H4 LED headlight for Loop Frame and other classic Guzzi

[jas67]

I've got this combo in my Eldorado:

http://stores.advmonster.com/native-h4/

In this reflector assembly from MG Cycle:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_154&products_id=949

I am very pleased with the result. Both low and high beam are very good. Low beam has a good cutoff, high beam has a nice long reach to it!   Nice and bright, good to see by, and good to be seen.

Unlike many LED headlight replacements, this one fits just like a regular halogen bulb, with nothing extra sticking out the back, so, it will fit ANY headlight that takes an H4.

[rodekyll]

I have tried those types of bulbs in my 8" EV headlight and just about all the others that claim to convert a halogen headlight to LED or HID.  I've gone on about that in detail in the past -- won't do it again in this post.  I'll just say that I have there weatherhead bins full of binned bulbs and wasted money.  Right now I've got a proper LED conversion (trucklight) in one bike and don't care much for it, either.  Although well thought out in terms of lens and beam form, LED is notoriously monochromatic, so colors and contrast are hard for my brain to process, especially at night when I'm probably already getting fatigued.  I've decided LED is a blast of light far brighter than its cognitive usefullness.

After lengthy discussions with the engineers at DMM Tuning (my HID guys) abut WHY HID and LED conversions to halogen reflectors will never work or be DOT certified, I finally got a 2.5" HID projector and did a proper HID conversion to my existing EV headlight.  I made a Lexan centering disk 7.5" in diameter and 1/4" thick.  The center hole is 2.75"  With the edge wrapped with fender trim the centering disk is a perfect fit in the 8" ring.   The projector is a slight interference fit (determined hand persuasion) and the lens protrudes from the disk.  I stabilized the rear of the projector with a 2.5" metal jar lid, centerpunched to a diameter that screwed onto the threaded rear projector lug.  I used rubber weatherstripping to make a good sealing contact against the back of the headlight bucket.  I adjusted the jar lid depth of the projector lug until it snugged up to the headlight bucket and secured the back of the projector.  Once I had the disk cut, the rest of the project took about half an hour.  The headlight was already wired for HID, so the projector conversion was a drop-in.





The projector fits in my hand.  You wouldn't think that something that tiny could be that fierce.






I used opaque black Lexan, but I could have used transparent white or other color, or clear plastic for the disk.  If I did I could backlight it for a DLR using the parking light bulb.  A mirror finish would have been fun, too.  The spots on the disk are bugs.  I think the entire thing would look better in a longer, smaller diameter headlight bucket, such as the loops had.  I might find me one.  Remember -- this is an 8" headlight which makes the 2.5" projector look small.  The visible ring of the disk is about 2.25" wide.  Your black area will be less -- about 1.75".  That thinner ring and smaller OD will make the projector look bigger.  To help visualize -- the aux lights have the same 2.5" projectors as the main light, but they look much bigger because of the size of their centering disks and housings.
 An interesting detail is that slightly yellow tinge at the aux light rims.  Those are switchback turn signals, also called "angel eyes" or "halo's".  When off they aren't really noticeable. When my main switch is on they become startlingly-white daylight running lights.  When I use my blinkers the appropriate side switches to amber blinking, and when I stop the blinker it switches back to white.



There are several temperatures and two common wattages of HID from my source.  You can get from 3500K (fog light yellow) to 6000K (harsh, bluish-white).  I go with 4500K which has a warm tinge.  You can also get 35w and 55w ballasts for the same bulb.  The bulbs ignite to a single intensity, dictated by the wattage.  The actual color shifts toward yellow at 55w.  High beams are achieved via a "barn door" (to use projector terms -- it's sort of a gate).  For low beam the door is up, blocking some of the light.  Since projectors throw a very precise beam, the cutoff at the door is very abrupt.  It is quite easy to aim the headlight by moving the sharp edge of light where you want it; above there be darkness.  When you switch the brights, a solenoid drops the door and you project through the entire lens.  Holy smokes!  I'd been using the same bulb temperature and wattage in an H4 conversion to the halogen lens and thought I really had something (although I was "that guy" coming at you at night regardless of where I aimed the beam).  In the projector the improvement is astonishing.

My supplier has two projector lens choices.  One is a general purpose headlight with a good periphery and downrange beam.  The other is a spotlight/driving light and sacrifices a little peripheral light for VERY effective downrange performance.  I'm running the V2 (general purpose) for my main beam, another V2 on the shoulder-side aux light and a V3 (spotlight) on the left.  All have hi/low capability and dip with the same switch.  The combination owns the night.

I'm running the main headlight at 35w.  Although the aim is tame enough to not bother oncoming traffic at 55w,  the higher wattage is just too much.  For example. the reflection from highway signs is intense enough to hurt and affect vision for several seconds -- like a continuous flashbulb going off until the sign falls out of the beam.  At 35w I've got much more light than a halogen, and it is placed better.  When I want more, the aux lights are 55w.  When those guys heat up (takes about 20sec to come up to full intensity), I can bbq a moose from far enough away that it's ready to eat when I get there.  I can see road paint and markings from as far away as I could see all that in the daylight.  But when I dim them nobody minds that they are on. 

So you folks might consider a modest investment and an hour or so of arts and crafts and get some real, real useful light for the same as or less than the wattage you're currently using.

[Fontain25]

Going to try the Native H4 on my Ambassador. Thanks for the tip - been looking for something like this!

[nick949]

Ugh! Both my Eldo and Convert have sealed beam headlights. I guess I have to fork over for a new H4 style headlight before I can go LED. 

Nick

[arveno]

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_154&products_id=5025

fit stock loop headlight .

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Ugh! Both my Eldo and Convert have sealed beam headlights. I guess I have to fork over for a new H4 style headlight before I can go LED. 

