Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: smdl on February 24, 2013, 06:02:17 PM
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Greetings, all.
Well, with my Eldorado project winding down, I was beginning to miss tinkering with a Guzzi, and felt compelled to pick up another project. So, last weekend, I brought this home:
http://tinyurl.com/cukt2wu
This weekend, I spent some time cleaning it up, giving it an oil change, and freeing up all the stuff that was stuck as a result of it sitting for the past several years. In particular, one of the carb slides was completely frozen, and it took a bit of work to get it moving. Once that was done, I was able to attach a charged battery, and she fired right up! Before anyone gets worried, the engine is a 950 with iron liners, so no chrome to worry about.
The bike has a couple of issues that I hope forum members might be able to help with, so I will add posts about those shortly. I'll also plan to post updates, now and then, as the project progresses.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Greetings, all.
Well, with my Eldorado project winding down, I was beginning to miss tinkering with a Guzzi, and felt compelled to pick up another project. So, last weekend, I brought this home:
http://tinyurl.com/cukt2wu
This weekend, I spent some time cleaning it up, giving it an oil change, and freeing up all the stuff that was stuck as a result of it sitting for the past several years. In particular, one of the carb slides was completely frozen, and it took a bit of work to get it moving. Once that was done, I was able to attach a charged battery, and she fired right up! Before anyone gets worried, the engine is a 950 with iron liners, so no chrome to worry about.
The bike has a couple of issues that I hope forum members might be able to help with, so I will add posts about those shortly. I'll also plan to post updates, now and then, as the project progresses.
Cheers,
Shaun
Where's the project 850 you said you picked up ;)? It can't be the orange and white one in the picture cause that bike looks like a daily runner!
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As many know from buying bikes remotely, pictures can be deceiving! Overall, it's solid, but it needs a LOT of work. That's okay, though, as that is exactly what I was looking for. I'm thinking of putting a sign up outside my garage that says "Guzzi Rescue". ;D
Cheers,
Shaun
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Excellent and congrats Shaun. Remind me ...where have I seen that bike before?
Harry
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Okay, first issue that I'm hoping for some help on:
The previous owner had been struggling with some issues, and did not have the time/ability to work on it himself, so the bike had sat idle for some time. He told me that the engine was making a rattling noise, and that several attempts had been made to resolve it. I don't have all the details, but I believe this included valve train adjustment/work, rod bearings and at least one piston. However, these efforts did not resolve the issue, and apparently an experienced mechanic had suggested that the engine "might have the wrong pushrods" in it. Once I got the bike running, I immediately heard what they were describing -- an incredible amount of top-end clatter. Now, please understand that I know what Guzzi's sound like as I have two others, including one with exactly the same engine. I expected the valvetrain to be noisy, but this was truly unusual!
It is always very difficult to convey things like noises verbally, so I have made up a short video, and posted it on YouTube. Not sure if this will successfully convey it either, but here goes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qawW6DV7WTs&feature=player_detailpage
Note that the noise is definitely coming from the top end, and is very loud on both sides, but slightly louder on the right.
I have already pulled the valve covers, and everything looks normal in there, but I will naturally check the clearances. Once the engine cools down completely, I will re-torque the heads and complete a valve adjustment. However, with the understanding that this has been attempted before, is there anything else I should be checking while I am in there?
As an aside, I checked compression today with the engine hot, and it registered 65 on left, and 110 on right (forgot to hold throttle open). I will check again once I have everything adjusdted and balanced, but it looks like I will be spending some time on the inside of this engine. Not really an issue as I would have done so regardless (just to be sure), and I am planning a few performance enhancements anyway.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Excellent and congrats Shaun. Remind me ...where have I seen that bike before?
Harry
Thanks, Harry. Ummm, perhaps in your own garage? :) For those reading, Harry owned this bike a number of years ago (I also know the owner previous to him!).
Shaun
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Check the rocker arm shafts for wear. They and the arm bushings can wear out due to the oiling holes getting clogged with bits of stuff like timing chain tensioner rubbing block fragments.
My old T made a horrible sound and couldn't set the valves properly.
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Looks like a a great bike! Keep us posted.
Cheers
Jim
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Check the rocker arm shafts for wear. They and the arm bushings can wear out due to the oiling holes getting clogged with bits of stuff like timing chain tensioner rubbing block fragments.
My old T made a horrible sound and couldn't set the valves properly.
Thanks, Two-Checks. This is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for.
Shaun
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Looks like a a great bike! Keep us posted.
Cheers
Jim
Thanks, Jim -- will do. A few false starts, but I'm glad to be moving on something now. By the way, I have really been enjoying following your V7S project -- truly inspiring!
Shaun
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is the 850T a cult bike?
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/guzziinmntns.jpg)
if so I'm an original member
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/11acfbfa.jpg)
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is the 850T a cult bike?
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/guzziinmntns.jpg)
if so I'm an original member
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/11acfbfa.jpg)
Hey, Foto. Not a bad cult to be a member of! I have to admit, though, that I am going to be messing with this one. I'm looking to build something a bit more sporting this time, so we'll see how things come out.
Question for you -- what saddlebags are those on the second picture you posted (and maybe the first)? I have those exact same bags on my bike, and would be intersted to know what they are.
