V9 a sales failure?

[not-fishing]

V9 -- well not for me.

I'm just happy Guzzi keeps swinging away looking for the next "V-7".

I figure the V9 is a place holder until the V85 ADV comes out.

Then I have hope for a V85 "griso", "norge" and lemans with the new engine compatible with the Euro standards of the 2020's+

[Numbercruncher]

Ride any new Ducati, other than the Scrambler, and you will answer your own question.

I own two (Ducatis) right now and have ridden many other current generation Ducati's.  I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

NC

[Numbercruncher]

I took a strong interest in the V9 about a year and a half ago and yet my first MG ever will be a new V7III stone that I pickup this Friday.  A week from now I should be cruising around the Oregon cascades.

I like the looks of both the white and yellow V9 Roamer and can handle the larger price tag save for one thing.  The fuel tank is too small.  I am sure they need the bike to NOT look like a V7 but they could have kept the teardrop shape and still had it up to 5 gallons.  Yeah I know gas stations aren't that far from one another but something about the 5+ gallons on a V7 and an EASY 200 mile range really sold me on the bike.  I still might rather have the V9 but the tank is a deal killer.  Even 4.5 gallons may have been okay but 15 liters?  That is less than 4 gallons.  Did they not get input from the US market before making this decision?

In addition, and at least on paper, the engine does not appear much stronger.  I am sure the torque curve is much meatier in the 3,000 - 6,000 rpm range and will offer a lot more real world performance than the V7, but I have yet to ride one to find out.   But since I am committed to the new V7 I don't want to find out I like the V9 better.

So if the V9 had a larger tank I probably would have pulled the trigger as I really like the white color scheme on the V9 Roamer.  My new blue, V7III Stone still looks really sweet, and will look better when the red valve covers come in, but for now I'll pass on the Roamer.

I just checked the specs on both bikes.  The V7 III is listed as having 60 nm torque and they don't even show the V9.  That has to be because they are hiding something or at least not proud that at least numerically it doesn't look like much of an improvement.  65 nm may not be much of a peak increase but the curve may be much flatter and more usable.

NC

[bad Chad]

In large part the v9 was never intended to be a highly sought bike by current Guzzi riders.  Sure if they were to buy them that would be great, but the bike was intended to reach out to a market Guzzi has not tapped into well.  The majority of the type of folks who post here, ride bigger miles, know exactly how and where they want to use their bike, aren't going to go nuts for a v9. 

How well it has worked to get new riders on board the Guzzi train, that's a different question.

[Sheepdog]

I think it is very interesting that the bike with less displacement (the V7s) are more popular than the version with more cubes (the V9). Maybe change is afoot amongst the motorcycle buying public.

[Diploman]

The V9 Roamer/Bobber are dubious styling exercises meant to evoke a Harleyesque American "cruiser".  As such, they fall far short of the authentic originals.  And they are, to my eye, ugly.  I can only imagine that these models were targeted at the American market, the only place in the world where - due to Harley's strong presence - cruisers are more than marginally appreciated.  But even in the American cruiser-haven, these oddly-styled smallblocks seem to have generated little following.

Far more to the point are the V7's, with their attractive, inoffensive retro styling, excellent ergos and functionality (eg. 5+ gallon tank), a much more congenial use of the smallblock platform.

As for Pete's comment about the "barely adequate" brakes on the current smallblocks, I agree that braking capabilities seem to have taken a step backward on the modern smallblocks compared to the original V35-V50-V65 series, the latter all fitted with THREE disk brakes (a linked system plus an independent front disk), and significantly lighter in weight than the V7 smallblocks.  (The V50 was listed as 356 lbs. dry.)  The combination of less weight and more brakes results in very strong brake performance, even without ABS.  I think it is regrettable that a similar linked system is not offered, even as an option, on the modern V7 series, which at 450+lbs, is rather porky for a single front disk.

[Adan]

I like being on a bike that looks like no one else's, but I lack the skills and time to build one.  Guzzi played right into my hands with the V9 Bobber.  I have yet to see another one in the Bay Area. 

