BMW Toaster values...? Obviously no Guzzi content

[radguzzi]

So I have this thing for twins, Guzzi, HD, BMW, Hondas, Yamahas.. I own all those in fact.

The opportunity to purchase a '73 R75/5 Toaster tank BMW has popped up and really don't know the value of these older Airheads.  I also happen to know that there are a bunch of you folks here that are BMW-philes too so I am needing some help.

The one that is available has not run for ten (10) years and owned by the same fellow for thirty (30) years. 

My question is:  As a non-runner that is complete, original and not molested, what is the value of said Beemer...?


Thanks,
Rob

[oldbike54]

 The fact that it hasn't ran for ten years isn't all that big a deal . Condition of paint , condition of the aluminum wheels and hubs , are the forks straight, etc ? Plan on new steering head bearings , which isn't difficult but don't buy one of the useless race pullers , weld a short bead into the outer race and whack the bead with a drift .

 OK , as for worth , last I knew the R75 Toasters were really starting to come up in value . W/O seeing pictures , $4K +- seems a good place to start . I sold an R60 Toaster that was broken and very faded but straight for a grand not long ago , and could have got more .

 Hope this helps

 Dusty

[RinkRat II]

    Here's a comparison for you in Idaho........
       https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/53911457

     Happy Hunting,  Paul B

[radguzzi]

The fact that it hasn't ran for ten years isn't all that big a deal . Condition of paint , condition of the aluminum wheels and hubs , are the forks straight, etc ? Plan on new steering head bearings , which isn't difficult but don't buy one of the useless race pullers , weld a short bead into the outer race and whack the bead with a drift .

 OK , as for worth , last I knew the R75 Toasters were really starting to come up in value . W/O seeing pictures , $4K +- seems a good place to start . I sold an R60 Toaster that was broken and very faded but straight for a grand not long ago , and could have got more .

 Hope this helps

 Dusty

Thanks Dusty,

I am going to have an in-person peek at it this morning.  Part of my inspection is always check for steering head bearing looseness as well, bring a plug wrench to pull the plugs, shove in into four gear and roll it forward to be certain that it is not stuck.

Photo below, it does have the side covers and seat rail.  I am not certain that the brown seat cover is OEM, I'll ask.  The R75 was owned by the seller's recently deceased Brother for thirty years, still, it is fourty-five years young.

Appreciate the input, you too RinkRat.

Best,
Rob

[oldbike54]

 Rob , I don't remember anything but Black seat covers . What's the mileage ? Probably plan on at least exhaust valves also .

 Dusty

[radguzzi]

Rob , I don't remember anything but Black seat covers . What's the mileage ? Probably plan on at least exhaust valves also .

 Dusty

I have seen a couple of brown seats on the early 70's 75 but only a couple, usually on green painted models.  Odd.


For some silly reason, the mileage has not yet come up in conversation, I'll know in a couple of hours.


So what on earth is the exhaust valve issue...?   

Thanks,
rad

[radguzzi]

The mileage is 29K and some change.

Anything in particular that Might need to be addressed with that mileage...?  What is the fial drive maintenance that needs to be done periodically...?  Shaft spline greasing maybe..? 

Thanks,
Rob

[JJ]

Thanks Dusty,

I am going to have an in-person peek at it this morning.  Part of my inspection is always check for steering head bearing looseness as well, bring a plug wrench to pull the plugs, shove in into four gear and roll it forward to be certain that it is not stuck.

Photo below, it does have the side covers and seat rail.  I am not certain that the brown seat cover is OEM, I'll ask.  The R75 was owned by the seller's recently deceased Brother for thirty years, still, it is fourty-five years young.

Appreciate the input, you too RinkRat.

Best,
Rob

If it has been sitting for a long time...it will require $parts$ and time and work.  IMHO - from the photo - $3K-$3.5K.
 
Once completely sorted and running, however, they are lovely machines!

[oldbike54]

 Rob , the BMW valves were two piece , and remember this engine was built to run on leaded gas . Replacing the exhaust valves is more of a precautionary measure than anything . I ran mine one mile over the limit and had an exhaust valve shed the tulip at about 70 MPH . Of course that engine had well over 100K miles , that's the reason for the mileage question . Easy enough to keep an eye on the valve lash , if the clearance begins changing rapidly that is a good indicator the valve is stretching. These are really tough engines , the cranks and rods are overbuilt , high capacity oil pumps keep the bearings in good shape , and the cast iron cylinder liners are tough . Parts , both OEM and aftermarket are still available , and not all that expensive . The carb diaphragms will need replaced for sure , last time I checked those were like $12.00 apiece for the kit .