Thanks,
Shaun
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maybe Califia? note the hump on top, I fabbed a box for my CB radio from fiberglass.. when i got on the air they always thought I was a semi truck from all the background noise, there were no lip mics back in the day. I did fab up speakers in my helmet.
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Hmmm, okay, thanks. Interesting mod for the CB!
Shaun
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Shaun
Let me know if you need any help and remember my cache of spares. Don't forget to "rescue" the spare rear wheel fro Rosey Toes.
Harry
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Thanks, Harry -- I'll be in touch.
Shaun
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Hi, folks.
Well, I finished stripping the T down to the bare frame today, so will be starting on the sub-assemblies next. Not surprisingly, I found that much of the bike has been worked on before, and I suspect that many aspects are not original (which is fine). However, I would like to get a good feel for how things were originally arranged, and wonder if anyone might have some good pictures of an original bike with the seat up and the tank off? I would especially like to see how the wiring and electrical components are configured.
Any help would be appreciated!
Cheers,
Shaun
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sorry, bad wide shot and it's a Convert but the cable routing is the same as a T.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/EVert%20project/DSCN1455-1.jpg)
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Nice find, I am doing the same with an 1975 850T but it is in pretty bad shape, I have it torn down to the frame also, the engine will be the challenge for me, I looking at a 2 year build, I built a powder coat oven so most of the bike will be powder coated. I will post pics when there is some real progress.
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Thanks, foto. Hmmm, looks like a fair number of differences with some of the electrical and braking stuff having been moved down behind the side covers. Still, this is a helpful guide.
Cheers,
Shun
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Nice find, I am doing the same with an 1975 850T but it is in pretty bad shape, I have it torn down to the frame also, the engine will be the challenge for me, I looking at a 2 year build, I built a powder coat oven so most of the bike will be powder coated. I will post pics when there is some real progress.
Sounds good. Let's definitely compare notes as we go along. I'll look forward to seeing how your powder coating comes out!
Shaun
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Hey Shaun! Where's the updates???
Chad.
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Hey Shaun! Where's the updates???
Chad.
Hey, Chad.
Hmmm, "updates" would probably be an indication that there had been some "progress". Unfortunately, between spring yard work, fighting a horrible cold for the past few weeks, and working day and night, "progress" now seems more of a theoretical concept than a potential reality. Hope to get back at it soon.
Cheers,
Shaun
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On the valve train clatter you might check the pushrods. The PO on mine fitted new jugs but used the old round hole gaskets and it bent the pushrods and chewed through the metal rings on the gasket. With the bent pushrods the valve lash was variable making crazy noises. I fitted the oval hole gaskets and photoguzzi gave me some pushrods, Thanks!, and now it purrs like a kitten.....till the shift spring broke ::(
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On the valve train clatter you might check the pushrods. The PO on mine fitted new jugs but used the old round hole gaskets and it bent the pushrods and chewed through the metal rings on the gasket. With the bent pushrods the valve lash was variable making crazy noises. I fitted the oval hole gaskets and photoguzzi gave me some pushrods, Thanks!, and now it purrs like a kitten.....till the shift spring broke ::(
Thanks, dl. I did actually get the heads off, and found that everything in the top end pretty much looked okay. Pushrods looked fine, rockers were not worn unevenly, shafts looked okay for the most part (one maybe had a slight tight spot). However, what I did find was that the bike has a set of Agostini gears on it, and the ring nut holding the crank gear on was almost completely backed off. That allowed the gear to slide for and aft about half an inch, and I imagine that such movement might well have caused somr clatter. I'm wondering if this might have been the source of the noise, possibly transfering to the cam gear and up through both top ends. Both seemed noisy, and it was difficult to pinpoint where the noise was coming from.
As soon as I get some time, I will finish stripping the engine and see what else I come across. I'd like to think that I have already identified the issue, though... :D
Cheers,
Shaun
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Hi Shaun
So that is where I put my ago gear set. Glad you found them...for me? You are probably right that the backed off nut is the source of the noise. The engine was strong when I had the bike and as part of upgrading the clutch I installed the gears. Phil had told me that the engine was a rebuilt T3 that came with the bike during his ownership of it. Good luck with the project.
Harry
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A loose pushrod end will clatter too.
Yes, I can imagine it would, but the pushrods all look good, and the ends appear tight. Will take a closer look before I start reassembly.
Thanks,
Shaun
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Hi Shaun
So that is where I put my ago gear set. Glad you found them...for me? You are probably right that the backed off nut is the source of the noise. The engine was strong when I had the bike and as part of upgrading the clutch I installed the gears. Phil had told me that the engine was a rebuilt T3 that came with the bike during his ownership of it. Good luck with the project.
Harry
Hi, Harry.
Well, I'm not married to the Agos, by any means. If you want them, maybe we can arrange a swap for something? FYI, I actually picked up the proper tool for installing and removing them without damage.
Let's arrange a time to get together soon. I wouldn't mind picking up that plate when convenient.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Hi Shaun
I'm around all summer this year but spending all my time in the studio. I've finished the cx100/gsxr project and its turned out looking a little like a mini griso. These tonti bikes are fabulous and each iteration is just another world of possibilities. The shock and fork mods I did to the calvin over the winter have blunted my cal1400 lust. The calvin stays. I'll call in the near future and remember the spare engine/transmission I have.
