Big Benelli on Ebay

[canuck750]

Benelli 900, has not met reserve, bet he's asking a big number for it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-Benelli-Benelli-900-sei/282795712118?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D49453%26meid%3Da61396ba861744b1be08cef7cb58f2a6%26pid%3D100678%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D3%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D282795712118&_trksid=p2481888.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci%253Af4a9a690-f26f-11e7-8742-74dbd1807f16%257Cparentrq%253Ac8a6539e1600a991c19a7f93ffe76cd1%257Ciid%253A1

[chuck peterson]

Let's see why yes that does look like a v65 fairing...

[Tusayan]

Here's one on Grimselpass in Switzerland in 2009...   It'd be a fun bike to own, and an interesting bike for sure, but its not outstanding enough to be worth really big bucks.

[twowings]

Want.

[Huzo]

Here's one on Grimselpass in Switzerland in 2009...   It'd be a fun bike to own, and an interesting bike for sure, but its not outstanding enough to be worth really big bucks.

Are they any good to ride ?

[LowRyter]

So how did Benelli get the design from Honda 500/4?

Was it licensed, stolen or winked at?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Let's see why yes that does look like a v65 fairing...

Except the V65 fairing had a rectangular headlight.

[Huzo]

So how did Benelli get the design from Honda 500/4?

Was it licensed, stolen or winked at?

I said that about the 750 Sei, suggesting it was 1.5 500 Fours and was roundly criticised.
I mean, you only have to look at the bastard !

[LowRyter]

so how did Benelli  get it from Honda?  Did Honda assist or was it stolen?

[Tusayan]

So how did Benelli get the design from Honda 500/4?

Was it licensed, stolen or winked at?

Alejandro De Tomaso was probably the most 'competitive' individual against the 1970s rise of the Japanese motorcycle industry, but was not opposed to stealing their designs if it would help him beat them.. He did not cooperate with them....

The styling on Guzzis and Benellis was done by the same people under De Tomaso and obviously you can see a lot of Guzzi in this Benelli...  The seat is close to a LeMans III, the forks, instruments etc are common with Guzzi and above all the engine was manufactured by Guzzi at Mandello. If De Tomaso had had his way, the Benellis and Guzzis using the same engines would have taken over from the V-twins for both brands, but that's not what the international market wanted from Italy in the 70s and 80s.

[LowRyter]

So DeTomaso said just build a crank and steal the rest from the Honda parts bin?

[Tusayan]

So DeTomaso said just build a crank and steal the rest from the Honda parts bin?

In the case of the 350, 400 and 500 cc four cylinder versions sold as both Benellis and Guzzis, they produced a four cylinder engine almost indistinguishable from the Honda. In that era there was a big tariff on IIRC 400 cc and under in Italy (De Tomaso's political work) that helped keep the Japanese manufacturers out, so even if the bike was more expensive than a Honda it could still compete in Italy.

https://motorrad-fuchs.com/en/single,741,1,350_GTS.html

[Arizona Wayne]

The 900cc-6 Benellis had 3 carbs.  How many carbs did the Honda multis have?

[Tusayan]

The 900cc-6 Benellis had 3 carbs.  How many carbs did the Honda multis have?

Honda never built a six cylinder version of the single cam engine, so had no application that would be appropriate for three carbs.

(Both the Honda and Benelli single cam fours had four carbs)

[Moto]

Excellent posts, Tusayan.

I have never understood the enthusiasm for these multi-cylinder Honda wanna-be's. Why does "Benelli" on the tank transform the banal to the exotic?

Moto

[Dukedesmo]

In that era there was a big tariff on IIRC 400 cc and under in Italy

I think they actually banned the import of bikes under 380cc as a protectionist move for the Italian manufacturers.

I lived in Italy in the late '70s - mid 80's and had a Suzuki GT380 which, for the rest of the world was under 380cc but Suzuki made a special version for the Italian market with a slightly larger bore to make it over 380cc.

[huub]

Excellent posts, Tusayan.

I have never understood the enthusiasm for these multi-cylinder Honda wanna-be's. Why does "Benelli" on the tank transform the banal to the exotic?

Moto

i would love one ,  first of all any 6 cylinder is a exotic bike
and they are very nice machines to actually ride,
lighter than the jap 6 cylinder effords and a very smooth engine that just wants to rev.

never mind what is on the tank , ride one , and you might understand why they are so sought after

[Aaron D.]

