Author Topic: Engine misses and cuts out briefly on 98EV (Read 6465 times)

antmanbee · « **on:** July 03, 2018, 05:05:29 PM »

This EV 1100 has a P8 ECU and I am not so familiar with this as the 15M or 15RC systems.
The bike sometimes runs perfect, like today I took it out and for the first 50 miles or so it did not miss a beat. Then it started to sputter and kick back in and out from running to sputtering for a minute or so and then smooth back out to good running for another 5-10 minutes and then back to cutting in and out.

I've checked most of the usual things. All this was done at the initial tuneup when I first got the bike with the exception of the relays. They were changed after discovering the intermittent problem.
New plugs (look good)
Ohmed the plug wires (at about 5K with NGK caps)
Set TPS to .157V
Balanced throttle bodies
New fuel filter
Air filter good
New Omron relays
Adjusted CO trim screw with Guzzi Diag

It starts easy and most of the time runs great. But it always starts to cut in and out somewhere into the ride. It runs so well that I know nothing is wrong with the tune.
Something intermittent is happening but I am unsure what.

Other possibly related facts or symptoms,
The fuel pump runs for about twice as long when the key is initially turned on as the pump on my 15M bike. Is this due to the P8 ECU?
There was some gas in the hose between the two manifold balance nipples. Today I have replaced the hose with caps. The bike is always parked on the side stand but I am not sure how fuel could collect there. The nipples are not on the bottom of the manifold.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #1 on:** July 03, 2018, 05:08:30 PM »

<throwing dart> How about some swarf on the timing sensor?

John A · « **Reply #2 on:** July 03, 2018, 05:12:04 PM »

Beat me to it Chuck

antmanbee · « **Reply #3 on:** July 03, 2018, 05:13:17 PM »

It has two, one on the bell housing and one on the timing cover.
I have not checked them yet. My other timing sensor failure was not an intermittent issue.
But I will pull them and ohm them out and clean them.

Mackers · « **Reply #4 on:** July 03, 2018, 05:26:00 PM »

My EV problem: https://motoguzzimackers.com/2017/06/14/cali-ev-electrical-gremlin/

LowRyter · « **Reply #5 on:** July 03, 2018, 05:52:13 PM »

I'll check the battery leads. Mack.

guzzisteve · « **Reply #6 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:00:51 PM »

Well, lets see, ignition switch and the harness plugs next to frame by front of tank.

Dharma Bum · « **Reply #7 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:05:25 PM »

I agree with the above suggestions and would also clean the c connections to the ignitors (don't know the actual term ) that triggers the coils. I've had good luck in the past doing this on my 96 Cali.

Madtownguzzi · « **Reply #8 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:12:27 PM »

Check the harness plug on the P-8 My EV would miss when I went over bumps or on a rough road. I zip tied the plug to the P-8 and no more miss.

antmanbee · « **Reply #9 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:36:41 PM »

When I first got the bike and was trying to sort out all the issues and get it running smoothly I had the tank off and had unplugged the big 3 connectors up at the front and inspected them. They looked fine, no visible corrosion. I also had pushed the connectors on and off several time to the ignitors under the left side cover and also the big connector on the ECU. Also no visible problem and seem secure. I have also had the battery out a couple of times and the connections look ok.
I will get a can of deoxit and clean all of the above.
Will wiggling the key in the ignition switch recreate the problem or does it need to be disassembled and inspected to find an issue?

Anybody have any insights on these 2 symptoms?

The fuel pump runs for about twice as long when the key is initially turned on as the pump on my 15M bike. Is this due to the P8 ECU?
There was some gas in the hose between the two manifold balance nipples. Today I have replaced the hose with caps. The bike is always parked on the side stand but I am not sure how fuel could collect there. The nipples are not on the bottom of the manifold.

guzzisteve · « **Reply #10 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:45:11 PM »

My ignition switch got dogey 10 yrs ago and I put all the stuff on a different post in it. I didn't take it apart. It's the wires being loose in the plugs loosing contact not corrosion.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #11 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:53:31 PM »

Every Zadi ignition switch I've fooled with has been super simple to take apart, clean off the old hardened grease, give it a dose of scotch brite, fresh Vaseline, and reassemble.
That said, I have never even looked at the switch on a 98 EV. I'll bet it is the same, though..knowing Guzzi.

fotoguzzi · « **Reply #12 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:56:59 PM »

agree with ignition switch idea.. but is your tank vent clogged? or rust in tank?

rodekyll · « **Reply #13 on:** July 03, 2018, 08:27:01 PM »

When I find gas in the balancing spigot I suspect a leaky injector on that side. I sometimes use a few inches of clear plastic hose with a plug in one end as a "catch can" to see if I can trap excess fuel. The presence of gas in the tube and wonky inconsistent vacuum are my tells.

John A · « **Reply #14 on:** July 03, 2018, 08:31:35 PM »

do the lights go out when it happens or is just the engine affected?

Ronkom · « **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2018, 10:43:29 PM »

Does the bike still have the side stand switch? Infamous for intermittent motor cutting out. Also, my EV evidenced similar symptoms when the electric petcock was giving up the ghost.

antmanbee · « **Reply #16 on:** July 04, 2018, 05:15:03 AM »

I am not sure if the headlight goes out as I was only riding in daylight. The tach continues to work and it is on the same circuit.

The side stand switch is removed and unplugged from the harness under the tank.

Good idea on the clear hose with a plug in it to see if any more gas gets into the balancing nipple.

