Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on January 05, 2021, 06:26:39 PM
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Whenever I check Craigslist in my area and in other areas, half to a third of the bikes listed are Harleys.
Today, 62 of 118 are Harleys. These were bought by riders. Did they give up riding? Did they move on to another bike?
Where did all these Harleys come from?
There are so many for sale on all Craigslists that if I was in the market for a Harley, I would have a field day looking for one!!!
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Their widows are selling them, 'cause the dudes all caught - at Sturgis. ;)
Realistically, times are hard right now, and probably a lot of riders for whom it's just a hobby are (a) not riding much right now because of the pandemic, and/or (b) need money right now due to job loss, or business downturn.
PhilB
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I cannot speak to the nether regions from which the iron brutes emerge (do I reference the bikes or owners?), but one place I know they do NOT come from is garages of riders. You know those types, the ones who actually ride their motorcycles places and stuff. :grin:
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Their widows are selling them, 'cause the dudes all caught - at Sturgis. ;)
Realistically, times are hard right now, and probably a lot of riders for whom it's just a hobby are (a) not riding much right now because of the pandemic, and/or (b) need money right now due to job loss, or business downturn.
PhilB
+1
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They're everywhere, like cockroaches :boozing:
I got mine. Ride the hell out of it. Perfect fueling. Beautiful. Makes all the right sounds, even with the stock pipes I run.
I've met some of the most generous people (with their time) riding theirs.
But yeah, great time to pick up a Harley if you always wondered what the fuss was all about.
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I think they come from "the good land" in Algonquin :thumb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRCTc6stICc
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As long as you aren't looking at anything Shovelhead or older, Harleys are dirt cheap now. Seems like HD sold approx one billion bikes in recent decades. now the reality of market saturation vs depreciation curve cannot be avoided. Prices on used HDs were crashing well before - came to town.
You don't have to drink the kool aid or be all leather & tattoos. Get one and have some fun.
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Just another data point to consider...Up here in Vortex-Land (northern AZ), on New Year's Day, I took my wife's '67 Mustang out for a joy ride locally.
I must have counted 30-40 Big Twin Harley's passing me and all out and "In The Wind". :thumb: :cool: :smiley:
It seems out West, whenever I take a "Road Trip", the majority of motorcycles I see on the road are Big Twin Harley's...(just sayin'). Of course, because of the location, many riders fly in and RENT bike, which is OK also... :cool:
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Harley has (by far) the largest market share of large cruiser and touring bikes, so it makes sense that there would be more of those for sale than the others.
I disagree that Harleys are dirt cheap right now. According to our local dealer, they have two guys actively buying Harleys from individuals, so that they have some used ones to sell. They say that they are selling the [censored] out of everything motorsports - and that the manufacturers have pulled back most of the incentives/rebates because of the high sales numbers.
Here's our Heritage Softail. Great 2-up tour bike.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50805491996_81b3c0357e_b.jpg)
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I spent all spring looking for a nice, low milage touring Harley in the Chattanooga/Atlanta area. Couldn't find one. Of course, I wanted one that was stock or nearly so. Like looking for a unicorn. I'd see an add for a late model Electra Glide with low miles, click on the add and as soon as I saw the ape-hangers I was done.
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Three years ago my shop burned down taking my 2006 Softail. I looked everywhere at used Harleys. Everything I looked at had some kind of modification, mainly loud azz pipes and or goofy ape hangers. I passed and bought a new one. It was nowhere near the quality of my 2006. It was hot, noisy engine and terrible suspension amongst other things. I got smart and replaced it with an Audace. Noisy engine but at least I know what the noise is and why unlike the Harley. Anyway Harley has 50% of the American market so that is why you see so many. In my area Harleys and BMWs are seen the most on the highway. Harley dealers make lots of money on used bikes, they give peanuts on trade in bikes and sell them for top dollar.
Kind of a funny story, I went to the rally at the Broken Arrow last summer in Idaho. I went with two friends, one on a V7 and the other on a Lario. We were fueling up in Salmon and another Guzzi pulled in. We naturally assumed he was on the way to the rally but he didn't even know it was going on. Any way he was dumb founded when he pulled in and saw three Guzzis. He said he was doing a Four Corners ride. He had left South Carolina, been to Maine and was heading west. He had not seen another Guzzi on his trip to that point and pulled into the station and there were three right there. He was a neat guy, we all went to lunch together. He checked out the rally on his way west.
kk
kk
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duh......seems like every bike I saw this summer was a HD. I have a HD FXR I rode nearly everyday, and i rode in the Black Hills in july. I have 3 Hondas, and the Stone which is always needing somethin. I never saw one Guzzi all summer.
they sold millions of HD so of course they would be the most in the ads.
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Considering their market share over the last 20 years, is it really a surprise?
Why does anyone sell a motorcycle? To get money to spend on something else. Another bike, bills, divorce lawyer, etc.
When I sell my Harley it will because I have become too feeble to handle it. Hopefully long time from now.
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Lots of old guys bought a Harley just because they wanted on. Then they rode it for a few bar hops and parked with their golf clubs. So lots of cheap Harley garage queens.
Even better when they trade their Harleys for Ducatis and park them next to the jet ski. Get one of those. :evil:
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Why does anyone sell a motorcycle? To get money to spend on something else.
To get another motorcycle !
:boozing: :boozing: :boozing:
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A theory. Many of them are probably coming from the "Weekend Rebel Accountants". Guys who finally had the kids educated and maybe got that divorce, had some extra $ and heard the siren call of the HD. HD's marketing was spot on for this kind of fellow. In his late 40s to mid 50s, could afford the bike and the garb and wanted to exercise his weekend "rebel'. You have seen them at all the watering holes. These were not true life stylers. It was great for the company while it lasted, but like us, those guys are getting greyer. Since many didn't even start riding until they got those bikes, they have had their fling with HD and with riding and are ready to move on to something else more age appropriate. This theory does not account for all because there were just too many, but accounts for some.
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A theory. Many of them are probably coming from the "Weekend Rebel Accountants". Guys who finally had the kids educated and maybe got that divorce, had some extra $ and heard the siren call of the HD. HD's marketing was spot on for this kind of fellow. In his late 40s to mid 50s, could afford the bike and the garb and wanted to exercise his weekend "rebel'. You have seen them at all the watering holes. These were not true life stylers. It was great for the company while it lasted, but like us, those guys are getting greyer. Since many didn't even start riding until they got those bikes, they have had their fling with HD and with riding and are ready to move on to something else more age appropriate. This theory does not account for all because there were just too many, but accounts for some.
We called 'em credit card bikers... Walk into an HD dealership with a loaded credit card and walk out a wannabe 1%er.
Larry
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There are a lot of Harley's built and sold so there are a lot of Harleys on the secondary market.
As for CL having mostly Harleys I think they still have about the same numbers they always did. Now its just the lack of other manufacturers as Cl is dead. Places like FBMP, BaT and Cycle Trader are the go to places now.
I know personally I used to peruse CL mutiple times a day as there was a lot of traffic and lots of fresh inventory. Now I might go there once a month and its the same stuff.
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I know personally I used to peruse CL mutiple times a day as there was a lot of traffic and lots of fresh inventory. Now I might go there once a month and its the same stuff.
There is a used bike dealer about 100 miles away that bombards our local CL with overpriced used bikes. I think they constantly delete and repost the ads to keep them on the first page, which makes it frustrating when checking to see if anything new has been posted. True bargains go quickly.
