Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: swalker on May 08, 2011, 08:54:57 PM
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Should we try and support the MGNOC or set back and watch it go away? It is my source for all Guzzi content and rallies, etc. so I support the MGNOC... Even if I get this information online....I mean really, I hear about book sales down because of e-books now and music sales down because of people getting music free off the net...Our old ways we learned these things seem to be gone. This new technology seems to cause the older people to argue...Some wanted the online version, others didn't...Naturally those with no computer skills would like a paper to show up in the mail... Its not a complaint for me cause I am on a computer. I enjoy the MGNOC, the Newsletter and the opportunity to see where the rallies are so I can maybe attend and spend a weekend with some of my good buddies...And an opportunity to meet some new ones that just might keep our club alive. Dean Yotter from Leoti Kansas got us started in this club and although Dean passed away and is no longer riding with me, I can assure you he would want me to support our club. Long live the Moto Guzzi and the MGNOC. ;-T
Steve Walker
Arkansas Rep
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This is interesting. I just posted something relevant to this topic on another current thread.
Has anyone thought or tried to create a genuine and active Guzzi owners club in the US. No disrespect for past efforts but the current "club" seems virtually defunct. I think the biggest problem is that it is "owned" and operated solely by one man apparently.
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I don't know...Are offering? I myself wouldn't trade Frank...Especially when it comes to trying to please everyone... Just my thoughts...
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yeah steve LONG LIVE THE MGNOC!!!!!
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The "new club" is in effect when you make a contribution to the existing club
http://www.mgnoc.com/staff_and_reps.html
The folks listed on the link above have solicited ideas and new contributions from those members in the shadows. The sand box is big, jump in!
The current club works fine for me.....I participate.
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Well, then all is good ! Amen ! Throw-in a hallelujah while you're at it !
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Well, then all is good ! Amen ! Throw-in a hallelujah while you're at it !
Good. So...what are you going to do for your local MGNOC group? Will you coordinate a rally? Campout? Lunch? Dinner? Ride?
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Umm, we do that every Saturday ! When are you coming to join us and participate !?
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Well, then all is good ! Amen ! Throw-in a hallelujah while you're at it !
It's not good if you're not "feeling the love". Please share you ideas! We're the soul of MGNOC.
It's our ideas that keep it running. It's up to me to keep the torch lit in my state with the help of other owners to keep the excitement going here. If you're waiting for Moto Guzzi Corporate to participate .......we've been waiting since 1921.
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The three really successful owners clubs that I can think of are wholly owned by thier brands:
HOG, Harley Owners Group. http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Content/Pages/HOG/HOG.html
RAT, Riders Association of Triumph. http://www.triumph.co.uk/usa/ratHome.aspx
BMW MOA, BMW Motorcycle Owners America. http://www.bmwmoa.org/
Good or bad, MGNOC is something completely different.
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Well Leafman, I have organized 5 or 6 events and I still haven't met you, there are 2 coming up, maybe you will make the Panhandle Rally this year organized by the North Florida Rep Jim DeGregoria, haven't seen you there neither come to think of it..
http://florida.mgnoc.com/index.html
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Hoping to make it there, Dan. I've been all around you. I was at Daytona Bike Week several days but too late for the Pantheon thing (work issues delayed my trip). Ive also been to a couple of BMW rallies around you, Venice and Starke.
As Ive said, I am not as dyed-in-the-wool Guzzi as some of you but I do like them and Ive owned several. I recently sold my Daytona, my Scura and my 850GT, but I may likely end up on a Stelvio this year.
I was only asking about prospects for the national club. I am a member of several national owners groups and Ive been to several Guzzi national rallies, the Malibu rally being the last. I do not think Mr. Wedge even attended that one.
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Ive also been to a couple of BMW rallies around you, Venice and Starke.
As Ive said, I am not as dyed-in-the-wool Guzzi as some of you but I do like them
Therein is the current MGNOC problem. Wildguzzi says it's not part of MGNOC. Fine, but anyone who wants to can find here where to go if they want to join a MGNOC event.
I know of another MC club that if you aren't a member of the club and want to go to 1 of their events, you have to 1st join the club, otherwise you are not welcome. Subsequently I have never been to an event of that club, even tho I have a bike to qualify.
It's amazing how many non-commited internet participants think they know how to do a better job, but never prove it by their own participation in what has to be done to pull off an event. Instead, since many have no personal experience doing such, they're still full of ideas of doing it better. There's an old saying..........tal k is cheap. Either put up or shut up. ;)
It used to be only die-hard Guzzisti were in the MGNOC. It's no longer that way(or is it?). :'( What is happening in the MGNOC right now is the results of that, IMHO.
I'm not a Guzzisti, I'm a MC enthusiast that happens to own a Guzzi too. ??? Look at all the non-Guzzi bikes that are routinely discusssed here now. :D
incoming........... ....
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I believe that when Frank didn't attend the Malibu that was his first non attendance for a National.
I consider MGNOC is the mothership,many States have State Reps and if a rider from an area want more events etc they could always offer to help the Rep get things done.
I plan to continue to support MGNOC as well as several other non motorcycle groups I have a common interest with.
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The home of MGNOC, Larned Kansas, population 4,054.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/draidt/DanRaidt/learnerd.jpg)
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There fixed it for you Dean !
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/draidt/DanRaidt/learnerd.jpg)
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There fixed it for you Dean !
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/draidt/DanRaidt/learnerd.jpg)
**C What's with all those cars ? I thought everyone in Learned rode a Guzzi ! ;D Dan you should have put a few Guzzi's on the street to enliven the local ambiance. ::)
**C Dave ;-T
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Umm, I think it's Larned. "Lerned" is what people wanna be once they are educated and it's spelled "learned."
Looks bigger than 4000 people too.
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The home of MGNOC, Lerned Kansas, population 4,054.
Make that "The CURRENT home...". I believe Frank lived in Manhattan, KS when he started MGNOC and then moved to Sylvan Grove, KS for several years. I didn't join until the Sylvan Grove days and attended two National rallies there. Beautiful little town makes Larned look like Metropolis or Gotham City.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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MGNOC doesn't have a forum that I'm aware of nor any manpower to support one. Wild Guzzi fulfills that need without any real agenda. It doesn't take Guzzi owner long to find the MGNOC web site and look up rallies plus many MGNOC functions seems to get covered here so I think there's a good synergy between the two.
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The three really successful owners clubs that I can think of are wholly owned by thier brands:
HOG, Harley Owners Group. http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Content/Pages/HOG/HOG.html
RAT, Riders Association of Triumph. http://www.triumph.co.uk/usa/ratHome.aspx
BMW MOA, BMW Motorcycle Owners America. http://www.bmwmoa.org/
Good or bad, MGNOC is something completely different.
I don't think BMW MOA is owned or run by BMW, at least they were independant when I was a member.
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Umm, I think it's Larned. "Lerned" is what people wanna be once they are educated and it's spelled "learned."
Looks bigger than 4000 people too.
Corrected, thanks.
Director, Editor
Frank D. Wedge
P.O. Box 3
Larned, Kansas 67550-0003
Dean
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Umm, I think it's Larned. "Lerned" is what people wanna be once they are educated and it's spelled "learned."
Looks bigger than 4000 people too.
**C Actually if they were "learned" in Larned they'd all be riding Guzzi's. ::) Pardon my typo's. Only had one cup of coffee when I wrote that. ;D
**C Dave ;-T
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Umm, I think it's Larned. "Lerned" is what people wanna be once they are educated and it's spelled "learned."
Looks bigger than 4000 people too.
Corrected, thanks.
Director, Editor
Frank D. Wedge
P.O. Box 3
Larned, Kansas 67550-0003
Dean
Wasnt being smart or sarcastic. Just making a note. Its easy to misspefl. I di it all thw timv.
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The three really successful owners clubs that I can think of are wholly owned by thier brands:
HOG, Harley Owners Group. http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Content/Pages/HOG/HOG.html
RAT, Riders Association of Triumph. http://www.triumph.co.uk/usa/ratHome.aspx
BMW MOA, BMW Motorcycle Owners America. http://www.bmwmoa.org/
Good or bad, MGNOC is something completely different.
I don't think BMW MOA is owned or run by BMW, at least they were independant when I was a member.
True -- no BMW corporate ownership of the BMW MOA. In addition, there is another major national BMW club: BMW Rider Association (BMWRA). It is significantly smaller than the BMW MOA and is focused slightly differently. Many BMW riders belong to both clubs. I'd say the BMWRA is closer to the reality of MGNOC than BMW MOA, and I think many MGNOC members would feel comfortable with the RA. As I said, smaller; also less glossy; more issue-driven; more old-school riders as a percentage of total membership.
For the record, I consider myself an old-school rider and a member of both MOA and RA -- even though I don't have any Beemers in the garage at the moment :)
Carlo
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Hey Leaf, There is no MGNOC Rep for Bama, just if you are interested. There are more than a few Guzzis over there.
Supporting MGNOC & Franks efforts since 1980
What ever happened to the World Guzzi Club in the USA, non supported here unless you go there.
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Hey Leaf, There is no MGNOC Rep for Bama, just if you are interested. There are more than a few Guzzis over there.
Supporting MGNOC & Franks efforts since 1980
What ever happened to the World Guzzi Club in the USA, non supported here unless you go there.
I spoke to Frank about it years ago, he literally said screw them. If you'll look we are probably the only major country not represented.
Dean
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How many current members does MGNOC have?
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The way I see it, there is a real problem facing the club right now. I believe there is a small report from Frank in the April issue that states membership numbers had tumbled dramatically over the past few years,from there highs of the late 90s. However, he said that just over the last few months the number of memberships have been climbing, still a long way from the high water mark, but headed in the right direction. That's great for the club, and I hope it continues, but I fear it won't.
Not having a paper issue has and does turn off a lot of people, I don't like it either, but I do understand the thinking behind it. Now at the risk of getting flamed by the faithful, ( I have noticed in the past anyone who dares to criticize the club gets jumped on hard by those who feel it's sacrilegious to do so) I'm going to address what I feel that real problem is.
What does a prospective new member get out of a membership? He gets an on line monthly mag that on occasion is pretty weak on content (and yes I have contributed at least two articles to the MGNOC over the years of my membership). A couple stickers, and the best part as I see it, the knowing that he is supporting the brand and people who share a passion for these wonderfull bikes. That is it. I'm a member primarily for the last reason. I don't read the digital mag very closely, I'll scan it for anything that looks interesting, but I certainly don't read it cover to cover like I used to when it came in the mail. I think that's a big problem. There are a lot of folks who are just going to say, "it's not worth it, I don't get anything tangible from a membership". A person can find out where all the Guzzi gatherings and rallies are without being a member. I personally know several guys who used to be MGNOC members but who have let their memberships laps because they said to me, "why should I?", or "yea, I probably should be a member again, but you know now that there is no magazine, why spend the money?
I'm not saying that this perspective is right or wrong, I am saying that I think it is and will be the opinion of many current and potential members unless something is changed. I bring this up, because I don't want to see the club fade away. I think Frank needs to figure out a way to offer more to the club members if he wants to keep it viable. And before someone pokes me in the eye and says, "well if you are so dam smart bad Chad, what's your great idea?" I don't have one, I wish I did, I'd share it with Frank if I could. But pretending that all is great with the club and always will be is in my opinion burying ones head in the sand.
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Frank could and I'm glad he doesn't. Ask the state reps. and the sponsors of any MGNOC related activities to charge more for rally fees.
The Wildgoose Forum is the official sanctioned website for the MGNOC. Frank told Luap or Luap told Frank that the forum would work and link it through the MGNOC website. IIRC Anyone can correct me if they want to.
I'd be the rep. for Hawaii but if I put one a rally it'd be in my garage or yard with me looking in the mirror and what fun would that be? I'd rather be melting rubber off the tires in the mountains. ;-T ;-T ;-T ;-T :-* :-* :-* :-*
I know MGNOC members that aren't forum members. I know Guzzi owners that are neither. I know motorcycle owners that aren't AMA members. Will the sky fall? Hardly but it does depend on the members and their participation. It is voluntary. One of the biggest unwritten benefit that still isn't mentioned.
Most MGNOC members will open their doors to you without hesitation. When I buy or sell a bike which is seldom. I'm more secure in dealing with a club member than I would be of a total stranger. I've done fly-n-rides w/o knowing the seller but because of the club membership I've had instant friends. I'm hesitant to be as open with non-club members when they come to Hawaii. If I get an email that they're coming here. If I don't know you I ask if you're a member.
A Daytona RS ride in the mountains in Hawaii at speed. That cannot be purchased by a non-member.
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The way I see it, there is a real problem facing the club right now. I believe there is a small report from Frank in the April issue that states membership numbers had tumbled dramatically over the past few years,from there highs of the late 90s. However, he said that just over the last few months the number of memberships have been climbing, still a long way from the high water mark, but headed in the right direction. That's great for the club, and I hope it continues, but I fear it won't.
Not having a paper issue has and does turn off a lot of people, I don't like it either, but I do understand the thinking behind it. Now at the risk of getting flamed by the faithful, ( I have noticed in the past anyone who dares to criticize the club gets jumped on hard by those who feel it's sacrilegious to do so) I'm going to address what I feel that real problem is.
What does a prospective new member get out of a membership? He gets an on line monthly mag that on occasion is pretty weak on content (and yes I have contributed at least two articles to the MGNOC over the years of my membership). A couple stickers, and the best part as I see it, the knowing that he is supporting the brand and people who share a passion for these wonderfull bikes. That is it. I'm a member primarily for the last reason. I don't read the digital mag very closely, I'll scan it for anything that looks interesting, but I certainly don't read it cover to cover like I used to when it came in the mail. I think that's a big problem. There are a lot of folks who are just going to say, "it's not worth it, I don't get anything tangible from a membership". A person can find out where all the Guzzi gatherings and rallies are without being a member. I personally know several guys who used to be MGNOC members but who have let their memberships laps because they said to me, "why should I?", or "yea, I probably should be a member again, but you know now that there is no magazine, why spend the money?
I'm not saying that this perspective is right or wrong, I am saying that I think it is and will be the opinion of many current and potential members unless something is changed. I bring this up, because I don't want to see the club fade away. I think Frank needs to figure out a way to offer more to the club members if he wants to keep it viable. And before someone pokes me in the eye and says, "well if you are so dam smart bad Chad, what's your great idea?" I don't have one, I wish I did, I'd share it with Frank if I could. But pretending that all is great with the club and always will be is in my opinion burying ones head in the sand.
Hi chad,
I appreciate all the thoughts on the club from everyone. I didn't want to start the thread to cause any arguments. And so far so good. Without out the MGNOC, do you think people will just continue to carry on with their rallies? With no online newsletter for information, do you think we can get all the info we want off google? I don't know. I myself haven't had anyone ask me why they should continue with the club. I know some have quit sending in dues because they simply don't use a computer and don't want to.. That is fine, there was certainly a time when I didn't think I would ever mess with one either. But I also remember hearing lots of rants and raving because we did not have an online newsletter. We got that and now we hear "Why should I".
Most people that go to a guzzi rally are not going to support the club. They go because over the years they have met some really good people and have became friends with them. I also know people that have quit riding other brands and picked up Guzzi's. I also think that the majority of state reps that take time away to put on a rally do it because #1 they are a rep for the MGNOC, and #2 because they have enjoyed what it brought them for doing so. And I am sure there are other reasons too.
I am thankful as a state rep that I don't need to ask the question.....Why should I... Maybe one day people will quit coming to ours here in Arkansas...I don't know....But we hope not.
Steve
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One of the things not mentioned is that almost all of the alternate MG websites are maintained and established by MGNOC members.
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I haven't taken part in any club stuff yet but I did join MGNOC a couple of months ago. ;-T
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In my humble opinion everyone who owns a Guzzi, or even smiles when they see one go by should belong to MGNOC.
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I haven't taken part in any club stuff yet but I did join MGNOC a couple of months ago. ;-T
Guzzis in the Blue Ridge Rally early August. ;-T
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I joined MGNOC in2005 I think. Then let the membership expire. I did go to one official rally in CA at bodega bay which was great. I bought two guzzis recently and joined up again.
I have the patch on my jacket ;-T
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The Wildgoose Forum is the official sanctioned website for the MGNOC. Frank told Luap or Luap told Frank that the forum would work and link it through the MGNOC website. IIRC Anyone can correct me if they want to.
Maybe things have changed in recent years...but I understood that wildguzzi and the MGNOC are two separate entities. Frank Wedge created the MGNOC a long long time ago, and Luap created wildguzzi maybe within the past 10 years. Several MGNOC members might frequent this discussion board, but a link to the MGNOC site is the only connection I believe these two things have in common.
Personally, I believe the separation is a good thing.
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Seems like the questions being asked in this thread (and a similar one currently running on WG) have to do with the value and viability of MGNOC as a club as it is currently structured.
The questioners seem to be saying that the current structure doesn't suit a fair number of long-timers and may not be attractive to sufficient numbers of prospective members.
The answerers seem to be defending the status quo.
All involved seem to have the best interests of the marque and its admirers at heart. The real issue would appear to be to get all involved onto the same page. And no, I don't have a solution ready to fill the void. I'm better at questions than answers; might be an occupational habit on my part.
Rather than trying to decide whether it's appropriate to keep patching holes to keep the ship afloat, perhaps it's time to seek dry-dock for a refit. Maybe take a look at what other clubs are offering and doing well that could be adapted to MGNOC. I truly don't think that we are all that different than riders of many other marques -- at least if we look at a cross-section of the riders.
All that said, and keeping with my stated bias to questions, I ask, "What isn't MGNOC doing for you? What are other clubs offering that MGNOC isn't? Any specific suggestions to improve MGNOC with the thought to grow the membership?"
And now to resume my seat at the periphery of the campfire . . .
Carlo (who still has his MGNOC number, but hasn't re-upped for a couple of years)
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And after posting the above, I read the last crop of replies to the "Paging Frank Wedge" thread and find that maybe my words above are redundant to what many others have said in that thread.
Then again, maybe redundant is good if it suggests that we are more of a mind than not.
OK, NOW I'll get to the periphery . . .
No, really . . .
Carlo
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Thanks guys.......all this talk has reminded me that I first joined MGNOC 40 years ago this coming July
My longest continuing membership in anything cept for the club of the working man and those dues have nearly killed me keeping the IRS happy.
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MGNOC doesn't have a forum that I'm aware of nor any manpower to support one. Wild Guzzi fulfills that need without any real agenda. It doesn't take Guzzi owner long to find the MGNOC web site and look up rallies plus many MGNOC functions seems to get covered here so I think there's a good synergy between the two.
My sentiments, exactly. I also own and use regularly a Yamaha and a Suzuki, both 1000cc sport bikes, but the Guzzi Stone Touring is the "keeper" of the lot. I am an MGNOC member and have no intention of leaving that group. I also am very grateful to and respectful of Luap and the WGCMG site which brings us Guzzisti together for mutual assistance and camaraderie. The two nicely compliment one another.
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I don't belong to anything but I do belong to MGNOC .
If the dues break me I was already broke. ;)
You guys paid attention to how healthy Frank is?
He will probably out live most who bitch about him ;D
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I've always told myself that it's easy to get interested in something but staying interested is a different matter. I see Frank Wedge as a long term interest person and he has proven that. He's put more miles on Guzzi's than I ever will. He has exerted himself in the club like no one else. Sometimes the most critical people are those that not only haven't done anything nor will they and ultimately change interests. I think some of these simply are in it for "ME" and the moment rather than support something that requires decades of support. So my hat is off to not only Frank but anyone who stays interested.
I joined MGNOC as a life member because I didn't want to be bothered with renewing all the time, I was very excited about Guzzi and I knew my money was going to help support someone/something who I felt had something that I wanted to support. Think of this, HOG is big and popular though I'm not a member and probably won't be but it's big and popular. Perhaps the MGNOC is what it is because most involved are in the giving frame of mind in stead of getting. My problem with the Harley brand (btw I love Harleys, have one) is I don't like the "I'm better than you" attitude/ego that many have. Not everyone is like this but I don't see this ego with Guzzi. Sure, I see pride in the Guzzi ownership but to elevate oneself and look down on others because of the bike you own...come on. So I think it's refreshing to see something different. BUT HOG is big and popular!!
I made a suggestion to Frank once about having mileage awards that recognize smaller goals i.e. 25,000, 50,000 instead of only the 100,000. He said something that is very thought provoking..."It cost money". He's right. Any and every idea cost thought, planning, effort, time, money, production, handling, promotion. Who's lap is this further cost going to fall into? Thank you Frank for not only what you do but what I know you will do within the bounds of these costs. One thing is for sure he has stayed interested. ;-T
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I've always told myself that it's easy to get interested in something but staying interested is a different matter.
I can't begin to count the number of times that someone new (typically a non-MGNOC member) has come to me and told me that we need to do this, or that , or have rides, or have meetings, or whatever. I ask them if they have any ideas or can help, and the answer is typically a flat NO, or that they don't have the time. Those people also usually don't have a Guzzi a year or two later.
Did they sell the Guzzi because we didn't have enough events for them, or because they have a short attention span and just like to move around. I suspect it is the later, but the outward and visible part is that we aren't doing enough for them.
I try to have rides, year long events, at least one campout. But less then 10% of the Georgia MGNOC members care to participate. That happens to be a very very tiny group. If I submit an idea to the group for an event, I am lucky if I get even one reply.
What is the answer? I sure don't have a clue. But one thing is certain, if some newby walks up and tells me I need to do things for HIM, I am not going to jump. On the other hand, if they walked up with ideas and THEY wanted to help see them through, then I'm listening. But that doesn't happen often, if ever.
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The situation here is that the MGNOC is a privately owned company. Because of this it is up to the owner(s) of this company to keep their product relevant and saleable to us the consumer of this product. Is it our responsibility to do so? Not sure of the answer to that question. But I do know that Frank has to figure out how to make this work or else it will die. That my friends is the plain truth.
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What's the problem with MGNOC?
I read this month's newsletter and I'm happy. A list of rallies, a tips section, and relevant advertising and rider stories. I joined mainly to have the nationwide list of "rescuers" in case I breakdown in the hinterlands. That's worth the price right there.
I don't see a problem with MGNOC. It meets my expectations.
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If there was no MGNOC would there even be any rallies for anyone to go to? Would there be a contact directory for help on the road? Who would do these things?
Obviously, the internet is changing things. Getting tips on how to fix your old bike is a google search away and forums provide ample opportunity for people to connect if they so choose. There are several good places to find parts and classified ads are easy enough to find so what do you really get from being a member?
My belief is that the MGNOC and the rallies and events it puts on are one of the things that make Guzzi ownership more attractive...or at least less scary for some that may be afraid of the weak dealer support etc. The rallies, events, enthusiasm, and camaraderie of the members helps attract new dealers or maybe keeps good dealers from giving up on Guzzi. It is a factor in whether or not someone thinks they can have a Guzzi centric business or forum and not lose their butt.
It's kind of an intangible thing but if there is no more MGNOC then maybe the parts suppliers, dealers, and forums, become weaker, which ultimately hurts anyone who owns a guzzi or is considering it.
For me, that is enough to be a member.
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Hello all-
Maybe it's my perspective as a newbie (just joined MGNOC literally days ago), or my fresh interest in the marque, fueled by the fact that I've gotten to ride to work 2 days in a row now, finally, but my take on the Club so far is this. For the market segment that Guzzi has, our Owner's Club seems downright vibrant.
When we got back into bikes, we rode a Suzuki for a couple years before we met Benedetta. I never heard about a Suzuki owner's group (although I guess there is one), even while frequenting Suzuki-specific forums. If I had sought them out & pursued it, would there have been 2 or 3 rallies within a good day's ride of me? Highly unlikely. Do the members of that group fondly remember their evenings around a campfire, building lifelong relationships with like-minded folk from far & wide & all walks of life? I doubt it. Would a Suzuki rider from the Netherlands come over & have a built-in, coast-to-coast network of helping hands & places to stay (I'm assuming many/ most of those who have helped are members....) for a tour of our great country? No, I say, NO! For the size of the Guzzi contingent, I'd say it's a pretty active & committed group. Maybe it's the size that makes it that way, but I think it's more about the quality, not the quantity.
Can I get all that without joining MGNOC? Mostly, other than the contact directory, which service Wildgoose Chase can & does provide an acceptible substitute for if the club weren't here. Would all the above exist without MGNOC? Possibly, but I wouldn't think so. What does a HOG member get for his or her annual fee?
It's early yet, but so far we're pleased with what we're getting from our national organization - prompt, personal, friendly service & the promise of good things to come - much like what we are getting here in the Wildgoose forum. I've paid a lot more & gotten a lot less.....
randy & lois
Keep your knees in the breeze.
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I've thought about joining a couple times but haven't. I'm probably wrong...but my perception is that most of the members are 50+ and own Cali or pre-Cali bikes. I like all bikes and love wandering around at open houses and multi-make meets looking at bikes and socializing but I'm not really interested in attending a single-make rally. I'm not sitting here saying to myself, "They should do something for me." I just don't see the benefit to joining at this time. I have an open mind about it and could change my opinion if I learned there was something that made it worth my $.
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If there was no MGNOC would there even be any rallies for anyone to go to? Would there be a contact directory for help on the road? Who would do these things?
Obviously, the internet is changing things. Getting tips on how to fix your old bike is a google search away and forums provide ample opportunity for people to connect if they so choose. There are several good places to find parts and classified ads are easy enough to find so what do you really get from being a member?
My belief is that the MGNOC and the rallies and events it puts on are one of the things that make Guzzi ownership more attractive...or at least less scary for some that may be afraid of the weak dealer support etc. The rallies, events, enthusiasm, and camaraderie of the members helps attract new dealers or maybe keeps good dealers from giving up on Guzzi. It is a factor in whether or not someone thinks they can have a Guzzi centric business or forum and not lose their butt.
It's kind of an intangible thing but if there is no more MGNOC then maybe the parts suppliers, dealers, and forums, become weaker, which ultimately hurts anyone who owns a guzzi or is considering it. For me, that is enough to be a member.
I love to attend Guzzi rallys! But have you looked around at who attends these things. Far and away, mostly gray hairs! I don't see young people attracted in any kinds of meaningful numbers to the MGNOC the way it is operating now, do you guys? That is why I am thinking that if the club is going to make another 40 years, it better get more hip.
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What's the problem with MGNOC?
I read this month's newsletter and I'm happy. A list of rallies, a tips section, and relevant advertising and rider stories. I joined mainly to have the nationwide list of "rescuers" in case I breakdown in the hinterlands. That's worth the price right there.
I don't see a problem with MGNOC. It meets my expectations.
+1 We do not have a problem.
Matt
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Back in the day when I attend my first Guzzi rally I was one of the youngest being only 22 (I could still pass for 16) ,lot of grey hair around then.
Most of my peers were not into rally's let alone an old man's bike like a Guzzi,I can still remember the awkward air there was when I showed up the first time were my peers hung out on my Ambo.........one nitwit thought it wasn't bad but needed more chrome,lot more.
I remember my grey haired dealer wouldn't take me serious as a buyer,remember I could pass for 16,what changed his mind was when I brought in a cash deposit.
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If there was no MGNOC would there even be any rallies for anyone to go to? Would there be a contact directory for help on the road? Who would do these things?
Obviously, the internet is changing things. Getting tips on how to fix your old bike is a google search away and forums provide ample opportunity for people to connect if they so choose. There are several good places to find parts and classified ads are easy enough to find so what do you really get from being a member?
My belief is that the MGNOC and the rallies and events it puts on are one of the things that make Guzzi ownership more attractive...or at least less scary for some that may be afraid of the weak dealer support etc. The rallies, events, enthusiasm, and camaraderie of the members helps attract new dealers or maybe keeps good dealers from giving up on Guzzi. It is a factor in whether or not someone thinks they can have a Guzzi centric business or forum and not lose their butt.
It's kind of an intangible thing but if there is no more MGNOC then maybe the parts suppliers, dealers, and forums, become weaker, which ultimately hurts anyone who owns a guzzi or is considering it. For me, that is enough to be a member.
I love to attend Guzzi rallys! But have you looked around at who attends these things. Far and away, mostly gray hairs! I don't see young people attracted in any kinds of meaningful numbers to the MGNOC the way it is operating now, do you guys? That is why I am thinking that if the club is going to make another 40 years, it better get more hip.
People seem to come to Guzzi's later in life perhaps when they are more mature. That process will continue and doesn't require attracting 20 somethings. They need to sow their wild oats and some of them will discover guzzi when they are ready just as many current guzzi riders have. At that point they probably won't mind the more mature crowds found at Guzzi rallies.
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I've thought about joining a couple times but haven't. I'm probably wrong...but my perception is that most of the members are 50+ and own Cali or pre-Cali bikes. I like all bikes and love wandering around at open houses and multi-make meets looking at bikes and socializing but I'm not really interested in attending a single-make rally. I'm not sitting here saying to myself, "They should do something for me." I just don't see the benefit to joining at this time. I have an open mind about it and could change my opinion if I learned there was something that made it worth my $.
You're not wrong about the age range. You're not wrong about the majority of bikes ridden to the events.
However, there are people riding newer bikes and spine frame bikes and small block bikes.
Think of it as a Guzzi-oriented destination, or half-way point, on a weekend ride. That's what I decided to do.
Although I'm always one of the youngest in attendance, the campouts/rallies are always a great place to end up while out riding one of my Guzzis.
There are a few people who hang around the campground all day, but mostly people will head out on Saturday Mornings and be gone all day riding. Guzzi gatherings are more about riding than about hanging out and staring at bikes. I've been on some great lunch rides when attending Guzzi campout rallies. Last weekend, Carl Allison, Turkey Creek Dave, Marcia and I had a great little twisty backroads lunch ride. Me on my Nero Corsa, they on thier V7s.
I know distance may be an issue for you, being up in Vermont, but you should try some Guzzi events. They don't ask for your membership card at the door. All are welcome.
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I love to attend Guzzi rallys! But have you looked around at who attends these things. Far and away, mostly gray hairs! I don't see young people attracted in any kinds of meaningful numbers to the MGNOC the way it is operating now, do you guys? That is why I am thinking that if the club is going to make another 40 years, it better get more hip.
What you say is probably true, but what would you suggest?
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I've thought about joining a couple times but haven't. I'm probably wrong...but my perception is that most of the members are 50+ and own Cali or pre-Cali bikes. I like all bikes and love wandering around at open houses and multi-make meets looking at bikes and socializing but I'm not really interested in attending a single-make rally. I'm not sitting here saying to myself, "They should do something for me." I just don't see the benefit to joining at this time. I have an open mind about it and could change my opinion if I learned there was something that made it worth my $.
You're not wrong about the age range. You're not wrong about the majority of bikes ridden to the events.
However, there are people riding newer bikes and spine frame bikes and small block bikes.
Think of it as a Guzzi-oriented destination, or half-way point, on a weekend ride. That's what I decided to do.
Although I'm always one of the youngest in attendance, the campouts/rallies are always a great place to end up while out riding one of my Guzzis.
There are a few people who hang around the campground all day, but mostly people will head out on Saturday Mornings and be gone all day riding. Guzzi gatherings are more about riding than about hanging out and staring at bikes. I've been on some great lunch rides when attending Guzzi campout rallies. Last weekend, Carl Allison, Turkey Creek Dave, Marcia and I had a great little twisty backroads lunch ride. Me on my Nero Corsa, they on thier V7s.
I know distance may be an issue for you, being up in Vermont, but you should try some Guzzi events. They don't ask for your membership card at the door. All are welcome.
What you say makes sense. I don't mind riding anywhere as long as I have the time and money. It's just that I don't want to make plans, re-arrange my work schedule and ride a long way just to listen to bunch of guys sit around a fire talking about steel cut oats and how all Moto Guzzis since Piaggio took over suck.
With my limited time off in the summer, I want to spend it doing positive things with positive people. Maybe I'll try hitting some of the closer day events and keep an open mind. Thanks.
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I don't want to make plans, re-arrange my work schedule and ride a long way just to listen to bunch of guys sit around a fire talking about steel cut oats and how all Moto Guzzis since Piaggio took over suck.
But you don't have to. Just like on WG, there are several different "groups" who attend. Some show up to just sit around and drink beer and eat steel-cut oats. Some want to talk about the glory of the Loop Frame. Some don't want to talk at all. Some just want to ride.
For me it's about riding and eating and seeing cool things along the way. And, I actually enjoy occasionally sleeping in a tent...
Here's an example for you:
I had spent very little time in Kansas. Never really saw the point. Other than I-70 and I-35, I hadn't experienced any of it. Well, a couple years ago, I decided to join Michael D and make a ride up to the Kansas Campout in Council Grove. What a neat little town. Ate dinner at The Hays House ( hayshouse.com ), checked out some cool Santa Fe Trail history, and found a couple of twisty backroads I didn't think would exist! 350 miles up, eat, camp (at a nice place on a lake), 350 miles back. Nice way to spend a weekend on a Guzzi. And now I know that there is much to see in Kansas!
2009 Ride Report Link: http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=26464.0
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The Wildgoose Forum is the official sanctioned website for the MGNOC. Frank told Luap or Luap told Frank that the forum would work and link it through the MGNOC website. IIRC Anyone can correct me if they want to.
Maybe things have changed in recent years...but I understood that wildguzzi and the MGNOC are two separate entities. Frank Wedge created the MGNOC a long long time ago, and Luap created wildguzzi maybe within the past 10 years. Several MGNOC members might frequent this discussion board, but a link to the MGNOC site is the only connection I believe these two things have in common.
Personally, I believe the separation is a good thing.
Correct. Frank asked me to maintain mgnoc after wildguzzi.com was already online, and I said ok. I think it was 1998 when I first started wildguzzi, and about 1999 when I began maintaining mgnoc. At that time, wildguzzi was just pictures and tips mainly and the discussion board (old html feedback style) on the mgnoc site just plain sucked and was down daily. I asked Frank what he thought we should do and he said just pull it because he was tired of the complaints anyway. I told him there were probably 100 people (at that time) that used it religiously and that I would probably put something on wildguzzi temporarily to see how it went, and he said go for it, and here we are today.
There's still a lot of members here that used the old discussion board back then. Funny really. Wildguzzi started as a way to just see photos of Guzzis and share some tips with a limit of 20MB per month. Now, we move 20MB a minute on a slow day ;D
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If there was no MGNOC would there even be any rallies for anyone to go to? Would there be a contact directory for help on the road? Who would do these things?
Obviously, the internet is changing things. Getting tips on how to fix your old bike is a google search away and forums provide ample opportunity for people to connect if they so choose. There are several good places to find parts and classified ads are easy enough to find so what do you really get from being a member?
My belief is that the MGNOC and the rallies and events it puts on are one of the things that make Guzzi ownership more attractive...or at least less scary for some that may be afraid of the weak dealer support etc. The rallies, events, enthusiasm, and camaraderie of the members helps attract new dealers or maybe keeps good dealers from giving up on Guzzi. It is a factor in whether or not someone thinks they can have a Guzzi centric business or forum and not lose their butt.
It's kind of an intangible thing but if there is no more MGNOC then maybe the parts suppliers, dealers, and forums, become weaker, which ultimately hurts anyone who owns a guzzi or is considering it. For me, that is enough to be a member.
I love to attend Guzzi rallys! But have you looked around at who attends these things. Far and away, mostly gray hairs! I don't see young people attracted in any kinds of meaningful numbers to the MGNOC the way it is operating now, do you guys? That is why I am thinking that if the club is going to make another 40 years, it better get more hip.
Chad, I been putting on a campout/rally for 22 years...Like I have always said, ya can't please everyone. Your comments make me wonder what you have done to make things more suitable to you. Why do you come to a Guzzi rally and spend a weekend with a bunch of grey hairs anyway? Just wondering....Have you thought about getting a different brand and attending one of their rallies? You know, something with a younger crowd....I don't know. If I think like you, I am sure I wouldn't spend time worrying about why older people ride this brand....I would get me something else. Who Knows?
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Why the concern if Frank owns "it"? Would people expect a thick glossy magazine and free jacket & coffee cup with membership if someone else owned it? Frank asks for ideas yearly and I doubt many send him an answer!
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was a member for a few years let it drop got busy and never renewed after reading this topic iwill renew tomorrow
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I've thought about joining a couple times but haven't. I'm probably wrong...but my perception is that most of the members are 50+ and own Cali or pre-Cali bikes. I like all bikes and love wandering around at open houses and multi-make meets looking at bikes and socializing but I'm not really interested in attending a single-make rally. I'm not sitting here saying to myself, "They should do something for me." I just don't see the benefit to joining at this time. I have an open mind about it and could change my opinion if I learned there was something that made it worth my $.
You're not wrong about the age range. You're not wrong about the majority of bikes ridden to the events.
However, there are people riding newer bikes and spine frame bikes and small block bikes.
Think of it as a Guzzi-oriented destination, or half-way point, on a weekend ride. That's what I decided to do.
Although I'm always one of the youngest in attendance, the campouts/rallies are always a great place to end up while out riding one of my Guzzis.
There are a few people who hang around the campground all day, but mostly people will head out on Saturday Mornings and be gone all day riding. Guzzi gatherings are more about riding than about hanging out and staring at bikes. I've been on some great lunch rides when attending Guzzi campout rallies. Last weekend, Carl Allison, Turkey Creek Dave, Marcia and I had a great little twisty backroads lunch ride. Me on my Nero Corsa, they on thier V7s.
I know distance may be an issue for you, being up in Vermont, but you should try some Guzzi events. They don't ask for your membership card at the door. All are welcome.
What you say makes sense. I don't mind riding anywhere as long as I have the time and money. It's just that I don't want to make plans, re-arrange my work schedule and ride a long way just to listen to bunch of guys sit around a fire talking about steel cut oats and how all Moto Guzzis since Piaggio took over suck.
With my limited time off in the summer, I want to spend it doing positive things with positive people. Maybe I'll try hitting some of the closer day events and keep an open mind. Thanks.
You gotta be kiddin'. 2062 posts on every subject on earth, and you're afraid you'll be listening to steel-cut oats talk?
Man, COME to a rally. 130 people or so at the Virginia rally, and there will probably be 20 different groups of people standing around and sitting around. Some not talking, just communing, some talking loudly, some talking quietly ... you can move from one to the other or find one you like, the time just flies and before you know it it's after midnight ...
To be honest, this thing we do on HERE is a f****** waste of time compared to actually MEETING Guzzisti at a rally ...
Lannis
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Once this summer hits for me and I have lots of time off (I'm a teacher so the summer is my fun time) I will be paying for my lifetime membership.
I really want it for the network of "rescuers" as mentioned earlier. I would love to be able to travel hundreds of miles and know somebody out there with the Guzzi knowledge, and perhaps Guzzi trailer, will be there to assist me if I needed it.
Also, I'm 22 and I'll be there for at least one Guzzi rally this year. I will have to tag along with my Dad for a Sturgis trip on his Harley, but I hope to meet those of you who helped me on these forums... perhaps at the national meet! I've never been to Iowa. ;D
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I've thought about joining a couple times but haven't. I'm probably wrong...but my perception is that most of the members are 50+ and own Cali or pre-Cali bikes. I like all bikes and love wandering around at open houses and multi-make meets looking at bikes and socializing but I'm not really interested in attending a single-make rally. I'm not sitting here saying to myself, "They should do something for me." I just don't see the benefit to joining at this time. I have an open mind about it and could change my opinion if I learned there was something that made it worth my $.
You're not wrong about the age range. You're not wrong about the majority of bikes ridden to the events.
However, there are people riding newer bikes and spine frame bikes and small block bikes.
Think of it as a Guzzi-oriented destination, or half-way point, on a weekend ride. That's what I decided to do.
Although I'm always one of the youngest in attendance, the campouts/rallies are always a great place to end up while out riding one of my Guzzis.
There are a few people who hang around the campground all day, but mostly people will head out on Saturday Mornings and be gone all day riding. Guzzi gatherings are more about riding than about hanging out and staring at bikes. I've been on some great lunch rides when attending Guzzi campout rallies. Last weekend, Carl Allison, Turkey Creek Dave, Marcia and I had a great little twisty backroads lunch ride. Me on my Nero Corsa, they on thier V7s.
I know distance may be an issue for you, being up in Vermont, but you should try some Guzzi events. They don't ask for your membership card at the door. All are welcome.
What you say makes sense. I don't mind riding anywhere as long as I have the time and money. It's just that I don't want to make plans, re-arrange my work schedule and ride a long way just to listen to bunch of guys sit around a fire talking about steel cut oats and how all Moto Guzzis since Piaggio took over suck.
With my limited time off in the summer, I want to spend it doing positive things with positive people. Maybe I'll try hitting some of the closer day events and keep an open mind. Thanks.
You gotta be kiddin'. 2062 posts on every subject on earth, and you're afraid you'll be listening to steel-cut oats talk?
Man, COME to a rally. 130 people or so at the Virginia rally, and there will probably be 20 different groups of people standing around and sitting around. Some not talking, just communing, some talking loudly, some talking quietly ... you can move from one to the other or find one you like, the time just flies and before you know it it's after midnight ...
To be honest, this thing we do on HERE is a f****** waste of time compared to actually MEETING Guzzisti at a rally ...
Lannis
LOL...I'm not afraid of a conversation about oats. I just don't want to take time off from work(I work for myself so time off = 0$$$) to ride someplace to listen to people be grumpy or negative. I love talking about bikes and meeting new people. I'd love to chat with you about your BSA's or just about anyone but what I don't want to do is listen to a 4 hour conversation about blood pressure medication, steel cut oats and how Piaggio's corporate headquarters is secretly the 7th gate to hell.
Know what I mean?
You and Rocker have convinced me that I should at least make an effort though. I'll have to pick one and see what the hubbub is about. There are worse things than finding out my perceptions were completely wrong.
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LOL...I'm not afraid of a conversation about oats. I just don't want to take time off from work(I work for myself so time off = 0$$$) to ride someplace to listen to people be grumpy or negative. I love talking about bikes and meeting new people. I'd love to chat with you about your BSA's or just about anyone but what I don't want to do is listen to a 4 hour conversation about blood pressure medication, steel cut oats and how Piaggio's corporate headquarters is secretly the 7th gate to hell.
Know what I mean?
You and Rocker have convinced me that I should at least make an effort though. I'll have to pick one and see what the hubbub is about. There are worse things than finding out my perceptions were completely wrong.
John, here is the link to last year's Arkansas Campout that SWalker puts on. Steve puts on a good one in a great part of the country. Our Saturday Lunch Ride was great!
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=37370.0
You should think seriously about The National Rally when it comes to Buena Vista Virginia. That'll be good one!
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LOL...I'm not afraid of a conversation about oats. I just don't want to take time off from work(I work for myself so time off = 0$$$) to ride someplace to listen to people be grumpy or negative. I love talking about bikes and meeting new people. I'd love to chat with you about your BSA's or just about anyone but what I don't want to do is listen to a 4 hour conversation about blood pressure medication, steel cut oats and how Piaggio's corporate headquarters is secretly the 7th gate to hell.
Know what I mean?
You and Rocker have convinced me that I should at least make an effort though. I'll have to pick one and see what the hubbub is about. There are worse things than finding out my perceptions were completely wrong.
Not to beat it to death, but I'm tellin' ya, even at a small rally people are spread out over 2 acres. The first minute (not 4 hours, the first MINUTE) you hear some grumpy fart (and they ARE there) talking about Piaggio politics or slamming Harleys or talking their Atenolol dosage, you just drift backwards, they fade away, and you find another group to talk with, until you have either talked to everyone (which will take 3 days) or you are stuck into a little circle of kindred spirits and you don't WANT to leave .....
Lannis
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I've got to agree, go to a rally. Rarely a negative vibe, just nice people riding bikes, talking about bikes, drinking beers, and having fun. I'm 46, and have been going for over ten years (bald, but not much grey). I look forward to the time spent with everyone. Screw work. Pack up and try one out. Most of those in attendance have jobs too, but we enjoy it so much we make the time. I've met life-long friends that will bend over backwards for you. It's not the BS that you encounter on a computer. Those with keyboard muscles don't have the balls to say the same things to anyone's face. Most of the true Guzzi people attend the rallies, and you'll be glad you did.
Cam
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I've got friends that I have met attending a rally here or there and really look forward each year to see and camp with them. If you haven't been to a Moto Guzzi rally you are missing out on one life's pleasures. I have been a loner my whole life, and I have made more friends since I bought my first GUZZI than I could imagine.
Dean
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I've got friends that I have met attending a rally here or there and really look forward each year to see and camp with them. If you haven't been to a Moto Guzzi rally you are missing out on one life's pleasures. I have been a loner my whole life, and I have made more friends since I bought my first GUZZI than I could imagine.
Dean
Look at Dean's avatar (I think that's what they call it). If he can make friends, anyone can.
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I've met life-long friends that will bend over backwards for you. It's not the BS that you encounter on a computer. Those with keyboard muscles don't have the balls to say the same things to anyone's face. Most of the true Guzzi people attend the rallies, and you'll be glad you did.
Cam, How come we always raise hell and liven up the grey hairs at Heath? You and the Brothers are the true MGNOC spirit. Be careful not to go in the Riva!!
Duffs ridin to work every day now, rain or shine. Will be zooming out to New Cumberland then Western NY. I hear yull be cooking the sausage for the grey hairs at Marks fishing camp. Thanks for being NJ MGNOC rep. We gotta get VT John up to Skowhegan this year. He'd fit right in.