Harry
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Shaun, here are some pix of the electrical components as arranged on an early 850T. I believe the placement to be as built. The wires going to the components may have likely been changed along the way. If you need a pix of something else- let me know.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a492/MikeNyz/IMG_0822_zps792d8472.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/MikeNyz/media/IMG_0822_zps792d8472.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a492/MikeNyz/IMG_0817_zps5116e06a.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/MikeNyz/media/IMG_0817_zps5116e06a.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a492/MikeNyz/IMG_0824_zps75484b79.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/MikeNyz/media/IMG_0824_zps75484b79.jpg.html)
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Hi Shaun,
I missed this thread (in the UK when it started) and just noticed it for the first time. You're a glutton for punishment, aren't you. If you make this one anywhere near as pretty as your Eldo, it will be a lovely bike. It's odd - I used to dislike the look of the 850-T series tanks - now I think they are elegant. It just goes to show that one's opinions need not be written in stone.
Good luck with this one
Nick
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Hi Shaun,
I It's odd - I used to dislike the look of the 850-T series tanks - now I think they are elegant. It just goes to show that one's opinions need not be written in stone.
I agree and I also love the way it has been painted. That orange and white does everythign right. There are so many ways to be wrong with one of these tanks and the options that they enable but this one has it nailed.
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Zee10 -- thanks for the great images! This will be very helpful for me as I start to put things back together.
Shaun
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Hi Shaun,
I missed this thread (in the UK when it started) and just noticed it for the first time. You're a glutton for punishment, aren't you. If you make this one anywhere near as pretty as your Eldo, it will be a lovely bike. It's odd - I used to dislike the look of the 850-T series tanks - now I think they are elegant. It just goes to show that one's opinions need not be written in stone.
Good luck with this one
Nick
Hi, Nick. Good to hear from you! Yes, a bit of a glutton for punishment, but I suspect that you also know a thing or two about that...
Agreed on the 850-T tank -- I have actually purchased a 750S3/Le Mans tank for this project, but the T unit continues to grow on me. It could well end up on another project, at some point. Thanks for the kind words about the Eldo -- wish it sounded as nice as yours!
Hope you had a great trip in the UK. Looking forward to catching up at Lavinge -- Carl is playing at the tavern on Thursday, so I will really be looking forward to that.
Cheers,
Shaun
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I agree and I also love the way it has been painted. That orange and white does everythign right. There are so many ways to be wrong with one of these tanks and the options that they enable but this one has it nailed.
Yes, the orange and white is quite striking. Phil Tunbridge, MGNOC Ontario Rep, get's full credit for that! He had the paint done many years ago when he owned the bike.
Shaun
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Well, I can't believe that over two years have passed since I started this project, but between an intense multi-year project at work, and several interim projects in the garage, it's taken me a while to get back on track. The Norge project has been sold to Phil (he just finished and licensed it yesterday!), the Stelvio has been farkled to my satisfaction, the V11 has received a bit of attention, and the Eldo has a new windshield. So, while the others will need a few tweaks, here and there, the lift table is clear for the first time in over a year! So, this project -- 850-T transformation into a 750S tribute -- will take prominence again! My build will never be up to the quality of one of Jim's or Charlie's or Joe's, etc., but I will make an attempt at documenting things as they come together.
Having extracted a broken bolt in the bellhousing last night (the one holding the breather pipe), I'm now at the point of reassembling the engine. The crank pin has been ground third-undersize and has been polished. New 88mm Gilardonis have been sourced. Rotating assembly has been balanced (BIG difference front to rear!), including the lightened flywheel and ring gear (which was way out of balance). Heads were rebuilt by Charlie, after machining and mild porting by his machinist. Cam was reground to B10 spec by Colt Cams, and I have a new set of PHF36 carbs (courtesy of Turin) that will go on a set of custom manifolds from George Dockray. Exhaust is a full SS Mistral system.
Here's where I am hoping for some input from those more experienced than I. My goal is not to make this a fragile, unreliable garage-queen, but just to wake up the performance to make the bike a little more fun. We're dealing with 1970's technology here, so I don't see any point in trying to extract every last ounce of performance out of the engine. If I want to go faster, I can easily jump on the Stelvio and go way faster, all while carrying my camping gear, if I choose. :) Considering these thoughts, does it make sense to dig deeper to confirm/alter compression ratio, and, given that the cam profile has changed slightly, should I be concerned about carefully checking valve to piston clearance? I want to do what makes sense, and is logical, without going overboard.
What say you? Do you guys look to optimize compression etc? If so, how do you go about it? I have gone through a few motors over the years, but primarily focused on reliability rather than performance.
Thanks,
Shaun
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Here's a bit of encouragement for you Shaun. She's not as pretty as something Jim might have put together, but she ain't no garage queen. Clocked about 250 kms this morning - running like a dream with an R100S and a KTM 990. These 70's bikes can still hold their own!
Nick
(http://www.adamsheritage.info/images/apr19_2015_1.jpg)
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Very encouraging, Nick, and not a coffee shop in sight! **C
Thanks very much for hanging with me on this one. I'm going to enjoy working through getting her roadworthy. Maybe I'll even manage to finish in time for the Ontario rally, this year!