I find 98 percent of Cycletrader ads are new bikes at dealerships. The prices vary by 25%, but when you get to the OTD prices they all end up about the same. The games dealers play :rolleyes:
I don't do Facebook, but it sounds like the place to be these days when selling.
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I've noticed the same thing, but it isn't surprising given the demographics of their riders and the market share of HD. Those that have the most reasonable prices seem also to have the highest mileage. Some of their riders really pound on the miles. If I knew more about which models/years of HD's are the very best, I might be tempted to pick one up - but my knowledge is pretty limited on Harleys and for that matter on a lot of things it seems...
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What a dealership sells (and buys to sell) has more to do with what they can finance. HDs are still popular and money is still cheap. If they only sold for 100% cash like most private sales, it would be a very different world.
On the Internet sites like craigslist and fb marketplace, fair value bikes & similar items sell fast- like within a day. Legit Deals sell in minutes and many expect you to be onsite to pick up & pay just as fast. If you're not online looking all the time and ready to leave immediately with cash in pocket, you'll miss many if not all of them. Between regular people checking whenever they can and serious flippers who live online, it's a fast scene.
if you see a very good price with <20 min on the ad and don't buy instantly, you're usually too late. Unless its a super obscure item or badly listed- like that V7 Sport & 850T in Arkansas the other day apprently was- if the ad is more than 1-2 days old, it's probably already been appraised by the serious buyers as priced at or beyond its value.
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Right now, the sweet spot for Harley prices (full dressers I'm talking about) is when the price matches the year. ie: 2017 for $17,000, 2018 for $18,000 etc. More than that and you're overpaying. Of course all the dealers are asking more than that, but private sales can be found around that sweet spot. But if the bike is clean and low miles, it's gone fast. The hard part is finding one that hasn't been all fu*ked up with ape hangers and other aftermarket garbage. As an engineer friend once told me, "stock is trick."
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Here in SoCal there are a lot of Harley's. And on Craigslist there are a lot also. Some good prices, some not so good. The three types of bikes I see on the road are Harley's, adventure bikes and sport bikes. When I was traveling out of state (by bike), I see mostly Harley's/BMW's eating up the miles, no sport bikes and some-but not very many adv bikes. Guzzi's are practically non-existent. I bought my Harley because I simply could not mount a high seat bike because of a bad back and a needed hip replacement. Otherwise, I would probably have a FJR1300 for long distance stuff. I needed to do a lot of things to the Harley namely, remove the ape hangers cut the wires re-solder, put in a new alternator and regulator, plugs, tires, coil, new S&S carb, auto-advance, etc etc...Once I got everything done it leaked some oil but worked quite well except it is a heavy bike and with that EV motor it does not have the power it should. It was a '91 Heritage Classic. It did look the part.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZThDTXz/harley-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZThDTXz)
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I love my Harley. It's very comfortable and I enjoy running down the road listening to my favorite play list. The thing I probably don't like the most is the people...I'm a motorcyclist and have been riding for 30 years and have owned 6 times more non Harleys than actual Harleys. The people you meet when on a HD are great but if you're not on a HD they act like you're a communist. It's like they put their costume on and jump on a bike and they're in this secret fraternity. I like all bikes and appreciate each for what they are. Kind of like hotrods. There's some Chevy, Fords and Mopars I like...(just more Chevy's than anything else). I boat a lot also and it cracks me up how people get so attached to the brand they own. I don't get it we're all out boating, driving or riding...why does the brand matter??
I like this pic...It makes my Guzzi look like a mini bike!
(https://i.ibb.co/cgj3NWc/bikes.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cgj3NWc)
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Cliffrod nailed it.
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There is a used bike dealer about 100 miles away that bombards our local CL with overpriced used bikes. I think they constantly delete and repost the ads to keep them on the first page, which makes it frustrating when checking to see if anything new has been posted. True bargains go quickly.
I find 98 percent of Cycletrader ads are new bikes at dealerships. The prices vary by 25%, but when you get to the OTD prices they all end up about the same. The games dealers play :rolleyes:
I don't do Facebook, but it sounds like the place to be these days when selling.
You can use mutiple filters on cycle trader to weed out what you are not interested in seeing.
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Right now, the sweet spot for Harley prices (full dressers I'm talking about) is when the price matches the year. ie: 2017 for $17,000, 2018 for $18,000 etc. More than that and you're overpaying. Of course all the dealers are asking more than that, but private sales can be found around that sweet spot. But if the bike is clean and low miles, it's gone fast. The hard part is finding one that hasn't been all fu*ked up with ape hangers and other aftermarket garbage. As an engineer friend once told me, "stock is trick."
Stock and unmolested would be nice. But as long as it’s clean and low mileage, what difference does it make? You can always undo what has been done. There’s plenty of parts. And it gives you a reason to go through the whole bike. I’d prefer a sporty FI and mid pegs. But it’s not necessarily a show stopper if I can’t find that.
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What a dealership sells (and buys to sell) has more to do with what they can finance. HDs are still popular and money is still cheap. If they only sold for 100% cash like most private sales, it would be a very different world.
On the Internet sites like craigslist and fb marketplace, fair value bikes & similar items sell fast- like within a day. Legit Deals sell in minutes and many expect you to be onsite to pick up & pay just as fast. If you're not online looking all the time and ready to leave immediately with cash in pocket, you'll miss many if not all of them. Between regular people checking whenever they can and serious flippers who live online, it's a fast scene.
if you see a very good price with <20 min on the ad and don't buy instantly, you're usually too late. Unless its a super obscure item or badly listed- like that V7 Sport & 850T in Arkansas the other day apprently was- if the ad is more than 1-2 days old, it's probably already been appraised by the serious buyers as priced at or beyond its value.
I bought 7 bikes in 2020. Having cash in hand an ready to spend it works wonder in getting deals on used bikes.
Heck the last bike I bough back in mid December I made the seller an offer in early November. He declined and said sorry the bike was already sold. 6 weeks later out of the blue I get a PM from the seller asking if I was still interested. I PM'ed him back and said yes I was interested and my original offer ($800 lower than he was asking) was valid. To be honest his asking price very fair. He said how about $200 off what he was asking I said nope my offer original stands. I told him I'm a no BS buyer and if he accepted my offer I'd send him a $100 non-refundable deposit via PayPal to show I'm serious and I'd pick the bike up the next day. He said he was tired of people with no money trying to buy his bike wasting his time and to come and get the bike.
Sometimes you need to let the deal dwell for a while but when it comes around you need to be able to react quickly.
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I check out used Guzzis on line from time to time, mainly on Cycle Trader, eBay and Craigs list. Prices I see listed for bikes older than my new one are often more than I paid for mine. Granted the dealer I used adds liberal extra fees etc. But probably a wash in the end, so a used bike is the same as a new one. I wonder what used Guzzis actually sell for.
kk
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I bought 7 bikes in 2020. Having cash in hand an ready to spend it works wonder in getting deals on used bikes.
Heck the last bike I bough back in mid December I made the seller an offer in early November. He declined and said sorry the bike was already sold. 6 weeks later out of the blue I get a PM from the seller asking if I was still interested. I PM'ed him back and said yes I was interested and my original offer ($800 lower than he was asking) was valid. To be honest his asking price very fair. He said how about $200 off what he was asking I said nope my offer original stands. I told him I'm a no BS buyer and if he accepted my offer I'd send him a $100 non-refundable deposit via PayPal to show I'm serious and I'd pick the bike up the next day. He said he was tired of people with no money trying to buy his bike wasting his time and to come and get the bike.
