Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tom on August 11, 2015, 04:17:10 AM
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Good impressions or bad?
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Not here. My wife & I really like Win 7/64 bit and I can troubleshoot & repair any issues that we've had over the long course of running Win7. I'm just sitting back and watching for at least 6-8 months to see what people are saying about Win 10 before making the jump. At my age, I could possibly just stay with Win 7 and forget the upgrade to 10.
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I have it on a couple of machines now. I like it.
It 'feels' like a good balance between Win 7 and a more tablet like Win 8.1. I think people won't be as 'shocked' by it as they were when Win 8 came out and they refused to learn that.
If you don't have a touch screen, you don't get much benefit over Win 7. You get the new explorer called Edge. It is nice and fast.
If you aren't in a hurry, and you aren't wanting to play around, I would wait for more updates. For example, the tablet I put it on keeps waiting up from sleep mode and eating the battery. So I had to set it to hibernate instead of sleep. that works fine, but take a few extra seconds to wake up. I suspect it will take a few months to iron out such hiccups.
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I have it on my laptop....I like it so far over the Windows 8 ......I think most people are saying if you have Windows 7 don't update...Windows 8 update for sure...
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I would agree with that as well. I updated my Win8 machine. But, I think I'll leave the Win7 machines alone.
For me it is a big improvement over Win8, but, I am not working with touchscreens either.
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doesn't support Windows Media Center so I'll pass
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doesn't support Windows Media Center so I'll pass
What do you use WMC for? DVR ability? Simple DVD playback? Streaming across multiple devices? There are solutions for each of those although all wrapped up in a single application.
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I loaded it and then my desktop flickered off/on....and I was unable to click anything! I'm back to 8.1 until I get my drivers in a row.
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I'm running it on a windows 7 machine. A few early glitches but it seems to be okay.
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Thanks for the info. I have Win 8.1 and don't like it.
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I've got it. So far I like it. It's easy to configure the look and feel so that it looks and feels like XP. :grin: And so far it seems very speedy. In particular, booting up the computer is faster than it was in 8.1 and a lot faster than 7 or XP.
It did take me the better part of an hour to reclaim some shred of my privacy from Microsoft, but sad to say these days that's a pretty minor annoyance -- most programs require reconfiguring upon installation to keep them from sending every shred of your information back to the mother ship and annoying you endlessly with notifications. Here's a guide that will help people with that for Win 10: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/07/30/windows-10-privacy-settings/
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If you are using 8.1, you might try Classic Shell - we use it at work and find it makes using 8.1 much more like 7, though you can change the settings to be more like Xp if you like
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If you are using 8.1, you might try Classic Shell - we use it at work and find it makes using 8.1 much more like 7, though you can change the settings to be more like Xp if you like
:1: I have done just this on my ultrabook nd it works fine. Really quite stable and unobtrusive. However- for doing real work I have win 7 on the company laptop.
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If you need to "fake out" the computer's OS in order to use it, you'd might as well get a mac. They have to pretend they're PC's in order to get any work done, too. :coffee:
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Installed on my old Dell desktop and a Lenovo T410 laptop. The Desktop did not want to install until I removed Nortan Symantec 9 (which was supposed to be gone, went through the reg. still something there that makes Windows thinks it's still around) or if I installed wiping all apps and just leaving my data. So I tried that. Holy Moly what a mess up. Had to rejoin everything - meh - life is too short for this crap, I rolled it back to 7.
But, the laptop went fine (Symantec was removed with no issues), when she booted back up it had all my apps (not many as I have not had it that long and mostly Ham Radio stuff), kept my wall paper; looks like 7 for the most part.
The usual annoy things where MS puts stuff for nuts and bolts IT types; they like to move things around, bury stuff under a second or third mouse click - very annoying.
But it seems to run fine and I think I'll keep it on the laptop. Desktop will stay 7 until it dies.
Our day to day computers are Apple MacBook Pro's; but it's like the shop where I have a mix of metric and english tools. Use what you have to to get the job done. I have friends that keep saying I should go back to Linux; with so much Ham stuff that appears to be Linux based I may indeed end up doing that. :boozing:
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I updated my Dell Latitude in the morning (here in Germany) of 29 July, and this went flawlessly. One driver did not work (of course that of my Logitech trackball), but they already had an according new version. The Win 7/Win 8 - Quadro - driver from NVidia did work, but they hat a Win 10 - driver (release version) one day later.
I came from Win 7 Pro 64, and all functions and data were there. Performance-wise I could not find a big difference, the machine was fast before. A big difference I saw in the way the new OS could handle the 2 Tb ESATA - external drive: for the first time fast and without any problems. And the look (businesslike, nearly bauhaus - style) is absolutely according my taste.
The settings are easily accessible now (too accessible for my taste...), but this is an OS everybody who can operate an Windows - PC will feel at home at once.
Microsoft should have done this four years ago. It can easily be seen that they now have listened to their customers. I have erased the older Win 7 - backup half an hour later.
My 17-years-old niece likewise updated her older Latitude two days later. She also encountered no problems.
Ah, yes, I forgot about the browsers: Edge I don´t like, there I prefer the Internet Explorer (which is still available, it only has no link into the Start menu). My main browser remains Pale Moon 64, my secondary browser (and E-Mail client) SeaMonkey.
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Classic Shell is not faking out the OS. Fact is that the only thing that was actually done to the start button and menus was to remove the registry settings for the most part. Classic shell is just basically putting those registry entries back for the most part.
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I updated my laptop with no real issues. I didn't keep any data or apps and did a more or less clean install from the ISO file. One thing I did run into was I interrupted the install because I couldn't figure out what was taking so long to download when it wanted to "check for updates" first. It was get updated device drivers and I had to go back an install them (or let windows install them later). Patience would have been a blessing here.
Otherwise all is good. I like it more than 8.1, but 8.1 isn't really that hard to use. Not too impressed with Cortana, but then I haven't spent any time training the speech recognition. It is worth taking some time in the installation and turning off the default feedback. This will become more pervasive with app developers as they are pushing this feature to developers to be more involved in how their applications are actually used and what people really want. This can be a positive thing (better apps and UI) - or it can be abused (intrusive advertising).
I will be more excited when the new Windows 10 Mobile platforms come out. If the rumors hold true, that is where the big changes are. Running any iOS or Android app, hooking your cell phone to a monitor and running it as desktop with a Bluetooth key board and mouse.
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I've done a bunch of pre-release tests with Win10, and I now have a dedicated Win10 platform (2-in-1 tablet hybrid, has touch screen, detachable keyboard, etc.). My main machines are still on Win7/8.1, Linux, bunch of other OSs.
I'll be testing GuzziDiag from the Win10 tablet as soon as my new Bluetooth OBDII device arrives, and will post my results in that thread. I've already posted in another thread about how to get some older apps to work if they have problems with Win10; note that what is no problem for one installation may be an issue for another that seems similar on the surface (and I don't mean the MS Surface!).
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I've done a bunch of pre-release tests with Win10, and I now have a dedicated Win10 platform (2-in-1 tablet hybrid, has touch screen, detachable keyboard, etc.). My main machines are still on Win7/8.1, Linux, bunch of other OSs.
I'll be testing GuzziDiag from the Win10 tablet as soon as my new Bluetooth OBDII device arrives, and will post my results in that thread. I've already posted in another thread about how to get some older apps to work if they have problems with Win10; note that what is no problem for one installation may be an issue for another that seems similar on the surface (and I don't mean the MS Surface!).
Guzzidiag it will work just fine. That is for Windows 10 Enterprise Edition anyway but it should still work for the home users.
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No worries, it will work just fine.
I'm actually more concerned about the drivers for the connection than the GuzziDiag software - that's where most issues have arisen with the new OS.
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I'm actually more concerned about the drivers for the connection than the GuzziDiag software - that's where most issues have arisen with the new OS.
I'm using it with BT, no issues. As with any computer or OS, there will always be some incompatibilities with certain hardware/software combinations but it works. So far on Panasonic Toughbooks, Fujitsu Laptop, Motion Computing Tablet and an bit long in the tooth Toshiba laptop and Dell Optiplex. BT on the mobile stuff, the Dell sits close enough to the parking to run the cable.
Now that I think about it, I have too much of this stuff.
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Addition: I'm not using the recommended BT device as I couldn't get the one Beetle mentioned. Using BAFX instead. Works like a champ.
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One frustration we have in marine computing is the incompatibility of usb -> serial converters with opsys. This problem will be the same with the diag softwares. What Prolific drivers/chipsets worked in XP won't work forward. WIN7 works with that opsys only. I expect we'll have to rebuy and reapply converters for win10. It's not so bad with a $30 dongle, but it gets expensive and tedious when the little hocky puck GPS receivers are rendered obsolete.
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Upgraded my Dell XPS Desktop the first day it was available. Everything went smooth except for having to reinstall my video card drivers.
Wireless settings for my printer worked which surprised me.
One thing i don't like is that you cant use submenus/dropdown(?) on the start menu like 7 or xp to navigate. You have to open a window and go from there. Don't care for tiles. Be nice if there were more options for the start menu!
Been running smooth though for almost two weeks now..........just a matter of figuring out how some software guru thinks the average joe should operate their own computer.
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Upgraded my Dell XPS Desktop the first day it was available. Everything went smooth except for having to reinstall my video card drivers.
Wireless settings for my printer worked which surprised me.
One thing i don't like is that you cant use submenus/dropdown(?) on the start menu like 7 or xp to navigate. You have to open a window and go from there. Don't care for tiles. Be nice if there were more options for the start menu!
Been running smooth though for almost two weeks now..........just a matter of figuring out how some software guru thinks the average joe should operate their own computer.
You can get the submenus if you want them. They are disabled by default.
1. Get to your desktop and right click once and choose properties. It can be easy to swing the cursor over and not select what you want so go slow.
2. A new dialogue box comes up. Go to Smart Menu tab and then click customize and then enable submenus.
What happens is when you pause the mouse the contexual submenu will open up. Just hover the mouse, you won't have to click. Not super elegant but that might give you want you want.
Reminds me of Java menus but there it is.
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no windows in my future. I'm replying to this post using my ibook G4, OS 10.3.9 gettin' old and still doing it... just a lot slower on the internet. :rolleyes:
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no windows in my future. I'm replying to this post using my ibook G4, OS 10.3.9 gettin' old and still doing it... just a lot slower on the internet. :rolleyes:
:huh:
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no windows in my future. I'm replying to this post using my ibook G4, OS 10.3.9 gettin' old and still doing it... just a lot slower on the internet. :rolleyes:
That's OK, I just feel sorry for you :D :D :D
Well, my Sony 'hacker' computer just failed to upgrade. It had been upgraded a long time ago to Win7 Prof edition. The std 10 upgrade just stopped and left it as is. Not really upset as it runs fine. It is my 'test' computer, ie, I test all my suspect programs on it first before using them on our other computers. It is also my 'field' computer since I really don't care if it goes belly up.
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Install failed on my windows 7 laptop and I'm too lazy to look for a solution. So I'll stick to my 7.
Other laptop has the 8.1. I'll have a new try on that one in a couple of months.
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Charly, it was just reported that several SONY machines have driver problems with Win 10 and will not be successfully updated for two months or so.
Todd, I also wait for Win 10 mobile. But it is interesting how similar Windowsphone 8.1 is to Win10.
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Win 10 suxx donkey dixx...
Everything is slower, and if I get on one of my long term sites ( such as this one ) and follow any thread for longer than 3 -4 minutes, the site often freezes and up pops the "Recover" prompt. When I hit that, I have a 50 /50 chance that it will reload the page, or kick me out completely...as in out to my Home Page.
Also it seems to take longer to load pages with adverts and often gets stuck there too...
Yeah, everything takes longer.
One positive to take from all this is that I am online quite a bit less, because I am tired of waiting for the system to do its thing.
Lately, if my patience is tested beyond my existing tolerances, I just say "Fukk it" , turn the computer OFF and go do something else.
And that's my take on Win 10.
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I guess I don't see that cause I still use Firefox on Win10.
Thanks Thorsten. I'll try my Sony again in a few more months.
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Installed it last night. It's fast. I like it.
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Win 10 suxx donkey dixx...
And that's my take on Win 10.
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Did you really expect something that works. At least it`s free so you can put it were all MS products should be.......the dump.
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Did you really expect something that works. At least it`s free so you can put it were all MS products should be.......the dump.
