1400 Touring oil leak:does this make sense?

[JohninVT]

I finally tore my bike apart to find the oil leak I've had for months.  I found that my charcoal canister was completely full of oil.  It's been upside down draining for two days and it's still dripping.  I'm assuming the oil was overfilled at some point(probably by me), the engine wasn't venting properly and when it's pressurized it pukes oil everywhere. 

I'm going to remove the California emissions required canister and re-plumb the vent lines.  I'm hoping this solves the problem. I'm not buying a new canister.  I don't expect it to run better or have any effect other than to simplify the overflow venting.  I'll be more careful in the future during oil changes.         

Does my diagnosis and approach make sense?   

[Ncdan]

Glad you found the problem John. I was a little concerned for you. Do you know how much over full it was, for our future reference?

[JohninVT]

I'm not sure I've even identified the problem, which is why I was bouncing it off the collective.  I think I must have done something really stupid and overfilled it by half a quart or something for it to have been so plugged. 

[fotoguzzi]

I don't pretend to know the system but isn't the canister for fuel vapor recovery? by what path did the oil get there? is your airbox saturated too?

[Perazzimx14]

I'm with fotoguzzi not sure how oil got in there as it should only be subject to gasoline and gasoline fumes????

At any rate, remove and bypass the charcoal canister.

 

[JohninVT]

The Airbox was a mess and had to be mopped out.  The canister was full of fuel and oil.  Like I said...I'm open to thoughts.  I just can't see any other cause. 

[Aaron D.]

Apparently the crankcase breather vents to the canister-actually makes sense. Though I have not viewed a 1400 setup.

[Kev m]

Apparently the crankcase breather vents to the canister-actually makes sense. Though I have not viewed a 1400 setup.

I was sitting here thinking that's the only way this could happen.

So John, you might want to consider making a catch can to which to connect the breather line. You can check/drain it periodically as needed. But that way it won't drip oil and it is always going to carry some oil mist to the breather even if it isn't overfilled.

[JohninVT]

I was sitting here thinking that's the only way this could happen.

So John, you might want to consider making a catch can to connect the breather line to. You can check/drain it periodically as needed. But the way it won't drip oil an it is always going to carry some oil mist to the breather even if it isn't overfilled.

Good idea.  Thanks to all for the pointers.  I'll finish it up tomorrow and see what the results are. 

[guzzisteve]

"Does my diagnosis and approach make sense?"      Yes  and next time you change oil, fill filter and add 3qts or lts then run engine, check, never add what book says.

[Ncdan]

I hope you guys can figure this one out as I have enough problems with my 1400 trying to figure why my URGENT SERVICE system keeps coming on sporadically for no reason:(

[JohninVT]

I hope you guys can figure this one out as I have enough problems with my 1400 trying to figure why my URGENT SERVICE system keeps coming on sporadically for no reason:(

Over the course of my 6-7 bike Italian ownership experience I've found that the single most important factor in being happy with one  is accepting that you will have to walk at some point.  I'm not saying that you're going to have to walk.  I'm saying that if you accept that you might... you'll be a lot happier.  It's a philosophical thing.  I honestly don't care how many people on this board claim that they've put tens of thousands of miles on their Guzzi's without a single issue.  I think those people are huffing model glue or have advanced dementia so they don't remember anything past their steel cut oats for breakfast, that they drooled back into the bowl because they forgot to swallow.  I would never, ever go on a long trip on a Guzzi without plenty of money in reserve to trailer it home.   

You can't buy a Maserati and expect it to have the same maintenance needs as a Toyota.  For everyone's cliched references to agricultural machinery, the Guzzi is a handbuilt machine produced in small quantities by a workforce that may or may not be on strike or drunk on any given day.  The engines might not be a technical tour de force but the electronics and design work is at the forefront of today's motorcycles. 

I've eventually gotten sick of every motorcycle I've ever owned and sold it for something else.  Of the 40+ I've had I can't think of one that I would want to keep for another 20 or 30 years because I no longer collect them.  I ride them.  When the hassle vs. reward ratio of a Guzzi exceeds my enjoyment of riding it....I get rid of it but I put up with a LOT more from a Guzzi than I ever would a Japanese motorcycle.             