Sometimes you need to let the deal dwell for a while but when it comes around you need to be able to react quickly.
👍 Same thing on the '86 Chev. El Camino that I bought. I was trying to sell it for my ex-neighbor. He moved back to SW KS after 22 years as my neighbor. I got tired of the run arounds & games. I'm restoring it and it will be a long term keeper.
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Their widows are selling them, 'cause the dudes all caught - at Sturgis. ;)
Realistically, times are hard right now, and probably a lot of riders for whom it's just a hobby are (a) not riding much right now because of the pandemic, and/or (b) need money right now due to job loss, or business downturn.
PhilB
Funnily enough bike and car sales have been booming here during - and I see on the news business output both up past pre - levels in the US and China. Surprising.
Ciao
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I bought 7 bikes in 2020. Having cash in hand an ready to spend it works wonder in getting deals on used bikes.
Heck the last bike I bough back in mid December I made the seller an offer in early November. He declined and said sorry the bike was already sold. 6 weeks later out of the blue I get a PM from the seller asking if I was still interested. I PM'ed him back and said yes I was interested and my original offer ($800 lower than he was asking) was valid. To be honest his asking price very fair. He said how about $200 off what he was asking I said nope my offer original stands. I told him I'm a no BS buyer and if he accepted my offer I'd send him a $100 non-refundable deposit via PayPal to show I'm serious and I'd pick the bike up the next day. He said he was tired of people with no money trying to buy his bike wasting his time and to come and get the bike.
Sometimes you need to let the deal dwell for a while but when it comes around you need to be able to react quickly.
Seven bikes? Would you mind terribly listing what’s in your current collection in your signature block/footer
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I like this pic...It makes my Guzzi look like a mini bike!
(https://i.ibb.co/cgj3NWc/bikes.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cgj3NWc)
Are you the guy who bought the "unusual" colored Guzzi featured & roundly criticized by most on this forum a couple of months ago? FWIW, I agreed with the minority in finding the color kind of different in a good way...except that I would have preferred natural or white wheels.
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I know of a few guys who after raising a family etc. finally bought the Harley they always wanted. Then discovered the reality of riding a MC, sometimes too hot, sometimes too cold, getting caught in the rain, getting the $hit scared out of them after getting nearly run over by an inattentive driver, etc. It just wasn't exactly what they imagined it would be, so after a year or two they just parked the thing in the back of the garage till they decided to sell it a few years later. I think it's a common story.
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Harleys are very popular here, I live in a city of about 1 million, a traditional working mans town, and there are two big HD dealerships here that do quite well. The majority of bikes for sale are Harleys, most fairly new models. The downturn in the oil industry has been very hard on many and - has just been brutal on the economy. Its a sad indicator of hard times.
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Are you the guy who bought the "unusual" colored Guzzi featured & roundly criticized by most on this forum a couple of months ago? FWIW, I agreed with the minority in finding the color kind of different in a good way...except that I would have preferred natural or white wheels.
I recently bought it out of California....I call it the Teal Miami Vice special! I bought it with the intention of saving it and getting it back to a proper Italian paint job. It's getting torn down real soon for paint and powder coat.
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I know of a few guys who after raising a family etc. finally bought the Harley they always wanted. Then discovered the reality of riding a MC, sometimes too hot, sometimes too cold, getting caught in the rain, getting the $hit scared out of them after getting nearly run over by an inattentive driver, etc. It just wasn't exactly what they imagined it would be, so after a year or two they just parked the thing in the back of the garage till they decided to sell it a few years later. I think it's a common story.
Exact thing happened next door to me.
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Whenever I check Craigslist in my area and in other areas, half to a third of the bikes listed are Harleys.
Today, 62 of 118 are Harleys. These were bought by riders. Did they give up riding? Did they move on to another bike?
Where did all these Harleys come from?
There are so many for sale on all Craigslists that if I was in the market for a Harley, I would have a field day looking for one!!!
Since HD has owned 50% of the street bike market in The USA for most of the past three decades, it's no wonder that they are heavily represented in the used bike advertisements.
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Whenever I check Craigslist in my area and in other areas, half to a third of the bikes listed are Harleys.
Today, 62 of 118 are Harleys. These were bought by riders. Did they give up riding? Did they move on to another bike?
Where did all these Harleys come from?
There are so many for sale on all Craigslists that if I was in the market for a Harley, I would have a field day looking for one!!!
For quite some time Harley actually made the bulk of their profit not from the bikes they made but from the finance they provided to buy them. So the point to the product was to generate a finance deal. Hence when there's an economic downturn they lose not only on the finance when repossessions occur but there's a glut of near new bikes on the market. There was a buoyant trade in them here for a while in Aus. Repossessed Harleys in the US shipped over here and sold. A friend of mine bought one of the hideous things. Some massive full dresser with all the fruit.
Ciao
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I just read that Harley is dropping the "Street Series" 500 and 750 bikes. Shelved like the VRod.
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I just read that Harley is dropping the "Street Series" 500 and 750 bikes. Shelved like the VRod.
The real question is what are they planning.
The Sportsters are almost gone and the NAME isn't even on the website- they are in a category now called "Street".
The Street models people thought might replace the Sportsters are gone.
The modular 60 degree LC motors that SEEMED to be a better development of the Street motors are due to debut in the PA in a few months, and I THINK one of the other models may still be in the planning, but at least one of the LC platforms has been placed on "hold."
Oh, and last year they filed a patent for a 4V head motor similar to the M8, but everyone was thinking it could be an air-cooled Sportster replacement, which doesn't seem to make sense now but who knows.
So will they:
* Abandon their entry level products and move entry level upscale to the Softails
* Develop a new air-cooled model to replace the Sportster under the Street moniker
* Develop a new LC model to replace the Sportster under the Street moniker
* Fill the bottom in with a rebadged imported bike like they are doing overseas in Asia
I dunno.... but I guess time will tell. Weird though.
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I dunno about The Motor Company's future plans, but the have got to do something I dont think they are going to make it any longer selling a "lifestyle"...Maybe they should start building side by sides! :laugh:
Rick.
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I dunno about The Motor Company's future plans, but the have got to do something
They're still selling over 200k bikes/year last I checked.
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The real question is what are they planning.
The Sportsters are almost gone and the NAME isn't even on the website- they are in a category now called "Street".
The Street models people thought might replace the Sportsters are gone.
The modular 60 degree LC motors that SEEMED to be a better development of the Street motors are due to debut in the PA in a few months, and I THINK one of the other models may still be in the planning, but at least one of the LC platforms has been placed on "hold."
Oh, and last year they filed a patent for a 4V head motor similar to the M8, but everyone was thinking it could be an air-cooled Sportster replacement, which doesn't seem to make sense now but who knows.
So will they:
* Abandon their entry level products and move entry level upscale to the Softails
* Develop a new air-cooled model to replace the Sportster under the Street moniker
* Develop a new LC model to replace the Sportster under the Street moniker
* Fill the bottom in with a rebadged imported bike like they are doing overseas in Asia
I dunno.... but I guess time will tell. Weird though.
Kev, as we mentioned before. New models developed by the old CEO are being shitcanned by the new CEO even before hitting the market. There's something wrong with the whole enterprise where one guy's vision is nixed by the next guy.
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Kev, as we mentioned before. New models developed by the old CEO are being shitcanned by the new CEO even before hitting the market. There's something wrong with the whole enterprise where one guy's vision is nixed by the next guy.
I know you've mentioned it but I believe you've gotten some of the facts wrong.
