Tire Bead seating ideas (changed title)

[Chuck in Indiana]

<Sigh> Heated the tire up, really lubed the bead area on it and rim. Nothing. Put my big strap on and cinched it down. Nope. Put on my welder's gloves heavy coat and safety glasses, sprayed starter fluid, down in the drop center, lit if off. Started a gentle fire around the rim. 
I'm off to the hardware store to see if they have an air chuck that clips on..

[Markcarovilli]

Chuck

we need to see pictures of you in your getup before you sparked the light,

the image in my mind.......

Mark

[Chuck in Indiana]

  Well, it *was* a little spooky. I'd rather be prepared and not need it rather then need it and not be prepared, and all that..

[oldbike54]

 Chuckie , something ain't right . Any chance this tire has a small whole in it somewhere ? Or the rim isn't sealing ?

 Dusty

[Chuck in Indiana]

My starter fluid is better than yours! Ha! (aerosol " diesel/tractor stuff"? that doesn't pool up...mystery deepens.)

Assuming you sprayed it INside the tire..I've never had that happen to me..ever.

I always use the safety goggles on ALL bead seating capers regardless...but fire proof clothes...?!

:-)

BTW I use the clip on chucks and you need a pretty healthy compressor to make that a difference. (not the 110V 1/2 hp but the real deal 220V 5 hp!!!

Yep, inside the tire. My compressor* is *220V 5hp.  I have it cranked up to 120 psi. Not really fire proof clothes, just protective.. Dusty just called and said he can see a viral Youtube video coming up. 
He also talked me into buying a new tire.

[John A]

The problem is the flash point on most "starter fluids" are such that they don't ignite fast enough.  It keeps the kids safe.  If you can find the stuff truck shops use,  it flashes over when it ignites creating the quick pressure we need.  it does work well and its not so scary as acetylene and oxygen.

[Perazzimx14]

Chuckie , something ain't right . Any chance this tire has a small whole in it somewhere ? Or the rim isn't sealing ?

 Dusty

Its not that the rim isn't seating the tire hasn't ballooned enough against the wall of the inner wheel to start sealing. This of it like the tire is 7/8's of the way on the rim and sealed but that last 1/8" of the tire is still below the bead letting air out faster than the compressor can pump air in.

The long and the short getting a tire to start to set the bead is pump in more volume of air than can leak out between the tire and rim.

[Perazzimx14]

The volume and pressure for this method to work would overwhelm the typical garage 20 or so gal. 3 cfm (or less)compressors.
In order to use this method, and I think its a good one you have to have a large shop type compressor. The place I do most of my tyre changes is a small shop in my garage in CA.

I have no problem with the fat radial tires when they are at least warm but the skinny bias ply tires are a challenge for my small pancake portable compressor, not enough volume or pressure.

Not a criticism of your method but you have to have some serious air for it to be successful.

This is not my method this is how tires are installed (at least for the vast majority of non-bead lock 1 piece wheels). You don't have to have an industrial compressor I've started and set 100's of motorcycle tire beads with a 3 gallon oil-less compressor with the regulator turned up as far as it'll go. Its all about how fast you can get the 3 gallon "volume" of air into the tire. If you can flood in or quickly expand (starter fluid and lighter method) more air than can leak out the tire will start to seal. Once it has started to seal you then need pressure to push the tire bead over the wheel bead. Volume then pressure.

[Bill Owens]

Chuck,

Please, please , think about getting a new tire.

[Bill Owens]

Ops, forgot

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck,

Please, please , think about getting a new tire.

No problemo.

Yep, inside the tire. My compressor* is *220V 5hp.  I have it cranked up to 120 psi. Not really fire proof clothes, just protective.. Dusty just called and said he can see a viral Youtube video coming up. 
He also talked me into buying a new tire.

Since it is now a challenge, I gave it one last try with a big car tiedown strap ratcheted around it, RuGlyde liberally applied, a clip on chuck blowing 120 psi, Austin and my hands on it, a dead blow hammer, bouncing it up and down.
I used to have a sign on my work bench at work.
"They said it couldn't be done, so I tackled it with a grin."
I couldn't do it either. 

[oldbike54]

 

 Dusty

[John A]

Tire wins? 

