tubeless wire wheels

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ok, bear with me. I've never had a street bike with wire wheels. In my dotage, the chances of me pulling a tire off on the side of the road, patching a tube and spooning it back on are slim and none.
I thought I'd give a go at making the G5 wheels tubeless, so pulled the tire and tube off. The wheel has 100,000 miles of service, and is in fairly good shape for what it's been through.
What I'm wondering is this: Those vertical lines on the side of the wheel look to me to be asking for a leak.
2019-02-11_03-02-45 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
To those of you that have done it, am I being overly worried? I would *hate* to spend the time this is going to take to clean up the wheel, prep, spooge, tape, etc. and find out they leak.
TIA

[Wayne Orwig]

Pointless, IMHO. Patching a tube is not that hard.

That pattern in the side it to help lock the tire so it does not slip. If it slips, it can rip the stem out of the tube. No more tube, and you don't need to worry much about a slipping tire. So, seals those grooves if you are going that route.
Sounds like a lot of work to me though.
Maybe bead blast it first to clean it up.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Hmmm never thought of bead blast. I've been going at it with an aluminum toothbrush, rag, and lacquer thinner. Nasty work.

[Huzo]

I just cleaned mine prior to applying 3M tape. A brass bristled rotary wire brush on a drill worked beautifully, I do however feel that you'll not get a reliable seal on the rim with those grooves, they do look very deep.
The spoke heads also will not be easy to get a reliable seal given that they are not blind as on the Norge.
Much as I would hate to throw my hands up and retreat, I think I'd leave it as mentioned.
You can however, obtain and bore your own rims and go with with blind nipples and o rings apparently..

[Perazzimx14]

Get everything good and clean then a smear of silicone caulk to fill in the grooves.

You may find that you did spend a lot of time (well really what and hour or so?) cleaning prepping and taping and they still leak. But that part of the fun of nothing ventured nothing gained.

Put some beef strips on your new dehydrator and while they are drying out to jerky you can work on you wheels to pass the time.

[acguzzi]

I dont think the sides contribute to much of the sealing, its more important for the tire to have a flat surface on the inside, whenever I've had sealing issues on car tires it has had nothing to do with where those lines are.

[Chuck in Indiana]

You may find that you did spend a lot of time (well really what and hour or so?)

I've already spent close to an hour, and it's not even close. I've sort of cleaned about 6 inches. It's pretty nasty looking. The picture I posted is where I've already cleaned. 

[Frenchfrog]

Looks like  bead blasting would a lot quicker, better and less hassle Chuck! Never had any trouble with tubes either though....

[Perazzimx14]

I've already spent close to an hour, and it's not even close. I've sort of cleaned about 6 inches. It's pretty nasty looking. The picture I posted is where I've already cleaned. 

I'd agree if that's all the further you got in an hour then media blasting would be a lot better option. I just did the SP fork lowers and rotors at work today. It took longer to mask off the top of the lower than it did to blast all the old paint off.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yeah, there would be a *lot* of masking involved. I'm not *sure* it would get this stuff that's on the wheel. Solvent sort of gets it.. I kind of get the feeling I would end up with sticky grit.  I'll give it a go on a small area tomorrow.

[Perazzimx14]

A brass cup brush on a drill motor would also be a choice for cleaning up the crust.

[Chuck in Indiana]

How about down in the spoke nipple wells? I'm totally not into taking these things apart to do that.. Maybe it's not necessary?

[Perazzimx14]

The tape won't squish down tight to the spoke nipple so "wells" don't have to be sparkling clean. The tape will stick to the wheel so thats got to be clean.

[Aldo]

Check out this thread, some good information here:

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=86599.0

[jacksonracingcomau]

A brass cup brush on a drill motor would also be a choice for cleaning up the crust.

swot I did, brass shone, alloy clean, alcohol for finish
grooves for anti spin
spun tyre is out of balance
 no leaks there on mine
but
one wheel had steel nipples, I sandblasted the rust off
less frugal would have replaced spokes and nipples
oe. ss and brass easy ,  no rust to worry about
do west ham test before refitting to bike
i have outside bath but any trough will do  ,submerge at 50 psi

[bigbikerrick]

I converted the spoked wheels of my 73 eldorado years ago, they had the same tire retention grooves, but they did not affect the sealing of the bead. I used permatex grey RTV to seal mine up.
No problems in over 3 years of use.
 I used the 3M 5200  marine urethane caulk to seal up my 03 Cali Aluminum wheels, and they have been great also. 3M makes a fast cure 5200, and a slow cure 5200. I used the fast cure.
Rick.

[Huzo]

The tape won't squish down tight to the spoke nipple so "wells" don't have to be sparkling clean. The tape will stick to the wheel so thats got to be clean.

I imagine the pressure will push it into the well easily enough.