It's still better quality than your comments. :rolleyes:
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Did you really expect something that works. At least it`s free so you can put it were all MS products should be.......the dump.
That's OK. It can join my old mac laptop and ipad. :)
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Did you really expect something that works. At least it`s free so you can put it were all MS products should be.......the dump.
Most people who install Windows 10 will like it and it will work just fine for them.
No worries about the MS bashers, they've got the new Cook sponsored ultra low flow shower heads hooked up to their iPads. Explains the smell and the very dark looflah.
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Did you really expect something that works. At least it`s free so you can put it were all MS products should be.......the dump.
A broken Windows device is still more productive that any Apple product I have ever seen.
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I have been quite productive using each of the following platforms or operating systems:
- System 36/38/360 and their successors (through AS/400, iSeries, and so on)
- OS/390 and the zSeries successors (thanks to my PROFS)
- Sinclair, Altair, and the other Zilog era devices
- Star series Xerox networked computers
- Lisa, Mac and so on
- DOS
- PDP
- Windows from version 1.03 through current
- GEM
- OS/2
- UNIX, POSIX, LINUX, and any other NIX you might name
- Tandem and other specialized high availability systems
- Various SCADA systems and other purpose-built or highly tailored systems
But after all, the real point is not that there is a right system - there is always more than one that can do the job - the trick is picking the best system for that requirement, and that customer, at that time. I really can't get into all the OS and platform religion.
Then again, I'm a Unitarian-Universalist! :grin:
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I did quite a bit with IBM system 36/AS400 DEC and PDP11 back in the day. Before that it was Honeywell, IBM, GE6 and Sperry mainframes. For me the personal computer is a recent thing. Remembering the big iron of yesteryear, the mindlessness of modern computing is both amusing and sad.
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I started developing software and hardware on PDP-8s, and Intel 4004s.
GEM
I thought I was the only nut case to use that system.
And you forgot CPM and MPM. (insert beer icon here)
And there is my first glitch with Win 10 and the Edge explorer (which works well IMHO). Clicking on a smiley icon does not insert them.
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GEM, Xerox 360 and OS/2 . . . . the first workable GUI's.
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I had almost forgotten about my GEM days. No wonder I went on to Linux. :)
Sinclair. Fond memories, including the little thermal printer that went with it. You forgot the Radio Shack TRS-80. I did my master's thesis on a Model I. First thesis at Ariz State accepted from a personal computer and dot matrix printer.
And you left out the Cray's. :) The last one I used was an XMP.
At the test site we had two PDP-11's that ran the hardware up into the 90's. One was replaced in the late 90's. The other kept on running until the test system was mothballed in early 2000's. We literally had to kick start it. We think one of the memory boards was in a socket that had some faulty fingers. If it didn't start up right away someone would walk through the tunnel to the rack and give it a hard kick. System would start right up.
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And you forgot CPM and MPM. (insert beer icon here)
Ha! I had an Epson QX-10 running CP/M, complete with the Valdocs package. Damn near turned me off to college, that Valdocs was so bad.
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My first laptop was a TRS80 model 100. Ran on 6 AA batteries and had a 300baud modem, serial port and printer connection for the Epson FX. What more could a guy need? Professors didn't like it in their lectures because they thought it would be a distraction. I've still got it.
CP/M and Appledos were what I used on my old Commodore and Apple II(x)'s. Before floppies they ran on tape.
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My first laptop was a TRS80 model 100. Ran on 6 AA batteries and had a 300baud modem, serial port and printer connection for the Epson FX. What more could a guy need? Professors didn't like it in their lectures because they thought it would be a distraction. I've still got it.
I had a floppy drive for my M100. It let it run CPM.
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OK, so here's the addendum for my other early systems - TRaSh 80 Model 100 (with acoustic couplers, my first machine as a reporter), Kaypro (both CP/M suitcase and Kaypro 2000 DOS versions), TI 44/A with cassette recorder interface, ARCnet, JANet, and early token bus networks, various Commodore machines and networks, Network Courier and early NetBIOS/NetBEUI network operating systems, NetWare, VINES, DESQView and QEMM...
Maybe it would be faster to say which ones I didn't use at some point!
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just installed it - went well too early to tell how I'll like it, but like all thinks computer I'll get used to it....
everthing is at least working :boozing:
Mark
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GEM wasn't an OS it ran on top of DOS (pick your flavor) and sorry but the LISA truly was a disaster.
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I have updated two computers to 10 yesterday, an 6 year old Asus eeePC atom netbook. And my recent i5, both work only the netbook needed one newer driver(for w8) for the special keyboard keys. The netbook is the lowest that w10 will accept, it had w7 and was slow with it, and with w10 it's still slow. No wonder, but I only use it for holidays and guzzidiag, and that is fine. But it has an ssd and 2gb memory
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I just re-installed my yellow legal pad and Bic pen. seems to be working just fine.
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My laptop died last night, and I will be looking to replace it today. Cat knocked a glass of water over on it. I was using Vista, and I was very happy with it. My question is if I want to continue to use Vista can I load it on to a newer machine, or am I going to have to use the newer OS and figure out how they work?
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You aren't going to find anything new with Vista, thankfully. :grin:
Look for Win 7, that would have the least learning curve. Win 10 is most like 7, Win 8 - 8.1 would be the most to learn.
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I think I have a couple of Apple II 16kilobyte Memory expansion cards around.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/apple_ii_zpsqqcqjvlb.jpg)
Had a real nice keyboard ... almost like a Selectric Typewriter!
Those were much better than the humongous 1k Digital Company's PDP8 Commercial Computer memory card.
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My laptop died last night, and I will be looking to replace it today. Cat knocked a glass of water over on it. I was using Vista, and I was very happy with it. My question is if I want to continue to use Vista can I load it on to a newer machine, or am I going to have to use the newer OS and figure out how they work?
Since you asked, why change from something you are happy with? Get another computer, used just like what you had.
Would any of us tell someone to get a motorcycle other than what they liked and what worked well for them just because? No, we'd tell them to ride what they like and what they are comfortable riding. This is no different.
Change just to change is a waste of resources, usually money and time and in the end, satisfaction and enjoyment.
If you liked Vista, you don't need to change from that. If you liked your computer, you can find another on the used market, probably for very little money. Then you don't spend a lot of time having to change to something that had the accident not happened, wouldn't take place.
Do we throw away a bike because it needs work? No if it's a MG right? We fix them.
Computers aren't motorcycles but there is no need to make up a completely different set of rules because it is a computer.
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Listening to Kim Komando on the radio this morning. She suggested waiting a month, or two, to install Windows 10.
Was talking about several security patches released this week.
I think I'll take her advice and wait, despite the continuous prompting I've been getting on my machine.
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Since you asked, why change from something you are happy with? Get another computer, used just like what you had.
Would any of us tell someone to get a motorcycle other than what they liked and what worked well for them just because? No, we'd tell them to ride what they like and what they are comfortable riding. This is no different.
Change just to change is a waste of resources, usually money and time and in the end, satisfaction and enjoyment.
If you liked Vista, you don't need to change from that. If you liked your computer, you can find another on the used market, probably for very little money. Then you don't spend a lot of time having to change to something that had the accident not happened, wouldn't take place.
Do we throw away a bike because it needs work? No if it's a MG right? We fix them.
Computers aren't motorcycles but there is no need to make up a completely different set of rules because it is a computer.
Good theory, but MS dropped support for vista some years ago. You can reload it but you can't do any updates -- it will never be secure on the net and it will only be as up to date as the disk it's loaded from.
An alternative would be to find as identical a computer as possible and install your hard drive in it. I do this with XP platforms with good success.
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GEM wasn't an OS it ran on top of DOS (pick your flavor) and sorry but the LISA truly was a disaster.
Actually, GEM ran on top of several OSs, if you consider the DOS-like TOS systems for the 68000 sufficiently different. The Lisa was great for early desktop publishing, as it pointed the way for a revolution in pre-press. As a general purpose machine? It was a prototype for most purposes, but it set the stage for the Mac and all that followed.
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Windows peaked at "Windows 98" and it has gotten worse with every "upgrade" since then.
I switched to a mac a long time ago and I have never looked back!
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That's so funny. Especially since Apple peaked with the Apple IIe :)
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Windows peaked at "Windows 98" and it has gotten worse with every "upgrade" since then.
I switched to a mac a long time ago and I have never looked back!
So if you never looked back, how do you know? :rolleyes:
Methinks you and kent have formed a mutual admiration society.
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So if you never looked back, how do you know? :rolleyes:
Methinks you and kent have formed a mutual admiration society.
Naw, just a mutual hatred for the crappy products Microsh-t makes.
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Good discussion so far. :thumb: I have a similar history like a number of you. The current software loses me because of the proliferation of programs. Anyone still using a word processor? I found a manual typewriter and an electric one just to have as personal part of my history. When I broke out the manual. My youngest asked what it was. :grin: He's in-house computer resource person. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Heck, I still have my Dad's 'laptop'. An old Underwood portable typewriter. I learned how to type on it (mother was a typing and shorthand teacher). I used it up to the mid-80's. Still had a lot of multi-part forms that had to fill out that would not fit in the computer dot matrix printer.
I wonder, do the Microsoft haters with Macs use something other than Excel and Word? :D :D :D
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Naw, just a mutual hatred for the crappy products Microsh-t makes.
Moe like a mindless hatred of what you're incapable of understanding.
BTW -- despite your claims, that airline of yours had nothing but W7 machines in sight at the various airports and offices I've been visiting lately.
Back on topic -- I bought a FACIT 'lectronic typewriter back in the day for $1700 because I couldn't afford a computer.
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I wonder, do the Microsoft haters with Macs use something other than Excel and Word? :D :D :D
You're give the haters too much credit. They barely know how to surf the web.
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Moe like a mindless hatred of what you're incapable of understanding.
BTW -- despite your claims, that airline of yours had nothing but W7 machines in sight at the various airports and offices I've been visiting lately.
Back on topic -- I bought a FACIT 'lectronic typewriter back in the day for $1700 because I couldn't afford a computer.
But they gave pilots iPads for critical flight information, because it`s important to have equipment that`s reliable and works when airborne.
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But it's NOT critical to have a reliable device anywhere else in the organization? You could be alone in a room and still not be the smart one.
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But it's NOT critical to have a reliable device anywhere else in the organization? You could be alone in a room and still not be the smart one.
You think making making a reservation for a customer is as critical as being airborne and needing a chart so as to not hit a mountain? No wonder you are an apologist for Microsh-t and have your head buried in the sand.
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egad enough already.
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I am getting targeted by them! Windows Ten Update powers up my sleeping desktops' hard drive and power supply, but not the monitor or any indicator lights, and then after 3 or 4 minutes reverts back to normal sleep mode.
Then about half an hour later, does it again. The noise of the motors and fans wake me up and I have to shut down the computer if I want to sleep undisturbed.
I looked at the Update history and see several Windows 10 Upgrade failed messages. :huh: Go away!
Cheeky!
And wasting my bandwidth too! (http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/rant_zpsyccqgawl.gif)
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You think making making a reservation for a customer is as critical as being airborne and needing a chart so as to not hit a mountain? No wonder you are an apologist for Microsh-t and have your head buried in the sand.
From a corporate point of view it's all critical. A computer glitch anywhere in the network can affect passenger safety and air travel for everyone at a regional or global level. If the airline really felt the way you think, there wouldn't be a windows machine in their inventory. But as I said and anyone can easily verify, your airline runs on Microsoft. That's a fact.
And no, I'm not an apologist for microsoft. I do however oppose mindless bullshit wherever I encounter it.
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I am getting targeted by them! Windows Ten Update powers up my sleeping desktops' hard drive and power supply, but not the monitor or any indicator lights, and then after 3 or 4 minutes reverts back to normal sleep mode.
Then about half an hour later, does it again. The noise of the motors and fans wake me up and I have to shut down the computer if I want to sleep undisturbed.
I looked at the Update history and see several Windows 10 Upgrade failed messages. :huh: Go away!
Cheeky!
And wasting my bandwidth too! (http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/rant_zpsyccqgawl.gif)
I can only speak o the failed updates -- I don't know how your computer is configured, so I don't know if it's set to 'wake up' for network traffic or not. Personally I never 'sleep' or 'hibernate' a computer. If I want it to stop, I shut it down.
Updates come down that don't apply to all computers. For example, if you don't have dotnet 4.5 on your machine, updates will be downloaded, but will 'fail' to load because you don't need them. It doesn't mean there was a malfunction.