Tank vent has not been checked but the gas cap gasket was missing when I got it and I made a temporary one till I get a replacement, but I don't think it seals well.No rust or debris in tank.
I pulled the fuel tap and cleaned the screen and emptied the tank and then swirled around a bit of new clean gas and dumped that too when I first got the bike and had the tank off. It was all pretty clean.

Being Guzzi frugal I used the gas that was originally in the tank for my lawn mower and it worked fine.

JoeB · « **Reply #17 on:** July 04, 2018, 06:11:02 AM »

Mine did that once and it turned out to be the timing sensor that collects swarf by your right leg.
Seems when I replaced the fuel line (

) I routed it poorly and insulation was rubbed through to a small bare spot. Intermittent contact made diagnosing fun.
The sensor checked out ok with a meter but visual and tactile exam was needed to find defect.
FWIW if you do get into the ignition switch: http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=94262.msg1490298#msg1490298

twhitaker · « **Reply #18 on:** July 04, 2018, 07:03:31 AM »

On my Cali I had a similar experience. Fixed with a Zip tie on the front side of the ECU connector to hold it tight to the box.

John A · « **Reply #19 on:** July 04, 2018, 10:40:55 AM »

Quote from: Chuck in Indiana on July 03, 2018, 06:53:31 PM

Every Zadi ignition switch I've fooled with has been super simple to take apart, clean off the old hardened grease, give it a dose of scotch brite, fresh Vaseline, and reassemble.
That said, I have never even looked at the switch on a 98 EV. I'll bet it is the same, though..knowing Guzzi.

the ignition switch base is available separately. it comes with the contact plate, leads and plug in. I think its part number is GU01782500 but its named ignition switch and its illustration doesn't reflect what it is. I got one from Joe Eish but he has regrettably passed. if you get a dealer to order one and be able to return it if its not it. I had to convince Joe but it was the switch contact plate, he ordered another because he wanted everything in stock that would stop you. But as Chuck said, you can usually clean and repair it

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #20 on:** July 04, 2018, 11:02:08 AM »

Sidestand switch bounce.
Swarf on one or both timing sensors.
Failing relay contact.
Any of a dozen dirty switches.
Any of a dozen loose connections.

pehayes · « **Reply #21 on:** July 04, 2018, 11:04:22 AM »

Nobody has mentioned the fuel filter atop the petcock INSIDE the tank. The 98EV has a huge fuel filter in the frame under the tank. But, the whole system is fed through the electric petcock. On top of that petcock is a screen filter, about the diameter of a pencil and perhaps 2" long. Doesn't take very much debris inside the tank to plug up that screen and starve the bike for fuel. When you stop and turn off the engine, some of the debris falls off the filter to the bottom of the tank. So, next start the bike runs fine. For awhile until the screen plugs again. I would remove the tank, remove the petcock, clean the screen, flush the tank, and start over.

Have you checked that your filler cap drain is clear? There is a 'moat' around the filler cap. Rain and wash water collect there and Guzzi provided a drain to the ground. It is a very tiny and circuitous drain. If it clogs, the collected water will now spill past the cap into your fuel, sink to the bottom, and begin rusting the bottom of the tank from the inside. Every time you have the tank off, insure that the moat drain is clear.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
two 98EV at 100K miles

rtbickel · « **Reply #22 on:** July 04, 2018, 11:36:37 AM »

I don't know if the 98 has the same systems as my 02 but I once had a bad temp sensor that exhibited the same symptoms while I was on a road trip. I was apparently able to reset the computer by flicking the kill switch which cured the problem for 5-10 miles at a time, but it got me back from New Mexico to Dallas.

cleatusj · « **Reply #23 on:** July 04, 2018, 12:44:29 PM »

Don't forget the frame/motor end of ground cable.

antmanbee · « **Reply #24 on:** July 04, 2018, 02:06:58 PM »

The bell housing timing sensor. Now wiped clean and re installed.
I don't know if this is the problem as I have not tested it.
If I was scientific I would make one change at a time and test. But sometimes I have to ride for an hour before it exhibits it's issues. That gets me pretty far from home if it dies altogether.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #25 on:** July 04, 2018, 02:19:03 PM »

Ahh, the dart made a lucky strike..

antmanbee · « **Reply #26 on:** July 04, 2018, 03:35:40 PM »

Front sensor was clean.
On this bike the battery is grounded to the frame and not the bell housing bolts like my other Tonti's. I don't see that as a problem as there is 0 resistance or voltage drop checked to either the frame or engine.
Going to take it for a spin.

antmanbee · « **Reply #27 on:** July 04, 2018, 04:29:18 PM »

Well it wasn't the timing sensor. I didn't even make it around the block before it started sputtering in and out.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #28 on:** July 04, 2018, 04:40:07 PM »

D'oh..

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #29 on:** July 04, 2018, 05:13:07 PM »

You seem to have tried most things, I'm surprised it wasn't the sensor with all that swarf.
Next thing I would try is a lamp across the petcock just in case it's losing power to the ECU (lamp will flicker)

If you jamb one wire into the top of fuse 1, the other to chassis
The light will show if the ignition switch, wiring or stand relay is faulty

The stand relay on my 98 used the Normally closed contact, they are not as reliable as the Normally Open.
Since you have disabled the stand switch the relay is just sitting there, you could just poke a wire in the socket 30 to 87A

Yes, the pump runs longer with the P8

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Author Topic: Engine misses and cuts out briefly on 98EV (Read 6465 times)