Author Topic: Unethical business practices (Read 7045 times)

larrys · « **on:** May 31, 2018, 07:13:57 AM »

I recently ordered a part for my Cal 1100 from a business, whom I shall not name at this time. My order was accepted, my method of payment was accepted, my order confirmed, and I have a printed copy of the confirmed order. A day later, I receive an unsigned email from said business stating that there has been a price upgrade, and they want more money, to the tune that the price of the item has more than doubled. Smell funny? I am a business owner myself, and as I understand it, if a business offers an item for a certain price, they are legally obligated to sell the item at the advertised price. To revisit the order and ask for more money after it has been placed and accepted by said business is unethical at best and is likely an illegal act of fraud.
Opinions?
Best regards,
Larry

Zoom Zoom · « **Reply #1 on:** May 31, 2018, 07:21:21 AM »

I would agree with you. You chose to purchase the item at the published price. It is not your fault if they have not updated their web site. Have you actually called them to ask what is going on?

To me, a published price would be no different than quoting a job to a customer.

John Henry

oldbike54 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 31, 2018, 07:23:31 AM »

Have you contacted the business and asked for either a refund or for them to honor the listed price ?

Dusty

kirb · « **Reply #3 on:** May 31, 2018, 07:39:54 AM »

My other bike's dealer, non-Guzzi, has twice now quoted me a price on an accessory. I move on the transaction and the email back has the price nearly doubled.
'I did a little more research and the second price is the real price'.
Translation: 'The first price was dealer cost and I forgot to put in our markup'

Sheepdog · « **Reply #4 on:** May 31, 2018, 08:21:48 AM »

This happens often in the restoration game. Usually, they have run out of the item I wished to order. They typically call to apologize and offer me an alternate (if one is available). I have the right to accept or refuse. It can be frustrating, but I don�t expect businesses to operate at a loss...

Toecutter · « **Reply #5 on:** May 31, 2018, 08:23:14 AM »

Kiwi... no, they shouldn't have to sell at a loss. Legally however... the "sticker" price is legally binding, I am fairly certain.

IF this dealer made a mistake, then 'fess up. "We're terribly sorry, but that price was a massive error on our part. We are offering you a fuller fund, plus we're throwing in some t-shirts. We apologize profusely blahblahblah".

Sorry but this fishing bullshit stinks, and it seems to be growing more common with every passing year.

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2018, 09:16:29 AM »

Quote from: Toecutter on May 31, 2018, 08:23:14 AM

Kiwi... no, they shouldn't have to sell at a loss. Legally however... the "sticker" price is legally binding, I am fairly

Sorry, I deleted my post, basically said same thing.

guzziownr · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2018, 09:31:52 AM »

IMHO the internet has done wonders for mail order customer service in our small realm.

Before the days of MG Cycle there were a couple of outlets that had a very business-friendly approach: Charging for parts they didn't have in stock, bait and switching repop and NOS, out-and-out lying about pricing, condition and availability.

With the instantaneous communication of the internet these offenders have either left the business or got religion.

I treat them like ex-girlfriends: No comment and no contact. I have a long memory.

JohninVT · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2018, 10:25:55 AM »

If the place your ordering from has to get it from Europe it's probably not unethical. The exchange rate fluctuates all the time. It could also simply be a case of them being a small outfit and they haven't updated their website pricing. Stuff happens. That doesn't mean someone is out to get you. Usually.

Toecutter · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2018, 10:46:47 AM »

I think the average person will be understanding... IF the business is open, upfront and respectful about it. But if it comes across as "sorry, it's twice as much as we told you before, suck it up"... then yeah, I understand the doubt.

Curtis Harper · « **Reply #10 on:** May 31, 2018, 10:48:55 AM »

If this is an order that was placed with us, I will admit there have been some problems with pricing. Piaggio changes prices so fast lately that I cannot keep up. If the part is in stock, I honor the price posted. If I have to order the part and can still absorb the posted price I will. However, if the price changes to a point where my cost is higher than I have it posted for, obviously I can't do that.

No one ever gets charged a higher price with out contact, usually from me directly and I almost always use the phone to do that. Alice has been doing it by email a bit to lighten my load since spring has now sprung and the order rate is so much higher.

Our system does not charge you automatically, and almost nothing happens without me knowing about it. I assure you there is no intentional misrepresentation.

If that order was not placed with us, I hope others would reply. I have no orders for anyone named Larry, so I can't say if it's is us or not.

usedtobefast · « **Reply #11 on:** May 31, 2018, 11:15:49 AM »

Not sure about the legal requirement to sell at the advertised price. Seems all online stores have that disclaimer about prices and details can change at any time without notice?