The PA (Pan Am) IS one of those new LC models with the modular 60° twin and it is about to enter production, first bikes to dealers in Feb and to customers in March/April.
Of the remaining two new LC concepts they didn't announce they were dead, they set the timeline back on one (it's still listed on the website under Future Models) and said the other was on hold. So I think they're waiting to see how the PA does.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/products/bikes/future-vehicles.html
As for nixing one management's plan isn't that the reason for new management sometimes? That said the plan was never to replace the whole line of bikes with these new visions, at least in there foreseeable future. All the new management did was dial back the speed of the new projects and try to streamline the business to remain profitable at lower sales levels.
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Kev, no one thought they were going to replace the legacy Harleys, only trying to broaden the model range. I didn't make up that they weren't going to cancel some of the new products, that was reported in the press.
Obviously the new CEO wants to consolidate even after all the R&D that went into the new stuff and even some of the old stuff. It looks like the new guy wants to maximize profit per unit vs outreach for new products. We've seen this before with Vrod, Street series, Buell, MV, etc.
I don't know which is best. But they've thrown away lots of capital and they can't seem to make up their minds. I'd say the Pan Am is even further away from core products than the Bronx. Neither model I've ever seen. The Street series was just a weak product IMO, although I understand it had possibilities overseas; I'm not sure what happens to the flat track program.
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Thought I had read a couple of years ago how the market was saturated with Harley's and that Harley Davidson were actually buying back old bikes to try and increase their new bike sales. On a lighter note, a few weeks back some friends and I went on a ride to a country town 200km's away. Whilst we were refueling at a garage about a dozen Harley's rode into the garage and pulled up and parked along the kerb next to the footpath. One of my quick thinking mates said "I Didn't know there was a verge (rubbish) collection on today" we all looked at each other and burst into laughter. Sorry were not Harley fans. :thumb:
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Kev, no one thought they were going to replace the legacy Harleys, only trying to broaden the model range. I didn't make up that they weren't going to cancel some of the new products, that was reported in the press.
Obviously the new CEO wants to consolidate even after all the R&D that went into the new stuff and even some of the old stuff. It looks like the new guy wants to maximize profit per unit vs outreach for new products. We've seen this before with Vrod, Street series, Buell, MV, etc.
I don't know which is best. But they've thrown away lots of capital and they can't seem to make up their minds. I'd say the Pan Am is even further away from core products than the Bronx. Neither model I've ever seen. The Street series was just a weak product IMO, although I understand it had possibilities overseas; I'm not sure what happens to the flat track program.
I'm not saying you made anything up, but the press sucks sometimes. Lazy or misleading headlines, poor interpretations of press kits. You tell me.
Bottom line the PA is coming out, the Custom is still on the website and the Bronx was put on hold. Thing is they are all part of platforms built of the same modular engine. So what direction they go with them is still open and can evolve IF sales and demand are there.
Oh speaking of bad copy in the press. I think it was just last week some moron at ultimate motorcycling. Com posted about the new 2021 RK Special having Apple carplay. Just carelessly blocking and copying crap from a press kit and not thinking about it.
I knew that was what happened as soon as I read it. He got called out later and changed the article, but admits it in the comments:
https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2021/01/20/2021-harley-davidson-road-king-special-first-look-hot-rod-bagger/amp/
Point is I've seen nothing definitive that they are abandoning the whole 60° water cooled motor completely. To the contrary there's evidence they are still moving forward, starting the PA. So let's see what happens.
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Indian just announced some new FTR models. Once again Harley is a day late and a dollar short. The Bronx a d the Street Fighter should have been out a couple of years ago if not sooner.
kk
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Indian just announced some new FTR models. Once again Harley is a day late and a dollar short. The Bronx a d the Street Fighter should have been out a couple of years ago if not sooner.
kk
Have you ridden the FTR? I was not impressed. Still 2019s out there for sale so looks like I'm not the only one.
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I'm not saying you made anything up, but the press sucks sometimes. Lazy or misleading headlines, poor interpretations of press kits. You tell me.
Bottom line the PA is coming out, the Custom is still on the website and the Bronx was put on hold. Thing is they are all part of platforms built of the same modular engine. So what direction they go with them is still open and can evolve IF sales and demand are there.
Oh speaking of bad copy in the press. I think it was just last week some moron at ultimate motorcycling. Com posted about the new 2021 RK Special having Apple carplay. Just carelessly blocking and copying crap from a press kit and not thinking about it.
I knew that was what happened as soon as I read it. He got called out later and changed the article, but admits it in the comments:
https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2021/01/20/2021-harley-davidson-road-king-special-first-look-hot-rod-bagger/amp/
Point is I've seen nothing definitive that they are abandoning the whole 60° water cooled motor completely. To the contrary there's evidence they are still moving forward, starting the PA. So let's see what happens.
Actually, what was reported in the press and put here by me was correct. I don't think I said the entire line up was axed, only a few models. Perhaps the Bronx.
Whatever models are coming out, they appear to be a year later than anticipated.
I suppose we have so many "bash Harley threads", it's hard to keep up. But I do enjoy them. I vowed at 13 never to own one, "garbage wagon".
The original Electra Glide Sport and later RK almost convinced me -until I saw the price tag. Then, nevermind.
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Actually, what was reported in the press and put here by me was correct. I don't think I said the entire line up was axed, only a few models. Perhaps the Bronx.
Whatever models are coming out, they appear to be a year later than anticipated.
I suppose we have so many "bash Harley threads", it's hard to keep up. But I do enjoy them. I vowed at 13 never to own one, "garbage wagon".
The original Electra Glide Sport and later RK almost convinced me -until I saw the price tag. Then, nevermind.
You find "Bash Harley Threads" enjoyable? :shocked: What people find entertaining. :boozing:
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You find "Bash Harley Threads" enjoyable? :shocked: What people find entertaining. :boozing:
And you're on this thread too. :shocked:
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And you're on this thread too. :shocked:
I guess I didn't know this was a harley bashing thread. Especially all the posts talking about how many Harleys are sold every year compared to all the other manufacturers of large displacement motorcycles. Sounded more like a great job Harley for selling so many motorcycles thread.
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I’ve never really wanted a Harley, but it is pretty obvious that they know their market, or at least did. The sheer number of the bikes out there attests to their understanding of how most people really use their bikes. I am first and foremost a fan of 60s through 80’s European singles and twins, but like dogs, I love all motorcycles and the people who are compelled to ride them.
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I guess I didn't know this was a harley bashing thread. Especially all the posts talking about how many Harleys are sold every year compared to all the other manufacturers of large displacement motorcycles. Sounded more like a great job Harley for selling so many motorcycles thread.
Well now you know. :wink:
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For quite some time Harley actually made the bulk of their profit not from the bikes they made but from the finance they provided to buy them.
No. And not t-shirts, either.
HD is a motorcycle company which makes the bulk of its money selling motorcycles.
It also makes money from parts, accessories, apparel, financing, and licensing its logo/name.
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Actually, what was reported in the press and put here by me was correct. I don't think I said the entire line up was axed, only a few models. Perhaps the Bronx.
Whatever models are coming out, they appear to be a year later than anticipated.
Maybe we're just misunderstanding each other.
You keep saying axed, and to me that means CANCELLED not delayed.
I keep pointing out that the fate of the Bronx (the only one currently not on the future models section of the US webpage*) is still to be determined.
*Note: Interestingly enough it was still on the Canadian website this morning, though that could just be an oversight.
