Something you Cali 1400 owners won�t want to hear.....

[pete roper]

Thanks, but none are needed. If it saves people trouble and/or money and their bikes are safer that’s all the thanks and reward I require. I just happen to be in the enviable position of having a lot of opportunity to discover stuff like this because it’s my JOB!

In many ways it’s a king sized pain in the arse because it must seem that all I ever do is spread doom and gloom but the fact remains that if there are problems it’s best to know about them!

Perhaps I should add on a brighter note that of our four or five regular Cali 14 customers, apart from old mate who had his wiring loom eaten by rats,(!) they have all been stone axe reliable! For all of the Luddite hand wringing about the complexity of the electronics and canbus systems the Cali series just seem to work and plod along with no issues other than loose nuts and bolts and the occasional blown globe! Oh, I did sell one that had a duff alternator which was a bit dull and fitting accessories, (A job I truly detest at the best of times!) can be a challenge, overall they seem to be a happy thing!

Pete

[Ncdan]

NcDan, were you speaking with the Guzzi dealer down near Charlotte? I'm sure you've probably aware, but there's a new dealer in Greensboro, and I've heard a few good things about them, so it might be worth talking to their service manager there also. They are an established shop that handles Indian, Motus and until recently, Victory. The owner also operates the shop a few blocks away that sells Triumph, Royal Enfield, Vespa, and a few other smaller brands as well.

https://indianmotorcyclegreensboro.com/

Thanks Steve, yea I heard there is now a guzzi dealer and I plan to confront the service manager with this information and see if they have received anything from the factory reps. With this many confirmed cases I would like an answer from the manufacturer as to why a recall has not been issued already. I love Guzzis but the support sucks!!

[LowRyter]

Just to be clear on this as there seems to be a bit of confusion I�m not talking about wheel bearings or anything in the Bevelbox/final drive area, I�m talking about the bearings that the swingarm pivots on in the frame.

To get to them, especially on a bike with bags, is a BIG job. Exhausts off, bags off, then there are lots of covers and hocus-pocus that have to be removed before you can access the swingarm spindle which works the same way and uses the same bearings as the CARC bikes.

Yes, it would obviously be best to combine the inspection with other work like a tyre change but the amount of time/money saved is not going to be large in the overall scheme of things.

Problem will also be that with a virtually new bike the chances are that if it is taken apart the bearings won�t of had time to go rusty! No doubt some shops will take great pleasure in telling owners who ask for them to be inspected and re-packed the job was �Un-necessary�. Believe me, it�s not. The small wisp of grease the bearings come with from their manufacturer is NOT sufficient to protect them in service. They need to be stuffed to the max, preferably with a marine grade �Waterproof� grease.

Pete

Pete, for sure, you shouldn't be a shrinking violet (violent?).

By all means, make yourself clear.   

[pete roper]

My guess Dan will be that if there is any response it will be that this sort of thing should be checked at PD or the first service.

A few years ago I had a Bellagio that�s steering head bearings had turned into a clump of rust in six months. I slapped in a warranty claim and it was knocked back because the service schedule states that the steering head bearings should be �Checked� at the first service. I, foolishly obviously, had always assumed that �Checking� meant inspecting for play or notchiness, apparently not! It seems that at 800km the factory thinks it is legitimate to ask the customer as part of the first service to completely strip the steering out of their brand new bike! I laffed a lot! Yes, I could of pursued it but it was only a pair of shitty 32205 bearings and a couple of hours work soi just did it, told the owner and he bought me a very nice bottle of single malt. A Glenmorangie from memory? Yummy! Happy ending for all concerned!

Pete

[boatdetective]

I don't know about the rest of you- but I hardly made it past "as dry as a nun's chuff."  Mr. Roper- you do realize that you are going to make it into heaven solely for the entertainment factor.

BTW- I can back up Pete on this. My 2007 Griso and 2008 1200S both had dry swingarm bearings and drive shaft splines.

[Ncdan]

Dan, let�s be quite clear about this, there isn�t and never will be any kind of service bulletin regarding an issue like this because greasing bearings on assembly is just such a basic thing one assumes it is just done right!

Likewise workshops won�t know about this sort of thing unless they have reason to go in and find out about it! I don�t have x-ray vision or second sight! I wasn�t aware of the absence of grease issue on the CARC bikes until I started to have to pull them apart for other problems like the leaky rear main bearing flange on early 8V�s and fitting aftermarket shocks for people. If you�re running the sort of shop where �Servicing� involves an oil change and maybe a filter? If you�re really lucky a valve lash check and a look at the tyre pressures then until a bearing fails catastrophically the shop won�t know anything about a problem! That doesn�t mean it isn�t there. I know from experience that the bearings can get pretty bloody bad before some people notice any problem! The first 1200 Sport I pulled the swingarm on the bearings came out minced! The cage had completely disintegrated and most of the rollers had turned to dust! The owner did say after the fact that he thought the back end hadn�t been feeling �Quite right� for a while!

