Author Topic: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport  (Read 5286 times)

Offline willowstreetguzziguy

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Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« on: January 09, 2018, 10:01:53 PM »
I figure it's time to replace the plastic fuel filter with a metal one. I've taken the gas tank off several times. I know how to disconnect everything and get it off. I've made sure there's not much fuel in there.

QUESTIONS...

1.) Once the tank is upside-down, how do I take out the filter?
2.) What type fuel filter to buy and where?
3.) Do I need any special tools to do the job?
4.) Should I replace anything else while I have it out?

Bonus Question...
5.) Is the fuel gauge device in there and can I modify it so reads more accurately on the dash?

THANKS
2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport 
1993 BMW K75S Pearl White (sold)
"Going somewhere isn't why you ride, riding is why you go!"    Moto Guzzi... because the only person I have to impress is me.

Offline Bisbonian

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 10:19:19 PM »
You’ll see a plate held on by bolts.
Get a wix 33032 or equivalent at your local parts store.
Get the correct size oetiker clamps, I may have spelled that wrong and I’m not sure of the size.

Offline ITSec

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2018, 10:48:47 PM »
I figure it's time to replace the plastic fuel filter with a metal one. I've taken the gas tank off several times. I know how to disconnect everything and get it off. I've made sure there's not much fuel in there.

QUESTIONS...

1.) Once the tank is upside-down, how do I take out the filter?
2.) What type fuel filter to buy and where?
3.) Do I need any special tools to do the job?
4.) Should I replace anything else while I have it out?

Bonus Question...
5.) Is the fuel gauge device in there and can I modify it so reads more accurately on the dash?

THANKS

1.) Once the tank is upside-down, how do I take out the filter?

The fuel pump assembly, including the filter, is removed by taking all of the machine screws out of the attachment plate. Then, withdraw the assembly by drawing it out about halfway, then make a 45-degree move and draw the rest out. You have to watch for where the bend is.

2.) What type fuel filter to buy and where?

If in the US, the most popular is from NAPA. The model number escapes me but others will chime in. Basically, almost any all metal filter with the correct size ports and dimensions will work, there's nothing special needed in terms of flow rate, etc.

3.) Do I need any special tools to do the job?

If you don't already own one, go buy quality Oetiker pliers and a kit with an assortment of Oetiker clamps. These are much better than the screw-tightened Tridon clamps for applications where the clamp will be left in place indefinitely.

4.) Should I replace anything else while I have it out?

Check the hoses running to and from the filter. If they look at all suspect, replace them with lengths of new hose. MAKE CERTAIN (!!!) you use hose that is certified for immersion in fuel if you do this. Most hose for fuel injection systems is NOT intended for use in the tank, you have to ask for it specifically.

Bonus Question...

5.) Is the fuel gauge device in there and can I modify it so reads more accurately on the dash?


The sensor for the gauge is in there, and it's not worth tampering with in my view unless it is wildly out of whack.
ITSecurity
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Offline willowstreetguzziguy

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2018, 11:59:45 PM »
MANY THANKS to both respondents !!!
2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport 
1993 BMW K75S Pearl White (sold)
"Going somewhere isn't why you ride, riding is why you go!"    Moto Guzzi... because the only person I have to impress is me.

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 01:10:56 AM »
On the topic of question #5.
My Norge is an '07 and my gauge was as bad as anyone's.
I started by taking out the unit and turning on the key while holding the unit upside down.
I found that the gauge would read "full" if the float was indeed at the top, (or bottom when inverted".)
That assured me that the electronics/electrics were ok.
Bear in mind that there can be up to a minute between movement of the float, and fluctuation of the needle, do not be in a hurry.
Next I filled a suitable container with fuel and immersed the unit progressively in the fuel a centimetre at a time and winessed the gauge progressively increasing on the dial, (bearing again in mind that you MUST allow time for the reading to be received and transmitted to the indicator)...
Also I removed the float, and smoothed the contacts where they slide on the rheostat, so there'd be no binding and erroneous readings.
I noticed that there was an airspace forming in the top of the unit and as a result, the float was not going all the way up, so I drilled a small 1/8" hole in the top and removed the small filter, thinking that when it gets blocked with shit the air would not be able to escape , ( notwithstanding that I'd bored a hole, but anyway..).
It has never been anything but reliable since, and incidentally, the yellow warning light comes on when there is 4 litres left. I've tested that many times and noted that if I fill up IMMEDIATELY the light illuminates, it always takes 19 litres.
It IS worth rooting around with..
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 01:13:05 AM by Huzo »

Offline Kev m

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 06:45:01 AM »
10 years sitting in ethanol, nice data point on the OEM filter paranoia!

