Author Topic: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.  (Read 921 times)

Offline WP2

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No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« on: May 29, 2018, 12:58:56 PM »
Bike is a 2003 EV-T.

Both issues began at approximately the same time which makes me think they are related. Maybe just coincidental?

Used to be able to start it with the sidestand down and the engine would kill when put into gear with the stand down now the stand must be up to even start it. Doable but a nuisance.

Neutral light is intermittent telling me that the bulb is OK but not always being activated when in neutral.

Reaching out to the guys that know...a little confusing to me.

Thanks..

Walt
'02 Stone
'03 EVT
Jenison, Michigan
MGNOC

Offline Testarossa

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2018, 01:14:08 PM »
If I'm not mistaken, the neutral switch takes power off the same circuit that goes to the sidestand safety switch, so I'd start there. They're both powered by a relay but I don't know where the relay is on your bike.

Sometimes flickering lights are due to a corroded ground.
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2018, 03:06:54 PM »
You need to fix the neutral switch or disable it all together
You will find the switch on the LH side of gearbox
It's also possible you have a loose wire between the switch and the relay area.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1998_EV.gif  [##]
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_EV_Catalytic.gif  (##)
I'm not certain which is the right schematic for your bike but the Neutral Switch [13] (12) and Stand switch [38](35) usually share a relay, either one or other must be closed to power up the Sidestand relay [36] or ECU relay (52)
Sometimes one is just across the relay contact, there are several variations but the idea is the same.

Start by grounding out the wire on the Neutral switch, it should turn the light on and allow the bike to start. (knowing this there is no fear of being stranded)
The neutral switch is sometimes as simple as a brass contact that makes with a bump on the shift drum, yours might have a sprung loaded arrangement but still very simple.

 
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 03:41:43 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2018, 03:46:54 PM »
As KR says, it may be nothing more than a loose/corroded connection at the neutral switch itself. Those switches are known to fail, so it *may* be the switch. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes to find out.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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Offline WP2

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2018, 01:05:26 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm taking them one by one. Relays are easiest so I replaced and not the solution.

Neutral switch is next. Being a bling'd EV-T it has the chrome cover hiding the switch and aggravating me. Can't figure how to get it off to gain access. Is there a method? Right now it's fiddle, cuss, beer, repeat. There has to be something I'm doing wrong, what?

Thanks.

Walt
'02 Stone
'03 EVT
Jenison, Michigan
MGNOC

Online LowRyter

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 01:27:21 PM »
you night play with the connector on the neutral sensor on the transmission.  It's on shifter side on the 6 speed, not sure about the Cali.

Don't ask how I know.  But I have a similar story that could be related.
John L  (Guzzi's Chime at 9AM & Midnight)

Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 05:18:43 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm taking them one by one. Relays are easiest so I replaced and not the solution.

Neutral switch is next. Being a bling'd EV-T it has the chrome cover hiding the switch and aggravating me. Can't figure how to get it off to gain access. Is there a method? Right now it's fiddle, cuss, beer, repeat. There has to be something I'm doing wrong, what?

Thanks.

Walt

The bling cover is held on with a spring clip, but to get it off the starter needs taken off the bell housing. I don't recall for sure, but I think you can just rotate it enough to remove the cover. If you elect to attempt this without disconnecting the battery, take care not to ground out the big wire on attached to the starter.

John Henry
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and the flying motor singing.
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Offline StuCorpe

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2018, 06:28:16 PM »
I had to pull the one on my 03 EV in a rainstorm on a mountain road, it was a royal pain to get off but eventually it does come loose.  Then the problem turned out to be the sidestand switch, which is much easier to get at.  I cut the wire to the sidestand switch where it runs up the frame on the front left side, spliced the wires together and haven't had any problems in the 10 years since doing that.  Good luck!

Offline WP2

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2018, 10:58:42 AM »
I had to pull the one on my 03 EV in a rainstorm on a mountain road, it was a royal pain to get off but eventually it does come loose.  Then the problem turned out to be the sidestand switch, which is much easier to get at.  I cut the wire to the sidestand switch where it runs up the frame on the front left side, spliced the wires together and haven't had any problems in the 10 years since doing that.  Good luck!

