Author Topic: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark  (Read 5388 times)

Offline Mr.Bill

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Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« on: August 07, 2018, 10:38:06 PM »
Just bought a new Carbon Dark and have a question, is it possible to fit  the tach and speedo from a Special/Milano to the Carbon Dark (wiring harness the same, bracket mounting, etc.)?

Offline egschade

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 08:41:22 AM »
My 2017 Stone is also speedo only. Read somewhere that our models are not wired for a tach so it would NOT be a plug and play. Hope that's wrong as I like the more balanced look of the two instruments. That said, after a few months I (mostly) stopped missing the tach.
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Offline Diploman

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2018, 08:48:13 AM »
On request, Speedhut will seal the bezel for motorcycle use:

https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/G338-TACH-01/1/Speedhut-Tachometer-8K-RPM
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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 11:27:21 AM »
Just bought a new Carbon Dark and have a question, is it possible to fit  the tach and speedo from a Special/Milano to the Carbon Dark (wiring harness the same, bracket mounting, etc.)?

I also have a Carbon Dark.  0009 / 1921.

We know that the ECU knows what the RPMs are because it bases the gear indicator on RPM versus Speed.  Why they couldn't provide the RPMs as one of the options on the digital odometer part of the speedo is baffling. 

I have thought about getting the bluetooth interface and synching to a smart phone with the GUZZI app installed to be able to monitor RPMs and other factors while riding and analyze when I get home. 
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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 11:27:21 AM »

Offline Mr.Bill

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2018, 01:50:37 PM »
My 2017 Stone is also speedo only. Read somewhere that our models are not wired for a tach so it would NOT be a plug and play. Hope that's wrong as I like the more balanced look of the two instruments. That said, after a few months I (mostly) stopped missing the tach.

I had the dealer check the part number on the wiring harnesses on the Special, Milano and the Carbon Dark.  Seems the part number should be the same for the Special and Milano, both have tachs, the part numbers are different!  I suppose the only way to find out for sure is to look at the harnesses side by side, can MG give us an answer?

Offline PeteS

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2018, 02:08:22 PM »
Aftermarket tachs get their signal from the coil primary. It just counts pulses. No special wiring needed.

Pete

Offline Mr.Bill

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 02:08:56 PM »
I also have a Carbon Dark.  0009 / 1921.

We know that the ECU knows what the RPMs are because it bases the gear indicator on RPM versus Speed.  Why they couldn't provide the RPMs as one of the options on the digital odometer part of the speedo is baffling. 

I have thought about getting the bluetooth interface and synching to a smart phone with the GUZZI app installed to be able to monitor RPMs and other factors while riding and analyze when I get home.

I installed the MG-MP on my Carbon Dark and it seems to work as advertised.  Still it seems silly to use an iPhone to get a rev count.  Got an estimate from the dealer to install a tach, $2000 (new harness, brackets etc.)!!!  I think a tachometer on a bike should be standard for a number of reasons.  Will probably bite the bullet and get one installed from the dealer.  Want genuine MG, no third party.

Offline PeteS

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 02:29:00 PM »
Guzzi tachs get their signal from the same source as aftermarket. You need three wires, battery, ground, and coil signal. $2k for a tach install?

Pete

Offline Mr.Bill

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2018, 03:22:08 PM »
Guzzi tachs get their signal from the same source as aftermarket. You need three wires, battery, ground, and coil signal. $2k for a tach install?

Pete

If the current harness has these wires I would not have to replace the harness and save about 1k, if not maybe the dealer could add them.  The dealer is currently checking with MG to determine what is necessary.  Still the parts add up to about $800 (without the harness and labor), Guzzi stuff is not cheap.

0 1 0 0 2D000209 PI CABLE HARNESS $513.70??
0 1 0 0 2D000294 PI D105 DASHBOARD WITH RPM SCALE $713.00
0 1 0 0 2B003631 PI DOUBLE DASHBOARD UPPER COVER $10.50
0 2 0 0 AP8152117 PI HEX SOCRET SCREW M6X25* $5.00
0 2 0 0 2B003851 PI BUSH $5.00
0 1 0 0 2B003586 PI PLATE SUPPORT INSTRUMENT $24.80
0 6 0 0 2B003367 PI GROMMET $18.60
0 6 0 0 013763 PI Washer for plate holder (4,2x1 $12.00
0 6 0 0 270793 PI Self tapping screw (D3,85x16) $12.00
0 1 0 0 2B003711 PI DOUBLE DASHBOARD LOWER COVER $5.50
0 4 0 0 CM178609 PI THREAD FORMING SCREW $10.00
1 0 0 0 MISC0 LABOR $550.00??
Subtotal $1,880.10

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2018, 05:52:25 PM »
If the current harness has these wires I would not have to replace the harness and save about 1k, if not maybe the dealer could add them.  The dealer is currently checking with MG to determine what is necessary.  Still the parts add up to about $800 (without the harness and labor), Guzzi stuff is not cheap.