Yes, some of the press got it right:
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/harley-davidson-bronx-streetfighter-delayed-2022/
Others saw stuff like this and started saying axed:
https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/goodbye-harley-davidson-bronx-streetfighter.html
It may be that we'll never see the a Bronx. But we're about to get the PA and still supposed to get the 1200 Custom. If they do well then I think we'll see the Bronx still. But time will tell.
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no harley hate from me. i bought my first harley in 1992, a 1200 sportster. i loved it and was forced to give it up due to money concerns. i only had it for 5,000 miles but it was perfect mechanically as it should have been with low miles. after that bike, i made a job change and rode used asian bikes until bmw in 1997 and in 2005, i got a bad jones for another harley. i got a 2006 wide glide. those models had the new 6 speed and many other driveability improvements but retained the by then, reliable 88 twin cam. i loved that bike and but about 18,000 miles on it (i know, high for a harley) in 2 years, perfect running. it was a second bike to go with a bmw rt and i traded the harley and sold the beemer in 2008 for a victory. i was afraid of the bmw rear drive blowing up yet needed something with more touring capacity than the wide glide.
at least from the early 90s to the mid 2000s, my experience with harleys was as good as it gets. i was just a motorcyclist who liked riding harleys, full faced helmet and proper gear as always, not a lifestyler.
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I’ve ridden the entire north east, my favorite place to ride, and NY and PA, 99% of the bikes I see on the road and rallies are HDs, sometimes you spot a Honda, a bmw, an Austrian but rarely, when I spot a Guzzi I want to chase down and share the love of Guzzi’s then I think that’s too silly. Harley has cut back on models and production so prices will go up shortly and they finally fixed the oil transfer problem by eliminating the hydraulic clutch on the touring bikes, softails already had them. I’m thinking of trading my 2018 Heritage for a 2021 Low Rider S, love the balance of the twin discs, the look and of course the 114ci.
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I test rode a Low Rider in 2019. The handling was dreadful on unsettled pavement. It might have been a one off problem. It was a demo bike with 3,000 miles on it and a few dealer add-ons. I was interested in that model but after riding it, rejected it.
kk
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Maybe we're just misunderstanding each other.
You keep saying axed, and to me that means CANCELLED not delayed.
I keep pointing out that the fate of the Bronx (the only one currently not on the future models section of the US webpage*) is still to be determined.
*Note: Interestingly enough it was still on the Canadian website this morning, though that could just be an oversight.
Yes, some of the press got it right:
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/harley-davidson-bronx-streetfighter-delayed-2022/
Others saw stuff like this and started saying axed:
https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/goodbye-harley-davidson-bronx-streetfighter.html
It may be that we'll never see the a Bronx. But we're about to get the PA and still supposed to get the 1200 Custom. If they do well then I think we'll see the Bronx still. But time will tell.
I don't recall saying all those models were axed. If so, it's not what I meant.
I said something regarding that the old CEO developed new models/engines and the new CEO isn't bringing some to market. I don't think that is a great way to run a company. I also said that the Street model line was being discontinued (according to my phone), that's the 500/750. I think I also said the VRod was discontinued earlier. Maybe I said something about MV or Buell? Again, not good management moves IMO.
But in reference to the new models, some of them weren't going to be released by the new CEO that were developed by the previous CEO.
I'm not sure this was the effort to say again. :sad:
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I test rode a Low Rider in 2019. The handling was dreadful on unsettled pavement. It might have been a one off problem. It was a demo bike with 3,000 miles on it and a few dealer add-ons. I was interested in that model but after riding it, rejected it.
kk
I thought the newer softail models were supposed to be dialed in.
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I was struck by the comment about sportsters no longer being listed on the website by name and almost gone. I always thought they were an important legacy model. I have owned and loved them, especially post 2004 and currently have a 1200T. I am too small for a RK and the 1200T has bags, windshield, mid controls with small floor boards, etc. and it is about 26 inches in seat height which I like. It fits me. I know some call the sportster just an entry level bike or worse but I really like them along with Guzzis, airheads, etc. At my local dealers it does appear they are fewer in number and prices are up.
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I was struck by the comment about sportsters no longer being listed on the website by name and almost gone. I always thought they were an important legacy model. I have owned and loved them, especially post 2004 and currently have a 1200T. I am too small for a RK and the 1200T has bags, windshield, mid controls with small floor boards, etc. and it is about 26 inches in seat height which I like. It fits me. I know some call the sportster just an entry level bike or worse but I really like them along with Guzzis, airheads, etc. At my local dealers it does appear they are fewer in number and prices are up.
who said that?
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/sportster.html
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I thought the newer softail models were supposed to be dialed in.
It was a newer model with the M8. I will not say it was completely stock. It did have the compliant Screaming Eagle exhaust. I wasn't going to trade my Slim S for it.
kk
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Good to see the sportster is still right there...thanks....s ome things should not change
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who said that?
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/sportster.html
That's so weird.
When I go in to the website I can't get to that place with the links. If I select BIKES it lists: Street, Electric, Cruiser, Touring, Trike and the "Sportster" models are listed under Street.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/index.html?source_cd=SEM_Retention_PPC&_cr=ppc|GOOGLE|Sitelink|2021-Motorcycles|harley%20davidson&gclid=Cj0KCQiA3smABhCjARIsAKtrg6JEnWFUwSR4yia_2PgIv-6_uE5HkZhdlFY99V5uzToam1piJEMhV1AaAkT3EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Weird.
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Most of the Harleys I see for sale are twinkies ( twin cams), and sportsters of all engine types. That being said the TC’s are not the most desirable mill,many expensive problems. Do remember that the Harley dealers are not required to support any of their machines after 10 years. They first started showing up 2010. And I see most of the used Harleys on market are TC’s and early Milwaukee engines they had their problems too. How ever the Milwaukee mill might prove to be the best engine yet even beating out the EVO witch is more than capable of doing over 100k with regular maintenance. You don’t see many evo’s for sale and when you do they get bought right away. You can do your own work on them, the TC’s and later not so much so. That is why I own a Shovelhead , one of my most favorite bikes in my collection to ride.
If I owned a bike that I could not work on and the dealer and the motor company did not support and stoped making parts I would try to sell it too.
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. Do remember that the Harley dealers are not required to support any of their machines after 10 years. They first started showing up 2010.
Uh the TC was introduced in 99 and phased through the BT platforms in the next couple of years.
The biggest potential issue on a TC are the spring loaded tensioners on the 88" models can fail catastrophically sometime between 25-50k miles if not inspected and replaced.
If replaced or if upgraded to the hydraulic tensioners which were introduced in 06 on the Dyna and all 07+ TC96 or 103's they still need to be checked and replaced, but the interval is closer to 100k+.
Yes there are dealers who won't work on Shovelheads or EVO's anymore, but even the youngest BT EVO is now over 20 years old. I've not heard of a TC being turned away but it will happen eventually.
That said they still make many more parts for legacy bikes then most manufacturers, but who cares the aftermarket has it all covered anyway.
Or one could always drop in an S&S.
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Most of the Harleys I see for sale are twinkies ( twin cams), and sportsters of all engine sizes. That being said the TC’s are not the most desirable mill,many expensive problems. Do remember that the Harley dealers are not required to support any of their machines after 10 years. They first started showing up 2010. And I see most of the used Harleys on market are TC’s and early Milwaukee engines they had their problems too. How ever the Milwaukee mill might prove to be the best engine yet even beating out the EVO witch is more than capable of doing over 100k with regular maintenance. You don’t see many evo’s for sale and when you do they get bought right away. You can do your own work on them, the TC’s and later not so much so. That is why I own a Shovelhead , one of my most favorite bikes in my collection to ride.