A couple rides ago, everything worked as it should. When parking I put it in to neutral, the light came on and light came on and when I put the sidestand down it didn't kill the engine. As I said - this is intermittent and frustrating. My biggest fear is being stranded along the road somewhere remote.

I've rotated the bling cover enough to be able to wiggle the connection to the neutral switch - same issues remain.

Stu's post made me thing that I may be looking in the wrong area. Does the sidestand switch affect whether the neutral light will come on?

I'm totally intimidated by the electrical stuff and appreciate the help and suggestions from the WG community - thank you all.

Walt








'02 Stone
'03 EVT
Jenison, Michigan
MGNOC

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2018, 11:46:21 PM »
A couple rides ago, everything worked as it should. When parking I put it in to neutral, the light came on and light came on and when I put the sidestand down it didn't kill the engine. As I said - this is intermittent and frustrating. My biggest fear is being stranded along the road somewhere remote.

I've rotated the bling cover enough to be able to wiggle the connection to the neutral switch - same issues remain.

Stu's post made me thing that I may be looking in the wrong area. Does the sidestand switch affect whether the neutral light will come on?

I'm totally intimidated by the electrical stuff and appreciate the help and suggestions from the WG community - thank you all.

Walt
The neutral and side stand are wired in parallel, they can easily be bypassed if they fail. When I had an EV I sketched out a simple drawing that showed where all the wires connect to the relays, if I knew exactly which schematic I could do one for you.


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72 Eldorado
07 Griso 1100
17 V7iii Special

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Offline WP2

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2018, 08:41:22 AM »
The neutral and side stand are wired in parallel, they can easily be bypassed if they fail. When I had an EV I sketched out a simple drawing that showed where all the wires connect to the relays, if I knew exactly which schematic I could do one for you.


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That would be much appreciated. What do you need from me? Schematic?

Thanks!

'02 Stone
'03 EVT
Jenison, Michigan
MGNOC

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2018, 08:51:41 AM »
That would be much appreciated. What do you need from me? Schematic?

Thanks!
Yes a copy of the schematic from the handbook that came with the bike
a picture of the relay area
I'll send you a PM
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/sportissimo.html
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07 Griso 1100
17 V7iii Special

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since 1921

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2018, 10:16:51 AM »
A couple rides ago, everything worked as it should. When parking I put it in to neutral, the light came on and light came on and when I put the sidestand down it didn't kill the engine. As I said - this is intermittent and frustrating. My biggest fear is being stranded along the road somewhere remote.

I've rotated the bling cover enough to be able to wiggle the connection to the neutral switch - same issues remain.

Stu's post made me thing that I may be looking in the wrong area. Does the sidestand switch affect whether the neutral light will come on?

I'm totally intimidated by the electrical stuff and appreciate the help and suggestions from the WG community - thank you all.

Walt

I've seen that style switch fail. Not real cheap for what it is. I THINK your 2003 has the new style switch. Screw it out, and try to clean it. And of course make sure the connector is tight.

It is wired so the sidestand switch does NOT turn on the light. But the neutral switch does allow the sidestand to go out with the motor running. There is a diode between the neutral switch and the sidestand if I recall.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientist have discovered...."

Offline WP2

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Re: No neutral light and won't start or idle on sidestand.
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2018, 07:15:39 PM »
I've seen that style switch fail. Not real cheap for what it is. I THINK your 2003 has the new style switch. Screw it out, and try to clean it. And of course make sure the connector is tight.

It is wired so the sidestand switch does NOT turn on the light. But the neutral switch does allow the sidestand to go out with the motor running. There is a diode between the neutral switch and the sidestand if I recall.

Thanks all! The issue is solved. As Wayne instructed, I took the neutral switch out and cleaned it - better, but still intermittent issues - a buddy had a new one on his shelf and I snagged it. It's in and it's all systems go. In the process I took the opportunity to clean and vaseline the contacts on the fuse/relay panel and any other electrical area that I came across.

I appreciate everybody's input - there is education in each response and I learned a bit more about the bike and how things work and relate. Hopefully, I will remember the solutions and suggestions when it fails in another 53,000 miles.

Thanks again to all - WildGuzzi rocks.

Walt

'02 Stone
'03 EVT
Jenison, Michigan
MGNOC

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