NGC - hard credit inquiries

[ohiorider]

We recently had a breaking and entering in our quiet little neighborhood.  I'd lived here for 26 years, friends have lived here for 35+ years.  No break-ins all that time.  However, I decided it was time to have a surveillance system installed.  I contacted ADT, and during the sign-up process, they indicated they were going to have to make a credit inquiry.  My credit is excellent, so I mentioned that hard inquiries can negatively affect credit scores.  Said they needed to do it.  It wasn't a catastrophe, but it did drop my score by 3-4 points.

Isn't it a pisser ............... that because a company makes an inquiry about your credit, the inquiry causes your score to drop.

Someone ought to bitch-slap these money grubbing sleaze-bags!

[normzone]

Don't worry. Soon they'll come up with an option for you to pay an additional charge to prevent the point drop.

[oldbike54]

 Bob , the only reason for a hard credit check is if you are applying for a loan . A soft credit check should suffice in this case , it really sounds like ADT is either not describing what they need properly, or they are ignorant of how this works .

 Dusty

[rodekyll]

How does ADT prevent a B&E?  We have so many car and home alarms going off all the time that I think everyone ignores them.  Unless the cops are already there, a crew could pick you over pretty well before there was a response.  Remember -- the alarm company gets fined if they make a false report, so they're going to waste precious minutes trying to verify the alarm before they send anyone, and the police dispatcher is going to want to double-check too.  By the time they've done all that and a car gets there the thieves are long gone.

In my mind it's like those credit monitoring companies.  They don't stop you from getting your identity stolen, they just tell you that it happened.

$0.02

[ohiorider]

Bob , the only reason for a hard credit check is if you are applying for a loan . A soft credit check should suffice in this case , it really sounds like ADT is either not describing what they need properly, or they are ignorant of how this works .

 Dusty

You may be correct.  Basically, with ADT, I'm under a 36 month contract, and they provide the hardware 'at no charge.'  So they may consider it a loan.  It isn't a huge deal, but just the concept of it frosts me!

Bob

[ohiorider]

How does ADT prevent a B&E?  We have so many car and home alarms going off all the time that I think everyone ignores them.  Unless the cops are already there, a crew could pick you over pretty well before there was a response.  Remember -- the alarm company gets fined if they make a false report, so they're going to waste precious minutes trying to verify the alarm before they send anyone, and the police dispatcher is going to want to double-check too.  By the time they've done all that and a car gets there the thieves are long gone.

In my mind it's like those credit monitoring companies.  They don't stop you from getting your identity stolen, they just tell you that it happened.

$0.02

David, I'm not even going to debate the point.  I get what you're saying.  But it's what I'm doing. 

Bob

[Gliderjohn]

Can't give you any details but it sounds like you can make up your own system pretty cheaply by buying your own cameras and detectors that Bluetooth to your phone. No monthly costs and you get to determine the actual threat level and response. My 2.5 cents worth.
GliderJohn

[blackcat]

We had an ADT system installed under the same terms, and then there was a problem. My local system, and yours may or may not,  ping the alarm system on a daily basis. In fact they only did it once a month, and that is the problem. In other words, if the system is working fine on the first of the month, and on day 2of the same month the system goes out for any reason, ADT doesn�t know there is a problem until the next time they check the system. So if the alarm goes off for a fire or a break in there is only the sound alarm, which doesn�t really mean anything. When my contract was up, I went to a local alarm company, which pings daily and it was cheaper than ADT.

[ohiorider]

We had an ADT system installed under the same terms, and then there was a problem. My local system, and yours may or may not,  ping the alarm system on a daily basis. In fact they only did it once a month, and that is the problem. In other words, if the system is working fine on the first of the month, and on day 2of the same month the system goes out for any reason, ADT doesn�t know there is a problem until the next time they check the system. So if the alarm goes off for a fire or a break in there is only the sound alarm, which doesn�t really mean anything. When my contract was up, I went to a local alarm company, which pings daily and it was cheaper than ADT.

Good point and something to ask the installer.  Thanks,

Bob

[fotoguzzi]

I have cameras that send me an email on motion detection.. then I would call police if I saw something other than my dog.. I can set the motion detection for a certain part of the frame above the dogs area where a man might walk in the door.
 I can watch it live too and even talk thru the camera.


added bonus I can keep an eye on her..

[JeffOlson]

^ We have a half dozen wireless Nest cameras scattered about, including near the doors. We receive notifications on our iPhones, as well as email notifications, if there is any activity. If we wanted to, we could even talk to the would-be burglars through the cameras. For a small fee, Nest will keep backups of the video feed.

No credit check necessary.

[Guzzi Gal]

I have cameras that send me an email on motion detection.. then I would call police if I saw something other than my dog.. I can set the motion detection for a certain part of the frame above the dogs area where a man might walk in the door.
 I can watch it live too and even talk thru the camera.


added bonus I can keep an eye on her..

That pup has such a hard life! 

We use the same kind of system, and will sometimes use it to talk to the kids (pup included) when they are home on their own.