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I am getting targeted by them! Windows Ten Update powers up my sleeping desktops' hard drive and power supply, but not the monitor or any indicator lights, and then after 3 or 4 minutes reverts back to normal sleep mode.
Then about half an hour later, does it again. The noise of the motors and fans wake me up and I have to shut down the computer if I want to sleep undisturbed.
I looked at the Update history and see several Windows 10 Upgrade failed messages. :huh: Go away!
Cheeky!
And wasting my bandwidth too! (http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/rant_zpsyccqgawl.gif)
Right now, the Win10 update servers are getting slammed. Not only is there an ongoing stream for queued upgrades, there has been a release of a cumulative upgrade for those systems already on Win10 (sveral upgrades of the security/driver/stability type, and a Silverlight update as well).
As noted, the design for Win10 Home is that
- Everyone is on cable or DSL with lots of free bandwidth
- Everyone is too technically ignorant to manage their own upgrades and security (this may be more true than we'd like to admit)
- Everyone sleeps between 1 am and 6 am, and keeps their computer somewhere well away from their bedroom
- Everyone prefers convenience to privacy
- Everyone is comfortable with the Android upgrade model, where you get it when they send it and you don't pay for it
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Love the discussion of old machines. My first computer programming classes were in 1967 using a remote input device to an IBM 1400 series. My first PC was a Heathkit H-89 with 64K or RAM initially running CP/M and later Z-DOS. Hacked BIOS so that the machine would read 2 single-sidded, single-density 5.25" floppy disc drives (180K each) and eventually the TM-100-2 drives which were double sidded-single density at 360K for a total of 720K of online storage.
Great days running CP/M and Wordstar.
Oh yes, my windows 10 upgrades went well on two of my machines, but I'm waiting for a consensus on the working of Adobe Creative Cloud before upgrading my primary machine.
jdg
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From a corporate point of view it's all critical. A computer glitch anywhere in the network can affect passenger safety and air travel for everyone at a regional or global level. If the airline really felt the way you think, there wouldn't be a windows machine in their inventory. But as I said and anyone can easily verify, your airline runs on Microsoft. That's a fact.
And no, I'm not an apologist for microsoft. I do however oppose mindless bullshit wherever I encounter it.
A computer glitch at the wrong moment airborne will KILL 180 people. A computer glitch ( more likely on Microsh-t ) anywhere else is just an inconvenience. Why do you think the corporate point of view was to pick Apple for the most critical area of passenger safety? it certainly isn`t because Apple is cheaper and Airlines are the cheapest corporations out there. The FAA needed reassurance cockpit computer replacement of paper charts was going to work correctly and be reliable on commercial airliners and they gravitated to iPads. I find that rather interesting.
I know we use Windows everywhere else, that`s a fact! But would anyone except one grumpy old man care enough to "easily verify" if we do? :rolleyes:
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Get out much.
http://news.delta.com/delta-equip-11000-pilots-microsoft-surface-2-tablet-devices
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Yep, those are just devices that hold all the flight charts. Not flight critical. If they fail the plane won't crash. These days they are backup to the backup since the planes have glass cockpits with backups in the dash.
I wonder how often the pilots even look at those when in flight (when not surfing the net, sending emails, checking schedules, etc).
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Just wanted to say thanks to Rodekyll, Wayne, CharlieB, and ITSec. When I see you guys post about computers I pay attention. Bill Havins too. Others, not so much.
-AJ
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It's amazing to me, who learned to navigate with my finger on the chart, a compass and ship's clock, what is available now. I flew all around this weekend with an aviation app on my fone in Mouser. (!) All the charts are up to date with your airplane shown on them by gps. Any navigation information is instantly available. If you want, it'll do a "glass cockpit" or steam gauge display, and ..ahem.. could be used in an emergency as flight information in the clouds. (!) I have it on an Android tablet, too. Costs $75 a year. Unbelievable.. Oh, yeah. Weather overlay. The airlines didn't have this level of info just a few years ago.
Takes all the skill out of it though.. :)
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LOL know what you mean. Too easy to fly with all the extra stuff now days.
Father-in-law was an instructor and used to give students a test in night flying, especially those who liked the modern stuff. Would take them up and fly around over the Gila wilderness area. Below a certain altitude the VOR did not work, DF was spotty and there were no lights on the ground. He'd leave the GPS off. Then have them find their way home. Some would get so flustered they would forget there was a compass.
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Love the discussion of old machines. My first computer programming classes were in 1967 using a remote input device to an IBM 1400 series. My first PC was a Heathkit H-89 with 64K or RAM initially running CP/M and later Z-DOS. Hacked BIOS so that the machine would read 2 single-sidded, single-density 5.25" floppy disc drives (180K each) and eventually the TM-100-2 drives which were double sidded-single density at 360K for a total of 720K of online storage.
Great days running CP/M and Wordstar.
Oh yes, my windows 10 upgrades went well on two of my machines, but I'm waiting for a consensus on the working of Adobe Creative Cloud before upgrading my primary machine.
jdg
Gotcha beat. 1962 and a Univac. (!) Gotran and Fortran.. :smiley:
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Get out much.
http://news.delta.com/delta-equip-11000-pilots-microsoft-surface-2-tablet-devices
Apparently you don`t, old news. Delta has an exclusive business travel contract with MS. My pilot friends at Delta weren`t happy with having to use the POS Surface, but it was forced on them for obvious reasons.
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Yep, those are just devices that hold all the flight charts. Not flight critical. If they fail the plane won't crash. These days they are backup to the backup since the planes have glass cockpits with backups in the dash.
I wonder how often the pilots even look at those when in flight (when not surfing the net, sending emails, checking schedules, etc).
Totally flight critical, you need to know what you are talking about. There is no backup for terminal charts in glass cockpits they contain flight instruments with some navigation but not what you need for terminal arrivals. BTW, there is no "dash" in an aircraft
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Gotcha beat. 1962 and a Univac. (!) Gotran and Fortran.. :smiley:
That's about the same time as my dad. He graduated from UW in 66. After Vietnam he had Adm. Grace Hopper as his instructor. :D Retired after 40+ years as a COBOL programmer even though people kept staying COBOL was a dead language. He's not to impressed with today's programmers most whom he days don't even know how a computer works.
-AJ
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That's about the same time as my dad. He graduated from UW in 66. After Vietnam he had Adm. Grace Hopper as his instructor. :D Retired after 40+ years as a COBOL programmer even though people kept staying COBOL was a dead language. He's not to impressed with today's programmers most whom he days don't even know how a computer works.
-AJ
Love Adm. Grace. I had a nano-second for a long while. Lost it in a move or a divorce.
COBOL rocks.
jdg
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Gotcha beat. 1962 and a Univac. (!) Gotran and Fortran.. :smiley:
Then again, you're much older than I am :evil:
Yep, Fortran with no numbers behind it; ALC and BAL - yep, them was fun days :boozing:
jdg
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Maybe they give toys like iPads and Windows tablets to pilots. But take a look at the specifications of e.g. an iPad: https://www.apple.com/ipad-air-2/specs/ . does anybody think that those things are used for anything safety-related? No toy of this sort is in any way certified as navigational aid or so. They may use those pads a notebook (in the old sense). But a device that has a rated max. altitude of 10 000 ft? The Klemm 107s of my best friends fly above that!
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Maybe they give toys like iPads and Windows tablets to pilots. But take a look at the specifications of e.g. an iPad: https://www.apple.com/ipad-air-2/specs/ . does anybody think that those things are used for anything safety-related? No toy of this sort is in any way certified as navigational aid or so. They may use those pads a notebook (in the old sense). But a device that has a rated max. altitude of 10 000 ft? The Klemm 107s of my best friends fly above that!
Well your wrong.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ipad+in+cockpit&es_sm=91&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CB4QsARqFQoTCN_A9rmfsscCFYMwiAody74Apg&biw=1920&bih=928#imgrc=2gfi6XoOhDzH3M%3A
Airliners are pressurized so the cabin/cockpit never exceed 10,000 ft. so that rated max altitude is exactly what is needed.
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Kent, you need to stop drinking the kool aid before you go off the deep end. An Ipad won't do anything that my Android tablet won't do.. and costs considerably more. Besides that, Apple charges you about 100 bux for 16 gig of memory. The Android has a slot for a memory card. Additional memory is almost free..
Seriously, they are just machines..
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Kent,
I don�t know how much you know about avionics, but no authority will approve a consumer electronics device with such specifications as primary flight display. They may be used but only as third-line backup. But you can use a Radio Shack assembly kit for this. You only are not allowed to rely on it.
I know people who navigate with Android smart phones in planes (the apps exists, and I do so just for fun with my Windowsphone when I sit in the rear of a plane). But using such stuff as main navigation device is irresponsible.
No Apple - (or Microsoft - ,or Samsung - )device is approved by any aeronautical authority anywhere in the world.
In german aeronautical magazines it is strongly suggested not to use iPads because above 3000 meters those things tend to overheat.
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Totally flight critical, you need to know what you are talking about. There is no backup for terminal charts in glass cockpits they contain flight instruments with some navigation but not what you need for terminal arrivals. BTW, there is no "dash" in an aircraft
I was keeping it simple for someone who obviously does not fly. :)
Nope, not flight critical.
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Surprised to see that there were actually a dozen or so real responses to the original post before the inevitable MS vs. Mac flame war began. If you all were to be believed, no productive work was ever accomplished on a mac and a PC never ran for more than a day without crashing. Certainly neither company would still be in business today if their products were as bad as you seem to think.
As someone that has worked with both in a business environment, I know that they all can be made to work and that there are good and bad things about both. What ticks me off about all of them is the damn things keep getting slower despite the dramatic increase in computing power. I swear the 286 machine with 5MB hard drive was faster than my current Win 8 laptop for most things.
What I was hoping to hear was something about whether 10 would run any faster than 8.1 on a relatively new Core i3 (2.4GHz) powered laptop with 4G of ram. I absolutely hate Win 8, but if 10 sucks just as bad and doesn't improve the speed....
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I've had this lap top for three years. Win 8.0. Frustrating POS to use. I finally relegated it to just streaming movies to our TV from Netflix.
Last week I loaded up Win 10 and then it needed a half day to update it. Its like a sleeker version of Win 7. Easy and intuitive to use. Much more productive for me. Now I am setting this one up as my full time computer so I can throw away the worn out POS I've had for seven years. Its keyboard is shorted out and the cursor jumps randomly all over the place as you type. I think my old cat spent too much time sleeping on it.
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Yes, win10 does run faster than win 8. :) I like it enough that I will upgrade the other computers in a couple of months.
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What I was hoping to hear was something about whether 10 would run any faster than 8.1 on a relatively new Core i3 (2.4GHz) powered laptop with 4G of ram. I absolutely hate Win 8, but if 10 sucks just as bad and doesn't improve the speed....
I have a core I5 tablet. I have not noticed any speed difference with Win 10 over 8.1.
For a touch screen tablet, Win 8.1 may have had a few advantages. Win 10 has a tablet mode, which is close enough. And the normal mode is enough like Win 7 to not 'shock' everyone that doesn't went that learning curve.
Next up for me is to back up and upgrade and 'antique' laptop that is running 8.1. Then my REALLY old desktop.
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Kent,
I don�t know how much you know about avionics, but no authority will approve a consumer electronics device with such specifications as primary flight display. They may be used but only as third-line backup. But you can use a Radio Shack assembly kit for this. You only are not allowed to rely on it.
I know people who navigate with Android smart phones in planes (the apps exists, and I do so just for fun with my Windowsphone when I sit in the rear of a plane). But using such stuff as main navigation device is irresponsible.
No Apple - (or Microsoft - ,or Samsung - )device is approved by any aeronautical authority anywhere in the world.
In german aeronautical magazines it is strongly suggested not to use iPads because above 3000 meters those things tend to overheat.
It`s not a primary flight instrument it`s use is for enroute and approach charts and approved by the FAA for this use. There are no more paper charts or manuals on most flight decks now.
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It`s not a primary flight instrument it`s use is for enroute and approach charts and approved by the FAA for this use. There are no more paper charts or manuals on most flight decks now.
:rolleyes:
So it has no real purpose.
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:rolleyes:
So it has no real purpose.
Actually, believe it or not.. Kent's right on this one. :smiley: The FAA is going to quit printing paper charts. (!) It gives me the willies, because I'm a finger on the chart kind of guy, but it is what it is. At least I can use my fone as a backup if the tablet dies. I'll still keep an old outdated real paper chart in the glovebox, though. Even a road map. :evil: <snapping suspenders> I don't trust electronic stuff, although the new tablets and fones are remarkably reliable.