Thanks brother for bein. Duff
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I consider all Guzzi guys and gals part of my extended and extremely dysfunctional family. ;D All you have to do is go to a rally, and you probably will, too.. I've met lifetime friends, and I'm a loner.
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Brotherhood
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Nothing against on-line newsletters, forums and such but I like that I can go to the garage and open a box of MGNOC printed newsletters from the mid '80s and sit and read for a couple of hours. It's better when I come across them accidentally. Same with the old MGNOC Tips manuals and period catalogs and cut sheets.
None of the computers I've had from that era survived and hundreds of the old 5.25" and 3.5" floppies with stories processed in WordPerfect have gone to the great toxic landfill.
Print, for centuries, has been the archive format of choice and I've never had a book crash and need an upgrade or BIOS flash just to continue being a book. I prefer it. Just keep the silverfish and moisture away.
Bit pusher at work, Luddite at home.
Tobit,
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... listen to bunch of guys sit around a fire talking about steel cut oats .
Noooooooooooow, we are getting down to it ! It's all about the oats ! I've been trying to tell you guys !
By the way, we need to get back on that. Any new recipes to share, anyone ?
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A few comments and corrections.
Frank never lived in Manhatten. The first Guzzi rally was in Manhatten and Frank, MaryJo and Debbie along with all their gear was all on the Guzzi.
Frank has made all of the Nationals except for the high dollar event in Cal.
For those that complain about Frank, well, you should have been around when Wayne Halstead and the old MeatBall News was all we had. I still have one of the old MeatBall news.RacerGary might remember that.
I don't care for the online newsletter as I don't have a computer. Life goes on without looking at 3 pages of posts everyday.
I've belonged to the MGNOC and have never had a member rip me off. People that aren't motorcyclists can't believe that I ship parts with no money ahead of time. I had to go to California in 1974 to have a "little talk" with a cat that thought he might screw a dumb Texan out of some money.
And every year the same old smell of rotten fish comes up about wanting a financial report as Frank is making millions. Yet, these same goons are drinking foreign beer and smoking cigarettes without one worry about those companies. Racerary and I know where Frank lives and his lifestyle. Then you get some government worker that thinks he puts out a newsletter that costs $1.00 a year and the rest is clear profit. Oh, and he just waves the magic wand.
The hardworking MGNOC reps put on the rallies that are dirt cheap compared to the generic rallies. I held the free get-to-gather at Italy, Texas for 25 years in October (so I had enough money to go to the Bahamas all winter. ::)) Can you believe that some thought this was true?
Long live the MGNOC and all the members that are always welcome at the Oleo Ranch.
Tex
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Bought my EV-Touring in August.
Just joined MGNOC 24hours ago. 8)
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Yep........both Tex and I go way back,still have my copy of the first issue of MGNOC aka Moto Meatball.Have know Frank since 1971 and he really has given a lot to keeping Guzzi's alive and the riders connected.I remember the days when Frank,Mary Jo and little Debra assembled the NL by hand.
I remember being at a National or two when they were held at Sylan Grove and Frank would get a broke down call Sunday night and we'd head out to help.
As Tex says,you'll likely have very little trouble wheeling and dealing with a fellow MGNOC club member.I remember the day the Internet and WG when Guzzi information was harder to come by ol Frank would spend a lot of time answering people's questions.
Some of the most decent,honest and helpful people go to the Rallies.
Lets not forget those hard working State Reps who put the rally on.
MGNOC is like my grandparents,there was always one of them there to help if asked
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I joined fist time back in about 86...been a life member since.....oh, shortly afterward. The three tips books alone were worth the L membership fee which I long ago got back in postage alone.
I admit I miss the papercopy newsletter, but fully understand its demise. Am kinda relieved as I never throw them away and now dont have to liten to the wife a bout what to do with them.
The club & letter obviously dont fill some of the key nitches they used to as an advertising outlet for the long suffering parts suppliers, bike sellers, and rally goers. But, be that as it may, if Frank throws in the towel, something LIKE the MGNOC will come up to fill the void I'm sure.
Personally, wether your a member or not, be grateful for hte work of the MGNOC volunteers as I'm confident that without their enthusiasm, there's be no Guzzi in the US today.
Todd L292
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I've got friends that I have met attending a rally here or there and really look forward each year to see and camp with them. If you haven't been to a Moto Guzzi rally you are missing out on one life's pleasures. I have been a loner my whole life, and I have made more friends since I bought my first GUZZI than I could imagine.
Dean
Dean, you old goat, ;D those are my exact sentiments, word for word.
I just rode on my own, 'till I purchased my Guzzi, was introduced to the MGNOC and attended the '06 PA Rally. I now ride just about every Sunday with 2 of the people I met at that rally.
I also met Harry C. (mogu83) at that rally and joined him for a few more rides/rallies after that. You'll be hard pressed to find a better rider/instructor/storyteller than Harry.
I have met some quality people (and great riders) at MG rallies and will continue to attend as many rallies as possible, while I can. The regional reps that I've met are outstanding individuals that invest much of their time and other resources to organize their respective rallies, and I'm happy that I can attend.
BTW, I do prefer the online newsletter way more than the hardcopy version.
Nick
ps.: Don't let the hair color fool you. These guys CAN ride. ;-T
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I've been on and off Guzzies since 1975, time out for kids, sailboating building my home etc...but I never lost touch with the Guzzi family. I'm a life member, have the 100K pin and wear both with pride on my jacket. I also worked with DanR in Florida to get the Central Florida Chapter where it is today. This group under Dan's direction has really raised the bar on getting an active and vibrant organization in that region. I'm now located in Northern Michigan and as I get settled in to this area, will try and repeat the process, which will be much more difficult as there are very few Guzzi folks up here.
I strongly support Frank Wedge for the organization, and also stay active on both Wildguzzi & GuzziTech sites. They are all worth any effort and $$ I can supply.
Randy
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Come to the free TX Rally in Lindale Sun Oct 2. Camp Friday or Saturday if you want. I think I'll change the lunch menu from Spaghetti to steel-cut oats since no one really seems to like the spaghetti!
I've been to lots of rallies & I've never had to get up & walk away from the campfire because people are being negative & complaining. I've never gotten depressed from listening to campfire conversations. I have had my bike worked on & received lots of good tips at rallies!
I'm a proud MGNOC member & TX Rep.
Georganne
Beaver
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Swalker said to me,
"Chad, I been putting on a campout/rally for 22 years...Like I have always said, ya can't please everyone. Your comments make me wonder what you have done to make things more suitable to you. Why do you come to a Guzzi rally and spend a weekend with a bunch of grey hairs anyway? Just wondering....Have you thought about getting a different brand and attending one of their rallies? You know, something with a younger crowd....I don't know. If I think like you, I am sure I wouldn't spend time worrying about why older people ride this brand....I would get me something else. Who Knows?"
I'm not really sure why you are slapping me around the head and shoulders? My comment was that the rallies are attended by enlarge by older folks. I didn't say or even imply that was a negative, except for my concern that without younger folks coming in and taking up the torch the rallies and club may fade away. As I said I love Guzzi rallies, they are the only rallies I have ever been to! I'm 44, and my hair, what's left of it, is at least 50% gray!!
But, Mark West brought up a point I had not considered before, perhaps people come to Moto Guzzi and the rallies later in life, after they have had a chance to sow some oats? Mark might very well be right! I'm not certain he is, but he does make a compelling argument.
Anyway, what I have said in this thread, and most others are just my opinion. Much of it for me is just thinking out loud. I could be right, I may be wrong, like anyone else. As I said, I want Moto Guzzi and the club to keep on bringing the good life to as many as possible for as long as possible, I don't in that regard you and I would differ much, do you?
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was a member for a few years let it drop got busy and never renewed after reading this topic iwill renew tomorrow
Thank you very much....
Steve
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Swalker said to me,
"Chad, I been putting on a campout/rally for 22 years...Like I have always said, ya can't please everyone. Your comments make me wonder what you have done to make things more suitable to you. Why do you come to a Guzzi rally and spend a weekend with a bunch of grey hairs anyway? Just wondering....Have you thought about getting a different brand and attending one of their rallies? You know, something with a younger crowd....I don't know. If I think like you, I am sure I wouldn't spend time worrying about why older people ride this brand....I would get me something else. Who Knows?"
I'm not really sure why you are slapping me around the head and shoulders? My comment was that the rallies are attended by enlarge by older folks. I didn't say or even imply that was a negative, except for my concern that without younger folks coming in and taking up the torch the rallies and club may fade away. As I said I love Guzzi rallies, they are the only rallies I have ever been to! I'm 44, and my hair, what's left of it, is at least 50% gray!!
But, Mark West brought up a point I had not considered before, perhaps people come to Moto Guzzi and the rallies later in life, after they have had a chance to sow some oats? Mark might very well be right! I'm not certain he is, but he does make a compelling argument.
Anyway, what I have said in this thread, and most others are just my opinion. Much of it for me is just thinking out loud. I could be right, I may be wrong, like anyone else. As I said, I want Moto Guzzi and the club to keep on bringing the good life to as many as possible for as long as possible, I don't in that regard you and I would differ much, do you?
Chad I hope you don't feel like I am slapping you around...Cause I am not. Anyone that knows me knows I will defend the guzzi club. And older person in this country doesn't get much respect anymore from younger generations. You refer to older people as grey hairs. That is about the kind of respect I am used too, except my hair isn't grey. Myself, I have learned many things from older people....Have ya ever had a young guzzi rider ask ya to come over and teach him how to set his valves, install points, sync his carbs, or just help him get his bike running right? I just did that the other day and have done so many times over the years....Dean Yotter taught me these things with no charge.
I don't think this young guzzi rider thought of me as an old man. I never met this young lad before, but he seemed very happy with the way his bike ran when I left his house...He wanted to pay me something. I told him ya don't owe me nothing....Just glad I was able to help.
I received lots of comments that I am very pleased from posting this thread. I was certainly hoping I didn't start some kind of civil war with it. And I didn't...Maybe one day there will be no more MGNOC...But I think it will be after I am gone...Until then I'll see ya on the highway or at one of the rallies!!!!!!!!!! LONG LIVE THE MGNOC!!!!!!!!
Steve
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Agreed. Long live the MGNOC! 8)
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Agreed. Long live the MGNOC! 8)
;-T ;-T ;-T ;D ;D ;D ;-T ;-T ;-T
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I have been reading this thread ..well..you know .we do not want to be a club like the BMWO or the HOG chapters ....etc . We are very, very UNIQUE . why would we want to even imitate the way some of those clubs are and loose the essence of who we are ???? What is in for me ??? I am so tired of reading the same remarks in clubs of different interests I have belong to for years , I guess if you have to explain it they would not understand !
Just my two cents,
Roberto Munoz
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why would we want to even imitate the way some of those clubs are and loose the essence of who we are
If we were like the "HOG Club" only MGNOC members would get to sit around the fire.
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Agreed. Long live the MGNOC! 8)
Hear, hear! ;-T ;-T ;-T
Bruce
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[If we were like the "HOG Club" only MGNOC members would get to sit around the fire.
And John, I want to thank you for all you do to keep the Minnesota MGNOC branch active and grooving along. It's a great group. I've never seen you turn anyone away for riding a different brand, either!
For the rest of you, not all of us are greyhaired cheapskates! OK, mebbee I'm getting old...
Doug
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As the MGNOC is discussed in this thread, I would like to put up a link for Cross-Tie Walkers thread about the video's from our National Rally last year in John Day. I feel he really got the flavor of what a Guzzi Rally is all about, and how much fun they are!!!
The Video links are in the first post of the thread.
Long live the MGNOC
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=37618.msg567711#msg567711
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I up to 4 after the Ignore Thread. ;D ;D ;D Picked up 2.
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I met Ron (VA Rep) at the movie theater in Lynchburg, VA back in 2000 and he told me about the Moto Guzzi Rally in Buena Vista, VA. Rode my Harley to the rally and eight years later, bought an 03 EV, sold my Harley, and have been going to the rallies ever since. Best decision I ever made. People are real down to earth and they don't pretend to be something they're not. Next motorcycle will be a Guzzi. About the membership: It is what it is! Pay your dues and drive on.
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Brotherhood
There have been a lot of good replies to the question about the MGNOC but this is the best. +100!
I joined the MGNOC some years ago and became a rep for the club a couple years later. I have met many, many wonderful people during this time. Not only in the USA, but internationally, also. I wrote a story about it and it was printed in the newsletter.
Recently, I resigned as the Arizona rep, not because there is anything wrong with the club or with Frank, but because of personal reasons. I totally expect to go to more rallies and meet some more of you, here, in person in the next few years. The commoradory(sp) is great!
I am also going to a Guzzi rally in Germany again, this August. It is just so cool to meet other Guzzisti. Instant brotherhood! It's wonderful. Just like meeting Iceblue a couple weeks ago. Great!
The MGNOC is a great resource and I hope it remains active for many years.
Tom
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wow, some of you guys are popular! I feel kind of small, as I only have one ignore. :'(
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I am also going to a Guzzi rally in Germany again, this August. It is just so cool to meet other Guzzisti. Instant brotherhood! It's wonderful. Just like meeting Iceblue a couple weeks ago. Great!
The MGNOC is a great resource and I hope it remains active for many years.
Tom
If you are talking about the Kupferpaste in Germany, I plan to be at that too.
I will be on a Guzzi Targa 750.
I used to be a member of the MGNOC European Section, it was a good club.
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I am also going to a Guzzi rally in Germany again, this August. It is just so cool to meet other Guzzisti. Instant brotherhood! It's wonderful. Just like meeting Iceblue a couple weeks ago. Great!
The MGNOC is a great resource and I hope it remains active for many years.
Tom
If you are talking about the Kupferpaste in Germany, I plan to be at that too.
I will be on a Guzzi Targa 750.
I used to be a member of the MGNOC European Section, it was a good club.
Yes! I will be there! Look for a tall guy wearing an authentic cowboy hat! I will be with my fiancee, who I met there in 2007.
Tom
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I've thought about joining a couple times but haven't. I'm probably wrong...but my perception is that most of the members are 50+ and own Cali or pre-Cali bikes. I like all bikes and love wandering around at open houses and multi-make meets looking at bikes and socializing but I'm not really interested in attending a single-make rally. I'm not sitting here saying to myself, "They should do something for me." I just don't see the benefit to joining at this time. I have an open mind about it and could change my opinion if I learned there was something that made it worth my $.
What bikes do you own now? It might help explain your post. Just wondering. I have never been to a multi-make meet. Thanks for being part of this forum.
Steve
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Yep........both Tex and I go way back,still have my copy of the first issue of MGNOC aka Moto Meatball.Have know Frank since 1971 and he really has given a lot to keeping Guzzi's alive and the riders connected.I remember the days when Frank,Mary Jo and little Debra assembled the NL by hand.
I remember being at a National or two when they were held at Sylan Grove and Frank would get a broke down call Sunday night and we'd head out to help.
As Tex says,you'll likely have very little trouble wheeling and dealing with a fellow MGNOC club member.I remember the day the Internet and WG when Guzzi information was harder to come by ol Frank would spend a lot of time answering people's questions.
Some of the most decent,honest and helpful people go to the Rallies.
Lets not forget those hard working State Reps who put the rally on.
MGNOC is like my grandparents,there was always one of them there to help if asked
Hey Gary,
I hope I get the opportunity to meet you one day.
Steve
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I bought my first Guzzi last year for $1,500. Rebuilt the carbs and that 96 Cali 1100 runs like a dream. I now own 6 of them. Never took the time to join MGNOC. Thousands of thousands of dollars in Guzzi's, but nothing for MGNOC? That is not right. Rectified as of today. Send Frank my dues for MGNOC, and George my check for the rally, next is a check to Luap. If you really want to know a man's values, look into his check book. His money goes to what he values.
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I bought my first Guzzi last year for $1,500. Rebuilt the carbs and that 96 Cali 1100 runs like a dream. I now own 6 of them. Never took the time to join MGNOC. Thousands of thousands of dollars in Guzzi's, but nothing for MGNOC? That is not right. Rectified as of today. Send Frank my dues for MGNOC, and George my check for the rally, next is a check to Luap. If you really want to know a man's values, look into his check book. His money goes to what he values.
;-T
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I bought my first Guzzi last year for $1,500. Rebuilt the carbs and that 96 Cali 1100 runs like a dream. I now own 6 of them. Never took the time to join MGNOC. Thousands of thousands of dollars in Guzzi's, but nothing for MGNOC? That is not right. Rectified as of today. Send Frank my dues for MGNOC, and George my check for the rally, next is a check to Luap. If you really want to know a man's values, look into his check book. His money goes to what he values.
;-T
;-T ;-T ;D
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I bought my first Guzzi last year for $1,500. Rebuilt the carbs and that 96 Cali 1100 runs like a dream. I now own 6 of them. Never took the time to join MGNOC. Thousands of thousands of dollars in Guzzi's, but nothing for MGNOC? That is not right. Rectified as of today. Send Frank my dues for MGNOC, and George my check for the rally, next is a check to Luap. If you really want to know a man's values, look into his check book. His money goes to what he values.
;-T
Thank you very Much Dan...I am sure your support of the MGNOC will be greatly appreciated. This is Our Club Dan...I feel we need to support it....I appreciate your efforts in doing so and am happy this club means something to you. I have always been thankful to Frank for keeping this club going for us. Any one that doesn't agree needs to ask theirself why they chose Moto Guzzi in the first place. Maybe they should switch brands and be done with ours. I don't know.
Steve
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Any one that doesn't agree needs to ask theirself why they chose Moto Guzzi in the first place. Maybe they should switch brands and be done with ours. I don't know.
Steve
You are a little harsh. I'm a lifetime member of the MGNOC, but I sure didn't buy a Guzzi because of the MGNOC. Why did I get a Guzzi in the first place? I don't really have a good (logical) answer to that, but I do know that I like them for whatever reason. Uniqueness (is that a word?) probably has a lot to do with it. It surely has nothing to do with dealer accessibility or the wonderful Japanese-like reliability. It has definitely helped to have the helpful, close knit community the has resulted because of the MGNOC. I fully support Frank's efforts and have enjoyed attending several rallies when my life has allowed me the opportunity to do so, but not everyone will be interested in participating, and that should be OK too.
I don't know if the chicken came before the egg or not, but I know that I chose the bike without ever having heard of the MGNOC. I will say, without a group like the MGNOC, I probably would not have bought a second or third Moto Guzzi. Seems to me, suggesting that someone switch brands because they may not support the MGNOC seems to be a little excessive.
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I bought my first Guzzi last year for $1,500. Rebuilt the carbs and that 96 Cali 1100 runs like a dream. I now own 6 of them. Never took the time to join MGNOC. Thousands of thousands of dollars in Guzzi's, but nothing for MGNOC? That is not right. Rectified as of today. Send Frank my dues for MGNOC, and George my check for the rally, next is a check to Luap. If you really want to know a man's values, look into his check book. His money goes to what he values.
;-T
Thank you very Much Dan...I am sure your support of the MGNOC will be greatly appreciated. This is Our Club Dan...I feel we need to support it....I appreciate your efforts in doing so and am happy this club means something to you. I have always been thankful to Frank for keeping this club going for us. Any one that doesn't agree needs to ask theirself why they chose Moto Guzzi in the first place. Maybe they should switch brands and be done with ours. I don't know.
Steve
Did you mean Dan or Stormtruck2? ;) I just joined, but the quote boxes can be confusing who said what. :D And I'm usually already confused as it is. And it is I who says thank you very much to the MGNOC and Wildguzzi members. They all have given me more than I will ever be able to give back. ;-T
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Any one that doesn't agree needs to ask theirself why they chose Moto Guzzi in the first place. Maybe they should switch brands and be done with ours. I don't know.
Steve
You are a little harsh. I'm a lifetime member of the MGNOC, but I sure didn't buy a Guzzi because of the MGNOC. Why did I get a Guzzi in the first place? I don't really have a good (logical) answer to that, but I do know that I like them for whatever reason. Uniqueness (is that a word?) probably has a lot to do with it. It surely has nothing to do with dealer accessibility or the wonderful Japanese-like reliability. It has definitely helped to have the helpful, close knit community the has resulted because of the MGNOC. I fully support Frank's efforts and have enjoyed attending several rallies when my life has allowed me the opportunity to do so, but not everyone will be interested in participating, and that should be OK too.
I don't know if the chicken came before the egg or not, but I know that I chose the bike without ever having heard of the MGNOC. I will say, without a group like the MGNOC, I probably would not have bought a second or third Moto Guzzi. Seems to me, suggesting that someone switch brands because they may not support the MGNOC seems to be a little excessive.
You are right, I re-read it and it does sound harsh. My thoughts were on people complaining about the way things are now or have been in the past. I was thinking that if someone disliked the club or Frank that much, they might as well get a different brand and move on...Many of the guzzi riders have different brands in their stock of bikes. Thanks...Sorry for the harsh post.
Steve
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At the risk of upsetting some and outright making other mad I want to ask this question.
It appears as though the membership of the group is growing smaller and less active. What can be done to stimulate the group? Being a member is fine but it seems as if only a very small group is active. I am not holding myself up as the poster boy of activity, due to other commitments, I have not been able to go and do. Things change. I now have more time and will be willing to get more involved, how? Don't tell me to rejoin the MGNOC, to me that $30.00 a year lost.
Let's suggest ways and make plans to improve the club and awareness of the brand.
I think this forum is a great starting place for voices to come forth and offer input. I am not looking for a slugfest, rather I am looking for constructive input.
If I am out of line say so and I will retract my question, no fault, no foul.
Thanks
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:pop This should get some interesting comments. My first thought would be the fact that we're not getting any younger. But there are many other factors.
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Everyone is very old
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I see Arkansas does not have a state MGNOC Rep. You can start by stepping up to fill that void and get others involved?
In my experience, most would rather just "show up" for rallies, breakfasts, etc. And not bother with any of the planning, time and expense involved. Participating in these things and meeting the people is one of the best parts of owning and riding a Guzzi.
Also helps to spead the good Guzzi word to anyone who will listen.
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Everyone is very old
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well............... .not YOU!\
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I see Arkansas does not have a state MGNOC Rep. You can start by stepping up to fill that void and get others involved?
In my experience, most would rather just "show up" for rallies, breakfasts, etc. And not bother with any of the planning, time and expense involved. Participating in these things and meeting the people is one of the best parts of owning and riding a Guzzi.
Also helps to spead the good Guzzi word to anyone who will listen.
State reps have gone to the wayside here in the middle of the country. A thing of the past. We have gone mostly to "campouts" where no one really makes a big investment prior to an event, just ride in and have a good visit. No rally pins, long distance award, catered dinners, just good fellowship, tire kicking and tellin' lies. Like Cedar Vale, Ks. and the Oklahoma campout, two of my favorites.
I'd like to have a Missouri campout in the spring. I can put you guys right in the middle of some really good Ozarks roads.
Anyone interested?
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When it comes to activities, MGNOC is the glue that hold us all together. Wild Guzzi is, IMO, in direct completion to the OC and it's free. Why get off $30 per year when just about all the rally events are posted here. Also most rally photos are also posted here. I have never sent a photo or a write up about an event to the MGNOC but I always post here. I'm quite happy with the club however, other than the Rally Calendar, I seldom read the new letter.
My recommendation is to combine WG and MGNOC and make WG a members only forum. In other words, f%%k the free loaders. ::( :BEER:
Matt
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Since you have no desire to join the MGNOC, Cam's suggestion, at least in part becomes null. In any case, the "club" of which you make reference IS the MGNOC. Otherwise, we are a group of Mot Guzzi enthusiasts. I don't have any desire to debate the merits of the "club", but the requisite of being a rep is pretty simple. 1.Promote Moto Guzzi. 2. Own and ride a Moto Guzzi. 3. Get around and promote the club.
What Cam said is correct though. Like any organization, very few people put in the work for the many. Often times, the complainers are some of those many that I refer to. In reality nobody has to be a member of the MGNOC but you cannot deny its contribution to Moto Guzzi over the years. Please note I said some. There are many who show up someplace and do help in some way. Unload wood, help cook, sell tickets, etc., so please don't think I am pointing a finger at you. I an simply generalizing.
So I would say, come to the rallies. Support Moto Guzzi. Bring young people into the group, regardless of what they ride. Even if they are younger relatives or friends that don't even ride. Promote Moto Guzzi when the opportunity presents itself.
Overall, the best bunch of people I have ever had an opportunity to be associated with.
John Henry
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Just my opinion, but why exclude anyone? Part of the problem here low numbers. Like Dusty said, invite more people, especially more YOUNG people, show them how to have a good time w/o video games, text messaging, and all that other new fangled shit, thank them for coming and invite them to the next one. Maybe they'll go away thinking "hey those old farts were pretty cool" and tell thier friends.
I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.
Groucho Marx.
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My recommendation is to combine WG and MGNOC and make WG a members only forum.
I could get behind that provided all revenue's are posted as is done on this forum, with simple financial goals and a fair distribution of funds to state organizations for events with a larger proportion held aside for the yearly National. Sign me up.
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Ah, one of the perennial winter threads. ;D
I don't think the OP's points are necessarily invalid, and, if nothing else, appreciate the nudge to renew as my membership lapses this month and Frank's reminder has slipped well below my screen.
I do enjoy the newsletter as several contributors there are darn fine writers.
As for limiting access here to members, seems that would be self-defeating if our goal is continued viability of the brand and, gasp, even growth. We are a small subculture and, judging from the intro thread, a number have made the leap based on what they found here. OTOH, come to think of it, who knows what number have bought something else based on our internal self-flagellation and own-brand-bashing, even if candid and ""out of love." ::)
As others have said, MG (and we) need to attract and keep young people ... or fade away as are our red suspenders. ;)
Anyway, $30 is several beers, but I'll keep paying it.
Bill
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At the risk of upsetting some and outright making other mad I want to ask this question.
It appears as though the membership of the group is growing smaller and less active. What can be done to stimulate the group? Being a member is fine but it seems as if only a very small group is active. I am not holding myself up as the poster boy of activity, due to other commitments, I have not been able to go and do. Things change. I now have more time and will be willing to get more involved, how? Don't tell me to rejoin the MGNOC, to me that $30.00 a year lost.
Let's suggest ways and make plans to improve the club and awareness of the brand.
I think this forum is a great starting place for voices to come forth and offer input. I am not looking for a slugfest, rather I am looking for constructive input.
If I am out of line say so and I will retract my question, no fault, no foul.
Thanks
If by "Group", you mean "Moto Guzzi National Owners Club", or "MGNOC", then you will need to speak with Frank Wedge.
MGNOC is a company owned by Frank. There is no board and no officers. It's his private deal. Any changes there would need to be addressed to Frank.
Wild Guzzi is not associated with MGNOC other than some of the leadership here are also "members" of MGNOC. And some of the members here also happen to be "members" of MGNOC.
Wild Guzzi continues to grow and we are glad to see new members signing up here every day. The information, stories, and reports freely shared by all are invaluable to the Moto Guzzi community. We are glad and thankful that this is the most active Moto Guzzi community on the web.
We hope it continues to be such.
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In other words, f%%k the free loaders. ::( :BEER:
Matt
Some of the f%%king freeloaders are people like me, who try to offer good technical advice and commentary, so we contribute in a non-monetary way.
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My recommendation is to combine WG and MGNOC and make WG a members only forum. In other words, f%%k the free loaders. ::( :BEER:
Matt
MGNOC already has its own website with private, members only, area that could easily be expanded to include a discussion forum.
You may think of taking that topic up with Frank Wedge.
I think you will find Wild Guzzi growing and flourishing and free and open, to anyone interesting in Guzzis, for years to come.
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I do occasionally look at the MGNOC web site. In the Articles section, none of the articles have dates (which I think they should), but from the few that reveal their approximate dates, they seem outdated and stale. If the site had, for example, some technical articles on the upcoming V7 II series, or on troubleshooting recent MG models, I would consider joining.
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I love going to rallies and camp outs, but as most know those that show up are getting more gray each year, and not enough young folks are showing up to keep the numbers up. If this doesn't change, I don't think their will be many conventional Guzzi rallies left in the US.
I think we need to ask ourselves, why don't more young people show up?
My take is that young folks have far more options today, as far as how to spend their leisure time, then we did at their age. Ridding to a semi far away destination to camp in the woods with a bunch of fat, gray haired dudes on weird old bikes and sit around a camp fire and drink beer, may only appeal to a relatively small group of the young. Most rallies don't have live music, and if they do it's usually, country or blue grass, and its over by 9:30.
Walk out of your tent at midnight Friday at any Guzzi rally, what will you hear? Crickets, and sounds of snoring! There may be a couple fires with a few folks still up having too much fun to go to bed ( Im almost always in one of them) but 90% of the rally is asleep!
I love rallies and campouts, but if the format doesn't change a bit, or young people have some sort of epiphany that they do like to hang out in the woods, the future for conventional rallies looks bleak.
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Those here that find fault with the MGNOC don't realize that if it wasn't for this Guzzi club Moto Guzzi probably wouldn't still be in business here. Before the internet all Guzzistis would be loners with no one to communicate with about their bike. There would have never been Guzzi state or National rallies to mingle with like riders and share information. MGNOC has been in business since 1970.
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If by "Group", you mean "Moto Guzzi National Owners Club", or "MGNOC", then you will need to speak with Frank Wedge.
MGNOC is a company owned by Frank. There is no board and no officers. It's his private deal. Any changes there would need to be addressed to Frank.
Wild Guzzi is not associated with MGNOC other than some of the leadership here are also "members" of MGNOC. And some of the members here also happen to be "members" of MGNOC.
Wild Guzzi continues to grow and we are glad to see new members signing up here every day. The information, stories, and reports freely shared by all are invaluable to the Moto Guzzi community. We are glad and thankful that this is the most active Moto Guzzi community on the web.
We hope it continues to be such.
:+1
Dean
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I love going to rallies and camp outs, but as most know those that show up are getting more gray each year, and not enough young folks are showing up to keep the numbers up. If this doesn't change, I don't think their will be many conventional Guzzi rallies left in the US.
I think we need to ask ourselves, why don't more young people show up?
My take is that young folks have far more options today, as far as how to spend their leisure time, then we did at their age. Ridding to a semi far away destination to camp in the woods with a bunch of fat, gray haired dudes on weird old bikes and sit around a camp fire and drink beer, may only appeal to a relatively small group of the young. Most rallies don't have live music, and if they do it's usually, country or blue grass, and its over by 9:30.
Walk out of your tent at midnight Friday at any Guzzi rally, what will you hear? Crickets, and sounds of snoring! There may be a couple fires with a few folks still up having too much fun to go to bed ( Im almost always in one of them) but 90% of the rally is asleep!
I love rallies and campouts, but if the format doesn't change a bit, or young people have some sort of epiphany that they do like to hang out in the woods, the future for conventional rallies looks bleak.
I think you need to attend MO-KAN. (not an MGNOC event).
http://www.mo-kanguzziclub.com/
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I live in Indiana, yet life close to Kentucky. The Kentucky rep lives a few miles from me, the Indiana rep over 100 miles. Here in my area, a group meets each Wednesday, rain or shine, that has nothing to do with the brand. The Group, Louisville Vintage Motor Group. A unorganized group of motorcycle riders of all types and brands. Since its inception a few years ago, I was the only one riding a Moto Guzzi. Since that time, the brand has become more prevalent. Their are old and new Moto Guzzi bikes. I encourage all Moto Guzzi owners to join MGNOC. Curt and his wife have a new V7 and a recently purchased older touring rig. We had the Kentucky Kickdown in August with a dealer from Illinois bringing in some bikes. Nobody from MGNOC showed up. I would suggest that with each new bike sold, a free 1 year membership to MGNOC. The VJMC was at the Kickdown bike show and many other events I have attended this past year. MGNOC can do the same. If I attend an event, I make an effort to ride my Moto Guzzi and wear my shirt, over my other Buell or two vintage Kawasaki's I currently own. I am a proud owner of a Moto Guzzi. I know there are many other web sites that discuss Moto Guzzi bikes and have seen some of the same posters here on WildGuzzi post on them. I have seen Posters on other sites that do not post here. WildGuzzi seems to be the main site, thanks Laup, but not the only site. I do not see combining the two as a solution to MGNOC growth. Preaching to the choir will not grow the group. The VJMC have the right plan of action and the numbers to prove it. A public presents at as many events as possible. Without having a big ego about it, I believe I have had a big influence on the brand here in the Louisville area. Because of my presents at many events.
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I'm not sure I understand what the poster means by active. Some years back we attempted to get a rally going here is South Carolina. Organizing the rally was the easy part. Finding a date that didn't interfere with other MGNOC Rallies was the hard part. I settled on the first weekend in November. A date during the normal riding season, what ever that is, was impossible. I gave up after the second rally. :(
I agree with the age thing and being 75 I sure as hell don't have any answers. I enjoy the campground being quit by midnight. ;-T But many years ago, a long-long time ago the red suspenders crowd found my friends and me a little loud and maybe we were just a little to drunk to care. ::(
Some of the f%%king freeloaders are people like me, who try to offer good technical advice and commentary, so we contribute in a non-monetary way.
::) We all know the value of free advice. ;D Just look at Fox News or MSNBC. :wife:
:BEER:
Matt
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if it wasn't for this Guzzi club Moto Guzzi probably wouldn't still be in business here. Before the internet all Guzzistis would be loners with no one to communicate with about their bike.
Yup, that is why there are so many Guzzi barn finds and not HD barn finds.
I was a Guzzi club rep for 10(?) years. hence the azguzzirep name. It helped me with my first Guzzi immensely, putting me in contact with other Guzzi owners and also the monthly Guzzi breakfast.
But this forum is also very good, as it is much wider in scope and deeper in depth than mgnoc. I hope this site and the people here remain for a good long time.
Tom
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Those here that find fault with the MGNOC don't realize that if it wasn't for this Guzzi club Moto Guzzi probably wouldn't still be in business here. Before the internet all Guzzistis would be loners with no one to communicate with about their bike. There would have never been Guzzi state or National rallies to mingle with like riders and share information. MGNOC has been in business since 1970.
You may very well be right Wayne. What I am trying to say is that MGNOC has not changed much at all since 1970! What worked great in the first 30 years of MGNOC, are not necessarily relevant to the state of things today. Its darn near a 50 year old business model that I think would benefit from some major updating.
Sounds like a need to get to a MO-Kan!
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Ah, the annual MGNOC assault on WG. It must be winter. **C Those of you suggesting non MGNOC members are not welcome on WG might have it backwards. You boys have a website already. If you don't like the sense of community on YOUR club forum, maybe that's where you need to start changing things. Maybe bring it up at your next meeting or start a topic over there. ;)
My main motivation for participating in WG is to pass on what I know about the bikes before I can't anymore. I think I give more than I take. If none of my contributions count and I'm branded a "FREELOADER" on Wild Guzzi unless I also pay into Frank Wedge's personal retirement account I'm outta here.
My main motivation for not participating in the MGNOC is that Frank's private enterprise is his business -- literally. His MGNOC is a club in the same way a strip joint is a "gentleman's club," except that the gentleman's club is more accessible and has more attractions. I object to the way the 'club' is run, and I disagree with the personality cult that says "Without Frank there would be no Guzzi's in the USA." I began my relationship with the marquee in the early '70s. I never heard of Frank Wedge or the MGNOC until I was a half-dozen Guzzis into it. I doubt that either Frank or I have suffered for it, and I doubt anyone else would, either.
I've got no problem with Frank's choir preaching his gospel to his faithful at his events. You folks feel free to sing out at your club meetings. WG is not part of that. Please leave your jihad at the door. Perhaps try a takeover of the BMWMOA -- you've got the same relevance there.
. . . and yes, if a person thinks Guzzi rallys/events are old, stale, and boring, MOKAN will wake you up. Except for the professional live band playing nightly, the skookum bbq trailer loaded with a few pigs and a half-dozen turkeys cooking, and the semi trailer-sized booze wagon, it's very much like an old-school biker get together. I recommend it. ;-T
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You may very well be right Wayne. What I am trying to say is that MGNOC has not changed much at all since 1970! What worked great in the first 30 years of MGNOC, are not necessarily relevant to the state of things today. Its darn near a 50 year old business model that I think would benefit from some major updating.
Sounds like a need to get to a MO-Kan!
Although Mo-Kan is a pretty dull area to ride in, if you're into rock and roll bands and howling at the moon, it's the rally to go to. Those St. Joe boys know how to P-A-R-T-Y! For 3 or 4 years I was regular at the St. Joe Ace Cafe (Ace Mallot that is) those boys know how to have some fun.
Personally, I like a rally where the local area is fun to ride in. Like David and Colleen's rally near Hot Springs. The 300 some odd miles to get there for me was an EXCELLENT ride. I don't need another excuse to get hammered, I can do that on my own.
Different strokes 'ya know!
JS
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I don't go to MoKAN much because it's a 700 mile road straight as an arrow to get there.. by the time I get back my back tire is always squared off.
Join us at the MN rally, new date/new place, God's country- camp on the shore of Lake Superior! bring warm clothes..
MGNOC has not adapted to the new millenium..
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Portland Moto Guzzi threw a customer appreciation party last night and the breakdown in new owners was a 2/3rds majority of thirty something's. With 3/4s buying new V7's, 1 Griso and one Stelvio were represented. A few older customers were also on hand (someone had to tell stories). Gerri, the head of the Oregon Owners club also came and welcomed everyone into the fold. The Northwest regional rep for Piaggio even attended so we got to grill him with questions, nice fella Josh. And thanks to Rick and Anne for hosting. A good time was had by all. Good community here with lots of combined support from the Washington group.
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Could be David-could be. I was a Moto Guzzi dealer back in the eighties and didn't know the MGNOC existed. I had no trouble selling Guzzies. When I purchased back my LeMans, 2002 or maybe it was 2003, there was a MGNOC sticker under the seat. Hmmmm what's this? Found the webpage and been a member every since.
Regarding you comment "MGNOC is that Frank's private enterprise is his business -- literally". Do you think these guys, who ever they may be, are running this web site for free?
I pay the dues to MGNOC and I contribute to Wild Guzzi and I receive value from both.
To repeat, MGNOC is the glue that hold us all together. :BEER:
Matt
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Actually Matt , the Admins and Mods here are doing this for free .
Dusty
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Join us at the MN rally, new date/new place, God's country- camp on the shore of Lake Superior! bring warm clothes..
That's what I liked about David Welch's rally, my chicken strips were skinny skinny ;D ;-T
MGNOC has not adapted to the new millenium..
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I love going to rallies and camp outs, but as most know those that show up are getting more gray each year, and not enough young folks are showing up to keep the numbers up. If this doesn't change, I don't think their will be many conventional Guzzi rallies left in the US.
I think we need to ask ourselves, why don't more young people show up?
My take is that young folks have far more options today, as far as how to spend their leisure time, then we did at their age. Ridding to a semi far away destination to camp in the woods with a bunch of fat, gray haired dudes on weird old bikes and sit around a camp fire and drink beer, may only appeal to a relatively small group of the young. Most rallies don't have live music, and if they do it's usually, country or blue grass, and its over by 9:30.
Walk out of your tent at midnight Friday at any Guzzi rally, what will you hear? Crickets, and sounds of snoring! There may be a couple fires with a few folks still up having too much fun to go to bed ( Im almost always in one of them) but 90% of the rally is asleep!
I love rallies and campouts, but if the format doesn't change a bit, or young people have some sort of epiphany that they do like to hang out in the woods, the future for conventional rallies looks bleak.
So what would you suggest that the rally organizers add to the rally in order to attract more Young People? Right now, we have places to camp or lodge, we have campfires, food, places to hang out, guided or unguided rides during the day, door prizes, and awards, or some subset thereof.
What needs to be added by the organizers to make sure that the rally isn't just old farts snoring away by midnight?
Lannis
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What needs to be added by the organizers to make sure that the rally isn't just old farts snoring away by midnight?
Lannis
Maybe lap dancing?
Dean
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Maybe lap dancing?
Dean
Gonna take some long legged limber dancers to accomplish that ;D
Dusty
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Maybe lap dancing?
Dean
Maybe a new club called, Young Midnight Guzzi Riders since there are some here that thing that being in bed before midnight is for sissy's. YMGRC
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You want to bring younger riders into Moto Guzzi.
Simple but you'll have to do what I do with another club (rifles, shotguns, handguns) and teach the young, supply the equipment and take the younger riders for safe afternoon rides.
I did it with my children, nieces, nephews and and their friends with firearms.
So if you want younger riders start buying V7's or 750 Breva's and help them learn to ride properly.
That's how you'll bring the next generation in.
I hope to build a little V7 Scrambler "trainer"
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Matt, I really don't care what Frank is doing as long as it's not forced on me. I stay out of these discussions until 1) I'm told that I owe him (I don't), or 2) it's suggested that I am required to pay Frank in order to participate in an independent group (I won't). If Frank has any interest in WG he'd be an active member here. If the glue was working, there would be folks waiting in line to step up when a state rep retires/quits. As it is, there are a number of states with no reps and reps poised to retire soon that don't see a successor in sight. At least in the PNW, the Piaggio rep is more active than Frank is. If folks were really interested in expanding the Guzzi community they wouldn't be restricting access to it by requiring payments to an unrelated business and branding its members as freeloaders if they don't. They'd be embracing new riders and encouraging their free participation.
All strictly my opinion, of course. :)
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Maybe lap dancing?
Dean
You volunteering? You can give someone else my turn ..... :o
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Gonna take some long legged limber dancers to accomplish that ;D
Dusty
Maybe lap dancing?
Dean
You know,motorcycling IS mostly a daytime sport.
Adding a little "night time" sport might just liven things up a little.
I wonder if we can find some lap dancers for Oh.......$10.00 to $20.00 a night? You know us old pharts are cheap old pharts.Maybe hire some gals from the closest nursing home............... ......Brown chicken brown cow ;D
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Join us at the MN rally, new date/new place, God's country- camp on the shore of Lake Superior! bring warm clothes....
I'm interested. What is the new date and the new location? Thanks.
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If the glue was working, there would be folks waiting in line to step up when a state rep retires/quits. As it is, there are a number of states with no reps and reps poised to retire soon that don't see a successor in sight.
Why would anyone sign up to be a state rep? So they can be accused of being part of a private moneymaking scheme, getting beat up because they're running a rally that conflicts with another rally 1500 miles away, and being told it's just for old farts anyway because there's no titty shows, burnout pits, or chugging contests?
Bugger that. Thank God that some people step up and do it. And I appreciate it enough to have signed up to be a life MGNOC member and to contribute a little $$ here at WG when I can .... if I'm not going to get out there and do the work, it's the least I can do. Or I guess I could just piss and moan about it, but others have got that covered.
Lannis
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To repeat, MGNOC is the glue that hold us all together. :BEER:
Matt
Personally I think it our love of the marque that holds us together
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Why would anyone sign up to be a state rep? So they can be accused of being part of a private moneymaking scheme, getting beat up because they're running a rally that conflicts with another rally 1500 miles away, and being told it's just for old farts anyway because there's no titty shows, burnout pits, or chugging contests?
Bugger that. Thank God that some people step up and do it. And I appreciate it enough to have signed up to be a life MGNOC member and to contribute a little $$ here at WG when I can .... if I'm not going to get out there and do the work, it's the least I can do. Or I guess I could just piss and moan about it, but others have got that covered.
Lannis
I'll take that as agreement.
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I'd like to have a Missouri campout in the spring. I can put you guys right in the middle of some really good Ozarks roads.
Anyone interested?
Yes
I guess Luap's rally is a thing of the past :'(. I think Dusty has hit the nail on the head. The next incarnation of Guzzi events will be NARs. The Oklahoma Campout year before last, and Sickbay's Arkansas NAR were excellent. I don't know how much planning went on behind the scenes, but all the bases were covered. Everyone seemed to pitch in and things got done.
We need to get the word out to the new riders. There are a lot new guys on the V7s and some have been showing up at recent rallys. I know Beaver and Sickbay987 both kept sign in sheets. Maybe we could use these to reach out and offer personal invite to some of the events.
Not everyone knows of this forum. How about posting the Web address at the dealerships?
Next time you plan to attend a rally bring a buddy Guzzisti or otherwise.
Dave
Galveston
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I've normally supported the marque club for each bike I was riding -- MGNOC when I rode Beemers, Concours Owners Group when I had a C-14, etc. I am now a member of MGNOC because I own/ride a Guzzi. I also contribute annually to WG. However, the only time I go into the MGNOC Newsletter is to find out about the upcoming rally schedule, I find the articles and advertisements of little interest.
A question -- has there ever been consideration given to a designated section for a schedule of upcoming rallies, NAR's, campouts, etc on the WG website? I realize there is normally some advance discussion about these events on the website and, as they get closer, they're elevated to the "sticky" category at the top of the page but I'm thinking further out than that so advance planning would be easier.
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Yes
I guess Luap's rally is a thing of the past :'(. I think Dusty has hit the nail on the head. The next incarnation of Guzzi events will be NARs. The Oklahoma Campout year before last, and Sickbay's Arkansas NAR were excellent. I don't know how much planning went on behind the scenes, but all the bases were covered. Everyone seemed to pitch in and things got done.
