Rust in tank

[Mikecocos]

I have a rust problem in the gas tank of my 2014 v7 stone. I removed the tank today as well as the fuel pump. Found a ton of rust. Pics below of the fuel pump and the drained gas. Discoloration is  because of rust.

Don't understand why the tank is that rusty given that it is a relatively new bike. I cover the bike with a tarp at night, it is stored inside during the long and glacial Canadian winter.

I bought 15 litres of an anti-rust solution called Evapo-rust based on some recommendations from this forum. I am going to fill the tank with the solution. Hopefully that will clear the rust out of the tank. I will provide updates regarding its effects.

Does anyone know if the particular filter i.e. the netting on the fuel pump (see close up of brown coffee filter type net above the pump) can be replaced? If yes, how and where is the part sourced from? Also how does the fuel reserve indicator work? Mine was broken, might as well try to fix it now that everything is disassembled. 

Thanks in advance

[Kev m]

I'd check the OEM parts catalogs at Harper's or AF1.

As for the reason for the rust it's tough to say, especially since I found nothing if the like last year when I opened the tank on my 13.

My SWAGS would be:

* Defective tank from start?
   1. Is there a coating on the OEM tank?
   2. Is the vent blocked or something else awry that would cause moisture?

* Improper storage conditions?
   1. Severe and frequent temperature swings causing condensation?
   2. Tarp trapping condensation?
   3. Contaminated fuel (with water)?

[guzzisteve]

On the fuel pump, the reserve sensor is next to hose just above tiewrap, see it, little round thing. I don't know where to get a new intake screen, off a bad pump.

[Lumpy Idle]

some years back i lived in a little town called soquel (santa cruz, ca adjacent.)  i used to get my gas at a little indy gas station down the block. the bike started to run like crap. i did a basic check, spark? fuel, timing? and discovered that the gas had a lot of rust in it. odd though, the tank itself did not seem rusty. i drained the remainin gas, cleaned the tank and the fuel float bowls and put it all back together.... ran fine. a week later they they closed down that gas station and yanked the tanks.

it may not be your bike - it may be your gas.

[Lumpy Idle]

oh yeah, one more thing. i told this story to a guy who once drove a fuel delivery truck and he told me to NEVER buy my gas when they were filling the tanks. he said that all gas storage tanks have accumulated water and sediment on the bottom. when the tank is low you risk getting some of it (yes, i know they are supposed to have line filters, but...)  when theyare filling the tanks the liquid is disturbed and the crap from the bottom is distributed through the holdings. so, i never buy gas at a station when i see the tanker truck filling the tanks.

[nc43bsa]

Does anyone know if the particular filter i.e. the netting on the fuel pump (see close up of brown coffee filter type net above the pump) can be replaced? If yes, how and where is the part sourced from?

That filter sock looks similar to those on mid-90's GM trucks and others.  You could try prying it off the pump and taking it to a parts store to match against what they have in stock.

[Kiwi_Roy]

A couple of questions
Does your V7 have a recessed filler cap?
Does it live outdoors or in a garage?

Could it be the same as the EVs, Jackals and like models which had a serious rust problem if left outdoors and the moat drain plugged.

[nwryder]

Are you using ethanol gas up there ? If so, you should consider draining the tank during the winter months.


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[Kiwi_Roy]

Never mind, I re-read your post, it's left outside under a tarp, the worst thing you can do, better to leave it uncovered IMHO.
Under a plastic type tarp it will sweat and quickly deteriorate, at least spring for a good quality m/c cover.

I bought an EV in Denver that had been left outside, the tank was full of rust because the filler moat drain was blocked solid. Any water from rain would collect under the cap where the only way out was into the tank next time it was filled.

I suspect your filler drain is blocked also, remove the cap and dribble a little light oil into the drain to see if it can get away.

I can't make out the fuel level sensor it's probably a small float that moves up and down a brass rod, a magnet inside the float operates a reed switch inside the brass tube.
This type is easily checked with a multimeter on Ohms. (0 Ohms when the float is at the bottom, Open circuit when the float is at the top.
    OR
A cylinder about 5mm in diameter x 50mm long with tiny slots in the end. Inside the cylinder is a thermistor that heats up and drops in resistance when uncovered, if its one of these measure the resistance and get back to us.

[Stevex]

Can't you remove the sock, give it a clean and refit it?

[Kev m]

Roy, the fuel level sensor isn't a float.

It is, like I believe on most EFI Guzzis, a thermosensor which is normally cooled by the presence of fuel and changes the sensor reading once it is out of the fuel.

[Sheepdog]

A few best practices:
1. Keep your tank full whenever the bike will sit more than a couple of days.
2. Store your bike in a full enclosure with a floor that incorporates a vapor barrier, or...
3. Spring for a breathable bike cover and park it on concrete or a piece of outdoor plywood.
4. Frequently wipe your bike down with an anti-corrosion compound like ACF-50.
5. Clean electrical contacts annually.