Look, whether people choose to act on our findings is entirely up to them. These are critically important bearings though and the idea of finding myself sitting atop 270kg of lumbering �Cruiser� and suddenly having the rear wheel drop out of alignment after hitting a bump at speed is not something I�d want to contemplate. In fact thinking about the consequences should be enough to make a bit of wee escape from anyone who understands the rudimentaries of single track vehicle design and the laws of physics!

Yes it�s stupid and shameful that the bearings aren�t packed properly at the factory, (Believe me Guzzi isn�t Robinson Crusoe in this regard!) but bitching about it through your wired up jaw from traction in your hospital bed isn�t going to fix the problem or make it go away! Far better to just get it done and if the bearings are found to have a tonne of grease in them you can come back here and tell everyone what an idiot I am and the haters can all have a little gloat!

Pete

I’m sure checking it is essential. Now school a bit. Exactly where is the bearing and how do I or someone get to it. I thought we were talking about the rear wheel bearing like you encounter when changing out the back tire, is this the bearing in question?

[Muzz]

After reading one of your earlier posts Pete about no grease in the swingarm bearings I have taken the opportunity while the box is out of the Breva to stuff the bearings full of grease, along with the mandatory grease of the splines. A stitch in time so as to speak.

[beetle]

I�m sure checking it is essential. Now school a bit. Exactly where is the bearing and how do I or someone get to it. I thought we were talking about the rear wheel bearing like you encounter when changing out the back tire, is this the bearing in question?

Danny, he's talking about the swing arm bearings. Item 7.

[Huzo]

When inserting the spindle in from right to left as viewed in the diagram, it is the seal#7 that drifts into the gap between the race #8 on the UJ side.
The void is about 6 mm wide and that's where the seal falls into unless there's a spacer.

[pete roper]

Some pics, I hope.



Note that the factory ape put the seal in back to front as well as forgetting to pack the bearings!





Poor old thing!

[Ncdan]

Danny, he's talking about the swing arm bearings. Item 7.

Thanks Mark, you always have a way of explaining things I can understand, even without Lisa😂

[Lannis]

Danny, he's talking about the swing arm bearings. Item 7.

Maybe I'm just buggy-eyed, but that picture doesn't look right to me .... On the picture, look what "7" and "8" are pointed to on the two sides .... ?

Lannis

[pete roper]

It’s right. What is it that looks odd to you?

(Edit.) Sorry, I see what you mean. They’ve just mixed up the numbering that’s all.

Pete

[beetle]

Yes, they've mucked up the numbering. I was originally only going to post the diagram, but added the parts list when I saw the mistake.

[Tom]

Thanks for clarifying.  I thought the parts to the numbers were off too but wasn't sure of asking.  "That does like a large seal." 

[Lannis]

Thanks for clarifying.  I thought the parts to the numbers were off too but wasn't sure of asking.... 

That doesn't slow me down.   I'll just ask - if I get smacked down, well, sticks and stones applies doubly on line ... !

Lannis

[Huzo]

That doesn't slow me down.   I'll just ask - if I get smacked down, well, sticks and stones applies doubly on line ... !

Lannis

Was just about to post the same thing and (luckily) read yours first Lannis.
One hopes people have not become "afraid to ask"...!

[Tom]

Not pertaining to the current posts but I don't (like) cyber bullying.   :laugh (edited)

[Huzo]

Not pertaining to the current posts but I don't cyber bullying.   :laugh

Did you leave out the word "do" or "like" in your post..?

[Lannis]

Not pertaining to the current posts but I don't cyber bullying.   :laugh

Never have understood the "cyber bullying" thing, among kids or otherwise.

How can anyone possibly be "cyber bullied"?    I mean, real physical bullying, I can see how that works; someone actually stands in front of you and threatens to hurt you, and you have to deal with it or not go to school, get off the playground, give up your lunch, whatever.    That can be real.

But "CYBER" bullying?   All you have to do is swipe the screen, or hit the little ONOFF switch, and the threat is gone.   Never have to see it again.    It happens in a fake world, which disappears in a "poof" if you decide to .... What kind of masochistic addict would go back INTO a place that upsets and hurts them?

