850T Project

[smdl]

Greetings, all.

Well, with my Eldorado project winding down, I was beginning to miss tinkering with a Guzzi, and felt compelled to pick up another project.  So, last weekend, I brought this home: 

http://tinyurl.com/cukt2wu

This weekend, I spent some time cleaning it up, giving it an oil change, and freeing up all the stuff that was stuck as a result of it sitting for the past several years.  In particular, one of the carb slides was completely frozen, and it took a bit of work to get it moving.  Once that was done, I was able to attach a charged battery, and she fired right up!  Before anyone gets worried, the engine is a 950 with iron liners, so no chrome to worry about.

The bike has a couple of issues that I hope forum members might be able to help with, so I will add posts about those shortly.  I'll also plan to post updates, now and then, as the project progresses.

Cheers,
Shaun

[Perazzimx14]

Greetings, all.

Well, with my Eldorado project winding down, I was beginning to miss tinkering with a Guzzi, and felt compelled to pick up another project.  So, last weekend, I brought this home:  

http://tinyurl.com/cukt2wu

This weekend, I spent some time cleaning it up, giving it an oil change, and freeing up all the stuff that was stuck as a result of it sitting for the past several years.  In particular, one of the carb slides was completely frozen, and it took a bit of work to get it moving.  Once that was done, I was able to attach a charged battery, and she fired right up!  Before anyone gets worried, the engine is a 950 with iron liners, so no chrome to worry about.

The bike has a couple of issues that I hope forum members might be able to help with, so I will add posts about those shortly.  I'll also plan to post updates, now and then, as the project progresses.

Cheers,
Shaun

Where's the project 850 you said you picked up ;)? It can't be the orange and white one in the picture cause that bike looks like a daily runner!

[smdl]

As many know from buying bikes remotely, pictures can be deceiving!  Overall, it's solid, but it needs a LOT of work.  That's okay, though, as that is exactly what I was looking for.  I'm thinking of putting a sign up outside my garage that says "Guzzi Rescue".   ;D

Cheers,
Shaun

[harrytief]

Excellent and congrats Shaun. Remind me ...where have I seen that bike before?
Harry

[smdl]

Okay, first issue that I'm hoping for some help on:

The previous owner had been struggling with some issues, and did not have the time/ability to work on it himself, so the bike had sat idle for some time.  He told me that the engine was making a rattling noise, and that several attempts had been made to resolve it.  I don't have all the details, but I believe this included valve train adjustment/work, rod bearings and at least one piston.  However, these efforts did not resolve the issue, and apparently an experienced mechanic had suggested that the engine "might have the wrong pushrods" in it.  Once I got the bike running, I immediately heard what they were describing -- an incredible amount of top-end clatter.  Now, please understand that I know what Guzzi's sound like as I have two others, including one with exactly the same engine.  I expected the valvetrain to be noisy, but this was truly unusual!

It is always very difficult to convey things like noises verbally, so I have made up a short video, and posted it on YouTube.  Not sure if this will successfully convey it either, but here goes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qawW6DV7WTs&feature=player_detailpage

Note that the noise is definitely coming from the top end, and is very loud on both sides, but slightly louder on the right.  

I have already pulled the valve covers, and everything looks normal in there, but I will naturally check the clearances.  Once the engine cools down completely, I will re-torque the heads and complete a valve adjustment.  However, with the understanding that this has been attempted before, is there anything else I should be checking while I am in there?  

As an aside, I checked compression today with the engine hot, and it registered 65 on left, and 110 on right (forgot to hold throttle open).  I will check again once I have everything adjusdted and balanced, but it looks like I will be spending some time on the inside of this engine.  Not really an issue as I would have done so regardless (just to be sure), and I am planning a few performance enhancements anyway.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Shaun

[smdl]

Excellent and congrats Shaun. Remind me ...where have I seen that bike before?
Harry

Thanks, Harry.  Ummm, perhaps in your own garage?   :)  For those reading, Harry owned this bike a number of years ago (I also know the owner previous to him!). 

Shaun

[Two Checks]

Check the rocker arm shafts for wear. They and the arm bushings can wear out due to the oiling holes getting clogged with bits of stuff like timing chain tensioner rubbing block fragments.
My old T made a horrible sound and couldn't set the valves properly.

[canuck750]

Looks like a a great bike! Keep us posted.

Cheers
Jim

[smdl]

Check the rocker arm shafts for wear. They and the arm bushings can wear out due to the oiling holes getting clogged with bits of stuff like timing chain tensioner rubbing block fragments.
My old T made a horrible sound and couldn't set the valves properly.

Thanks, Two-Checks.  This is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for.

Shaun

[smdl]

Looks like a a great bike! Keep us posted.

Cheers
Jim

Thanks, Jim -- will do.  A few false starts, but I'm glad to be moving on something now.  By the way, I have really been enjoying following your V7S project -- truly inspiring!

Shaun

[fotoguzzi]

is the 850T a cult bike?



if so I'm an original member

[smdl]

is the 850T a cult bike?



if so I'm an original member

Hey, Foto.  Not a bad cult to be a member of!  I have to admit, though, that I am going to be messing with this one.  I'm looking to build something a bit more sporting this time, so we'll see how things come out.

Question for you -- what saddlebags are those on the second picture you posted (and maybe the first)?  I have those exact same bags on my bike, and would be intersted to know what they are.

Thanks,
Shaun

[fotoguzzi]

maybe Califia? note the hump on top, I fabbed a box for my CB radio from fiberglass.. when i got on the air they always thought  I was a semi truck from all the background noise, there were no lip mics back in the day.  I did fab up speakers in my helmet.