If I owned a bike that I could not work on and the dealer and the motor company did not support and stoped making parts I would try to sell it too.
What started showing up in 2010?
There isn't a dealer out there who is required to work on any bike beyond a certain period. I've also heard the 10 year number bantered around at all brands of dealers. That doesn't mean they won't. When it comes to independent mechanics you will probably find more Indies that support Harley than any other brand since there were so many made and parts are plentiful.
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I've had a couple of Harleys , and wonder if other folks are getting rid of theirs for the same reason I got rid of mine ?
There are a lot of guys in my local CMAUSA group who are making trikes out of their Harleys as they get older (riders not the Harleys, :laugh:), others just quit ridding.
I've found the 400-450 pound machines are just more FUN ! :grin: And can still do anything even remotely legal just as good or better than any of the Heavy-Weights ! :laugh: :laugh:
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My mistake It should have read 2000 last year of evo was 98
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Had to look it up I was just going by memory, evo’s ended in 99 TC’s started in 99 hmm, sorry
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who said that?
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/sportster.html
Iron 883, Iron 1200, Forty-Eight.
What a sad state the Sportster lineup is in.
I never would have thought HD would allow it to languish and die, but wow! Just wow!
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Iron 883, Iron 1200, Forty-Eight.
What a sad state the Sportster lineup is in.
I never would have thought HD would allow it to languish and die, but wow! Just wow!
It's not and won't be made compliant for EU-V - as a result it's already been dropped overseas.
I still don't know how Low got to a page on the current website that actually SAYS Sportster, unless I go direct to that page everything I come up with lists Street - and then the Irons and 48.
Oh I meant to say that though they killed the "Street" models in the US, they ARE going to still produce them. Not sure volume or markets. They are still going to provide the Street 500 for the Harley run US rider courses. I THINK they may still produce some variants of them overseas but time will tell if they kill those and replace that with the Chinese 300cc bike they have a deal to rebadge in Asia.
Shrugs, it's an interesting time.
I really am torn on the Sporty thing and I've been eyeing up what is basically a "leftover" CX in WHITE at a "local" Guzzi dealer.
Had to look it up I was just going by memory, evo’s ended in 99 TC’s started in 99 hmm, sorry
My mistake It should have read 2000 last year of evo was 98
If we're being pedantic, I BELIEVE it was:
98 last rubbermounted BT EVOs - Dyna and FLH
99 first rubbermounted TC 88s - Dyna and FLH &
99 last solidmounted EVO - Softail
00 first TC88B - counterbalanced solidmounted TC - Softail
Then they did that weird crap in 2006 where the Dyna models were still TC88s, but they were the only ones to ever come with all the upgrades of the TC96 and later models (including the most important, the new oil pump and hydraulic chain tensioners).
I get lost after that with the TC96, 103, was there a 110 in the SE models?, the M8 107, M8114, the M8130.... whatever.
I really never thought I'd own a TC because of the "fatal flaw" - then suddenly bought a leftover the year the M8s came out.
<shrugs>
I had really been thinking of picking up an EVO and rebuilding it - but then I wouldn't have had some of the great FLH improvements that occurred in 2014, the brembos being a big part of it.
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When it comes to independent mechanics you will probably find more Indies that support Harley than any other brand since there were so many made and parts are plentiful.
This! It’s far easier to keep an old out-of-production Harley on the road than it is any Japanese or euro bike. Aftermarket parts and service are readily available anywhere in the country.
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This! It’s far easier to keep an old out-of-production Harley on the road than it is any Japanese or euro bike. Aftermarket parts and service are readily available anywhere in the country.
Airheads are really easy to keep going , and if you know where to source parts so are older Guzzis . Heck , parts are everywhere for Meriden built Triumphs , not sure if this is still true , but a few years ago a brand new Triumph 650 could be built using all new components .
Dusty
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True for the home wrench, but try and find a mechanic for an old Triumph or Moto Guzzi. The wife and I are renting a condo in Ormond Beach and there’s an independent Harley repair shop down the street within walking distance.
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This! It’s far easier to keep an old out-of-production Harley on the road than it is any Japanese or euro bike. Aftermarket parts and service are readily available anywhere in the country.
Yes, except you might have to go to an independent shop, since I've been told that some of the dealers won't service or part legacy bikes as recent as Evos. Certainly the parts from aftermarket and independent shops can service them.
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True for the home wrench, but try and find a mechanic for an old Triumph or Moto Guzzi. The wife and I are renting a condo in Ormond Beach and there’s an independent Harley repair shop down the street within walking distance.
Probably because old HD's need constant repair :evil:
Seriously , there is an independent shop here that is capable of working on anything , only there is not one scintilla of evidence as to what happens in that shop . No signs , no internet presence , nothing . The owner never even speaks about the shop , you are required to know the secret handshake :grin:
Dusty
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Yes, except you might have to go to an independent shop, since I've been told that some of the dealers won't service or part legacy bikes as recent as Evos. Certainly the parts from aftermarket and independent shops can service them.
Yeah, but again that's more than 2 decades old.
How many JAPanInc. shops would repair a 20+ year old bike of their marque now?
I actually would be surprised if half the Guzzi dealers around would touch anything even as early as a Tonti Cali anymore. Of course there are exceptions, just as there are plenty of Harley shops that still will work on EVOs, and some some Shovels (assuming they have THAT guy still working there).
I dunno - Harleys and air BMWs seem to be the two bikes you could build from scratch using aftermarket and/or NOS OEM parts.
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Yeah, but again that's more than 2 decades old.
How many JAPanInc. shops would repair a 20+ year old bike of their marque now?
I actually would be surprised if half the Guzzi dealers around would touch anything even as early as a Tonti Cali anymore. Of course there are exceptions, just as there are plenty of Harley shops that still will work on EVOs, and some some Shovels (assuming they have THAT guy still working there).
I dunno - Harleys and air BMWs seem to be the two bikes you could build from scratch using aftermarket and/or NOS OEM parts.
Sorry, I don't buy it.
Harley produced those EVOs exclusively for 15 years. It's not like they had 10 different engines in a given mode year like Honda, and I am not justifying Honda's actions either! Harley is always proud of their "heritage": flat head, knucklehead, pan head, shovel head, evo, twin cam, whatever now. Perhaps they wouldn't have the cosmetic stuff but they should be able to mechanically work on any EVO, they built a million of the damned things. I can still get my Isuzu Trooper fixed for heaven's sake! (not that ever needs anything)
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Sorry, I don't buy it.
Harley produced those EVOs exclusively for 15 years. It's not like they had 10 different engines in a given mode year like Honda, and I am not justifying Honda's actions either! Harley is always proud of their "heritage": flat head, knucklehead, pan head, shovel head, evo, twin cam, whatever now. Perhaps they wouldn't have the cosmetic stuff but they should be able to mechanically work on any EVO, they built a million of the damned things. I can still get my Isuzu Trooper fixed for heaven's sake! (not that ever needs anything)
Most of them still will work on them though. And the ones that won't are simply prioritizing the current (past 2+ decades) of business.
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I no longer have a Harley so no dog in the fight but I can attest to this. HD is and has been so popular over the past 100+ years and have so many followers that these are old wrenches EVERYWHERE. all those little sheds behind houses of these old wrenches are full of parts. There are 3 such shops within 30 minutes of my house. If someone’s HD breaks down you can find parts and a wrench.