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Offline Scott of the Sahara

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 07:47:33 AM »
I replaced my fuel filter on my '08 Norge.
Worst thing I ever did.
The little hose going to the filter wouldn't come off so I cut it off since my filter came with a piece of hose.
I didn't clamp it properly and it came off just after I filled it up.
Remove the tank again and clamp the hose.
Then I decided to replace that hose, good thing because it was real soft and about to come apart.
Found the right hose from NAPA and installed that. Then I looked up information on that hose and found it was wrong and not submersible.
I went to my MG dealer and bought a length of BMW hose for some outrageous price and did the whole thing again.
I should have left the damn thing alone.

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 03:43:27 PM »
I replaced my fuel filter on my '08 Norge.
Worst thing I ever did.
The little hose going to the filter wouldn't come off so I cut it off since my filter came with a piece of hose.
I didn't clamp it properly and it came off just after I filled it up.
Remove the tank again and clamp the hose.
Then I decided to replace that hose, good thing because it was real soft and about to come apart.
Found the right hose from NAPA and installed that. Then I looked up information on that hose and found it was wrong and not submersible.
I went to my MG dealer and bought a length of BMW hose for some outrageous price and did the whole thing again.
I should have left the damn thing alone.
Wrong answer mate !
You did yourself a big favour, now the bugger won't shit itself when a zillion miles from home, ( not for that reason anyway)..
Good for you I say, ignoring a potential problem will end up worse than inheriting a couple of temporary ones by doing preventative maintenance.
Same thing goes for startus interruptus, I decided not to do mine 'cos I'd never had an issue, and the bastard struck outside the damn Collosseum in Rome !
BTW, it's back home and I did the mod. :thumb: :wink:

Offline Markcarovilli

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 06:17:13 PM »
Wrong answer mate !
You did yourself a big favour, now the bugger won't shit itself when a zillion miles from home, ( not for that reason anyway)..
Good for you I say, ignoring a potential problem will end up worse than inheriting a couple of temporary ones by doing preventative maintenance.
Same thing goes for startus interruptus, I decided not to do mine 'cos I'd never had an issue, and the bastard struck outside the damn Collosseum in Rome !
BTW, it's back home and I did the mod. :thumb: :wink:

- best to take care of known issues as you said before they bite you in the butt....

Mark

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 08:24:17 PM »
- best to take care of known issues as you said before they bite you in the butt....

Mark
Touche'

Offline blackcat

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2018, 08:35:26 PM »
I changed the filter on my 07 Norge about 7 years ago, used regular run of the mill SS clamps and a Napa filter.
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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2018, 10:13:39 PM »
I changed the filter on my 07 Norge about 7 years ago, used regular run of the mill SS clamps and a Napa filter.
Must admit I did the same but didn't want to say so... :embarrassed:

Offline Scott of the Sahara

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2018, 11:33:49 PM »
What I should have done was pay the Dealer to replace it. It would have been done right the first time!

Offline willowstreetguzziguy

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2018, 12:26:50 AM »
The problem with the fuel gauge is that it stays pointed at the “Full” mark for the first 1.5 gallons are used and then it starts to move downward. At the 1/2 mark 3.75-4 gallons of the 6.1 are used. I would like to correct that so it indicates a more realistic reading... 1.5G used at the 1/4 mark , etc. If not, I can live with it.
2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport 
1993 BMW K75S Pearl White (sold)
"Going somewhere isn't why you ride, riding is why you go!"    Moto Guzzi... because the only person I have to impress is me.