Seems simple to me.   But I'm sure it's actually very complicated and there's some very good reason why people HAVE to be driven to depression and pain by "cyber bullying".    I don't need to know what it is, though.

And now, back to dry 1400 swingarm bearings, something which is just about as weird in the "WHY?" department but apparently a lot easier to solve!

Lannis

[Kev m]

Lannis bud are you purposely being obtuse on this or do you not remember high school?

You can delete and not read online all you want but if a kid is ridiculed online in a way that basically everyone in his/her school can see do you not see the possible ramifications?

When we grew up if a kid was teased or ridiculed it was likely in front of less than a dozen peers.

Now there's the potential for the embarrassment to be for the entire school and more.

I'm not saying a kid SHOULD care or shouldn't be taught to have a strong enough self-image that they can withstand such things. But the truth is that not everyone will or can.

So a simple mistake that might have led to a single red face and ten minutes of embarrassment could now lead to days or weeks of such.

[Tom]

My reference is not to any one posting on this thread.  Huzo, I corrected my post.  The reference to cyber bullying is to one who should remain nameless at this point. 

[Ncdan]

I’m not sure what I missed but I just want to know if it takes any special tools to get the bearings out of the swing and so as to do the D@&$ job the Italian bike builders should have done right in the first place!!!😡

[Lannis]

I�m not sure what I missed but I just want to know if it takes any special tools to get the bearings out of the swing and so as to do the D@&$ job the Italian bike builders should have done right in the first place!!!😡

If it's like the Stelvio, the bearings sort of fall out into your hand after the spindle and nuts are removed ....

Lannis

[Huzo]

To do it right on a Norge or similar, there's is an expanding conical type device that can be used to extract the outer race.
Otherwise it's tap it out from the other side with a drift.

[pete roper]

The cones do, the races? Not so much.

The early CARC bikes are an absolute bastard in this regard as the only way to get at the race was by two tiny reliefs in the register at three and nine o�clock. They looked as if they were designed for  some sort of small internal puller but I couldn�t find one to do the job and there is no �Special Tool� from the factory.

Luckily later models have larger �Half moon� cutaways at twelve and six o�clock and Michael has ground up a special punch for just this job. Three whacks with a BFH and they�re out and then the old race can be used as a drift to push the new one in. Simples.

Pete

[Lannis]

To do it right on a Norge or similar, there's is an expanding conical type device that can be used to extract the outer race.
Otherwise it's tap it out from the other side with a drift.

I was thinking of the roller bearings themselves, assuming that they're not ruined and have to be replaced with the races, in which case yes, extractor or drift.

If they're still rolling, however ...

Lannis

[Kev m]

Yeah in what world do you remove bearings with a puller or drift and NOT replace them?!?

I thought you were saying to access them and pack them with grease as best you can while still installed?

[Huzo]

The cones do, the races? Not so much.

The early CARC bikes are an absolute bastard in this regard as the only way to get at the race was by two tiny reliefs in the register at three and nine o�clock. They looked as if they were designed for  some sort of small internal puller but I couldn�t find one to do the job and there is no �Special Tool� from the factory.

Luckily later models have larger �Half moon� cutaways at twelve and six o�clock and Michael has ground up a special punch for just this job. Three whacks with a BFH and they�re out and then the old race can be used as a drift to push the new one in. Simples.

Pete

Remember that jigger I broke in London Pete.
That thing that my toolmaker produced to replace it, is the expanding jigger that the extractor pulls on.
Paul (Corsa Italiana), tells me they are a factory kit of various sizes.
Quite an assortment when you look into the box.

[sidecarnutz]

In the almost 30 years I've been riding and wrenching Guzzi's, None of them has ever shown a sign of ever having anything greased by the factory. Dry splines, steering head and swing arm bearings, dry hub in the cush drive........ I always thought the reason for it was the factory workers didn't want to get their hands dirty assembling anything. On my 2000 V11S that I bought new in the crate, I found the bike had not only been assembled dry of all grease, they had used red locktite on the rear hubs bolts to try to make sure that NO ONE would ever be able to open it up and find out what they did. Then they also only engaged the tanks petcock with one half of one  thread to ensure it would fall out dumping gasoline all over my shop that first night. Thankfully no fire as the fumes in the morning were outrageous.

I swear to God that the Ural I bought shortly after that had been assembled at the factory with more care than that V11S had ever been.

With every Guzzi I have ever owned,  the rule has become to always tear it all done myself to make sure it was done right. They have brilliant engineering and machining, but the quality of assembly has been the worst of any vehicles I have owned. Just my own personal experience.