[ITSec]

I worked my way through university largely funded by working weekends for ADT. That was a different company - in fact, back then they wouldn't even do residential unless you were a VIP with a corporate customer. It was commercial premises only. It was also a mix of punchtapes triggered by literally telegraph signals from watchmen, and old fashioned combinations of perimeter, tracewire, and other triggered alarms (remember that foil strip on the windows?). Back then you had to be an electrician with a gun permit to work for the company.

Worst thing that ever happened to that brand was the Tyco takeover, and the move to franchise the name to local monitoring companies who moved into the residential market. From my point of view, there is no 'ADT' any more and I wouldn't do business with the company. Each local or regional outfit does their own thing with no consistency or reliability of practice or service. If all you're paying for is monitoring, there are better and cheaper choices in most communities.

As for the credit pull, it can only be avoided by buying the equipment outright instead of on credit (think of it like getting a cell phone). Given that it's purely commodity gear these days, likely with no more than $500-1000 value for most installations, I don't know why they insist - but they can, and do.

[fotoguzzi]

sorry, thread drift...

That pup has such a hard life! 

missing our best pal Finn, gone almost a year now..

[Orange Guzzi]

Credit, what is that?  What is a credit score?  Last time I borrowed money was for a home purchase 25 years ago.  I have some credit card in a safety deposit box, I think. I grew up poor and was told to save for future needs.  I need a lot less than I have saved now.  That is good.   

I guess a credit score does serve a purpose.  It shows we are financially responsible.  Have positive cash flow.  Don't have unmanaged debt.  In default on bills from utilities or other biller's.  Saving us from having to make deposits against future billing from utilities like water, electric, gas, phone or insurance.  A few points change should not affect these types of relationships. 

There are a lot of security options options.   I will admit, I believe my property is not properly monitored.  I do have an alarm system in my home, but it is not monitored.  Several motion sensor lights.  Signs.  I live outside the City.  I have walked around the neighborhood in the daytime and in the dark (yard sizes average 6 acres) and can see how easy it is to break into someones property.  The homes are far apart.  We all go inside and close the curtain so no one can see inside with no consideration that we cannot see out either.  My Store has video with a hard drive and alarm, but is not monitored.  Some day I may regret procrastinating about updating my systems. 

An alarm system is only as good as the responds. I have heard the neighbors alarms go off for hours with no responds.  A dog that barks all the time is not a good alarm because we ignore the dog that cried wolf all the time.  I have been told on more than one occasion that the video recordings of illegal activity is not enough evidence to justify an arrest.  Being a nosey neighbor is a good approach.  Visit, talk with, share your schedule with them.  Let them know you are going out of town.  And a good insurance policy help me sleep better at night.  I would not recommend Vivint.  I have worked with this company in other areas outside of the alarm side.  They are more concerned with billing and new customers than your safety and security.  They are more of a clearinghouse of rebranded services.

[elvisboy77]

My credit score goes up and down a few points monthly, based on credit card balances, I guess.  I thought that unless you took out a new loan - mortgage, car, credit card etc- the score did not really matter.  Especially if your score goes from e.g. 780 to 785 or 775.  What difference does a few points make?

Just wondering as I have ignored the messages I get from mint.com about this.

[blackcat]

“An alarm system is only as good as the responds. I have heard the neighbors alarms go off for hours with no responds.”

If the system isn’t connected to a monitoring company, the alarm is almost worthless. We also have outside cameras that I monitor, but the most important asset IMO to the monitored alarm system is the fire alarm. If it goes off the fire dept will get there much faster than from me looking at the camera’s from my phone because I won’t know there is a problem until after the house is full or partially burned down, and then I can watch the re-run.

[Lannis]

Credit, what is that?  What is a credit score?  Last time I borrowed money was for a home purchase 25 years ago.  I have some credit card in a safety deposit box, I think. I grew up poor and was told to save for future needs.  I need a lot less than I have saved now.  That is good.   

I guess a credit score does serve a purpose.  It shows we are financially responsible.....

It's not so much that you are "financially responsible", it's "Are you borrowing enough so that we can make money off of you?"

I've haven't had any payments besides a house payment in 35 years, haven't had a house payment in 10, never have missed a payment, defaulted on a loan, anything.

But because I don't run a balance on my home equity LOC, because I pay my credit card that I use for internet purchases off EVERY DAY, and I've never carried a car payment ... my "credit score" is less than perfect, and fluctuates up and down even though I'm not applying for anything and not borrowing a cent.

A "credit score" has nothing to do with any good qualities YOUR financial management might have - it's an index to how "fleece-able" you are by the people in the business of lending you money.

Lannis

[blackcat]

".....it's an index to how "fleece-able" you are by the people in the business of lending you money."

If a lending institution is doing a credit search on an individual it is because that person has authorized that business to see if you are credit worthy. They want to see that you are currently paying a loan and you have acted responsibly. Yes, you may have paid off your home ten years ago, but what have you done now to indicate you are capable of currently paying a bill? 

Are the three credit bureaus always fair and accurate? Nope.

[Lannis]

".....it's an index to how "fleece-able" you are by the people in the business of lending you money."

If a lending institution is doing a credit search on an individual it is because that person has authorized that business to see if you are credit worthy.