[Vagrant]

I hope you guys can figure this one out as I have enough problems with my 1400 trying to figure why my URGENT SERVICE system keeps coming on sporadically for no reason:(

Maybe it is it's way of screaming (I'm drowning in oil).
sorry I couldn't help myself. first scotch of the day.

[JohninVT]

Success!  Removed the canister, adjusted the valves and changed the oil.  The manual says 4 liters.  3.5 liters fills it to the top mark on the dipstick.  Took it for a couple mile spin, checked the oil level and looked for leaks.  Everything was good so I just did a great 80 mile loop.  Life is good.

[Ncdan]

Well there you go john👍

[Kjon]

I think you’ll find you still have too much oil in it.. I’ve changed mine many times now, I put 3 litres in initially & top up if required to no more than the halfway mark on the dipstick. Your bike may be different but Ive found that any more & it will just blow it out into the air box.

Jon

[lucian]

I think you�ll find you still have too much oil in it.. I�ve changed mine many times now, I put 3 litres in initially & top up if required to no more than the halfway mark on the dipstick. Your bike may be different but Ive found that any more & it will just blow it out into the air box.

Jon

                  This has been my experience as well, Fill to half way on the stick with bike level and dipstick pushed, but not screwed in. Check the airbox drain tube often.

[Ncdan]

Looks like this mystery has been solved and you can bet that this information provided here will be applied when my first oil change I do on my Touring 1400 gets here in a couple thousand miles. Thanks John for sharing and for all the responses from the guys!

[Chuck in Indiana]

I would never, ever go on a long trip on a Guzzi without plenty of money in reserve to trailer it home.   

I totally disagree with that. I have never had to trailer one home, and I don't expect to. Guzzis *do* require more maintenance than mass produced motorcycles, though.

[Ncdan]

I totally disagree with that. I have never had to trailer one home, and I don't expect to. Guzzis *do* require more maintenance than mass produced motorcycles, though.

And little as your u think about it it's not the norm as most " hand made" products are much better made than mass produced. Not trashing the company as I have enjoyed my last 3 Guzzis but I must agree with John, when on the road and away from home one needs a backup plan to get home as the nearest dealership could be a state away and the parts needed a month away:(

[Kev m]

I'm not sure whose argument this supports, but I did ride it home.

[JohninVT]

I think you�ll find you still have too much oil in it.. I�ve changed mine many times now, I put 3 litres in initially & top up if required to no more than the halfway mark on the dipstick. Your bike may be different but Ive found that any more & it will just blow it out into the air box.

Jon

I put 3 liters in at first.  It was barely touching the bottom mark.  Another half liter filled it to just barely touching the top mark.  I ended up putting about 100 miles on the bike yesterday and the overfill tube is bone dry.  I plan on another couple hundred miles today.  You can bet I'll be checking it a half dozen times during the ride.  I don't understand why the manual calls for 4 liters when that's so obviously wrong.  That's not a little, meaningless mistake.  The oil capacity spec. is one of the half dozen or so technical spec's that should be absolutely, positively accurate in the manual but......oh well.  Typical Guzzi.  If it's like every other Guzzi I'll be replacing the oil pressure sending unit and the half plastic fuel filter in the tank next.

It's going to be sunny and 85 today.  The Ginger Princess asked if we can do the Five Gap ride in northern VT.  We'll stop in Burlington for lunch and people watch on Church Street for a while.  Maybe we'll hit the Champlain Islands too.  Life could be worse.

Obligatory Ginger Princess photo:       



the neem tree poem urdu translation

[Zoom Zoom]

<snip>
I think those people are huffing model glue or have advanced dementia so they don't remember anything past their steel cut oats for breakfast, that they drooled back into the bowl because they forgot to swallow.
<snip> 

You're being a bit harsh aren't you? It sounds as if you're calling Guzzi people a bunch if liars. I could go on, but I won't.

John Henry

[Kev m]

I don't understand why the manual calls for 4 liters when that's so obviously wrong.  That's not a little, meaningless mistake.  The oil capacity spec. is one of the half dozen or so technical spec's that should be absolutely, positively accurate in the manual but......oh well.  Typical Guzzi. 

Tough to say.

I can only think of Honda that regularly gives multiple oil capacity specs:

* Drain and refill only
* Drain with filter replacement
* Overhaul

I tend to think many manufacturers give only the last.