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I no longer have a Harley so no dog in the fight but I can attest to this. HD is and has been so popular over the past 100+ years and have so many followers that these are old wrenches EVERYWHERE. all those little sheds behind houses of these old wrenches are full of parts. There are 3 such shops within 30 minutes of my house. If someone’s HD breaks down you can find parts and a wrench.
Yes , but if you want to do an ATW trip , an R 80 GS is a much better choice , there are parts and mechanics for those old nails in places like Rwanda , try getting a Harley serviced in Kigali .
Dusty
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Have you ridden the FTR? I was not impressed. Still 2019s out there for sale so looks like I'm not the only one.
I bought one in Kiwi Land straight after we came out of - lockdown. They were offered for NZ$19,999 which is 15% off the original price. I took it for a demo ride, and signed up immediately upon return.
The original fuel mapping was not the best, I put a Fuel Moto map in mine, improved it considerably. Got rid of the low license plate and rear indicator bracket, it would attach my shins every time I walked past. Perhaps it was just saying "let's ride"?
I liked it so much, I bought an Indian Chief. Different motor all together, nice lazy riding.
The new ones have 17" and 18" (rear-front) wheels, mine came with 19" front and rear. Makes it rather tall, but probably no more than my Moto Guzzi V85TT.
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Yes , but if you want to do an ATW trip , an R 80 GS is a much better choice , there are parts and mechanics for those old nails in places like Rwanda , try getting a Harley serviced in Kigali .
Dusty
Good point my friend but if by some remote chance, as I don’t fly, I ever do get off this continent I would rent the most popular bike of the area I visited. However in the good ole US of A it’s the ole HD:)
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I no longer have a Harley so no dog in the fight but I can attest to this. HD is and has been so popular over the past 100+ years and have so many followers that these are old wrenches EVERYWHERE. all those little sheds behind houses of these old wrenches are full of parts. There are 3 such shops within 30 minutes of my house. If someone’s HD breaks down you can find parts and a wrench.
I made that point to begin with. You may recall, I mentioned independent shops and aftermarket parts in my original post.
But my other point was that Harley dealers might not service legacy models even for an Evo, even for parts support. That's when Kev chimed in. And Dusty knows the secret handshake wrench in Muskogee. So there we are.
No disagreement, only clarification.
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Yes , but if you want to do an ATW trip , an R 80 GS is a much better choice , there are parts and mechanics for those old nails in places like Rwanda , try getting a Harley serviced in Kigali .
Dusty
Back in the summer of 2019 touring Europe from
Amsterdam to Istanbul I saw all of TWO Harleys, one newer big tourer and one old beater ridden by a fellow Canadian in Bulgaria. BMW twins (both GS and RT) are by and far the most popular on the road followed by KTM big twin dual sports, scooters in most cities. Saw a couple Goldwings in France and a couple dual purpose Japanese bikes here and there. Cops on sporty FJR 1300’s in Italy and France, Beemers most every where else.
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I bought one in Kiwi Land straight after we came out of - lockdown. They were offered for NZ$19,999 which is 15% off the original price. I took it for a demo ride, and signed up immediately upon return.
The original fuel mapping was not the best, I put a Fuel Moto map in mine, improved it considerably. Got rid of the low license plate and rear indicator bracket, it would attach my shins every time I walked past. Perhaps it was just saying "let's ride"?
I liked it so much, I bought an Indian Chief. Different motor all together, nice lazy riding.
The new ones have 17" and 18" (rear-front) wheels, mine came with 19" front and rear. Makes it rather tall, but probably no more than my Moto Guzzi V85TT.
I wanted a Springfield but could never come to an agreed to price on one. I will say that I had just test ridden the Livewire the day before so anything short of a liter super sport would have been disappointing. LOL!
I hope one day before I stop riding I can get to NZ and tour the entire country. I was supposed to go Christmas 2020. Maybe in a couple years travel will get back to normal and my son's house will hopefully be complete by then.
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I just read where Harley announced a 4th quarter loss. So they still have a way to go to solve their problems. Their used bike prices still seem to defy the laws of supply and demand.
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I just read where Harley announced a 4th quarter loss. So they still have a way to go to solve their problems. Their used bike prices still seem to defy the laws of supply and demand.
I wonder if moving their 2021 reveal and supply to January had some affect on that in addition to the -. If a large percentage of you buyers are isolating it makes it hard to sell bikes.
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I wonder if moving their 2021 reveal and supply to January had some affect on that in addition to the -. If a large percentage of you buyers are isolating it makes it hard to sell bikes.
Worth a re run I think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY&ab_channel=FortNine
Ciao
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I just read where Harley announced a 4th quarter loss. So they still have a way to go to solve their problems. Their used bike prices still seem to defy the laws of supply and demand.
Mike, have you seen any of the other brands stats for the same time period, I wonder if all the market is down across the board?
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Boat sales up, RV sales up. The Honda dealer near me is completely sold out of dirt bikes and 4 wheelers. So people are spending money, and lots of it.
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Worth a re run I think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY&ab_channel=FortNine
Ciao
I like the fort9 kid. He convinced me to use gear old in the drive chains for my non Guzzis.
Makes me wonder why the never made a Cafe version of the XR before they killed it. Some pegs and a bikini fairing and done. Sell another 1000 and then kill it.
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Boat sales up, RV sales up. The Honda dealer near me is completely sold out of dirt bikes and 4 wheelers. So people are spending money, and lots of it.
Actually your conclusion may be making some bad assumptions.
This article suggests 2-wheel industry is down, 4-wheel sales are up.
https://www.motorcyclesdata.com/2020/12/30/united-states-motorcycles-market/
Other articles:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/billroberson/2020/10/07/the-motorcycle-industry-was-at-a-crossroads-then-coivd-19-changed-up-the-map/
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/motorbike-sales-figures/
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Off road sales are up for 2020 across the board. Street bikes have not faired as well, especially the Japanese brands. On the other hand, BMW did pretty well. Down only 2%. Not bad considering. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210105005995/en/BMW-of-North-America-Reports-Q4-2020-and-Full-Year-2020-U.S.-Sales-Results.
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A local multi brand dealership (Yamaha, Suzuki, Aprilia, Moto Guzzi, Vespa) told me that big displacement bike sales were down across the board, cruiser sales have been dead for years, smaller displacement street bikes do well, sold out of the Tenere 700, Guzzi V7 variants steady but small volume. A local Honda / KTM dealer told me pretty much the same, street bikes under 500cc sell, Honda Africa twins and Goldwings do OK but not in volume. Local BMW dealership sells a lot of RT's and GS's, a handful of the K1600 range but sales guy told me these are 'old guys' bikes (well I am an old guy and I have a K bike so I guess I fit the demographic). Looks like the future may be light and reasonably cheap sub 500cc street bikes.
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Off road sales are up for 2020 across the board. Street bikes have not faired as well, especially the Japanese brands. On the other hand, BMW did pretty well. Down only 2%. Not bad considering. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210105005995/en/BMW-of-North-America-Reports-Q4-2020-and-Full-Year-2020-U.S.-Sales-Results.
Gueas in saying that boats and RVs and four wheelers are not motorcycles.
Edit - though I'll add with smaller bike sales seemingly trending stronger than larger, it would seem Harley once again may be choosing the exact wrong thing by dropping their smallest bikes and scaling back on the Sportsters.