The doubling of the price is the painful part. But say it is a rare part, they don't stock it, last time they sold one it was $50 from supplier xyz, that was 7 months ago ... you come along, order one, they go to xyz who doesn't carry that any more, so then they call up supplier abc that wants way more money than xyz did 7 months ago, so then they check back with you if you still want it at this much higher price. I could see that happening.

I don't think someone has an evil plan of doubling rare Moto Guzzi parts to make a killing and retire early.

rodekyll · « **Reply #12 on:** May 31, 2018, 12:33:36 PM »

When my store did special orders we could only price items by the information we got from our suppliers. Sometimes the information was wrong. I would always do what I could to ease the shock, but as a business I never felt the obligation to donate to my customer's projects. If they wanted to get snotty about it I'd graciously offered to undo the deal, if possible. But the idea of selling at a loss due to a typo or bad information is silly. A store never has that obligation.

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #13 on:** May 31, 2018, 12:37:40 PM »

I believe most 'stick to the advertised price' laws are state laws. I would not be surprised if it does not apply across state boundaries.

AJ Huff · « **Reply #14 on:** May 31, 2018, 12:55:16 PM »

I think it's a significant issue that they changed the price AFTER you paid. That's different than we made a mistake. That's a completed transaction. I'd get refund and not look back.

-AJ

Ncdan · « **Reply #15 on:** May 31, 2018, 01:28:20 PM »

A lot of companies cover this very issue by saying in writing that prices may change without notice. Personally I understand their dilemma of price change but the deal breaker here for me is if they accepted my payment that they quoted then they should eat the loss.

LowRyter · « **Reply #16 on:** May 31, 2018, 01:34:03 PM »

I don't know the details but if it's an honest mistake or legitimate price change, so long as the customer is informed and allowed a full refund, I don't see a big deal. I can understand the time and aggravation.

rodekyll · « **Reply #17 on:** May 31, 2018, 02:07:48 PM »

You should undo the sale. Neither party needs the stress. If he's a shady dealer you'll get your target price elsewhere. Just don't try redoing it if you find the price is just as high or higher at the other outlets.

Mr Pootle · « **Reply #18 on:** June 01, 2018, 04:28:41 AM »

In English law, the sticker price is an “invitation to treat”. The prospective buyer makes offer to buy, and if the seller accepts the offer, both are then bound by contract to complete the transaction.

Kev m · « **Reply #19 on:** June 01, 2018, 06:14:33 AM »

I see both sides of this.

Bottom line it comes down to state law (which varies) and even then it may come down to whether or not one could prove intent.

A lot of states don't address it. Others simply are trying to say you can't decive on purpose.

Few, if any, address e-commerce specifically yet and I have no idea if you're out of state, which state laws apply if any.

https://www.moneytalksnews.com/pop-quiz-does-store-have-honor-misprinted-price/

https://www.nist.gov/document/us-pricing-laws-all-states2pdf

Bottom line it's probably not worth pursuing in most states. And really you have to ask yourself "Was it an honest mistake?"

If the answer is yes, move on and forget about it.

Gliderjohn · « **Reply #20 on:** June 01, 2018, 06:56:21 AM »

Had a pricing error work for me once back in my high school days. Stopped at the local Alco store and in their firearms section there was a total custom built 22-250 rifle (knew the builder) that was marked $115. Put it on layaway with the $20 I had on me and went straight home to get my father to complete the transaction. Since I had put money down they sold it to us for $115. The price was suppose to be $699.
GliderJohn

larrys · « **Reply #21 on:** June 01, 2018, 08:23:47 AM »

It's a taillight for a '95 Cal 1100. Part #GU30740960. Advertised price was $36. Price upgrade was a $44 increase for a total of $80. If anyone here has one new or used that they would sell me for less I would buy it and cancel this order. I did go back and read their Terms of Service. There is language stating that they can change the price if their supplier's price changes. Curtis' post here has merit.
regards,
Larry

boatdetective · « **Reply #22 on:** June 01, 2018, 08:46:47 AM »

Quote from: JohninVT on May 31, 2018, 10:25:55 AM

If the place your ordering from has to get it from Europe it's probably not unethical. The exchange rate fluctuates all the time. It could also simply be a case of them being a small outfit and they haven't updated their website pricing. Stuff happens. That doesn't mean someone is out to get you. Usually.

This- and I agree with Curtis Harper. There are some things you cannot keep on top of. I've purchased from Curtis as well as Rick at MG Cycle. Both outfits are top flight. In business, the first thing you sell your customer on is trust. I trust Curtis implicitly.