[jacksonracingcomau]

I imagine the pressure will push it into the well easily enough.

swat happened to mine
tape goes 3-1 or so easy fills wells,  cleaning worth it. imho
iif job is worth doing, blah. blah

[Huzo]

swat happened to mine
tape goes 3-1 or so easy fills wells,  cleaning worth it. imho
iif job is worth doing, blah. blah

Now you were on the MGOCV ride to Wye River weren't you a couple of weeks back ?

[Perazzimx14]

I'm taking the cast ront wheel off the SP1000 to work to media blast today. Then I think I'm going to tap the valve stem hole with an 1/8" IPS thread and tighten in on of these little devils and go tubeless after a repaint.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Alrighty, now! Bead blast works a treat. No need bead blasting the rotors, spokes, bearings,  though..
One other question. Is there a special valve stem for this application? No, I haven't searched..yet.
2019-02-12_10-31-55 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

[Perazzimx14]

Alrighty, now! Bead blast works a treat. No need bead blasting the rotors, spokes, bearings,  though..
One other question. Is there a special valve stem for this application? No, I haven't searched..yet.
2019-02-12_10-31-55 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

Looks like a Guzzi snare drum!

[Chuck in Indiana]

<rimshot> 

[Perazzimx14]

<rimshot> 

I got my SP wheel blasted today. It took almost an hour with a industrial 4 foot square blast cabinet backed my a huge scroll compressor that doesn't run out of air. Whatever paint was on the wheel came off easily the primer or base coast must have been soft so the media could not shatter it. It took a long time and there are lots of nook and crannies on the SP wheel. But progress was made

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_tires_-_tubeless_conversion.html

[Roebling3]

Life is too short for me to do any of that. Neither could I satisfy myself that paint, tapes, silicone sealers, et. al. would holdup, - despite the claims. - - And it's so non-factory. Lucky ol' bastard that I am I've had one MC tire flat in 70 years riding. I was going to a 'breakfast'. Plugged it. Aired it. Gone in 10 - 15 minutes. I've cold or hot patched dozens of bicycle, car and truck tires and pinched a few tubes.
I swapped the wheels to cast, on my V7 3 before it left the dealer. I still have bikes w/wire spoke wheels though. They look nice, too. Still wouldn't go beyond circling the ranch with them. Solutions are best when they are permanent.  R3~

[jacksonracingcomau]

Alrighty, now! Bead blast works a treat. No need bead blasting the rotors, spokes, bearings,  though..
One other question. Is there a special valve stem for this application? No, I haven't searched..yet.
2019-02-12_10-31-55 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

prob too late
I used long threaded valves with rubber washer both sides of rim available 90 deg or straight chromed steel. Did try lovely alloy ones but thres too short to be happy. to use them you could mill rim to suit, doable

[Chuck in Indiana]

I thought there might be valve stems with a radius  that would fit the arc in the bottom of the wheel more closely. So far, I haven't found any. I suppose that having a rubber gasket on each side of the rim would help.
Bead blasting worked better than I expected to clean them up, FWIW. I'm confident that whatever I use to stick on the wheel will have a good shot at that. 

[John Croucher]

I converted from steel spoke to Excel aluminum rims. The Excel rims do not have the notches, they are smooth.  Have not experienced any slipping or leaking problems with the tubeless set up.  The wheels actually hold air better than any motorcycle rim I have ever owned.  I used a NAPA brand motorcycle tubeless valve steam. 

Take the wheel apart and clean everything.  You will have a much better looking wheel assembly.  I started with new rim, spokes and fresh powder coated hubs.  The wheel builder used lube on the nipples that leached out. 

Wash rim and nipples in degreaser/soapy water a couple of time, blow nipples out between washes.  Wipe with denatured alcohol and use 3M Marine sealant.  I used acetone to smooth out and clean up.  I poured some acetone in a pan, dipped my finger tip in and smoothed the sealant.  (the 3M sealant is made with acetone and acetone is toxic, use at your own risk) Takes days to complete, be patient.  I put the axle thru the hub and mounted one end in a vise, pulled up a stool and started the process.   I sealed each nipple, smoothed and let set 2 days.  Added a complete layer around rim, smoothed, late set 2 days, added 3rd layer, smoothed, late set 4 days.  Installed nipple and tire. 

I also machined some material off the front brake rotor carrier and the rear hub and brake carrier. 







I cleaned up the tire bead of all molding process flash, moisten the bead with wheel bearing grease and pushed the tire on by hand.  I was surprised at how cleaning the flash of the bead made the tire go on much easier.  I used green scotch bright pad to buff the flash off.

[jacksonracingcomau]

I thought there might be valve stems with a radius  that would fit the arc in the bottom of the wheel more closely. So far, I haven't found any. I suppose that having a rubber gasket on each side of the rim would help.
Bead blasting worked better than I expected to clean them up, FWIW. I'm confident that whatever I use to stick on the wheel will have a good shot at that. 

yep minutes from done, blasting good
extreme tape will be sh1T to blanket
napa valves same as mine, rubber contorts
but I would spend a bit extra time and check for true now but you prob already have