Nick

On the Eldo you need to be careful when buying - a reflector too deep will have the headlight plug knocking the fuses out. The Autopal unit Jay bought from MG Cycle is just right, no depth issues. I used one in "Barney" and also in my Convert.

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_154&products_id=5025

fit stock loop headlight .

I've been eyeing that unit for the Convert, but I really don't ride that much at night (usually only at rally's, back to the motel). So, I think I'll stick with the Autopal reflector and LED bulb I bought on Amazon. That combo works very well, so I'll save the extra $145 for my V700 project. 

[arveno]

On the Eldo you need to be careful when buying - a reflector too deep will have the headlight plug knocking the fuses out. The Autopal unit Jay bought from MG Cycle is just right, no depth issues. I used one in "Barney" and also in my Convert.

I've been eyeing that unit for the Convert, but I really don't ride that much at night (usually only at rally's, back to the motel). So, I think I'll stick with the Autopal reflector and LED bulb I bought on Amazon. That combo works very well, so I'll save the extra $145 for my V700 project. 

I think i did not get it ....

lets try again .
the below headlight lens fits stock ambo /eldo headlight bucket ?

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_154&products_id=949


If yes , now i see .... it cost a lot less than the whole unit i posted before . Good to know then , i am going to try it out .

thanks

M

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I think i did not get it ....

lets try again .
the below headlight lens fits stock ambo /eldo headlight bucket ?

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_154&products_id=949


If yes , now i see .... it cost a lot less than the whole unit i posted before . Good to know then , i am going to try it out .

thanks

M

It appears to be the same unit I used in "Barney", and if it is, then it will fit.

[F-22]

These LED H4 bulbs without any heat sinks will heat up considerably. It is better to use the ones with copper strands or even a fan. All the "higher quality" expensive branded LED bulbs have some way to remove the heat, so I assume the cheapest chinese ones which have nothing are not really reliable or may work at really high temperatures (perhaps high enough to melt some electrical insulation if left on some time while the bike is not moving).

[jas67]

These LED H4 bulbs without any heat sinks will heat up considerably. It is better to use the ones with copper strands or even a fan. All the "higher quality" expensive branded LED bulbs have some way to remove the heat, so I assume the cheapest chinese ones which have nothing are not really reliable or may work at really high temperatures (perhaps high enough to melt some electrical insulation if left on some time while the bike is not moving).

The ADVMonster Native does have a heatsink, it just happens to reside inside the reflector housing.    Considering that most all headlight buckets are closed, I wouldn't think that the cooling would be any worse on the bulb side of the reflector than behind it.

It certainly shouldn't cause any risk of melting electrical connections.   Total power being dissipated is about half that of a halogen H4, thus, half the heat -- actually less, as a higher % of the energy is converted to visible light.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

The ADVMonster Native does have a heatsink, it just happens to reside inside the reflector housing.    Considering that most all headlight buckets are closed, I wouldn't think that the cooling would be any worse on the bulb side of the reflector than behind it.

It certainly shouldn't cause any risk of melting electrical connections.   Total power being dissipated is about half that of a halogen H4, thus, half the heat -- actually less, as a higher % of the energy is converted to visible light.

The bulb I use has a tiny fan on the underside of the heatsink, sounds like a tiny turbine when running. Even during 90+ degree days this past Summer, the headlight lens was barely warm, so melting anything isn't a concern IMO.

[rodekyll]

Remember that LED gets hot o the back of the bulb, not the front.  You can handle the light-emitting end of the bulb comfortably when the back is too hot to touch.  So judging the heat of the bulb by the heat of the lens might not be a good test. 

When I was experimenting with hi/low LED headlight bulbs the first two failed within a few hours of operation due to the heat.  After the first failure I used a hole saw on the rear of the headlight bucket (EV) to vent the bulb.  When that passive venting didn't help longevity I went to the fan type, which was much longer and stuck out the hole I made.  The fan failed, probably from weather, in a couple of months.  As it was getting quite expensive to replace these bulbs every few miles, I gave up and bought HID for the trike and a complete DOT sealed-beam LED for the Convert. 

[F-22]

In that case, I will buy one to try it out. I am afraid on some bikes with brushless alternators, that if you have a lot more power produced than consumed, it will make the stator and the regulator heat up more (but I am no electrician to be certain about these things) because the (shunt) regulator essentially shorts out the excess power to convert it into heat. Not much of a problem on a Guzzi (or BMW) where the regulator works differently (I think in a way it powers down the electromagnets and actually directly makes the generator produce less power, instead of wasting excess power into heat).

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If the back of the bulb (where the terminals are) were heating up, it would have long ago melted the cheese-plastic original Guzzi plug. It hasn't.

I installed this (RTD M11M-H4) LED bulb in June 2017/8k miles ago and it hasn't failed yet, nor do I expect it to. If it does, I can pop it out and another one in quickly and easily.

[rodekyll]

I think you're overthinking it, F-22.  Running with the headlight off doesn't kill an alternator or regulator, so running with an LED headlight drawing half the wattage of a Halogen shouldn't be an issue, either.  Also, folks recover a lot of wasted power by converting all their lights to LED.  Then they use the savings to run heated gear and stuff like that.  They can easily have a 10-amp variance in load, depending.  But loading and unloading the alternator with the heated gear doesn't kill a properly working charging system, either.

[rodekyll]

If the back of the bulb (where the terminals are) were heating up, it would have long ago melted the cheese-plastic original Guzzi plug. It hasn't.

I installed this (RTD M11M-H4) LED bulb in June 2017/8k miles ago and it hasn't failed yet, nor do I expect it to. If it does, I can pop it out and another one in quickly and easily.

*shrug*  It's easy to disprove me.  If you have an IR temperature gun, warm up the bulb for an hour and sample the front and back of the bulb.