Down in the bottom corner of the Dashboard screen that comes up on my On-Line Banking website, there's an ever-fluctuating "Credit Rating" display that I suppose my bank "authorizes" so that I can see what my credit rating is.   It's from "Equifax", it says.

I haven't "authorized" anything, unless somewhere in that pages-long "terms and conditions" agreement, I've authorized the bank to do "credit rating" displays for some reason of their own.

They tell me that the only way to "boost" my credit rating is to open more bank credit card accounts, run higher balances on them, and pay them all on time.   Yeah, right, there's a plan ...

My point is that even though I don't care what my "credit rating" is, even though I don't believe I'll ever need to borrow money again in my life, and even though I don't care what kind of financial "risk" I am, apparently SOMEONE cares,  and I don't know or care why - they can take a long walk off a short pier for all of me ....

Lannis

[blackcat]

Down in the bottom corner of the Dashboard screen that comes up on my On-Line Banking website, there's an ever-fluctuating "Credit Rating" display that I suppose my bank "authorizes" so that I can see what my credit rating is.   It's from "Equifax", it says.

I haven't "authorized" anything, unless somewhere in that pages-long "terms and conditions" agreement, I've authorized the bank to do "credit rating" displays for some reason of their own.

My point is that even though I don't care what my "credit rating" is, even though I don't believe I'll ever need to borrow money again in my life, and even though I don't care what kind of financial "risk" I am, apparently SOMEONE cares,  and I don't know or care why - they can take a long walk off a short pier for all of me ....

Lannis

And my point is that the only reason a business does a credit check is because some person is looking for a loan or a form of a loan as per the ADT search.  And if you change auto/motorcycle insurance companies or rent/lease an apartment,etc. those pursuits can be influenced by a credit rating.

If you do none of those things, than it isn't an issue.

[John A]

sorry, thread drift...
missing our best pal Finn, gone almost a year now..

Brad, with those mad killer dogs, nobody is going to try a break in !!

[Lannis]

And my point is that the only reason a business does a credit check is because some person is looking for a loan or a form of a loan as per the ADT search.  And if you change auto/motorcycle insurance companies or rent/lease an apartment,etc. those pursuits can be influenced by a credit rating.

If you do none of those things, than it isn't an issue.

Makes sense!

Lannis

[LowRyter]

I'm at a loss to understand any of this.

First, I sometimes forget to lock my house when I go to bed.  Sometimes I deliberately won't lock the house when running an errand like going to the store.  So all of this security stuff is over my head.

Next, I didn't know there were soft and hard credit inquiries.  Heck, why would your credit score change for using it and not abusing it much less checking it? 

I think these are areas where being ignorant is a good thing.   

[Wayne Orwig]

Credit, what is that?  What is a credit score? 

No idea.

[ITSec]

I'm at a loss to understand any of this.

I didn't know there were soft and hard credit inquiries.  Heck, why would your credit score change for using it and not abusing it much less checking it? 

'Soft' inquiries are generally ones done when no additional credit is being applied for - things like insurance company credit checks, background checks by employers, and so on. 'Hard' inquiries are ones where you are applying for additional credit or to increase your credit limit on an existing account. Hard inquiries always affect your credit rating in one way or another - they may not immediately result in a notable score difference, though. For example, several hard inquiries in a very short period have less impact than the same number of queries over a longer term. Why? The scoring system sees several together as (for example) shopping for the best car loan or mortgage. It presumes you are likely to only actually use one of those offers. Several queries spread apart by a few months each time is seen as a sign that you are digging a hole.

Companies like FICO (earlier known as Fair Isaac) have extensive algorithms to try and establish exactly how your behavior can be used to predict your future likelihood of being a good or bad credit risk. If you think the credit bureaus are a pain, the scoring companies (some of which are owned by the bureaus) are even more opaque and annoying.

[Lannis]

No idea.

I got this part though.

"Gold is the money of kings,
"Silver is the money of gentlemen,
"Barter is the money of peasants,
"Debt is the money of slaves."

My goal is somewhere in the middle ... !

Lannis

[JeffOlson]

Some people live in areas where they can leave their houses unlocked and their car keys in the ignition. God bless them! It used to be that way just about everywhere, even in Seattle when I was a young lad. No longer.

When we lived out in farm country, it seemed that no one locked their houses or their sheds. All of the farmers were armed, and the men folk on our loop would come out and "greet" any strangers they saw wandering about. No need for security systems.

Where we live now, out in the wilderness, there is a tweeker encampment in the woods a couple of miles away. The sheriff's department knows about them but does nothing. So we have a security system, and watchful neighbors, and personal "safety" devices...

[Orange Guzzi]

I received several e-mails in my spam and trash folder today after posting on this subject.  Several e-mails related to credit monitoring and credit reports.  Some bodies watching me?

It is even creepier when I have a discussion with someone about a topic and then adds and e-mails show up. 

[jbell]

It was explained to me awhile back that the reason your credit score drops after several inquiries is because it looks like you're getting turned down if you keep on checking.  True or not, I don't know but it kinda makes sense to me.