Offline blackcat

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2018, 09:57:05 AM »
Must admit I did the same but didn't want to say so... :embarrassed:

I'm sure there is a logical reason for not utilizing those clamps but after all this time I'm OK with the choice. Probably time to replace the filter, so I will see how those clamps have held up.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2018, 10:10:59 AM »
The problem with the fuel gauge is that it stays pointed at the �Full� mark for the first 1.5 gallons are used and then it starts to move downward. At the 1/2 mark 3.75-4 gallons of the 6.1 are used. I would like to correct that so it indicates a more realistic reading... 1.5G used at the 1/4 mark , etc. If not, I can live with it.
FWIW, over the years I had a crapload of cars that did the same thing too. I don't know why the non-linear nature of some fuel gauges, but when tracking mileage you could see they remained full for nearly half a tank, then dropped faster and faster as they neared empty.

The solution was always simple, "get to know your vehicle" and eventually you can recalibrate your brain to know what to expect at each point on the gauge.
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Offline willowstreetguzziguy

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2018, 11:33:45 AM »
FWIW, over the years I had a crapload of cars that did the same thing too. I don't know why the non-linear nature of some fuel gauges, but when tracking mileage you could see they remained full for nearly half a tank, then dropped faster and faster as they neared empty.

The solution was always simple, "get to know your vehicle" and eventually you can recalibrate your brain to know what to expect at each point on the gauge.

That’s what I’ve done for four years. I figured since I’m going into the gas tank, might as well as if I could do any tweaking to make the gauge more realistic.
2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport 
1993 BMW K75S Pearl White (sold)
"Going somewhere isn't why you ride, riding is why you go!"    Moto Guzzi... because the only person I have to impress is me.

Offline Kev m

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2018, 11:53:55 AM »
That�s what I�ve done for four years. I figured since I�m going into the gas tank, might as well as if I could do any tweaking to make the gauge more realistic.

My SWAG is it is a design limitation on floats restrained by the length the float arm/shaft and the relative size/shape of the tank.

I.E.

The goal is to have a gauge that drops slowly and evenly corresponding with the actual fuel level in the tank as seen as a percentage of fullness/emptiness.

The challenge is how to do that with a mechanical device (float) that is designed to track the level in an irregularly shaped tank. The challenge is probably worsened by the fact that the float can't physically move from the actual top to the actual bottom of the tank.

So the float moves to the top of its travel when the tank is filled, but basically stays there a little too long as the fuel is consumed and the level starts to drop, but doesn't drop enough right away to start moving the float and moving the gauge.

Then since the gauge inaccurately continued to read full for some portion of time when it was not really full anymore, once the needle starts to move it will have to move quicker than is really representative.

And if the tank volume gets smaller as it gets towards the bottom of the tank (which considering the room necessary for the tunnel, and the pump, and any other odd shapes to the chamber is almost a certainty) then the physical level is actually going to drop faster, making the float and gauge drop even quicker.

Unless your particular gauge has some abnormality for the model (and I suspect that's not the case, unless the float shaft is damaged or sticking) then anything that could have been done to equalize the linear nature of the gauge was probably done at the manufacturer.

Or stated another way, it's just the nature of the beast.

I bet that in general automotive manufacturers have an easier time with this just based on the more predictable size/shape of their tanks. But if they get creative with the tank shape there's probably more of a chance of a gauge still acting this way.
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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2018, 01:40:18 PM »
FWIW, over the years I had a crapload of cars that did the same thing too. I don't know why the non-linear nature of some fuel gauges, but when tracking mileage you could see they remained full for nearly half a tank, then dropped faster and faster as they neared empty.

The solution was always simple, "get to know your vehicle" and eventually you can recalibrate your brain to know what to expect at each point on the gauge.
Just a thought on that one.
IF the sensor travels in an arc then the rate of change in fuel level, will not always equal the rate of sweep on the sensor.
The rotation will be greater at the start/end of your tank than half full.
Also the shape of the rank will be of some significance.
Also was going to let this one go but gave up trying...
The fuel level of the tank will not change due to lean angle of the bike when riding, but accelerations will make a temporary difference.