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Actually, believe it or not.. Kent's right on this one. :smiley: The FAA is going to quit printing paper charts.
The point is that there are numerous tools that are, and will be, doing this job. Just not the one fruity one.
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The point is that there are numerous tools that are, and will be, doing this job. Just not the one fruity one.
Well, sure.
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We've been using 'rolling charts' in marine navigation for decades. The only platform I've never seen running marine nav is the fruity stuff.
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We've been using 'rolling charts' in marine navigation for decades. The only platform I've never seen running marine nav is the fruity stuff.
Although there is that wonderful story about the Navy ship that had to be taken out of service because of its Windows-based software! (OK, it was Windows NT, but that was arguably one of the best versions!) :azn:
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I found a rather good write-up on Slate, addressing how to establish privacy (as much as can be done) in Windows 10. It's worth a read by anyone wanting to get some control of their Win10 installations. See: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.single.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.single.html)
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Here's a pretty good rundown on what you can and cannot do with and Electronic Flight Bag (EFB) depending on what kind of aircraft you fly. As a Part 91 pilot flying an aircraft that is under the 12,500 mark, you can use the EFB and it's up to you to ensure it does not interfere with your other electronics, etc. There is no requirement to have a backup set of physical maps. If however, you are flying Part 91F, 121, or 135, then there are a bunch of other requirements that must be met, including having a backup source for your EFB, which can be an other EFB which meets the same set of requirements.
Not used as a PFD, but only as a substitute for paper charts, maps, checklists, etc.
http://ipadpilotnews.com/2015/03/ipad-legal-briefing-pilots-need-know/ (http://ipadpilotnews.com/2015/03/ipad-legal-briefing-pilots-need-know/)
jdg
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Thanks for pointing us toward some actual data. I notice this particular article is written to an ipad user audience. As you read it it important to keep in mind that while ipads apparently qualify for some parts, they are not the only qualifying devices. The FAA is not showing any mfgr preferences. The required functions and device features exist on many different mfgr's devices.
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. The FAA is not showing any mfgr preferences.
But Airlines are showing a preference for the iPad and it costs the most. Must be because it`s a better tool. Why else would they spend more money than necessary. :thumb:
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Actually, believe it or not.. Kent's right on this one. :smiley:
Thank you :bow:
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FOCUS............FO CUS.........the thread was started about the new OS, Windows 10.
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But Airlines are showing a preference for the iPad and it costs the most. Must be because it`s a better tool. Why else would they spend more money than necessary. :thumb:
There is no evidence of that other than you saying so.
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Dude, reading for you, including this little blurb.
The first thought many pilots, not to mention passengers, may have is: What happens if the iPad or the app crashes?
Jeff Buhl, Jeppesen's product manager for the Mobile TC app, says the Apple iOS operating system and the app proved "extremely stable" during testing. In the "unlikely" event of a software crash, he says, it takes but a moment to get them running again.
"The recovery time for an application crashing or the OS crashing is extremely rapid," Buhl says.
During the evaluation period with the FAA, the production app did not crash. But even if it did, Buhl says it's ready to go again "in 4-6 seconds from re-launch to previous state."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit_iPads
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/02/28/FAA.approves.iPads/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/14/travel/ipads-in-airline-cockpits/
http://www.ibtimes.com.au/air-canada-national-grid-use-apple-ibm-apps-united-airlines-renewed-ipad-program-1457472
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FOCUS............FOCUS.........the thread was started about the new OS, Windows 10.
Thanks, Tom. I needed that. :thumb:
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Thought, I'd throw that in. :grin: Now back to the fist fight. :popcorn:
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Dude, reading for you, including this little blurb.
The first thought many pilots, not to mention passengers, may have is: What happens if the iPad or the app crashes?
Jeff Buhl, Jeppesen's product manager for the Mobile TC app, says the Apple iOS operating system and the app proved "extremely stable" during testing. In the "unlikely" event of a software crash, he says, it takes but a moment to get them running again.
"The recovery time for an application crashing or the OS crashing is extremely rapid," Buhl says.
During the evaluation period with the FAA, the production app did not crash. But even if it did, Buhl says it's ready to go again "in 4-6 seconds from re-launch to previous state."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit_iPads
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/02/28/FAA.approves.iPads/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/14/travel/ipads-in-airline-cockpits/
http://www.ibtimes.com.au/air-canada-national-grid-use-apple-ibm-apps-united-airlines-renewed-ipad-program-1457472
Now if you could read the FAR instead of the wikkipedia you'd notice that the FAA doesn't specify ANY product -- hardware or software. In fact, if you read the notice to airmen included in the link you'd learn that the FAA doesn't evaluate PEDs at all. It lists specifications that must be met by any 'electronic flight bag'. The ipad is not mentioned in the FAR. Basically it says that the PED (portable electronic device) being used as a EfB must be able to hold and display compressed charts, operate at altitude, and not die under rapid decompression. It allows the mfgr to state whether or not the device meets specs. For large turbine aircraft there must also be a backup device accessible on the flight deck. Pay particular attention to the last point -- the FAA has the SAME confidence in an ipad as it does any other PED -- limited.
I'll be flying again later today. I'll chat up a pilot and get some first-hand poop.
Thought, I'd throw that in. :grin: Now back to the fist fight. :popcorn:
Thanks, Tom. I'm sure having fun with it. :thumb:
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Believe it or not. I'm learning something through all of this. :grin:
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Believe it or not. I'm learning something through all of this. :grin:
All tho nothing about Windows 10 :boxing:........
Mark
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The reason there are more ipads in the cockpit is because there are more companies that write software for them. It has nothing to do with which system is "better."
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The reason there are more ipads in the cockpit is because there are more companies that write software for them. It has nothing to do with which system is "better."
The companies writing software are in it for the money, so the better and most used system is going to get the most software written, ie iPad.
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The companies writing software are in it for the money, so the better and most used system is going to get the most software written, ie iPad.
Nope. When this all started, there were several versions of the Android OS. The software designers focused on the Ipad at first because it was easier. It has nothing whatsoever to do with which system is "better." Now, you can get the same stuff on Android, and there is no difference to the end user in how it operates.
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turbine aircraft there must also be a backup device accessible on the flight deck. Pay particular attention to the last point -- the FAA has the SAME confidence in an ipad as it does any other PED -- limited.
The backup device is the other pilots iPad or PED. Both pilots had to carry paper so they must have had little limited confidence in paper also :rolleyes:
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Nope. When this all started, there were several versions of the Android OS. The software designers focused on the Ipad at first because it was easier. It has nothing whatsoever to do with which system is "better." Now, you can get the same stuff on Android, and there is no difference to the end user in how it operates.
Easier IS better
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I know I'm wasting my mad typing skilz, yo.. but..
Easier WAS better. :) Now, there's no difference. Really.
Know why I have an Android tablet? It was FREE (Guzzi content) with my half price phone. (More Guzzi content) I seriously shopped an Ipad Mini for a good while. An equivalent Mini is $400. Want more memory, Apple is glad to sell you another Mini..there's no memory upgrade..for 100 bux for 16 gig. The Android has a slot for a memory chip. Cheap. Want an extra 32 gig? Put a chip in it. Oh. The Mini can't use cell towers, either. It's very well built, though.
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The reason there are more ipads in the cockpit is because there are more companies that write software for them. It has nothing to do with which system is "better."
I think the reasonable people have always said a computer is a tool. If it does the job, go for it.
The platform requirements for nav software are minimal. Almost any post-y-2k machine has the horsepower. Almost any computer since 2003 has the storage. The FAA doesn't specify WHAT a PED is, only what it must feature. So my Toughbook or Sony laptop or my MacBook would qualify if it met specs.
Kent -- you've been debunked. Give it a rest.
On-topic -- just tried the W10 on my Panasonic Toughbook tablet. It flunked me on the tablet buttons, built in gps and built-in 3G.
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Don't fret Chuck. Those that drink from the fruit bar will never admit they are wrong.
The 1st gen iPad I had (and tossed into the trash) was harder to use and more limited in functionality than my Android tablet (which cost less than half as much).
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I just picked out a $99 8" Winbook for my daughter. It runs all of her work TOOLS and would even make a great device for the garage to run GuzziDiag. (for the deluded, that will not run on an overpriced iPood)
Plugged my $15 USB borescope in and had a convenient borescope TOOL.
But it is Win 8.1, and only 32GB. I'm not sure there is a point in trying to upgrade it to Win 10, since the tablet friendly Win 8.1 is fine in this case. It has a microSD card slot, unlike the overpriced you know what..... so it can be expanded cheaply enough.
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All tho nothing about Windows 10 :boxing:........
Mark
Odd. The thread is marked "NGC". You have the ultimate right for censorship but you decided to read it and post a comment. :grin: Maybe not that bad of a thread. :grin: :grin: :grin:
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not good or bad by my thoughts - and no censorship implied....
just kinda looking for input on W10 but I could bring up sliderules now that was a good operating system
Mark
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Frankly, a manual typewriter or pen and paper is better sometimes.....
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not good or bad by my thoughts - and no censorship implied....
just kinda looking for input on W10 but I could bring up sliderules now that was a good operating system
Mark
I still have a bamboo slide rule (real glass in the slider!), a cheaper plastic one, and an engineer's circular slide rule - and I'm an IT guy!
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:thumb:
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I still have a bamboo slide rule (real glass in the slider!), a cheaper plastic one, and an engineer's circular slide rule - and I'm an IT guy!
Still have my circular slide rule. No, I have no idea how to operate it any longer.
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So my Toughbook or Sony laptop or my MacBook would qualify if it met specs.
Well there`s an issue right there. I think like all Old guys, you need your nap.
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Well there`s an issue right there. I think like all Old guys, you need your nap.
You mean a non, issue, but I understand with the nap comment that you’re asking for it, so here goes:
I’ll break this into two posts because it’s long. First part is background.
My flight was delayed on account of someone plugged the toilet and it took a team of college boys an hour to sort it out. While we were waiting, the crew invited folks to tour the flight deck. I had a long conversation with the flight crew, explaining only that I'm a private pilot interested in the technology. I asked my questions neutrally, without leading the answers. Although I had initially engaged the First Officer, the rest of the crew joined in on account of they are very enthusiastic about the benefits of the technology. I assured them I wouldn’t mention any names if I repeated anything, so I’m not really assigning any comments to any person. I’m paraphrasing the comments of course, but I’ve diligently kept the content and context. Here's what I learned.
Kent's airline was maybe the first to go to EFB (electronic flight bag) technology some 5-ish years ago (one thought 4 years, another 6). Since then they figure all commercial carriers have adopted some form of EFB.
So what is EFB?
EFB is a device that replaces the pilots' 'flight bag'. The bag would typically contain company documents, aircraft specific documents like performance data, weight and balance charts, checklists, etc. It would also carry the runway and taxiway paper maps for the airports on the route, printouts of weather information, nav charts, etc. Before EFB the pilot or first officer had to stop by the office and pick up the latest copies of these documents. Once the cabin door was closed no more updates were possible. So as much as I am aghast at them retiring paper, the EFB has a lot of advantages.
With an electronic flight bag all that stuff is stored on a computer and updates to weather and traffic information can be accessed as they occur, route info and maps can be downloaded instead of printed out. So data is more up-to-date and accessible, and the flight deck clutter is reduced. Kent's airline is essentially paperless on the flight deck. They use ipad air tablets and the devices are replaced every couple of years.
Stay tuned as I copy over the next portion.
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In fact the consensus was that with the software used, there was no differences in devices other than size.
That's what I said.
Your personal attacks are totally uncalled for, Kent..
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That's what I said.
Your personal attacks are totally uncalled for, Kent..
"In conclusion, the only thing that sucks in this debate is Kent"
What would you call this? A love letter?
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"In conclusion, the only thing that sucks in this debate is Kent"
What would you call this? A love letter?
You opened that door, Skippy. You don't get to complain about it now.
If this constant disruption and interference of topics is your idea of fun, perhaps we need to have you gone. These threads aren't posted as springboards for your verbal vomit. Here, as always, you've once again been proven a liar. Maybe it's time for you to move on. You're no asset to the WG community.
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You opened that door, Skippy. You don't get to complain about it now.