 Dusty

[ohiorider]

Maybe some of these bikes will provide a basis for comparison.
From IBMWR (this link may take you to main site.  Select 1969 - 1995 R bikes)
https://ibmwr.org/index.php/ibmwr-marketplace/browse-ads/20/bikes-for-sale/

From BMWMOA Classifieds
http://marketplace.bmwmoa.org/classified/classic-airheads-browse-94.aspx

Bob

Note:  Although the airheads are relatively simple machines, parts aren't inexpensive.  And as you know, cosmetic and body parts for older machines often don't exist, unless you go to Beemer Boneyard or Re-psycle.  (they often have some nice bikes they've rebuilt.)
https://re-psycle.com/

New Parts from Max BMW
https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/DiagramsMain.aspx?vid=51885&rnd=07242017

[oldbike54]

The mileage is 29K and some change.

Anything in particular that Might need to be addressed with that mileage...?  What is the fial drive maintenance that needs to be done periodically...?  Shaft spline greasing maybe..? 

Thanks,
Rob

 If that is accurate then it is a $4K bike easily .

 BMW's ran separate oil supplies for the bevel box and drive shaft housing , easy to change , but do be careful removing the drain plugs , Kroil the areas first . The bike will need a clutch spline greasing , which isn't all that difficult , it does require a specialty socket to remove the large nuts that hold the swingarm . Once lubed with a good grease it won't need doing again for a long time . Yes , the bevel box will need some grease . One thing about the airhead shaft system , they are almost indestructible if kept serviced , the seals seem to last like forever , and the U-joint is always running in oil .

 Dusty

[radguzzi]

Dusty,
Two piece valves..?  'Splain that would ya...?  I underdtansd regarding changing due to new fuel having no lead however, the configuration of two piece has me scratchin' me 'ead...

You guys are great.

Thanks,
rad

[Chuck in Indiana]

Dusty,
Two piece valves..?  'Splain that would ya...?  I underdtansd regarding changing due to new fuel having no lead however, the configuration of two piece has me scratchin' me 'ead...

You guys are great.

Thanks,
rad

It's very common. The head is an alloy that is heat resistant, the stem is hard. They will be friction welded together, from memory. 

[slopokes]

Brown seat did not come on the /5 or /6—did come on r65– paid $1k for this one running 🏃‍♀️

[ohiorider]

Ted Porter (Beemershop) talks the talk on airhead head work. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1rI3pog1DU

In retrospect, I'd have sent my heads off to him a few years ago.  At that time, I'd heard nothing negative about the all stainless aftermarket valves, so I had the shop order Black Diamond valves (Kibblewhite.)  It was a cost thing.  To date, I've put 27,000 miles on these valves.  My seats weren't replaced, but were refaced.  Nothing out of the ordinary has resulted.  Valves seem to hold their clearances well.  Leak down results were good a while back.  But if the heads ever come off again, I'll replace with OEM two piece valves.

OEM       Intake valves (2) $184.00.  Exhaust valves (2) $280.00
Aftermkt Intake valves (2) $130.00   Exhaust valves (2) $130.00

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I am going to have an in-person peek at it this morning.  Part of my inspection is always check for steering head bearing looseness as well, bring a plug wrench to pull the plugs, shove in into four gear and roll it forward to be certain that it is not stuck.

It has a kickstarter, so it's easy enough to check if it's stuck. 

I would still put it in gear and roll it, pull in the clutch to make sure that releasing. One of my upcoming jobs is freeing a stuck clutch on an '84 R100RS that sat for only a few months, yet is stuck and no matter what we try won't release.