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Worth a re run I think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY&ab_channel=FortNine
Ciao
Fortnine has been bought by Indian. They gave him an FTR. He even did a video on how it is the "most beautiful" bike ever made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe_JXsWNDTQ
There are many of us who don't care about going liquid cooled and high revving for more power. I've been there, done that, and then saw the light. None of my 4 motorcycles are about power. They are about enjoying the ride and seeing the sights along the way. They are about taking in the smells, enjoying the roadside stands and road food in out of the way places.
When we rode sport bikes we didn't see anything but the next set of curves.
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Fortnine has been bought by Indian. They gave him an FTR. He even did a video on how it is the "most beautiful" bike ever made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe_JXsWNDTQ
There are many of us who don't care about going liquid cooled and high revving for more power. I've been there, done that, and then saw the light. None of my 4 motorcycles are about power. They are about enjoying the ride and seeing the sights along the way. They are about taking in the smells, enjoying the roadside stands and road food in out of the way places.
When we rode sport bikes we didn't see anything but the next set of curves.
Sorry but i cant see the connection your trying to make here. This was a Video on Harley as a company and the way its operated in a commercial sense not about which style of bike is better than the other. Personally I'm with you I don't want or need a Hyperbike anymore.
Ciao
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Fortnine has been bought by Indian.
I googled this, don't see any link to an Indian / Polaris ownership?
On August 6, 2020, Novacap announced that it had acquired an interest in Montreal-based FortNine (fortnine.ca), a leading e-commerce platform for motorcycle, dirt bike, ATV, snowmobile and other powersports gear, accessories and parts.
Novacap is a leading Canadian private equity firm with $3.6 billion of assets under management.
Headquartered in Montreal, QC, FortNine was built from the ground up to cater to powersports enthusiasts and provide Canadian riders with the gear they need. FortNine has thrived disrupting the market via innovation to give the riders community an excellent customer experience through their knowledgeable and experienced team.
“We’re thrilled to partner with such great entrepreneurs. Amin and Karim Sawaf founded FortNine while in university. They led the company through exponential growth, built a great management team, and Novacap recognizes the success and passion that drives them. FortNine is the second investment from Novacap Industries V fund since its closing in November 2019,” said Jacques Foisy, Chairman of the Board and Managing Partner of Novacap.
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Harley just posted a quarterly loss of 96 million. And they are starting a “Certified HD” used bike program. Wonder how that will do since there are so many for sale on Craigslist? ... like I said at the beginning of this thread. They’re everywhere!
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Harley just posted a quarterly loss of 96 million. And they are starting a “Certified HD” used bike program. Wonder how that will do since there are so many for sale on Craigslist? ... like I said at the beginning of this thread. They’re everywhere!
I have noticed that there are a lot oh HD’s on Craigs list and Facebook market place. However the asking prices are that place where possible buyers must not be willing to go???
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I googled this, don't see any link to an Indian / Polaris ownership?
On August 6, 2020, Novacap announced that it had acquired an interest in Montreal-based FortNine (fortnine.ca), a leading e-commerce platform for motorcycle, dirt bike, ATV, snowmobile and other powersports gear, accessories and parts.
Novacap is a leading Canadian private equity firm with $3.6 billion of assets under management.
Headquartered in Montreal, QC, FortNine was built from the ground up to cater to powersports enthusiasts and provide Canadian riders with the gear they need. FortNine has thrived disrupting the market via innovation to give the riders community an excellent customer experience through their knowledgeable and experienced team.
“We’re thrilled to partner with such great entrepreneurs. Amin and Karim Sawaf founded FortNine while in university. They led the company through exponential growth, built a great management team, and Novacap recognizes the success and passion that drives them. FortNine is the second investment from Novacap Industries V fund since its closing in November 2019,” said Jacques Foisy, Chairman of the Board and Managing Partner of Novacap.
I'm talking about Ryan! LOL!
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I'm talking about Ryan! LOL!
:rolleyes: :grin:
he is one smart kid!
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I'm talking about Ryan! LOL!
Ryan works for Fortnine and in the Video you linked to he obviously thinks the Indian is beautiful and uses it as a demonstration of motorcycle design criteria and philosophies but Indian actually gave him a bike? I mean one to keep as his own? Do you know this for a fact or are you extending the video content into areas of supposition and conjecture.
Just interested to know as its important to have this kind of knowledge when watching reviews etc. I've know journalists for many years that have sponsorship deals with factories and so ignore their opinions on those bikes.
Ciao
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did Indian buy him a bike, perhaps but I kind of doubt it
From the web
His name is Ryan Kluftinger and he is a young chap from British Columbia who has a degree in physics and philosophy (an odd mix to be sure) - so he knows the science and he knows how to write, but in contrast to nearly every other moto-journalist, he has also taken the trouble to learn some engineering along the way. He is also a very highly skilled rider as you can see from some of his bike test videos.
Ryan's other Harley videos show that he also has a decent grip on corporate finance and the stock market - truly a renaissance man!
You can tell that he has a good education and takes the time to learn before he speaks because, for example he uses correct terminology and units of measure (he quotes engine torque in ft-lbs or N-m and not psi) and he doesn't talk too fast (c'mon down Revzilla!!) or clutter-up his videos with techno-jargon BS, as so many others do.
FYI, FortNine is a Canadian motorcycle accessories place with a major on-line parts and tires business based in Montreal. They engaged Ryan (known on-air as freelancer Ryan F9) to do product reviews and general interest pieces for them with the agreement that he will not pump products just to sell them. He only gives the products good reviews if the product is...you know...good. He also produces editorial pieces which can be pretty tough on some bike OEMs - but he backs up his views with actual data and facts - how refreshing!
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did Indian buy him a bike, perhaps but I kind of doubt it
Thats kinda what I thought. He seems legit, which is nice in this day and age.
Ciao
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Ryan works for Fortnine and in the Video you linked to he obviously thinks the Indian is beautiful and uses it as a demonstration of motorcycle design criteria and philosophies but Indian actually gave him a bike? I mean one to keep as his own? Do you know this for a fact or are you extending the video content into areas of supposition and conjecture.
Just interested to know as its important to have this kind of knowledge when watching reviews etc. I've know journalists for many years that have sponsorship deals with factories and so ignore their opinions on those bikes.
Ciao
Supposition and conjecture, based on his reviews of every other bike I've watched. :cool:
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Harley’s in a very tough position. I can’t think of a way out of the position they’re in. When you’ve built your brand all on an aging image and large v twin engine that are BOTH falling out of favor with the next generation. Wow, it will be interesting to see what they do. Hope they survive.
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Harley’s in a very tough position. I can’t think of a way out of the position they’re in. When you’ve built your brand all on an aging image and large v twin engine that are BOTH falling out of favor with the next generation. Wow, it will be interesting to see what they do. Hope they survive.
With the popularity of retro, classic, modern classic design in motorcycles today, you would think that Harley would be doing well. In fact, I think they are still doing well in regards to making and selling motorcycles. They are in one market while the majority of other motorcycle companies are in many markets or are owned by parent companies who are in many markets.
I think that when they focused on the stock market is where they got in trouble. The push to flood the market with motorcycles created a self fulfilling prophecy to where the value of used bikes dropped so much that many choose to buy used instead of new. Only those who are knowledgeable about and appreciate the improvements made over the past decade are looking to buy new.
I didn't come to Harley until 2016. Prior to the Rushmore redesign I didn't see them as competitive with my other choices in heavy touring bikes. I looked a Harley seriously in 2010 and chose the Vulcan Voyager over the Road Glide. In 2016 I traded the Voyager with 60,000 miles on my first Road Glide because they finally made a bike I was willing to buy.