The new Zero

[DougG]

Here we go again…
In the early 1900’s towns across the world sung the praises of the “horseless carriage”.  Even though these newfangled vehicles were noisy, slow and smelled bad, they had their undisputed advantages.  The towns did not have to shut down main street at least twice a year to “clean the tailings”.  In other words, horse droppings raised the level of the street until they overflowed onto the sidewalks.  When it rained, the smell, the flies and slosh was unbearable. Animal power had reached the logical end of its evolutionary limits.
Now the new horseless carriages (motorized vehicles), are pushing the limits of their evolution.  They consume huge amounts of energy.   Think of the energy consumed in the production of steel, aluminum, plastics, glass, petroleum fuel, etc.  As much as I love them, our present trove of cars and motorcycles are energy monsters.  It’s time to move on, albeit begrudgingly.  We are soiling our air, water and landfills with their production.   
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a tree-hugger.  I love my cars and bikes.   I will use them until they are no longer viable.  However, I will recognize the future of transportation, just like the town folk did in the early 20th century.

DougG

[lucian]

Here we go again…
In the early 1900’s towns across the world sung the praises of the “horseless carriage”.  Even though these newfangled vehicles were noisy, slow and smelled bad, they had their undisputed advantages.  The towns did not have to shut down main street at least twice a year to “clean the tailings”.  In other words, horse droppings raised the level of the street until they overflowed onto the sidewalks.  When it rained, the smell, the flies and slosh was unbearable. Animal power had reached the logical end of its evolutionary limits.
Now the new horseless carriages (motorized vehicles), are pushing the limits of their evolution.  They consume huge amounts of energy.   Think of the energy consumed in the production of steel, aluminum, plastics, glass, petroleum fuel, etc.  As much as I love them, our present trove of cars and motorcycles are energy monsters.  It’s time to move on, albeit begrudgingly.  We are soiling our air, water and landfills with their production.   
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a tree-hugger.  I love my cars and bikes.   I will use them until they are no longer viable.  However, I will recognize the future of transportation, just like the town folk did in the early 20th century.

DougG

There is more horses shit here than meets the eye .  ( biting tongue hard)

[Ncdan]

There is more horses shit here than meets the eye .  ( biting tongue hard)

👍👍👍

[pete roper]

Sorry Dave. I disagree. The future won't include IC as a mainstream transport motivator.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Just did the 100,000 mile service on the Prius. It is still mechanically like new. If I live long enough to buy a new car, it will no doubt be electric.

[lucian]

No offence to Doug G, I just see this whole electric vehicle thing in a different light. I currently own only two one ton trucks for my business, which currently can not be replaced by electric. Even if they could I don't think it's right that they should be forced on us. Let the free market determine what
choices are available to  people ..


I have no doubt that we will all be forced into ev's by the very same people who have made billions manipulating the cost of everything from our food to our fuel ect. ect. The fact that many people for whom ev's won't cut the mustard,at least currently, will be the ones taxed and penalized to promote the next money grab.  Truckers, farmers, construction workers, boat captains ect, hold on, for here comes a GIANT SCREWING !

[DougG]

Hi all,

Progress will be slow, but it will happen.  I am not dismissing the tremendous design, engineering and manufacturing feats we have seen, and are benefitting from.  I do take a lesson from history though.  If we don't take advantage of our local talents and make the new products that others will buy, than we can be sure that others will make them and we will buy all that wonderful stuff from them...and shutter more of our own factories.  As I said, I love my bikes and cars and will enjoy them s long as possible, but not moving forward equates to moving backward as the rest of the world passes us by.  Simple economic Darwinism.
 DougG

No offense taken, you make a good point, Dave.  And yes, someone will make $ off this new stuff.

[Chuck in Indiana]

No offence to Doug G, I just see this whole electric vehicle thing in a different light. I currently own only two one ton trucks for my business, which currently can not be replaced by electric. Even if they could I don't think it's right that they should be forced on us. Let the free market determine what
choices are available to  people ..


I have no doubt that we will all be forced into ev's by the very same people who have made billions manipulating the cost of everything from our food to our fuel ect. ect. The fact that many people for whom ev's won't cut the mustard,at least currently, will be the ones taxed and penalized to promote the next money grab.  Truckers, farmers, construction workers, boat captains ect, hold on, for here comes a GIANT SCREWING !

IMHO, the free market *will* determine what happens next. There was no government edict saying you had to get rid of your horse.  Truckers will like the instant torque of electric.

[Aaron D.]

Electric can be a few things- batteries, fuel cells so you can top up quickly, and hydrogen as fuel for IC engines.

All it takes is a few nuke plants and it can happen fast!

[LowRyter]

I think ultimately EVs are the future and will be largely driven by market forces.  EVs are already cheaper by the mile to run.  The practical limitations, like range and recharge will be overcome.  This might happen gradually or quickly with the next big tech move.

The govt will be involved with R&D, infractures, tax and incentives and regulation.  But it seems clear that EVs will be cleaner and cheaper.   And electrical power will continue to become more renewable, cleaner and sustainable.   

OTOH, I don't know what the environmental costs that are associated with the manufacturing and disposal of EV and sustainable electrical generation.  But it seems pretty clear that the advantages will outweigh the costs.

So far as hybrids, well, I wish my diesel pick up had a hybrid system.  Not just for fuel mileage but for built in generator to power my travel trailer.  Why did the automakers miss this?

[Aaron D.]

It's definitely coming if you believe in the Rivian.

[kenvil1]

...I wish my diesel pick up had a hybrid system.  Not just for fuel mileage but for built in generator to power my travel trailer.  Why did the automakers miss this?

I seem to remember that GM once produced a (quasi) hybrid truck for a brief period. Their system may have been used to propel the vehicle only from a stop, however, and perhaps to allow the engine to shut down at idle to save on fuel. I believe it's purpose had more to do with providing battery power in remote areas or at new construction zones to run power tools and lighting.

[bad Chad]

The Rivian trucks may be the real deal.
They are building them just a few miles from me in part of the now defunct Diamond Star motors plant in Normal https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2019/02/24/rivian-founder-amazon-tesla/2915832002/

[kirkemon]

I rode the Zero a year ago, then the range was about 100 miles.
On the weekends I'll still need more range, for riding to work and back, I'd like something about 100lbs. lighter.

My wife dumped her BMW for a Tesla S 90D 2 years ago, we really don't notice much increase in our electric bill, but savings on gas and maintenance on the Beemer are making up for the price of the Tesla.