[oldbike54]

 It is after all a 2/3rds worn out tire with a flat spot 

 Dusty

[John A]

The cord separation doesn't even show.  Maybe put 'er on EBay

[Chuck in Indiana]

It is after all a 2/3rds worn out tire with a flat spot 

 Dusty

You exaggerate, my friend.  it's maybe 1/3 worn with a flat spot as nearly as I can tell from the previous owner's records. It has about 2000 miles on it. It'll cost me 2 dollars to get rid of it.. maybe John's idea of putting it on Ebay is sound. 

[Sasquatch Jim]

 If you guys would stop trying to mount an 18 inch tire on a 19 inch rim you might save
 some frustration.

[kballowe]

I've had them like this and you really have to have a controlled explosion either chemically or with a bunch of air real fast from a tank....

I agree.

Alternatively, I sometimes take a tire spoon and run around the rim and pull the bead back, as if I was going to de-install it - but not quite that far.  Like trying to pull it up with the iron so that it will seat. This has a tendency to pull the bead up tighter on the top and also on the bottom.  Sorta takes the slack out.

I run into this issue on a lot of those MT-90 and MU-85 bias tires.  Some are a real PITA

[twowings]

You exaggerate, my friend.  it's maybe 1/3 worn with a flat spot as nearly as I can tell from the previous owner's records. It has about 2000 miles on it. It'll cost me 2 dollars to get rid of it.. maybe John's idea of putting it on Ebay is sound. 

Auction it off at Cedar Vale!

[Chuck in Indiana]

Auction it off at Cedar Vale!

I doubt that even the denizens that show up a Cedar Vale would spend a buck on that sucker.. 

[Brand X]

I always enjoy the tire threads.. Yea, starting fluid seems like a good idea..

My tire machine with bead blast, and Cheetah will mount/inflate any motorcycle tire.. If you use a Cheetah, standing the wheel tire vertical will help when you blast the air.. Even my manual one with no issues. I would use Nomar paste/lube to help seat the bead. Also a bicycle tube around one side to help get one side seated would work too. Many ways to do it, some work sometimes, and other ways work other times.. Like balancing..Machine or manual work too.  Still hard to beat You tube for the correct info..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDJgQkfnhBc

[Triple Jim]

I had a van tire that defied all the usual methods of bead seating.   I took a piece of foam pipe insulation, the type you can slit and put over copper pipes, and shoved it between one bead and the rim.  That put the other bead against its side of the rim.  Then I put some pressure in until the one bead popped into place.  Then I removed the foam tube, and by standing on the rim and lifting the tire, was able to get the other bead to contact its side of the rim and it went on easily.

[Tom]

If you guys would stop trying to mount an 18 inch tire on a 19 inch rim you might save
 some frustration.

Jimmy, I think you have it wrong.  It's 18" tire on a 17" rim.  Chuckie can't set the bead.     

[Darren Williams]

Had a set of pickup tires I bought from Tire Rack that arrived all wrapped up and the beads squeezed together. Tried spreading them over night but no joy. Tried several of the methods said here and ended up with one stubborn tire that I just could not get both beads to contact the wheel at the same time enough to hold air.

Finally I put a small smear of form a gasket on the bead lip, let the tire bead "stick" to it for a while, then was able to lift the opposite bead against the other side of the wheel so both beads were touching. Hit it with air and the pressure did it's magic. For a while there I was quite frustrated! But eventual success made the post work beer taste way better. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

But eventual success made the post work beer taste way better. 

Well, the problem with that is I'm on the "no beer" diet right now, trying to lose several hard won Winter lbs. 

I have a new tire coming, but this thread should pretty much tell anyone finding it how to get a frustrating tire to seat. 

[Sasquatch Jim]

 Either way you won't get a bead set.
  You have the correct tire, just put a tube in it.  That always works for me.

[lucian]

Well, the problem with that is I'm on the "no beer" diet right now, trying to lose several hard won Winter lbs. 

I have a new tire coming, but this thread should pretty much tell anyone finding it how to get a frustrating tire to seat. 

Surely someone must make diet beer these days.   

[Chuck in Indiana]

Surely someone must make diet beer these days.   

That would be Shirley.. and why would you want it? 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Closure for this thread.
Literally 10 minutes from bringing the new tire into the shop to going into the tank to leak check. 
It was the old tire..
2019-02-26_07-57-53 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

[oldbike54]

 

 Dusty