Cheers,
Shaun
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Okay, gotta start somewhere. Well, the garage was a real disaster after jamming so much in there over winter. So, I spent some time on it, and while still disastrous, I now at least have some space to work:
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1283%20Med_zpss8jld69f.jpg)
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1284_zpssdbjowsp.jpg)
I'm very fortunate to have as much space as I do, but hope to get it insulated and heated, one day. Still a lot of cleanup needed, and about 3 more trips to the dump! All the boxes on the floor contain the various (mostly new/reconditioned) parts for this project, and I am just going through and sorting them out. I remember this stage of the Eldo build, and it's fun going through all the sub-assemblies that are already done, and anticipating getting it all back together.
Having stripped the engine completely (seemingly ages ago), I needed to deal with the bolt that snapped off in the bellhousing. I'm trying to remind myself to take pictures, but have never been all that good at doing so. I did take one of the removal process, where I was using left-handed drill bit to hopefully coax the bolt out.
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1282%20Med_zpsp9s0d0ce.jpg)
Unfortunately, that didn't work, so I ended up using a small bolt extractor to remove it, which worked well. I really don't like using them, but slotting and drilling didn't work, so that seemed the next best step. Will definitely use anti-seize going forward.
Finally, here's a shot of the frame with fresh powder-coating. For those in the area, I can't recommend Len at Edge Coatings enough. He is more careful with my projects than I am!
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1287%20Med_zpsmel3ss8i.jpg)
Edit: I should mention that I really wanted to go with the proper narrow front end for this bike. Jim (canuck750) has been extremely helpful in locating the parts needed for this, and even supplied the lower triple tree. Thanks, Jim!! The upper was sourced from Harper's, and the narrow hub assemblies from HMB in Germany. A few other pieces, such as the steering damper and lock, came from Teo Lammers. I'll show some more of this when I get to the point of assembling the front end.
That's all for now. Will try to remember to take pictures as I go along.
Cheers,
Shaun
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I'm very fortunate to have as much space as I do, but hope to get it insulated and heated, one day.
With a slab on grade, just insulating it well will do a lot to keep it warm in winter and cool in summer, even if you don't heat or cool it right away. It'll also go a long way in preventing rust.
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It's going to be a fantastic machine, keep us informed of your progress and please post pictures ;-T
Cheers
Jim
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With a slab on grade, just insulating it well will do a lot to keep it warm in winter and cool in summer, even if you don't heat or cool it right away. It'll also go a long way in preventing rust.
Thanks, (Triple) Jim.
Yes, I have been thinking of proceeding with the insulation, but there are some needs first. I need to wire for power throughout, but I need a better feed for the garage first. The main power feed is on the far side of the fully-finished house, and I only have a single 15 amp circuit that was run into the garage. So, I need to put a new panel for the house, run a line all the way to a new sub-panel in the garage, wire the garage, then insulate. I'll get there (if I ever stop obsessing with motorcycles :D), but it will take some time. Doors are already insulated, though, which does help a lot with the heat in summer!
Cheers,
Shaun
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It's going to be a fantastic machine, keep us informed of your progress and please post pictures ;-T
Cheers
Jim
Will do, Jim.
Thanks again for all your help (and great example)!
Shaun
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Thanks, (Triple) Jim.
Yes, I have been thinking of proceeding with the insulation, but there are some needs first. I need to wire for power throughout, but I need a better feed for the garage first. The main power feed is on the far side of the fully-finished house, and I only have a single 15 amp circuit that was run into the garage. So, I need to put a new panel for the house, run a line all the way to a new sub-panel in the garage, wire the garage, then insulate. I'll get there (if I ever stop obsessing with motorcycles :D), but it will take some time. Doors are already insulated, though, which does help a lot with the heat in summer!
Cheers,
Shaun
Code permitting, you should be able to insulate before adding wiring if you want to. In a garage I normally use EMT for anything exposed, and staple to the wood at the ceiling. I don't know about the code where you are though. For a garage back in MD I would have had to have all the insulation and wiring covered with drywall, and the seams taped, so I'd be forced to do the wiring and insulation at the same time. Here I used plain batts, and covered them with fire retardant foil, so I can add wiring any time.
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Good info, thanks. I'll do some checking to see what we can do here. A friend of a friend is an electrician, and he said he would be willing to come by to have a look.
Cheers,
Shaun
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It's great that you have a connection to an electrician. I was amazed at how much better iron/steel things like my lathe and mill held up once I insulated my place. I've had guys stop by in the early summer when I didn't have the air conditioning running, and think it was, and a similar thing in the late fall when it felt like I was heating when I wasn't.
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Hi, folks.
With my Stelvio and Eldo issues, this summer, I haven't made as much progress on the T as I would have liked to. However, I'm currently waiting on parts for the Stelvio, so thought I would get a bit more done on this project.
Pistons and cylinders in:
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1482%20Med_zpsskvpeoqr.jpg)
Heads going on:
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1486%20Med_zpsvoo6czmr.jpg)
Went to put the rocker stands and rockers on, and found substantial wear on one of them:
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1488%20Med_zpsyhkc5sit.jpg)
Mark Etheridge indicated that I could sand these, but given that this one was so much worse than the others, I decided to replace this one. Mark has one on the way to me now.
Will keep posting as I make progress, but I will be back on the Stelvio for a few weeks. I am also going to pick up a '74 civilian Eldo project soon, and will have to find some room to store that until this project is done.
More to come as it happens.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Looks like we are on similar paths.