I don't find the riding experience to be vastly different than the V7's I've owned.  A little better in the city, a little worse on the open road.  A little more aurally pleasing when rolling on the throttle but the results are about the same.

As an attention-getter, it's up there with my former Griso. 

I expect to take a bath on resale but I have no plans to sell it unless I quit motorcycling altogether.  For my modest riding needs, around the city and up and down the coast, it's perfect and I've owned much better-performing bikes than this.

[twowheeladdict]

I think it is very interesting that the bike with less displacement (the V7s) are more popular than the version with more cubes (the V9). Maybe change is afoot amongst the motorcycle buying public.

Totally different rider triangle.  The V9 is going after the cruiser rider. 

The V7 cant touch the ride my FZ-07 provides, but the look and fit and finish far surpass the Yamaha.  Some bikes you buy to wear out.  Some you buy to cherish.

[TimmyTheHog]

For me personally, I really want to like V9

On paper, it has more power (ya I know), more "relax & cruise" sitting position, and a more "updated" engine. What is there not to like.

Until I sat on one...I find myself wanting to move my legs MORE rear of the bike, the "extra" horse wasn't that noticeable (granted it was a demo bike so I didn't give it hell), and I just can't bring myself trading from a 21 L tank to 15 L tank...

out of all those things that strike me odd is def the tank...15L looks bloody small and feels bloody small...This is the exactly the same reason why I didn't go for a HD 48 as I had a good deal lined up before purchasing the V7.

Now that being said, I am waiting for how V85 turns out...honestly beside some weird but minor things they did on the patent such as the seat & rear passenger foot pegs, V85 is slowly shaping into a machine how a V9 SHOULD be...

[Toecutter]

Yeah I know gas stations aren't that far from one another but

Speak for yourself. I've run the V7 tank dry on an excursion... ran outta gas 2km from the station.

Canada is a vast place, with a wee little population. The tank on the V7 was a HUUUUUUGE selling point for me.

[TimmyTheHog]

Speak for yourself. I've run the V7 tank dry on an excursion... ran outta gas 2km from the station.

Canada is a vast place, with a wee little population. The tank on the V7 was a HUUUUUUGE selling point for me.

Same here

I know I got gas station every 10~15 mins ride here in the city, but out on the road trip, there had been a few occasions I pushed my little red a bit far that I started to get worry...

[not-fishing]

Speak for yourself. I've run the V7 tank dry on an excursion... ran outta gas 2km from the station.

Canada is a vast place, with a wee little population. The tank on the V7 was a HUUUUUUGE selling point for me.

A little rack and rotopax will help with the range problem.  Heck I'm building a rack adapter/alum plate setup (in wood because that's what I work with) for my Griso & V11 lemans.  The steel single plate mount weighs to damn much.



Something like this because if it leaks well gravity (and wind) will pull it away.....

[Numbercruncher]

I think if you re-read my post you would see we think EXACTLY alike!

The reality is that most of the time gas stations aren't too far apart as rarely MUST I go even 90 miles.  But that is assuming I go from station to station.  But there are MANY times I want to go from small town to small town and criss cross an area utilizing smaller roads.  Doing this can easily get me to the 200 mile distance with no gas station in the vicinity.

So rest assure I get what you are saying.  When I mentioned that Moto Guzzi must not have researched the US market I should also have mentioned Canada and Australia.  Glad many of us GET to live in areas where we can have long rides with minimal human interaction if we so desire.  It is much easier to find the opposite.

The V85 will be interesting depending on what the final product morphs into.

NC

Speak for yourself. I've run the V7 tank dry on an excursion... ran outta gas 2km from the station.

Canada is a vast place, with a wee little population. The tank on the V7 was a HUUUUUUGE selling point for me.

[jacksonracingcomau]

I think if you re-read my post you would see we think EXACTLY alike!

The reality is that most of the time gas stations aren't too far apart as rarely MUST I go even 90 miles.  But that is assuming I go from station to station.  But there are MANY times I want to go from small town to small town and criss cross an area utilizing smaller roads.  Doing this can easily get me to the 200 mile distance with no gas station in the vicinity.