0 1 0 0 2D000209 PI CABLE HARNESS $513.70??
0 1 0 0 2D000294 PI D105 DASHBOARD WITH RPM SCALE $713.00
0 1 0 0 2B003631 PI DOUBLE DASHBOARD UPPER COVER $10.50
0 2 0 0 AP8152117 PI HEX SOCRET SCREW M6X25* $5.00
0 2 0 0 2B003851 PI BUSH $5.00
0 1 0 0 2B003586 PI PLATE SUPPORT INSTRUMENT $24.80
0 6 0 0 2B003367 PI GROMMET $18.60
0 6 0 0 013763 PI Washer for plate holder (4,2x1 $12.00
0 6 0 0 270793 PI Self tapping screw (D3,85x16) $12.00
0 1 0 0 2B003711 PI DOUBLE DASHBOARD LOWER COVER $5.50
0 4 0 0 CM178609 PI THREAD FORMING SCREW $10.00
1 0 0 0 MISC0 LABOR $550.00??
Subtotal $1,880.10

Still cheaper than buying a special and blacking it out. 
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Offline PeteS

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 06:28:50 AM »
Well, if you insist on a factory look then you will have to pay the freight. Are Guzzi instruments actually better than aftermarket now. The ones on my EV were both junk and both failed. I would not have considered using them again. I just made a new dash to accomodate the larger tach and was done with it. 10 bucks worth of aluminum plate plus the cost of the tach and it worked better than the Veglia ever did.



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Offline slopokes

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 06:00:14 PM »
Tachometers for two cyclinder engine on flea-bay starting at $9.00=free shipping 🛵

Offline egschade

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2018, 01:09:30 AM »
Tachometers for two cyclinder engine on flea-bay starting at $9.00=free shipping 🛵

You mean like this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motorcycle-LED-Backlight-Tachometer-Speedometer-Tacho-Gauge-13000-RPM-/362276112849?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#viTabs_0

Certainly cheap alternative if it doesn't break in a month...



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Offline Kev m

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2018, 03:51:49 AM »
Fwiw, I had an AutoMeter on my Jackal for years no problems. Only it was easy on the Jackal as a dedicated ign pulse wire was left untapped in the instrument bezel.

Unless such a wire is in the V7 Stone harness you'd have to run your own from the primary side of the ignition coil.

Also you might have to fabricate a mount.

I can't for the life of me figure out why the III wouldn't use the exact same harness on all models though. I mean really the difference between a Stone and Special electrically is like, the Tach, that's it, right?

I can't imagine what the factory saved leaving the Tach off?!? I wonder if it was just more of a marketing decision to further differentiate between Stone and Special to justify the price difference?
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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2018, 06:20:24 AM »
Fwiw, I had an AutoMeter on my Jackal for years no problems. Only it was easy on the Jackal as a dedicated ign pulse wire was left untapped in the instrument bezel.

Unless such a wire is in the V7 Stone harness you'd have to run your own from the primary side of the ignition coil.

Also you might have to fabricate a mount.

I can't for the life of me figure out why the III wouldn't use the exact same harness on all models though. I mean really the difference between a Stone and Special electrically is like, the Tach, that's it, right?

I can't imagine what the factory saved leaving the Tach off?!? I wonder if it was just more of a marketing decision to further differentiate between Stone and Special to justify the price difference?

Looking at the III Stone wiring manual I don't see a Tach lead anywhere. The ECU has several 'unused' terminals as does the headlight block so I'll need to pull the Special diagram to see what's what. Wouldn't surprise me to see wires there but not identified on the paper.

As to why they left it off the 'basic' V7 models I think it's both model differentiation AND cost savings. Even at Guzzi's lower volumes, saving a fist-full of Euros on what may be their highest volume model adds up. What does confuse me is why the wiring harness is different. What cost savings could there really be by leaving the tach connector off, especially if you consider the added cost of having to manufacture and stock two different parts for essentially the same job.
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Offline Mr.Bill

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2018, 03:56:39 PM »
Looking at the III Stone wiring manual I don't see a Tach lead anywhere. The ECU has several 'unused' terminals as does the headlight block so I'll need to pull the Special diagram to see what's what. Wouldn't surprise me to see wires there but not identified on the paper.

As to why they left it off the 'basic' V7 models I think it's both model differentiation AND cost savings. Even at Guzzi's lower volumes, saving a fist-full of Euros on what may be their highest volume model adds up. What does confuse me is why the wiring harness is different. What cost savings could there really be by leaving the tach connector off, especially if you consider the added cost of having to manufacture and stock two different parts for essentially the same job.

egschade,
Just ordered all the pieces (tachometer, brackets, hosing, etc.) to fit an QEM tachometer on my Carbon Dark and trying to figure out how to connect it.  One issue I am researching is to where to get the wiring connector for the tachometer. 