Were you able to source all the parts for the narrow front end? I didn't realize how many problems the wide front end was going to cause on mine. How about the fork ears and a rear fender?
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When I did my bike, I got the front wheel bearing flanges cut down 7.5 mm thinner on each side.( This was done to bring in the fork tubes from 195mm to 185mm center to center) These days those items may be available from HMB Guzzi in Germany or Guzziladen may also have them. Don't forget to check with Curtis Harper first , though. As per the headlight ears or rear V7 Sport fender , no one has any at his time ( unless Curtis Harper has some NOS items stashed away). 850LM1 triple clamps should work fine and look the part ( just got mine powder coated and couldn't tell they are different from the V7 Sport save the threaded nub on the lower triple clamp for the lower fairing mount on the LM, which can be used to mount the brake splitter on the T.
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Looks like we are on similar paths.
Were you able to source all the parts for the narrow front end? I didn't realize how many problems the wide front end was going to cause on mine. How about the fork ears and a rear fender?
Hi, Kevin.
Yes, I was able to get everything I needed for the front end, but it did take some doing. Jim Carey (Canuck750) has been immensely helpful in providing both the bottom yoke and the headlight ears. For the latter, he had an original pair that had cracked and had been repaired. Not perfect on the inside, but that's not visible, so I'm not concerned. He also machined my FAC dampers to work properly with the instrument mounts. Pretty good guy, all around! :bow:
The upper yoke came from Harper's (thanks, Curtis), and the carriers and axle came from HMB. They actually have a full kit now, which makes things easier:
http://www.hmb-guzzi.de/shop/Chassis-and-Frame/Wheels-Rims/Wheel-Parts/Front-wheel-flange-set-narrow--750-S3-etc-.html (http://www.hmb-guzzi.de/shop/Chassis-and-Frame/Wheels-Rims/Wheel-Parts/Front-wheel-flange-set-narrow--750-S3-etc-.html)
I'm really excited to get this project finished!
Cheers,
Shaun
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When I did my bike, I got the front wheel bearing flanges cut down 7.5 mm thinner on each side.( This was done to bring in the fork tubes from 195mm to 185mm center to center) These days those items may be available from HMB Guzzi in Germany or Guzziladen may also have them. Don't forget to check with Curtis Harper first , though. As per the headlight ears or rear V7 Sport fender , no one has any at his time ( unless Curtis Harper has some NOS items stashed away). 850LM1 triple clamps should work fine and look the part ( just got mine powder coated and couldn't tell they are different from the V7 Sport save the threaded nub on the lower triple clamp for the lower fairing mount on the LM, which can be used to mount the brake splitter on the T.
Great info!
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Hi, folks.
Okay, with the Stelvio clutch, the Eldo u-joint and the V11 Le Mans headlight bushings behind me (what a year!), I am finally able to get back to my 750S tribute project.
Engine finally reassembled.
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1617%20Med_zpsfjz4ecan.jpg)
Ready to be mated to the gearbox.
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1619%20Med_zpsp5wxr1iz.jpg)
Major milestone (millstone?) achieved, and it was a great experience to begin depleting some of my parts caches, knowing that they will actually be staying permanently on the bike, this time. Hopefully, the warm weather will hold on, and I will be able to carry on with the assembly over the next week or two. Wish me luck!!
Edit: Fixed pictures.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Engine finally reassembled.
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1605%20Med_zpstwlqxalg.jpg)
Wow! Carbs out the front, exhaust out the back? :wink:
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Yes, thanks, Charlie. I had a good chuckle at my own expense earlier. I have fixed that already, but used the wrong set of pictures. Too tired, I think (probably from having to do all that again). Sometimes you have to laugh, or you will cry.
Shaun
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Wow! Carbs out the front, exhaust out the back?
Cool :drool:
Now for the finicky pedants. :violent1:
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Yes, thanks, Charlie. I had a good chuckle at my own expense earlier. I have fixed that already, but used the wrong set of pictures. Too tired, I think (probably from having to do all that again). Sometimes you have to laugh, or you will cry.
Shaun
Well, at least you didn't send two of the same side head off to the machine shop like I did! Engine(s) came to me in parts, customer said use the best parts with engine number 5xxxx. Grabbed the best heads, but didn't notice they weren't a left and right... :embarassed:
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Well, at least you didn't send two of the same side head off to the machine shop like I did! Engine(s) came to me in parts, customer said use the best parts with engine number 5xxxx. Grabbed the best heads, but didn't notice they weren't a left and right... :embarassed:
No, but I'm sure I could easily have done so, given the chance! :boozing:
Shaun
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Hi, folks.
Small update today. I was finally able to successfully adjust the clutch push rod length, and get the engine mounted to the gearbox. That meant I was able to begin bolting pieces to it again!
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1855%20Med_zpsl81fyqpa.jpg)
I know it doesn't look like much, but it is incredibly satisfying to begin putting the bike back together.
It will be dropping to -20C, this weekend, so it will probably be at least a couple of weeks before I can do too much more, but it's only a matter of time, now.
Cheers,
Shaun
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The drive train looks great Shaun, getting the engine and transmission reacquainted is a big milestone! The hard work is now behind you.
Keep us up top date with your pictures :thumb:
Cheers
Jim
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The drive train looks great Shaun, getting the engine and transmission reacquainted is a big milestone! The hard work is now behind you.