We need to get the word out to the new riders. There are a lot new guys on the V7s and some have been showing up at recent rallys. I know Beaver and Sickbay987 both kept sign in sheets. Maybe we could use these to reach out and offer personal invite to some of the events.
Not everyone knows of this forum. How about posting the Web address at the dealerships?
Next time you plan to attend a rally bring a buddy Guzzisti or otherwise.
Dave
Galveston
Dave,
GREAT! Luap's deal at Anderson was great, but this will put us closer to more twistys. I like that and I think others are too. More info as the days get longer again! Be glad to have you there!
John in Mo.
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A question -- has there ever been consideration given to a designated section for a schedule of upcoming rallies on the WG website? I realize there is normally some advance discussion about these events on the website and, as they get closer, they're elevated to the "sticky" category at the top of the page but I'm thinking further out than that so advance planning would be easier.
It all originates here http://www.mgnoc.com/rally_calendar.html anyway, why the duplication?
It appears as though the membership of the group is growing smaller and less active.
What group are you referring to? Most rallygoers I speak to don't post here, yet are MGNOC members, and judging by some of the posts above, most posters here are not MGNOC members
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It all originates here http://www.mgnoc.com/rally_calendar.html anyway, why the duplication?
What group are you referring to? Most rallygoers I speak to don't post here, yet are MGNOC members, and judging by some of the posts above, most posters here are not MGNOC members
Nick , that list doesn't cover the NARs . The Okie camp out , Cedar vale ,the Arkansas camp out , none of those will make that list .
Dusty
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Nick , that list doesn't cover the NARs . The Okie camp out , Cedar vale ,the Arkansas camp out , none of those will make that list .
Dusty
Good point on NARs and some camp outs, edited my post
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I'm interested. What is the new date and the new location? Thanks.
Grand Marais in 2015!
We
’
re going to
head north
to the other end of the state
for the R
ally
.
We are looking at
June
26
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28
.
Save the dates and more
information
to follow.
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+1 to Grand Marais. Beautiful place. Decent roads, spectacular views. Duluth is worth a visit too.
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OK, I give up. What is a NAR? :BEER:
Matt
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.... What is a NAR? Matt
Matt, I think it stands for "Not A Rally". Just show up at the designated place at the correct time and there might be others there also. No food, no events, etc. You're responsible for everything at that event. I think Rocker 59 coined the expression for the gathering in SW CO last year.
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Why would anyone sign up to be a state rep? So they can be accused of being part of a private moneymaking scheme, getting beat up because they're running a rally that conflicts with another rally 1500 miles away, and being told it's just for old farts anyway because there's no titty shows, burnout pits, or chugging contests?
Bugger that. Thank God that some people step up and do it. And I appreciate it enough to have signed up to be a life MGNOC member and to contribute a little $$ here at WG when I can .... if I'm not going to get out there and do the work, it's the least I can do. Or I guess I could just piss and moan about it, but others have got that covered.
I 'signed up' as a state rep one month when I didn't make it to a monthly gathering. They voted me in since I wasn't there it say no. ~;
Then there is this:
I am not holding myself up as the poster boy of activity, due to other commitments, I have not been able to go and do.
Pretty much where everybody is.
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OK, I give up. What is a NAR? :BEER:
Matt
"Not A Rally".
Kind of a hippified version of a rally. Everyone just shows up, contributes something (food, firewood, music, booze, etc.), or doesn't. It costs as little or as much as each person is willing/able to contribute, it's not structured, and is usually a damned good time.
No one is in charge, but everything seems to get done, and everyone leaves happy.
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Hippified------Far out man! I dig it! NAR's are great! no one has to work like a dog or worry about how many show. Just have a good time.
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Hippified------Far out man! I dig it! NAR's are great! no one has to work like a dog or worry about how many show. Just have a good time.
Yeah, man. Thanks for the groovy tunes at Cedar Vale. Nice acoustics in that old barn! :BEER:
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Not A Rally.
Might mean not MGNOC affiliated.
Just show up. Camp out. Ride. No prizes. No awards.
Dave
Galveston
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Wow, I was beginning to thing I was the only one making comments that pissed others off on this forum. I feeling better already.
The Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Club does not share their magazine and web site with non members. Pay to play, nothing wrong with that rule. I say if you don't have a dog in this fight, it should not matter what Frank or the State Reps do.
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Yeah, man. Thanks for the groovy tunes at Cedar Vale. Nice acoustics in that old barn! :BEER:
You know that little box does do a good job in that barn. I had a chance to pass through CV for work on the way to Winfield in the summer, I stopped in and listened to some Diana Krall ..........Swonderfu l.......Smarvelous. .....that you should care for me :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
She is hotter than donut greece!!!!
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Uh , well not quite true . We feed everyone that shows up at Cedar Vale and now the Okie camp out , and David made sure no one went hungry in Arkansas . Yeah , no organized events , unless you consider some good rides and a visit to a museum . Really , they work pretty much like a REAL rally .
Dusty
The only diff. is you take up a collection THEN go to the grocery store, nobody's out a bunch of $$$$$
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Matt, I think it stands for "Not A Rally". Just show up at the designated place at the correct time and there might be others there also. No food, no events, etc. You're responsible for everything at that event. I think Rocker 59 coined the expression for the gathering in SW CO last year.
Sometimes there is food, Cedar Vale I know had great food last year. The event was going to the clown museum in town, riding a bit, and shooting a whole herd of bull. ;) There is no registration fee, and contributions were not even requested last year at CV, but some of us voluntarily threw in some cash to offset food cost.
Getting the younger ones into Guzzi is a nice idea, but several things work against us. The general lack of visibility of the Guzzi marque, the lack of dealers, and the relative numbers of used Guzzis available. When you walk into the average dealer, how many have a used Guzzi on the floor? Most youngsters first bikes are used and there are how many hundreds of Jap bikes available per each used Guzzi?? Earlier someone made the suggestion of recruiting riders, training them to ride, and providing the bike to learn on and ride. I do this, but my training bike is 80 CB 650. I would like to get a Guzzi training bike, but what model should I buy to use? A new V7 is too expensive to use as a trainer, and an early V7 is too valuable. I paid $900 for my CB 650 years ago, and the parts are cheap to repair what they break. The limited number of suitable used bikes to be used as trainers is the same problem new riders face when wanting to buy a Guzzi.
Most young people today also worry about image, so it is Harley or UJM so they "fit" the image of a "biker" they think they should. Few if any Guzzi riders are image conscience. As the youngsters of today mature, the image concern recedes, and after a few years of riding, they have run across a Guzzi, and now it pops on their radar when they are thinking of buying a new bike. They now have the time, money, and desire to buy a new bike. Question is, where is the nearest dealer? In Iowa, it is 5 hours to Woodstock or Omaha, 6 hours to Lakeville MN, or 7 hours to Robinson IL. When I buy my new bike I am going to C&D in Robinson IL, buy I already know the other dealers. If I was looking to buy a new bike and wanted a Guzzi, and never had owned one before, I doubt that I would drive that many hours to try a bike I might not like.
Guzzi is a mature persons bike, a thinking mans bike. It's the bike for people who are after more than just an image, but who do recognize the intangibles that Guzzi brings to the ride.
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When Todd Egan quit being the So Cal rep, to start Todd Egan incorporated, life went on just fine. Folks hook up for NAR's, people ride together, and life goes on with Guzzi's I did really enjoy the national at Malibu, 250 snoring guzzi fat guys at 1:00 vibrated my fillings loose when they hit a harmonic.... Great time though and got to spend time with the Seattle folks
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Just so everyone knows , 'Truck and his lovely wife Lorraine did more than their share to make CV work this year . Talk about NAR spirit , dude , they bring it ;-T These NARs are easy when you have so much cooperation and a couple or three secret weapons .
Dusty
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Just so everyone knows , 'Truck and his lovely wife Lorraine did more than their share to make CV work this year . Talk about NAR spirit , dude , they bring it ;-T These NARs are easy when you have so much cooperation and a couple or three secret weapons .
Dusty
No kidding Dusty, Loraine's deli tray was Da Bomb. And who ever thought you would see a scotch buffett on the Kansas prairie? Matt and Chester would have tied up thier horses for awhile and made camp!
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Matt, I think it stands for "Not A Rally". Just show up at the designated place at the correct time and there might be others there also. No food, no events, etc. You're responsible for everything at that event. I think Rocker 59 coined the expression for the gathering in SW CO last year.
I didn't coin it. The term showed up first out West a few years ago, as far as I recall. Some NARs in Arizona and California.
The idea works pretty good, though. For the "Wild Guzzi Western Adventure Not A Rally" last year in Ouray Colorado, all I did was call and negotiate a discounted rate at the KOA. They have a restaurant on site, so no planning needed there. One "planned ride" was on Sunday to Gateway. About six bikes went along, I think. Some peopled stayed in hotels in town. There were things to see in nearby towns, so everyone just kind of did thier own thing. We did have a get together at the restaurant on Saturday Night where I gave away Italian pilots wings to long distance rider, oldest bike, and newest rider. Sunday Night some of us went down to Orvis hot springs for a dip.
Not a lot of planning or cost on my part. Just thirty Guzzisti from the four points converging on a cool place, and enjoying life for a couple days. Then, just as they arrived, they disappeared into the horizon in all directions.
Good times. :bike
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I'm an official card-carrying member of Geezers Anonymous, and relatively new to the MG scene. But I've had motorcycles pretty much since I was 14. I also spent 42 years at a university, with lots of exposure to 'young people'. They're as varied a bunch as you might expect, and I have no more idea what they want than they do. But I can pretty much guarantee that what they DON'T want is to sit around until 9 PM listening to a bunch of old farts talk about the time they resurrected a barn find, and then listen to those old farts snore the night away. They're not as concerned with image and marque as you might think. I've spent more time at my MG dealer than I want, and I've observed that I'm by far the oldest customer there. 2 of the people working there, and doing a great job, are young enough to be my grandchildren. They're doing more to promote MG to their age group than any crowd of geezers ever could. Stop worrying about it, go for a ride.
Dyslexics untie!
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I 'signed up' as a state rep one month when I didn't make it to a monthly gathering. They voted me in since I wasn't there it say no. ~;
****
As your unappointed campaign manager for election to an office you did not seek, i view this as an example of how democracy is a beautiful thing. ;D
Bill
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Yup , and Miss Kitty would have supplied the , er , um , ... well , the lap dancers ;D Seriously , we need a few more of these "unorganized" events , what are we gonna call your's , and where do we sign up ?
Dusty
Let's see. Hmmmmmm Missouri campout at possum paradise? There will be no sign up, wouldn't be very hippified would it?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag65/guzzistajohn/CROPPEDPOSSUM_zpsa6dc42d2.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/guzzistajohn/media/CROPPEDPOSSUM_zpsa6dc42d2.jpg.html)
Rally or NAR Mascot
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Elvis sang, "A little less conversation, a little more action."
I don't have many good ideas, yet. I hoping to come up with some. Do any of you have any ideas that might make Guzzi rallies more attractive?
Maybe I do have one, now that I think of it. Better advertising. I used to subscribe to Motorcycle Consumer News, and they have a list of M/C events, clubs all across the country would list their happening, but not MGNOC. The only Guzzi rally I ever saw listed in their list was WI, why? Listing your event, I think was free, and reached thousands of M/C riders and enthusiast. Why don't other rallies list there and else where, we need new blood, seems like a great way to reach out?
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and now... for a musical interlude...
"A little less conversation":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvlxRvhCB_A
and for a more on topic tune, "clean up your own backyard". I think this is going to be the new Wild Guzzi Western Adventure theme song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGHPku_XIu0
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With the exception of the Poverty Riders most BMW events are very structured. Every thing goes from A to B to C with a volunteer in charge of A, someone else in charge of B and so on. BMW rallies have become huge. If you want to increase attendance you will need structure. You know exactly what is going to happen next. I prefer a rally to a camp-out. I do enjoy seeing you folks but I just prefer rallies and I'm willing to pay the fee. The BMW folks understand how capitalism works.
I also enjoy camp-outs or NARs. These events attract the same group of folks that enjoy each others company. Nothing wrong with that at all except I would not expect an NAR to attract new folks. I wouldn't ride all the way across country to attend one.
Swamp Scooters was a blast with many volunteers working at the direction of one person(Most of the folks running Swamp Scooters are MG riders). The biggest concern was that the rally would become to large. I don't think we need to worry about a NAR becoming to large. Same with Coon Bottom this weekend except CB is just sort of organized. You have to pay to camp but the food is paid from donations. They give awards. I'll throw some money in the pot Friday and again on Saturday. I expect Marion to do the same.
There is something about MG riders that just doesn't fit the mold. When we sold a BMW we expected that person to return to the shop for nit picking crap. When we sold a MG we never saw then again except at our open house with free beer. However, the BMW folks also showed up.
Bottom line. If we started seeing MG at ever corner we find something else to ride. Be careful of what you wish for.
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If we had that chick in the 1st video dancing at a rally I bet we could stay up until 10:45 at LEAST!
Great how that dood in the 2nd vid. can make that archtop guitar sound just like a Dobro.
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I remember seeing Matt at the Alaska NAR a couple summers ago. He got the long distance award -- on a beemer! 8)
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Dilli , two things , the HUGE MOA AND RA rallies may be more of a reflection of how many beemers there are in America . Secondly , Kirby 1923 came all the way from Paris via Memphis and Rogers AR for CV last year , and all the way from CA this year , so some will , some won't .
Dusty
Yeah. No touching that distance award. 1420 miles from Tehachapi California to Cedar Vale Kansas in what? 36-hours?
He's a hard charger on the CX-100.
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Yeah. No touching that distance award. 1420 miles from Tehachapi California to Cedar Vale Kansas in what? 36-hours?
He's a hard charger on the CX-100.
That old dude is tougher than nails.
We're all different. I've had just as good of a time at some of our campouts as big MGNOC rallys, maybe better. The 150 mile ride I took with JN Smith in OK was one of the most memorable times I'd had at a rally.
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As much as I appreciate what MGNOC has done for the brand,I'm having a hard time sending in dues for my wife and I, this goes back to when Frank decided to stop the hard copy news letter, I really enjoyed that and passed it along to other Guzzi riders who weren't fimiliar with MGNOC.
I do like going to rallies, we've had the oppertunity to attend 5 Nationals and really enjoy the Wisconsin rally, Minnesotas is ok just because the location is similar to Wisc,but Wisconsin by far has better beer,Iowa has the best food and its in a beautiful area of the country, and this year Minnesotas is on a new date and place,which I'm trying hard to schedule. I really like meeting the Moto heads and checking out the bike mods, and especially enjoy the opportunity to learn from these folks.
In the future years if and when We get to retire we hope to spend a year or 2 trying to get to as many as possible, I wonder who holds the record for attending the most rallies in a single year, I'd bet it's someone like Minot Phil. I think it's the Moto characters Lke Ace, Pyro Dan, CHris Collins, Tom sticking his finger up, FotoGuzzi and all the Minnesota group and a lot others I've met over the years that make the rallies so cool.
Having said all that I'd like to see this group and MGNOC grow, but without a monthly hard copy news letter I don't think it will. This site and group will just cus it's such a great resource for anyone needing quick and mostly accurate help with their Guzzi.
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Let's suggest ways and make plans to improve the club and awareness of the brand.
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My recommendation is to combine WG and MGNOC and make WG a members only forum. In other words, f%%k the free loaders.
I like it! Make the brand desirable through exclusion - was this inspired from the SouthPark episode where Cartman buys a busted amusement park & turns it around by limiting access to it? :P
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The Ouray NAR was great -- I look forward eagerly to the next one. WG is great -- it's saved my sanity and my sweet old T.
I retired recently from a job running a national nonprofit organization, and I'm now running a different nonprofit organization serving lifelong devotees of skiing. I can tell you that people will join an organization they feel passionate about, but they won't renew unless there's some tangible member benefit. An annual convention or rally may be good enough for a small core group of true believers, but in most groups that's less than 10% of the newsletter audience. And nowadays a newsletter has to compete with free-info sources like WG. Younger people in particular want info instantly and that means a vital up-to-the-minute website or forum, not a newsletter delivered (by mail or web) six times a year. Larger organizations offer other benefits: a wide variety of insurance and consulting products, lead-generation deals for their commercial members etc.
Regional events get noisy and interesting when they're backed by commercial enterprises -- usually dealers -- who can bring in entertainment, demo rides, etc. Want a Guzzi-oriented mini-Sturgis? I don't. But if I had a dealership, I'd turn my parking lot into a barbecue once a year and invite everyone who rides one of my marques for free brats and nonalcoholic brew. I'd hire a bluegrass band and give merchandise prizes for distance ridden, cleanest bike, wildest custom etc.
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I don't go to MoKAN much because it's a 700 mile road straight as an arrow to get there.. by the time I get back my back tire is always squared off.
Join us at the MN rally, new date/new place, God's country- camp on the shore of Lake Superior! bring warm clothes..
MGNOC has not adapted to the new millenium..
Interested in knowing the new location and dates. Been way too long since I've been to Minnesota on one of my bikes.
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I've been into Guzzis a couple years now, after buying a Griso, the absolute coolest bike on the planet. We have a pretty active riding group here in Rochester, NY. But my buddies are mostly on Triumphs and Jap bikes, me included, I have a VStrom too . The group average age is about 45 I'd say. Many of our bikes are adv style, but nobody pulls trigger on Stelvio.
While I don't have any intention of organizing an annual rally, I have "hosted" a monthly breakfast for over a year now, hoping to drag Guzzi riders out into the sunlight. I love these bikes. My buddies aren't that crazy about them. I've had so few Guzzi riders turn out I'm not sure why I still list the breakfast. I can only guess that Local Guzzi riders desire to be loners or they don't know about the breakfast. The breakfast is listed in MGNOC newsletter ever month. I've spammed about it here before. Still just me and my regular riding buds.
It is what it is. Average rider age overall is rising. Add to that Guzzi exclusivity and mystery among even hardcore riders, and this is what we have. Yeah, the exlusivity is appealing, but to the point nobody gives a damn about them outside our circle?
I'd suggest Guzzi make a hot sportbike to lure younger riders. But most squids want gixxers, and you can't convince the Speed and Strength kids Guzzis presently available are worth their time and higher price.
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and I have no more idea what they want than they do. But I can pretty much guarantee that what they DON'T want is to sit around until 9 PM listening to a bunch of old farts talk about the time they resurrected a barn find, and then listen to those old farts snore the night away.
Seems like everyone knows what "young people" DON'T want to do at a rally, but nobody seems to know what they WANT to do at a rally that they can't do now.
Maybe they're more like the old guys than they think. What they really want to do is to moan that there isn't anything to do, from what I can tell. At least I haven't heard of any other ideas yet.
Lannis
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Wow, I was beginning to thing I was the only one making comments that pissed others off on this forum. I feeling better already.
The Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Club does not share their magazine and web site with non members. Pay to play, nothing wrong with that rule. I say if you don't have a dog in this fight, it should not matter what Frank or the State Reps do.
I agree, it belongs to Frank....
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I love going to rallies and camp outs, but as most know those that show up are getting more gray each year, and not enough young folks are showing up to keep the numbers up. If this doesn't change, I don't think their will be many conventional Guzzi rallies left in the US.
I think we need to ask ourselves, why don't more young people show up?
My take is that young folks have far more options today, as far as how to spend their leisure time, then we did at their age. Ridding to a semi far away destination to camp in the woods with a bunch of fat, gray haired dudes on weird old bikes and sit around a camp fire and drink beer, may only appeal to a relatively small group of the young. Most rallies don't have live music, and if they do it's usually, country or blue grass, and its over by 9:30.
Walk out of your tent at midnight Friday at any Guzzi rally, what will you hear? Crickets, and sounds of snoring! There may be a couple fires with a few folks still up having too much fun to go to bed ( Im almost always in one of them) but 90% of the rally is asleep!
I love rallies and campouts, but if the format doesn't change a bit, or young people have some sort of epiphany that they do like to hang out in the woods, the future for conventional rallies looks bleak.
I have been noting the lack of young people at the rallies and on the few Moto Guzzis I see, though I talk with quite a few younkers who make affirmative noises about the motor. The thing which occurs to me is that there ought to be a "natural" flow of incoming riders who would both take to the machines and the rallies/get togethers of whatever type.
If young people wanted to attend rallies and to stay up later than we old folks do they'd do it, and maybe tell anyone who objected to their noise to pack up and go home, for the young have "entered" and taken over. Even with a lot of us having taken time to introduce our young family members to the brand and to the social contacts it offers, there isn't much response even among those people who could have the easy acceptance of family members.
Perhaps, like fraternal orders and military veteran organizations, the young folks just don't see the benefit in belonging?
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Dilli , two things , the HUGE MOA AND RA rallies may be more of a reflection of how many beemers there are in America . Secondly , Kirby 1923 came all the way from Paris via Memphis and Rogers AR for CV last year , and all the way from CA this year , so some will , some won't .
Dusty
Dusty, could be but I'm not so sure. The Knobbies BMW rally in NC is not all that well organized and, when compared to other BMW rallies, attendance is quite small. Coon Bottom, although they do give awards, is also very close to a NAR and attendance is not that large. However, I have to agree with you about the limited number of MG's. I know I prefer the smaller rallies and seldom attend the larger BMW events. The Gathering of the Clans is very much a NAR rally and attendance is quite small(tho large by MG standards). The next BMW rally is in North Florida at Camp Blanding and is a well run rally that will have about 500 attending. I left the last one Saturday morning. Way to many people for me. :BEER:
Matt
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I wouldn't worry too much about the "younger folks" as there is a natural progression through your adult life. I for 1 have had a motorcycle for over 40 years, but it's only since the kids all moved out that I've had time to start attending any motorcycle rallies. Sure there was the odd 1 day poker run or Toy run but every weekend from the time they're 4 until 24 there was a baseball, soccer, rugby, horse show, band tournament, show , competition and then some. From what I have seen some people can swing bringing they're young children with them, but not nearly as many as the number of adults attending would suggest. We have had a camp out for over 20 years now with just a bunch of my wife's friends who all gave up equestrian sports, so their kids could do it, and now the "kids" have all married and have kids of their own. Now the adults are back into it. I see motorcycle rallies in the same light. :BEER:
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I wouldn't worry too much about the "younger folks" as there is a natural progression through your adult life. I for 1 have had a motorcycle for over 40 years, but it's only since the kids all moved out that I've had time to start attending any motorcycle rallies. Sure there was the odd 1 day poker run or Toy run but every weekend from the time they're 4 until 24 there was a baseball, soccer, rugby, horse show, band tournament, show , competition and then some. From what I have seen some people can swing bringing they're young children with them, but not nearly as many as the number of adults attending would suggest. We have had a camp out for over 20 years now with just a bunch of my wife's friends who all gave up equestrian sports, so their kids could do it, and now the "kids" have all married and have kids of their own. Now the adults are back into it. I see motorcycle rallies in the same light. :BEER:
Yup! This ..... :+1
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Interested in knowing the new location and dates....
Grand Marais, June 26-28, the weekend after the MGNOC National in NH. You can stop in at Aerostitch on the way past Duluth and spend some money.
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Grand Marias ;-T
this was the view from my camp site:
(http://g3.img-dpreview.com/6E2EF764154B43A79764BF27DDCB3A76.jpg)
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This age issue hits all brands of MCs so don't feel like we're alone. When I go to Guzzi rallies I always see a few young riders. I didn't own a Guzzi until I was 43. At the time I had only ridden Yamahas for 20+ years and had never been to any MC rally until my first @ an Oregon Guzzi National in 1990? Had I been to any other MC rally I doubt I would have liked it as much as that 1 and I repeatedly hear BMW riders say they prefer a Guzzi rally to a BMW rally any time.
1 time in the `90s I ran into a BMW rider @ a shopping center in Quincy, Ca. He invited us to a BMW rally just up the road @ the fairgrounds. So we rode up there and were refused entrance unless we were a BMW club member or were invited by a club member. ::) What I learned about BMW rallies later I wouldn't have liked what I saw anyway. ;D
To all the Guzzi events I've been to since anyone is welcome no matter what they ride. If they show up on a Harley they might take some ribbing, tho.
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While I am a lifetime MGNOC member, I wonder if I would become one now if I was just starting out with Guzzi. As with many clubs and organizations, much of the value they provide has been made redundant by the internet.
A while back, I helped another member create digital copies of some really old newsletters because they were on large paper and he didn't have a large format scanner. It was fun looking through these old documents and you could really see how valuable these were back when there was no way to quickly get information. Large classified sections, tons of tips, info on new models, advertisements for parts outlets, etc.
With the internet, we have plenty of resources for classifieds, and pretty much anyone with a tech question can get qualified help/suggestions almost instantaneously. A printed publication for these things is just not going to be helpful except to the small number of people that can't/won't use a computer.
So really that pretty much leaves rallies and other functions left for the club and where the MGNOC should focus it's resources. There are lots of ways they could do that. Increase the number of get-togethers, organize booths at motorcycle rallies/shows, etc.
Better club support for the rallies might help as well. I haven't been to a whole lot of them and all have been in the Western U.S. but it seems that mostly they are left up to the local rep with little/no support from MGNOC. I don't really know that is the case, it just seems that way from my experience. The one so-called National Rally I attended in Malibu seemed to have little support and from what I hear was actually snubbed/boycotted by many influential club members, which is certainly no way to promote an organization.
Lastly I would say there are plenty of other motorcycle/car organizations/clubs that are dealing with these same issues. Might be a good idea to look at what some of the more successful ones are doing to get ideas.
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While I am a lifetime MGNOC member, I wonder if I would become one now if I was just starting out with Guzzi.
I wouldn't. I'd just pay my dues each year.
At my age, a lifetime membership in ANYTHING could easily be a losing proposition ..... :D
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While I am a lifetime MGNOC member, I wonder if I would become one now if I was just starting out with Guzzi. As with many clubs and organizations, much of the value they provide has been made redundant by the internet.
A while back, I helped another member create digital copies of some really old newsletters because they were on large paper and he didn't have a large format scanner. It was fun looking through these old documents and you could really see how valuable these were back when there was no way to quickly get information. Large classified sections, tons of tips, info on new models, advertisements for parts outlets, etc.
With the internet, we have plenty of resources for classifieds, and pretty much anyone with a tech question can get qualified help/suggestions almost instantaneously. A printed publication for these things is just not going to be helpful except to the small number of people that can't/won't use a computer.
So really that pretty much leaves rallies and other functions left for the club and where the MGNOC should focus it's resources. There are lots of ways they could do that. Increase the number of get-togethers, organize booths at motorcycle rallies/shows, etc.
Better club support for the rallies might help as well. I haven't been to a whole lot of them and all have been in the Western U.S. but it seems that mostly they are left up to the local rep with little/no support from MGNOC. I don't really know that is the case, it just seems that way from my experience. The one so-called National Rally I attended in Malibu seemed to have little support and from what I hear was actually snubbed/boycotted by many influential club members, which is certainly no way to promote an organization.
Lastly I would say there are plenty of other motorcycle/car organizations/clubs that are dealing with these same issues. Might be a good idea to look at what some of the more successful ones are doing to get ideas.
Well said! ;-T ;-T ;-T
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Well I'm getting up there (58) so ain't bringing you no youngun, but I'm new. I was was excited to find MGOG and Wildguzzi, already learned a lot.
Looks like only a small group active down my way (Kentucky) but look forward to making one of the neighboring rallies.
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One key difference between WG and MGNOC is that the former is a forum with international participation...not limited to USA. MGNOC is really just a USA club. 20 years ago, when I first joined MGNOC, it was really the only game in town. Times have changed and the Internet has greatly expanded our horizons.
As for the young folks at rallies...last year I went to the InterNational in Canada. There was a young group from Western New York and they really had a grand time. Yes, they were hootin' and hollerin' well after midnight. On Saturday I joined the group and had a wonderful time. Now I can't wait to go to their rally. It's not all doom and gloom with nothing but the geriatric crowd.
Peter Y.
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in any group I have been a part of, 90% bitch because the 10% did it wrong, again.
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Seems like everyone knows what "young people" DON'T want to do at a rally, but nobody seems to know what they WANT to do at a rally that they can't do now.
Maybe they're more like the old guys than they think. What they really want to do is to moan that there isn't anything to do, from what I can tell. At least I haven't heard of any other ideas yet.
Lannis
Don't be askin' old guys what young people want; ask the young people.
I learned that one long before I got 'old'.
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Don't be askin' old guys what young people want; ask the young people.
I learned that one long before I got 'old'.
I have asked that question before. They couch their answer in a lot of different words, but basically what it all comes down to, is they want "Night Life"; ie, to get drunk and get laid. :o
We got young people HERE. Guys under 40. But they're here because that's NOT all they want out of a rally.
"Young People" who want to get drunk and get laid are not ever going to go to a Moto Guzzi rally, so there's no use even trying .... ;D
Lannis
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Well they can easily get half of what they want at any mid west Guzzi rally. The getting drunk part is a sure thing at IL/WI if that's what you want, getting laid, that might take a little more work.
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Not getting laid is likely the root..
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in any group I have been a part of, 90% bitch because the 10% did it wrong, again.
Well said Goose, my experience as well.
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I didn't coin it. The term showed up first out West a few years ago, as far as I recall. Some NARs in Arizona and California.
Jamileh's been having NARs for years. ;D She's a pretty fast girl. :o and has a Rosso Corsa, among others.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/P1060507_zps257c86f5.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/P1060507_zps257c86f5.jpg.html)
;D
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State Rep here,
There is no guide book for doing this "job".
Frank has never told me what to do. If he would have to ....then I'm the wrong guy for the job. It's up to the state reps to keep the interest up and try to get new people active.... the more the merrier!
You get out of any club what you put into it. I belong to many local clubs and many dues paying internet clubs. Same holds true if it's local or cyber based.
Later,
JU
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Ok, a little history here. Frank started the MGNOC news right after the dinosaurs roamed the earth. Without it, I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't be any Guzzi presence in the US. It was *the* place for info (some not so good) ;D on how to fix and bodge your Guzzi, along with rally info. There was *no* other place.
Then came the internet. Message boards. The Topica mail list, ran by Roy Harvey. It was great. People all over the world talking about Guzzis. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, here. I understand that Frank had a tiff with Roy, and okayed WG. You could even post pictures on WG. :o Topica and WG ran alongside for a while, but WG was much more user friendly.. not to mention Natasha, the robot at Topica was sometimes a PITA. ;D I thought at the time that Frank was making a mistake because WG would overtake the newsletter and he'd lose his income stream from the newsletter. Still, I kept sending in my dues. Until. One time I was out in California, wanted to take a trip, and realized I didn't have the members only list of people that would help out if you had a break down. Called Frank. He asked my membership number, but I don't carry the card with my number on it, it was back in Indiana, and he wouldn't give me the password. I no longer "belong".
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Guzzi PEOPLE are the best! last rally I went to nobody cared if me & Bones came on other brands..
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/Buell/IMG_0781_zps5b103617.jpg)
you can even come in a car (Eldorado) my first Guzzi rally and I brought 2 of my 3 kids.. you can tell they had a blast!
with the Nintendo and VHS tapes in tent.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/IMG002_1_zpseba686ef.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/IMG003_1_zps8d77d79c.jpg)
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Grand Marias ;-T
this was the view from my camp site:
(http://g3.img-dpreview.com/6E2EF764154B43A79764BF27DDCB3A76.jpg)
Lake Superior is sublime@!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrAgGqJdYdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMQ9LdqzUzI
one of our rallys had a couple Hard tails in the campground.. note plate.. these were hard core riders crossing the USA off their bucket list.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/00440001.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/00440011_1.jpg)
visit Wild Goose park no of Thunder Bay if you come round the lake.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/ROLL3DX-07_1-1.jpg)
off the beaten path along the north shore,
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/DSCN2057.jpg)
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Thanks to all that have reviewed or commented about this topic. It appears the forum is the best place for news and information.
;-T
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As a (just barely) sub-40 year old member, I've been reading this, trying to decide how to contribute to this conversation. It seems that it started with how to get more young people interested in the MG brand of bikes, and has turned into a question of how to get more younger people interested in rallies.
As for interest in the brand, I purchased my Jackal rig from a family member, who originally purchased it on a whim because I had been droning on and on about wanting a sidecar. I did not know the brand, I didn't buy into the club so to speak. As soon as I started riding it, I fell in love. The feel of the bike, the personality won me over. I became an instant ambassador of the goose. However, as someone in an age group that sometimes has to pit even the cheaper motorcycle repair costs against basic bills like rent, utilities, and school loans, the lack of readily available used parts has made me dream of a Honda on occasion. The other issue for younger owners is the lack of available mechanics. I have been very impressed with the availability and willingness of people here to offer advice on repairs, but there is a point where I am stressed that something is wrong and I am sorting through threads and sometimes differing opinions on how this or that should be done. Sometimes, I would like that safety net of knowing that if I can't get it, there is that mechanic in town who has done this hundreds of times before. There is no mechanic (that I've found) in the county I live in who will look at my bike with a tool anywhere near them. As I learn more and more about my bike, this will be less and less of an issue, but if I was 20 with only the basic mechanical skills, this would be a major issue. As it is, my bike was making some odd noises when I last rode it...
As for rallies, I attended my first motorcycle rally in June in SW VA, and even though it was a fiasco for me (rear wheel basically fell apart an hour or so after arriving), I didn't know what I rode there expecting. I wanted to ride, sit and bullshit, drink some whiskey, and make new friends. I can't really say how it went for me, since I was so completely stressed over my situation, I didn't have a chance to really enjoy myself. Had my bike not broken, I think I would have greatly enjoyed it. Had I not been so distracted, I would have recorded the symphony of snoring that started just after 9pm and composed some beautiful, beautiful music from it.
I think I would enjoy something like Sturgis, but probably for only the first day. Maybe the first few hours even. The idea of the spectacle is appealing, but is undoubtedly shallow. The thought of getting laid at the rally never entered my mind as I had been to enough of the lunches to know I never wanted to see Lannis, Ron, or Allyn with their shirts off, none the less any other articles of clothing. And, certainly, nobody wants to see me with my shirt off. The rally I was looking forward to was about socializing, relaxing, and learning about the brand I've invested in.
I think that events might be a part of attracting a younger crowd, but rallies and camp outs might not be the right events. The idea of gatherings at garages or dealers, with bbq, music, merch vendors, and good people might appeal more to younger crowds. These could be a day long event, so they can go home to their kids. Instead of a single event, that people come from far and far away for, these can be smaller, local when possible. These hopefully wouldn't replace the rally, just augment. I've thought a few times about offering to host a bbq for my local group. But, I hesitate to interfere with the regular lunch.
With social media and hand held internet access, socializing has become a constant part of the day for the younger generation. I think a single event, once a year is a strange concept to some. The monthly lunches are really good, but what else could they become. I'm probably talking out my keister right now, but mostly thinking out loud. I'm a bit horrified at how long this reply was, thankfully there isn't a per word charge...
Sam
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Get real boys, this is what we need to "breathe new life" into this bunch!
http://www.daviddarling.info/images/automated_external_defibrillator.jpg
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I'm late to the party but to the OP what "club" are you refering to?
MGNOC is Frank's and unless he breathes new life into it then I'd say you are probably right it's lost. If you read the "Club History" on the website it seems to stop somewhere in the late '90s. MGNOC is definately not a "club" but a product owned by a person and he can (and seems to) do as he pleases.
Wildguzzi is a website and a place to share information and ejoy written conversation. It's not a club either and anyone can join in, share information, or just read. Luap and the mods do a great job of keeping things straight and I was very happy when added the donation button to support their efforts.
It's where I get all of my rally information and through its messaging where most of my informal ride planning comes from.
I am, however, a member of the Moto Guzzi Owners Club of Georgia even though I live in SC. They have a website and have reqular monthly meetings, informal rides as well as a fall "campout." The site does point you to the MGNOC and Wayne is the GA MGNOC rep but I'm not sure what other relationship there is between the two financial or otherwise. Regardless Wayne and Vicky (and Screamday through Carolina Riders) were the first Guzzi folks we met and their friendship along with the others in the GA club are a big reason we've stayed with the brand so long. I would support it financially if I could but the guy running it can be difficult to deal with :)
So If were to breathe some life it would be local. Even though I'm in SC the GA group is what I consider to be the club.
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Maybe consider that the Moto Guzzi Owners group will always be in this country a relatively small group of Guzzi fans - size is less important, and age is less important, what matters is whether you enjoy the interaction or activities put on by the club. I really enjoyed last year's GRIT rally here in Texas, couldn't make it to the one this year, but I think we were up till past midnight around the campfire - great camaraderie and hospitality by all and a nice gathering. I'm tempted to do the New Hampshire rally...although that's quite a trek on the bike...and Ouray...well that's heaven on earth...one of my favorite places in the whole US.
I've been a member of the Houston Land Rover club for 9 years...some years it had tons of activities, other years it has been quieter, we all still share the love of Land Rovers and it's cyclical as well at times. I've also been an on/off member of the Porsche Lone Star Club - I've done a couple of events with them, they are well organized and lots of fun and activities.
I think with Guzzi - it's a smaller group of fans, and people come in one by one rather than by the dozens...either way, it's mystical, magical and exciting as well as entertaining...who cares what age someone is...if they are interesting, adventurous and have a sense of humour...what more is needed?
Cheers fellas...from "freezing" Houston... ha ha!
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Another MGNOC State Rep here: Alice & I took on the job of being the Virginia Reps in 1992. Back then the order of business was trying to keep the Virginia Moto Guzzi Owners Club alive (sound familiar?). Yes, I have an actual Charter from the MGNOC, Issued April 11,1980, signed by Gale S. Simson over the title "National Director". The VMGOC formed in Tidewater (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Chesapeake/Portsmouth) by a group of Guzzi enthusiasts, many in the Navy stationed there. There was a dealer in Va Beach, and the club held it's meetings in a room on the second floor over the dealership. An especially active member of the club was from the Western part of the state, familiar with Sherando Lake & motivated the group to move the Va rally there in 1982. (The first Sherando rally was actually the second Va rally).
I bought my first Guzzi in 1981 & attended my first rally (Emmaus Pa.) in 1982. I was 36 years old, got Thoroughly "droned" howled at the moon, partied hearty, (fortunately) survived all that stupidity........an d LOVED it. I joined the Va club &got as active as I could....from 230 miles away. Through the later 80's the VMGOC suffered from the dealership closing, Navy people being transferred & retiring, divorces etc. etc. AND a schism developed between the MGNOC Rep (Located near Richmond) and the Tidewater group. The Rep wanted to move the rally closer to the center of the state & most other members were happy with Sherando. It resulted in TWO Va. rallies one year (a "MGNOC" & a "VMGOC"). After the Rep's rally was poorly attended he decided to resign. My thought was "This is ridiculous, a small group of people with a common passion can't get along???? I can get along with almost anybody". So, I wrote a letter to Frank Wedge & got a box of MGNOC stationary with our names as new Va Reps....that & our MGNOC Memberships free pretty much all I've ever received from Frank. I worked with the remaining core of the Tidewater group, trying to figure ways to recruit members (especially that elusive 10% who will actually DO something), but it was all just banging our heads against a tide of change. We ended up dropping all the formal trappings of a club, meetings, dues, officers, etc. Those of us who put on the various Guzzi meets around the State are all "Directors" of the VMGOC. The Va rally is "the" Va yearly event. The last of the Tidewater group were retiring from the Navy etc. & handed the "rallymaster" job to Alice & I in 1998. We did the National in 2000 (with MUCH appreciated help from the North Carolina and Maryland/DC MGNOC Reps, along with more good folks than I can list here). We did the job until 2007. We were burned pretty crispy by then & were fortunate to have Roger & Marilyn Davis take over for a planned 5 years culminating in a National in 2012. R&M did one extra year in 2013. For 2014 Alice & I are again fortunate & grateful to have Kurt & Sue Nordstrom step up & accept the responsibility. They stepped into a mess. Weather & scheduling issues had resulted in low attendance at the '12 National & '13 Va state rallies. Festering problems with our old rally location dictated a relocation. A dwindling, aging group of volunteers demanded changes to lighten the workload. Kurt & Sue took over with fresh ideas & enthusiasm, streamlining the rally with: On line preregistration. On line advance ordering of tshirts. No doorprizes. All meals catered. We were gratified by a good turn-out and a smoothly run event (especially with all the changes from "the way we've always done it")
As to the question that heads this thread, "breath new life" is what we're all trying to do. The future of the "rally" is a microcosm. It all comes down to good folks having time energy & enthusiasm they are willing to share.
Ronkom
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Dililw said: :It's where I get all of my rally information and through its messaging where most of my informal ride planning comes from".
Without MGNOC there would be no state reps. Without state reps the number of MG get together would be reduced to little more than a few camp in's, if that.
Without MGNOC most get together would amount to little more that someone posting on WG suggesting we all get together at such and such.
In my travels when I speak to a MG rider some post on WG, many do not.
My impression is that not that many WG posters attend rallies and, for them, MGNOC would not be missed.
I will continue to support the MGNOC and, for those of you who are not members, I ask you to join. :BEER:
Matt
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Dililw said: :It's where I get all of my rally information and through its messaging where most of my informal ride planning comes from".
Without MGNOC there would be no state reps. Without state reps the number of MG get together would be reduced to little more than a few camp in's, if that.
without MGNOC most get together would amount to little more that someone posting on WG suggesting we all get together at such and such.
In my travels when I speak to a MG rider some post on WG, many do not.
My impression is that not that many WG posters attend rallies and WG would not be missed.
I will continue to support the MGNOC and, for those of you who are not members, I ask you to join. :BEER:
Matt
There are hundreds of MGNOC members who participate in rallies that know nothing about WG. Don't even use a computer. WG serves 1 purpose and MGNOC another, real rallies, breakfasts, campouts. You can go to the MGNOC website, see what, where their events are, maybe join 1 and see these committed riders for your selves. Who knows, you might decide to join them. MGNOC members represent more of the Guzzi faithful than WG does and has a much larger total count.
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So MGNOC has 10,000 members ? That was the last figure I heard re WG membership . Funny , the next National is already being discussed on WG , and most of the state rallies are discussed and promoted here . Sure , lots of old farts don't have computers , but that is changing rapidly . As for the REAL rally question , none of our local stuff is sanctioned anymore , folks still show up , talk and ride Guzzi , have fun . Sorry , kind of find it silly to define them as not REAL .
Dusty
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So MGNOC has 10,000 members ? That was the last figure I heard re WG membership . Funny , the next National is already being discussed on WG , and most of the state rallies are discussed and promoted here . Sure , lots of old farts don't have computers , but that is changing rapidly . As for the REAL rally question , none of our local stuff is sanctioned anymore , folks still show up , talk and ride Guzzi , have fun . Sorry , kind of find it silly to define them as not REAL .
Dusty
What I mean by real is how many show up. All the Guzzi rallies I've been to it's 80 to 500+ that show up. I've been to 1 NAR so far and it was maybe 25.
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Actually Matt , the Admins and Mods here are doing this for free .
Dusty
Yep Dusty you got it right. They do it out of love of the Guzzi community. I have no problem with Frank Wedge doing a members only for profit (that is if he does make a profit) newsletter but WG beats the heck of MGNOC. Realtime help for Guizzi's in trouble. Plus lots of non-Guzzi stuff. Heck someone started a freaking sewing machine thread this week. Talk about men being men. MGNOC doesn't do that. There is more technical help here than I can find in Guzziology (apologizes to Dave Richardson).
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What I mean by real is how many show up. All the Guzzi events I've been to it's 80 to 500+ that show up. I've been to 1 NAR so far and it was maybe 25.
Yep, and that would be the 25 folks who post on WG that go to--rallies. And good on them. ;-T Marion and I sure enjoy their company. ;D I just wish those who are not MGNOC members would join.
We tend to resent Frank for trying to make a profit on the service he offers and while the admins and mods may not be getting a piece of the action(Thank You), someone is making money off of WG. ::( :BEER:
Matt
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Yep, and that would be the 25 folks who post on WG that go to--rallies. And good on them. ;-T Marion and I sure enjoy their company. ;D I just wish those who are not MGNOC members would join.
We tend to resent Frank for trying to make a profit on the service he offers and while the admins and mods may not be getting a piece of the action(Thank You), someone is making money off of WG. ::( :BEER:
Matt
Who resents Frank for making a profit? He puts a lot of work into MGNOC but no one has to join if they do not want to. When I joined WG no one asked me for a penny yet it costs to keep WG running. If LUAP et. al. make a few bucks then so be it. But I offered up a few bucks to keep this online. It is fun and a great resource for all things Guzzi and and many other things. The only time it gets loopy is with gun threads..... ;D ;D ;D then all bets are off. ;)
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Yep, and that would be the 25 folks who post on WG that go to--rallies. And good on them. ;-T Marion and I sure enjoy their company. ;D I just wish those who are not MGNOC members would join.
We tend to resent Frank for trying to make a profit on the service he offers and while the admins and mods may not be getting a piece of the action(Thank You), someone is making money off of WG. ::( :BEER:
Matt
When does the "statute of limitations" run out on Guzzi owners "owing" Frank for all of his past service? IMO, he's been well compensated by now and we don't owe him anything more. I gave him three chances to retain me as a member but his apathetic attitude towards resolving the issues I was having put me off permanently. I still help with the MD Rally and promote the brand every chance I get, but there's little chance I will ever rejoin the MGNOC.