If this constant disruption and interference of topics is your idea of fun, perhaps we need to have you gone. These threads aren't posted as springboards for your verbal vomit. Here, as always, you've once again been proven a liar. Maybe it's time for you to move on. You're no asset to the WG community.
Oh my,you woke up rather grumpy from your nap. There are no lies just opinions and without me you wouldn`t have anything useful to do, like defend a great big crap of a company like MicroSh-t. I suggest continuing on with your nap and dream of things old bones can`t do anymore.
The moderator should pull the thread soon and all your crying will be for not. :cry:
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The facts speak for themselves.
. . . . and threaten me with the moderator? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I'd offer you a ride to the door myself, but I can't find a bus short enough.
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Personally I am getting a little bit tired of the anti Microsoft (or any other company) rants. At least we get constructive comments from some people. :weiner: :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
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You opened that door, Skippy. You don't get to complain about it now.
If this constant disruption and interference of topics is your idea of fun, perhaps we need to have you gone. These threads aren't posted as springboards for your verbal vomit. Here, as always, you've once again been proven a liar. Maybe it's time for you to move on. You're no asset to the WG community.
:1:
I have an extra liter of 10w60 to donate to help lube the skids.
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Simple topic. Turned bad. Not sure why, but I have received more complaints about this thread than I have anything else in a long time. So, I did a little pruning. Let's all play nicely....shall we?
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The facts speak for themselves.
. . . . and threaten me with the moderator? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I'd offer you a ride to the door myself, but I can't find a bus short enough.
Grandpa, Just think, someday your life could be in my hands on an airplane ride, don`t worry I`ll get you to that Microsoft BBQ safely and on time. :grin:
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Grandpa, Just think, someday your life could be in my hands on an airplane ride, don`t worry I`ll get you to that Microsoft BBQ safely and on time. :grin:
Are you blind? Enough of the insults already. I have better things to do than follow you around and babysit. I know you've already said that this is fun for you...stirring the pot. It's not fun for me at all. When things are not fun for me, I cut them out.
Simple topic. Turned bad. Not sure why, but I have received more complaints about this thread than I have anything else in a long time. So, I did a little pruning. Let's all play nicely....shall we?
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Back on track then . . .
Just finished configuring w10 on a dell 1545 laptop (2Gb). The load was without drama -- all hardware and software on board compatible. Updated. Then I went poking around to see what's up with it.
The desktop is close enough to w7/8.1 classic to not be annoying. The start menu is there as well as desktop icons. The control panel looks different and arranges control applets differently. The 'file/run' function is back as a 'quick lookup' box in the file explorer, so my two favorite tools -- the registry editor and msconfig -- are easily accessible. There is a new internet browser, but I didn't pay much attention to that.
I noticed post-upgrade that the computer shut down and started much more slowly, and that the RAM use and process count was up. A quick look at the programs and apps control panel showed a lot of gimmie software had been loaded. Some of the Microsoft-branded stuff that hadn't been there is not uninstallable in the home version, at least with default user privileges. I uninstalled a bunch of stuff, beautified the startup configuration and got 5sec shutdowns and 26sec boots. I'm not making that to be good or bad, it's just what it is, which is about 3x faster shutdown than the w7 it replaced and ~a minute faster on startup.
Overall my initial impression is that I can live with it more peacefully than 8 and 8.1, and that it has done this laptop no harm. We'll see how it goes over the next few days' use.
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This shorter startup time is interesting. I presume you use a "classical" drive. My laptop has an SSD and here the startup time was ridiculously short with Win7 Pro 64. I have exterienced no shorter time here.
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Yes, a traditional drive. The difference was that the load of w10 had my RAM use up to about 75% (of 2gb) and it was running about 80 processes. After I removed some of the software and trimmed down the startup config, there was 55% RAM use and 62 processes.
A lot of that unnecessary overhead came from stuff in the w10 upgrade. It's really no different than the gratuitous memory draining stuff a company like dell or hp adds to their loads. When I prepare a new computer I'm cleaning up that same kind of dead wood.
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Thanks! Your review is one of the better ones. :thumb: My intent for the thread was for some input on the Windows 10 upgrade. I'm not as computer informed as some of the forum members.
Thanks, Luap! I thought about locking the thread but I'm not that type of guy.
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Thanks, Luap! I thought about locking the thread but I'm not that type of guy.
Had to check if that feature was still available. Empty threat. I can remove it though. :grin:
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That's all I was trying to do here until the trouble started. I'm hoping that with the distraction gone we can get the topic productive again.
The clear speed-up due to w10 seems to be in shutting down. We've been using it and doing full shutdowns between sessions just to get a feel for everything. When you tell it to power down it drops like it's been shot. None of that "windows is shutting down . . . . .shutting down . . . .shutting down . . . ." It just goes away in about the same time or less than holding down the power button. We tried shutting down with programs deliberately left open and it prompted for programs that still need to close, just like in the old money.
Also firefox seems to be faster and smoother -- you can shut off ad delivery, too.
We tried the upgrade on a dimension 9000 laptop (XP/w7 vintage) and were unsuccessful. It tried to load -- didn't claim any conflicts, but the load 'faded' and hung during the process. We were able to roll it back.
MS has said w10 isn't going to upgrade a pirated copy of w7. When I get home I'm going to grab a junk computer, force an unlicensed load of 7 and see what happens when I try to step up to 10.
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Just a little something about the Windows 10 upgrade, they have done a lot of work to actually clean up the registry during the upgrade so old junk that is not used anymore does not come over during the upgrade. This is generally a good thing.
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Back on track then . . .
We'll see how it goes over the next few days' use.
Good luck, hope it all goes perfectly. :thumb:
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My wife has two laptops, and operates the son's business on another. She found it took a long time to download and instal, even to the point of thinking something had gone wrong. She did however, just let it do it's thing and so far it appears all good.
As an aside, but definitely on topic, she always had trouble with her own one; the "@" always came up with some other symbol. She had delved in to the machine and altered it but it always came back. We went in yesterday to the place we had got it from and the very helpful techie had it sorted in no time. Comment has already been made about the extra layer that is in a lot of W10. Seems like when it was set up originally the keyboard was set as English. It needed to be set as American. She could change it for the once, but an extra layer below is where you could set the parameters permanently.
After all was done, I asked him whether he thought there was any advantage in going W10 over the W7 professional that we have on our main computer, which although is closing on 8 years old is still pretty quick. He thought , yes. Two comments he made that were I thought important when upgrading:
(1) If you are upgrading a laptop make sure you are running on mains. They have had computers back in where the owners had started the upgrade running on battery only, the battery died and they then had to go through the whole shebang from scratch.
(2) Problems occur when the thing seems to be doing nothing when doing the driver section, so the owner does the "force" thing. It buggers up the whole driver thing. He said you HAVE to be patient and let it do it's own thing in it's own time.
As far as our main one goes, I think I will gather all the info as it comes to hand and make a decision in a few months time. I have registered, and I think MS give you a year to think about it. I am currently researching upgrades ready for when it finally goes boom. I bought the bits for it the day W7 came out, so it is getting a bit long in the tooth although they were upper end bits that I purchased. It is for example lacking USB3 and will limit the full speed of an SSD. So, in the meantime we wait.... :popcorn: :popcorn:
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An SSD in the hard drive slot should operate as though it was a traditional SATA hard drive -- usb3 shouldn't be an issue. I've got usb2 on the computer I'm typing on to write this, and its SSD upgrade has had no downside at all -- significant access speed improvement, lower internal temps and ~2x the battery life. Also, this mil-spec machine gets some rough treatment on the boat and on the road, an impact-shock resistant hard drive has been a life saver.
Our load last night did take a while. We started it and went off to do other things, dropping by occasionally to deal with the crashes that didn't happen. Once it was loaded we let it settle down and do drivers/updates. I don't know why folks feel the need to rush it -- loading an operating system isn't a race.
This is also pretty standard for all MS loads -- they take a while, but they theoretically only need to do it once. The good news is that since the w95 days when you fed the machine 15 (count'em!) floppies, the load time has been going down with every release.
. . .and yes -- don't try it with battery power only. I won't work on a laptop in my shop without the power supply. If I don't have a compatible one in my stash I send the customer home to get it. The potential for data loss/system shutdown in the middle of a procedure is just too great.
Do I so far see any compelling reason to upgrade a w7 machine to w10? No. If your w7 does the job and works your printer/scanner/etc don't fix what ain't broke. Chances are that an older machine will nedd upgraded components to be compliant, your old software might not work (office 2007 DID migrate well for us), and as you buy new software and peripherals you'll be forced into it soon enough . . . .
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One really cool thing about W10 is the ability to uninstall it if you don't like it. You have 30 days to uninstall it and everything will be back the way you're used to. I've already had to do that with 3 customers computers so far.
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One really cool thing about W10 is the ability to uninstall it if you don't like it. You have 30 days to uninstall it and everything will be back the way you're used to. I've already had to do that with 3 customers computers so far.
Harley tried something similar a few years back , didn't work out so well :evil: :grin:
Just joking Kev m .
Dusty
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I've been avoiding w10 upgrades on customer machines so far, but only because I'm grumpy about being forced into it. It doesn't seem to be that big a deal at the operational level. But I hate change and expense for administrative rather than tools-based reasons. I'll come to terms with it.
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An SSD in the hard drive slot should operate as though it was a traditional SATA hard drive -- usb3 shouldn't be an issue.
Thanks. I know the SSD will slot straight in; it's just that my motherboard speed is half of what the SSD is capable of. For the USB3, I was thinking of getting a USB3 card and slotting it in simply for my 1TB backup Passport which is USB3 and backs up pretty slow on USB2. I guess my thinking is that SSD's are continuing to improve all the time and the technology is getting cheaper, so by the time my machine spits it's dummy I will just upgrade to whatever looks pretty good at the time. Chip is a 955 Black with 8gig of ram, so it still goes ok for it's age/
Do I so far see any compelling reason to upgrade a w7 machine to w10? No. If your w7 does the job and works your printer/scanner/etc don't fix what ain't broke. Chances are that an older machine will nedd upgraded components to be compliant, your old software might not work (office 2007 DID migrate well for us), and as you buy new software and peripherals you'll be forced into it soon enough . . . .
Point taken. I will have a year to do a free upgrade if required. Our Office was purchased last year for the son's business so it is pretty late. My darling does his books at home so we got a five pooter license at the time. Office works fine on our old tower so unless it starts to misbehave I will take your advice and leave W7 on.
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One really cool thing about W10 is the ability to uninstall it if you don't like it. You have 30 days to uninstall it and everything will be back the way you're used to. I've already had to do that with 3 customers computers so far.
Thanks Luap, Did not know that.
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Point taken. I will have a year to do a free upgrade if required. Our Office was purchased last year for the son's business so it is pretty late. My darling does his books at home so we got a five pooter license at the time. Office works fine on our old tower so unless it starts to misbehave I will take your advice and leave W7 on.
Motherboard bus speed is motherboard bus speed is motherboard bus speed. Popping in a usb3 card isn't going to increase it. You'll hit the same bottleneck moving data on and off the card.
Is USB3 fster than SATA? I did not know that.
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I think the built-in roll-back - possibility is what makes the update slow. As far as I understand the process a clean new Win10 is downloaded and installed. The old Win7 (8, 8.1) installation then is sort of isolated, but it is there (and consumed about 40 gb on my machine). Then the programs either are "untied" from the old installation or copied and connected to Win10. After 30 days the old installation is erased automatically. I did this after 20 minutes or so.
As I wrote in a prior post the eSATA works MUCH better than with Win7. For the first time the 2Tb drive is an easy-to-use plug-and-play - device.
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Motherboard bus speed is motherboard bus speed is motherboard bus speed. Popping in a usb3 card isn't going to increase it. You'll hit the same bottleneck moving data on and off the card.
Is USB3 fster than SATA? I did not know that.
I suspect what Muzz was pointing out is that his motherboard based SATA controller is 1st Gen, not SATA II or III - and any SSD is faster than SATA I. A card-based controller with SATA II or III and USB 3.0 ports would get the best out of what he's got, but of course, the motherboard clock speed and CPU are what they are.
USB 3.0 theoretical top speed is 5 gbps; SATA I is 1.5, SATA II is 3, and SATA III is 6. So much depends on the chipset and device at the end of the cable, though, that USB 3 is a good match for either of the two newer SATA standards.
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That's news I can use.
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ITsec is correct in his assessment RK. It is in fact SataII, but is not III being a fairly old MB. The SSD will only ever go 1/2 speed.