[Roebling3]

A one time accomplice, after pulling the plugs, poured ~liter of Varsol into the clutch housing . He rolled the bike about and adds the plugs. The next day or so, in gear, he tries rocking the bike in gear.
Or something violent? Same as above. Put the bike on a rear stand. Start it in gear. Hang on and have a friend drop the back end. Desperate times, desperate measures?
    (I boiled the clutch disc in baking soda, to rid it of Varsol).R3~

[arveno]

Nice bike I would buy it ASAP.
I had one in red and rode it 75 k miles , sold it to a guy in Brooklyn... still running without issues.
I remember the seat had a metal railing in the back...
the tachometer needles usually with the heat /sun crack or bend.
Kick start is a good feature to have when the started bottom act up.
I remember the gas mileage was insane... like 55 mpg easy...
Rode it all day long at 70/75 mph never missed a bit .
Front brake in the rain feels “ funny “
Good luck

For part and stuff Anton in Va is the guy to go.

http://www.largiader.com/

[tazio]

Bought an R75/5 that came up when I was looking for an old Ambassador.
Side tracked me from Guzzis for 15 years.
No regrets.
Get this bike and ride it everywhere like I did.
Looks like original exhaust? Nice.

[wirespokes]

I've been into airheads since 1990 so know them pretty well. That looks like a pretty nice bike. The seat cover isn't stock, but looks well done. I'd use it.

It's a toaster - signifying the chrome tank panels. Originally that was a derogatory term, nobody wanted them. They cheaped out putting all that gaudy chrome on the BMWs. It was actually the importer - Butler and Smith - who requested them along with the small tank, chrome side covers, tall bars, and other odds and ends. They saw Harleys selling well so figured copying their successful actions would help their sales. Wrong demographic! The BMW crowd didn't like the plastic fenders, chrome panels, small tank or high bars.

But now things have changed and the toasters are very desirable. I think they were only offered in 73. The earlier /5 had a short wheel base, but some had handling issues (tank slappers) the factory fixed with a longer swingarm in 73. You can see if it's got the longer swingarm by looking at the driveshaft side where a section was welded in. I think it was about 1.5".

I wouldn't worry about the valves or seats. About 1984 BMW got the valves and seat issues sorted out (due to unleaded fuel), but the bikes earlier than 81 do pretty well on unleaded. BMW was being pro-active and changed the seat material in 1981 and for four years had valve recession issues due to the seats not transferring heat from the exh valves to the head. Valves would over heat and stretch.

The gauges had plastic needles and they tend to warp up or deteriorate with age. After ten years sitting (and who knows how long before that it was last serviced?) I'd be careful of the gauges. They're not cheap to replace, so take care of them! If they start to act up - bouncy needles, noises, screeching - disconnect the cable immediately!

What sort of environment was it stored in? What's the asking price? Three to four K sounds reasonable - they're worth more if running and all spiffed up. They are going up in value and desirable bikes that can be ridden daily. But be careful of the front brake, I've heard it can be grabby first thing in the morning.

[NC Steve]

I was waiting for someone to mention it, and Wirespokes just did. The '73.5 models had a longer wheelbase, which improved handling, and as BMW only made the model for a few months, will have a higher value. 1974 brought the new /6 model bikes.

If you want to check the serial # here, you can find lots of great info, such as date of manufacture, available color schemes, original pricing, any recall notices, etc. Great find, good luck! 

http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/bmwmodels.htm

[wirespokes]

Some guys prefer the shorter wheelbase and don't have handling problems. One of the authorities on /5s, Duane Ausherman, claims the handling issues were due to misaligned front forks, and that very well could be. He says they came from the factory that way, with fork tubes that weren't parallel or equidistant top to bottom, and gives a procedure how to correct.

[jas67]

Some guys prefer the shorter wheelbase and don't have handling problems. One of the authorities on /5s, Duane Ausherman, claims the handling issues were due to misaligned front forks, and that very well could be. He says they came from the factory that way, with fork tubes that weren't parallel or equidistant top to bottom, and gives a procedure how to correct.

I have a short wheelbase /5, and an R90S (which is a /6 generation bike for those that those that aren't in the know), which of course, is a long wheelbase.

The short wheelbase definitely feels lighter due to the quicker steering.    I prefer it on twisty back roads.   The long wheelbase makes a better highway bike.

[SemperVee]

My first BMW 73/R75 long frame Customized - That crazy key in the headlight with great sounding pipes.  Did love the kick out starter with wixom dustbin fairing of sorts with a big 10 inch halogen headlight.   I think anything that runs is worth $2000 - $2500.
 Smile.