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Yep, and that would be the 25 folks who post on WG that go to--rallies. And good on them. ;-T Marion and I sure enjoy their company. ;D I just wish those who are not MGNOC members would join.
We tend to resent Frank for trying to make a profit on the service he offers and while the admins and mods may not be getting a piece of the action(Thank You), someone is making money off of WG. ::( :BEER:
Matt
Why shouldn't someone make any $ off their effort and idea? Unless you think like a communist I don't see why a person would care if they do. Does anyone here prefer to work for nothing?? ~;
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ACC wrote: "When does the "statute of limitations" run out on Guzzi owners "owing" Frank for all of his past service? IMO, he's been well compensated by now and we don't owe him anything more".
And that Sir is your opinion. ::( I just don't happen to share it. ;D With out Frank and MGNOC I don't think you would have a MD Rally to help with. Frank must be doing something right. Sure has some folks resenting him. :o Best way not to upset folks is to sit on your thumbs and do nothing. :BEER:
Matt
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If you want to attract younger people to the owners group how about we ask the very people we want? It is a novel idea but it might just work! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Seriously a bunch of old guys (I consider myself old too) talking about how to get younger people to come to join your club is like a bunch of nuns talking about what brand of condom is best for guys to use.
Most younger people are on facebook, or twitter, or instagram. The first thing you would want to do is have a presence on one of these sites and try to engage with them there. There is already a Moto Guzzi Owners group on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/328264358708/?fref=nf if anyone on here is interested.
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I'm not into face book but that appears to be the MGNOC.
The MGNOC (Moto Guzzi National Owners Club) is a friendly group to belong to. Here you'll find sociable Guzzi people, great times, and Moto Guzzi Information direct to you from Moto Guzzi enthusiasts World Wide. Please keep your posts on topic and remember we have members of all ages, races and religions, try not to offend anyone. :BEER:
Matt
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There are hundreds of MGNOC members who participate in rallies that know nothing about WG. Don't even use a computer. WG serves 1 purpose and MGNOC another, real rallies, breakfasts, campouts. You can go to the MGNOC website, see what, where their events are, maybe join 1 and see these committed riders for your selves. Who knows, you might decide to join them. MGNOC members represent more of the Guzzi faithful than WG does and has a much larger total count.
So . . . if hundreds of mgnoc members don't have a computer and Frank has ceased to communicate in any other media but his website, how do all these phantom members stay in touch?
I've seen a few references to the huge membership of mgnoc compared to WG. Frank doesn't publish his active membership stats. How do you arrive at this conclusion?
To answer the OP directly -- The MGNOC is what FRANK wants it to be. Our opinion doesn't count. It's his business and his show. If Frank thought the 'club' needed new life, he'd be doing something to make it so -- and he's not. If he wanted his website to have a member forum it would be there. It's not. That's because these discussions would be happening there if a forum existed, and he doesn't want to hear about it.
But in my opinion, this is the wrong battle for the mgnoc faithful to be fighting. If mgnoc members are concerned about the life of the group now, just wait until Frank is no longer in the mix. With no club structure, no officers, no club treasury, no meetings, 'member' input not welcomed, and no plan for a successor, what happens to the 'club' then? I think it bites the dust in a heartbeat. So I think the battle should be to figure out what happens to the mgnoc post-Frank. No plan, no future for the club. It's that simple.
Once again, $0.02
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Well Folks, I joined up today. I also have some spare time to assist with a SC Rally.
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I recall a decade back Frank said in the news letter MGNOC had something around 1600 members. That number is surely less today. Draw your own conclusions.
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I recall a decade back Frank said in the news letter MGNOC had something around 1600 members. That number is surely less today. Draw your own conclusions.
Folks in this topic have placed the number of members at 10,000, and the dues at $30/yr. You're saying it's closer to 1600. So the (essentially one-way) revenue stream is somewhere between $48,000 and a $quarter million/yr. It's a good gig if you can get enough volunteers out to do your recruitment for you, especially if you don't use any of those 'dues' to promote the 'club'. Me, I don't care for the Kool-Aid.
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Folks in this topic have placed the number of members at 10,000, and the dues at $30/yr. You're saying it's closer to 1600. So the (essentially one-way) revenue stream is somewhere between $48,000 and a $quarter million/yr. It's a good gig if you can get enough volunteers out to do your recruitment for you, especially if you don't use any of those 'dues' to promote the 'club'. Me, I don't care for the Kool-Aid.
That "10,000 figure was from me in reference to the number of WG members after someone suggested that MGNOC had a higher membership than WG . Actually probably closer to 6,000 , which still dwarfs the MGNOC if the 1600 number is valid .
Dusty
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Wild Guzzi number is currently around 10,000. Growing every day.
If MGNOC is 2,000 I'd be surprised. I expect it's less.
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Wild Guzzi number is currently around 10,000. Growing every day.
If MGNOC is 2,000 I'd be surprised. I expect it's less.
::) Looks to me like it has between 20 or 30. :BEER:
Matt
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I met Frank in person one time. He saw my new Stelvio and ask if I was a MGNOC member. My answer was quick and to the point. I explained that I had been a member, but saw no benefit and felt that the forum was the future.
I have used the forum many times for rally dates and tech information. All of the information is current and offers many different views to solve a problem(s). I resect the knowledge level and the interest shown by the members of the forum.
While I do not expect anyone to work for no money, I respect the effort that is freely given here.
As far as Mr. Wedge, I respectfully ask him for any input to this post and to have a good life. This post is not a bashing of the MGNOC, but to gain insight as to how the make the Guzzi experience as good as possible.
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Wild Guzzi number is currently around 10,000. Growing every day.
If MGNOC is 2,000 I'd be surprised. I expect it's less.
Luap did tell me 10,000 after you told me 6,000 , Chet just gave me a blank look when the subject came up at 3AM during the monsoon in OK this year ;D Either way , that is damned amazing and shows that WG is healthy and yes growing everyday ;-T Might have something to do with the dues being voluntary and the variety of subjects that get discussed here on a daily basis . The instantaneous nature is also nice .
Dusty
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Wild Guzzi number is currently around 10,000. Growing every day.
If MGNOC is 2,000 I'd be surprised. I expect it's less.
Yeah, but what does that "10,000" really mean? It's an interactive discussion forum. THOUSANDS of those "members" have never posted, or posted once since they signed up. And how many of them are just freeloaders? That hardly counts, on the principle of "If you're not paying for it, you're not the customer. You're the product being sold."
It apparently bothers the crap out of some people that Frank Wedge and the MGNOC actually exist. How is it skin off of anyone's nose if they do? What, does your state withhold taxes from your paycheck to support MGNOC? I'm amazed that people think it has to be some sort of pissing or d!ck-measuring contest to see who the REAL Rulers Of The Guzzi World are.
I belong to both, support both, and are glad for what each one of them does.
Lannis
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I think the controversy starts when it is suggested that WG and the MGNOC should be merged and only MGNOC members should have access t0 WG , how does that grow the clan ??? Personally MGNOC is kind of a neutral thing , although 3 of the last 4 OK reps have been friends . The hard feelings seem to start when the inference is made that if one chooses to not "belong" they aren't "real" . As for the numbers , well, maybe there are only 50 or so loudmouths here (pointing the finger at myself) , but a much larger number read the forum everyday .
Dusty
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Lannis,
I think some people would like an "owners club" or "riders club" that operated as a not for profit, had unpaid elected officers, a treasury, and used bulk of the annual dues to help support an annual national event as well as the local ones. A club that holds open annual business meetings, etc., etc.
MGNOC is not that type of organization. Never has been. It's more of a mailing list that you subscribe to.
The opportunity is there, though, for someone who wants to get the ball rolling with a "real" club. "Moto Guzzi Riders Club" "MGRC". Whatever. It would be a lot of work and take years to build up. It would have to be progressive and tech savvy in order to attract younger, newer riders/members.
I know that I am not that someone. I don't really give a shite if there is an owners club, or not. It will not affect my Guzzi ownership experience either way.
Wild Guzzi is its own animal. Not a "club". Just an online forum. Not in competition with any clubs or other forums. It is what it is. Just an online place to shoot the bull and promote the brand.
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Yeah, but what does that "10,000" really mean? It's an interactive discussion forum. THOUSANDS of those "members" have never posted, or posted once since they signed up. And how many of them are just freeloaders? That hardly counts, on the principle of "If you're not paying for it, you're not the customer. You're the product being sold."
It apparently bothers the crap out of some people that Frank Wedge and the MGNOC actually exist. How is it skin off of anyone's nose if they do? What, does your state withhold taxes from your paycheck to support MGNOC? I'm amazed that people think it has to be some sort of pissing or d!ck-measuring contest to see who the REAL Rulers Of The Guzzi World are.
I belong to both, support both, and are glad for what each one of them does.
Lannis
Like OB's post above says, nobody's arguing Frank's right and the right of mgnoc to exist do their thing -- that's you inventing things again. In fact, the argument only starts when someone from the mgnoc starts it. What I as a WG member object to is that annual mgnoc attempt to co-opt WG and turn it into an extension of the 'club'. Frank has a website. If he can't or won't develop it to your liking, take it up with him, but don't try to make him king over here.
What I as a general member of forums object to is the pissants accusing me of 'freeloading' on this or any other site I might visit. To paraphrase your argument -- how is it any skin offa you nose who luap allows on his site? If he's not requiring dues, fees, or payment, who are YOU to pass judgement or make folks feel unwelcome based on not giving luap money? That's luap's prerogative -- and his job. I'm sure that if he had a problem with 'freeloading' visitors he'd fix the problem. As it is, the WG model is flourishing, and the mgnoc model is losing relevance. Yes, there is a reason for that. But bitching about it on WG is the same as publishing a rant about any business before trying to solve the problem privately. If folks want the mgnoc to be different than it is -- take it up with Frank.
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Who resents Frank for making a profit? He puts a lot of work into MGNOC but no one has to join if they do not want to. When I joined WG no one asked me for a penny yet it costs to keep WG running. If LUAP et. al. make a few bucks then so be it. But I offered up a few bucks to keep this online. It is fun and a great resource for all things Guzzi and and many other things. The only time it gets loopy is with gun threads..... ;D ;D ;D then all bets are off. ;)
And helmet law threads. ;-T I miss helmet law threads. ::( :BEER:
Matt
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So . . . if hundreds of mgnoc members don't have a computer and Frank has ceased to communicate in any other media but his website, how do all these phantom members stay in touch?
I've seen a few references to the huge membership of mgnoc compared to WG. Frank doesn't publish his active membership stats. How do you arrive at this conclusion?
To answer the OP directly -- The MGNOC is what FRANK wants it to be. Our opinion doesn't count. It's his business and his show. If Frank thought the 'club' needed new life, he'd be doing something to make it so -- and he's not. If he wanted his website to have a member forum it would be there. It's not. That's because these discussions would be happening there if a forum existed, and he doesn't want to hear about it.
But in my opinion, this is the wrong battle for the mgnoc faithful to be fighting. If mgnoc members are concerned about the life of the group now, just wait until Frank is no longer in the mix. With no club structure, no officers, no club treasury, no meetings, 'member' input not welcomed, and no plan for a successor, what happens to the 'club' then? I think it bites the dust in a heartbeat. So I think the battle should be to figure out what happens to the mgnoc post-Frank. No plan, no future for the club. It's that simple.
Once again, $0.02
Since you don't belong to the MGNOC and obviously hate Frank for whatever reason, I don't consider your opinion of his Guzzi club to have any validity. :-*
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I think the controversy starts when it is suggested that WG and the MGNOC should be merged and only MGNOC members should have access t0 WG , how does that grow the clan ??? Personally MGNOC is kind of a neutral thing , although 3 of the last 4 OK reps have been friends . The hard feelings seem to start when the inference is made that if one chooses to not "belong" they aren't "real" . As for the numbers , well, maybe there are only 50 or so loudmouths here (pointing the finger at myself) , but a much larger number read the forum everyday .
Dusty
I don't know where you come up with this idea someone thinks WG and the MGNOC should merge. Like I said earlier, they both serve different needs for Guzzi owners. They are related by MC brand and are co-joined for that reason without it having to be official in some way. A Guzzi rider can join whichever 1 they want and participate accordingly. There is no $ obligation really either way. If you don't feel like contributing $ to either effort, that's your decision. When you go to a NAR or MGNOC rally you pay for your participation when you get there, whether it's to a host or for your motel room, food, gas, etc.
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I don't know where you come up with this idea someone thinks WG and the MGNOC should merge. Like I said earlier, they both serve different needs for Guzzi owners. They are related by MC brand and are co-joined for that reason without it having to be official in some way. A Guzzi rider can join whichever 1 they want and participate accordingly. There is no $ obligation really either way.
It was suggested early on in the thread by someone I respect . Just seems an odd idea is all . I'll let RK respond to the other accusation ;) Notice , I've said nothing negative re Frank or the MGNOC .
Dusty
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Since you don't belong to the MGNOC and obviously hate Frank for whatever reason, I don't consider your opinion of his Guzzi club to have any validity. :-*
Your premise is flawed. ;)
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I don't know where you come up with this idea someone thinks WG and the MGNOC should merge. Like I said earlier, they both serve different needs for Guzzi owners. They are related by MC brand and are co-joined for that reason without it having to be official in some way. A Guzzi rider can join whichever 1 they want and participate accordingly. There is no $ obligation really either way. If you don't feel like contributing $ to either effort, that's your decision. When you go to a NAR or MGNOC rally you pay for your participation when you get there, whether it's to a host or for your motel room, food, gas, etc.
Wayne, we're on the same page here. :)
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I like both. Its a new paradigm, and WG fits. It is forums like this that are attractive to the new younger demographic. Every time you ride you have a chance to bring a new rider into the fold. NAR is also a good place to bring these same folks. Great group of people.
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I think that Frank missed the boat when the technology started to change. Back in the days when there was a Topica MG list he should have taken the lead and made the jump to what is now this forum, but that didn't happen. I believe time will sort out this situation.
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It was suggested early on in the thread by someone I respect . Just seems an odd idea is all . I'll let RK respond to the other accusation ;) Notice , I've said nothing negative re Frank or the MGNOC .
Dusty
That would be me. I'm not going to apologize however, some feeling should be kept to ones self. The "freeloaders" comment was out of line.
Looks like MGNOC is on Facebook. I know nothing about Facebook but I signed up out of curiosity. Son in law posts to Facebook and on a recent ride I would call home or email only to find everyone already knew were we were and with pictures. The younger crowd are all on Facebook. :BEER:
Matt
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Looks like MGNOC is on Facebook. I know nothing about Facebook but I signed up out of curiosity. Son in law posts to Facebook and on a recent ride I would call home or email only to find everyone already knew were we were and with pictures. The younger crowd are all on Facebook. :BEER:
Matt
Actually it's only geezers in the 30-50 year range (maybe some late 20-somethings) that really use FB anymore.
The younger crow teen-early 20s' have moved on. A little tweet and instagram, but other media too.
They look at FB as something for their "parents".
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You can tell it's winter; and today's only November 19! By March, people will either committing suicide or using a 12 gauge shotgun on their computers. :winer
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Yeah, but what does that "10,000" really mean? It's an interactive discussion forum. THOUSANDS of those "members" have never posted, or posted once since they signed up. And how many of them are just freeloaders?
...
Lannis
I'm confused, can you define a freeloader? Would that be anyone without a "Doard Bonor" tag under their name? Would that include the likes of pauldaytona who brought us guzzidiag?
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Like OB's post above says, nobody's arguing Frank's right and the right of mgnoc to exist do their thing -- that's you inventing things again. In fact, the argument only starts when someone from the mgnoc starts it. What I as a WG member object to is that annual mgnoc attempt to co-opt WG and turn it into an extension of the 'club'. Frank has a website. If he can't or won't develop it to your liking, take it up with him, but don't try to make him king over here.
What I as a general member of forums object to is the pissants accusing me of 'freeloading' on this or any other site I might visit. To paraphrase your argument -- how is it any skin offa you nose who luap allows on his site? If he's not requiring dues, fees, or payment, who are YOU to pass judgement or make folks feel unwelcome based on not giving luap money? That's luap's prerogative -- and his job. I'm sure that if he had a problem with 'freeloading' visitors he'd fix the problem. As it is, the WG model is flourishing, and the mgnoc model is losing relevance. Yes, there is a reason for that. But bitching about it on WG is the same as publishing a rant about any business before trying to solve the problem privately. If folks want the mgnoc to be different than it is -- take it up with Frank.
As usual, there are SO many emotional, invented, completely baseless assumptions in your response rant that I don't think I have time or energy to try to respond to them all. It wouldn't do any good anyway.
None of it's any skin off my nose. As I said (and as you, again, didn't read), I participate fully in both venues, I contribute to both venues because I believe they both have a place and they both help, and I'm just amazed that some folks have to "put down" one or the other, you being a perfect (if I can use that word) example. Unlike dilligaf, though, I'll stick by my "freeloader" comment. Luap can do it how he wants; just like MGNOC is Frank's, WG is Luap's, and his business model doesn't have to be the same. I support both.
Lannis
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I'm confused, can you define a freeloader? Would that be anyone without a "Doard Bonor" tag under their name? Would that include the likes of pauldaytona who brought us guzzidiag?
A "freeloader" would be someone who takes advantage of the Forum, but who doesn't volunteer to help support it.
I have no idea who those people are, other than there are some out there (I guess, because people are defending them). I don't know who it includes. I'm pretty sure I know who it doesn't include.
I wouldn't use the criteria or name the names that you're doing. That's above my pay level.
Lannis
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A "freeloader" would be someone who takes advantage of the Forum, but who doesn't volunteer to help support it.
Lannis
There are no "freeloaders" here. This is a free forum. All are welcome.
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That would be me. I'm not going to apologize however, some feeling should be kept to ones self. The "freeloaders" comment was out of line.
Looks like MGNOC is on Facebook. I know nothing about Facebook but I signed up out of curiosity. Son in law posts to Facebook and on a recent ride I would call home or email only to find everyone already knew were we were and with pictures. The younger crowd are all on Facebook. :BEER:
Matt
As stated,"someone I respect" . Just a small difference in philosophy :BEER:
Dusty
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With all due respect to Frank Wedge and his contributions toward the brand's survival in the 1970's, my calendar says it is now 2014. The question is what can be done today to bring new life to the MGNOC. If your answer is that there is no problem, so nothing needs to be done, then your nostalgic looks to the past or satisfaction with the status quo ante make some sense; otherwise, they do nothing to answer this question.
As I see it, the way to address this question is with another question:
If you were designing a national club for the marque, what would it look like?
Once we have a comprehensive list of what we want in such a club, it would fall to either Frank Wedge to change the MGNOC to incorporate our desires, or to some of us to form a new club, to make the dream a reality. (Or neither happens, and this topic remains nothing more than a semi-regular exercise in frustration.)
I do not presume to have such a comprehensive list of wants and desires, but I have a few ideas. Maybe you disagree with some or all of my ideas; maybe you have your own list -- feel free to post it here. At least we can get the ball rolling. I suggest that once we have such a list, someone close to Frank presents it to him to see if he has any interest in changing the MGNOC to accommodate our desires. If no changes occur, we can consider the alternatives of either starting an independent club or doing nothing.
So, with the caveat that each and every sentence below should be read as beginning with the phrase "in my opinion," here is my list:
1. The name of the club should not be "Moto Guzzi National Owner's Club" (MGNOC). What's in a name, you ask? Plenty. It's how the world recognizes who you are as a group, and what you are about. I propose: Moto Guzzi Motorcycle Club of North America (MGMCNA). This name is superior to "Moto Guzzi National Owner's Club" for several reasons:
a. Our Canadian friends also ride Moto Guzzi motorcycles and participate in group activities. (They have hosted a “national” rally!) The club name should include “North America” rather than “National.” Indeed, the name “National” is itself a misnomer, as every nation on Earth can claim a “national” organization.
b. The name should include the word “motorcycle.” Don’t laugh. You may know that Moto Guzzi makes motorcycles, but I bet the majority of people (maybe even the majority of motorcyclists) do not.
c. Calling the group an “owner’s club” is unnecessarily exclusionary, as it implies that you have to presently own a Moto Guzzi to be a member of the group. We should signal that the group welcomes past, present and future owners, friends of owners, and the Moto Guzzi curious. Either call it an “enthusiasts” club, or just drop the reference to “owners.”
2. The MGMCNA should be organized as a not-for-profit, with a board of directors elected at regular intervals and officers either elected or appointed for distinct terms. Officers should include regional representatives for distinct regions of North America, as well as state (province) representatives serving under them, in more populous areas.
3. There should be annual dues set by the board of directors, and the board should also pursue opportunities for advertising revenue from businesses of interest to motorcyclists generally and Moto Guzzi enthusiasts in particular. Rally fees should be as decided by the officers involved in organizing the particular rally, with oversight of the board. Fees should be two-tiered: members and non-members. Non-members should always be welcome to club events, but if a fee is charged, it should be discounted for members in order to drive membership. There also needs to be complete fiscal transparency, with annual reports to the membership, and the majority if not all revenue going toward events, membership and marketing activities.
4. Participation should be through volunteerism, with the MGMCNA providing reimbursement of volunteers’ out-of-pocket expenses subject to oversight and approval by the board. If finances allow and the membership agrees, small stipend for board members and other volunteers should be considered. Corporate sponsorship and advertising opportunities should include having them provide samples of their products and services that can be distributed to volunteers as “thank you” gifts as well as used as door prizes and such at rallies and other gatherings. If the MGMCNA becomes large enough and active enough to justify a professional salaried director, either full-time or part-time, the board should consider hiring such a person to assist the volunteers.
5. Membership dues should provide tangible benefits, such as:
a. An online forum and newsletter covering a variety of topics of interest to the members. The newsletter should be a professional-looking piece with technical, travel, touring, product news and rumors, racing news, bike show reports, and other information. Members should be encouraged to contribute articles and rewarded with free gear, tools, or similar items provided by sponsors. The newsletter would be online, but one possible goal would be to grow it into a professionally produced monthly print magazine, with a possible reach into “lifestyle” subjects of interest to motorcyclists. (I am thinking of publications like BMW Magazine and Red Bull’s The Red Bulletin.)
b. Wide presence on social media – Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, Instagram, etc.
c. Access to membership for networking, road trip assistance, lend-a-couch, etc.
d. Offering discounted products and services of interest to the membership: roadside assistance plans, various forms of insurance, extended warranties, travel planning and tours, track days, riding schools, etc.
e. A membership kit, with an ID card (with useful information), an MGMCNA pin, patch, and stickers, maybe a few other pieces of MGMCNA logo’d and Moto Guzzi logo’d swag, as well as a catalogue of MGMCNA merchandise available for purchase.
f. Rally and other meeting planning and participation, including advertising and financial support for such activities. The calendar of such activities should be packed with things to do, in all parts of North America. These can be Moto Guzzi-centric events (where all brands are welcome) or motorcycle as well as other events where an organized Moto Guzzi presence would enhance the experience (e.g., Moto GP and SBK race weekends, Barber and Mid-Ohio Vintage Days, Stugis Black Hills Rally, Daytona Bike Week, Laconia Bike Week).
6. The MGMCNA should work in close partnership with representatives of Moto Guzzi, Piaggio’s North American operations, and factory-authorized Moto Guzzi dealers in North America. Local dealers and regional factory representatives should work with regional and state (province) MGMCNA representatives in presenting open houses, rallies, outings, and other opportunities to gather together and showcase the brand. MGMCNA should be an independent not-for-profit, rather than a captive owner’s club, but many of the things that have made the Harley Owners Group (HOG) so successful should be emulated. One thing that would drive membership and help sustain the organization is a deal that would have one free year of MGMCNA membership included with every purchase of a new Moto Guzzi motorcycle in North America (even better if Piaggio subsidizes all or a portion of the first year’s dues). Another would be automatic annual membership renewal tied to the member’s credit card or bank account. Now, imagine combining the two: A buyer of a new Moto Guzzi is offered one year’s free membership in the MGMCNA, but in the process of signing up for the deal, they have to agree to automatic dues payment after the first year (cancellable by the member at any time, of course).
Again, the above are simply my thoughts on the subject. I am putting them out here for discussion, including constructive criticism, so, have at it.
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There are no "freeloaders" here. This is a free forum. All are welcome.
I know. That's the way it's set up, and Luap is happy to run the forum using his own money, money from clicks on ads, and money volunteered from others. I'm very glad he is willing to do that, regardless of what direction his cash flow is in.
I guess I look at it sort of like when a potluck dinner is served, where you either bring a covered dish or drop a little donation into the jar. The folks sponsoring it don't require a donation, don't police it, and are happy to serve everyone who comes up. I (just me) happen to think it's not quite right when someone comes and eats, and talks, and hangs around having dessert, and has a good time ... and doesn't bring anything at all, and acts like access to dinner and everything associated with it is his "due" somehow, even though they KNOW it is costing someone money.
Just my opinion.
Lannis
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With all due respect to Frank Wedge and his contributions toward the brand's survival in the 1970's, my calendar says it is now 2014. The question is what can be done today to bring new life to the MGNOC. If your answer is that there is no problem, so nothing needs to be done, then your nostalgic looks to the past or satisfaction with the status quo ante make some sense; otherwise, they do nothing to answer this question.
As I see it, the way to address this question is with another question:
If you were designing a national club for the marque, what would it look like?
Once we have a comprehensive list of what we want in such a club, it would fall to either Frank Wedge to change the MGNOC to incorporate our desires, or to some of us to form a new club, to make the dream a reality. (Or neither happens, and this topic remains nothing more than a semi-regular exercise in frustration.)
I do not presume to have such a comprehensive list of wants and desires, but I have a few ideas. Maybe you disagree with some or all of my ideas; maybe you have your own list -- feel free to post it here. At least we can get the ball rolling. I suggest that once we have such a list, someone close to Frank presents it to him to see if he has any interest in changing the MGNOC to accommodate our desires. If no changes occur, we can consider the alternatives of either starting an independent club or doing nothing.
So, with the caveat that each and every sentence below should be read as beginning with the phrase "in my opinion," here is my list:
1. The club name of the club should not be "Moto Guzzi National Owner's Club" (MGNOC). What's in a name, you ask? Plenty. It's how the world recognizes who you are as a group, and what you are about. I propose: Moto Guzzi Motorcycle Club of North America (MGMCNA). This name is superior to "Moto Guzzi National Owner's Club" for several reasons:
a. Our Canadian friends also ride Moto Guzzi motorcycles and participate in group activities. (They have hosted a “national” rally!) The club name should include “North America” rather than “National.” Indeed, the name “National” is itself a misnomer, as every nation on Earth can claim a “national” organization.
b. The name should include the word “motorcycle.” Don’t laugh. You may know that Moto Guzzi makes motorcycles, but I bet the majority of people (maybe even the majority of motorcyclists) do not.
c. Calling the group an “owner’s club” is unnecessarily exclusionary, as it implies that you have to presently own a Moto Guzzi to be a member of the group. We should signal that the group welcomes past, present and future owners, friends of owners, and the Moto Guzzi curious. Either call it an “enthusiasts” club, or just drop the reference to “owners.”
2. The MGMCNA should be organized as a not-for-profit, with a board of directors elected at regular intervals and officers either elected or appointed for distinct terms. Officers should include regional representatives for distinct regions of North America, as well as state (province) representatives serving under them, in more populous areas.
3. There should be annual dues set by the board of directors, and the board should also pursue opportunities for advertising revenue from businesses of interest to motorcyclists generally and Moto Guzzi enthusiasts in particular. Rally fees should be as decided by the officers involved in organizing the particular rally, with oversight of the board. Fees should be two-tiered: members and non-members. Non-members should always be welcome to club events, but if a fee is charged, it should be discounted for members in order to drive membership. There also needs to be complete fiscal transparency, with annual reports to the membership, and the majority if not all revenue going toward events, membership and marketing activities.
4. Participation should be through volunteerism, with the MGMCNA providing reimbursement of volunteers’ out-of-pocket expenses subject to oversight and approval by the board. If finances allow and the membership agrees, small stipend for board members and other volunteers should be considered. Corporate sponsorship and advertising opportunities should include having them provide samples of their products and services that can be distributed to volunteers as “thank you” gifts as well as used as door prizes and such at rallies and other gatherings. If the MGMCNA becomes large enough and active enough to justify a professional salaried director, either full-time or part-time, the board should consider hiring such a person to assist the volunteers.
5. Membership dues should provide tangible benefits, such as:
a. An online forum and newsletter covering a variety of topics of interest to the members. The newsletter should be a professional-looking piece with technical, travel, touring, product news and rumors, racing news, bike show reports, and other information. Members should be encouraged to contribute articles and rewarded with free gear, tools, or similar items provided by sponsors. The newsletter would be online, but one possible goal would be to grow it into a professionally produced monthly print magazine, with a possible reach into “lifestyle” subjects of interest to motorcyclists. (I am thinking of publications like BMW Magazine and Red Bull’s The Red Bulletin.)
b. Wide presence on social media – Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, Instagram, etc.
c. Access to membership for networking, road trip assistance, lend-a-couch, etc.
d. Offering discounted products and services of interest to the membership: roadside assistance plans, various forms of insurance, extended warranties, travel planning and tours, track days, riding schools, etc.
e. A membership kit, with an ID card (with useful information), an MGMCNA pin, patch, and stickers, maybe a few other pieces of MGMCNA logo’d and Moto Guzzi logo’d swag, as well as a catalogue of MGMCNA merchandise available for purchase.
f. Rally and other meeting planning and participation, including advertising and financial support for such activities. The calendar of such activities should be packed with things to do, in all parts of North America. These can be Moto Guzzi-centric events (where all brands are welcome) or motorcycle as well as other events where an organized Moto Guzzi presence would enhance the experience (e.g., Moto GP and SBK race weekends, Barber and Mid-Ohio Vintage Days, Stugis Black Hills Rally, Daytona Bike Week, Laconia Bike Week).
6. The MGMCNA should work in close partnership with representatives of Moto Guzzi, Piaggio’s North American operations, and factory-authorized Moto Guzzi dealers in North America. Local dealers and regional factory representatives should work with regional and state (province) MGMCNA representatives in presenting open houses, rallies, outings, and other opportunities to gather together and showcase the brand. MGMCNA should be an independent not-for-profit, rather than a captive owner’s club, but many of the things that have made the Harley Owners Group (HOG) so successful should be emulated. One thing that would drive membership and help sustain the organization is a deal that would have one free year of MGMCNA membership included with every purchase of a new Moto Guzzi motorcycle in North America (even better if Piaggio subsidizes all or a portion of the first year’s dues). Another would be automatic annual membership renewal tied to the member’s credit card or bank account. Now, imagine combining the two: A buyer of a new Moto Guzzi is offered one year’s free membership in the MGMCNA, but in the process of signing up for the deal, they have to agree to automatic dues payment after the first year (cancellable by the member at any time, of course).
Again, the above are simply my thoughts on the subject. I am putting them out here for discussion, including constructive criticism, so, have at it.
;-T
Dean
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With all due respect to Frank Wedge and his contributions toward the brand's survival in the 1970's, my calendar says it is now 2014. The question is what can be done today to bring new life to the MGNOC. If your answer is that there is no problem, so nothing needs to be done, then your nostalgic looks to the past or satisfaction with the status quo ante make some sense; otherwise, they do nothing to answer this question.
As I see it, the way to address this question is with another question:
If you were designing a national club for the marque, what would it look like?
Once we have a comprehensive list of what we want in such a club, it would fall to either Frank Wedge to change the MGNOC to incorporate our desires, or to some of us to form a new club, to make the dream a reality. (Or neither happens, and this topic remains nothing more than a semi-regular exercise in frustration.)
I do not presume to have such a comprehensive list of wants and desires, but I have a few ideas. Maybe you disagree with some or all of my ideas; maybe you have your own list -- feel free to post it here. At least we can get the ball rolling. I suggest that once we have such a list, someone close to Frank presents it to him to see if he has any interest in changing the MGNOC to accommodate our desires. If no changes occur, we can consider the alternatives of either starting an independent club or doing nothing.
So, with the caveat that each and every sentence below should be read as beginning with the phrase "in my opinion," here is my list:
1. The club name of the club should not be "Moto Guzzi National Owner's Club" (MGNOC). What's in a name, you ask? Plenty. It's how the world recognizes who you are as a group, and what you are about. I propose: Moto Guzzi Motorcycle Club of North America (MGMCNA). This name is superior to "Moto Guzzi National Owner's Club" for several reasons:
a. Our Canadian friends also ride Moto Guzzi motorcycles and participate in group activities. (They have hosted a “national” rally!) The club name should include “North America” rather than “National.” Indeed, the name “National” is itself a misnomer, as every nation on Earth can claim a “national” organization.
b. The name should include the word “motorcycle.” Don’t laugh. You may know that Moto Guzzi makes motorcycles, but I bet the majority of people (maybe even the majority of motorcyclists) do not.
c. Calling the group an “owner’s club” is unnecessarily exclusionary, as it implies that you have to presently own a Moto Guzzi to be a member of the group. We should signal that the group welcomes past, present and future owners, friends of owners, and the Moto Guzzi curious. Either call it an “enthusiasts” club, or just drop the reference to “owners.”
2. The MGMCNA should be organized as a not-for-profit, with a board of directors elected at regular intervals and officers either elected or appointed for distinct terms. Officers should include regional representatives for distinct regions of North America, as well as state (province) representatives serving under them, in more populous areas.
3. There should be annual dues set by the board of directors, and the board should also pursue opportunities for advertising revenue from businesses of interest to motorcyclists generally and Moto Guzzi enthusiasts in particular. Rally fees should be as decided by the officers involved in organizing the particular rally, with oversight of the board. Fees should be two-tiered: members and non-members. Non-members should always be welcome to club events, but if a fee is charged, it should be discounted for members in order to drive membership. There also needs to be complete fiscal transparency, with annual reports to the membership, and the majority if not all revenue going toward events, membership and marketing activities.
4. Participation should be through volunteerism, with the MGMCNA providing reimbursement of volunteers’ out-of-pocket expenses subject to oversight and approval by the board. If finances allow and the membership agrees, small stipend for board members and other volunteers should be considered. Corporate sponsorship and advertising opportunities should include having them provide samples of their products and services that can be distributed to volunteers as “thank you” gifts as well as used as door prizes and such at rallies and other gatherings. If the MGMCNA becomes large enough and active enough to justify a professional salaried director, either full-time or part-time, the board should consider hiring such a person to assist the volunteers.
5. Membership dues should provide tangible benefits, such as:
a. An online forum and newsletter covering a variety of topics of interest to the members. The newsletter should be a professional-looking piece with technical, travel, touring, product news and rumors, racing news, bike show reports, and other information. Members should be encouraged to contribute articles and rewarded with free gear, tools, or similar items provided by sponsors. The newsletter would be online, but one possible goal would be to grow it into a professionally produced monthly print magazine, with a possible reach into “lifestyle” subjects of interest to motorcyclists. (I am thinking of publications like BMW Magazine and Red Bull’s The Red Bulletin.)
b. Wide presence on social media – Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, Instagram, etc.
c. Access to membership for networking, road trip assistance, lend-a-couch, etc.
d. Offering discounted products and services of interest to the membership: roadside assistance plans, various forms of insurance, extended warranties, travel planning and tours, track days, riding schools, etc.
e. A membership kit, with an ID card (with useful information), an MGMCNA pin, patch, and stickers, maybe a few other pieces of MGMCNA logo’d and Moto Guzzi logo’d swag, as well as a catalogue of MGMCNA merchandise available for purchase.
f. Rally and other meeting planning and participation, including advertising and financial support for such activities. The calendar of such activities should be packed with things to do, in all parts of North America. These can be Moto Guzzi-centric events (where all brands are welcome) or motorcycle as well as other events where an organized Moto Guzzi presence would enhance the experience (e.g., Moto GP and SBK race weekends, Barber and Mid-Ohio Vintage Days, Stugis Black Hills Rally, Daytona Bike Week, Laconia Bike Week).
6. The MGMCNA should work in close partnership with representatives of Moto Guzzi, Piaggio’s North American operations, and factory-authorized Moto Guzzi dealers in North America. Local dealers and regional factory representatives should work with regional and state (province) MGMCNA representatives in presenting open houses, rallies, outings, and other opportunities to gather together and showcase the brand. MGMCNA should be an independent not-for-profit, rather than a captive owner’s club, but many of the things that have made the Harley Owners Group (HOG) so successful should be emulated. One thing that would drive membership and help sustain the organization is a deal that would have one free year of MGMCNA membership included with every purchase of a new Moto Guzzi motorcycle in North America (even better if Piaggio subsidizes all or a portion of the first year’s dues). Another would be automatic annual membership renewal tied to the member’s credit card or bank account. Now, imagine combining the two: A buyer of a new Moto Guzzi is offered one year’s free membership in the MGMCNA, but in the process of signing up for the deal, they have to agree to automatic dues payment after the first year (cancellable by the member at any time, of course).
Again, the above are simply my thoughts on the subject. I am putting them out here for discussion, including constructive criticism, so, have at it.
You and Dean are hereby elected by consensus to get this set up; you're the President and Dean is head of the Constitution and Bylaws Committee.
Go for it!! I'll be the first to sign up as a Life Member.
Lannis
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You and Dean are hereby elected by consensus to get this set up; you're the President and Dean is head of the Constitution and Bylaws Committee.
Go for it!! I'll be the first to sign up as a Life Member.
Lannis
:+1 :+1
Mark
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You and Dean are hereby elected by consensus to get this set up; you're the President and Dean is head of the Constitution and Bylaws Committee.
Go for it!! I'll be the first to sign up as a Life Member.
Lannis
Yeh but you need a project these days while I sit here reading Frenglish...
The above vision is a good one but it will never be MGNOC. Maybe that's what we give the few young riders we have, a mission to build a new club. And as Lannis (or the Voice in the Field of Dreams) says, "build it..."
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You and Dean are hereby elected by consensus to get this set up; you're the President and Dean is head of the Constitution and Bylaws Committee.
Go for it!! I'll be the first to sign up as a Life Member.
Lannis
Funny, but I am not unopposed to doing some of the heavy lifting. While I am glad that my suggestions are (so far) getting a positive reception, I think we are still a ways off from implementing any of this.
First, I think there needs to be more discussion and the vetting of more ideas on this subject.
Second, I don't want to incite a war among what might be perceived as pro and anti- Frank Wedge factions. Splitting an already small group into two opposing factions is a good way to kill off both. If there is anything that Frank's service to the Guzzisti entitles him to, I think it's an opportunity to consider and respond to reasonable requests that the MGNOC evolve into the group that the majority of active North American Moto Guzzi enthusiasts want to see. (Whether that is a real possibility or a pipe dream, I do not know; I do not know Frank personally so I cannot say if he would perceive something like this as a threat or an opportunity.) I also think it will help obtain factory support for whatever group emerges if there is only one, with everyone concerned united behind it.
Oh, and I thought of one other organizational goal of the MGMCNA -- public service. Some events could have a charitable giving component, or involve a public education opportunity, or some other way of giving back to the community, whether local or more widely based, and whether it relates to motorcyclists in need specifically or some other deserving population.
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Hey Dean do you still have that US charter piaggio or Aprilia sent you for the World Club? ;)
Just a thought but wouldn't it be great if the factory and dealers actually supported a club and the club supported local chapters and members with events. No that would never work, look at the failures HOG and RAT are.
But i should be grateful. Evidently without MGNOC I'd have a Speed Triple and Tbird in the garage instead of the Stone and Centauro. :bow
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Hey Dean do you still have that US charter piaggio or Aprilia sent you for the World Club? ;)
Just a thought but wouldn't it be great if the factory and dealers actually supported a club and the club supported local chapters and members with events. No that would never work, look at the failures HOG and RAT are.
But i should be grateful. Evidently without MGNOC I'd have a Speed Triple and Tbird in the garage instead of the Stone and Centauro. :bow
No Jim, I trashed that after Frank told me to stuff it.
Dean
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So all the people are waiting for someone else to create a new Guzzi owners club.
Typical.
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So all the people are waiting for someone else to create a new Guzzi owners club.
Typical.
Well, go on then! 8)
Or are you waiting too? ;)
I'm not volunteering because I'm perfectly happy with the way things are. I'm not complaining, and I don't have any suggestions.
But is someone else moves forward with an idea to support the sport and hobby of Moto Guzzis, I'm here to support it ...
Lannis
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The OP stated: "It appears as though the membership of the group is growing smaller and less active".
Not from my viewpoint. A question previously asked was "what group". Draw a 500 mile radius from my house and, with the exception of the winter months, there is a Moto Guzzi rally, starting with the FL rally, every month. When you consider that Swamp Scooters and Coon Bottom started as a joint effort of both BMW and Moto Guzzi riders, the first rally for 2015 will be in February and the last will be in November. I was riding in New England so I missed the GA rally this year at TWO. And I also missed the New England rallies. Wish I could have worked them into our schedule. The VA and NC rallies are, IMHO, about as good as I could want(I don't think we had any music at the VA rally). But then, I enjoy going to the Dragon and just hanging out. I guess I'm easy. ;-T
There are no "freeloaders" here. This is a free forum. All are welcome.
Understood. And that is why my comment was out of line. I do not want WG or MGNOC to go away. That is why I pay my yearly dues to one and contribute to the other. :BEER:
Matt
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This MGMCNA is a non starter because there aren't enough Guzzi owners around to support it. Your concept is top heavy. It would be like the BMW, Honda, Harley clubs, something I am not interested in being part of. Besides, Moto Guzzi would not support it(no $). As it is MG does sometimes attend some MGNOC National rallies and tune bikes. Part of what I like about the MGNOC rallies is their simplicity.
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This MGMCNA is a non starter because there aren't enough Guzzi owners around to support it. It would be like the BMW, Honda, Harley clubs, something I am not interested in being part of. Besides, Moto Guzzi would not support it(no $). As it is MG does sometimes attend some MGNOC National rallies and tune bikes. Part of what I like about the MGNOC rallies is their simplicity.
You sure? I hear that there are 10,000 + active Guzzi enthusiasts on this very list! Bound to be able to support a club with those kinds of numbers.
And even if the dues are $0, we can make it up on volume!! :D :D
Lannis
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1. The name of the club should not be "Moto Guzzi National Owner's Club" (MGNOC). What's in a name, you ask? Plenty. It's how the world recognizes who you are as a group, and what you are about. I propose: Moto Guzzi Motorcycle Club of North America (MGMCNA).
Count me in!!!
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I know. That's the way it's set up, and Luap is happy to run the forum using his own money, money from clicks on ads, and money volunteered from others. I'm very glad he is willing to do that, regardless of what direction his cash flow is in.
I guess I look at it sort of like when a potluck dinner is served, where you either bring a covered dish or drop a little donation into the jar. The folks sponsoring it don't require a donation, don't police it, and are happy to serve everyone who comes up. I (just me) happen to think it's not quite right when someone comes and eats, and talks, and hangs around having dessert, and has a good time ... and doesn't bring anything at all, and acts like access to dinner and everything associated with it is his "due" somehow, even though they KNOW it is costing someone money.
Just my opinion.
Lannis
Just curious -- when was the last time you supplied dinner for an entire rally?
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Just curious -- when was the last time you supplied dinner for an entire rally?
Well, I've SUPPLIED dinner for an entire rally (80 to 130 people) about 5 times, either chili or beef stew, with bread, sides, cookies, etc at the Virginia rally. Went out and bought the ingredients, prepared them, took them to the rally, then used the rally's stew pots and gas to cook it, then everyone helped serve it up. Always worked very well. The rallymaster reimbursed me for actual grocery costs, varied from $150 to about $280 depending on the size and what we were having, from the rally fees that the attendees paid.
I'm on pins and needles trying to figure out the point of the question. Something nefarious, no doubt.
Lannis
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Well, I've SUPPLIED dinner for an entire rally (80 to 130 people) about 5 times, either chili or beef stew, with bread, sides, cookies, etc at the Virginia rally. Went out and bought the ingredients, prepared them, took them to the rally, then used the rally's stew pots and gas to cook it, then everyone helped serve it up. Always worked very well. The rallymaster reimbursed me for actual grocery costs, varied from $150 to about $280 depending on the size and what we were having, from the rally fees that the attendees paid.
I'm on pins and needles trying to figure out the point of the question. Something nefarious, no doubt.
Lannis
Nothing nefarious. Just trying to understand what degree of participation raises one from freeloading status to worthy human. My confusion comes because without knowing anything about my participation in anything anywhere, some "know" me and have strongly implied that I'm a freeloader -- even though I don't meet their definition of same.
Maybe it would be easier to give us the Lannis-approved program for non-freeloading in the guzzi environment?
YCRN -- Nice outline. You put some thought into that. ;-T
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Nothing nefarious. Just trying to understand what degree of participation raises one from freeloading status to worthy human. My confusion comes because without knowing anything about my participation in anything anywhere, some "know" me and have strongly implied that I'm a freeloader -- even though I don't meet their definition of same.
I wouldn't imply ANYthing. I just let people's consciences operate. If it's not them I'm describing, they've got nothing to resent ... !
YCRN -- Nice outline. You put some thought into that. ;-T
Nope, just typed it quick. When it's the truth, and you don't have to worry about which story you told last, you don't HAVE to think about it, just tell it ... ;D When 200 people have eaten your cooking, it's hard to tell porkies about it ...