Any help would be appreciated,
Bill
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 04:15:33 PM by Mr.Bill »

Offline egschade

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2018, 06:19:19 PM »
egschade,
Just ordered all the pieces (tachometer, brackets, hosing, etc.) to fit an QEM tachometer on my Carbon Dark and trying to figure out how to connect it.  One issue I am researching is to where to get the wiring connector for the tachometer. 

Any help would be appreciated,
Bill

Bill - PM me your actual email address and I'll send you the .pdf wiring diagrams for the V7 III Special and Stone. It sure looks like the tach hooks into the can-bus somehow but it's not clear how that's done. Perhaps the tach is smart enough to pull the RPM data off the buss and all you have to to is tap into it (and the lighting leads from the speedo)?



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Offline Mr.Bill

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2018, 10:30:21 PM »
Bill - PM me your actual email address and I'll send you the .pdf wiring diagrams for the V7 III Special and Stone. It sure looks like the tach hooks into the can-bus somehow but it's not clear how that's done. Perhaps the tach is smart enough to pull the RPM data off the buss and all you have to to is tap into it (and the lighting leads from the speedo)?



warning poetry


egschade,
Sorry it took so long to get back to you.
Printed out your diagram, looks like all the wiring necessary comes from the speedometer.  Ordered but have not received the MG tachometer, need to check what type connector the tachometer requires.  With the tachometer connector wired in according to the diagram it looks like it should work!

Further researching the subject, I sent the following emails to MG and Valpolini (a MG dealer), both located in Mandello del Lario.

Hi,
Need some expertise!
Bought a Moto Guzzi V7 iii Carbon Dark and all the MG bits to add a tachometer (tachometer, housings and brackets).  I later learned that the wiring harness had no wiring for the tachometer.
Is it possible to purchase the physical connector and wiring instructions or a fabricated piggyback harness.
If not, can I replace the wiring harness from one of the V7's that has a tachometer?
Cannot find any knowledge on this issue in the US including the dealer, the forums, and the US MG distributer.
Love the bike and am willing to do whatever is necessary to get this tachometer installed.
Will be at Lake Como this spring and will try to visit MG and you guys.


Thanks for the info, Bill

 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 11:25:44 PM by Mr.Bill »

Offline Mc Tes

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2020, 12:51:57 PM »
To Mr. Bill
Did you finaly added a tacho or not?
If you did how did you do it.
I am looking for a sollutiion for my V7 III Limited.
I would like to hear from you.

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2020, 04:14:30 PM »
isn't the dash (Spedo & Tach etc) a one piece unit, thats what the schematic shows.
The speed Sensor goes into the ECU
The ECU communicates with the dash via CANbus, this will have lots of redundant information.
So it should be just a matter of getting a dash with the two gauges surely
I doubt though the early generation V7 would be the same as the iii
Find someone with a V7iii with the two gauges and try it
BTW you can tell the ECU is communicating with the dash because it does its full scale thing when you turn the key On.







« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 05:09:49 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2020, 05:45:46 PM »
There was a thread over on guzzitech and Todd researched it ... was doable but stupid expensive.  The speedo and tach are separate units, with different part numbers ... so you can order the tach and all the housing bits and pieces and everything to connect it. 

Sorry I don't remember the exact dollar amount, but it is in the "who would every pay that" level.  :grin:
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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2020, 06:17:45 PM »
There was a thread over on guzzitech and Todd researched it ... was doable but stupid expensive.  The speedo and tach are separate units, with different part numbers ... so you can order the tach and all the housing bits and pieces and everything to connect it. 

Sorry I don't remember the exact dollar amount, but it is in the "who would every pay that" level.  :grin:

Found the thread and it seems to be well over 800 US "Todd's price"

In another word, you are almost better off buying a special which already has a tach build in from the factory if that is a must for you.
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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2020, 06:30:05 PM »
Found the thread and it seems to be well over 800 US "Todd's price"

In another word, you are almost better off buying a special which already has a tach build in from the factory if that is a must for you.
May be on eBay of a parts bike?
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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2020, 06:55:29 PM »
May be on eBay of a parts bike?

perhaps, but I have not explore that option my self.