The USSB3 was simply to lessen the time for the 1TB backup external HD to do it's thing. Takes forever at the moment.
Was even looking at PCIE2 SSB's to remove the SATA bottleneck but they are way more expensive. Yes, I know I can just transfer the SSB over when I update, but against that is waiting as the price for storage comes down. May be worth while waiting and getting a 1TB SSD and use the existing hard drive as backup. For most of our life I have used the AMD chips, as they give good value for money, go great on photo crunching and we do not do gaming. Am waiting for the Zen chip to be released and see how that goes. It has AM4 architecture, which none of them use at this stage.
Although I thought my better half and myself had agreed to wait until W10 had proved itself, while I was out she decided to download it and install it anyway. Seems like she has tried four times and the install has failed four times. It is definitely not a pirate version of windows, so we may have to check that out. Interesting comment that eSATA works way better on 10 than 7.
Thanks for all the info; all very helpful.
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Thanks. I appreciate your reviews. :thumb:
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Seems that there are several computer brands/types/combinations out there that will not upgrade yet. The wife could not get her newer ASUS laptop to upgrade either.
So, we are 1 for 3.
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After 2 weeks with Win 10 on. a tablet, this is my $.02.
I have a Surface tablet, a HP laptop, a home grown desktop, and I use a dozen PCs at work. At work I have one PC with Win 8.1, three with Win 7, and the rest are older antiques. I'm not one to experiment at work when there is nothing to gain, so they are untouched as yet, if ever. (these are mostly stand alone equipment controllers)
My home Surface tablet, laptop, and desktop have Win 8.1. Win 8.1 worked well on the tablet. On the non-touch screen devices, it is a learning curve, but works well once you learn it.
I upgraded the tablet to Win 10, even though Win 8.1 is/was the most friendly on it. My tablet tends to be a spare that I can experiment on. I did the Win 10 upgrade and generally all was well. But the backup copy of win 8.1 eat a lot of my SSD, and I had a few odd things going on. So I reformatted the drive and reinstalled win 8, then the 8.1, then 10 upgrades. I have a lot of free space on the drive now. All works well.
The pros of win 10, it boots fast, the interface is a bit more like win 7 and less reliant on the touch screen. All of my apps work. My WiFi would always take a long time to first connect, now it is quick. Boot up is quick. The new Edge browser is fast, so I won't be needing Chrome any more. Battery life is equal to what it was previously. It has a tablet mode and non-tablet mode, which can auto-switch when I remove the keyboard.
The cons of win 10, it has less touch functionality. Some of the built in apps, email and calendar notably, still need some polishing. I needed to tweak some drivers for the tablet so the tablet would stay in 'sleep' mode.
I will be upgrading my laptop when I get a chance. Or maybe the desktop. Lightning hit my weather station a few days back and passed into the desktop and took it out, so maybe I'll update when I repair that.
My sister in law contacted me and asked me if she should upgrade win 7 machine. I told her no, since she would need the email app, and I'm 600 miles away and don't want to get into that. Plus with no touch screen, there is little to be gained for her.
Basically, unless you want to play around with it, wait another month or two for the things like the mail app and driver glitches to be cleaned up. But if you like to play with this stuff, go for it, it works. If you can possibly reformat your disk and start clean, even better, IMHO.
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This came to me in an email. I haven't had a chance to look at because I'm at work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLiozMpqV80
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(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/worwig/publicshare/tin-foil-hat.jpg) (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/worwig/media/publicshare/tin-foil-hat.jpg.html)
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As a Windows 7 user who never tried Windows 8, I'm not particularly impressed with it. I only read a representative sample of the other responses (6 pages & counting!), & keeping in mind that I'm far from a computer hero/nerd, but so far the primary pros are that it does seem to boot up quicker & the visuals are a bit nicer than Windows 7. On the cons, the irritating advertising pop-ups are more numerous than ever, by at least a factor of 2 if not more. It freezes my computer while doing mysterious stuff in the background more than Windows 7 did. As some others have noted, some features useful to me that were easy to find with 1 or 2 clicks in Windows 7 are now buried in lower levels intuitive only to technical users, not daily drivers like myself - control panel and printer information/status/controls come to mind first. It took me 30 minutes to find out why my printer wasn't printing; it would have taken me 2 minutes or less with Windows 7.
I now wish I had waited until after the first of next year to upgrade (free), but I've done it now & will try to live with it for at least awhile.
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Some of the differences are learning curve issues. As long as the functionality is there and can be used, I can probably learn it -- even if I don't learn to love it. I don't think the move from 7 - 10 would be as difficult as from 8 - 10.
I just got a half-dozen desktops and ten 'tablet'-laptops and some workgroup-level printers in as functional surplus. They're running opsys from XP to 7/vista, and all have been force-retired due to W10 -- the company doesn't want to spoon-feed the upgrade just to see if they're 100% compliant.
The obligation I made was to security erase the hard drives (and get them the hell out of the server room). Beyond that their disposal/refurbishment is up to me. I've got enough stuff here to do some serious experimenting if I get bored with everything else. The bad news is that none came with system disks or recovery partitions. I have to scramble to find Toshiba, Fujitsu, and acer w7 disks before I can tinker with them. I've sent off 1,000 boxtops and 2900 green stamps to Toshiba for the Portege factory disks. The Toshibas are 'downgrade-loaded" with XP, licensed for 7, and had Vista disks (useless) included. I'll start there and we'll see what happens.
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Some of the differences are learning curve issues. As long as the functionality is there and can be used, I can probably learn it -- even if I don't learn to love it. I don't think the move from 7 - 10 would be as difficult as from 8 - 10.
I just got a half-dozen desktops and ten 'tablet'-laptops and some workgroup-level printers in as functional surplus. They're running opsys from XP to 7/vista, and all have been force-retired due to W10 -- the company doesn't want to spoon-feed the upgrade just to see if they're 100% compliant.
The obligation I made was to security erase the hard drives (and get them the hell out of the server room). Beyond that their disposal/refurbishment is up to me. I've got enough stuff here to do some serious experimenting if I get bored with everything else. The bad news is that none came with system disks or recovery partitions. I have to scramble to find Toshiba, Fujitsu, and acer w7 disks before I can tinker with them. I've sent off 1,000 boxtops and 2900 green stamps to Toshiba for the Portege factory disks. The Toshibas are 'downgrade-loaded" with XP, licensed for 7, and had Vista disks (useless) included. I'll start there and we'll see what happens.
If you have license keys, I have master ISO copies for Win7 (and other versions) in various flavors that I can provide you. Drivers are there for most stuff up through late production, but proprietary stuff you'll need to download. Let me know.
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As some others have noted, some features useful to me that were easy to find with 1 or 2 clicks in Windows 7 are now buried in lower levels intuitive only to technical users, not daily drivers like myself - control panel and printer information/status/controls come to mind first. It took me 30 minutes to find out why my printer wasn't printing; it would have taken me 2 minutes or less with Windows 7.
I now wish I had waited until after the first of next year to upgrade (free), but I've done it now & will try to live with it for at least awhile.
One thing not mentioned much is that right-clicking on the Win10 START button brings up a pretty full menu of functions including Control Panel and others I use a lot.
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(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/worwig/publicshare/tin-foil-hat.jpg) (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/worwig/media/publicshare/tin-foil-hat.jpg.html)
It's what I thought. :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Soooooooo.......it seems that I'm getting the thumbs up :thumb: from most of the computer techies on the forum to upgrade to Windows 10. Thanks so far. I'm following the discussion and haven't made the upgrade yet. I have 8.1 on an ASUS laptop.
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Soooooooo.......it seems that I'm getting the thumbs up :thumb: from most of the computer techies on the forum to upgrade to Windows 10. Thanks so far. I'm following the discussion and haven't made the upgrade yet. I have 8.1 on an ASUS laptop.
I'd say from 8.1, it's worthwhile. However, I would definitely recommend reading the various linked pages mentioned, particularly the one at Slate, so you can head off the privacy problems before they start. Read them before upgrading, and maybe keep a printed copy to refer to while you perform the upgrade, and you'll save a lot of headaches and worry later...
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.single.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.single.html)
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I'd say from 8.1, it's worthwhile. However, I would definitely recommend reading the various linked pages mentioned, particularly the one at Slate, so you can head off the privacy problems before they start. Read them before upgrading, and maybe keep a printed copy to refer to while you perform the upgrade, and you'll save a lot of headaches and worry later...
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.single.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.single.html)
My take is that, for "techies" and those who just must be on the leading edge, it is a worthwhile update from 8.1 and a debatable worthwhile update from 7. For us normal non-technophiles (Luddites) it is a highly questionable update. If I weren't concerned with future obsolescence of Windows 7, with disappearing support for it from Microsoft & growing incompatibility with other programs that piggyback on Windows products, I'd go back to Windows 7 in a heartbeat. My choice is to stick with 10 now & get used to its unique set of issues & irritations, or go back to 7 and deal with the obsolescence/support issues in a year or 2. Of course, in a year or 3 we'll have Windows 11 or 12 coming out with a whole new set of issues, so......
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Of course, in a year or 3 we'll have Windows 11 or 12 coming out with a whole new set of issues, so......
Actually, the vision that Microsoft has expressed is that Windows 10 is the last 'version' of Windows. Future upgrades will come the same way they do in Android, as almost unseen, gradual, piece-by-piece replacement processes. There may be some declared milestones, but Windows is going to become some kind of amorphous 'current state' operating system. I'm not sure how happy those who have to provide support are going to be when they can't have confidence in the underlying foundation of what they are trying to deliver might be, but that's the declared intention of Microsoft. That's the major underlying driver for Microsoft to get everyone onto Win10, and to force the shift of update control into their hands rather than the user's; it's the only way this model works.
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Actually, the vision that Microsoft has expressed is that Windows 10 is the last 'version' of Windows. Future upgrades will come the same way they do in Android, as almost unseen, gradual, piece-by-piece replacement processes. There may be some declared milestones, but Windows is going to become some kind of amorphous 'current state' operating system. I'm not sure how happy those who have to provide support are going to be when they can't have confidence in the underlying foundation of what they are trying to deliver might be, but that's the declared intention of Microsoft. That's the major underlying driver for Microsoft to get everyone onto Win10, and to force the shift of update control into their hands rather than the user's; it's the only way this model works.
Well, as the old saying goes, "If you believe that then I've got some oceanfront property in South Dakota you might be interested in." It may come to be true, but I wouldn't base my current decisions on that "vision" from Microsoft. :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
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Then you should review the history of the industry. So far MS has 'prevailed' in every aspect of their vision/agenda. Not saying it is good or bad -- just that it is.
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I know in corporate circles, there is more than a little consternation on having upgrades/updates forced down rather than having an update server to push only those updates that don't break custom software. I haven't looked into it far enough yet to see if there is a way to shut off the auto update feature. I suppose when I get back from my vacation in DC it will be time to do that.
Overall, I think it's a reasonable upgrade, although I'd be happy to stay on W7 for a while longer - at least until the PhotoShop community gives a solid thumbs up to the change.
I'm curious to see if Microsoft goes to a subscription model on the OS or just on the application side of the house.
jdg
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If you use the enterprise SKU, there will be other options for getting updates.
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There is no compelling reason for my wife & I to move to Windows 10. I specifically ordered two new computers with Windows 7 directly from HP around 10 to 12 months ago because I wanted no part of Windows 8. Win 7 has served us well and by the time that Microsoft quits supporting it, I will probably be dead and gone. (I have very serious heart problems). If I'm still around when MS quits supporting it and we need new computers, I'll just buy new ones with Win 10 installed. I just don't see any reason to "upgrade" (if you can realistically call it that) from what works so well for us.
BTW: I have an identical cloned hard-drive for each of our computers in case of a total failure and if the motherboard went kaput on either machine, you can buy them, cheap.
My laptop also has Win7 and if it goes totally kaput, you can buy decent used ones on flea-bay & other places.
My Mac-Pro Desktop is a little over five years old and runs like the day I bought it. I also have two cloned drives sitting in the box in case of total failure because I have some very expensive software on that machine. What works for us; simply works and we feel no need to have the latest or greatest of most things that keep getting "upgraded"; many times, for the worse. YMMV
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If you use the enterprise SKU, there will be other options for getting updates.
Problem is, the MS license structure makes the enterprise version unaffordable to most small and medium businesses, even if they need that level of control. Enterprise license agreements don't make sense till you have at least 500-1000 licenses, last I looked.