Lannis
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Lannis, I think that last line from rodekyll was directed to me. Yes, RK, I have been thinking and tinkering with a draft of that message of over the past few days.
That aside -- Lannis, I would love for you to make chili for an MGMCNA rally.
I hope more people express an opinion on my suggestions. I would not want to lead the way on this, only to turn around and see there is nobody behind me. If I get enough positive feedback, I am willing to explore this, further.
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I have to admit, this thread is actually quite humorous, and probably could take place around a campfire at one of the rallies, or even a non-rally rally, and I suspect would keep most people up past 9 pm....there wouldn't be much snoring going on with the back and forth here. :) Keep up the entertainment guys!
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Lannis, I think that last line from rodekyll was directed to me. Yes, RK, I have been thinking and tinkering with a draft of that message of over the past few days.
I guess I thought it was yet another of the text-driven acronyms like ROTFLMAO or YMMV. My guess, given the context, for YCRN was "You Common Retarded Noodnik", so I thought it might be for me.
Your outline WAS well thought out though. It sounds like a plan.
Lannis
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I guess I thought it was yet another of the text-driven acronyms like ROTFLMAO or YMMV. My guess, given the context, for YCRN was "You Common Retarded Noodnik", so I thought it might be for me.
Your outline WAS well thought out though. It sounds like a plan.
Lannis
??? You can better than that.
And if t were me I'd given you a YMWAHAYFSOE
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With all due respect to Frank Wedge and his contributions toward the brand's survival in the 1970's, my calendar says it is now 2014. The question is what can be done today to bring new life to the MGNOC. If your answer is that there is no problem, so nothing needs to be done, then your nostalgic looks to the past or satisfaction with the status quo ante make some sense; otherwise, they do nothing to answer this question.
As I see it, the way to address this question is with another question:
If you were designing a national club for the marque, what would it look like?
Once we have a comprehensive list of what we want in such a club, it would fall to either Frank Wedge to change the MGNOC to incorporate our desires, or to some of us to form a new club, to make the dream a reality. (Or neither happens, and this topic remains nothing more than a semi-regular exercise in frustration.)
I do not presume to have such a comprehensive list of wants and desires, but I have a few ideas. Maybe you disagree with some or all of my ideas; maybe you have your own list -- feel free to post it here. At least we can get the ball rolling. I suggest that once we have such a list, someone close to Frank presents it to him to see if he has any interest in changing the MGNOC to accommodate our desires. If no changes occur, we can consider the alternatives of either starting an independent club or doing nothing.
So, with the caveat that each and every sentence below should be read as beginning with the phrase "in my opinion," here is my list:
1. The name of the club should not be "Moto Guzzi National Owner's Club" (MGNOC). What's in a name, you ask? Plenty. It's how the world recognizes who you are as a group, and what you are about. I propose: Moto Guzzi Motorcycle Club of North America (MGMCNA). This name is superior to "Moto Guzzi National Owner's Club" for several reasons:
a. Our Canadian friends also ride Moto Guzzi motorcycles and participate in group activities. (They have hosted a “national” rally!) The club name should include “North America” rather than “National.” Indeed, the name “National” is itself a misnomer, as every nation on Earth can claim a “national” organization.
b. The name should include the word “motorcycle.” Don’t laugh. You may know that Moto Guzzi makes motorcycles, but I bet the majority of people (maybe even the majority of motorcyclists) do not.
c. Calling the group an “owner’s club” is unnecessarily exclusionary, as it implies that you have to presently own a Moto Guzzi to be a member of the group. We should signal that the group welcomes past, present and future owners, friends of owners, and the Moto Guzzi curious. Either call it an “enthusiasts” club, or just drop the reference to “owners.”
2. The MGMCNA should be organized as a not-for-profit, with a board of directors elected at regular intervals and officers either elected or appointed for distinct terms. Officers should include regional representatives for distinct regions of North America, as well as state (province) representatives serving under them, in more populous areas.
3. There should be annual dues set by the board of directors, and the board should also pursue opportunities for advertising revenue from businesses of interest to motorcyclists generally and Moto Guzzi enthusiasts in particular. Rally fees should be as decided by the officers involved in organizing the particular rally, with oversight of the board. Fees should be two-tiered: members and non-members. Non-members should always be welcome to club events, but if a fee is charged, it should be discounted for members in order to drive membership. There also needs to be complete fiscal transparency, with annual reports to the membership, and the majority if not all revenue going toward events, membership and marketing activities.
4. Participation should be through volunteerism, with the MGMCNA providing reimbursement of volunteers’ out-of-pocket expenses subject to oversight and approval by the board. If finances allow and the membership agrees, small stipend for board members and other volunteers should be considered. Corporate sponsorship and advertising opportunities should include having them provide samples of their products and services that can be distributed to volunteers as “thank you” gifts as well as used as door prizes and such at rallies and other gatherings. If the MGMCNA becomes large enough and active enough to justify a professional salaried director, either full-time or part-time, the board should consider hiring such a person to assist the volunteers.
5. Membership dues should provide tangible benefits, such as:
a. An online forum and newsletter covering a variety of topics of interest to the members. The newsletter should be a professional-looking piece with technical, travel, touring, product news and rumors, racing news, bike show reports, and other information. Members should be encouraged to contribute articles and rewarded with free gear, tools, or similar items provided by sponsors. The newsletter would be online, but one possible goal would be to grow it into a professionally produced monthly print magazine, with a possible reach into “lifestyle” subjects of interest to motorcyclists. (I am thinking of publications like BMW Magazine and Red Bull’s The Red Bulletin.)
b. Wide presence on social media – Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, Instagram, etc.
c. Access to membership for networking, road trip assistance, lend-a-couch, etc.
d. Offering discounted products and services of interest to the membership: roadside assistance plans, various forms of insurance, extended warranties, travel planning and tours, track days, riding schools, etc.
e. A membership kit, with an ID card (with useful information), an MGMCNA pin, patch, and stickers, maybe a few other pieces of MGMCNA logo’d and Moto Guzzi logo’d swag, as well as a catalogue of MGMCNA merchandise available for purchase.
f. Rally and other meeting planning and participation, including advertising and financial support for such activities. The calendar of such activities should be packed with things to do, in all parts of North America. These can be Moto Guzzi-centric events (where all brands are welcome) or motorcycle as well as other events where an organized Moto Guzzi presence would enhance the experience (e.g., Moto GP and SBK race weekends, Barber and Mid-Ohio Vintage Days, Stugis Black Hills Rally, Daytona Bike Week, Laconia Bike Week).
6. The MGMCNA should work in close partnership with representatives of Moto Guzzi, Piaggio’s North American operations, and factory-authorized Moto Guzzi dealers in North America. Local dealers and regional factory representatives should work with regional and state (province) MGMCNA representatives in presenting open houses, rallies, outings, and other opportunities to gather together and showcase the brand. MGMCNA should be an independent not-for-profit, rather than a captive owner’s club, but many of the things that have made the Harley Owners Group (HOG) so successful should be emulated. One thing that would drive membership and help sustain the organization is a deal that would have one free year of MGMCNA membership included with every purchase of a new Moto Guzzi motorcycle in North America (even better if Piaggio subsidizes all or a portion of the first year’s dues). Another would be automatic annual membership renewal tied to the member’s credit card or bank account. Now, imagine combining the two: A buyer of a new Moto Guzzi is offered one year’s free membership in the MGMCNA, but in the process of signing up for the deal, they have to agree to automatic dues payment after the first year (cancellable by the member at any time, of course).
Again, the above are simply my thoughts on the subject. I am putting them out here for discussion, including constructive criticism, so, have at it.
:+1
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If you ask Frank Wedge, he would probably agree that MGNOC is pretty much a not- for - profit club. Anyone that has volunteered to be a state rep can vouch for that. Me included.
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??? You can better than that.
And if t were me I'd given you a YMWAHAYFSOE
Oh yeah, well NGAYSKOISTYA ....
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Children-Children-Children ;D :BEER:
Matt
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??? You can better than that.
And if t were me I'd given you a YMWAHAYFSOE
Once again , that is not how Edelbrock is spelled , sheesh .
Dusty
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With all due respect to Frank Wedge and his contributions toward the brand's survival in the 1970's, my calendar says it is now 2014. The question is what can be done today to bring new life to the MGNOC. If your answer is that there is no problem, so nothing needs to be done, then your nostalgic looks to the past or satisfaction with the status quo ante make some sense; otherwise, they do nothing to answer this question.
As I see it, the way to address this question is with another question:
If you were designing a national club for the marque, what would it look like?
Once we have a comprehensive list of what we want in such a club, it would fall to either Frank Wedge to change the MGNOC to incorporate our desires, or to some of us to form a new club, to make the dream a reality. (Or neither happens, and this topic remains nothing more than a semi-regular exercise in frustration.)
I do not presume to have such a comprehensive list of wants and desires, but I have a few ideas. Maybe you disagree with some or all of my ideas; maybe you have your own list -- feel free to post it here. At least we can get the ball rolling. I suggest that once we have such a list, someone close to Frank presents it to him to see if he has any interest in changing the MGNOC to accommodate our desires. If no changes occur, we can consider the alternatives of either starting an independent club or doing nothing.
So, with the caveat that each and every sentence below should be read as beginning with the phrase "in my opinion," here is my list:
1. The name of the club should not be "Moto Guzzi National Owner's Club" (MGNOC). What's in a name, you ask? Plenty. It's how the world recognizes who you are as a group, and what you are about. I propose: Moto Guzzi Motorcycle Club of North America (MGMCNA). This name is superior to "Moto Guzzi National Owner's Club" for several reasons:
a. Our Canadian friends also ride Moto Guzzi motorcycles and participate in group activities. (They have hosted a “national” rally!) The club name should include “North America” rather than “National.” Indeed, the name “National” is itself a misnomer, as every nation on Earth can claim a “national” organization.
b. The name should include the word “motorcycle.” Don’t laugh. You may know that Moto Guzzi makes motorcycles, but I bet the majority of people (maybe even the majority of motorcyclists) do not.
c. Calling the group an “owner’s club” is unnecessarily exclusionary, as it implies that you have to presently own a Moto Guzzi to be a member of the group. We should signal that the group welcomes past, present and future owners, friends of owners, and the Moto Guzzi curious. Either call it an “enthusiasts” club, or just drop the reference to “owners.”
2. The MGMCNA should be organized as a not-for-profit, with a board of directors elected at regular intervals and officers either elected or appointed for distinct terms. Officers should include regional representatives for distinct regions of North America, as well as state (province) representatives serving under them, in more populous areas.
3. There should be annual dues set by the board of directors, and the board should also pursue opportunities for advertising revenue from businesses of interest to motorcyclists generally and Moto Guzzi enthusiasts in particular. Rally fees should be as decided by the officers involved in organizing the particular rally, with oversight of the board. Fees should be two-tiered: members and non-members. Non-members should always be welcome to club events, but if a fee is charged, it should be discounted for members in order to drive membership. There also needs to be complete fiscal transparency, with annual reports to the membership, and the majority if not all revenue going toward events, membership and marketing activities.
4. Participation should be through volunteerism, with the MGMCNA providing reimbursement of volunteers’ out-of-pocket expenses subject to oversight and approval by the board. If finances allow and the membership agrees, small stipend for board members and other volunteers should be considered. Corporate sponsorship and advertising opportunities should include having them provide samples of their products and services that can be distributed to volunteers as “thank you” gifts as well as used as door prizes and such at rallies and other gatherings. If the MGMCNA becomes large enough and active enough to justify a professional salaried director, either full-time or part-time, the board should consider hiring such a person to assist the volunteers.
5. Membership dues should provide tangible benefits, such as:
a. An online forum and newsletter covering a variety of topics of interest to the members. The newsletter should be a professional-looking piece with technical, travel, touring, product news and rumors, racing news, bike show reports, and other information. Members should be encouraged to contribute articles and rewarded with free gear, tools, or similar items provided by sponsors. The newsletter would be online, but one possible goal would be to grow it into a professionally produced monthly print magazine, with a possible reach into “lifestyle” subjects of interest to motorcyclists. (I am thinking of publications like BMW Magazine and Red Bull’s The Red Bulletin.)
b. Wide presence on social media – Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, Instagram, etc.
c. Access to membership for networking, road trip assistance, lend-a-couch, etc.
d. Offering discounted products and services of interest to the membership: roadside assistance plans, various forms of insurance, extended warranties, travel planning and tours, track days, riding schools, etc.
e. A membership kit, with an ID card (with useful information), an MGMCNA pin, patch, and stickers, maybe a few other pieces of MGMCNA logo’d and Moto Guzzi logo’d swag, as well as a catalogue of MGMCNA merchandise available for purchase.
f. Rally and other meeting planning and participation, including advertising and financial support for such activities. The calendar of such activities should be packed with things to do, in all parts of North America. These can be Moto Guzzi-centric events (where all brands are welcome) or motorcycle as well as other events where an organized Moto Guzzi presence would enhance the experience (e.g., Moto GP and SBK race weekends, Barber and Mid-Ohio Vintage Days, Stugis Black Hills Rally, Daytona Bike Week, Laconia Bike Week).
6. The MGMCNA should work in close partnership with representatives of Moto Guzzi, Piaggio’s North American operations, and factory-authorized Moto Guzzi dealers in North America. Local dealers and regional factory representatives should work with regional and state (province) MGMCNA representatives in presenting open houses, rallies, outings, and other opportunities to gather together and showcase the brand. MGMCNA should be an independent not-for-profit, rather than a captive owner’s club, but many of the things that have made the Harley Owners Group (HOG) so successful should be emulated. One thing that would drive membership and help sustain the organization is a deal that would have one free year of MGMCNA membership included with every purchase of a new Moto Guzzi motorcycle in North America (even better if Piaggio subsidizes all or a portion of the first year’s dues). Another would be automatic annual membership renewal tied to the member’s credit card or bank account. Now, imagine combining the two: A buyer of a new Moto Guzzi is offered one year’s free membership in the MGMCNA, but in the process of signing up for the deal, they have to agree to automatic dues payment after the first year (cancellable by the member at any time, of course).
Again, the above are simply my thoughts on the subject. I am putting them out here for discussion, including constructive criticism, so, have at it.
Would Robert's Rules for Order be in affect at all the rallies? :)
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A lot of energy there ridingron. Join MGNOC and seek a state rep position if your state is in need. Otherwise help your state rep out. We need people like you with fire in the belly and ready to go. ;-T
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^^^ I have a feeling the "energy" you are complimenting is mine. Yes, ridingron contributed -- he provided that dash of "snark" at the end.
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I have no dog in this fight since I am a freeloader. That said, MGNOC is an antique, has been since the beginning of the internet. I was a member for a short time but when my renewal came up I decided that there really was no value in MGNOC for me so I didn't bother to renew my membership, I had no idea that the "club" was a business for Mr. Wedge.
I've been an on and off member of WG since the beginning and always saw great value in this forum. At some point I thought I should leave the forum because my politics didn't match up with most here, I was an argumentative SOB so I left the forum. Well, I'm now 65 years old and a bit more relaxed (retired last May) so I now pop in here every once in awhile if I have something that I think may interest some of the members here and to see what Daniel K is up to, really like his photo essay's and I'm really sorry I just missed him when we were in Barrea, Italy at the same time.
I have to disagree with Kev M about Facebook though. I belong to the Italian group "California International Club" keeps me up on Guzzi happenings in Italy which I'll soon be calling home. I also follow Moto Guzzi on FB as well as my Italian side family in Abruzzo and friends in Mandello that keep me well informed about all things Moto Guzzi so, FB is still relevent to young and old. I admit though that I really don't like FB but it has great value to me and apparently a few million other people.
I don't however see MGNOC as relevent, if it ever really was. This forum and several other Moto Guzzi forums have been in terms of participation way more relevent than MGNOC. What exactly do you get from MGNOC that you can't get from WG or the other Guzzi forums for free? What exactly does MGNOC provide that WG doesn't?
Anyway, my Bassa is still kicking ass at 14 years old despite a couple of come offs and it was a WG member that got me a part that was damaged in the latest come off. I'm not really a cruiser fan anymore but I suppose I'll always have it, maybe not as technologically advanced as say the Griso but it's apparently way more dependable ;D
Without this forum, I would never met the likes of Vasco and many other Guzzi owners that I've come to meet in person. Far as I can tell, WG is far more relevent than MGNOC and if it's new, younger riders you're looking for this is a much better venue to promote. Besides, age is not relevent, hell I'm 65 going on 18 and stll love to thrash the hell outa' my Bassa and my 675 Daytona.
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.....Italy which I'll soon be calling home.
A "little off topic"
Hey DY,
Barrea di notte....
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/ScreenShot2014-11-20at70311AM_zps567cf93e.png) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/ScreenShot2014-11-20at70311AM_zps567cf93e.png.html)
Good luck on your relocation/retirement.
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A "little off topic"
Hey DY,
Barrea di notte....
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/ScreenShot2014-11-20at70311AM_zps567cf93e.png) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/ScreenShot2014-11-20at70311AM_zps567cf93e.png.html)
Good luck on your relocation/retirement.
;-T Home sweet home! Thanks Nick, I still sorta miss NJ :D
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I have to disagree with Kev M about Facebook though. I belong to the Italian group "California International Club" keeps me up on Guzzi happenings in Italy which I'll soon be calling home. I also follow Moto Guzzi on FB as well as my Italian side family in Abruzzo and friends in Mandello that keep me well informed about all things Moto Guzzi so, FB is still relevent to young and old. I admit though that I really don't like FB but it has great value to me and apparently a few million other people.
I love it when a 65 y/o retired curmudgeon ( :P ) tries to tell the dad of a teenager (who has multiple brother-in-laws and sister-in-laws in their teens and twentys) what the "youth" are doing. :P :D
Facebook IS your father's Oldsmobile. The youth see it as something their parents do.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/teens-leaving-facebook/story?id=20739310
http://business.time.com/2014/01/15/more-than-11-million-young-people-have-fled-facebook-since-2011/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10539274/Young-users-see-Facebook-as-dead-and-buried.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gyro/2014/01/09/forbes-where-are-teens-hanging-out-in-2014-hint-its-not-facebook/
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How many teens or people in their twenty's are buying new motorcycles?
Less car driving and the assumption is they are probably not shifting to motorcycles.
"That today’s youth are driving markedly less than their predecessors seems clear. Between 2001 and 2009, a period in which the recession emerged and gasoline prices shot up, Americans of all ages reduced their driving. The U.S. population grew by about 10 percent during those years, but the total distance Americans drove fell by about 1 percent—a reversal from prior decades, when total miles traveled kept climbing, according to the Federal Highway Administration. Driving fell most sharply during the first decade of this century among those aged 16 to 30. Per-person miles traveled fell 2 percent among those 56 and older; 11 percent among those 31 to 55, and a massive 25 percent—more than twice as much as for the middle-aged group—among those 16 to 30. Another indicator: The portion of Americans aged 16 to 24 who have driver’s licenses fell to 67 percent in 2011, its lowest level in roughly a half-century, according to federal statistics cited in a report last year by the U.S. PIRG Educational Fund and the Frontier Group, two environmentally oriented organizations."
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A "freeloader" would be someone who takes advantage of the Forum, but who doesn't volunteer to help support it.
...
Lannis
There are no "freeloaders" here. This is a free forum. All are welcome.
I know.
...
Lannis
??? :P
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Due to the nature of my work I work in multiple high schools so I see and talk with many teens. The area I work has no public transportations to speak of. With that in mind it still surprises me how low on the radar screen driving is for a surprising number of teens. My largest high school has around 700 students and in warmer weather you will see four or five student motorcycles in the parking lots. Most who are into motorcycles are dirt biking or motocrossing but not street riding to speak of.
That being said I have also been surprised that a few are aware of Moto Guzzi and I have received compliments and questions concerning my Norge. ;-T
GliderJohn
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...
I guess I look at it sort of like when a potluck dinner is served, where you either bring a covered dish or drop a little donation into the jar. The folks sponsoring it don't require a donation, don't police it, and are happy to serve everyone who comes up. I (just me) happen to think it's not quite right when someone comes and eats, and talks, and hangs around having dessert, and has a good time ... and doesn't bring anything at all, and acts like access to dinner and everything associated with it is his "due" somehow, even though they KNOW it is costing someone money.
Just my opinion.
Lannis
But that's just it. The hosts have made it CLEAR over & over again that it's more important that GUESTS show up to this party.
Yet there's someone who can't help himself but to police the jar & judge others contribution to the event based solely on what's placed inside.
He seeks to prevent those guests from having a good time by making sure it be known they are "freeloaders".
Aren't you sabotaging the hosts party?
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How many teens or people in their twenty's are buying new motorcycles?
Less car driving and the assumption is they are probably not shifting to motorcycles.
"That today’s youth are driving markedly less than their predecessors seems clear. Between 2001 and 2009, a period in which the recession emerged and gasoline prices shot up, Americans of all ages reduced their driving. The U.S. population grew by about 10 percent during those years, but the total distance Americans drove fell by about 1 percent—a reversal from prior decades, when total miles traveled kept climbing, according to the Federal Highway Administration. Driving fell most sharply during the first decade of this century among those aged 16 to 30. Per-person miles traveled fell 2 percent among those 56 and older; 11 percent among those 31 to 55, and a massive 25 percent—more than twice as much as for the middle-aged group—among those 16 to 30. Another indicator: The portion of Americans aged 16 to 24 who have driver’s licenses fell to 67 percent in 2011, its lowest level in roughly a half-century, according to federal statistics cited in a report last year by the U.S. PIRG Educational Fund and the Frontier Group, two environmentally oriented organizations."
Good point and also true.
Of course, I personally believe the seed is planted then, so you would still do well to reach them.
And if you don't try, well, you just don't reach them right and I don't know how that helps anyone in the industry.
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But that's just it. The hosts have made it CLEAR over & over again that's it more important that GUESTS show up to this party.
Yet there's someone who's watching the jar & solely judges their contribution to the event based on what's placed inside.
Then he seeks to prevent those guests from having a good time by proclaiming them "freeloaders".
Aren't you sabotaging the hosts party?
So I'm "watching the jar".
"Seeking to prevent".
"Sabotaging".
Dang, I had no idea I was so powerful and influential. Either that, or there's some paranoia in the air.
I know that it absolutely worries some people to DEATH when they see an opinion expressed on WG that is different from theirs. Rocker's and Luap's opinion (the ones that count) are that everyone is welcome whether they contribute anything or not. My opinion (which doesn't count, sabotage, prevent, etc) is that people who use the forum to communicate, buy, sell, express opinions, trash-talk, learn, look at pictures, etc maybe should contribute a little something toward the costs of doing all that.
Sorry if that bothers you.
Lannis
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It was YOUR analogy - just holding up a mirror. Don't get me wrong, I like you Lannis, just trying to keep it real. P:) ~;
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It was YOUR analogy - just holding up a mirror. Don't get me wrong, I like you Lannis, just trying to keep it real. P:) ~;
Yep, part of "Real" is that even when people see the same situation and have all the facts, they may very well come to different conclusions about "how it got there" and "what ought to be done" .... that's how you know it's real and not just a mutual admiration society.
I WOULD say I like you too, but there are too many guys watching and it would feel sort of funny so I'll say instead,
"See that Bears game last week? Yeah. Hell of a game. Hell of a game. Bears gonna go all the way this year ....." :D :D
Lannis
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I think most will agree the WG pulls most of the Guzzi world together. MGNOC leverages from it and it serves the International enthusiast as well. Rallies and get-togethers whether MGNOC or not are all publicized here. As well as tech info and just general BS- all found here.
I think Luap and Rocker do a great job of making the Moto Guzzi community of riders and non riders, owners and non owners alike.
I think MGNOC and WG complement each other and despite a few disagreements are 95% complementary and make each group better.
MGNOC didn't make it with a message board and WG was able to fill in the gap. I think one criticism of MGNOC that I've heard more than once is that volunteers have been turned down being appointed as State Representatives because they weren't existing MGNOC members. Now that is self defeating. It hurts the club. And again, WG fills in the gap for active enthusiasts that aren't in the Club.
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I think most will agree the WG pulls most of the Guzzi world together.
I think Luap and Rocker do a great job of making the Moto Guzzi community of riders and non riders, owners and non owners alike.
;-T :+1 WG is truly an international group. I loved seeing the Wallabies that Tazturtle posted on the fender eliminator thread.
And then there is the women in England who restored the V 65 in her kitchen and living room (BTW if you are reading this how is that bike running?) and the Dutch guy with the collection of small block twins. Dare I leave out Vasco's comments and help from Down Under and on and on it goes.
MGNOC cannot hold a candle to what goes on on WG. This site is a blast.
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With that in mind it still surprises me how low on the radar screen driving is for a surprising number of teens. My largest high school has around 700 students and in warmer weather you will see four or five student motorcycles in the parking lots. Most who are into motorcycles are dirt biking or motocrossing but not street riding to speak of.
Well said. I recently watched "American Grafitti" again and was struck by the central role driving played in our social lives (back in the day). My daughter and her friends use computers and phones the way we used cars and motorcycles -- to get to the hang-out. The kids without wheels were SOL. Today the social vehicle is the smart phone.
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add to that the fact that the population is increasing dramatically in the bigger cities.
kids in the bigger cities have less need for a car or motorcycle due to access to public transport and Nike Express.
I would wager that kids in smaller towns and in rural areas are the same, or more likely to have personal transport than in decades past.
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add to that the fact that the population is increasing dramatically in the bigger cities.
kids in the bigger cities have less need for a car or motorcycle due to access to public transport and Nike Express.
I would wager that kids in smaller towns and in rural areas are the same, or more likely to have personal transport than in decades past.
I would expect your logic to be true (and perhaps it is to a degree).
BUT FWIW, I have noticed, even in my limited circle of suburban/rural family and friends what feels like decreased interest in owning a car or other vehicle by youth (teens to twentys).
Even a couple of inlaws who bought used cars in high school sold and gave up on them by or during college.
And others who just plain didn't even seek to get permits or licenses through high school and into college.
Now some of them have moved to major cities, but others are still rural and I'm shocked by how some of their parents have continued to enable them (continuing to provide chauffeuring duties).
Personally once ours are legal to drive then they'd better make some money to buy/insure/maintain vehicles, rely on public trans, or WALK cause the chauffeuring ends there.
First one is just about eligible for her learner's permit. She's on notice to start studying.
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Quote from rocker59:
I would wager that kids in smaller towns and in rural areas are the same, or more likely to have personal transport than in decades past.
In my experience the above may apply to kids actually living out of town, but I am quite sure in town kids have less vehicles as in the past as it is just not as needed. The other big difference is that in the late 60s-70s you hardly ever saw a high school age kid driving a PU as that was for "goat ropers". Also of the kids that have cars, they are generally nicer than what I remember most having in my high school days.
Back in the 90s one of my schools was in a very wealthy area. Us staff would comment that we hoped we could own vehicles sometime in our lives in the same class as many of the students were driving. The student parking lot there had late model BMWs, beautiful restored classics, late model other nice vehicles. One 16 boy was driving a near new original full sized Hummer. One senior girl even had her own airplane (not to drive to school)!
GliderJohn
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I got my learners permit at 14. I got a "hardship" license at 15, so I had my own vehicle before I was 16.
I was driving to the stables every day at that age to care for our horses. I even drove myself to some horse shows and drove myself to school.
My brother, on the other hand, didn't get his license until almost 18 because my mom and others would drive him where he wanted to go. I never understood that, as I wanted the independence afforded by having my own transport.
And, it still does not compute with me why any suburban or rural kid wouldn't want to be driving the day they were able.
I can understand urban and semi-suburban kids who can bike anywhere, take a bus or an EL Train. If I lived in Chicago, or Kansas City, or St. Louis, I can easily see not "needing" a car.
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I would think the other problem would be that it would seem difficult to make out in the backseat of your I Phone but then they are probably sending nude photos back and forth.
GliderJohn
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Nowadays students can have scooters for local cheap or even long distance transportation. :bike Young people have many different options now than we ever had.
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Here in my new home state kids can't even get a learner's permit until 17 :o ::) :o
That's not helping.
Not to mention I think cars/trucks, even insurance, is a LOT more expensive today than it was when I was a kid (even adjusting for inflation).
It's also harder for kids to find jobs (though they're out there).
And, to make things even more complicated UNDERAGE DRINKING in most states can lose them their licenses. I suspect some don't even bother getting a license just so it's one less thing to worry about.
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I love it when a 65 y/o retired curmudgeon ( :P ) tries to tell the dad of a teenager (who has multiple brother-in-laws and sister-in-laws in their teens and twentys) what the "youth" are doing. :P :D
Facebook IS your father's Oldsmobile. The youth see it as something their parents do.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/teens-leaving-facebook/story?id=20739310
http://business.time.com/2014/01/15/more-than-11-million-young-people-have-fled-facebook-since-2011/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10539274/Young-users-see-Facebook-as-dead-and-buried.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gyro/2014/01/09/forbes-where-are-teens-hanging-out-in-2014-hint-its-not-facebook/
Jesus, Joseph and Mary, I'm sure Jersey has gone to the dogs now ;D I'm sure they must have asked you for a visa Kev :bow May be true some youngsters are leaving but it depends on what you call young when you're 65 :P :-*
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Jesus, Joseph and Mary, I'm sure Jersey has gone to the dogs now ;D I'm sure they must have asked you for a visa Kev :bow May be true some youngsters are leaving but it depends on what you call young when you're 65 :P :-*
;D but one thing...
I thought it was "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph'? :-\
Oh, on the young thing, I'll let you know in a couple more decades. 8)
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;D but one thing...
I thought it was "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph'? :-\
Oh, on the young thing, I'll let you know in a couple more decades. 8)
Your day will come il mio amico ;) ;D
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Your day will come il mio amico ;) ;D
I certainly hope so, it beats the alternative.
BTW hope you're enjoying the new adventure!
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Well, I signed up for that Face Book thing. ::( Glad we are having Thanksgiving this year so the grandkids can show me how to use it. ;D :BEER:
Matt
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Well, I signed up for that Face Book thing. ::( Glad we are having Thanksgiving this year so the grandkids can show me how to use it. ;D :BEER:
Matt
I'm an old fart and enjoy it for what it is. My page is all goofy shyte, motorcycle, music and cute animal vids! I delete any political postings, whether I agree with it or not. I don't reveal any personal stuff, but I am a wisea$$ responding to friends posts. I really enjoy it for keeping up with friends and family out of the area, and pics from pages I have "liked," e.g. MGNOC, Hot Rod pinups, Keith F%%%ing Richards, etc. Keep it loose and you may enjoy it. Happy thanksgiving!
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Well, I signed up for that Face Book thing. ::( Glad we are having Thanksgiving this year so the grandkids can show me how to use it. ;D :BEER:
Matt
I opened Facebook accounts for my wife and me last year around the time our first grandchild was born. Since she and her parents live 3 hours away, we figured that would be the best way to watch her grow up. One visit a month just doesn't do it for us.
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I opened Facebook accounts for my wife and me last year around the time our first grandchild was born. Since she and her parents live 3 hours away, we figured that would be the best way to watch her grow up. One visit a month just doesn't do it for us.
I have decided that Kathi is right: I like children "in theory." ;D
We are only an hour to two away from our 10, and I envy you the 3 hours. Lordy help me when all are here at once. Kathi got me some sedative and, unfortunately, will say (publicly!) "Bill, you should take that little blue pill." :o But, it does work. ;)
I am not anti-FB at all. It is what it purports to be and pleases many. Kathi is on it every few days or so ... she doesn't need it for the grand babies as she visits 'em every week. I am afraid of it, as I have zero self-discipline and could envision me getting sucked into its maw. ::)
Bill
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I have decided that Kathi is right: I like children "in theory." ;D
We are only an hour to two away from our 10, and I envy you the 3 hours. Lordy help me when all are here at once. Kathi got me some sedative and, unfortunately, will say (publicly!) "Bill, you should take that little blue pill." :o But, it does work. ;)
I am not anti-FB at all. It is what it purports to be and pleases many. Kathi is on it every few days or so ... she doesn't need it for the grand babies as she visits 'em every week. I am afraid of it, as I have zero self-discipline and could envision me getting sucked into its maw. ::)
Bill
Bill, I suspect that I might feel like you if we had 10 grandchildren.
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I think most will agree that WG pulls most of the Guzzi world together.
Perhaps not. The world is a very big place. I'm pretty sure that the activity on "Anima Guzzista" exceeds this forum by a fair margin. But, it shouldn't be overlooked that your typical Guzzi rider out there has probably not heard of either and still rides happy.
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Perhaps not. The world is a very big place. I'm pretty sure that the activity on "Anima Guzzista" exceeds this forum by a fair margin. But, it shouldn't be overlooked that your typical Guzzi rider out there has probably not heard of either and still rides happy.
:+1
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I tend to agree with Daniel but I have no data to base that statement on. I just know that when I come up on Guzzi riders they frequently know nothing about WG or MGNOC. :BEER:
Matt
Now back to the Face Book thing. ;D
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I'm an old fart and enjoy it for what it is. My page is all goofy shyte, motorcycle, music and cute animal vids! I delete any political postings, whether I agree with it or not. I don't reveal any personal stuff, but I am a wisea$$ responding to friends posts. I really enjoy it for keeping up with friends and family out of the area, and pics from pages I have "liked," e.g. MGNOC, Hot Rod pinups, Keith F%%%ing Richards, etc. Keep it loose and you may enjoy it. Happy thanksgiving!
sorta the same for me. Music, Motorcycles, Horses, Photography, Travel, Food, news.
There are all kinds of pages full of interesting information. Lots of Chambers of Commerce have pages for their cities that post current events and goings-on. Lots of restaurants and hotels and resorts have pages they keep updated. Every news agency has a page.
I keep up with a bunch of pages for places in New Mexico and Colorado. Places I've been, and will be returning to. I keep up with a bunch of pages for places in Arkansas. Places I ride to regularly.
I don't really interact with a lot of people/"friends" directly on Facebook. Only a few that are a long distance away. Mainly I read comments and look at photos people post. And, sometimes post my own photos and comments.
Facebook is what you make it.
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Facebook is what you make it.
True. I signed up early on, then realized I would be wasting even more time in front of a computer than just WG. ;D Signed off. Dorcia plays.. and will show me cute grand kid pictures..
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I certainly hope so, it beats the alternative.
BTW hope you're enjoying the new adventure!
It certainly does beat the alternative :D You'll have to pay us a visit Kev. ;-T
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Maybe I can help on giving a little perspective, I'm fairly new to this site and the only reason I found it is becuase when I googled stuff about MG, threads from here were usually the first thing on the google search.
As far as the other Guzzi clubs and stuff, didn't know anything about 'em till I started reading this thread. I'm not firing anything at anyone just saying they way it is....
I found a MG California when I was looking for a bike that wasn't JAFH. Wanted something all its own and wasn't trying to be something it wasn't. So no advertisments led me to Moto Guzzi. But I think a MG must be found, not just sold...
I don't like to be a member of something that requires commitments i.e. I must do something to belong or I must give money I don't have. I like to help out if its within my abillity to do so and its my choice, not compulsory... Do I feel like I need to belong to a club - no. However this forum is great, the knowledge the members have here and things that have already been discused is awesome. As I work on my bike I learn more and more from this place, its a great resource with good people helping each other. IMHO places like this on the web and in RL are few and far between.
Am I young? Do I qualify as an opinion? Well I'm 34, so not that young, hopefully not old either.... and I've only had a MG for a few months....
Oh and if anyone breaks down remotly close to the Elkader area and needs help, let me know. Got a trailer and a shop to work in. If I can help get your bike back on the road, I will....
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Well Brightblade you offer of assistance to other MG owners is interesting. Should someone need assistance in your area and even if they remembered your post and had access to the internet and did a search on WG and found your post, how would they get in touch with you? ::(
Members of MGNOC would go to their contact directory and if you are a member your contact information and what type of assistance you could provide would be displayed. ;D :BEER:
Matt
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Bb, have you gone to any Guzzi rallies in Elkader? I bet you have. They are some of the biggest. If not you should. There you will find what Guzzistis are really about.
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It's been said that a lot of mgnoc members don't use the internet. With the demise of the snail-mailed newsletter/contact list, how then does the mgnoc have an advantage over WG? If a person doesn't have access to the internet to find WG, it stands to reason that they also have no access to the internet to find the mgnoc.
. . . and that's one of my problems with the mgnoc. Back in the day, members got an actual paper newsletter, tips and tricks, and of course the rally and contact list. I've got a stack of newsletters up past my knee. One day that stopped and mgnoc information became limited to that portion of the 'club' that had internet. Today the mgnoc plays both sides of that game -- claiming a non-technical membership and then presenting itself exclusively via the technology their membership eschews. Makes little sense.
That being said, BB -- as Matt says, it would be helpful if you'd post your location and some way to contact you, should your generous offer be needed by anyone. :)
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I believe the paper version of the MGNOC monthly magazine costs went up and Frank asked his customers what they preferred paper or e-mail. That's when I left the club, but apparently the consensus was to go the way it is now. :-\
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I have a suggestion that might help MGNOC a lot -- it's certainly helping to grow my organization, the International Skiing History Association.
Digitize the back issues of the newsletter and make them available through the website to paying members. It's a matter of scanning each page into a text-searchable pdf. Takes about a minute per page. The resulting online library would be a treasure trove of technical advice and great stories. And you could search the archive for text strings just as you do with the search function on WG.
To see how this works visit https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues (https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues)
The other thing I'd love to see is Guzziology available as an e-book. Sell it for $50 through Amazon; no printing costs, and no shipping. Maybe sell an annual subscription for updates. Are you listening, Dave Richardson?
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When MGNOC stopped printing the newsletter I lost interest and dropped out. Then came the 9 week ride to Sitka, AK and I remembered the Contact Directory and rejoined. That's how I found RK who was a great host. I also enjoy--very much enjoy the MGNOC Rallies and without MGNOC there would be no rallies. So I keep my membership current for that reason. I miss the printed news letter. :BEER:
Matt
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I believe the paper version of the MGNOC monthly magazine costs went up and Frank asked his customers what they preferred paper or e-mail. That's when I left the club, but apparently the consensus was to go the way it is now. :-\
[/quote
Frank did not ask his customers, I know because I used to be one. I have talked to many current and former members none of whom ever said they were consulted. I found out that the newsletter went digita, after several months of not receiving my hardcopy I sent an email to Frank asking why. He responded with something to the effect of "don't worry about it you can get the digital newsletter now."
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There will be and are rallies without MGNOC.
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I have a suggestion that might help MGNOC a lot -- it's certainly helping to grow my organization, the International Skiing History Association.
Digitize the back issues of the newsletter and make them available through the website to paying members. It's a matter of scanning each page into a text-searchable pdf. Takes about a minute per page. The resulting online library would be a treasure trove of technical advice and great stories. And you could search the archive for text strings just as you do with the search function on WG.
To see how this works visit https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues (https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues)
I believe all the back issues have been digitized and available to members. Not sure if they are searchable....
Mark
The other thing I'd love to see is Guzziology available as an e-book. Sell it for $50 through Amazon; no printing costs, and no shipping. Maybe sell an annual subscription for updates. Are you listening, Dave Richardson?
I have a suggestion that might help MGNOC a lot -- it's certainly helping to grow my organization, the International Skiing History Association.
That is a good idea!
Digitize the back issues of the newsletter and make them available through the website to paying members. It's a matter of scanning each page into a text-searchable pdf. Takes about a minute per page. The resulting online library would be a treasure trove of technical advice and great stories. And you could search the archive for text strings just as you do with the search function on WG.
To see how this works visit https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues (https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues)
The other thing I'd love to see is Guzziology available as an e-book. Sell it for $50 through Amazon; no printing costs, and no shipping. Maybe sell an annual subscription for updates. Are you listening, Dave Richardson?
I have a suggestion that might help MGNOC a lot -- it's certainly helping to grow my organization, the International Skiing History Association.
Digitize the back issues of the newsletter and make them available through the website to paying members. It's a matter of scanning each page into a text-searchable pdf. Takes about a minute per page. The resulting online library would be a treasure trove of technical advice and great stories. And you could search the archive for text strings just as you do with the search function on WG.
To see how this works visit https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues (https://skiinghistory.org/explore/issues)
The other thing I'd love to see is Guzziology available as an e-book. Sell it for $50 through Amazon; no printing costs, and no shipping. Maybe sell an annual subscription for updates. Are you listening, Dave Richardson?
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My understanding, from Frank, that it was was a cost cutting move due to an increase in postage. I like to play with my computer but magazines I prefer to read when the commercials come on. So, I seldom read the digital MGNOC news letter. And since I'm a member of the club, I just don't see the problem. The only MG rallies I know about are the ones listed in the MGNOC news letter. The BMW rallies I like to attend (Buzzard Bottom, A gathering of the Clans and so forth) are held in locations I enjoy and are listed on the venue's webpage. I'm not a member of the BMWMOA so looks like I'm a a free loader when it comes to that club when I apply the same criteria for being a member of MGNOC. But, should the BMWMOA go away tomorrow I wouldn't miss it.
My South Carolina ABATE dues are the same as MGNOC and I receive a nice printed, in color, news letter each month. It's down in the den and when a commercial comes on I grab it up and read. I do Same with the Antique Motorcycle Club. I do miss the printed MGNOC news letter. :BEER:
Matt
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You want my contact info send me a P.M. My offer stands because the more I read through information you all seem like a good group. I'm one of those guys that see someone broke down on the road I'll stop, make sure the person has help coming, help change a tire, you know just help if I can. Too many people just drive by anymore...
No I didn't make it to the rally, but I saw a few of you driving around which is why I started looking at Guzzi's. The next one thats there I'll make the time to stop by.
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One way to put relevancy on what MGNOC is offering in the way of value is to ask, " If MGNOC where to show up as a brand new offering tomorrow, how well would it be received?"
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Yep, part of "Real" is that even when people see the same situation and have all the facts, they may very well come to different conclusions about "how it got there" and "what ought to be done" .... that's how you know it's real and not just a mutual admiration society.
I WOULD say I like you too, but there are too many guys watching and it would feel sort of funny so I'll say instead,
"See that Bears game last week? Yeah. Hell of a game. Hell of a game. Bears gonna go all the way this year ....." :D :D
Lannis
I’m not afraid to publicly profess my like for YOU Lannis. I want to SHOUT it from the rooftops…I LIKE LANNIS & I DON’T CARE WHO KNOWS!
It’s true, I’ve had a man-crush ever since you described the care you use to strip your brit-bikes of their chains to bathe & cleanse them in hot oil. Oh, those were some lucky chains.
:-* :-* :-*
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So I'm "watching the jar".
"Seeking to prevent".
"Sabotaging".
Dang, I had no idea I was so powerful and influential. Either that, or there's some paranoia in the air.
I know that it absolutely worries some people to DEATH when they see an opinion expressed on WG that is different from theirs. Rocker's and Luap's opinion (the ones that count) are that everyone is welcome whether they contribute anything or not. My opinion (which doesn't count, sabotage, prevent, etc) is that people who use the forum to communicate, buy, sell, express opinions, trash-talk, learn, look at pictures, etc maybe should contribute a little something toward the costs of doing all that.
Sorry if that bothers you.
Lannis
That is PERFECTLY FINE & REASONABLE for you to have that opinion!
Where you go off track is characterizing guests as FREE-LOADERS. They are not. They are 100% in accordance with the hosts wishes. As guests of the hosts you have no right to disparage or alienate them.
It would be a nice gesture & in the spirit of the season if you could find it in your heart to extend an olive branch for your trespasses.
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That is PERFECTLY FINE & REASONABLE for you to have that opinion!
That's good, then.
Where you go off track is characterizing guests as FREE-LOADERS. They are not.
What if I say they are? What happens then? ???
Admiral Rickover, in his Naval Nuclear program, was always interested in hearing "The Dissenting Opinion". He got worried when everyone was agreeing with each other ... he knew that some major cock-up was on its way ...
Lannis
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That's good, then.
What if I say they are? What happens then? ???
Admiral Rickover, in his Naval Nuclear program, was always interested in hearing "The Dissenting Opinion". He got worried when everyone was agreeing with each other ... he knew that some major cock-up was on its way ...
Lannis
If you were to keep saying there are freeloaders on this site when you know for a fact that it's not true, then you are not offering a dissenting opinion. Regardless of how you spin it, you are repeating a lie.
. ..and speaking of spin . . . Admiral Rickover didn't take lunch with folks like you or me to get their read on the nuclear navy. He had a qualified staff giving him opinions. I seriously doubt that they'd last long repeatedly pitching a dissenting opinion to Rickover if Rickover had already explained to them that they were mistaken.
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If you were to keep saying there are freeloaders on this site when you know for a fact that it's not true, then you are not offering a dissenting opinion. Regardless of how you spin it, you are repeating a lie.
A freeloader is someone who participates in an activity that other people pay for, and that they are welcome to pay for if they like, but who decline to help.
We had a guy come up to the Guzzi rally one year, not associated with the rally, while dinner was being served.
"Hey, what's going on here? Looks good!"
"It's a Moto Guzzi motorcycle rally"
"Well, what do I have to do to get dinner?"
"Well, we've been asking for $5 from people who didn't pay for dinner in the rally fee."