[smdl]

Hmmm, okay, thanks.  Interesting mod for the CB!

Shaun

[harrytief]

Shaun
Let me know if you need any help and remember my cache of spares. Don't forget to "rescue" the spare rear wheel fro Rosey Toes.
Harry

[smdl]

Thanks, Harry -- I'll be in touch.

Shaun

[smdl]

Hi, folks.

Well, I finished stripping the T down to the bare frame today, so will be starting on the sub-assemblies next.  Not surprisingly, I found that much of the bike has been worked on before, and I suspect that many aspects are not original (which is fine).  However, I would like to get a good feel for how things were originally arranged, and wonder if anyone might have some good pictures of an original bike with the seat up and the tank off?  I would especially like to see how the wiring and electrical components are configured.

Any help would be appreciated!

Cheers,
Shaun

[fotoguzzi]

sorry, bad wide shot and it's a Convert but the cable routing is the same as a T.

[motoscotto]

Nice find, I am doing the same with an 1975 850T but it is in pretty bad shape, I have it torn down to the frame also, the engine will be the challenge for me, I looking at a 2 year build, I built a powder coat oven so most of the bike will be powder coated. I will post pics when there is some real progress.

[smdl]

Thanks, foto.  Hmmm, looks like a fair number of differences with some of the electrical and braking stuff having been moved down behind the side covers.  Still, this is a helpful guide.

Cheers,
Shun

[smdl]

Nice find, I am doing the same with an 1975 850T but it is in pretty bad shape, I have it torn down to the frame also, the engine will be the challenge for me, I looking at a 2 year build, I built a powder coat oven so most of the bike will be powder coated. I will post pics when there is some real progress.

Sounds good.  Let's definitely compare notes as we go along.  I'll look forward to seeing how your powder coating comes out!

Shaun

[Chad M]

Hey Shaun!  Where's the updates???


Chad.

[smdl]

Hey Shaun!  Where's the updates???


Chad.

Hey, Chad.

Hmmm, "updates" would probably be an indication that there had been some "progress".  Unfortunately, between spring yard work, fighting a horrible cold for the past few weeks, and working day and night, "progress" now seems more of a theoretical concept than a potential reality.  Hope to get back at it soon.

Cheers,
Shaun

[dl.allen]

On the valve train clatter you might check the pushrods.  The PO on mine fitted new jugs but used the old round hole gaskets and it bent the pushrods and chewed through the metal rings on the gasket.  With the bent pushrods the valve lash was variable making crazy noises.  I fitted the oval hole gaskets and photoguzzi gave me some pushrods, Thanks!, and now it purrs like a kitten.....till the shift spring broke ::(

[smdl]

On the valve train clatter you might check the pushrods.  The PO on mine fitted new jugs but used the old round hole gaskets and it bent the pushrods and chewed through the metal rings on the gasket.  With the bent pushrods the valve lash was variable making crazy noises.  I fitted the oval hole gaskets and photoguzzi gave me some pushrods, Thanks!, and now it purrs like a kitten.....till the shift spring broke ::(

Thanks, dl.  I did actually get the heads off, and found that everything in the top end pretty much looked okay.  Pushrods looked fine, rockers were not worn unevenly, shafts looked okay for the most part (one maybe had a slight tight spot).  However, what I did find was that the bike has a set of Agostini gears on it, and the ring nut holding the crank gear on was almost completely backed off.  That allowed the gear to slide for and aft about half an inch, and I imagine that such movement might well have caused somr clatter.  I'm wondering if this might have been the source of the noise, possibly transfering to the cam gear and up through both top ends.  Both seemed noisy, and it was difficult to pinpoint where the noise was coming from.

As soon as I get some time, I will finish stripping the engine and see what else I come across.  I'd like to think that I have already identified the issue, though...   :D

Cheers,
Shaun   

[harrytief]

Hi Shaun
So that is where I put my ago gear set. Glad you found them...for me? You are probably right that the backed off nut is the source of the noise. The engine was strong when I had the bike and as part of upgrading the clutch I installed the gears. Phil had told me that the engine was a rebuilt T3 that came with the bike during his ownership of it. Good luck with the project.
Harry

[smdl]

A loose pushrod end will clatter too.

Yes, I can imagine it would, but the pushrods all look good, and the ends appear tight.  Will take a closer look before I start reassembly.

Thanks,
Shaun

[smdl]

Hi Shaun
So that is where I put my ago gear set. Glad you found them...for me? You are probably right that the backed off nut is the source of the noise. The engine was strong when I had the bike and as part of upgrading the clutch I installed the gears. Phil had told me that the engine was a rebuilt T3 that came with the bike during his ownership of it. Good luck with the project.
Harry

Hi, Harry.

Well, I'm not married to the Agos, by any means.  If you want them, maybe we can arrange a swap for something?  FYI, I actually picked up the proper tool for installing and removing them without damage. 

Let's arrange a time to get together soon.  I wouldn't mind picking up that plate when convenient.

Cheers,
Shaun

[harrytief]

Hi Shaun
I'm around all summer this year but spending all my time in the studio. I've finished the cx100/gsxr project and its turned out looking a little like a mini griso. These tonti bikes are fabulous and each iteration is just another world of possibilities. The shock and fork mods I did to the calvin over the winter have blunted my cal1400 lust. The calvin stays. I'll call in the near future and remember the spare engine/transmission I have.
Harry

[N.Y.zee10]

Shaun, here are some pix of the electrical components as arranged on an early 850T. I believe the placement to be as built. The wires going to the components may have likely been changed along the way. If you need a pix of something else- let me know.