Keep us up top date with your pictures :thumb:
Cheers
Jim
Thanks, Jim. Not anywhere near the standard of your work, but I am building this bike as a nice rider, and it doesn't need to be perfect. I'm really looking forward to getting this one done, so I can get started on the next one. That was going to be my '74 civilian Eldo, but I recently picked up a 1968 Triumph TR250 (car), and I think I'll have a go at that first. All great fun!
As always, I'm following your projects with great interest!
Shaun
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Thanks, Jim. Not anywhere near the standard of your work, but I am building this bike as a nice rider, and it doesn't need to be perfect. I'm really looking forward to getting this one done, so I can get started on the next one. That was going to be my '74 civilian Eldo, but I recently picked up a 1968 Triumph TR250 (car), and I think I'll have a go at that first. All great fun!
As always, I'm following your projects with great interest!
Shaun
An early Triumph, I am jealous! :bow: :bow:
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Hi, folks.
More progress this weekend. Still slow, but slow is better than none!
After getting the frame back together, I started messing with the controls. I'm using Agostini rearsets on it, which are made for a rear disc brake bike, and I am going to need to remove a boss on one of the small triangular brackets on the footpeg mounts. I need to keep the bracket for support of the drum brake linkage, but the boss for the T shifter (not needed anymore) gets in the way of the Agostini shifter, so I'll need to remove it.
Oh, well. That's what you get when you adapt something meant for a different purpose. I also need to track down some longer M12 bolts for the crash bar mounts, and find some M12x1.25 nuts for the foot peg mountings, so I'll stop in at the bolt place tomorrow. Overall, looks like the controls are going to work very well with these changes along with a spacer that a friend is kind enough to be machining for me. I need the spacer as I am using a shortened version of the stock Guzzi brake pedal arm rather that the Agostini piece (made for disc MC).
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1870%20med_zps0xgquvzq.jpg)
Still lots of work to do, but it is gratifying to see it beginning to look like a motorcycle again. It's also really nice to start getting parts out of boxes, and onto the bike for (hopefully)the last time.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Lookin good :thumb:
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Hope you find an solution to use Agostinis on the 850T with drumbrake
i am very interested
cheers from Germany and my 850T
Helmut
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8806/16422823323_c75a36e1ed_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r2egdg)
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Hope you find an solution to use Agostinis on the 850T with drumbrake
i am very interested
cheers from Germany and my 850T
Helmut
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8806/16422823323_c75a36e1ed_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r2egdg)
Hi, Helmut.
Yes, I was able to get the Agostinis working fine with the help of some past posts here on WG. I'll take some pictures and post them tonight or tomorrow.
What I am interested is your use of Lafranconi Competiziones with a drum rear brake. How did you make the linkage work? Or did you use a cable? Let's have an exchange of information... :cool:
Cheers,
Shaun
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Okay, here is some information on how I have used the Agostini rearsets.
Here is the left side:
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1897%20Med_zpswi93am4n.jpg)
The only thing I had to do with this is trim the boss that supported 850-T shifter shaft to make clearance for the Agostini linkage. I still need to smooth it out a bit, and then get it powder coated again, but it should work fine.
Here is the right side:
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1898%20Med_zpsgyy86jnz.jpg)
As the Agostinis are designed to be used with a rear disc brake, I couldn't use the brake pedal that came with their kit. Instead, I had a spacer machined to replace it, and I will cut down the stock brake pedal to fit. This is a trick that at least a couple of people have used to good effect (Geodoc and tpeever, as I recall). The spacer is in currently in natural stainless, but I will have it powder coated black once everything is complete.
I'm not sure if you will get away with the brake pedal mod in Germany, as I know they are very strict there, but they might not even notice. :angel:
Everything seems to be working just as expected, but I will post again once I get the brake pedal modified.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Nice work Shaun, I think I see a set of those in my future.
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Hi, folks.
Okay, a bit more done today:
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1904%20med_zpsnaa0hr74.jpg)
Tomorrow will be almost 10C, so I plan to spend a few more hours in the garage. I think I will plan to put the swingarm, rear drive and shocks on. If I have time, I'll start working on the front (after mounting the alternator).
Cheers,
Shaun
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Nice work Shaun, I think I see a set of those in my future.
Thanks, Jim. They're nicely made. I initially mounted them without the passenger peg mounts as I don't plan to carry a passenger. Then, I realized that those mounts also support the exhaust, so they will go back on tomorrow! Two steps forward, one step back...
Cheers,
Shaun
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Hi, Helmut.
Yes, I was able to get the Agostinis working fine with the help of some past posts here on WG. I'll take some pictures and post them tonight or tomorrow.
What I am interested is your use of Lafranconi Competiziones with a drum rear brake. How did you make the linkage work? Or did you use a cable? Let's have an exchange of information... :cool:
Cheers,
Shaun
Strange responding to my own message, but I zoomed in to Helmut's picture, and it looks like the rear brake shaft is still in place, and that the Lafranconi pipes clear it just fine. If that's the case (please let me know, Helmut), then I will have a tough decision to make. Do I go with my set of Lafranconis, or with the full Mistral set that I bought because I thought the Lafranconis wouldn't fit a drum brake bike? The LF pipes fit this bike perfectly (they are specifically made for it), but the Mistral's are a work of art, and also have the option of DB-killer or not.