"I don't see any of these other people paying $5 to eat!"
"Well, that's because they already paid in their rally fee."
"So you're telling me you're serving dinner, and a hundred people are here eating, and you're not going to let me eat unless I cough up money ...?"
And the answer was ...
"No, come on ahead, grab a plate. Food is here, dessert is over there, and drinks are in the cooler." I've got a name for that; sorry if you don't like it.
And when I made a presentation to the Admiral in 1982 at Babcock and Wilcox on the progress of his new automated fuel manufacturing facility, I don't remember you being there. Maybe you were back in Washington?
Lannis
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He wasn't an Admiral he was a Baron & his name was spelled Richtofen, get your history right!
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He wasn't an Admiral he was a Baron & his name was spelled Richtofen, get your history right!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_G._Rickover
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He came aboard the submarine I was serving in. We knew he was coming and I think we started cleaning that boat about two week ahead. I don't know if it was out of respect, fear or both. I know we breathed a sigh of relief when he left. The CO made 0-6 so must have been OK. You know I remember all the preparations for the Admiral's visit but I don't remember him. :BEER:
Matt
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back to the subject.....I think Moto Guzzi fans owe a lot to Frank Wedge for keeping it together for many years...I think he has been paid for that and now believe he should have turned it over to a more tradition form of club years ago.
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He wasn't an Admiral he was a Baron & his name was spelled Richtofen, get your history right!
Maybe your thinking of Manfred Von Richtofen?
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That is PERFECTLY FINE & REASONABLE for you to have that opinion!
Where you go off track is characterizing guests as FREE-LOADERS. They are not. They are 100% in accordance with the hosts wishes. As guests of the hosts you have no right to disparage or alienate them.
It would be a nice gesture & in the spirit of the season if you could find it in your heart to extend an olive branch for your trespasses.
Randown,
I guess under the recent "freeloader" standard you are a freeloader because you are not a board donor?? Hence your substandard status in the eyes of some :+=copcar + :winer ~; whose frowns ::( are quite evident. I myself, that is if I felt strongly about "freeloaders" would "ignore" them all and see how threads would read deleting all non-board donor "freeloaders". ;D :D ;)
Heck I did not even notice there was a board donor icon until after belonging to the group for quite awhile. None the less I never look at the status of a poster to see if they are a donor except just now. It made me understand the donor part is totally voluntary and good for Rocker/LUAP for running a class act.
The group is far more diverse as a result as there a lot of lurkers just reading for fun and no doubt in the long run more people choose to donate as result.
Regardless of all this carping about freeloading I could care less. This is not about getting a free meal at a Guzzi rally when some jerk should have offered up his $5er.
This is a free list and I like WG all the more because of it.
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Randown,
I guess under the recent "freeloader" standard you are a freeloader because you are not a board donor??
No. Only the guy who is "freeloading" knows if he is a "freeloader" or not.
I can't tell you WHO they are. Some contribute their time, or their computer expertise, or contribute in some other way we can't see.
And even if they DON'T, Luap's and Rocker's rule is "They're welcome anyway". That's good. It's their board, and I like it.
But it doesn't change my OPINION, which can't be right, or wrong, or impugn anyone. It's my expressed OPINION, and, as I express it, it looks like to me there are a lot of guilty consciences around. It's OK for other people to opine that it's perfectly fine to never contribute anything to something you're a part of, or using, or doing, and it's OK to have that opinion.
So if you know that you are not a freeloader, that's great. I never said that anyone in particular is, so if they're suddenly worried that they're being accused of it, that's between them and their conscience.
Maybe another example will help (or maybe not). You meet a guy who is down on his luck this week, he's "outdoors", nothing to eat, his job starts next week. So you take him home and give him dinner and give him a room; he doesn't have the wherewithal to do it himself, so we call that "charity". It's a great thing and we ought to do more of it.
So after a couple of weeks, he's got his first paycheck, he's got some money now. He's still living in your house and you're riding him to work. He's now a "Guest". We all like having guests for a while, and you've got one.
Now it's six months later. He's still living in your house, eating your food, driving your car, and your wife is washing his clothes. He's got lots of money in his pocket now, but he hasn't helped out with groceries, gas, anything. Just takes everything you give him, and gives nothing back; doesn't cut the grass, doesn't change the oil in the car, doesn't cook dinner. He's just happy to be a part of this forum home because there are no dues, no commitments, and no oily demands for money or anything.
He's not someone you're helping, he's no longer a guest. He's a freeloader. I don't know who they are here on WG. And it doesn't matter, because it's not my forum. But my opinion doesn't change because of that.
Lannis
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Traditional clubs are dinosaurs. Change is needed. What change? I'm not the right demographic as my generation is becoming extinct. I would like to hear from the younger folks what they are looking for. If I can help pass the torch of enthusiasm I would be happy.
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He wasn't an Admiral he was a Baron & his name was spelled Richtofen, get your history right!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_G._Rickover
[begin WWLD dream sequence]
Thank you for the link Rocker but I hear that site is full of facts & I have ALREADY made up my mind on this.
Some of you may delight evolving your perceptions in light of facts but I find great consternation lies that way - my views were decided long ago with indoctrination, leanings & emotion.
If I opened that link by my own definition I would be a FREE-LOADER since they too ask for donations. I prefer to do my internet FREE-LOADING in private if you know what I mean, thank you!
[end of WWLD dream sequence]
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Lannis -- There are matters of fact and matters of opinion. That this board is free is a matter of fact. To continue repeating the opinion in the face of the facts is to repeat a lie. You keep on with the jiminy cricket thing -- throwing out the vague, nonspecific innuendo and then "let your conscience be your guide." What does your conscience say about lying?
Luap's welcome says there are four rules, none of which are to give him money. He doesn't say "I really want your money, but if you refuse, you're welcome here anyway". He says "You're welcome here."
Your examples of freeloading have no relevance to the WG model. WG is not a rally with attendance fees. It's not a potluck where the expectation is to bring a salad. It's not a $5 dinner. There is no cover charge -- It's a free campfire. Folks who pull in can contribute money if they want to, but they can also contribute by participating, by helping out another member, or by just adding their number to the role and lurking. How can WG grow if the self-appointed fee gestapo is enforcing nonexistent requirements? Who would want to belong to a site that belittles and shames them for not complying with an imaginary rule?
There was a guy a while back who felt that the accepted standards of contribution and loyalty were unacceptable to him. In his opinion the membership needed to be held to a higher standard. So he invented new criteria and forced his opinion on the membership -- loyalty oaths needed to be signed, blacklists and lower classes of members emerged, all based on his opinion. People were punished for crossing his opinion even though they were following the published rules. Members became suspicious of who might be undermining their membership by reporting their opinion-defying activities and beliefs. Participation fell as regular voices became silent and the normally quiet became absent. I don't think the USA ever recovered from the McCarthy era. Let's not let history repeat itself here.
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Maybe your thinking of Manfred Von Richtofen?
Old dudes can be pretty facetious at times, stick around a while. And thanks for your offer to help.
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Old dudes can be pretty facetious at times, stick around a while. And thanks for your offer to help.
Sometimes we forget that we know each other's game to a nicety, and that sometimes the exchanges won't make too much sense to someone who hasn't seen it run a few cycles ... ! ;-T
Lannis
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If ever there was a waste of bandwidth, I think this thread is it.
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If ever there was a waste of bandwidth, I think this thread is it.
:+1
Dean
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If ever there was a waste of bandwidth, I think this thread is it.
I think that it had a lot of potential until someone decided to demonstrate that he doesn't understand the Internet by trying to turn it into a discussion about alleged "freeloaders".
Have a look at the Moto Guzzi websites and social media platforms (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, etc).
Now look at the Moto Guzzi National Owners' website, and this forum's website, and the two sites' associated social media platforms (oh, there aren't any).
Consider the rather dramatic disconnect between Moto Guzzi's internet presence and the really tired, dated (circa mid-90s) internet presence of the owners' group site and this site. Indeed, if one looks at the "history" section of the owners' group site, it's clear that it was last updated 15 years ago.
Are the younger people who Moto Guzzi is targeting and who are apparently buying the V7s that are keeping the company afloat here? Doesn't look like it. The why is pretty obvious.
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If ever there was a waste of bandwidth, I think this thread is it.
And we are up to seven pages and counting. :BEER:
Matt
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Are we going to refer to guests as freeloaders? Is it an accurate characterization?
The reference has come up before so it must seem legitimate to some.
I think it’s an important discussion though it's a tangent- it’s gonna have a bearing on how welcoming WG is going forward.
YCRN put a lot of thought into his post.
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Have a look at the Moto Guzzi websites and social media platforms (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, etc).
MGNOC on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/328264358708/
Since Wild Guzzi is not a "club" and wildguzzi.com/forums is the destination, I don't see why we "need" a Facebook page or group. But, I'll mention it to Luap. It would be just another thing for us to monitor, and to be honest, this one is enough...
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MGNOC on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/328264358708/
Since Wild Guzzi is not a "club" and wildguzzi.com/forums is the destination, I don't see why we "need" a Facebook page or group. But, I'll mention it to Luap. It would be just another thing for us to monitor, and to be honest, this one is enough...
Given that this is a forum, I wouldn't worry about Facebook.
It's a matter of who you want to attract as participants.
If you want some younger people, I would worry that the site design is, what, 15 to 20 years old? Totally dead graphic design? No Twitter or Instagram account?
Don't get me wrong. I think it's great that this forum exists, but to be honest, what do you think your demographic is? If you aren't attracting the people who are buying V7s, why? Why does Moto Guzzi's internet presence look contemporary and yours look, frankly, ancient?
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Instagram , Twitter ? What are these funny sounding modern inventions of which you speak ???
Dusty
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Given that this is a forum, I wouldn't worry about Facebook.
It's a matter of who you want to attract as participants.
If you want some younger people, I would worry that the site design is, what, 15 to 20 years old? Totally dead graphic design? No Twitter or Instagram account?
Don't get me wrong. I think it's great that this forum exists, but to be honest, what do you think your demographic is? If you aren't attracting the people who are buying V7s, why? Why does Moto Guzzi's internet presence look contemporary and yours look, frankly, ancient?
Luap is the site Admin and IT guru around here, so I would have to defer to him on questions of why this forum is built the way it is, and looks the way it does.
Our demographic is about what Guzzi's is. Peak of the Bell Curve is mid-50s.
We seem to have quite a bit of V7 Classic/Stone/Special/Racer talk on the forum. And we have participation in those threads by a bunch of guys under 40.
Having never used Instagram or Twitter, I don't guess I'd be a good judge of how they could be used to promote our forum here.
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Luap is the site Admin and IT guru around here, so I would have to defer to him on questions of why this forum is built the way it is, and looks the way it does.
Our demographic is about what Guzzi's is. Peak of the Bell Curve is mid-50s.
We seem to have quite a bit of V7 Classic/Stone/Special/Racer talk on the forum. And we have participation in those threads by a bunch of guys under 40.
Having never used Instagram or Twitter, I don't guess I'd be a good judge of how they could be used to promote our forum here.
Hi Rocker49,
There is a huge disconnect between how Moto Guzzi is targeting its bikes, and to whom, and how this site operates.
That said, I want to thank you for letting me say what I think about this subject.
If the owner of this site wants to think about being contemporary, maybe it's worth looking at what Moto Guzzi is doing on the net and what sites like advrider are doing for forum presentation.
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Hi Rocker49,
There is a huge disconnect between how Moto Guzzi is targeting its bikes, and to whom, and how this site operates.
That said, I want to thank you for letting me say what I think about this subject.
59... But who's counting?
You may be right. And that my be true. Truth is, Guzzis are bought and owned by people who do not meet the current hipster marketing campaign standard.
Wild Guzzi doesn't claim to represent the company, or its targeted demographic of the moment. Or, it's real demographic.
We're an open forum, welcome to all who would like to discuss Moto Guzzis, and related events and activities.
It's just a virtual campfire. No, the graphics aren't flashy. No we're not on social media, such as Instagram and Twitter. This forum is our social media.
Oh, and it's free.
Can't be all bad.
:BEER:
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Truth is, Guzzis are bought and owned by people who do not meet the current hipster marketing campaign standard.
It is just a fact that Moto Guzzi V7s are being marketed under the hipster rubric, as the new Ducati Scramblers will be.
Personally, I don't care. I'm not a hipster, but I find the whole anti-hipster thing obnoxious. Maybe because I don't know what their sin is.
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It is just a fact that Moto Guzzi V7s are being marketed under the hipster rubric, as the new Ducati Scramblers will be.
Personally, I don't care. I'm not a hipster, but I find the whole anti-hipster thing obnoxious. Maybe because I don't know what their sin is.
In high school in Chicago I was a "greaser" and wore Italian knit shirts. I went to college wearing those clothes and became a quasi/semi hippie but not quite. I was not a full blown long hair.
I remember the first time I heard the word hipster. I was hanging out on Friday night in Durham NC the weekend of Ton Up and the Bull City Rumble outside the Green Room while bikes were pilling in in groups.
I still do not know what a hipster is. Are they the grandchildren of hippies? ;D ::)
But someone clue me in what a hipster is. Really I need to know cause I am clueless. But I also think WTF?
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In high school in Chicago I was a "greaser" and wore Italian knit shirts. I went to college wearing those clothes and became a quasi/semi hippie but not quite. I was not a full blown long hair.
I remember the first time I heard the word hipster. I was hanging out on Friday night in Durham NC the weekend of Ton Up and the Bull City Rumble outside the Green Room while bikes were pilling in in groups.
I still do not know what a hipster is. Are they the grandchildren of hippies? ;D ::)
But someone clue me in what a hipster is. Really I need to know cause I am clueless. But I also think WTF?
Loved reading this.
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It is just a fact that Moto Guzzi V7s are being marketed under the hipster rubric, as the new Ducati Scramblers will be.
Personally, I don't care. I'm not a hipster, but I find the whole anti-hipster thing obnoxious. Maybe because I don't know what their sin is.
If you detected an "anti-hipster thing" in my post, you are mistaken.
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The site is elegant and reliable . . . not unlike a Moto Guzzi.
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someone clue me in what a hipster is. Really I need to know cause I am clueless. But I also think WTF?
The term came into wide use in the 1940s to describe white middle-class kids who hung out at the black jazz clubs.
Since the 1990s, the term has been used to describe young, urban middle class adults with interests in retro, non-mainstream fashion and culture, particularly alternative music, independent (indy) rock, indy film. The term is sometimes used in a derogatory manner, referring to someone who moves from trend to trend while claiming to be outside of mainstream culture.
Actually, a lot of the 20-something hipsters doing the cafe racer thing look a lot like young versions of the Guzzisti you might see at a campout or rally.
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The term came into wide use in the 1940s
??? Were the hell have I been. Really?...... since the 40's. Shit I was born in the forties. :D :o
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Came back in the 90's? No way...
And only SOMETIMES derogatory?
::)
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The term came into wide use in the 1940s to describe white middle-class kids who hung out at the black jazz clubs.
Since the 1990s, the term has been used to describe young, urban middle class adults with interests in retro, non-mainstream fashion and culture, particularly alternative music, independent (indy) rock, indy film. The term is sometimes used in a derogatory manner, referring to someone who moves from trend to trend while claiming to be outside of mainstream culture.
Actually, a lot of the 20-something hipsters doing the cafe racer thing look a lot like young versions of the Guzzisti you might see at a campout or rally.
Are we sure that this is improving the bandwidth-utilization efficiency 'round here ... ;)
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The term came into wide use in the 1940s
??? Were the hell have I been. Really?...... since the 40's. Shit I was born in the forties. :D :o
This cat was even using "the hipster" as his "middle name" in the 1940s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Gibson
1944:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlK0y8TlzUE
"Hip" is even older, dating to about 1902...
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This cat was even using "the hipster" as his "middle name" in the 1940s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Gibson
1944:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlK0y8TlzUE
"Hip" is even older, dating to about 1902...
I never associated hip with hipster. I just assumed hipster was a recent term like Gen Xers or Millennium. So there have been different hipsters over numerous generations.
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Following the normal flow of language , next will come "hepster" , then , for a brief period of time , "hapster" . Really hoping beatnik lingo will come back around , as in , "that hep cat is one cool daddyo playin that ax" :D What this has to do with bandwidth or the health of the clan , man I haven't been clued in to the haps ;D
Dusty
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And as the dominos tumble, can "hempster" be far behind?
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And as the dominos tumble, can "hempster" be far behind?
:D Followed by "hamster" ;D
Dusty
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Who hit the detour button on this thread? ??? :beat_horse
Dean
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There is a sub-class of hipster now called a lumbersexual. This has real Guzzi potential.
(http://gearjunkie.com/images/19985.jpg)
Hell, they're already dressed for being around the campfire, just add the traditional suspenders and a V7.
PS. Just advertise free Wifi at the next rally and it's a done deal.
(http://gearjunkie.com/images/19865.jpg)
"This man embraces the look with an unkempt beard, nothing tight, plaid, maybe even plaid on plaid, and an appropriate level of disaffection"
http://gearjunkie.com/the-rise-of-the-lumbersexual
Oh, yeah this dude is ready.
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:D Followed by "hamster" ;D
Dusty
Oh Dusty you out did yourself. :bow ;D :D ;-T
Methinks the linguists are coming out of the woodwork as well as out from under rocks to expand this thread from its dead end 'how to breath life into the corpse called MGNOC'. ~;
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There is a sub-class of hipster now called a lumbersexual. This has real Guzzi potential.
(http://gearjunkie.com/images/19985.jpg)
Hell, they're already dressed for being around the campfire, just add the traditional suspenders AND ABOUT 50#
's of sammiches and a V7.
Fixored. ;-T
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My conga teacher told me, "It is OK to be HIP, but you do not want to be TOO HIP, because TWO HIPS make an ASS."
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Who hit the detour button on this thread? ??? :beat_horse
Dean
Better call the moderator.
No, wait, it WAS the moderator! :o
Lannis
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Well this post went to shiiiiiyat... ::)
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Hipsters are just the current crop of trendy youngsters
In the 2000's they would have been 'scene', in the 90's they were 'grunge', in the 80's they were skaters & valley girls, in the 70's punks, in the 60's hippies, in the 50's greasers etc etc etc
**********************
My only interaction with the MGNOC has been seeing a few of their stickers on a few Guzzis... I have been to the website maybe 5x just browsing the classified area..
I can't see a single thing the MGNOC could or would bring to my riding or ownership experience?? I did attend one rally so far, the VA Rally at Meadows of Dan last July.. The only evidence of the MGNOC there was the same.. a handful of the bikes had MGNOC stickers on them... The only mention of the national club I heard all weekend was when the NC rep said that the MGNOC wouldn't put the NC Rally on the calendar because Frank doesn't like him. So no, I'm not a member and not sure what im missing by not joining?
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Huey Lewis- It's Hip to be Square! :BEER:
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Also, a LUMBERSEXUAL is supposed to be the opposite of a METROSEXUAL
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My bike came with a MGNOC sticker on it. I don't do stickers, but I'm afraid to take it off.
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My only interaction with the MGNOC has been seeing a few of their stickers on a few Guzzis... I have been to the website maybe 5x just browsing the classified area..
I can't see a single thing the MGNOC could or would bring to my riding or ownership experience?? I did attend one rally so far, the VA Rally at Meadows of Dan last July.. The only evidence of the MGNOC there was the same.. a handful of the bikes had MGNOC stickers on them... The only mention of the national club I heard all weekend was when the NC rep said that the MGNOC wouldn't put the NC Rally on the calendar because Frank doesn't like him. So no, I'm not a member and not sure what im missing by not joining?
The evidence of the MGNOC was the VA rally at Willville Motorcycle Campground (Meadows of Dan) you attended. Currently MGNOC has 36 reps in 33 states. MGNOC Reps are volunteer who organize activities with in each state. Activities are listed in the MGNOC News Letter. http://www.mgnoc.com/index.html Click on club meetings and rides. You do not have to be member. :BEER:
Matt
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The evidence of the MGNOC was the VA rally at Willville Motorcycle Campground (Meadows of Dan) you attended. Currently MGNOC has 36 reps in 33 states. MGNOC Reps are volunteer who organize activities with in each state. Activities are listed in the MGNOC News Letter. http://www.mgnoc.com/index.html Click on club meetings and rides. You do not have to be member. :BEER:
Matt
The VA rally had its own website and there wasn't anything on that site about an association with the MGNOC. That rally was advertised here heavily here at Wildguzzi and the posts didn't say anything about MGNOC. It's easy to see that a first timer like the Mayor (who we enjoyed eating fruit with by the way) would not associate anything about that rally with the MGNOC.
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The VA rally had its own website and there wasn't anything on that site about an association with the MGNOC. That rally was advertised here heavily here at Wildguzzi and the posts didn't say anything about MGNOC. It's easy to see that a first timer like the Mayor (who we enjoyed eating fruit with by the way) would not associate anything about that rally with the MGNOC.
You know that is very true. I've attended MG rallies in the east, central and west and don't think I have ever seen MGNOC advertised and that includes two nationals. :BEER:
Matt
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My bike came with a MGNOC sticker on it. I don't do stickers, but I'm afraid to take it off.
I'll send you one of these to replace it.
(http://inmanpark.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/HIP-SP-Logo.jpg)
The best HIPsters live in Inman Park, but you can be a wannabe. ;D
Created these as a fundraiser. Worked.
Bill
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I'll send you one of these to replace it.
The best HIPsters live in Inman Park, but you can be a wannabe. ;D
Created these as a fundraiser. Worked.
Bill
Average price of home in Inman Park is a cool $600K with a median income of $71K. Seems a bit more of high roller, up and coming white collar community than hipsters.
Now that I know what a hipster is? :D
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Really hoping beatnik lingo will come back around , as in , "that hep cat is one cool daddyo playin that ax"
Dusty
Beatniks don't play the guitar, they play the bongos. My Okie buddy didn't you ever see the Doby Gillis show?
Dave
Galveston
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It may be blasphemy but perhaps FaceBook would be a better location for this forum... Yes I know all about the objections, but it is international and there is already a thriving Moto Guzzi environment... The MGNOC FB page has 2600 followers.. The International Page has 6000.... Worth looking into. But checking all the various individual web boards is cumbersome.
[begin WWLD dream sequence]
Thank you for the link Rocker but I hear that site is full of facts & I have ALREADY made up my mind on this.
Some of you may delight evolving your perceptions in light of facts but I find great consternation lies that way - my views were decided long ago with indoctrination, leanings & emotion.
If I opened that link by my own definition I would be a FREE-LOADER since they too ask for donations. I prefer to do my internet FREE-LOADING in private if you know what I mean, thank you!
[end of WWLD dream sequence]
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My bike came with a MGNOC sticker on it. I don't do stickers, but I'm afraid to take it off.
Hey, it's kinda like changing the name of an airplane or boat, man.... bad ju ju..
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Maynard was my hero :D
Dusty
:+1
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Maynard was my hero :D
Dusty
UNCANNY !
(http://www.residentialmarketingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/maynard-g-krebs.jpg)
(http://g3.img-dpreview.com/20F2BA54027F4E56A6F50757AB160D96.jpg)
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It seems to me that these stories about the VA Rally illustrate what is problematic about the MGNOC. While the historic organizing force of the MGNOC may be responsible for there being a group of volunteers available to put on rallies, including the VA Rally, today there appears to be nothing in the way of tangible support for these rallies from the MGNOC except a listing on its web site's rally calendar -- and apparently you can't even count on that if the organizer is on Frank Wedge's "enemies" list.
The lack of tangible support calls into question where the value is in MGNOC membership. If it is true that you can't even get a rally listing if you are on Frank's bad side, that suggests a cult of personality that benefits no one except Frank.
IMO, it would be a shame to have to start organizing a new national organization from scratch; even worse if such a new national organization was perceived as a rival to the MGNOC and people started taking sides.
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This has all been discussed every winter that I have been on this board. Pardon me if I wrong but Frank does not contribute any funds to the state reps for their rallies. Nor will he offer any assistance if you are on the wrong side of him. It's like we have a Moto Guzzi Mafia here in the USA. I got on the wrong side of him when I suggested that the MGNOC might want to join the Moto Guzzi World Club
Dean
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UNCANNY !
(http://www.residentialmarketingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/maynard-g-krebs.jpg)
(http://g3.img-dpreview.com/20F2BA54027F4E56A6F50757AB160D96.jpg)
OOOOOOOOOH NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Dave
Galveston
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I don't really care about the MGNOC either way..
Just please note that I never said the NC Rally wasn't on the calendar because frank doesn't like the NC rep..
I only reported that the NC REP said that in front of the whole crowd at the award ceremony of the VA Rally
don't shoot the messenger :beat_horse
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Did someone just say "Moto Guzzi Mafia"?? LOL
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..... today there appears to be nothing in the way of tangible support for these rallies from the MGNOC except a listing on its web site's rally calendar -- and apparently you can't even count on that if the organizer is on Frank Wedge's"enemies" list.
The lack of tangible support calls into question where the value is in MGNOC membership. If it is true that you can't even get a rally listing if you are on Frank's bad side, that suggests a cult of personality that benefits no one except Frank.
my bolds BTW
Help me understand this:
1. What would you like the MGNOC to do regarding your two "tangible support" references above?
2. Where are you getting this enemy/bad side information from? What State reps are on that list?
Thanks,
Nick
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When I first got my B1100, I looked at MGNOC, but saw it was mostly rally oriented (and somewhat 'dated'). I'm not a rally kind-of-guy. Not my cup of tea. I live less than 30 miles from the Kentucky rally site and still have no interest. So with that in mind, I skipped joining MGNOC.
For WG (and GT) sites, I find technical information/exchanges that I think are useful. I've donated to WG in support of Luap's effort.
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I really don't get why some here think there has to be a "breathe new life into the MG owners group". You already have 2 options or more. If you don't like 1 of them, stay away. If you like both, participate. Capiche? :BEER: Or go to the trouble of starting your own and see how far you get. ;)
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Capiche? :BEER: ;)
As we say in the Mafia....umm...moth er country..... that would be "capisci" or if you prefer the americanized dialect..."capish" ;D
But, well said anyway!
Nick
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I real don't get why some here think there has to be a "breathe new life into the MG owners group". You already have 2 options or more. If you don't like 1 of them, stay away. If you like both, participate. Capiche? :BEER: Or go to the trouble of starting your own and see how far you get. ;)
It's not easy to understand. Some people have a real negative passion about the fact that Frank and the MGNOC even exist, as if it's hurting them personally.
Look at some of the war-like, paranoiac language that's been used in this one thread in relation to MGNOC.
“Assault”
“Branded”
“Jihad”
“Takeover”
“Forced on me”
“Required to pay”
“Restricted”
“Requiring payment”
“Branding” (again)”
“Unwelcome”
“Joe McCarthy”
“Gestapo”
“Belittle”
“Shame”
“Loyalty oaths”
“Enforcing”.
Nobody is requiring anything, nobody is enforcing anything, nobody is shaming anyone, no one is requiring "loyalty oaths", but this is the mindset people have. Nobody can "take over" anything, there's no war, no assault, no jihad ... why all this negative perception? Frank's very existence, Lannis' unwelcome opinions, MGNOC's place in the universe, can all disappear in an INSTANT and become a non-factor in your or anyone's life if you push the right button on your keyboard.
I was sitting in a cafe booth once. Four guys were sitting in the next booth. They were talking about "takeovers", "cliques", "constitutions", "commitments", "lies" - I thought they were plotting a coup in a Central American country. Turns out they were part of a 12-man bass-fishing club ... :o
Lannis
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It's not easy to understand.
...
Four guys were sitting in the next booth. They were talking about "takeovers", "cliques", "constitutions", "commitments", "lies" - I thought they were plotting a coup in a Central American country. Turns out they were part of a 12-man bass-fishing club ... :o
Lannis
Well the lies & fishermen part is easy to understand.
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It's not easy to understand. Some people have a real negative passion about the fact that Frank and the MGNOC even exist, as if it's hurting them personally.
Look at some of the war-like, paranoiac language that's been used in this one thread in relation to MGNOC.
“Assault”
“Branded”
“Jihad”
“Takeover”
“Forced on me”
“Required to pay”
“Restricted”
“Requiring payment”
“Branding” (again)”
“Unwelcome”
“Joe McCarthy”
“Gestapo”
“Belittle”
“Shame”
“Loyalty oaths”
“Enforcing”.
Nobody is requiring anything, nobody is enforcing anything, nobody is shaming anyone, no one is requiring "loyalty oaths", but this is the mindset people have. Nobody can "take over" anything, there's no war, no assault, no jihad ... why all this negative perception? Frank's very existence, Lannis' unwelcome opinions, MGNOC's place in the universe, can all disappear in an INSTANT and become a non-factor in your or anyone's life if you push the right button on your keyboard.
I was sitting in a cafe booth once. Four guys were sitting in the next booth. They were talking about "takeovers", "cliques", "constitutions", "commitments", "lies" - I thought they were plotting a coup in a Central American country. Turns out they were part of a 12-man bass-fishing club ... :o
Lannis
:+1 Except you missed "enemies list". :BEER:
Matt
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:+1 Except you missed "enemies list". :BEER:
Matt
Forgot "freeloaders" also. Actually I think that group of fisherman were talking about the US Congress and not club politics.
Hey right when we got Dusty between a rock and a hard spot the subject changes. I wanna go back to those pics of Dusty and Maynard. ;D ;D
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When I first got my B1100, I looked at MGNOC, but saw it was mostly rally oriented (and somewhat 'dated'). I'm not a rally kind-of-guy. Not my cup of tea. I live less than 30 miles from the Kentucky rally site and still have no interest. So with that in mind, I skipped joining MGNOC.
For WG (and GT) sites, I find technical information/exchanges that I think are useful. I've donated to WG in support of Luap's effort.
I am not a "rally kind-of-guy," either. That said, I do, as Arizona Wayne suggested one might, belong to MGNOC, participate here, and lurk and post on other Guzzi websites.
I stay with MGNOC for several reasons, including sheer sentimentality.
But, for a more substantive reason, I also find several contributors there to be darned decent writers, e.g., Rand Rasmussen and Jamie Muller.
The former, in particular, writes so vividly about the long, cold, dark, straight roads and endless vistas of the Dakotas and Minnesota that I almost want to ride there. I stress the "almost." ;) But, he is good.
And, Daniel Kalal, of inspired moto-photography and to-be-envied travel fame here, regularly posts essays with hot links. Great stuff.
I do question many things about MGNOC, e.g., what Dean pointed out about Frank's response re the "world club."
But, hey, we all know what MGNOC is and isn't. That's enough MGNOC "services" for me for now, so I stay.
Best,
Bill
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I notice the absence of a lot of key words in that list -- probably due to the authors of same, not due to what they may have been saying. :D
I own a lot of the words on that list. For the context-impaired, they were not written as attacks on the mgnoc. They were written in defense of WG independence and in the defense of 'freeloaders' on the WG website. I was very specific. To cherry pick the words, assemble them into a list and fabricate a phony context is a disingenuously cheap shot.
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Let's see if I can accurately sume up these 9 pages -
1) Someone wants a 'better' MGNOC.
2) Someone wants to know why someone else hasn't done something
3) Someone suggests that the someone actually do something instead of suggesting someone else should do something.
4) Many someone's chime in wanting someone else to do something to their liking.
5) Other someone's say it is what is is and no more.
6) Someone chimes in and says that's not good enough.
End result - more someone's leave, sell their Guzzi and then complain that Guzzi's suck and MGNOC sucks. All because no one did what they 'suggested'. Including them.
Close?
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Lannis, are you a fisherman? There was a lot of bait in that post.
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Lannis, are you a fisherman? There was a lot of bait in that post.
I feel more like a puppeteer sometimes. Say "X", and you can guarantee that "Y" will respond and say "Z".
On the other hand, sometimes I'm the marionette .... I'll have to be careful about that tendency!
Lannis
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Let's see if I can accurately sume up these 9 pages -
1) Someone wants a 'better' MGNOC.
2) Someone wants to know why someone else hasn't done something
3) Someone suggests that the someone actually do something instead of suggesting someone else should do something.
4) Many someone's chime in wanting someone else to do something to their liking.
5) Other someone's say it is what is is and no more.
6) Someone chimes in and says that's not good enough.
End result - more someone's leave, sell their Guzzi and then complain that Guzzi's suck and MGNOC sucks. All because no one did what they 'suggested'. Including them.
Close?
Yep, nailed it. Except you forgot about the hipster detour.
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Marrionette ??? ::)
Dusty
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Marrionette ??? ::)
Dusty
Go ahead. Post something like ....
"Everyone in the USA is becoming poor and poverty-stricken except for a few rich CEOs who are stealing all the money that we should have. The government should pass a $50/hour minimum wage law and another law that says that no one can make over $100,000 a year."
... and see what happens. No control at all, I'll just jump up and down on the strings .... Or mention how you like Apple computers, and watch THAT guy ... or mention American Indians, and watch THAT guy ....
Nope, time to quit that.
Lannis
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Let's see if I can accurately sume up these 9 pages -
1) Someone wants a 'better' MGNOC.
2) Someone wants to know why someone else hasn't done something
3) Someone suggests that the someone actually do something instead of suggesting someone else should do something.
4) Many someone's chime in wanting someone else to do something to their liking.
5) Other someone's say it is what is is and no more.
6) Someone chimes in and says that's not good enough.
End result - more someone's leave, sell their Guzzi and then complain that Guzzi's suck and MGNOC sucks. All because no one did what they 'suggested'. Including them.
Close?
No, I think you missed it by a large swath.
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Actually by this thread going to nine pages in a very short time tells me MGNOC is doing just fine. :BEER:
Matt
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While I don't have any intention of organizing an annual rally, I have "hosted" a monthly breakfast for over a year now, hoping to drag Guzzi riders out into the sunlight. ... I've had so few Guzzi riders turn out I'm not sure why I still list the breakfast.
I do have some good news to report from the last MG breakfast in Rochester, NY. 8)
It's basically winter here now, we got a snow storm and it's been cold. Last Sunday we had three Guzzi owners (the only three in our riding club actually) show up. And while no one rode a Guzzi (I would have ridden my Griso instead of the vstrom but there was some salt residue on the roads and that just isn't acceptable), there were at least 5 motorcycles ridden to breakfast and about 10 people in total showed up (again, all from our usual riding group). But what I enjoyed tremendously is that I got to headline and celebrate the Guzzi brand over a meal. And maybe that's all that I really need anyways from this endeavor.
While they love to rip on the fact that no (new) Guzzi riders typically show up at these breakfasts, and verbally abuse me to change the name, I'll never do it!
Long live the forth Sunday breakfast at the Countryside Diner in Avon, NY! :food
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Actually by this thread going to nine pages in a very short time tells me MGNOC is doing just fine. :BEER:
Matt
I backed up and checked -- over 9000 hits. That's funny. :BEER:
I don't think there is an amount you could pay for comedy of this quality. Heck -- we even got the puppet monologs at the open mike, on either an extended run or final night, featuring Marion, who seems to be a suffragette agitating for minimum wage and better stage props, and apparently a tad touchy when asked personal questions. :wife: I'd say you can't make this stuff up, but why would you believe me?
But really -- be glad it's no-cover. If luap could afford to pay the acts all this would go away. :-\
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Think it has more to do with the health of WG than anything else . RK , would that be Marian McPartland , the famous jazz pianist ;D
Dusty
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That's the thing about Marions. They all spell it different but it's all the same thing.
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Think it has more to do with the health of WG than anything else . RK , would that be Marian McPartland , the famous jazz pianist ;D
Dusty
Wow, almost forgot about her. What a great player.. I'll have to dig through the vinyl catacombs. Haven't played any of her stuff for years. ;-T
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I think they are still doing reruns on Public Radio. ;D :BEER:
Matt
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That's the thing about Marions. They all spell it different but it's all the same thing.
Yup , a bit of fancy prestidigitation fools some folks .
Dusty
I suppose they are much the same thing, as the Maronites do "salute" the Pope, as, of course, do we of the Roman Rite. ;)
But, as for prestidigitation, we don't see it quite the same as do the Calvinists. ;D
Bill
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I backed up and checked -- over 9000 hits. That's funny. :BEER:
I don't think there is an amount you could pay for comedy of this quality. Heck -- we even got the puppet monologs at the open mike, on either an extended run or final night, featuring Marion, who seems to be a suffragette agitating for minimum wage and better stage props, and apparently a tad touchy when asked personal questions. :wife: I'd say you can't make this stuff up, but why would you believe me?
But really -- be glad it's no-cover. If luap could afford to pay the acts all this would go away. :-\
RK you continue to amaze being spot on.
I too find it rather strange that with 9350 (now) hits and counting that is a reflection of MGNOC's health. 9300 hits is a reflection of he health of WG.
As for the health of MGNOC I think only one person knows that and it is Frank Wedge after all it is his sole proprietorship and he does not offer up any number. I am not criticizing him for it. It is his private enterprise. Good for him. You could say the same about WG/LUAP except LUAP does it for the love of the Goose and Guzzi community and is also totally transparent with the numbers from membership to donations and on and on. Heck even Luap and Rocker's personal info says how many members ignore them.
Speaking of ignores I was shocked to see I got my "1st" ignored by one member ??? . I could not sleep afterwards after seeing that as I am so insecure. :'( ;)
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Speaking of ignores I was shocked to see I got my "1st" ignored by one member ??? . I could not sleep afterwards after seeing that as I am so insecure. :'( ;)
I have accidentally ignored people due to the use of an iPad, so hopefully that is what someone did to you. I will occasionally come across someone's post who I'm ignoring and I immediately turn it off. :-[
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It's not easy to understand. Some people have a real negative passion about the fact that Frank and the MGNOC even exist, as if it's hurting them personally.
Look at some of the war-like, paranoiac language that's been used in this one thread in relation to MGNOC.
“Assault”
“Branded”
“Jihad”
“Takeover”
“Forced on me”
“Required to pay”
“Restricted”
“Requiring payment”
“Branding” (again)”
“Unwelcome”
“Joe McCarthy”
“Gestapo”
“Belittle”
“Shame”
“Loyalty oaths”
“Enforcing”.
Nobody is requiring anything, nobody is enforcing anything, nobody is shaming anyone, no one is requiring "loyalty oaths", but this is the mindset people have. Nobody can "take over" anything, there's no war, no assault, no jihad ... why all this negative perception? Frank's very existence, Lannis' unwelcome opinions, MGNOC's place in the universe, can all disappear in an INSTANT and become a non-factor in your or anyone's life if you push the right button on your keyboard.
I was sitting in a cafe booth once. Four guys were sitting in the next booth. They were talking about "takeovers", "cliques", "constitutions", "commitments", "lies" - I thought they were plotting a coup in a Central American country. Turns out they were part of a 12-man bass-fishing club ... :o
Lannis
You forgot "Mafia"...
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You forgot "Mafia"...
Yes; the risk of waking up in bed at night and find a Galleto head at the foot of it, dripping with oil with a MGNOC sticker on it ... a very effective warning.
More than one recalcitrant Guzzi rider has been found "sleeping with the fishes" in a pond near Larned for betraying the MGNOC site username and password.
Lannis
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my bolds
Help me understand this:
1. What would you like the MGNOC to do regarding your two "tangible support" references above?
2. Where are you getting this enemy/bad side information from? What State reps are on that list?
Nick, the answers to both questions appear in this thread.
The question was raised as to what would breathe new life into the MGNOC. Plenty of answers so far; personally, I would like to see more suggestions. Among the responses, some have questioned whether the MGNOC needs "new life." If you think things are fine as they are, so be it. I think the majority of answers are more in the nature of laments over missed opportunities, rather than attacks on the MGNOC and/or Frank Wedge. In particular, I find it odd that some people would find fault in calls for a more democratic, representative, transparent, and active MGNOC.
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I find it odd that some people would find fault in calls for a more democratic, representative, transparent, and active MGNOC.
[/quote]
I find it odd that you think a private business based on a MC brand needs to have a bunch of rules like a country and everything that happens in it is for all to see. Most countries don't even operate like that, including the USA, even tho they say they will, but don't. To suggest the MGNOC is not active is ridiculous, with rallies, breakfasts, all over the US and reps. in many of the states of the US. The only way the reps. get paid is a free subscription of the monthly MGNOC News and any $ they might profit by for their efforts when putting on rallies, etc. Some times they lose $ doing that. Just like any small business. But reps. don't do what they do to make a profit. They do what they do to give something back to the Club for the good times they've had in it themselves. It's a labor of love.
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RK you continue to amaze being spot on.
I too find it rather strange that with 9350 (now) hits and counting that is a reflection of MGNOC's health. 9300 hits is a reflection of he health of WG.
As for the health of MGNOC I think only one person knows that and it is Frank Wedge after all it is his sole proprietorship and he does not offer up any number. I am not criticizing him for it. It is his private enterprise. Good for him. You could say the same about WG/LUAP except LUAP does it for the love of the Goose and Guzzi community and is also totally transparent with the numbers from membership to donations and on and on. Heck even Luap and Rocker's personal info says how many members ignore them.
Speaking of ignores I was shocked to see I got my "1st" ignored by one member ??? . I could not sleep afterwards after seeing that as I am so insecure. :'( ;)
Hmmm. I know you probably didn't mean to sort of say that luap loves the goose and the community and maybe Frank does not? I don't think you did, but before some context jumper spins it up, I'll say that I don't think anyone has questioned the love of either of them for the marquee or their respective organizations. They've both been at it a long time, and paid or not, it's a commitment, not just a job.
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Wayne, maybe part of the problem is that the MGNOC is not run like most enthusiast's clubs but as a private business. As for the rallies, at this point they exist independent of, and some might say in spite of lack of support from, the national organization.
Look, I get it. You like the MGNOC as it is. Okay, one vote in favor of not changing anything.
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I suppose they are much the same thing, as the Maronites do "salute" the Pope, as, of course, do we of the Roman Rite. ;)
But, as for prestidigitation, we don't see it quite the same as do the Calvinists. ;D
Bill
I say this with all due respect
You're killin me Bill :D :D :D :D :D
Dusty
Actually I believe it is pronounced "OH NO MISTER BILL!!!!!!
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I find it odd that some people would find fault in calls for a more democratic, representative, transparent, and active MGNOC.
I find it odd that you think a private business based on a MC brand needs to have a bunch of rules like a country and everything that happens in it is for all to see. Most countries don't even operate like that, including the USA, even tho they say they will, but don't. To suggest the MGNOC is not active is ridiculous, with rallies, breakfasts, all over the US and reps. in many of the states of the US. The only way the reps. get paid is a free subscription of the monthly MGNOC News and any $ they might profit by for their efforts when putting on rallies, etc. Some times they lose $ doing that. Just like any small business. But reps. don't do what they do to make a profit. They do what they do to give something back to the Club for the good times they've had in it themselves. It's a labor of love.
Wayne, I don't think he said the mgnoc isn't active. I think he said he'd like to see it MORE active.
But I also think your post pinpoints one of the basic problems people have with the mgnoc -- confusion over what it is. You say it's a private business, and that's true. But with the word 'club' in the name folks who aren't clearly told that they're subscribing to a newsletter and website, but not really joining a 'club' expect something different. They are shocked when they discover their 'dues' don't buy them club-level participation. Then the confusion sets in more when you redefine the private business as a 'Club' (capitol C), when you just said it is not. So one improvement in transparency would be to call it what it is.
As has been pointed out by you and others, Frank returns none of the money sent to him to the mgnoc events. As you say, only Frank gets paid. The reps he has do the work for no pay, and as you say, Frank can't keep his state chapters' reps. There could be a cause and effect relationship there -- I mean -- if someone else made money on your labor, required you to invest in an uncompensated effort and tossed you a free password to their newsletter as the only payment, how long would you last? The state reps organize, publicize, host and supply their events themselves and hope to make up the cost through attendance fees and maybe a 50/50 raffle at the monthly breakfast. If the costs are not met, it's the rep, not Frank who is solely responsible for the shortfall. So it's Frank's small business and he gets paid, but it's the volunteer's risk, and they often end up paying the business loss for Frank. You say that's the way any small business is run -- but it's not. This is an aberration. So another improvement to "give back to the club" could be to support your LOCAL rep -- buy 50/50 tickets at breakfast. Add a Jackson to your event fee when you register. Swing a ladle on the chow line. Make the beer run. Help police the campground as the party closes. Put your money and energy where it's being spent on you.
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So another improvement to "give back to the club" could be to support your LOCAL rep -- buy 50/50 tickets at breakfast. Add a Jackson to your event fee when you register. Swing a ladle on the chow line. Make the beer run. Help police the campground as the party closes. Put your money and energy where it's being spent on you.
Even though it isn't required?
I like that idea. Pretty interesting concept! ;-T
Lannis
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Hmmm. I know you probably didn't mean to sort of say that luap loves the goose and the community and maybe Frank does not? I don't think you did, but before some context jumper spins it up, I'll say that I don't think anyone has questioned the love of either of them for the marquee or their respective organizations. They've both been at it a long time, and paid or not, it's a commitment, not just a job.