Ideally, our bikes should be put away clean and stored in a climate-controlled shed/garage, but that isn�t practical for many. Electrical contacts, brightwork, and paint are all vulnerable. Do your part with storage techniques and maintenance and your bike will last a great deal longer...

https://www.amazon.com/ACF-50-Anti-Corrosion-Lubricant-Compound-Aerosol/dp/B000P1C8UO

[Kev m]

Are you using ethanol gas up there ? If so, you should consider draining the tank during the winter months.


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That would be much worse that storing it full. The exposure to oxygen and the presence of condensation would hasten the rusting process.

[nwryder]

That would be much worse that storing it full. The exposure to oxygen and the presence of condensation would hasten the rusting process.

That would depend on the environment the bike’s stored in. I live in the northwest where it rains all the time and even though my garage is cold, it’s still bone dry.  It does get heated up once in awhile when I’m working out there. 


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[TimmyTheHog]

Since your location and the age of the bike is QUITE similar to me, and while I do not have rust in my tank, I would suspect the ethanol and tarp has something to do with it.

my old bike, the 03 Honda Shadow I used to own was gassed up with ethanol gas by the previous owner...and when I replaced the petcock due to leaky O-ring and god damn it was pouring out rust...about almost 0.5 Gal worth...

now, I am not here to start the debate of ethanol is good or not, but I do know ethanol LOVES moisture...like sucking up sponge style...with time, those moisture will split from the gas and stay in your tank...Tada, rust will start to form where the gas isn't touching the tank...

Edit: I took the part of parking outside out as I got confused between different posts LOL

You can get those breathable cover (deleted), as tent/roofing tarp does not let the moisture escape

But if you really want to cover over, then probably it is best to have these

https://www.lowes.ca/carports/shelterlogic-62681-autoshelter-reg-1015-portable-garage_12727616.html?af=3632&cse=3632&gclid=Cj0KCQiAp8fSBRCUARIsABPL6JZY6-ChUfW3zYcm9XLin40sRHXKj_ThljASdf-hcfXLQbS4jUBIb0saAvnGEALw_wcB

https://www.amazon.com/Bike-Shield-Motorcycle-Shelter-Storage/dp/B00RN90EZM/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1515358204&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=motorcycle+garage+storage&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/Peaktop-Motorcycle-Shelter-Storage-Garage/dp/B01J587HKS/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1515358204&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=motorcycle+garage+storage&psc=1

[rodekyll]

Unless you can somehow verify rust scale coming off the inside of the tank I'd suspect the gas, too.  I picked up a bad load that drained like melted  chunky caramel crunch ice cream.  It plugged my screen and filters, wrecked the pump and my tank switchgear.  I ended up having to redo everything from the tank spigots outward.  I made a mistake by attempting the fix piecemeal -- started with the most likely failures -- filters -- and finished only when I stripped out and replaced everything between the tank and injectors.

Otherwise a bad gas cap seal hasn't been mentioned yet.  With that recessed cap the seal is the only thing keeping the water out.

[Kev m]

That would depend on the environment the bike’s stored in. I live in the northwest where it rains all the time and even though my garage is cold, it’s still bone dry.  It does get heated up once in awhile when I’m working out there. 


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Well you're right the it would be ambient condition dependent. However shy of say the south west, I would think there would be moisture and condensation when temperatures swing sufficiently.

That said, doesn't the OP's tank tell us that moisture is an issue for his storage conditions?

[nwryder]

Well you're right the it would be ambient condition dependent. However shy of say the south west, I would think there would be moisture and condensation when temperatures swing sufficiently.

That said, doesn't the OP's tank tell us that moisture is an issue for his storage conditions?

I know what you’re saying.  I’m just wondering if the methanol that’s in the tank is drawing the moisture in.  Fill the tank full and it probably wouldn’t do that but then I always worry about methanol going bad when it sits for too long. 6 one way; half a dozen the other I guess. 


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[Kev m]

I know what you’re saying.  I’m just wondering if the methanol that’s in the tank is drawing the moisture in.  Fill the tank full and it probably wouldn’t do that but then I always worry about methanol going bad when it sits for too long. 6 one way; half a dozen the other I guess. 


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I don't think the fact that alcohol, like brake fluid, is hygroscopic means that it will draw moisture into what it essentially a sealed system (even if you consider the vent and one-way check valve).

It just means that when, during normal operation, atmosphere is drawn into the Steven the contains moisture the water molecules may be absorbed by the hygroscopic components of the fluid.

But there should be almost no airflow when stored, especially if stored full.

If anything I might be tempted to add something to deal with the ethanol like Star Tron or Sea Foam and let it be.

[ITSec]

Well you're right the it would be ambient condition dependent. However shy of say the south west, I would think there would be moisture and condensation when temperatures swing sufficiently.

That said, doesn't the OP's tank tell us that moisture is an issue for his storage conditions?

The OP mentioned Canadian winters, so I'll presume he's in my former hinterland.