So rest assure I get what you are saying.  When I mentioned that Moto Guzzi must not have researched the US market I should also have mentioned Canada and Australia.  Glad many of us GET to live in areas where we can have long rides with minimal human interaction if we so desire.  It is much easier to find the opposite.

The V85 will be interesting depending on what the final product morphs into.

NC

:1:
That is not even considering the lack of enjoyment in constantly stopping for fuel
Here in oz the cashiers (some not all) take great pleasure in not taking your money until you take crash helmet off. I am an old man in an open face ffs !
Glasses, helmet, glasses on to pay, glasses off, helmet on , glasses on gets boring,
Others enjoy the filling game, fill when half full, go figure.
Hope the v85 has bigger tank than it looks, stupid shrouds bother me, could be fuel instead.
200 mile range minimum, on the noise , I do not run at constant 60; never will,

[jdgretz]

One of my hot buttons is 200 mile range.  I hate having to fuel up in the 150 mile range (the EV I stored for a couple of years drove me nuts with the 130 out of gas tank!).  Both the Norge and the Goldwing are 200+ mile bikes.  Even my old C-10 was over 200 miles between fill ups.

As much as I like the styling of the V7 and V9s, until they get bigger tanks, there is (currently) no way I'd buy either - they just don't fit my riding profile.  I'll have to ask Todd what the capacity is on the V9 he built with a V7 style tank.

For around town commuting I do have a scooter that doesn't get 200 miles out of a tank, but it does get almost 70mpg.

jdg

[bad Chad]

Just to keep you in the know.  v7 have a 21L tank, that's about 5.5 US Gallons.  v7 typically get over 50mpg, so you're looking at a range of well in excess of 250 miles per tank.

[twowheeladdict]

I never park my bikes without topping them off with ethanol free fuel.  Smaller tanks on local ride bikes don't bother me. 

[jacksonracingcomau]

I never park my bikes without topping them off with ethanol free fuel.  Smaller tanks on local ride bikes don't bother me.

Parking ? Towards or against curb?
Makes tipping  the jug an issue.
Left side to pour?

[bpreynolds]

Just to keep you in the know.  v7 have a 21L tank, that's about 5.5 US Gallons.  v7 typically get over 50mpg, so you're looking at a range of well in excess of 250 miles per tank.

And my V9 actually got 4-8mpg better even than my two V7s.  And even the V9 has a 3.9 gallon tank.  I drive about 20k or more miles a year on bikes and tour a great deal.  I just don’t see how range is an issue for anyone on either of these bikes.  I think folks are just trying to find reasons to not like a bike they already don’t like. 

[mjptexas]

For me personally, I really want to like V9

...Until I sat on one...I find myself wanting to move my legs MORE rear of the bike, the "extra" horse wasn't that noticeable (granted it was a demo bike so I didn't give it hell)...

Riding position can be fixed - all it takes is money.  Pictures of my V9 with the OEM kit to move the pegs (about 3 in back & 1 in up).  Feet end up in a position similar to the V7.






I also changed the bars for something more aggressive. 

...and I just can't bring myself trading from a 21 L tank to 15 L tank...

I get the concern regarding the tank size.  However, given the crazy good fuel mileage most of us have seen on the V9 you can safely go 180 miles on a full tank.  I know a lot of people feel the need to have a  200 mile range but as I've said before, 150 is about all my old butt and bladder can tolerate.  As much riding as I do I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone more than 180 miles at one sitting in the last ten years.

...out of all those things that strike me odd is def the tank...15L looks bloody small and feels bloody small...This is the exactly the same reason why I didn't go for a HD 48 as I had a good deal lined up before purchasing the V7...

I'm not sure Guzzi did themselves any favors with the tank design, but I understand why they did it. 'Lifting' the tank up and away from the cylinder heads emphasizes the engine.  This may be part of their designer's philosophy.  Look at the way they highlighted the cylinders on the 1400s. 