That is a good catch RK: thanks for pointing it out. I never for a second meant nor wanted to suggest or infer that Frank Wedge does not love Guzzi and the Guzzi community. I could see where a spin-mister might spin my words. I think what I wanted say was Luap is not in it for a profit but just for the love of pulling together an online community. Like I said I do not criticize Frank Wedge for running a private profit making enterprise out of MGNOC if in fact it does turn a profit: something I have no knowledge about. I would no more criticize any of the dealers who participate in this online forum for making a profit off their Guzzi businesses. I did draw and meant to draw the distinction between what Luap had done and Frank has done. But it was done in the context about the "health" of WG and not as a criticism of MGNOC vs WG. They are very different platforms.
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Even though it isn't required?
I like that idea. Pretty interesting concept! ;-T
Lannis
Nope, not a requirement. Just a suggestion to help out the folks that take the brunt of the effort and expense, since Frank does not.
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David, from reading your post I have suspect you have the same opinion of MGNOC that I have about BMWMOA. ;D :BEER:
Matt
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Good God, and I'm an agnostic! This thing has legs!
May winter be short for all. That shall be my mantra this season.
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confession.
For many months, perhaps years, I thought Luap's was the MGNOC board. I used to link to Luap's through the MGNOC website when I was shopping the MGNOC classified.
Like I said, if not world wide then USA-wide, both MGNOC and Luap cover most of the Guzzi (North America) world.
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I used to link to Luap's through the MGNOC website
You still can. Luap is the MGNOC webmaster.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/MGNOCcontacts_zps44bc3164.png) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/MGNOCcontacts_zps44bc3164.png.html)
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But why?
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But why?
As partial penance for that entry, bc, you are hereby sentenced to go back and read every one of the 360+ replies to this thread.
Get ready, get set ... ;D
Bill
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. . . the other part of the penance is to then 'splain us what you read in 25 words or less. ~;
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David, from reading your post I have suspect you have the same opinion of MGNOC that I have about BMWMOA. ;D :BEER:
Matt
With everyone except me telling you what my opinon is, how can you tell? **C
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Someone here mentioned sentimentality. That pretty much sums up what camp I'm in. Like many, I was a member when we still were mailed the hard copy. I miss that, but see no reason to quit - at least while I still ride a Guzzi. Also, I belong to the Wisconsin Club and membership in the MGNOC is required. Considering I finally have a really good job that I actually like and that pays well, the $ I spend yearly for clubs and being on here isn't going to break the bank.
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Hadn't been on the MGNOC site for years. All this talk raised my interest. It says 3200 members. At $30/year (granted some pay a lifetime membership and come out a bit less than that) = right at $90K before expenses. No more newsletters = reduced expenses. Then he sells a few items off the small store and maybe a some chump change off of ads from non members. So I would think Frank does make a living off MGNOC. Not a criticism just adding the numbers from the site.
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Hadn't been on the MGNOC site for years. All this talk raised my interest. It says 3200 members. At $30/year (granted some pay a lifetime membership and come out a bit less than that) = right at $90K before expenses. No more newsletters = reduced expenses. Then he sells a few items off the small store and maybe a some chump change off of ads from non members. So I would think Frank does make a living off MGNOC. Not a criticism just adding the numbers from the site.
DUH?
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Hadn't been on the MGNOC site for years. All this talk raised my interest. It says 3200 members. At $30/year (granted some pay a lifetime membership and come out a bit less than that) = right at $90K before expenses. No more newsletters = reduced expenses. Then he sells a few items off the small store and maybe a some chump change off of ads from non members. So I would think Frank does make a living off MGNOC. Not a criticism just adding the numbers from the site.
The money would still be in the company unless he took salary, paid both sides of the taxes, and c laimed the income. Maybe MGNOC is just flush with cash.
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The money would still be in the company unless he took salary, paid both sides of the taxes, and c laimed the income. Maybe MGNOC is just flush with cash.
Right
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The money would still be in the company unless he took salary, paid both sides of the taxes, and c laimed the income. Maybe MGNOC is just flush with cash.
I am sole proprietor of a chapter S corporation which is a fancy way of saying I own a small business. It would cost more in taxes to not take salary than let the money "pile" up in the business and be "flush with cash". My account does not like me carrying over much money from one year to the next.
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Interesting ideas and thoughts for sure. I am a life member. been a member for close to 15 yrs. Love guzzi's and I love guzzi rallies and. Some of the people who attend them are some of the best folks I have ever met.
As to the club, if I wasn't a member, I may have not found the rallies, who knows? I am in the camp that Frank did a lot for MG in the US in the beginning. If I had to pay by the year.......I would have to put ALOT of thought into writing the check.
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My guess it the number quoted at 3200, was prior to going digital. I would venture that the current number of members is far lower.
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My guess it the number quoted at 3200, was prior to going digital. I would venture that the current number of members is far lower.
Well that number, 3200 was on the website yesterday. So Frank is posting it as present tense.
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After reading all those posts, I almost didn't bother replying, but I want you guys to realize a few things...
I got involved with Guzzi owners in 2013. I joined MGNOC, and attended the Wisconsin rally because we designed an ignition for them.
At the time I did not own a Guzzi but the people were SO friendly and they didn't seem to mind.
This past year I attended the Iowa and Wisconsin rallies as a vendor (the only one). Again, the nicest people made me feel welcome even though I brought my Russian built Ural. I did feel as if Evan from Canada was the only young rider at Iowa. And that is why I have a suggestion...
Because of the friendships I made, a few days ago I purchased my first Guzzi. It is a 1967 V700 and with this forum's help it will be ready for next season. The best way to get young blood into the Guzzi world is to include an outsider into the Guzzi family.
Last year I brought my young friend Joey to the Wis rally and talked Jeff Parrish from Indiana into coming along with his wife/daughter. They both loved it and will return next year.
Why don't we try our best to bring someone new to a rally or event? It doesn't have to be a hard fast RULE, but take it upon ourselves to introduce the fun, stories, laughter, and rides to a young person not yet familiar with the MG brand?
If we all bring a JOEY or JEFF to an event, you would be amazed how fast this group of old farts is suddenly not so old.
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I have never attended a MGNOC rally that I did not enjoy myself and always departed looking forward to next year. I can not say that about BMWMOA rally's. I can't explain that-well, less just say I can't explain the BMW hang-up in a way that makes sense, not even to me. I do attend some of the Air Head rallies but only if there isn't a MG rally. ::( :BEER:
Matt
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That's a great suggestion C5.
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After reading all those posts, I almost didn't bother replying, but I want you guys to realize a few things...
I got involved with Guzzi owners in 2013. I joined MGNOC, and attended the Wisconsin rally because we designed an ignition for them.
At the time I did not own a Guzzi but the people were SO friendly and they didn't seem to mind.
This past year I attended the Iowa and Wisconsin rallies as a vendor (the only one). Again, the nicest people made me feel welcome even though I brought my Russian built Ural. I did feel as if Evan from Canada was the only young rider at Iowa. And that is why I have a suggestion...
Because of the friendships I made, a few days ago I purchased my first Guzzi. It is a 1967 V700 and with this forum's help it will be ready for next season. The best way to get young blood into the Guzzi world is to include an outsider into the Guzzi family.
Last year I brought my young friend Joey to the Wis rally and talked Jeff Parrish from Indiana into coming along with his wife/daughter. They both loved it and will return next year.
Why don't we try our best to bring someone new to a rally or event? It doesn't have to be a hard fast RULE, but take it upon ourselves to introduce the fun, stories, laughter, and rides to a young person not yet familiar with the MG brand?
If we all bring a JOEY or JEFF to an event, you would be amazed how fast this group of old farts is suddenly not so old.
That's a great suggestion, I have invited friends to rallys for years. To most of the people I know that own bikes the thought of packing camping gear on a bike a backroading it across 2 or 3 states to sleep in a tent on, OMG! ON THE GROUND? is just Crazy! I get......why would you do that? No thanks! No Hotel??? What if it rains??? and Ooooo that's too far (whining) But I'll keep trying ;D I guess I have pussies for friends! To most of them a ride to the tavern is thier idea of "touring" But they look tuff doing it!
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That's a great suggestion, I have invited friends to rallys for years. To most of the people I know that own bikes the thought of packing camping gear on a bike a backroading it across 2 or 3 states to sleep in a tent on, OMG! ON THE GROUND? is just Crazy! I get......why would you do that? No thanks! No Hotel??? What if it rains??? and Ooooo that's too far (whining) But I'll keep trying ;D I guess I have pussies for friends! To most of them a ride to the tavern is thier idea of "touring" But they look tuff doing it!
Yeah. I have to agree. Rallies and Campouts are something attended by a small minority of motorcycle owners.
Over the years, I have tried to encourage friends to join me, but most motorcycle owners are just not interested.
Most motorcycle owners I know (even long-time riders) are not into travelling or touring by motorcycle.
Over the years, my circle of motorcycle friends has reduced because of this. The more I rode, the fewer people I had to ride with. Funny phenomenon.
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Yeah. I have to agree. Rallies and Campouts are something attended by a small minority of motorcycle owners.
Over the years, I have tried to encourage friends to join me, but most motorcycle owners are just not interested.
Most motorcycle owners I know (even long-time riders) are not into travelling or touring by motorcycle.
Over the years, my circle of motorcycle friends has reduced because of this. The more I rode, the fewer people I had to ride with. Funny phenomenon.
Rocker,
I had written down the following and wasn't sure I wanted to send it. But then I just read your post and my thoughts kind of mirrors what you said.
I would bet the farm that most MCists have not and do not care to ever go to a rally. How many MCists even own rain gear much less want to hit the road on a weekend trip? Those of us that go to rallies are a minority within a minority.
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Rocker,
I had written down the following and wasn't sure I wanted to send it. But then I just read your post and my thoughts kind of mirrors what you said.
I would bet the farm that most MCists have not and do not care to ever go to a rally. How many MCists even own rain gear much less want to hit the road on a weekend trip? Those of us that go to rallies are a minority within a minority.
The riders you refer to I call daytrippers. Most Guzzisti I know are more serious about their riding commitment. :) For decades I ride cross country either moteling or tenting, depending on the circumstances. ;D
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That's a great suggestion, I have invited friends to rallys for years. To most of the people I know that own bikes the thought of packing camping gear on a bike a backroading it across 2 or 3 states to sleep in a tent on, OMG! ON THE GROUND? is just Crazy! I get......why would you do that? No thanks! No Hotel??? What if it rains??? and Ooooo that's too far (whining) But I'll keep trying ;D I guess I have pussies for friends! To most of them a ride to the tavern is thier idea of "touring" But they look tuff doing it!
I spent 25 years working in a dealership and on the ONE day off, I didn't really feel up to sleeping roadside either, and here is where we fail. Bring that "new" person to your local event. Even if its a generic thing like Road America, Mid Ohio, or Barber. There are Guzzi people at each of those events. Start with a day trip, work them into an over nighter, and go from there.
I'm alot more inclined to sleep in my trailer or tent (I do at every rally) if I know all my "buds" are going to be there waiting for me. In my past career, sometimes planning just sucked the fun right out of things.
Make a compromise and agree to a hotel on the second night (hot shower anyone?). I'm not preaching, just suggesting there are ways to motivate an outsider and once they taste the Guzzi fun....its easier the next time.
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Most of the motorcyclist I know, I have known for years and going to rallies was high on our list and we frequently went as a group. No longer. These days I ride alone. :BEER:
Matt
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I don't mind long distance riding, but not a camper. Mostly because I can never get much sleep and when I do it is fleeting.
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When I'm burning serious fuel I don't like to stop and camp. I like running at night. I'm more inclined to cat-nap on a roadside picnic table for an hour and then continue on my way. I've done cost-to-coast runs that way with maybe one 'full' sleep session along the way. Really the only two things that cramp that style are weather and the availability of gas. I sometimes have to camp out at the fuel pumps until the station opens in the morning.
Once I did that only to discover a 24-hour pump 10 miles farther down the road. I probably had about exactly 10 miles left in the tank when I parked. :-[
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@ the rallys I've been to the last couple of years there's always one guy that always says "I sleep better here than I do at home in bed" I won't mention who the okie is that would say something like that. I always ask him why he doesn't just sleep in the backyard ??? ??? ???
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Mgnoc is good. Wildguzzi is great. NARs are wonderful. Its all good. Never have been a big crowd guy, but I really like the guzzi folks I meet. As I age, this seems more so, then less. I too try to bring new folks in. Its not fir everybody, but then that is appealing to me.
Cheers everyone.
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UNCANNY !
(http://www.residentialmarketingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/maynard-g-krebs.jpg)
(http://g3.img-dpreview.com/20F2BA54027F4E56A6F50757AB160D96.jpg)
Mike Deathrow used this same guys mug to help promote the Okie camp out in 2013 , could be why he isn't the rep anymore ;D
Dusty
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Mike Deathrow used this same guys mug to help promote the Okie camp out in 2013 , could be why he isn't the rep anymore ;D
Dusty
Mike knows Maynard?
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Pretty sure Gilligan was an Okie ;D
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag65/guzzistajohn/gilligan_zpsbcf13428.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/guzzistajohn/media/gilligan_zpsbcf13428.jpg.html)
WHAT? You've never had a hush puppy??
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Pretty sure Gilligan was an Okie ;D
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag65/guzzistajohn/gilligan_zpsbcf13428.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/guzzistajohn/media/gilligan_zpsbcf13428.jpg.html)
WHAT? You've never had a hush puppy??
No record he was an Okie, but there was "Dusty's Trail"*. Oooh, the plot thickens!
*Be a good name for a NAR that he organizes. Dusty leads a group of unsuspecting Guzzi riders to be hopelessly lost on the vast Kansas prairie. :D
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No record he was an Okie, but there was "Dusty's Trail"*. Oooh, the plot thickens!
*Be a good name for a NAR that he organizes. :D
Darren , that may be the only time anyone ever used "organizes" in re to that guy from Muskogee :D
Dusty
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See my edit...
The term organize was used quite loosely! ~;
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this the most sensible post so far....Frank not going to change i support this idea of a National club totally.
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Darren , that may be the only time anyone ever used "organizes" in re to that guy from Muskogee :D
Dusty
I've heard of Dusty Rhodes
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag65/guzzistajohn/dustyrhodes_zps7422ca40.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/guzzistajohn/media/dustyrhodes_zps7422ca40.jpg.html)
But not Dusty Trail ;D
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I've heard of Dusty Rhodes
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag65/guzzistajohn/dustyrhodes_zps7422ca40.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/guzzistajohn/media/dustyrhodes_zps7422ca40.jpg.html)
But not Dusty Trail ;D
Sure he has more money , but who would you rather camp out with ? Wait....don't answer that ;D
Dusty
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You're not bad to have around camp Dusty, I wouldn't take any chances. might get a loud mouthed bafoon ;D
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We have a great group here in Jersey, and attendance is usually great at our monthly meets. Every time a rally comes up it's the same handful of guys that dare venture outside the state. For some, getting away for breakfast is one thing. To leave on a motorcycle for 3-4 days is another. I strongly suspect resistance from the spouse with a long honey-do list. I hear excuses like "I'd love to go to that rally but my cousin's uncle's kid is getting married that weekend". It's a shame, rallies are a great way to relax and meet weirdos.
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Interesting conversation. I've been a BMW rider for many years (still am) but I traded my K1600GT for "something with character". I have not been disappointed. However, I attended the 2014 "National" and was disappointed by how few people were there. The venue was great, I met some great people. My local BMW club is fortunate to host the Falling Leaf Rally. I, as many long time Gateway Rider club members, served my time as club officers. Since the Guzzi national rally, I too have thought what it would take to increase attendance at these events. However, the number of people at the event is not the issue. To me, the goal is to have a good time. That doesn't depend on 800 others. Having said that, I too would like to see what I can do to help promote the attendance. Inviting a friend is part of that responsibility.
I really enjoy this forum and encourage communication between enthusiasts.
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....Most motorcycle owners I know (even long-time riders) are not into travelling or touring by motorcycle.
Over the years, my circle of motorcycle friends has reduced because of this. The more I rode, the fewer people I had to ride with. Funny phenomenon.
:+1 I agree. I have been super blessed through the years by a very loving, understanding, patient, tolerant wife (of 56+ years, by the way). She has allowed me to take part in some "interesting" hobbies, including long distance bicycle touring and, for the past 18 years, similar activities on my motorcycles. I've travelled far and wide with my hobbies, and it's been great. However, there are not too many (guys or gals) who want to or can do these kind of activities. Therefore, I've generally done it alone or with a small group of strangers.
Now I'm getting old and am beginning to think about how much longer I can or should take part in these activities. I have some local riding friends, but health issues have pretty well taken them out of the picture.
It's a tough thing, this getting old. Avoid it if you can.
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It's a tough thing, this getting old.
Oh come on Chuck, I'm sure you've heard this remark: Growing old isn’t so bad when you consider the alternative.
Besides....you're a youngster ;-T
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First off, the MGNOC was there first and I feel it was the glue that helped keep interest in Guzzis alive. And still helps. Personal attendance at rallies, letting others know there are still lots of folks out there who still share their passion probably is the most important thing. I am a member for 33 years and will be as long as I own a Guzzi. Always remember to make positive suggestions because "an ounce of negativity cancels out a pound of optimism."
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I usually enjoy the ride to the rally on Friday. Hang out Saturday, maybe ride to brunch/lunch. And ride out on Sunday. Saturday is for socializing, beer drinking, cigar smoking and story telling.
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:+1 I agree. I have been super blessed through the years by a very loving, understanding, patient, tolerant wife (of 56+ years, by the way). She has allowed me to take part in some "interesting" hobbies, including long distance bicycle touring and, for the past 18 years, similar activities on my motorcycles. I've travelled far and wide with my hobbies, and it's been great. However, there are not too many (guys or gals) who want to or can do these kind of activities. Therefore, I've generally done it alone or with a small group of strangers.
Now I'm getting old and am beginning to think about how much longer I can or should take part in these activities. I have some local riding friends, but health issues have pretty well taken them out of the picture.
It's a tough thing, this getting old. Avoid it if you can.
Chuck, you have a LOT of life and adventure remaining before you! Hope to see you again next year over a bowl of gumbo!
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First off, the MGNOC was there first and I feel it was the glue that helped keep interest in Guzzis alive. And still helps. Personal attendance at rallies, letting others know there are still lots of folks out there who still share their passion probably is the most important thing. I am a member for 33 years and will be as long as I own a Guzzi. Always remember to make positive suggestions because "an ounce of negativity cancels out a pound of optimism."
I very much agree. :BEER:
Matt
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I belong to both, support both, and are glad for what each one of them does.
Lannis
I agree wholeheartedly. ;-T ;-T ;-T ;D ;D ;D ;-T ;-T ;-T
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I just got my email from Frank stating my membership dues time is here. In all honesty I have a hard time keeping my membership up. It's not about the $30 as much as I really get nothing from MGNOC. I did enjoy getting the MGNOC in hard copy form and sometimes don't even go to the online version. I am here on Wildguzzi daily and would rather throw my financial support this way. I'm not a big rally goer but have been to a few. I'm not sure if the local rally's get a kick back from the MGNOC. I think not as to attend rally's you have to pay to attend for camping and food. This is not to diminish the work Frank has and is doing for the marque.
Just curious to hear others thoughts. In the end I'll probably continue my MGNOC membership.
Sam
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I'm at a similar point, but I think having the database of members contact info is worth the price if you run into trouble on the road.
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Sam, I am very much like you except I do try to attend the rallies. I also agree with Norm. I believe MGNOC is sort of a glue the holds the whole thing together. Other than that ........ :BEER:
Matt
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I just got my email from Frank stating my membership dues time is here. In all honesty I have a hard time keeping my membership up. It's not about the $30 as much as I really get nothing from MGNOC. I did enjoy getting the MGNOC in hard copy form and sometimes don't even go to the online version. I am here on Wildguzzi daily and would rather throw my financial support this way. I'm not a big rally goer but have been to a few. I'm not sure if the local rally's get a kick back from the MGNOC. I think not as to attend rally's you have to pay to attend for camping and food. This is not to diminish the work Frank has and is doing for the marque.
Just curious to hear others thoughts. In the end I'll probably continue my MGNOC membership.
Sam
It was a hassle for me too, signing back up every year, so I signed up for a Life Membership. No more hassle!!
Lannis
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Renew.
Another way to support the marque, along with donating to WG, attending rallys and supporting your local dealer. Member contact list is worth the price of admission. Many rallys, and other events that don't make WG.
Dave
Galveston
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Go ahead and renew, it's good karma perhaps? Not that I did, but it makes me feel better knowing the club is still banging away.
As far as I know, MGNOC does not contribute anything to the rallies, other than the occasional free membership. :-\
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C'mon. For the cost of a few fast food lunches you get to meet and know all the distinguished and unique Guzzistas who buy these fine machines. Who knows, you might get a bar-b-q outta the deal.
Spuddy
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I have not missed being a member since years ago.. when I could read it in the bathroom.. and all the hoops he has set up to keep us non contributors out was distracting.. a new password every month? come-on. I could be wrong but there is no place for interaction of members, right? after Frank MGNOC will go the way of the Sidecarist I predict.
that reminds me I'm passed due on supporting WildGuzzi where I get A LOT MORE VALUE. what's really cool here is it's voluntary..
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Yep
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It was a hassle for me too, signing back up every year, so I signed up for a Life Membership. No more hassle!!
Lannis
:+1 ;-T ;-T ;-T ;D ;D ;D ;-T ;-T ;-T
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The Sidecarist is alive and well. Just pay your membership fee to the USCA.
Don't renew and get no magazine. Renewal is easy now. You can pay online.
Are you living in a hole?
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I always supported the MGNOC, even though I think it has less value then back in the day. I belonged for years....
But...
I was in SoCal, and didn't remember to bring my help list with me to take on a trip. Didn't have the password, so called Frank. He asked my membership number, and I didn't know it. I don't carry cards for every thing I belong to. Told him it's back in Indiana. He wouldn't give me the password, so I quit belonging to MGNOC. <shrug> I'd rather pay my "dues" to WG, GT, the V11 forum, etc.
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It's only my opinion, but Chucks experience kind of reduces the whole thing for me. I know lots of life members and many more feel differently, but my direct exchanges with Frank over the years have been less that satisfying. Frank chose to treat Chuck poorly, what else do you need to know?
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Chuck, You should have called me....I'm a life member and really like the online magazine plus the member list plus the tips sheets, and I like having the identity stuff on my Guzzies especially around all the Harley pirates............ .............. :BEER:
Randy
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The Sidecarist is alive and well. Just pay your membership fee to the USCA.
Don't renew and get no magazine. Renewal is easy now. You can pay online.
Are you living in a hole? I guess so, right now I'm in the basement (wife calls it the lower level) my macpad/survival bunker is down there.
so it's still printed and sent to my actual mailbox so I can read it on the toilet? I thought they went out of print?
I pretended to ride a sidecar rig for about 3 seconds back when I got the Sidecarist mag, it was great..
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iPad or other tablet is good for toilet reading.
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It's only my opinion, but Chucks experience kind of reduces the whole thing for me. I know lots of life members and many more feel differently, but my direct exchanges with Frank over the years have been less that satisfying. Frank chose to treat Chuck poorly, what else do you need to know?
I know that ANYone can have a bad day, including Chuck and/or Frank, I know that I haven't had a bad day at the same time as Frank in the last 15 years or so, and I know that I wouldn't terminate a meaningful relationship over one experience; we ARE human, after all.
Other than that, I'm OK with what I know ....
Lannis
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I was a member until I changed credit cards and didn't do the automatic renewal.
The state MGNOC is kaput along the neighboring state where I ride. I know there was one volunteer to get things going again but he was declined since he wasn't a current MGNOC member. And a couple of others that had done it before and were given the short shrift. That's hard for me to understand.
Now we seem to have some NARs and get-togethers that keep it all going.
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There's a retired guy in ok city that would be a good state rep
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I'm at a similar point, but I think having the database of members contact info is worth the price if you run into trouble on the road.
That's the only reason I belonged, but I've heard it didn't work for some people. They called people on the list for help, and the people were like "why are you calling me?"
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A little history. If it were not for the MGNOC keeping the marque flying back in the 80's there would be no Guzzis in the USA. Andy Thompson Ind st rep
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A little history. If it were not for the MGNOC keeping the marque flying back in the 80's there would be no Guzzis in the USA. Andy Thompson Ind st rep
ah the good ole days when MGNOC was relevant.
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That's the only reason I belonged, but I've heard it didn't work for some people. They called people on the list for help, and the people were like "why are you calling me?"
Not my experience with the list has been very positive. ;-T Don't leave home without it. :BEER:
Matt
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There's a retired guy in ok city that would be a good state rep
He's not a current MGNOC member, so not eligible. ;)
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Since getting my Guzzi in May 2013, I've checked out the MGNOC site several times and have been tempted to join, but I've been turned off by my impression that there's little going on there. For example, in the "Articles" section, there haven't been any now postings since the first time I looked, nearly 2 years ago. Also, there are few dates ascertainable from the articles, and none of the newer models are referred to, so the articles could be many years old. The classifieds seem to be up to date, but offer nothing more than the ones here. I mostly travel in about a 100-mile radius, so I don't need to contact other members for roadside help, and in any case, I have roadside service as part of my AMA membership (the only reason I joined). So, unless someone can come up with a persuasive reason to join MGNOC, I'll remain a nonmember.
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They called people on the list for help, and the people were like "why are you calling me?"
That is funny.
I was on the list for quite a few years after I dropped out of the club. Maybe that is why people were wondering why they were being called, as they were no longer involved with MGNOC.
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That is funny.
I was on the list for quite a few years after I dropped out of the club. Maybe that is why people were wondering why they were being called, as they were no longer involved with MGNOC.
I am a member.
Don't really see the value in it anymore, however I do appreciate the history of what was developed "back in the day" and the role it may have played in keeping the company here, and I am happy to support MGNOC for that reason alone.
But for Chrissakes, at least throw us a bone and update the friggin' list.
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But for Chrissakes...
Email Tony George (his address is at the front of the directory) and tell him to add (or delete) your name. It's pretty simple, but it won't happen by magic. sigh...
My name and phone numbers are on the list; it's accurate. Call me if you're on the road and need help. Virtually all the user names on Wildguzzi are anonymous (mine is not); the names in the MGNOC directory are all real.
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We fought a few wars using propeller aircraft fighters but we don't use them now.
Dean
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I made good use of it on this trip.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=62032.0
Thanks to "the list" I went fishing in Alaska.
(http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/2jabam3/Screenshot_2013-06-21-21-17-52_zps20f4a2f5.jpg) (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/2jabam3/media/Screenshot_2013-06-21-21-17-52_zps20f4a2f5.jpg.html)
and a personal tour guide of
(http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/2jabam3/Jan09MC052_zps50e6c94c.jpg) (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/2jabam3/media/Jan09MC052_zps50e6c94c.jpg.html)
on this ride.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=66602.0
Well worth the $$ to me.
But so is my AAA membership.
(http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/2jabam3/DSC_0251_zpsfa1792e2.jpg) (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/2jabam3/media/DSC_0251_zpsfa1792e2.jpg.html)
:BEER:
Matt
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Email Tony George (his address is at the front of the directory) and tell him to add (or delete) your name. It's pretty simple, but it won't happen by magic. sigh...
My name and phone numbers are on the list; it's accurate. Call me if you're on the road and need help. Virtually all the user names on Wildguzzi are anonymous (mine is not); the names in the MGNOC directory are all real.
Same here. Accurate as long as the people on it make notes when something changes!
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He's not a current MGNOC member, so not eligible. ;)
I know a guy in Fayetteville that has done a ton for the hobby and was denied to be state rep for the same reason.
:-\
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A little history. If it were not for the MGNOC keeping the marque flying back in the 80's there would be no Guzzis in the USA. Andy Thompson Ind st rep
Andy, I'm not disagreeing with you on that statement, I have heard it said before, and for all I know it is true. On the other hand, it could be just urban legend? I wouldn't mind someone explaining exactly how MGNOC saved MG in NA? Or even just summarizing how MGNOC kept the whole thing afloat through more lean times. It would be good for us all to know from a historical perspective. :)
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You know Bad Chad has a point. I was, for a very short time, a Moto Guzzi dealer in the 80ies and didn't know MGNOC existed. :BEER:
Matt
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We fought a few wars using propeller aircraft fighters but we don't use them now.
Dean
That's true, but when we have a thread showing old warbirds in action, and stories about the guys flying them ....
.... every other post isn't about how sh!tty they are compared to a jet, or how stupid it is to spend money keeping them going, or how we'd have won the war anyway without them because they really never did anything, or how they all ought to be grounded or done away with because I don't like them, or how the guy who owned the hanger was mean to me once so I don't like propeller planes any more ...... ;D
Lannis
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You know Bad Chad has a point. I was, for a very short time, a Moto Guzzi dealer in the 80ies and didn't know MGNOC existed. :BEER:
Matt
[/quote
Yep . I have been around Guzzis since the '70s , never heard of MGNOC until my buddy Jay joined in '97 or so . Not saying anything bad about the organization , but kind of doubt some of the claims made about its importance .
Dusty
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Dusty, that's nothing. I can almost say I never heard of Moto Guzzi until I became a dealer. :BEER:
Matt
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Dusty, that's nothing. I can almost say I never heard of Moto Guzzi until I became a dealer. :BEER:
Matt
:D :D :D :D :D
There was a guy in my first MC buddie's hood that owned an Ambassador , cool old guy of probably 32 years of age :D He let us hang around and ask stupid questions :BEER: MGNOC no doubt was very important to its members , providing a valuable resource . Kind of like belonging to the MOA or the Beatle's fan club , fun , but not absolutely necessary to own and enjoy a beemer , or listen to Revolver and enjoy it .
Dusty
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:D :D :D :D :D
There was a guy in my first MC buddie's hood that owned an Ambassador , cool old guy of probably 32 years of age :D He let us hang around and ask stupid questions :BEER: MGNOC no doubt was very important to its members , providing a valuable resource . Kind of like belonging to the MOA or the Beatle's fan club , fun , but not absolutely necessary to own and enjoy a beemer , or listen to Revolver and enjoy it .
Dusty
I agree entirely with that sentiment. Now turn on your Betazoid-level empathic powers and explain this please. ;)
Whenever the MGNOC is mentioned, even tangentially, some people (like me) come on and say that they find it a useful thing to belong to, that it's been useful to us in the past, and that we continue to support it. Fair enough, I say.
Other people (like you) say that it's not necessary to belong to the MGNOC to enjoy one's Guzzi, and that it is not as relevant as it was, once upon a time, when the Newsletter had the thick "TIPS" column with the kind of things we talk about on this list today and across the Internet. ALSO fair enough, and probably somewhat true.
But a core of people seem genuinely hostile toward the MGNOC, toward Frank Wedge, indeed toward the very IDEA of a MGNOC. There is almost virtual spit flying out of their mouths as they damn it up street and down alley for a time-wasting, money-wasting, irrelevant scam, and they want it to go away, and they don't want anyone to belong to it.
I don't understand the third group at all. I don't belong to HOG, nor the CMA, nor the AAA, but if people want to belong to it and pay dues, that's absolutely no skin of my nose. Certainly everyone's entitled to have their opinion and express it here, but I can't figure out the "Why?" in this case ....
Lannis
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iPad or other tablet is good for toilet reading.
You can wipe with an iPad or other tablet? I know you can with the paper version....
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Lannis , the Eastern OK MGNOC had their meetings in Muskogee for a few years , Shorty was the rep and liked a local restaurant . Anyway , I attended several meetings , listened intently to the discussions , laughed at the humor , and tried not to pay attention when club politics were discussed . Don't remember ever being asked if I was an FW devotee ;) Kind of like going to a Tolkien appreciation society meeting W/O having any opinion of the author , smile and genuflect when appropriate , otherwise ... ;D My feelings RE MMGNOC and FW , pro or con, largely remain unknown except to a select few , as they have no bearing on the success or failure of the club .
Dusty
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That's the only reason I belonged, but I've heard it didn't work for some people. They called people on the list for help, and the people were like "why are you calling me?"
I will sort of admit to the 'why are you calling me'.
Years ago, I got a call from a BMW owner (he kept repeating that he was a BMW owner). His fathers Guzzi had broken down about 5 hours from me. He wanted me to go pick him up or help him out. He again restated that he was a BMW owner, and BMWs are awesome. And he lives about 2 hours from where his father was broken down. But since he is a BMW owner, he couldn't be bothered to help out a Guzzi, even if it was his father. And it was his father fault, AND MY FAULT, for his father not getting a BMW. And it was MY fault for not driving 5 hours one way to help out his father, who was just a couple of hours from him. He eventually hung up on me, as I tried to find a good solution to getting his father going again.
Did I mention that he was a superior BMW owner. And his inferior father had purchased an inferior Guzzi.
Nothing new. It just reinforced a generalization about certain people that I already had.
You know what, if it wasn't a work day, I would have tried hard to go meet his father and help him out. Normally, I offer what help I can all of the time to fellow motorcyclists. Well, maybe not BMW people...... :BEER:
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But a core of people seem genuinely hostile toward the MGNOC, toward Frank Wedge, indeed toward the very IDEA of a MGNOC. There is almost virtual spit flying out of their mouths as they damn it up street and down alley for a time-wasting, money-wasting, irrelevant scam, and they want it to go away, and they don't want anyone to belong to it.
I don't understand the third group at all. I don't belong to HOG, nor the CMA, nor the AAA, but if people want to belong to it and pay dues, that's absolutely no skin of my nose. Certainly everyone's entitled to have their opinion and express it here, but I can't figure out the "Why?" in this case ....
Good points! ;-T
As for people being turned down for State Reps who do not belong. "why would a person want to serve if they don't think enough of the club to be a member in the first place?"
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I agree entirely with that sentiment. Now turn on your Betazoid-level empathic powers and explain this please. ;)
Whenever the MGNOC is mentioned, even tangentially, some people (like me) come on and say that they find it a useful thing to belong to, that it's been useful to us in the past, and that we continue to support it. Fair enough, I say.
Other people (like you) say that it's not necessary to belong to the MGNOC to enjoy one's Guzzi, and that it is not as relevant as it was, once upon a time, when the Newsletter had the thick "TIPS" column with the kind of things we talk about on this list today and across the Internet. ALSO fair enough, and probably somewhat true.
But a core of people seem genuinely hostile toward the MGNOC, toward Frank Wedge, indeed toward the very IDEA of a MGNOC. There is almost virtual spit flying out of their mouths as they damn it up street and down alley for a time-wasting, money-wasting, irrelevant scam, and they want it to go away, and they don't want anyone to belong to it.
I don't understand the third group at all. I don't belong to HOG, nor the CMA, nor the AAA, but if people want to belong to it and pay dues, that's absolutely no skin of my nose. Certainly everyone's entitled to have their opinion and express it here, but I can't figure out the "Why?" in this case ....
Lannis
I'm not sure anyone belongs to that third group. I have never heard of it except from you, and it's been debunked whenever it's been mentioned. I think that's a overstatement wound up to hyperbole that only stands up to the most shallow inspection. It's a dog I'm not planning to flog here.
There's however a 4th group -- the FW personality cult, who get combative if anything other than glowing eulagies of FW are given, or if folks disagree with what they imagine FW and his 'club' might be. This group can be identified by their baseless, unverifiable insistence that FW is the yahweh of north american guzzi, and that we should either drink his kool-aid without question or turn in our titles.
And a 5th group -- the group who don't object to an official club, but who feel the MGNOC is misnamed and misrepresented to the point of deceit. These folks also object to 'club' policies regarding participation, decisionmaking, what official events to NOT include in the calendar, etc.
So it's not a simple pidgeonholing of people.
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Email Tony George (his address is at the front of the directory) and tell him to add (or delete) your name. It's pretty simple, but it won't happen by magic. sigh...
My name and phone numbers are on the list; it's accurate. Call me if you're on the road and need help. Virtually all the user names on Wildguzzi are anonymous (mine is not); the names in the MGNOC directory are all real.
Wasn't aware of the process, thanks for the tip. And I can finally stop procrastinating and add my name, more than happy to help any way I can ;-T
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Hyperbole aside, nobody I know of gives anybody a hard time for being an MGNOC member.
The criticisms of the organization are well-known, and I won't bother cataloging them, here.
For me, an enthusiast's "club" that is a for-profit company owned and controlled by one individual, is problematic. As a recent example of why I feel this way, I will point out that Tim Hewitt has been unable to get the Central Florida Camp-Out (Sertoma Youth Ranch, Brooksville, April 3, 4 and 5) listed on the MGNOC Rally Calendar, despite asking Frank Wedge to list this in January of this year. (AFAIK, Tim and Helena are not only MGNOC Members, but the Central Florida Representatives.)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=858348457560759&set=a.182725448456400.46745.100001568373346&type=1&theater
The fact that this event is not listed on the Rally Calendar, for reasons unknown to everyone except maybe Frank, and likely to remain unknown to everyone except maybe Frank, may or may not trouble you. It bothers me. I think it should bother you, but if it doesn't, ignore it and carry on.
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There's however a 4th group -- the FW personality cult, who get combative if anything other than glowing eulagies of FW are given, or if folks disagree with what they imagine FW and his 'club' might be. This group can be identified by their baseless, unverifiable insistence that FW is the yahweh of north american guzzi, and that we should either drink his kool-aid without question or turn in our titles.
Really? And you see evidence of this group innnn ... the Aurora? The Misty Mountains? The Hills of Hyperbole?
Anyway, that sort of makes my point. You're right, no use fighting that dog any more ...
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Craig , that is troubling . Maybe they should have listed the event here , the folks that run WG seem to not mind letting us promote camp outs .
Dusty
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Really? And you see evidence of this group innnn ... the Aurora? The Misty Mountains? The Hills of Hyperbole?
Anyway, that sort of makes my point. You're right, no use fighting that dog any more ...
I saw it as a published comment by a WGNOC member here on this very site who flat out told me in a rather abusive way that if I didn't join the mgnoc and pay my dues because I owe Frank, without whom there would be no guzzis in the usa, then I should sell the bike and buy something else. You were involved in that deleted topic. You should remember it. I compared his position to some SOA enforcer telling me I can't ride a harley unless I pay his club 'protection'. The guy quit WG over it.
So you think this proves that there is a
"core of people [who] seem genuinely hostile toward the MGNOC, toward Frank Wedge, indeed toward the very IDEA of a MGNOC. There is almost virtual spit flying out of their mouths as they damn it up street and down alley for a time-wasting, money-wasting, irrelevant scam, and they want it to go away, and they don't want anyone to belong to it"?
Where is this virolent group? They're not here. Every objection a commenter has had in this topic has been specific and backed up. Until you grabbed the thesarus, everyone was being reasoned and coherent -- nothing hateful or spittle-mouthed about it.
On the other hand, my 4th and 5th groups are here and active. So how about we delete your imaginary third one and move these others up a notch?
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In the immortal words of Rodney King "Why can we all get along?" I am heartily welcomed by members and nonmembers at officially sanctioned rallys and non official NARS. I just want to ride and I want to ride Guzzis. Like any organization join if you like or don't join. :beat_horse Predicting good weather here today, think I'll take a ride through the Misty Mountains up the Hill of Hyperbole. ;D
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In the immortal words of Rodney King "Why can we all get along?" I am heartily welcomed by members and nonmembers at officially sanctioned rallys and non official NARS. I just want to ride and I want to ride Guzzis. Like any organization join if you like or don't join. :beat_horse Predicting good weather here today, think I'll take a ride through the Misty Mountains up the Hill of Hyperbole. ;D
To the Plains of Peace and Plenty . Located just Northwest of the Bolivar Peninsula
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
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It was a hassle for me too, signing back up every year, so I signed up for a Life Membership. No more hassle!!
Lannis
yup.
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Here is another example of why I think that the MGNOC is much less than it pretends to be (or maybe just less than what it used to be), and how this misleads people:
One of my Guzzi friends on Facebook, Reima Saarinen of Finland, recently joined the MGNOC and posted a photo of his "membership kit" on the MGNOC's Facebook page -- a membership card and a sticker, plus the envelope that they came in. (The content is a little bit less than what I got when I joined the ABC Super Saturday Club when I was 8 years old.) Aside form the expected comments -- "I want to join;" "How do I join?" "I joined but never got those, and I can't sign on to the web site(!?)" -- was this gem:
Jimmy Connors: I think it's time we evolved into the MGIOC..... becoming International.. I think the time has come. What say you fellows?
Jimmy Connors: The name change alone would be good enough... but it might encourage those outside the US to form various more local groups... would it be a more welcome gesture? Those outside the US should voice their opinions. Thanks.
Jimmy Connors: The US founders and directors should also say something about this?
Bwhahahaha! Oh, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy.... You obviously have no idea what kind of "organization" the MGNOC is. First and foremost, there is no "we." Second, based on prior examples and incidents, the organization is probably never going to "evolve." Third, "voic[ing]... opinions" will probably have no effect on how the MGNOC is run. Finally, there are no "founders" or "directors" (plural); there is, has been, and always will be one guy calling the shots -- Frank Wedge. He treats the MGNOC like it is his personal property, because... well, because it is.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/328264358708/?fref=nf
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:beat_horse
Give it up.
I don't begrudge Frank in the least bit. It's his business and if there was a bigger pie to cut there would be another organization in the USA but I'm not thinking that is going to happen too soon.
Frank seems like a nice guy, met him once;he helped me get my CX on the center stand. Chuck quote,"shrug"
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Funny how this works. You think Frank is a nice guy because he helped you put your bike on the center stand once.
Chuck has a bad run in with him, where he treats chuck poorly, but Lannis says that's no reason for Chuck not to think Frank is a wonderful human being. ???
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Chuck has a bad run in with him, where he treats chuck poorly, but Lannis says that's no reason for Chuck not to think Frank is a wonderful human being. ???
Is that what I said? Damn, where's the "you changed my words around" critics when you need them so bad? Looks like it's OK sometimes, not OK others.
What's that on the inside of my computer screen? Looks wet ....
Lannis
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::) :pop :BEER:
Matt
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You think Frank is a nice guy because he helped you put your bike on the center stand once.
Brad, If you or Chuck helped me put the CX on the center stand I'd think you were a nice guy too. ;)
PS. And if Frank did to me what he did to Chuck, I wouldn't think that Frank was a nice guy. 8)
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What was the question again? ;D
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:beat_horse
I don't begrudge Frank in the least bit...
For someone who thinks the discussion is played out, you seem oblivious to my point.
I do not "begrudge" Frank the MGNOC, any more than I begrudge you any of your personal possessions.
My point is, from the perspective of its members and the benefits of membership, as well as the image of the organization and the marque that it serves, I believe it is less than an ideal situation for a national owner's "club" to belong to any one individual as a for-profit entity.
The basis of my belief is two-fold:
(1) It is antithetical to the nature of a voluntary association for it to be organized and run by one owner as a for-profit entity; and
(2) It is potentially misleading for an entity to solicit money from potential members and receive money from members as a "club," where the normal connotation of that word is that the organization exists as a not-for-profit entity, run by members elected by the general membership, and where those in charge are directly answerable to the members, when such is not the case.
Also, note that nowhere do my concerns reflect whether Frank's is a "good guy" or a "bad guy." I don't know the guy, so I truly have no opinion on that subject.
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For someone who thinks the discussion is played out, you seem oblivious to my point.
I do not "begrudge" Frank the MGNOC, any more than I begrudge you any of your personal possessions.
My point is, from the perspective of its members and the benefits of membership, as well as the image of the organization and the marque that it serves, I believe it is less than an ideal situation for a national owner's "club" to belong to any one individual as a for-profit entity.
The basis of my belief is two-fold:
(1) It is antithetical to the nature of a voluntary association for it to be organized and run by one owner as a for-profit entity; and
(2) It is potentially misleading for an entity to solicit money from potential members and receive money from members as a "club," where the normal connotation of that word is that the organization exists as a not-for-profit entity, run by members elected by the general membership, and where those in charge are directly answerable to the members, when such is not the case.
Also, note that nowhere do my concerns reflect whether Frank's is a "good guy" or a "bad guy." I don't know the guy, so I truly have no opinion on that subject.
Jeez, You don't seem to understand what is going on here. Frank started this business 30+ years ago when no one gave a flying F about the brand. His business, he makes money from it. So what? If you think you want to beat Frank out of his business why don't you just start another organization and drive him into the ground with your blazing vision? Like I said above, there are probably not enough people around to move on to your organization but if you want to spend your time and your money to get it off the ground then have at it.
I haven't looked at MGNOC since I dropped the membership years ago but I don't remember anything in the fine print that said it was a Not For Profit organization.
Once again, this is a :beat_horse but please, continue to beat it if you must. ::)
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Jeez, You don't seem to understand what is going on here. Frank started this business 30+ years ago when no one gave a flying F about the brand. His business, he makes money from it. So what? If you think you want to beat Frank out of his business why don't you just start another organization and drive him into the ground with your blazing vision? Like I said above, there are probably not enough people around to move on to your organization but if you want to spend your time and your money to get it off the ground then have at it.
I haven't looked at MGNOC since I dropped the membership years ago but I don't remember anything in the fine print that said it was a Not For Profit organization.
Once again, this is a :beat_horse but please, continue to beat it if you must. ::)
Do you understand "what is going on here?" I don't think so, otherwise you would recognize that Frank starting "this business 30+ years ago... " is irrelevant to the issues that I raised. If people want to send Frank their money in recognition of his past service, that's an honorarium, not a fee for "club" membership. What Frank did with his "club" thirty years ago is not a rational basis for membership in a marque club TODAY, or a reflection of the value of such membership TODAY, or an answer to, or justification for, the flaws in "this business."