Jonathan

Curtis Harper · « **Reply #23 on:** June 01, 2018, 10:27:51 AM »

I'm going to take the opportunity before me here to show the roller coaster ride that is being a Moto Guzzi Dealer. First of all, the price shown by Larrys is actually correct today. But the fun part is keeping up with constant up and down changes. One screen shot is from Piaggio showing the retail price if it is ordered today. The second is my purchase history on that part over the years. Notice constant, up , down and down. For years, the cost of the part was higher than today's retail. This one actually went down and is still down over all but went lower and back up. So my posted price was still the way high one which explains why I haven't sold one and Dealer X in this conversation had the last price posted.

Right now body parts are the worst. Norge body parts that were in the $200 range a couple years ago are now $600 - 800. Gas thanks that were 6 - 700 now $2300. I have no idea who Larrys ordered from, but the struggle is real as they say. No one in the Moto Guzzi parts business is getting rich from your passion, trust me on that. Sure some places are not as honest as other and of course, buyer beware. But if you don't trust what you read, call the dealer and ask. That's what we are here for if it was our sale.

Mayakovski · « **Reply #24 on:** June 01, 2018, 10:47:29 AM »

Quote from: Curtis Harper on June 01, 2018, 10:27:51 AM

The second is my purchase history on that part over the years. Notice constant, up , down and down.

Umm, sorry but one price change in 2 years is not exactly constant up and down. November 2012 to August 2014 = same price, price rise of 3$ in august, and then back down to normal. Either this is the wrong graphic, or you are blowing smoke.

Curtis Harper · « **Reply #25 on:** June 01, 2018, 10:57:10 AM »

Quote from: Mayakovski on June 01, 2018, 10:47:29 AM

Umm, sorry but one price change in 2 years is not exactly constant up and down. November 2012 to August 2014 = same price, price rise of 3$ in august, and then back down to normal. Either this is the wrong graphic, or you are blowing smoke.

Ahh punctuation is key . constant , up , down . One more reason I am not a fan of the written word over actual voice

redrider90 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 01, 2018, 11:18:33 AM »

I've had to eat a couple of mistakes as I misquoted a price to a client and then when I was charging them the reminded me what I quoted. I was damn embarrassed and quickly ate the loos. It was my fault and I dare not ruin my reputation for the loss.
As for someone in the M/C business they should know their stock and if they have to order then it is up to the dealer to forewarn the client they cannot guarantee the price. It allows the buyer to move on or take the chance. If the seller had not forwarded me of a possible price change then I would hold their feet to the fire. Curtis says its hard to keep up with price changes and I believe him. I've never had an issue with Harper's.
But I hope any dealer who is not sure of a price tells his buyer of the issue before hand.
I recently found my dog's favorite treats on eBay. I used a double coupon and ordered 6 bags of the stuff which I am sure brought the price down to below cost. But the seller stuck by his price. If he set his computer up to accept to coupons they were offering then that is their problem.

Curtis Harper · « **Reply #27 on:** June 01, 2018, 12:35:15 PM »

Our policies also state "Price subject to change without notice" BUT when an order is processed, if we have to order the part, we check pricing and if there is an issue I call the customer directly if possible because I don't like an email telling me that. As eluded to by the OP, it makes one wonder what's up. Customer has not been charged at that point and has every option to say no. I have not done this a time or two and did not realize it until after the part was in and I have eaten a few. I NEVER change a price with out the customer knowing it. I have however lowered a few when things go down without telling the customer and have not yet gotten a thank you call for that.

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #28 on:** June 01, 2018, 12:42:42 PM »

Quote from: larrys on June 01, 2018, 08:23:47 AM

It's a taillight for a '95 Cal 1100. Part #GU30740960. Advertised price was $36. Price upgrade was a $44 increase for a total of $80. If anyone here has one new or used that they would sell me for less I would buy it and cancel this order. I did go back and read their Terms of Service. There is language stating that they can change the price if their supplier's price changes. Curtis' post here has merit.
regards,
Larry

$80 is still cheap, IMO.

Ncdan · « **Reply #29 on:** June 01, 2018, 01:02:11 PM »

Quote from: Curtis Harper on June 01, 2018, 12:35:15 PM

Our policies also state "Price subject to change without notice" BUT when an order is processed, if we have to order the part, we check pricing and if there is an issue I call the customer directly if possible because I don't like an email telling me that. As eluded to by the OP, it makes one wonder what's up. Customer has not been charged at that point and has every option to say no. I have not done this a time or two and did not realize it until after the part was in and I have eaten a few. I NEVER change a price with out the customer knowing it. I have however lowered a few when things go down without telling the customer and have not yet gotten a thank you call for that.

I have ordered from you quite a few times and have never been treated unfairly and let me be the first to say thank you if you have adjusted a price to my favor and I didn’t notice it as I never look at my credit card bill anyway. Heck I just pay it when it comes in:)

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Author Topic: Unethical business practices (Read 7045 times)

oldbike54