I've ridden the 750 and the 900, never thought they were particularly good. The 750 is definitely cooler though.

[LowRyter]

Excellent posts, Tusayan.

I have never understood the enthusiasm for these multi-cylinder Honda wanna-be's. Why does "Benelli" on the tank transform the banal to the exotic?

Moto

two more cylinders, one fewer carburetor, and Italian manufacture?



Only guessing.  When I saw the first photo of the bike back in the '70s my reaction was that Honda had purchased the Benelli name from Montgomery Wards.   

[Travman]

In the case of the 350, 400 and 500 cc four cylinder versions sold as both Benellis and Guzzis, they produced a four cylinder engine almost indistinguishable from the Honda. In that era there was a big tariff on IIRC 400 cc and under in Italy (De Tomaso's political work) that helped keep the Japanese manufacturers out, so even if the bike was more expensive than a Honda it could still compete in Italy.

https://motorrad-fuchs.com/en/single,741,1,350_GTS.html

Wow. That is hideous. I really can't stand the way the stripes and emblems on the tank and side panels are aligned at opposite angles to each other. It is a very jarring look.

The 900 version is much more coherent and very beautiful.

[Travman]

The Benelli 900 is an exotic sounding machine  .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJjGM5r40sc

[canuck750]

I have read in Classic Bike that a Brit expert (Selwyn) on the marque claims that only a half dozen or so parts match the Honda engine, none of them internal. Though the pistons are the same size as a Honda 500 the Benelli pistons are about 3/5 the weight of the Honda, the valves will fit but the stems are longer and the valve will strike the piston and so on...

Claiming the Benelli is a copy of the Honda is a myth, like the Guzzii V700 was derived from a tractor motor, say it enough times and people take it for a fact.

The 750 and 900 motors are not the same either, relocated alternator on the 900 plus many other small changes. The 750 1st generation suffered transmission failures due to weak shift dogs, later upgraded from 3 dogs to 6 then 5. Everything I have reads on the Benelli 750 and 900 seems to agree that the 900 is the better bike but the 750 has the 'look'.

I have found every period test I can get my hands on and from what I have read the 750 was an impressive bike, not earth shattering but a good handler with decent power and more agile than any period Honda. By the time the 900 came around the Japanese had all come out with DOHC machines of equal or greater displacement for a lot less money.

Acquiring a 750 Sei is #1 on my bucket list of cool Italian bikes to own.

[Tusayan]

Isn't it amazing when 5 or 6 parts are identical between engines, and one wasn't in any way a copy of the other 

Obviously what happened is that De Tomaso reverse engineered a Honda four cylinder engine, produced their own drawings for a similar four, and the parts are all very, very similar but only in a few cases exactly the same.  That's not surprising, Honda didn't give them the production drawings! For the Sei, they then expanded the De Tomaso engine by two cylinders, making mods so a six would be practical that weren't necessary on the four.  That would include moving the generator and three instead of six carbs - Dellorto didn't have a carb setup that was suitable for use in banks of six.

When Honda went to a six they did it with a DOHC engine and carbs specially built for the job...  But De Tomaso was doing it earlier and didn't have the same level of resources - the same issue that caused them to reverse engineer the Honda engine in the first place.

[Tusayan]

PS The one that interests me is the 254, it's sure a cute little thing, very 70s Italian styling and the engine being hung under the frame makes it more unique.  Doubtless very slow however 

https://www.antequeraclassic.com/catalogo/benelli-250-quattro

[LowRyter]

All BS aside, I'd like to ride one.   

[twowings]

https://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-italian-motorcycles/classic-benelli-motorcycles/benelli-900-sei-zmwz15mjzhur

[John A]

Curt Block, the man who does weird things to motorcycles late at night was one of the first to put a Crossly engine in a loop.He was short of a Guzzi engine after putting one in a 3/4  midget race car. So then he put a big bore kit in a Honda 750 and put that in a T3. Goes too fast, I'll see if I can get some pics. As with all his creations, it looks like a factory job.

[Arizona Wayne]

At the 1999 Guzzi National @ Elkader, Iowa I remember seeing an Eldo? w/a Crosley motor.  Could that have been him?