bike


[/quote]
Tis looks like Petroleum Jelly as well.
I think any grease will help protect the terminals its just that petroleum jelly is a bit less messy
 

Petroleum jelly - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_jelly
Petroleum jelly, petrolatum, white petrolatum, soft paraffin/paraffin wax or multi-hydrocarbon, CAS number 8009-03-8, is a semi-solid mixture of hydrocarbons (with carbon numbers mainly higher than 25), originally promoted as a topical ointment for its healing properties.
‎Uses · ‎Skin and hair care · ‎Product care and ... · ‎Other

[Triple Jim]

Nice Job
If you get a short circuit the wire will get really hot and melt the solder saving the bike

That made me chuckle.      It was really just an exercise to see how difficult it would be.  I see several advantages of actually doing this on a motorcycle, but the big drawback is the difficulty of swapping batteries if one fails on a trip and you buy a new one.  I guess some clamp type terminals and a wire cutter in the tool kit could let you revert to a conventional setup, but I don't think I've ever had a reliability problem with the usual screw terminal system.  The old automotive lead clamps on tapered round posts, on the other hand, gave me trouble more than once.