Guzzi doesn't care whether you buy a V9 or a V7.  The V9 was targeted at  the folks that would buy a Sportster, or Kawasaki Vulcan, or a Yamaha Bolt.  The point of the V9 was market acquisition.  Have they been successful?  Doesn't look like it.  However, I doubt if most of the buyers who chose a V9 over a Sportster/Bolt/Vulcan would be regular participants on this forum.

[TimmyTheHog]

Riding position can be fixed - all it takes is money.  Pictures of my V9 with the OEM kit to move the pegs (about 3 in back & 1 in up).  Feet end up in a position similar to the V7.






I also changed the bars for something more aggressive. 






I get the concern regarding the tank size.  However, given the crazy good fuel mileage most of us have seen on the V9 you can safely go 180 miles on a full tank.  I know a lot of people feel the need to have a  200 mile range but as I've said before, 150 is about all my old butt and bladder can tolerate.  As much riding as I do I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone more than 180 miles at one sitting in the last ten years.
I'm not sure Guzzi did themselves any favors with the tank design, but I understand why they did it. 'Lifting' the tank up and away from the cylinder heads emphasizes the engine.  This may be part of their designer's philosophy.  Look at the way they highlighted the cylinders on the 1400s. 

Guzzi doesn't care whether you buy a V9 or a V7.  The V9 was targeted at  the folks that would buy a Sportster, or Kawasaki Vulcan, or a Yamaha Bolt.  The point of the V9 was market acquisition.  Have they been successful?  Doesn't look like it.  However, I doubt if most of the buyers who chose a V9 over a Sportster/Bolt/Vulcan would be regular participants on this forum.

Well as much as I do agree with you on your counter-points, I mean, yes, money can solve things, but that is usually the truth with all things in the world.

Throughout the history of my riding (which isn't that long LOL), I am always a cruiser dude as I like how the style/feel of the ride...had a bit of dirt when I was younger but nothing extensive.

This is the first time that a classic/naked style appeals to me, and probably also the first time I would prefer a classic/naked over a cruiser.

When V9 came out, I thought to myself: oh goodie! a cruiser made by Guzzi that doesn't weight a ton! (also my garage won't fit a bigger bike)...but came out of the dealership slightly disappointed...it just doesn't feel as finished as it should be...

The main thing: The tank looks "separated" from the bike by "emphasizing the engine" as you side...I know it sounds shallow, but that is a turn-off for me....

V9 is not a bad bike, not by a long shot. It is just that by having a V7 ALREADY, I just can't bring myself up to trade/get another one of V9, whether it's due to performance and/or the look...

I really really want to like that bike...but so far nothing of it is winning me over indefinitely from my V7......but again, that is my personal feeling.

[Toecutter]

I can't quite explain it. I've tried.

But there's just *something* about the V9 that misses the mark for me.

it's not the fat front tires, I like them. It's not the "Guzzi entry into the sportster/shadow/bolt market", I get it.

it's not the ergos/positioning, it makes sense for the demographic.

it just... I dunno. Something.

If they had offered this as a V9 in V7 clothes, I'd probably have been first in line to trade my V7 in.

That said, the couple people I know with one, and couple that have done demo rides seem to like them... so they seem to have hit the mark. Bikes are made to meet the demands of specific demographics... and it seems to. I think this is firmly targeted at the aforementioned Bolt/Shadow/Sporty market, that's looking for something a bit different from a Bolt, Shadow or Sporty. Kind of like all Guzzis and their respective demos, no?

[Sheepdog]

I've never ridden a small block, but I've seen three or four V9s "in the wild." My conclusion: they look much better in the flesh than in photos. Much better...

[Kristian]

Pete Roper nailed it. It's a very homely looking thing; the Triumph competitors are far better looking and performing. Guzzi really has to get it together; it has as poor a model selection now as it has ever had.