Any opinions?
Thanks,
Shaun
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Thanks, Jim. They're nicely made. I initially mounted them without the passenger peg mounts as I don't plan to carry a passenger. Then, I realized that those mounts also support the exhaust, so they will go back on tomorrow! Two steps forward, one step back...
Cheers,
Shaun
Hi Shaun,
I also have the agostini footpeg kit, and while it is very well made it didn't fit with the lafranconis. The bracket for the passenger footpegs is in the way when you try to mount them. It might be possible to mount them on the inside of the brackets but I ended up making a new pair of exhaust brackets.
Looking forward to see if you can get them to fit without fouling the passenger footpeg brackets.
-Ulrik
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Hi Shaun.
sometimes its hard to explain special things in my bad school english... mea culpa
as i told you i will take some pics in the next days. hope they will explain better what i have done
cheers
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Hi Shaun,
I also have the agostini footpeg kit, and while it is very well made it didn't fit with the lafranconis. The bracket for the passenger footpegs is in the way when you try to mount them. It might be possible to mount them on the inside of the brackets but I ended up making a new pair of exhaust brackets.
Looking forward to see if you can get them to fit without fouling the passenger footpeg brackets.
-Ulrik
Thanks, Ulrik. Yeah, I can see how that might be a problem. I'm going to try test-fitting the Mistrals before I do any more with the Lafranconis. If neither fit well, I will have to make some mounts, as you describe. If you happen to have some picture of the mounts you fabricated, I would really appreciate seeing them.
Will keep you posted on my progress.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Hi Shaun.
sometimes its hard to explain special things in my bad school english... mea culpa
as i told you i will take some pics in the next days. hope they will explain better what i have done
cheers
Hi, Helmut.
Actually, I think your written description was very good, and I can understand where you made changes to both the triangular bracket and the seam on the Lafranconis. However, I think the pictures will still be very helpful. Looking forward to them!
Cheers,
Shaun
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Thanks, Ulrik. Yeah, I can see how that might be a problem. I'm going to try test-fitting the Mistrals before I do any more with the Lafranconis. If neither fit well, I will have to make some mounts, as you describe. If you happen to have some picture of the mounts you fabricated, I would really appreciate seeing them.
Will keep you posted on my progress.
Cheers,
Shaun
Hi Shaun, I only have pictures from when it is mounted on the bike with the exhausts. But it shows the problem pretty well.
The bracket is very basic made from 5mm mild steel flat bar bend two places to get the offset correct.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/e4d20a2f-e4c5-49d4-ac35-82935e1288c5.jpg)
I don't have any pictures of the bracket up close but I made a little cad drawing of it. Will post it when I manage to get it uploaded.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/exhaust%20bracket.png)
-Ulrik
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Hi Shaun, I only have pictures from when it is mounted on the bike with the exhausts. But it shows the problem pretty well.
The bracket is very basic made from 5mm mild steel flat bar bend two places to get the offset correct.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/e4d20a2f-e4c5-49d4-ac35-82935e1288c5.jpg)
I don't have any pictures of the bracket up close but I made a little cad drawing of it. Will post it when I manage to get it uploaded.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/exhaust%20bracket.png)
-Ulrik
Sorry I didn't see this post before, Ulrik. Great information, thanks!
Cheers,
Shaun
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Time for an update again, I suppose. It really doesn't look like I have accomplished a lot, but I have worked through several issues, and things are therefore much more certain that before.
First of all, I have finally completed the Agostini rearset installation. A machinist friend helped me by turning a longer set of threaded peg supports that were needed to fit these to an 850T with a drum rear brake. The cross-shaft for the brake linkage is supported by two triangular plates, one on each side, that are added at the point where the lower frame rails bolt to the frame, and where the footpegs mount. The extra thickness of these plates means that the threaded supports that come with the rearsets are not long enough to allow the nyloc nuts to fully engage, so longer ones are a must. If used on a disc brake bike, those supplied work just fine.
I did try to test-fit the two exhaust systems to see how that would work, but it was clear that until the the foot controls (including rear exhaust hangers) were mounted, it wouldn't be possible to truly confirm how the exhaust fit. There are just too many moving pieces to be able to accurately tell. So, it became a matter of addressing one piece at a time, establishing a solid foundation, and then building up from there. With the foot controls done, the next thing is to get the swingarm, rear suspension and rear drive installed, which will really let me see how the exhaust needs to be positioned. Unfortunately, when I went to install the swingarm, I noticed that the powder coater had coated inside where the carrier bearing sits. Naturally, with the thickness of the coating, there is no way the bearing will fit in there. The guy who does my powder coating is usually excellent with this sort of thing, and he did avoid the swingarm bearings, but just forgot that this area mattered. So, he now has the swingarm back in his shop, and is stripping and re-shooting it this week.
In the meantime, I have been working on the front end, having assembled the FAC dampers to the damper rods and attached the Wirth springs, I installed them in the tubes, and mounted the tubes into the lower triple clamp. This allowed me to mock up the swan neck bars, headlight brackets, headlight and upper triple clamp. In the process, I have been able to sort out how to mount the 850-T headlight, which I have decided to use in place of the traditional 750S headlight. Why? Because I had already worked with Gregory Bender on developing a wiring harness based upon the T, and that would have had to change a lot to accommodate a 750S headlight. I actually really like the look of the T headlight, so I am good with how this is coming out.