It's also not about whether Frank "makes money" from "this business." While I believe that an entity such as the MGNOC should be organized as a not-for-profit corporation, I make this assertion based on the legal requirements that a not-for profit corporation has to follow concerning self-governance, operational formalities, record-keeping, reporting, and transparency, all of which are designed to benefit the membership of such an organization, and none of which apply to a for-profit sole proprietorship or close corporation. It appears that you have made the common mistake of confusing not-for-profit with "not profitable."
I have no interest in "beat[ing] Frank out of his business." What I would like to see is the MGNOC evolve into a not-for-profit corporation, for the benefits that this would bring to the membership, potential new and returning members, and the marque, including the ability of the "club" to carry on after Frank is no longer able to continue. I don't think that a competing organization, and the internecine warfare that might result, is the answer. I do not know if such an evolution of the club is possible, but I'd still like to see it happen.
Finally, I never said that Frank was actively misrepresenting the MGNOC as a not-for-profit corporation. What I am concerned about is that it is all too easy for people joining the MGNOC to make that false assumption, given that the business has the words "owner's club" in its name. My concern is based on the fact that an "owner's club" implies a voluntary association, organized as a not-for-profit corporation, owned and controlled by its members. One need only look at the Facebook comments that I copied in my prior post to see that this concern is real.
Stop beating that poor horse and THINK.
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::) :pop :BEER:
Matt
:pop :pop :bow ;-T
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Geez , Luap may have to ban discussion of Frank and MGNOC for the same reason religous topics are banned :o ;)
Dusty
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Do you understand "what is going on here?" I don't think so, otherwise you would recognize that Frank starting "this business 30+ years ago... " is irrelevant to the issues that I raised. If people want to send Frank their money in recognition of his past service, that's an honorarium, not a fee for "club" membership. What Frank did with his "club" thirty years ago is not a rational basis for membership in a marque club TODAY, or a reflection of the value of such membership TODAY, or an answer to, or justification for, the flaws in "this business."
It's also not about whether Frank "makes money" from "this business." While I believe that an entity such as the MGNOC should be organized as a not-for-profit corporation, I make this assertion based on the legal requirements that a not-for profit corporation has to follow concerning self-governance, operational formalities, record-keeping, reporting, and transparency, all of which are designed to benefit the membership of such an organization, and none of which apply to a for-profit sole proprietorship or close corporation. It appears that you have made the common mistake of confusing not-for-profit with "not profitable."
I have no interest in "beat[ing] Frank out of his business." What I would like to see is the MGNOC evolve into a not-for-profit corporation, for the benefits that this would bring to the membership, potential new and returning members, and the marque, including the ability of the "club" to carry on after Frank is no longer able to continue. I don't think that a competing organization, and the internecine warfare that might result, is the answer. I do not know if such an evolution of the club is possible, but I'd still like to see it happen.
Finally, I never said that Frank was actively misrepresenting the MGNOC as a not-for-profit corporation. What I am concerned about is that it is all too easy for people joining the MGNOC to make that false assumption, given that the business has the words "owner's club" in its name. My concern is based on the fact that an "owner's club" implies a voluntary association, organized as a not-for-profit corporation, owned and controlled by its members. One need only look at the Facebook comments that I copied in my prior post to see that this concern is real.
Stop beating that poor horse and THINK.
I understand exactly what you are saying and I can't disagree with it and I can hardly wait for you to start your version of an Owner's Club. I won't join that one either but I will support your effort.
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I understand exactly what you are saying and I can't disagree with it and I can hardly wait for you to start your version of an Owner's Club. I won't join that one either but I will support your effort.
LOL. I am reminded of this:
(http://everybodyeatsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/groucho-marx-quotes-2x-300x300.jpg)
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Geez , Luap may have to ban discussion of Frank and MGNOC for the same reason religous topics are banned :o ;)
Dusty
Hey Dusty,
How's the weather in Okie land??? We're getting more snow tomorrow up here...
....and by the way I agree with you ;-T I just did a search on this same subject and found the same BS in every thread/post. The same people pro and con, and at this point I much prefer another oil thread.....(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/emoticons/coffee.gif) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/emoticons/coffee.gif.html)
Have a great weekend!
Nick
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Hey Dusty,
How's the weather in Okie land??? We're getting more snow tomorrow up here...
....and by the way I agree with you ;-T I just did a search on this same subject and found the same BS in every thread/post. The same people pro and con, and at this point I much prefer another oil thread.....(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/emoticons/coffee.gif) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/emoticons/coffee.gif.html)
Have a great weekend!
Nick
Hello Nick , 50 degrees and rainy here . how bout them ... uh , flat track racers ;D
Dusty
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LOL. I am reminded of this:
(http://everybodyeatsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/groucho-marx-quotes-2x-300x300.jpg)
I was thinking of Groucho when I wrote that line. ;D
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The epitome of :beat_horse ;D
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Tazio and I feel kinda sorry for the horse ;D Hey John , where do you stand on the red/blue controversy ? :D
Dusty
I'm cool with BOTH red AND blue as long as it's in Buddy Guy style polka dots!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o5rJ5PetgY
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I've been a member since 1972 and I renewed my membership in December. It was very difficult to send in that check. I really
don't get anything out of the club anymore. I miss the printed version of the newsletter. Haven't read the on line version in
probably 10 months. Yes I know I can print it out but I don't think I should have to. Every other riding organization
I belong to gives me a paper version to read. I thank Frank for all he's done for the organization. I think without him,
it would have taken many more years before we'd be experiencing the fellowship of riding Moto Guzzis.
My point in responding to this thread is regarding the Help list. It's only good if the people listed keep their data
updated. I desperately needed help a few years ago riding back from the NY rally. I probably called at least
6 people in the immediate area. No one answered the phone. Later that year, I recalled my need of help to
a few people and their reply was "why didn't you call my cell number - I was out riding". WELL....your cell
number was not listed. PLEASE....if you're on the list, make sure it's got your current info.
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It took me several years of emails to get *on* the list. It is still probably on the list. Don't know. Haven't belonged since "the Incident". ;D
I'd still do "whatever it takes" to help a Guzzisti in duress, whether I "belong" or not.. <shrug>
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hey ... I will tell you that Chuck offered to weld the saddle bag rack on my EV.
Since I was trailering & not riding, it wasn't a big deal for me. But KNOWING that it could be fixed eased my mind vs trying to find another rack.
Heck, I'd return the favor and help him to hammer out that bad stud on the drone Guzzi if he needed it and I was there. I'd bring a ball peen with me too.
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Wait John , are you saying Chuckie is a stud hisownbadself :o :D
Dusty
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well all know that Chuck's a stud.
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Frank is not the glue to the Marque. How many people bought a Guzzi, kept a Guzzi or got others interested in a Guzzi because of Frank.
My answer is nobody. Guzzi in the 70s and 80s were selling bikes in Europe hand over foot compared to America because of the market. I never hear of Frank until after I bought a Guzzi.
There was a national Ducati club same as MAGNOC. It was run by a guy Joel E**** I do not remember his last name. Anybody think that Joel owing a a National Ducati club is the reason Ducati took off as one of the top brands in the world. Of course not.
All this talk about Frank is the glue is crazy. That means when Frank dies Guzzi will go out of business. What a laugher.
Frank filled a void in the 70's. For those of you youngins you might not remember that the MC market went belly up. Except for BMW the rest of European manufactures either went belly up or they struggled to keep the doors open. Honda, Kawa, Suzuki came along and built cheap bikes that keep people interested in bikes.
Now we have how many manufacturers world wide?
Frank Wedge made a living off putting together an club of people who owned a somewhat rare unusual Italian MC. That's all he did. He made a living off a group of guys who paid him to put together a newsletter and got guys to write stories (some very good) and got some people to act as sponsors in some states to act as reps to the clubs that put on rallies. He paid no one anything ever. Did he pay the writers for their stories? No. Did he pay the reps to run MGNOC chapters in their respective states? No. All he did was cash the checks guys sent to him to belong. That's cool but it is not glue. It is free enterprise. He took lessons from Tom Sawyer. Good for him but so what. I fail to understand why Frank is some sort of legend. So for those of you who are loyal to him good for you. For the rest who could not care less good for you. I see no one really hating the guy. He is what he is: an entrepreneur of sorts that road a MC to work.
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Well, don't own a Guzzi (yet) but maybe after Suzi the Savage leaves me I will consider; the v-7 looks nice.
1): As to MGNOC - it doesn't seem to hide the fact that people who join "own" Guzzis, not really a surprise.
2): I don't think anyone should begrudge Frank Wedge for starting and owning the club- this is a nation of enterpreneurs. If Moto Guzzi (the corp or MG US) wants to start a club in the US it seems they might want to fight over the name but really, they could call theirs "Official" or "Officially recognized" that would help us poor consumers.
3): It seems that as MG makes more reliable machines, one of the main values of MGNOC is reduced and also, as the machines get more and more complex those on the list will be able to help less and less. We all vote with our checkbooks; and Mr. Wedge's the guy to see if you are interested in the financial viability of MGNOC.
It is the first day of Spring and it is snowing. :beat_horse
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On the other hand.....you can also donate money to the operation of the forum which got the sanction from Frank. ;-T Before the forum, the owner's club was the only way for MG owners to stay in contact with like minded people.
One of the non-stated benefits is the ease of MGNOC owners to open their homes and bikes to other members. ;-T A forum member only. Not so sure if I would extend myself to them.
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On the other hand.....you can also donate money to the operation of the forum which got the sanction from Frank. ;-T Before the forum, the owner's club was the only way for MG owners to stay in contact with like minded people.
One of the non-stated benefits is the ease of MGNOC owners to open their homes and bikes to other members. ;-T A forum member only. Not so sure if I would extend myself to them.
That explains why you make me stay at the hilton when I come out there. ;)
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It sounds like you are just too cheap to pay the annual dues. Man up and send in the money.
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That explains why you make me stay at the hilton when I come out there. ;)
Yeah, what can I say. No room service here. ;D
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I've had a on and off relationship with MGNOC since oh..... 1990ish. Off for now. I did like the paper version. I've met many more Guzzi friends here than I ever did on the MGNOC. Frank Wedge? It's not like he water boarded any one till they paid thier dues, what's the big deal?
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I liked the paper version and don't use the online version much. I continue as a member out of respect to FW and to support the badge (plus I like the decal).
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A little history. If it were not for the MGNOC keeping the marque flying back in the 80's there would be no Guzzis in the USA. Andy Thompson Ind st rep
This is a pretty bold idea. How did MGNOC sell Guzzis? Moto Guzzi is an international corporation that sells far more bikes in Europe than the US.
It is bizarre to think that MGNOC keep Guzzi going in the 80s. US Guzzi sales were a drop in the bucket in the 80s vs the rest of the world.
From WIKI on production figures.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t652/redrider901/Screen%20Shot%202015-03-21%20at%206.02.04%20PM_zps1jg7vg2k.png) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/redrider901/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-03-21%20at%206.02.04%20PM_zps1jg7vg2k.png.html)
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On the other hand.....you can also donate money to the operation of the forum which got the sanction from Frank. Before the forum, the owner's club was the only way for MG owners to stay in contact with like minded people.
Exactly. When Frank gave the ok to Luap.. must have had something against Roy Harvey, the webmaster of the MGCL, a text only MG list.. I thought, "Frank, you are making your newsletter superfluous." WG will have information and pictures long before the print newsletter comes out. I still paid my dues for years, though, although there was little in the newsletter that wasn't already posted on WG.
Other than...
Some of the articles written by guys like Daniel, Mark, Jamie, Kip, Rand.. I'll quit because I'll no doubt forget someone.. were worth the price of admission. Until The Incident.. ;D
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It sounds like you are just too cheap to pay the annual dues. Man up and send in the money.
... says the New Goose with zero dollars donated here.
Bwahahaha! That's it! You've cracked the case! Bravo!
/sarcasm
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I will be in it as long as I go to rallies. 34 yr. member. Pessimissim is the cheap and easy way.
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could someone explain why this Forum needed the permission of Frank to exist ? I am clearly ignorant of the intricacies of setting up a Forum but cannot see why his permission (sanction) was required.
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Well i look at it this way.....how many people would give $30.00 to be part of an "owners club" IF UPFRONT it stated that said "owners club" would not even help ($) with any regional rallies AND not even help out ($) for the NATIONAL rally! The state reps should NOT have to loose their own money if the rally falls short on any given year.
I would think that is one of the WORST business model to ever use..... I wolud think an "owners club" would want to improve rallies,help them grow....bring MORE people into the brand.....and of course bring more paying owners into your club.
The current MGNOC is not a "owners club" to me..... FRAUD is more like it.
Hell I don't have any dog in this fight...I'm still searching for my first Guzzi.....but if 3200 people want to send me $30.00 a year for a "sub owners club" I'll make sure to spend the money to help the club GROW.
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could someone explain why this Forum needed the permission of Frank to exist ? I am clearly ignorant of the intricacies of setting up a Forum but cannot see why his permission (sanction) was required.
It was a courtesy thing. There was no requirement.
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Well i look at it this way.....how many people would give $30.00 to be part of an "owners club" IF UPFRONT it stated that said "owners club" would not even help ($) with any regional rallies AND not even help out ($) for the NATIONAL rally! The state reps should NOT have to loose their own money if the rally falls short on any given year.
I would think that is one of the WORST business model to ever use..... I wolud think an "owners club" would want to improve rallies,help them grow....bring MORE people into the brand.....and of course bring more paying owners into your club.
The current MGNOC is not a "owners club" to me..... FRAUD is more like it.
Hell I don't have any dog in this fight...I'm still searching for my first Guzzi.....but if 3200 people want to send me $30.00 a year for a "sub owners club" I'll make sure to spend the money to help the club GROW.
Well, maybe you could send some of the money you're saving on MGNOC dues to Wild Guzzi? They're certainly helping you get your FRAUD message across, even though you've got "no dog in this fight" ...... Just a suggestion. There's no requirement at all .....
Lannis (I'm running out of "I'm In The Third Group" pins this week, you may have to wait ...) :D
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"But a core of people seem genuinely hostile toward the MGNOC, toward Frank Wedge, indeed toward the very IDEA of a MGNOC. There is almost virtual spit flying out of their mouths as they damn it up street and down alley for a time-wasting, money-wasting, irrelevant scam, and they want it to go away, and they don't want anyone to belong to it."
Well i look at it this way.....how many people would give $30.00 to be part of an "owners club" IF UPFRONT it stated that said "owners club" would not even help ($) with any regional rallies AND not even help out ($) for the NATIONAL rally! The state reps should NOT have to loose their own money if the rally falls short on any given year.
I would think that is one of the WORST business model to ever use..... I wolud think an "owners club" would want to improve rallies,help them grow....bring MORE people into the brand.....and of course bring more paying owners into your club.
The current MGNOC is not a "owners club" to me..... FRAUD is more like it.
Hell I don't have any dog in this fight...I'm still searching for my first Guzzi.....but if 3200 people want to send me $30.00 a year for a "sub owners club" I'll make sure to spend the money to help the club GROW.
Well, maybe you could send some of the money you're saving on MGNOC dues to Wild Guzzi? They're certainly helping you get your FRAUD message across, even though you've got "no dog in this fight" ...... Just a suggestion. There's no requirement at all .....
Lannis (I'm running out of "I'm In The Third Group" pins this week, you may have to wait ...) :D
Maybe I'm not seeing the spittle, or maybe I'm too far north to feel it, but I really don't get why you're saying this is a third-group comment. It's not even new ground. I don't see any hatred of Frank, of the mgnoc, any spittle, or "make it go away". I do see an opinionated someone who objects to the business model, thinks it's counterproductive, and gives reasons based on the things that have been said in this topic. So educate me -- group three, or you're just trading in innuendo? While you're at it, tell us who all else has been awarded your pin, and why?
On the other hand, you're rather cloddishly leaning on someone to give money to luap. I thought that was settled earlier.
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Even if MGNOC was a nonprofit that would not change a thing. People who work for nonprofits take salaries they do necessarily not work for free. There are clubs that charge a fee and clubs that do charge a fee. Frank is not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes by charging a fee for access to his newsletter and whatever else he provides for that fee.
For more on nonprofits see "How to make money off a nonprofit".
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/make-money-nonprofit-organization-935.html
Someone said "What Frank did with his "club" thirty years ago is not a rational basis for membership in a marque club TODAY, or a reflection of the value of such membership TODAY, or an answer to, or justification for, the flaws in "this business."
What has changed in the last 30 years since Frank started MGNOC? Only 1 thing...... the internet. That's it folks.
MGNOC is probably the under the sole proprietary ownership of Frank Wedge. Just like I am the sole proprietary owner of my own chapter S corporation.
The ideas that
1. Frank saved the Marque from going bankrupt in the 80s is ludicrous
2. That Frank should somehow turn this into a non profit so MGNOC can continue after he croaks is meaningless and ludicrous.
3.Either someone starts a new organization or they collectively get together on WG or some other site and make their rallies known to the public.
Ton UP has rallies every year and does quite well thank you without Frank Wedge. They are a nonprofit club that sells products on the internet and charges to enter a bike to be shown in the events.
Really these guys do it for the love the machine and the events they put on: but money still passes hands. Ton Up is one kind of club and MGNOC is another kind of club.
I could not care less if Frank makes millions off his MGNOC. I think the grunts on the ground who put up the rallies deserve the gold star for working their butts off for little if no money.
As for where would I rather hang out. Well I like rallies a whole bunch but I can get a "Guzzi" fix anytime I want it just by opening the lid on my computer machine anytime of the day or night.
And as for tips well what I have seen happen in realtime on WG since I joined 2 years ago is crazy impressive with the knowledge and willingness of folks to help each other out. And watch it unfold in realtime is a blast. And dare I say we talk about out dogs, and spouses, wood burning stoves and other bikes we own even god forbid they are not Guzzi's and sometimes about guns oh no not guns... ;D
So for me Frank is pass'e but MGNOC still seems to be thriving and GOOD for those who belong and GOOD for Frank if makes a buck off it. He just doesn't get my buck. And may all the rallies be jammed packed and rain free this year. And may WG survive hackers and all the rest of the scum bags who are trying to jam up the internet.
I for one do not care a bit about what MGNOC should or should not be. It is what it is and who freaking cares. This is worse than having a fight with my :wife: Either join MGNOC and have a good time or do not join and have a good time. WTF is this craziness about. ??? ??? Frank Wedge and MGNOC..... so what. Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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It is what it is and who freaking cares.
Amen.
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Seriously , Spring is here for most of us , and will make an appearance shortly for you guys up North . Let's attend some events , sanctioned or not . For those of you unable to attend for health or other reasons , maybe we can include you in the fun with the use of social media , or simply conference calls on speaker phone.
Dusty
I WANT A LIVE WEB CAM FROM CEDAR VALE. HOW ABOUT IT D-MAN CAN YOU GET SOMEONE TO PULL IT OFF.
SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE 4G ACCESS AND PUT IT UP. BE THE FIRST TO DO A LIVE WEB CAM OF A GUZZI HANGOUT. :D ;D ;)
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Even if MGNOC was a nonprofit that would not change a thing. People who work for nonprofits take salaries they do necessarily not work for free. There are clubs that charge a fee and clubs that do charge a fee. Frank is not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes by charging a fee for access to his newsletter and whatever else he provides for that fee.
For more on nonprofits see "How to make money off a nonprofit".
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/make-money-nonprofit-organization-935.html
Someone said "What Frank did with his "club" thirty years ago is not a rational basis for membership in a marque club TODAY, or a reflection of the value of such membership TODAY, or an answer to, or justification for, the flaws in "this business."
What has changed in the last 30 years since Frank started MGNOC? Only 1 thing...... the internet. That's it folks.
MGNOC is probably the under the sole proprietary ownership of Frank Wedge. Just like I am the sole proprietary owner of my own chapter S corporation.
The ideas that
1. Frank saved the Marque from going bankrupt in the 80s is ludicrous
2. That Frank should somehow turn this into a non profit so MGNOC can continue after he croaks is meaningless and ludicrous.
3.Either someone starts a new organization or they collectively get together on WG or some other site and make their rallies known to the public.
Ton UP has rallies every year and does quite well thank you without Frank Wedge. They are a nonprofit club that sells products on the internet and charges to enter a bike to be shown in the events.
Really these guys do it for the love the machine and the events they put on: but money still passes hands. Ton Up is one kind of club and MGNOC is another kind of club.
I could not care less if Frank makes millions off his MGNOC. I think the grunts on the ground who put up the rallies deserve the gold star for working their butts off for little if no money.
As for where would I rather hang out. Well I like rallies a whole bunch but I can get a "Guzzi" fix anytime I want it just by opening the lid on my computer machine anytime of the day or night.
And as for tips well what I have seen happen in realtime on WG since I joined 2 years ago is crazy impressive with the knowledge and willingness of folks to help each other out. And watch it unfold in realtime is a blast. And dare I say we talk about out dogs, and spouses, wood burning stoves and other bikes we own even god forbid they are not Guzzi's and sometimes about guns oh no not guns... ;D
So for me Frank is pass'e but MGNOC still seems to be thriving and GOOD for those who belong and GOOD for Frank if makes a buck off it. He just doesn't get my buck. And may all the rallies be jammed packed and rain free this year. And may WG survive hackers and all the rest of the scum bags who are trying to jam up the internet.
I for one do not care a bit about what MGNOC should or should not be. It is what it is and who freaking cares. This is worse than having a fight with my :wife: Either join MGNOC and have a good time or do not join and have a good time. WTF is this craziness about. ??? ??? Frank Wedge and MGNOC..... so what. Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
We have a winner in the Annual MGNOC WEDGE Winter fest essay contest ;D :BEER:
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We have a winner in the Annual MGNOC WEDGE Winter fest essay contest ;D :BEER:
Yea that makes 2 votes for me! :D ;D :BEER: :+1
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On the other hand, you're rather cloddishly leaning on someone to give money to luap. I thought that was settled earlier.
I don't have an official copy of the settlement agreement, but the minutes of the last business meeting said something about not using the "f*********" word any more when referring to that subject. So I'm not! ..... ;D
Lanns
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Even if MGNOC was a nonprofit that would not change a thing....
I beg to differ. What you wrote is simply, legally, factually incorrect.
As I wrote earlier:
It's also not about whether Frank "makes money" from "this business." While I believe that an entity such as the MGNOC should be organized as a not-for-profit corporation, I make this assertion based on the legal requirements that a not-for profit corporation has to follow concerning self-governance, operational formalities, record-keeping, reporting, and transparency, all of which are designed to benefit the membership of such an organization, and none of which apply to a for-profit sole proprietorship or close corporation.
As I acknowledged immediately after the above, not-for-profit does not mean "not profitable." Frank Wedge or any future President of the MGNOC could draw a salary for their work, but as a not-for-profit, that salary would have to be approved by a board of directors who themselves are answerable to the membership, and disclosed in financial statements distributed to the membership. Compare that to the present situation, where nobody but Frank knows the finances of the Club, Frank takes from it whatever he wants -- as compensation for as much or as little work as he chooses to do, and nobody else has any say in these or any other operational matters.
For the life of me, I can't understand what is so difficult to understand about this point. It seems to me that at a minimum, having a valid opinion on whether the MGNOC should continue as a close corporation or sole proprietorship (not really sure which of the two it is; the MGNOC web site gives no indication, and the Kansas Secretary of State has nothing on record regarding the organization), or should be organized as a not-for-profit corporation, requires that you know that there are substantial differences between these types of business entities. It makes a difference. Whether that difference is important to current or prospective members is a fair point for debate, but saying that re-organizing the MGNOC as a not-for-profit corporation "would not change a thing" is absurd.
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I WANT A LIVE WEB CAM FROM CEDAR VALE. HOW ABOUT IT D-MAN CAN YOU GET SOMEONE TO PULL IT OFF.
SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE 4G ACCESS AND PUT IT UP. BE THE FIRST TO DO A LIVE WEB CAM OF A GUZZI HANGOUT. :D ;D ;)
here it is. Hard to tell the live image from an old photo. ;D
But here it is live: ;)
(http://www.cedarvalekansas.com/clients/875954/5894422_sta.jpg)
just keep looking....you'll see a cloud or stray dog..........see, there it is
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Fellas , our opinions don't make one whit of difference . Sorry , but that is the truth , and arguing over the way that the club does business is nothing more than a hoo hah waving contest . Let it go , Frank doesn't care .
Dusty
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Frank doesn't care .
If it mattered to the membership and/or prospective members, would it matter to Frank?
Maybe someone here who has a relationship with Frank can ask him.
As I indicated, I am in favor of evolution, rather than revolution.
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I beg to differ. What you wrote is simply, legally, factually incorrect.
As I wrote earlier:
It's also not about whether Frank "makes money" from "this business." While I believe that an entity such as the MGNOC should be organized as a not-for-profit corporation, I make this assertion based on the legal requirements that a not-for profit corporation has to follow concerning self-governance, operational formalities, record-keeping, reporting, and transparency, all of which are designed to benefit the membership of such an organization, and none of which apply to a for-profit sole proprietorship or close corporation.
As I acknowledged immediately after the above, not-for-profit does not mean "not profitable." Frank Wedge or any future President of the MGNOC could draw a salary for their work, but as a not-for-profit, that salary would have to be approved by a board of directors who themselves are answerable to the membership, and disclosed in financial statements distributed to the membership. Compare that to the present situation, where nobody but Frank knows the finances of the Club, Frank takes from it whatever he wants -- as compensation for as much or as little work as he chooses to do, and nobody else has any say in these or any other operational matters.
For the life of me, I can't understand what is so difficult to understand about this point. It seems to me that at a minimum, having a valid opinion on whether the MGNOC should continue as a close corporation or sole proprietorship (not really sure which of the two it is; the MGNOC web site gives no indication, and the Kansas Secretary of State has nothing on record regarding the organization), or should be organized as a not-for-profit corporation, requires that you know that there are substantial differences between these types of business entities. It makes a difference. Whether that difference is important to current or prospective members is a fair point for debate, but saying that re-organizing the MGNOC as a not-for-profit corporation "would not change a thing" is absurd.
It does not matter what you think. It is none of your nor my business how Frank operates MGNOC. If you did you homework as it seems you have, you checked registered corporations in Kansas (BTW it could be registered in a different state) and it is not listed. Frank can still run it as a business under his SS#.
MGNOC has nothing to to with international Moto Guzzi corporation. Frank is not an advisor on any Guzzi board. He is just some dude from Kanas who runs a club. It's like selling lemonade. All it is is a freaking club of guys who belong to an a motorcycle club which goes by the name of MGNOC. Probably all of them own motorcycles and all of them own or have owned a Guzzi. Owning a Guzzi is not required but paying dues is. So freaking what. Frank does not have put shit up on his website about what money he makes. It's his business. I do not tell people how much money my business makes.
People who buy Guzzi's are interested in a million things when they buy a Goose and I'll bet you my place down here on the river with 10 acres to your dime that not one person thinks about Frank Wedge and MGNOC when they drop their dime for a bike. Not the guy who is buying a rat bike Guzzi off ebay nor the guy who is buying a dressed new California. :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse :beat_horse
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^^^ You have completely missed my point.
If it's "nobody's business" how Frank operates the MGNOC, the it's NOT A CLUB.
EDIT: Yes, I am well aware that the MGNOC has the word "club" in its name. Labeling it a club does not make it so. (The fact that the MGNOC purports to be a club when it really is not is, as I have said, one of my concerns regarding the organization.)
A wikipedia definition does not make it so.
A club is generally a membership, fraternal or service organization, which is run by its members, is accountable to its members, and exists for the benefit of its members. Since that does not describe the MGNOC, it is not really a club.
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Probably be a better discussion for the MGNOC facebook page for sure. According to a post there they have 2,611 members and I believe you have to join the MGNOC to be one.
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I don't have an official copy of the settlement agreement, but the minutes of the last business meeting said something about not using the "f*********" word any more when referring to that subject. So I'm not! ..... ;D
Lanns
Your cognitive skills are more developed than I thought. A little work on the concept of 'context' and we'll have your reading understanding level up to 3rd grade.
But what about the rest of it? You said that there are so many group three haters in this discussion that you've run out of imaginary awards. Nothing to show us that these haters exist anywhere but in your head?
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^^^ Wow. You have completely missed my point. I cannot state it any clearer. Sad.
Okay, one last try: If it's "nobody's business" how Frank operates the MGNOC, the it's NOT A CLUB.
You mean that is your only point? MGNOC is not a club? Well why didn't you say so.
I wasted all my time and all those words only to find we were having a discussion about semantics. Crap I bet I have 1 or 2 more people who have now blocked cause they either hate Frank or think I am anal.
BTW WIKI says MGNOC is a club.
From WIKI:
Club
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the type of organization of formal or informal membership. For other uses, see Club (disambiguation). A club is an association of two or more people united by a common interest or goal. A service club, for example, exists for voluntary or charitable activities; there are clubs devoted to hobbies and sports, social activities clubs, political and religious clubs, and so forth.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t652/redrider901/Screen%20Shot%202015-03-23%20at%204.31.55%20PM_zpsr0owdqac.png)
(http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/redrider901/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-03-23%20at%204.31.55%20PM_zpsr0owdqac.png.html)
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Your cognitive skills are more developed than I thought. A little work on the concept of 'context' and we'll have your reading understanding level up to 3rd grade.
But what about the rest of it? You said that there are so many group three haters in this discussion that you've run out of imaginary awards. Nothing to show us that these haters exist anywhere but in your head?
Gotta love it RK. ;-T
I am still trying to find the post about various groups of haters. I had no idea there are 3 groups of haters. :D :D
You would think this is the middle of winter and everybody is at each others throats cause they haven't had their bikes fired up in months and they are all stir crazy.
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Probably be a better discussion for the MGNOC facebook page for sure. According to a post there they have 2,611 members and I believe you have to join the MGNOC to be one.
I don't think so.
I am a member of the MGNOC Facebook "group", but I haven't been a member of MGNOC for years.
Something tells me the membership of the MGNOC Facebook page has little correlation to the membership of MGNOC proper.
I'm also a member of Moto Guzzi World Club "group" on Facebook, but am not a member of that club either.
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I think Naked hits the nail on head. It's really not a "club" when when one guy owns it.
That might not change anything or how anyone feels. But it might shape some attitudes and assumptions where people are coming from when they talk about it.
No disrespect to anyone, MGNOC or otherwise here. But Naked makes a fair point.
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<sigh> The world will probably keep on turning. Does all this really matter in the big scheme of things? ;D
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<sigh> The world will probably keep on turning. Does all this really matter in the big scheme of things? ;D
Wow that is so profound, I might start calling you yoda ;D
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<sigh> The world will probably keep on turning. Does all this really matter in the big scheme of things? ;D
it must matter to anyone that comments on this thread?
<shrug?
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there are many "clubs" that are privately owned for profit enterprises. Look at any of your fitness "clubs" for an example. (or Sam's "Club", HomeShopping "Club" et.al.). Club just defines the membership strategy, it has nothing to do with whether it is for profit or not.
I really don't understand the angst here, if you like MGNOC join MGNOC, if not, don't. Why the religious furor on both sides?
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there are many "clubs" that are privately owned for profit enterprises. Look at any of your fitness "clubs" for an example. (or Sam's "Club", HomeShopping "Club" et.al.). Club just defines the membership strategy, it has nothing to do with whether it is for profit or not.
I really don't understand the angst here, if you like MGNOC join MGNOC, if not, don't. Why the religious furor on both sides?
there are many "clubs" that are privately owned for profit enterprises. Look at any of your fitness "clubs" for an example. (or Sam's "Club", HomeShopping "Club" et.al.). Club just defines the membership strategy, it has nothing to do with whether it is for profit or not.
I really don't understand the angst here, if you like MGNOC join MGNOC, if not, don't. Why the religious furor on both sides?
This is not about religious furor. This is not about MGNOC. This is about the English language. English linguistics defines the many manifestations of the meaning of "Club". Anybody who insists that MGNOC is not a club really needs to read the dictionary. :pop
One thing all clubs have in common, the one universal factor that makes them alike it that they have "members" who belong because of a common unifying theme: something that brings them all together. Nowhere in the many variations of the definition of "club" does it say that a club cannot have a single person who owns it and runs it like Frank Wedge. Tennis clubs and golf clubs may have a group of members who oversea its organization and make sure the members follow the rules which often includes fees. I am not sure Frank has any rules except that you pay a fee to belong to the "club". How does one belong to MGNOC if they do not pay a fee? They do not belong if they do not pay. After all the rules state you pay or you are not a member. Read you computer dictionary; its right there in plain simple English. Go online and it's there in plain simple language. There are multiple ways for a club to be organized including various mechanisms for ownership. It can be private; it can be nonprofit. It can have fees, it can be free. So Frank Wedge's Club is a club and that he has hundreds of members who pay to belong to the club proves it. So Naked can say whatever he wants but he cannot change to linguistics and make up his own definition of "club". That is left to scholars not motorcycle enthusiasts.
As they say in politics a person is entitled to his own beliefs but one is not entitled to his own facts.
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I agree that the MGNOC is a club in the same way that Sam's Club is a club.
Come to think of it, I belong to at least one club:
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/youcanrunnaked/club_zpsyo1jms2d.jpg)
The Flanigan's Lunch Club is a club: a group of people bound together by their mutual interest in... lunch. Only six more to go, and I get a free lunch.
If you are relying on Wikipedia or Webster's to counter my arguments, or are citing examples like a fitness club or Sam's Club (or the ABC Super Saturday Club), then you have no idea what I am getting at. The MGNOC is a flawed business model for a motorcycle enthusiast's club, for the reasons I have previously stated.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/MEMBERS_ONLY_jacket_tag.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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MGNOC Life member.
Don't care if you are or are not.
Not many people will attend rallies where the focus is riding anymore. The ride to the camp site. A Saturday ride of a couple hundred miles, just to ride in a large loop. The ride home. A large campfire, conversation, fancy booze and cigars for Friday and Saturday evening entertainment. And, oh my, sleeping in a minimal shelter.
I miss those simple rallies. MGNOC and IBMC used to be very similar formats.
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Not many people will attend rallies where the focus is riding anymore. The ride to the camp site. A Saturday ride of a couple hundred miles, just to ride in a large loop. The ride home. A large campfire, conversation, fancy booze and cigars for Friday and Saturday evening entertainment. And, oh my, sleeping in a minimal shelter.
I miss those simple rallies. MGNOC and IBMC used to be very similar formats.
I can assure you that every rally I've attended for 10 years has been a very simple rally, just as you've described. That's because I MAKE it simple (even when I cook dinner for the group)! If what you want to do is exactly what you said above, then that's just what you do. Lots and lots of other people will be doing the same thing, or you can go join the young geeky guy who doesn't leave his corner of the campground, with his FJ1300, his jar of peanut butter, loaf of Wonder Bread, and have a good chat .....
Lannis
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I agree that the MGNOC is a club in the same way that Sam's Club is a club.
Come to think of it, I belong to at least one club:
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/youcanrunnaked/club_zpsyo1jms2d.jpg)
Only six more lunches to go, and I get a free lunch! Milton Friedman was wrong! Yipee!
If you are relying on Wikipedia or Webster's to counter my arguments, or are citing examples like a fitness club or Sam's Club (or the ABC Super Saturday Club), then you obviously have no idea what I am getting at. I can make a case for the MGNOC being a flawed business model for a motorcycle enthusiast's club, but I can't teach critical thinking skills. Sorry.
Oh so you are not talking about clubs but instead MGNOC being a flawed business model for a motorcycle enthusiast's club. Wow change of subject . But you I thought you were saying that it should be a non profit. Now I am really confused cause things keep changing. I just cannot keep up you Naked as the subject keeps changing. This is so funny cause it just a freaking bunch of motorcyclists that pay dues to Frank. Now seeing that you do not have access to his books I fail to understand how you know it is a flawed business model. The guy has gotten 30 years out it and he has not gone belly up.
Frank says he has 3200 members @ $30/year = $96,000 year gross. Haven't a clue as to his expenses but I would say max $25K which leaves him @ $71K before taxes. So the dude's making a living. And my guess is Larned Kansas pop 4000 is a pretty cheap place to live. So my bet is Frank has done just fine. Bad business model and all.
As for critical thinking and business models I know a little bit about running a business.
I ran a clinic at Duke University Hospital for 16 years that had in the 80s-90s a $1.5 million budget. I have had my own very successful private practice since 2001. I'm no millionaire but I am solvent and owe nobody a single penny.
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My MGNOC lifetime membership was equivalent of 7 years (maybe 5 years) of membership. That was 2007.
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Oh so you are not talking about clubs but instead MGNOC being a flawed business model for a motorcycle enthusiast's club. Wow change of subject .
No, I am saying that the MGNOC is not a club, in the sense of what that means for an enthusiast or hobby group.
Yes, the MGNOC is a club, in the same way that the Flanigan's Lunch Club is a club. ::)
It's a nuanced argument. I am not changing the subject.
The MGNOC represents a flawed business model because it takes in money while providing no services or goods, uses the efforts and financial risks of regional representatives and rally organizers without giving them anything tangible in return, and continues to exist mainly on the cult of personality that the sole owner has cultivated among its shrinking and aging membership. There is only so long that such an organization can exist, and in the meantime, it is squandering opportunities to build its membership and generate interest and excitement among its members and beyond.
Also... "flawed" does not necessarily mean unsuccessful or unprofitable.
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No, I am saying that the MGNOC is not a club, in the sense of what that means for an enthusiast or hobby group. It's a nuanced argument, which is probably why you can't understand it.
Yes, the MGNOC is a club, in the same way that the Flanigan's Lunch Club is a club. ::)
It's a flawed business model because it takes in money while providing no services or goods, uses the efforts and financial risks of regional representatives and rally organizers without giving them anything tangible in return, and continues to exist mainly on the cult of personality that the sole owner has cultivated among its shrinking and ageing membership. There is only so long that such an organization can exist, and in the meantime, it is squandering opportunities to build its membership and generate interest and excitement among the membership.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Yes...it can only last perhaps another x-years. It has such a short history.
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Yes...it can only last perhaps another x-years. It has such a short history.
I get the sarcasm and I hope you are right. Believe it or not, I am not rooting for the Club's demise. In the meantime, what about those missed opportunities?
Look, maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe enough people will continue to be happy to put on and be on the hook for "sanctioned" rallies that are MGNOC in name only; that have no support from the National, save for a calendar listing. (If even that; see my prior post about the Central Florida Rally.) Maybe enough people will be pleased as punch to pay $30/ year (or $300 /lifetime) for a sticker and a membership card and little else -- under the mistaken belief that this is somehow "supporting the marque;" or because Frank Wedge is such a fixture in the Guzzi community and he deserves the support; or for whatever reason or for no reason.
I just happen to think that we, as a community, would be better served by a club that belonged to all of us, where we each had an equal say it how it was run, where we all had an equal opportunity to participate, where we all knew how much money was going in and from where, where we all knew how much money was going out and for what and to whom, which we could all count on as a true national resource to assist in local endeavors, and which had the backs of any of us who went out on a financial limb for the group.
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I just happen to think that we, as a community, would be better served by a club that belonged to all of us, where we each had an equal say it how it was run, where we all had an equal opportunity to participate, which could be counted on as a true national resource to assist in local endeavors, and which had the backs of anybody who went out on a financial limb for the group.
Go on, then. With the energy spent so far just on this thread, the "equal opportunity" club could be halfway there.
If you gotta shoot, shoot, don't talk.
Lannis
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^^^ Here's my problem. I can see a competing or "rival" club splitting the community and engendering ill-will. That's not my intention. Quite the opposite, as the main reason for a "better" MGNOC would be to foster a greater sense of community.
Can the MGNOC be reformed from within? Several people have told me that is never going to happen, but, what if....?
I guess I could join the MGNOC as a "reformer," and see what happens, but as a new member, I believe I would lack credibility and will likely be seen as a rabble-rouser. I think I would at least need the support of a few long-time MGNOC members who see this issue as I do. Even then, would we be welcomed by the membership? Despised? Met with apathy? I don't know. If anyone who has a long history with the MGNOC wants to explore this with me, feel free to PM me.
This really is a dead and buried horse by now, so I will leave it at that. I don't intend to comment on the subject any more except via PM, or unless I have something more tangible than ideas to offer.
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No, I am saying that the MGNOC is not a club, in the sense of what that means for an enthusiast or hobby group.
Yes, the MGNOC is a club, in the same way that the Flanigan's Lunch Club is a club. ::)
It's a nuanced argument, which is probably why you can't understand it.
The MGNOC represents a flawed business model because it takes in money while providing no services or goods, uses the efforts and financial risks of regional representatives and rally organizers without giving them anything tangible in return, and continues to exist mainly on the cult of personality that the sole owner has cultivated among its shrinking and aging membership. There is only so long that such an organization can exist, and in the meantime, it is squandering opportunities to build its membership and generate interest and excitement among its members and beyond.
And to confuse you further... "flawed" does not necessarily mean unsuccessful or unprofitable.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
"It's a nuanced argument, which is probably why you can't understand it." Oh really? :bow
It's not nice to be condescending and patronizing naked. ::(
"I can explain it to you". ::) :D ;)
You can? Well hot dang then how about doing it? ;-T Sooner rather than later cause this is wearing little old me down trying to figure out the nuanced flaws in MGNOC.
Meantime I going for some :pop while the entertainment continues. But really stay away from the put downs as they are not necessary. Soon the PC :+=copcar will appear and I will never get my answer cause this thread will get
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t652/redrider901/_79221709_51423410_zps8379b5b3.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/redrider901/media/_79221709_51423410_zps8379b5b3.jpg.html)
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Join up and contribute! Frank is looking for writers and rally reports. ;-T
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(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/bridge.jpg)
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^^^ Here's my problem. I can see a competing or "rival" club splitting the community and engendering ill-will. That's not my intention. Quite the opposite, as the main reason for a "better" MGNOC would be to foster a greater sense of community.
Can the MGNOC be reformed from within? Several people have told me that is never going to happen, but, what if....?
I guess I could join the MGNOC as a "reformer," and see what happens, but as a new member, I believe I would lack credibility and will likely be seen as a rabble-rouser. I think I would at least need the support of a few long-time MGNOC members who see this issue as I do. Even then, would we be welcomed by the membership? Despised? Met with apathy? I don't know. If anyone who has a long history with the MGNOC wants to explore this with me, feel free to PM me.
You're kidding right. I mean you cannot be serious about this. This is a freaking itsy bitsy teenie weenie motorcycle club and Frank doesn't even serve lunch. He gets the other guys to do it. Tom Sawyer's got nothing on Frank. People remember the fence scenario it because it's so clever. Tom tricks a bunch of boy into thinking that work – the thing that he doesn't want to do – is fun, so that he can spend the afternoon goofing off (and collecting dues). He even get the boys to pay him (collecting dues) for the "privilege" of painting (belonging to his motorcycle club). He turns punishment into pleasure, and pleases Aunt Polly in the process. Everybody dreams of this kind of thing. http://www.shmoop.com/tom-sawyer/fence-symbol.html
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(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/bridge.jpg)
Well seeing that I am 6'5" I'll be the giraffe even though I am taking a direct hit to the head . And shit I left my helmet at home with my :bike :BEER:
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It's not nice to be condescending and patronizing naked. ::(
You are correct and I apologize and will edit my entries accordingly.
However, I will point out that while you continue to accuse me of changing the subject, or changing the argument, if you go back and read everything that I have written on this subject, it has been all of a piece and of one note since the beginning. So, either you are being disingenuous by claiming that you can't make sense of my argument, or you are being obtuse. If the former, well, it isn't working, as plenty of others seem to know exactly what I am getting at (whether they agree with me or not), and if the latter... well, either way, I should not have mocked you.
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People who are internet dependent do not comprehend how other people can function without constant internet usage.
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Craig and Harvey , both of you guys are well known to me , and are both very intelligent and decent guys . However , this has degenerated into a hoo hah waving contest , might be time for a reset . Heck , be mad at me for , well ... something , I can fade the heat ;) :D
Dusty
His Honor has spoken. ;D We should take heed to his words of wisdom cause me thinks the Duster is trying to stop a fight from brewing here. ;-T
I for one am embarrassed that I have continued this idiocy on my part. But I gotta say one more thing before I go............ :D
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People who are internet dependent do not comprehend how other people can function without constant internet usage.
I spent a week in the Sangre de Cristso mountains of New Mexico last July with little to no cell, wi-fi, TV, or even radio access.
It was awesome! Wish I could live on that old ranch, 30-miles up a gravel road.
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I spent a week in the Sangre de Cristso mountains of New Mexico last July with little to no cell, wi-fi, TV, or even radio access.
It was awesome! Wish I could live on that old ranch, 30-miles up a gravel road.
Well yeah , but you would get bored , evergreens and mule deer never need a moderator ;D
Dusty
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We should take heed to his words of wisdom....
:BEER:
;-T
;)
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Join up and contribute! Frank is looking for writers and rally reports. ;-T
This is one big area where I am lacking. I've wanted to submit a my first Guzzi write up for years, but have just been too lazy to do so. Heck, the time I spend on face book or watching tv could be put toward writing. You notice I didn't mention my time on here, well, this stuff is important!
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All of the posts on this thread are fueled by a shared passion for MG.