Offline ITSec

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2018, 01:44:08 PM »

My SWAG is it is a design limitation on floats restrained by the length the float arm/shaft and the relative size/shape of the tank.

I.E.

The goal is to have a gauge that drops slowly and evenly corresponding with the actual fuel level in the tank as seen as a percentage of fullness/emptiness.

The challenge is how to do that with a mechanical device (float) that is designed to track the level in an irregularly shaped tank. The challenge is probably worsened by the fact that the float can't physically move from the actual top to the actual bottom of the tank.


As an IT guy, I can see a way to handle this in software if the fuel level signal were sent to the ECU. One could develop a table that reflects the proportions of the tank, and run the signaled level against it before displaying the adjusted result. Not terribly difficult, as it wouldn't have to be very complex or even supremely accurate; it'd really just be turning an irregular curve into a more linear one.

Not that I think too many manufacturers will take the trouble unless their tank's design is wildly difficult to get a good reading on...
ITSecurity
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2018, 01:54:10 PM »
As an IT guy, I can see a way to handle this in software if the fuel level signal were sent to the ECU. One could develop a table that reflects the proportions of the tank, and run the signaled level against it before displaying the adjusted result. Not terribly difficult, as it wouldn't have to be very complex or even supremely accurate; it'd really just be turning an irregular curve into a more linear one.

Not that I think too many manufacturers will take the trouble unless their tank's design is wildly difficult to get a good reading on...

Makes sense. I assume you also have to incorporate logic that dampens the response of the gauge to the input from the sensor since the sensor arm/float is going to move up and down with movement of the vehicle (arguably even more so on bikes) and generally I think it's considered bad form for the tank needle to go back up on its own.  :wink:
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Offline willowstreetguzziguy

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2018, 05:15:30 PM »
My SWAG is it is a design limitation on floats restrained by the length the float arm/shaft and the relative size/shape of the tank.

I.E.

The goal is to have a gauge that drops slowly and evenly corresponding with the actual fuel level in the tank as seen as a percentage of fullness/emptiness.

The challenge is how to do that with a mechanical device (float) that is designed to track the level in an irregularly shaped tank. The challenge is probably worsened by the fact that the float can't physically move from the actual top to the actual bottom of the tank.

So the float moves to the top of its travel when the tank is filled, but basically stays there a little too long as the fuel is consumed and the level starts to drop, but doesn't drop enough right away to start moving the float and moving the gauge.

Then since the gauge inaccurately continued to read full for some portion of time when it was not really full anymore, once the needle starts to move it will have to move quicker than is really representative.

And if the tank volume gets smaller as it gets towards the bottom of the tank (which considering the room necessary for the tunnel, and the pump, and any other odd shapes to the chamber is almost a certainty) then the physical level is actually going to drop faster, making the float and gauge drop even quicker.

Unless your particular gauge has some abnormality for the model (and I suspect that's not the case, unless the float shaft is damaged or sticking) then anything that could have been done to equalize the linear nature of the gauge was probably done at the manufacturer.

Or stated another way, it's just the nature of the beast.

I bet that in general automotive manufacturers have an easier time with this just based on the more predictable size/shape of their tanks. But if they get creative with the tank shape there's probably more of a chance of a gauge still acting this way.

Very well explained. Tank Gauge 101. Thanks
2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport 
1993 BMW K75S Pearl White (sold)
"Going somewhere isn't why you ride, riding is why you go!"    Moto Guzzi... because the only person I have to impress is me.

Offline willowstreetguzziguy

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2018, 06:25:29 PM »
I think what I'll do when riding season rolls around rather than mess with the float is:

When it says 3/4 full, fill it up and see how many gallons it's down
Do the same at 1/2
And the same at 1/4
And when the light comes on ... that's usually with only 1 gallon left.
2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport 
1993 BMW K75S Pearl White (sold)
"Going somewhere isn't why you ride, riding is why you go!"    Moto Guzzi... because the only person I have to impress is me.

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Replacing Fuel Filter on '08 1200 Sport
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2018, 06:40:55 PM »
Just buy a good used one and swap out the gauge, now you got extra stuff. With a Guzzi you'll need extra stuff.
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