Here is a shot that shows the large range of motion allowed by the swan neck bars:
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1949%20Med_zpsnjzg0yel.jpg)
Also installed is the Euro MotoElectrics alternator:
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1942%20Med_zpssk7y5yf7.jpg)
Here another shot that shows some of the mock up.
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/SAM_1945%20Med_zpsdjblaxae.jpg)
The above shot shows the Verlicchi swan necks installed, but I have since decided to go with the replicas of the original factory swan necks. The only issue with those is that they come with aluminum bar-end plugs in them, and I need to remove them in order to use bar-end mirrors. Will try to get to that next weekend.
Handlebar controls have been test-fit, and it looks like they will work fine with the range of motion that the swan necks provide. This is a relief as I had to estimate the appropriate length of the wiring a couple of years ago when Greg built the harnesses for me.
That's all for now. Things should move a bit more quickly as final assembly proceeds. but some of the other Guzzis need attention, too.
I'm really excited with how this bike is coming out. I think it looks great (sorry for the poor pictures), and can't wait to get it out on the road to see how it handles.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Nice to see the tank fitted, the colour scheme is going to look fantastic!
Your breaking new ground with the Lafanconi cometizione pipes, they look fantastic!
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Nice to see the tank fitted, the colour scheme is going to look fantastic!
Your breaking new ground with the Lafanconi cometizione pipes, they look fantastic!
Thanks, Jim. I still need to sort out why the tank won't sit normally with the central rubber support in place (it is not installed in the pictures). Also, I have decided not to go with the Lafranconis as I don't want to have to modify them to make them fit. I already have a full stainless Mistral system with reverse megaphones, and think this looks almost as good, so I am going to go that direction. It was a tough choice, though.
Once again, thanks for the tremendous help you have freely given at various points of this build, Jim. I can't tell you how much I have appreciated it!
Cheers,
Shaun
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Shaun
SUPERB!!
Just the kick in the ass I needed to push my Eldo build. You do know that you would have more cash left over if you rediscovered dating again...maybe.
Harry
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Shaun
SUPERB!!
Just the kick in the ass I needed to push my Eldo build. You do know that you would have more cash left over if you rediscovered dating again...maybe.
Harry
Haha, thanks, Harry. Looking forward to seeing that Eldo project progress!
Yes, dating might be cheaper, but the follow-up conversation with my wife would almost certainly be more expensive... :thewife:
Cheers,
Shaun
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Apparently. progress will be slower for a while...
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/cast_zpstee9ku7i.jpg)
Cheers,
Shaun
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Your mom TOLD you what you happen if you didn't stop that!
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Your mom TOLD you what you happen if you didn't stop that!
Yeah, but I didn't think she meant it literally. Come to think of it, my vision seems to have been suffering, lately...
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Apparently. progress will be slower for a while...
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u553/smdl/cast_zpstee9ku7i.jpg)
Cheers,
Shaun
Any updates on this project? Did the arm heal ok?
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Thanks for asking, Dave. The arm has healed up reasonably well, thanks, but it's still not perfect. I'm currently trying to gauge whether or not bikes with low bars will be possible for me going forward, but I'm hopeful. I was able to get out on a few 20-30 mile rides on the V11 Le Mans, late last year, and it wasn't too painful. We'll see.
Unfortunately, my focus for the latter part of last season (after the arm healed) was on classic sports cars (Triumphs), as opposed to motorcycles, so progress on this project was limited. This year, those distractions will be out of the way, so I am planning on getting back on track with this soon. Will definitely post back here when I'm back in motion.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Thanks for asking, Dave. The arm has healed up reasonably well, thanks, but it's still not perfect. I'm currently trying to gauge whether or not bikes with low bars will be possible for me going forward, but I'm hopeful. I was able to get out on a few 20-30 mile rides on the V11 Le Mans, late last year, and it wasn't too painful. We'll see.
Unfortunately, my focus for the latter part of last season (after the arm healed) was on classic sports cars (Triumphs), as opposed to motorcycles, so progress on this project was limited. This year, those distractions will be out of the way, so I am planning on getting back on track with this soon. Will definitely post back here when I'm back in motion.
Cheers,
Shaun
I saw that about the TR-250. My brother is busy working on the old TR-4 that drove for years. He found a few missing teath in the rear end. :shocked:
I won't tell on you if you post a couple pictures of the Triumph. :cool:
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I saw that about the TR-250. My brother is busy working on the old TR-4 that drove for years. He found a few missing teath in the rear end. :shocked:
I won't tell on you if you post a couple pictures of the Triumph. :cool:
I hope the teeth weren't human... :grin:
Actually, both Triumph sold today to the same guy. He made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Now I will be able to focus on the bikes a bit more.
Cheers,
Shaun
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Hi Shaun,
Looking forward to following your 750S tribute to completion. I just started tearing down my 850T to follow the same path. Regarding the B10 camshaft installation did you have to physically adjust the cam to crankshaft relationship to advance the cam timing? I just had my cam reground to B10 spec and wondered if this is required.
Thanks
Mike
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Hi, Mike.
I didn't do anything special when I installed the cam -- just the normal procedure. Someone might come along now and tell me that I should have... :boozing:
Looking forward to checking out your project!
Cheers,
Shaun