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My Mac-Pro Desktop is a little over five years old and runs like the day I bought it.
Same here.
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My son won a Mac Pro laptop. :thumb: He's set for college.
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I had an error on the last critical update (8/28) and it killed my wireless driver. Since that's how I connect to the Internet I had a terrible time resolving it because even system restore needed something from Microsoft and without a connection I was toast. I managed to log in, boot to the advanced startup, and finally get it to restore but it took hours. The update installed again today and this time there were no errors.
The point is that all of this software is connected and big brother is watching everything. Not a problem for me but for others with security concerns...
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That news cast you had a link to Tom gives you some food for thought. I realize one could argue that we are probably monitored more than we realize already, but still..............
(I'm assuming that you have seen that news cast by now?)
John Henry
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Too late for me to worry about my privacy. I'm a state employee. I had to pass a background check to with the ex-offenders that I work with. :grin: Besides I'm using Reynolds heavy duty aluminum foil for tin foil hat. I double layered it. :evil:
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Ah, cool. Shiny side out or dull side out? :evil:
John Henry
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Ah, cool. Shiny side out or dull side out? :evil:
John Henry
If you're trying to keep the radiation out, the shiny side goes out - if you're trying to focus your thoughts and concentrate, the shiny side faces in!
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According to the betty crocker institute it doesn't matter*.
*true fact
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That's for when I want my brain to 'slow simmer' :)
Nope, no privacy on the net at all.
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Well, this POS W-10 kept getting worse by the day...
So Yesterday it got so bad that my wife, who had installed W-10 originally and who kept trying bravely to make it work finally gave in to my urging to Shiite-can W-10. Yesterday afternoon she nuked and paved the garbage that is W-10 and re-installed our previous system.
All is good again, and I can accomplish an internet search for; say...a "Tungsten Recoil Spring Guide Rod for a Sig 9mm pistol" in under a minute instead of half hour, what with all the frozen screens and re-starts and all that time wasting crap which were the joy of having to work with that complete piece of shit that is Windows 10..
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. . . . so, other than that how was it? :laugh:
I just got some Fujitsu laptops with fresh w7 loads. They claim to be compatible, so I've got the w10 upgrade scheduled for one. With luck it will be better than what you describe.
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It's interesting how on one machine it works fine and the other, not.
This cheap ASUS laptop is still doing fine with it.
But, I still won't upgrade the desktop (has my laser driver in it) until I know it is stable.
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It's interesting how on one machine it works fine and the other, not.
This cheap ASUS laptop is still doing fine with it.
But, I still won't upgrade the desktop (has my laser driver in it) until I know it is stable.
I think it's because of the dependence of the Microsoft mother ship. W10 is doing a lot of background stuff and is constantly accessing your connection for who knows what. If your desktop has a solid connection then it should be fine.
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I think it's because of the dependence of the Microsoft mother ship. W10 is doing a lot of background stuff and is constantly accessing your connection for who knows what. If your desktop has a solid connection then it should be fine.
Actually, there's good evidence that's not the case. My tablet is not consistently connected, and when it is, it has a relatively slow connection; however, it runs Win10 just fine. I also have reviewed the event logs to see when connections to MS are being made, and they are not that frequent (between once and four times a day, so far, as I have done the privacy protections I recommended earlier).
The big thing seems to be video and other device drivers. Some manufacturers are on the ball, some are not, and not all the generic drivers from Microsoft are really up to snuff. Video is a particular problem, since manufacturers may use a chipset from (for example) nVidia, they may not allow nVidia to deliver drivers for it, since they want to tweak them. OK for established operating systems, painful when moving from one OS to the next...
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I had some issues. Took the opportunity to reformat the disk and start fresh. Now not only am I enjoying Win 10, but I cleaned a lot of crap off the hard disk.
I think it is the process of updating a mystery machine that is the problem. Clean machines are less likely to have issues.
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I've told customers for years that migrating from a loaded opsys to a new one yields the worst of both worlds. If there are problems with the existing load, malware or file corruptions, bad hardware/drivers, software incompatibilities, pllugged hard drive, etc, there will be problems with the upgrade.
Whenever possible I want to start with a fresh partition. For this particular upgrade campaign there doesn't seem to be a 'free' option for a clean load -- you're going to have to lay it over a previous version. So the closest you can get is a fresh load of your W7/8.x. I'm doing security erasures and w7 loads (with updates and hoped-for devices and software) to prepare for W10.
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Well, this POS W-10 kept getting worse by the day
Sorry to hear about your difficulties .
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Yep, it sounds like my old upgrade from OS9 to OSX :)
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It's interesting how on one machine it works fine and the other, not.
This cheap ASUS laptop is still doing fine with it.
But, I still won't upgrade the desktop (has my laser driver in it) until I know it is stable.
I have a cheapie ASUS and it works okay. So it looks like I might update to Win 10 but I'm still reading the posts from everyone. :thumb:
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Ah, cool. Shiny side out or dull side out? :evil:
John Henry
I just make sure that there's olive oil involved. Dull side. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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What's the latest on Win 10 ??
I'm still getting the pop-ups offering it to me free.
Have not taken the plunge, yet.
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What's the latest on Win 10 ??
I'm still getting the pop-ups offering it to me free.
Have not taken the plunge, yet.
I have been using it for several months and it seem to working great. When I first installed it I lost the use Street and Trips mapping program, but I tried installing Streets and Trips again recently and it is now working like it did before W10.
Bob
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I've installed it on three machines now. On the first, I had some issues, so I cleaned the disk and reloaded from scratch. Which was a good thing anyway. It is working well and I really like it. One ten year old machine I had to look around to find a good video driver for it to work well.
I still have my desktop with Win 8.1 which is on 24/7 acting as a web server. I've been too lazy to upgrade it. That is a winter project.
As always, backup before doing anything like this. Macrium Reflect is good for that job.
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I jumped ship to it. I don't seem have any problems.
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Two PCs from W7 & a laptop from W8.1, running OK for a month now.
In prep for the W10 installation, your pc is checked for adequacy / compatibility, I was asked to uninstall some old software to continue.
Both PCs would wake up at night, one at 1PM every day - easy fixes though, set mouse & ethernet drivers not to be able to wake PCs, switched off a scheduled task in computer management that was set to wake the pc every afternoon.
So not effortless but not painful either.
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Thanks for the Slate link. Good stuff. :bow:
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Blue Screen Of Happiness?
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/windows-10-black-screen-of-death/6c3bbb22-fac1-4f3f-9c39-4b4ec5366540?page=2&auth=1 (http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/windows-10-black-screen-of-death/6c3bbb22-fac1-4f3f-9c39-4b4ec5366540?page=2&auth=1)
(http://6e03aa98bcc77146ae28-3ac901b1d4ca88bbebf58065706ee716.r78.cf5.rackcdn.com/imagefile1/images_2/Win10_FreeTodayNow.jpg)
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I've done it on two machines and neither has had any problems (they were both Win7). I upgraded wife's laptop but she didn't like the interface so she went back to Win8.
I have one more to do once I finish verifying that some special hardware drivers will work with it.
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So, if I'm happy with Windows 8.1 and Classic Shell, is there any compelling reason for me to "upgrade" to Windows 10 ??
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Longer support life.
A button that lets you decide if you want a more Win 7 or Win 8.1 (tablet) style interface.
You can run new 'modern apps' and old 'desktop apps' side by side.
It no longer does the 'mouse in the corners' thing, which worked well if you had a touch screen, but was odd if you did not.
The email and 'people' apps on Win 10 appear to support more services than Win 8.1 did.
But then, if you are happy....... don't fix it if it ain't broke.
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Normally an upgrade is a no brainer. But since XP, Microsoft has made me change my mind on that. Well, maybe since ME, but I was able to avoid that one.
If you have a good working system now (and is not too old) with software that does what you need, headaches are few and far between - just keep on truckin' with what you have. Some of the upgrades are to the benefit of the user, but too many seem to be for the benefit of Microsoft and the corporate world that makes a dime off you. If the user side had more of a payoff to make the rest tolerable I'd be a wee bit more inclined to at least say - meh - flip a coin.
I did it on my Lenovo laptop but it's rarely used (using the tool analogy, the Lenovo is my Whitworth set of tools :grin: ) and I had heard good things about it in the chatter within the Industry. When I drink the Koolaid, I drink Apple. When I need to be productive I grab what works. 10 for the desktop was three steps backwards so she stayed at 7. Nice to have things that work vs. shiny new stuff that doesn't (or just as bad, works but you have no idea how to use it).
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I'm staying with Windows 7. It's very stable, not broken and for me, there's no reason to upgrade.
Just saw this article a few minutes ago. http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/12/technology/microsoft-windows-10-update/index.html
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After Windows XP was made obsolete, I'm hanging onto W7 for as long as there is support. (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/Smileys/default/clock.gif)
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I upgraded my relatively new Toshiba laptop from 8.1 to 10 in hopes that it would improve the speed. from what I've seen there is a slight improvement but negligible and it's still a huge disappointment. no matter how much faster hardware gets, Microsoft finds a way to use it all and more. Someone needs to slap those people upside the head and tell them sometimes less is more.
I've tried disabling services that are supposedly resource hogs and done some other things I've read about but nothing has really improved it much. My 7 year old iMac at home runs circles around my one year old laptop for anything that I do. Similarly my cheap old clone at work running XP is also great compared to the POS 10.
Another step backward for technology....
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If your Toshiba is not running an SSD (solid state hard drive) check the rpm rating on it. If it's a 5400rpm drive, upgrading to 7200rpm drive is like doubling your main memory. Next step would be to an SSD drive.
If your main RAM is not max'd out, do so. If you are running Office or any photo apps, 16GB will do wonders. I consider 8GB to be the bare minimum.
Find out from the manufacture or use the calculator from a memory supplier (e.g. crucial, corsair etc.) to see what the maximum your laptop can take.
Laptops are funny; Lenovo's for example, can have one bank of memory easily accessible from a hatch on the bottom of the laptop but the second port in under the keyboard. Youtube vids can help show you how to get to it. Not as hard as it would first seem to be. Thinkpad hard drives are also very easy to replace so I suspect your Toshiba would be fairly easy too.
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I upgraded my relatively new Toshiba laptop from 8.1 to 10 in hopes that it would improve the speed. from what I've seen there is a slight improvement but negligible and it's still a huge disappointment. no matter how much faster hardware gets, Microsoft finds a way to use it all and more. Someone needs to slap those people upside the head and tell them sometimes less is more.
This.
Used to be that a big part of a programmers life was spent trying to make software 'lean and mean'. We ran a billion dollar laser system on three computers running 64KB (not MB) of memory and a 5MB hard drive.
Nowdays it's all about how many little gadgets you can have. So what if it takes a few GB of memory or a 100GHz processing speed. Just makes the users have to buy new computers.
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Someone needs to slap those people upside the head and tell them sometimes less is more.
"Less is more" is a my mantra for most things.
So I ride a smallblock.
And I'm still using Windows 7.
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While officially there is no such thing as a 'service pack' for Windows 10, the new patch set released this week is being acknowledged by MS leaders as basically filling the role of 'Service Pack 1' for the new OS.
This is an important step, since many IT pros (like me) advise waiting till the SP1 stage before upgrading. I'll be applying this new update to my Win10 test units, and will post anything remarkable here. Some important things to note are that additional drivers are available, further refinement of system boot speed and other things are claimed, and the level of control over application of updates for users with Pro or Enterprise Win10 has been improved. We'll see....
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I upgraded my relatively new Toshiba laptop from 8.1 to 10 in hopes that it would improve the speed. from what I've seen there is a slight improvement but negligible and it's still a huge disappointment. no matter how much faster hardware gets, Microsoft finds a way to use it all and more. Someone needs to slap those people upside the head and tell them sometimes less is more.
I've tried disabling services that are supposedly resource hogs and done some other things I've read about but nothing has really improved it much. My 7 year old iMac at home runs circles around my one year old laptop for anything that I do. Similarly my cheap old clone at work running XP is also great compared to the POS 10.
Another step backward for technology....
Yup, sounds familiar, maybe they need to add some more Apple(s)to their diet over there :smiley:
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Yeah, except I still remember the "upgrade" from OS9 to OS X. Horrible. Apple is the leader of stupid features that add bloat to a system.
The new service pack has sped up the boot time on my laptop. Program launching seems a bit smoother.
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So far my ASUS laptop is working fine. I keep getting upgrade notices for drivers.