I fear we're doomed to a Guzzi becoming a quaint life-style accessory for city and bar bikers, with function, performance, and design blown away by style and gimmickry. Like totally daft 21" front wheels (MGX-21), one-ton cruisers with 30 kgs. of added weight to make the engine shake, and 9 different "versions" of the same bike, only differences being color changes.

Whether you liked them or not, the Norge, Stelvio, and Griso were all big, classic, bad-ass, Moto Guzzi roadburners. Now gone.

Kristian
Sport 1100

[bpreynolds]

Oh brother.    I’m checking out of this thread.  Guess I’m taking the bait here as I can’t stand it.  It would be enough if folks just blasted the V9 for styling or ergos since those seem about the most valid points in the thread though styling is entirely subjective and pegs can be moved.

No, it does not underperform in comparison to other bikes in its class, especially not the Triumph.  The V9 actually has more torque, more horsepower, and a flatter curve than the Street Twin.  No, the Triumph isn’t finished better with its top notch Kayaba forks and Nissin brakes.   

No, the small tank does not limit your touring range unless 180-200 miles per tank minimum is your baseline, Mr. Suspenders.  And if that’s the case, then I guess you can likely stick what, 85 percent of the motorcycle market in your range deal breaker category so smear the V9 if you want, but smear the vast majority of the motorcycle market with it. 

No, the V9 is not somehow “less authentic” than other Guzzis.  Less authentic how?  Less Harleyish than the 1400?  Please.  And the Stelvio.  Definitely authentic.  Guzzi wasn’t trying to copy the GS model or steal sales away from BMW at all.  And the Griso, took nothing from the trellis framed Monster.  Especially not that big, exposed silver frame bar up there on top.  No sir. 

I love the CARC bikes too, got one in the garage now, have had many others, but they are woefully deficient in their so called classes if you’re talking about performance - and that’s what folks here in this thread seem to keep harping upon.  The Stelvio, the Norge, and yes even the manly Griso all pale in numbers when compared bikes in their classes.  And yet, here you guys are saying they are badasses or perfect examples of what Guzzi should be doing.  Gimme a break.  What they are is bigger, louder, and more visceral than a V7 or a V9.  If that somehow qualifies them as badasses or more “authentically” Guzzi then I guess you got a point. 

So tell me the V9 is not your cup of tea stylistically or tell me you need 200 miles per tank minimum.  But everything else, pleeeeeeessssee.  Are you kidding me. 

[davedude]

The v9 is certainly not discordant with Guzzi past. The Nevada and other similar cycles sold only in Europe and elsewhere kept Guzy of float through much of the lien 80s and 90s.  They sold a far more of these lovable work horses live they ever did any of Le Mans or even California models.

I find the bike kind of cool, and many of you ripping on it  have yet to see one on the road.   You might find it's not the abomination you think it is once you see one up close

I always take exception with Nevada bashers (that's a little strong). Put a windshield, HBs in the rear, and they make a great lightweight tourer, just not that much to look at. They are super performers; everything the V7s are with better stock suspension. If you ride one you'll be impressed.
That being said, probably a lot of that is true for the V9.
I still choose the Calvin for my enjoyment and ride the NV to keep i from going to seed, but when I ride it, it puts a big smile on my face!
DB

[inditx]

 :1: :1: :1: bpreynolds
I�m outta here too

[timax]

V9 with V7 tank and seat..http://ridemalibu.com/bikes/v97/

[Huzo]

:1: :1: :1: bpreynolds
I�m outta here too

Hmmm, yes.
Must agree. What are we even arguing about ?
Nicely said bpr...
Styling is something that can't be argued about because of the subjective nature of it all.
After all, I bought a bike new because I thought I liked it, then changed just about every styling cue that I could, so what does that say about my mindset..?
Clearly, I wasn't as happy as I thought..!
Maybe the more pertinent point worth magnifying is..
"Why do potential buyers steer away from the V9, and is that where the V7 sales are coming from"?

[Huzo]

V9 with V7 tank and seat..http://ridemalibu.com/bikes/v97/

And again..


Honestly.
Different wheels, second front disc, better seat, decent pipes and I can't see anything to sneer at..