The vast majority of Canada is pretty temperate for the spring,  fall and summer - the other 8 months of the year it's cold (yuk, yuk!). Actually, there are three near desert areas, in southern Manitoba, south-central Alberta, and in the rain-shadow area of south-central BC. For the rest, it's a lot like the climate of Minnesota, with a mix of very dry mid-winter, wetter parts of winter at the start and finish, and a temperate mix the rest of the year. Moisture can be an issue, so many of the suggestions you and others have offered are relevant.

Personally, for a bike this young, I'd start with a rinse and visual inspection of the tank interior (Canadian Tire to the rescue, get a cheap scope!). The chance of it being bad gas are very high, particularly if using the recommended premium fuel, since Canadians are apparently mostly born with red suspenders.

Ethanol in the gas is prevalent all across Canada - and before it was, we added it ourselves all winter to keep gas lines from freezing. Then again, we also stuck these cheesy plastic adhesive-ringed panels to the car windows every fall so we could see out of 'em till spring. When it got too cold, we'd just stay home and listen to out KTel records!

[Kev m]

In comparison my V7 has seen nothing but ethanol, but is stored in an attached garage that normally stays above freezing (this week with -1 to 17F temps being an exception). It certainly sees temperature swings and has been ridden in downpours, but certainly leads a liesurly life on balance.

When I opened my tank after ~3.5 years there wasn't a hint of corrosion.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Roy, the fuel level sensor isn't a float.

It is, like I believe on most EFI Guzzis, a thermosensor which is normally cooled by the presence of fuel and changes the sensor reading once it is out of the fuel.

That's what I was trying to describe as the thermistor type.

Kev, what do you think of the possibility of the moat drain blockage, it used to happen on EVs that were left out in the weatherI had two different tanks solidly blocked, Patrick Hayes made me aware of the problem, the water turns into heaps of rust. I know you had a Jackal but an indoor one I suspect. I'm just wondering if this would be something to worry about for owners that leave their bikes outside.

[Mikecocos]

Thanks Guys.

I ran into some trouble trying to seal the tank openings. Note that I need to plug the holes in order to fill the tank with the anti-rust solution.

I plugged the vent caps, which was easy. The fuel pump opening is more problematic as it is bigger. I cut a piece of tin to cover the opening then (in hindsight naively) used duct tape to try to seal the remaining gaps. I wanted to avoid using silicone. The duct tape leaked like a mofo. So I am going to redo it.  Has anyone ever done this before and have tips?

See pics attached.




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[Kev m]

That's what I was trying to describe as the thermistor type.

Kev, what do you think of the possibility of the moat drain blockage, it used to happen on EVs that were left out in the weatherI had two different tanks solidly blocked, Patrick Hayes made me aware of the problem, the water turns into heaps of rust. I know you had a Jackal but an indoor one I suspect. I'm just wondering if this would be something to worry about for owners that leave their bikes outside.

I'm an idiot, sorry, I stopped reading before thermistor and I assume your moat drain blockage is a good theory.

[Arizona Wayne]

Years ago my son Matt was interested in buying a used Suzuki GT550 triple 2 stroke bike.  So we went to check it out. The gas tank was full of gas and I test rode it.  I told him it was worth buying.  We bought it and later I looked in the gas tank and found it was full of rust!!       So we took the tank off and I took it to work where we had a bead blaster.  I put the nozzle of that sucker in the fill hole and within 5 minutes all the rust was gone!  Now the inside was clean and shiny.    End of rusty gas tank. 

[twowheeladdict]

Here in the humid south I fill the tank after every ride.  A full tank is less likely to oxidize.

A non breathable TARP will exacerbate the humidity condensation problem.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I have used a product called Rust Mort on several tanks and other rusty parts. After removing all the loose scale by rattling around a handful of screws swill a cupful around in the tank, leaves  a dull grey finish.


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[Chuck in Indiana]

I learned much to my chagrin that a non breathable cover over a bike in the Winter is a really bad idea. 

[JJ]

When I discovered I had "RUST" in the tank of my ol' '78 Honda GL1000, I had it removed, flushed and the inside of the gas tank "nickel-coated" at a local shop.  Best $250 I ever spent...also rebuilt the carbs...no issues whatsoever!    Ran smooth and like a top after that!!

[Mikecocos]

For anyone that is interested in doing this too, the most laborious and frustrating part of de-rusting the tank using a liquid solution has been trying to seal the compartment for the fuel pump. I felt that I needed to seal the hole in order to fill the tank with a critical amount of the de-rusting solution, as I was not comfortable leaving the fuel pump in the tank. I cut a piece of sheet metal to fit the hole and then tried to seal the edges using caulking. The seal isn't perfect and there is a steady trickle of de-rusting solution out of the tank. 

Unless there is a trick to doing this that I am not aware of, I am not sure  I would bother doing this again. I am leaning towards bringing the tank to a shop to have it de-rusted.