Was going to copy & paste Todd's work but decided against it as it is not my work nor I had tried so I do not know if it works also I do not want to be held responsible for anything that goes wrong.

but it is on his private forum if you really wish to look at it.
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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2020, 07:46:27 PM »
Found the thread and it seems to be well over 800 US "Todd's price"

In another word, you are almost better off buying a special which already has a tach build in from the factory if that is a must for you.
I have the V7iii Special, I went and had a look this evening, it took me less than 5 minutes to remove the dash and unplug it, (3mm Allen & Torx screwdriver)
The speedo and tack are joined together but I doubt this is for anything more than convenience each one has its own connector.
The speedo has about 20 wires because it has the idiot lights etc, the Tach seems to have the same multiple pin plug but. only 5 wires installed.
Update: I suspect these wires are +12V, -12V, a dial lamp, CAN Hi & CAN Lo, I looked on the Speedhut site you can buy a configurable CANbus Tach for less than $100, The only problem I see going that way (Speedhut gauges call for CAN (J1979) protocol after 2008) They list several countries that specify this but Itay is not one of them so you would need to do some checking. The Speedhut gauges show a different CANbus connector, I think its the same one Guzzidiag use so it may be possible to connect it to the diagnostic port.
If you go the Guzzi route it looks as though you would need a new sub loom with the extra multi pin plug and a tach of course.
So obviously to install an OEM tach you need this 5 wire loom, I don't know if it would be in place on the non tach bikes. I don't know where this loom goes to, It disappears down the same tubing as the main loom. If there is anyone in the Vancouver area with a single gauge V7iii or late model V9 send me a PM with phone No and we can do a better comparison, when the weather smartens up of course.
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I suspect the loom I see probably goes to another assembly where it branches out to the various sensors, perhaps near the ECU
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 07:24:02 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Mc Tes

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2020, 05:26:56 AM »
When you see the lay-out drawn by Mt. Bill you see the five wires where Killy_Roy speaks about.
So an original tacho (parts here to find - rember not to add the speedo you already got)  can be added if you know where to find the connection.
These five wires are to be on the tacho (26 pin bus) pin 1 CAN - H signal -- pin 8 CAN - L signal -- Pin 19 Go to Fuse D  5A - Pin 21 goes to Fuse C 15 A.
On the electrical lat-out there is on every Guzzi V7 III drawn a connector called the Bluedash pre-connector.
Can someone wha has a bike to his disposal (mine is still in prep for first ride) make picture of this connector. (should have 8 poles or les if the diagnostic pin are speparated - as I see on some lay-outs)
If this connector is there the you have already four of the five pins and is only the 5A wire to be added to make up an tacho connector.
I think it is worth to investigate this path.
Hope to read some reactions on ythis idea.

Marcel - Belgium

https://www.parts-motoguzzi.com/moto-guzzi-motorcycles/750-MOTO-GUZZI-MOTORCYCLES/V7/2018/V7-III-Milano-750-E4-ABS/Lights--Instruments/Instruments/1350/33/7292/2829

Offline Mc Tes

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2020, 05:36:40 AM »
Forgott to mention that pin 7 from the 26 pin tacho bus goes to the eart connecton (ground).

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2020, 08:19:44 AM »
Bill - PM me your actual email address and I'll send you the .pdf wiring diagrams for the V7 III Special and Stone. It sure looks like the tach hooks into the can-bus somehow but it's not clear how that's done. Perhaps the tach is smart enough to pull the RPM data off the buss and all you have to to is tap into it (and the lighting leads from the speedo)?



warning poetry

Oops I didnt notice this, surely they include the plug and wires if you order the tach from Guzzi.
The wiring doesn't appear to double back to the speedo, it runs down the same jacket though, it must terminate at the other end out of sight perhaps there is another connector down near the ECU.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 08:26:51 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Mc Tes

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2020, 10:10:13 AM »
At Kiwi_Roy : here you can order all teh pieces to assemble the tacho.
https://www.parts-motoguzzi.com/moto-guzzi-motorcycles/750-MOTO-GUZZI-MOTORCYCLES/V7/2018/V7-III-Milano-750-E4-ABS/Lights--Instruments/Instruments/1350/33/7292/2829
Mossing a connector 26 poles to make te lead connection neede to make function the tacho.
For 3 of them it is no problem I supose : A ground connection on pin 7 - a 5 A connection from Fuse D - A 15 A connection from fuse C
Remains the two Can wires H and Low (cable that has to made (it must be a twisted pair of wires shielde or not?)

I looked a bit further and found out all the V7 II 's have a Bluedash connector. This means a Bluethooth Dashbord connection and it is writen on the connectoe MGMP.
Here we take the two missing connections the H and L can wires. Have to investigate the pin lay-out of this connector as I found contradicting info about it.
Once this solved a Tacho can be mounted.

So far so good.

Marcel

Offline Mc Tes

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Re: Add tachometer to new V7 III Carbon Dark
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2020, 10:22:35 AM »
Correction V7 III' s have a....

Look here to find more info : a good workshop
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_v7-iii-abs_en.pdf

Marcel - Belgiu¨m

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***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
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