I feel like I only fill all of my dipstick checked air-cooled motorcycles to about halfway up the generous range dipstick and at that point I'm somewhere in the half a quart or more under the stated "capacity".

On the flip side I feel like most of my automotive engines get filled to actual stated capacity.

Or maybe the difference is that when capacity is 2-3 quarts a half quart less feels significant, but when capacity is 5-6 quarts that half doesn't seem like much or better yet disappears into that sump/tank without seeming to make much of a difference.


Bottom line I fill every motor shy of capacity by 1/2-1 quart, run the motor, recheck, and top off to whatever level I use.

[JohninVT]

You're being a bit harsh aren't you? It sounds as if you're calling Guzzi people a bunch if liars. I could go on, but I won't.

John Henry

Really?  I'm sarcastically/humorously calling out Guzzisti who make excuses for poor quality control and less than stellar reliability.  Or those who think it's normal to have the exact same things break on Guzzi's for the last twenty years, through every model iteration.  Or those who think the technical specifications for oil capacity being off by nearly 25% isn't kind of a big deal. 

1)It's no secret the average age of the posters here is, ahem...advanced.  2)There was an eleventy billion page thread about steel cut oats a few years ago.  I thought my over the top sentence about drooling oatmeal back into the bowl was a cue that I wasn't being serious.

I'm going to wash my bike and go for a ride.  Lighten up, Francis.                 

[Kjon]

I agree, 4 litres is confusing, but think you’ll find that is the total capacity, ie what they fill with at the factory. There’s a far amount of oil left in the engine & oil cooler once you’ve drained the sump.
Are you checking with the engine hot, & the bike vertical?
I certainly don’t worry about running my oil level in the bottom half of the dipstick, once there it doesn’t use a drop.

Jon

[Chuck in Indiana]

All I'm going to say about reliability is I've now kept 14 Guzzis, none of which failed to get me home. <shrug>

Oops, forgot the V700 which crashed and burned when that stupid fuel crossover came apart.. but that was on me.  At any rate, it didn't need a trailer to bring it home. There wasn't enough left. 

[Ncdan]

I understand Johns analysts and I'm sure it is Partly due to the frustration of dealing with oil running everywhere for no apparent or obvious reason. I made some fairly negative remarks about our beloved Guzzis while going through all the frustration with the dreaded URGENT SERVICE and limp mode issue with my 1400 tourer, which I can't address any further because it's not activated in the last two rides. That's the frustration because I'm getting ready for a planned extended trip next week with several of my retired buddies and I really don't want to breakdown in front of them and yes some of these issues are totally unnecessary for a new bike with less than 3k miles.
Anyhow I'm just glad Johns is fixed and I now know how to eliminate another possible guzzi gremlin camping out in mine😂

[mjptexas]

I would never, ever go on a long trip on a Guzzi without plenty of money in reserve to trailer it home.   

Since 1968 I've had to trailer two bikes - one was a Honda and the other a BMW (in all fairness, the BMW had blown a rear tire, but I was A 100 miles from anyplace that could that could fix it.

I think the 'trailer reserve' is a requirement for any motorcycle - some just require a bigger reserve than others :). Like a lot of insurance policies, many of us may never use it.

I figure there are two bike options that mitigate the problem:
1) Buy a Road King - there is a dealer about every 50 miles in the U.S. (Not vouching for the quality or reputation of these dealers).
2) Buy a Goldwing - about the same number of dealers, but these beasts hardly ever break (so my friends tell me).

There are upsides and downsides to hand-built motorcycles, like a Guzzi - craftsmanship and quality are usually a cut above, but, humans make mistakes.

My wife's stepbrother was looking for a different motorcycle.  He asked be about Guzzis - told him they are an acquired taste.  If  Luigi wasn't hung over after a big soccer match, then the build quality is usually top shelf.  Otherwise, mysterious problems can appear.  This guy is arguably closing on a million miles of seat time, if he has not already achieved it (has been from the Midwest to Alaska 3 times that I know of).  In spite of my warnings he bought a nice used Norge for his next mount.  It will be interesting to hear his assessment.

[oldbike54]

 Dang there Vermont , maybe it is you who should lighten up . Do we understand ?

 Dusty