I upgraded my Sony Vaio and desktop to the Linux upgrade killed both.
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I shut off automatic updates, no windoze 1.0 for mi.
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Yeah, except I still remember the "upgrade" from OS9 to OS X. Horrible. Apple is the leader of stupid features that add bloat to a system.
I can do all sorts of card banking on my apple iPad wifi'd to a banking machine. So far I have been told NOT to download the last two updates because they don't now support the banking. How does that work???? :rolleyes:
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I can do all sorts of card banking on my apple iPad wifi'd to a banking machine. So far I have been told NOT to download the last two updates because they don't now support the banking. How does that work???? :rolleyes:
I don`t know. :sad:
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I can do all sorts of card banking on my apple iPad wifi'd to a banking machine. So far I have been told NOT to download the last two updates because they don't now support the banking. How does that work???? :rolleyes:
The bank's application makes what are described as 'calls' to standard operating system components, and expects them to respond in a particular way. If the update changes those responses, the bank needs to update its application (or website) to handle the new responses correctly before it can accept users with the upgraded system. This is a chronic problem with applications that are tied too closely to the system they run on.
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While officially there is no such thing as a 'service pack' for Windows 10, the new patch set released this week is being acknowledged by MS leaders as basically filling the role of 'Service Pack 1' for the new OS.
This is an important step, since many IT pros (like me) advise waiting till the SP1 stage before upgrading. I'll be applying this new update to my Win10 test units, and will post anything remarkable here. Some important things to note are that additional drivers are available, further refinement of system boot speed and other things are claimed, and the level of control over application of updates for users with Pro or Enterprise Win10 has been improved. We'll see....
I've been following this thread waiting to see if I really, really wanted top make the change. I've read the article you linked to on Slate, and still wonder weather to take the plunge. Somewhere, maybe in that article or somewhere on this thread, I saw mention of not using the new browser but continuing to use Firefox, Chrome, or IE. Regarding IE: I thought it would go away. Is it still there?
John Henry
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I've been following this thread waiting to see if I really, really wanted top make the change. I've read the article you linked to on Slate, and still wonder weather to take the plunge. Somewhere, maybe in that article or somewhere on this thread, I saw mention of not using the new browser but continuing to use Firefox, Chrome, or IE. Regarding IE: I thought it would go away. Is it still there?
There is a new browser on Win 10 called Edge. It works well. IE is still loaded in case Edge is not compatible. We have one web site we use for project management at work that is only compatible with IE. Other than that, I use Edge.
I gave up on Chrome when I get Edge because it is a huge resource hog, even when you aren't running it. Never tried Firefox.
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I am going to guess you could install 10 on a USB flash drive: but I do not know if it is possible on a PC.
I did that with El Capitan to see if I liked it enough to do a clean installation of El Capitan on my Mac.
So I bought a Lexar 64 GB P20 jump drive that has read speeds rated @ 400 MB/s and write @ 270 MB/s. I down loaded El Capitan onto and then moved most of my files over from from my hard drive that is running Mavericks. I checked the speed with Black Magic and it reads and writes as advertised. Although obviously not as fast as my hard drive this flash drive works well enough to see how I like El Capitan which I like a lot and will do a clean install one of these days.
NOTE I am NOT trying to hijack this into a Mac vs Windows thread OK So no :boxing: :boxing: :boxing: stuff. I bring this up solely as an option that if it works on Windows will give you an idea if you want to make the move. I bought this jump drive for $35. I'll have plenty of use for it after I make the move over to El Capitan. In fact I may install my present OS X on it and keep all the files just for a back up. Not that I am that geeky but it has the capacity for me to take my computer contents in my pocket and run it off another computer if I was traveling.
In any case it is amazing to find a flash drive powerful enough to run a complete operating system with all files added on. Just do not push it to do too much. It's never crashed just takes a minute to sort out everything if I put in too many commands.
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Finally got the "service pack" to install on my laptop running Windows 10. Looks like some new multi-media stuff was installed; stuff I simply don't use. Big Meh from me. Your mileage may differ.
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Finally got the "service pack" to install on my laptop running Windows 10. Looks like some new multi-media stuff was installed; stuff I simply don't use. Big Meh from me. Your mileage may differ.
It will now sync 'Edge' favorites between devices. That is one thing I liked about Chrome. Other than that, I don't see much.
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I've been following this thread waiting to see if I really, really wanted top make the change. I've read the article you linked to on Slate, and still wonder weather to take the plunge. Somewhere, maybe in that article or somewhere on this thread, I saw mention of not using the new browser but continuing to use Firefox, Chrome, or IE. Regarding IE: I thought it would go away. Is it still there?
John Henry
As Wayne mentioned, there is the new Edge browser as well as an upgraded IE. IE carries a lot of baggage (read backwards compatibility), but Edge may not always work with corporate websites. IE will be (to use the official term) 'deprecated' - in other words, gradually starved and left to die. Opera was my mainstay till they abandoned their own engine and became a Chrome clone. Chrome has issues of privacy and code bloat. Firefox, while not what I would most like, is now my primary browser. I currently rate them as Firefox, Edge, Opera, Chrome, IE...
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This.
Used to be that a big part of a programmers life was spent trying to make software 'lean and mean'. We ran a billion dollar laser system on three computers running 64KB (not MB) of memory and a 5MB hard drive.
Nowdays it's all about how many little gadgets you can have. So what if it takes a few GB of memory or a 100GHz processing speed. Just makes the users have to buy new computers.
Brings back old memories of putting 4 pounds into a two pound bag, and often doing it with some creativity. I worked for the Friden Division of The Singer Company, selling Flexowriters and Computypers. Maybe some of you guys and gals remember these machines. The Flexowriters (very robust automatic typing machines) had no math capabilities, but could be linked to multiple paper tape readers in, paper tape punches out, and interfaced to IBM keypunches so that tab cards were punched as docs were typed.
The Computyper (5610) was basically a Flexowriter linked to a processor. It had no disk memory, 60 data registers of 13 (maybe 14) places, decimal point and + - sign. Since core memory was so expensive at the time, program and data memory was based on a delay line with transducers on each end of a 50' wire. Torsional twists were introduced to the wire ... a twist in one direction represented a 1, in the other direction a zero. When all this twisting got to the end of the coiled wire, it was put back on the beginning of the wire with a repeating transducer. "Repetitive" typing tasks used edge punched cards. 500 customers = a tub file containing 500 edge punched cards. You sold 300 items = 300 edge punched cards.
Regarding the delay line storage .... don't pull the plug, or you'll be starting over. We sold a lot of Sola constant voltage regulators, because a line spike could shut it all down, much to the dismay of the accounting dept. running payroll!
Fun stuff ... and all gone by 1975.
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I have a HP laptop that is running Windows 8.1 and I kept getting pop up messages imploring me to upgrade to Windows 10. I don't use this laptop a whole lot, mostly for tuning motorcycles. I have TuneBoy, Tune ECU, Power Commander GuzziDiag and some other reference stuff on it so I thought I'd do the upgrade, because Windows 8 is just plain weird.
It downloaded for a long time, 2 hours plus, and had the usual windows installation software, a cleanup thing, a Windows photo program. It looked like it was going great and then it just vanished. Nothing. It didn't install, no error messages, no nothing. I still have Windows 8.1 and it seems to work. I Googled "8.1 Installation Problems" and it came up with every kind of nonsense you can imagine. Most of those started with "Click on Start".... 8.1 doesn't have start. No one seems to be able to resolve this and the Windows website is in denial.
You might want to pass on this "upgrade" and if you are thinking about doing it to a work computer run like the wind. Buy a Mac.
Tom
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I have an HP laptop that has been sending messages for three months about obtaining 10. And then tells me it may send it me in a few days or a few months. It's been months and I've gotten nothing.
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I shut off automatic updates, I'm keeping Windows 7 as long as I can. :thewife:
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I shut off automatic updates, I'm keeping Windows 7 as long as I can. :thewife:
:1:
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Windows 7 will be around a long time. For Windows 8.x if you want a start button there are a lot of ways to get one. You can also dump straight into the old style desktop on startup and unless you're the type to have a bazillion icons floating around, work cleanly without ever needing the "start" button.
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I'm on a Dell 2 in 1 notebook/tablet running Windows 8.1. I fell for the constant offers and urgings to upgrade to Windows 10 and installed it. I took one look at the horrible user interface and uninstalled it three minutes later. 8.1 is so easy to use.
I bet Windows 10 will be known as the new Windows Vista in a few months.
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I have an antique HP laptop. Upgraded it to 10. No issues. I did eventually upgrade the hardware because I wanted a touch screen, more RAM, and a few other new features.
I have a newer tablet with Win 8.1. After the upgrade I have issues with the email app, so I wiped the drive, reinstalled 8.1, then put on Win 10. All is well.
I upgraded my desktop PC around thanksgiving. I had to reinstall a USB camera driver. Other that that, it is working great.
I look forward to when we can finally install Win 10 on the old Dells PCs at work.
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I'm on a Dell 2 in 1 notebook/tablet running Windows 8.1. I fell for the constant offers and urgings to upgrade to Windows 10 and installed it. I took one look at the horrible user interface and uninstalled it three minutes later. 8.1 is so easy to use.
Funny.
If you look back when Win 8.0 and 8.1 came out, all of those tin foil hat wearers could only talk about how horrible the user interface was. In reality, for a tablet, it was very useful.
BTW, there is a 'tablet' mode in Win 10 that makes it almost Win 8.1 like. I use that on my tablet.
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I've got windows 8 unfortunately... keep getting the upgrade to windows 10 ads as well...
can anyone tell me how to turn off automatic updates????
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I've got windows 8 unfortunately... keep getting the upgrade to windows 10 ads as well...
can anyone tell me how to turn off automatic updates????
http://www.softwareok.com/?seite=faq-Windows-8&faq=34
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After I posted a thread on Windows 10 upgrade, I waited to do the upgrade from 8.0. Had to do it 2 times. The 2nd time it went through. No problems since.
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My update to windows 10 went flawlessly.
I sat there and waited for the world to end and all sort of bigger problems to come up but all that happened was that Windows 8.1 went away and Windows 10 appeared.
I like the new one more.
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I have 10 on my tablet and it's ok. Tried it on my laptop but it broke my SD reader and BluRay player so that's back on 7.
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I upgraded to 10 on this all-in-one and I like it. I've had a few update issues but otherwise it's been good. I also have a Dell laptop running my music app (Foobar) and services (Spotify, Amazon) and I see no need to update it right now. So I guess it all depends on the use, but 10 is good for an everyday computer experience.
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Windows 10? I'm getting pop ups for 11. I'll stay with 7.
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There's a loooong thread re: Windows 10 pluses &/or minuses already on the general discussioin site. It's worth wading thru it to pick up some tips on how to live with W10 - especially how to control/eliminate most of the intrusive privacy policies that are hidden in W10.
Sorry, I don't remember the subject title, but a search should probably locate it.
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I shut off automatic updates, I'm keeping Windows 7 as long as I can. :thewife:
I have three laptops; two are H-P that came with Windows 7 and the third, a Lenovo, came with W-8 and immediately was retrofitted with Widows 7. No other operating software need apply.
Ralph
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I've got windows 8 unfortunately... keep getting the upgrade to windows 10 ads as well...
can anyone tell me how to turn off automatic updates????
The best tool for managing this that I've found is GWX Control Panel - make sure you get it from the developer's site, as a lot of the versions on the various download boards are outdated. See http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html)
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The best tool for managing this that I've found is GWX Control Panel - make sure you get it from the developer's site, as a lot of the versions on the various download boards are outdated. See http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html)
Yes! I have been using the GWX control panel (with success) because Microsoft has become extremely aggressive with their attempts to put Win 10 on all three of our PC's. We also have an Apple desktop Pro and I thought that Apple was pushy...........Mic rosoft has far exceeded anything that Apple has done (to me) in pushing this operating system that I do NOT want. Win 7 does everything that we need so we have ZERO interest in this so-called upgrade.
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Was upgrading my hard drive from 1TB to 2TB. Worked fine and then I broke my boot settings. Stupidly clicked on "restore defaults." Tried starting over with a fresh install of Win 7 from my purchased copy. Nothing but headaches. Downloaded the Windows 10 .iso and did a fresh install with it. Beautiful. Not a single problem so far. Even my sunset edition of Microsoft Money works. So now I've got a dual boot Win10 Ubuntu 15.1 and all is well.
-AJ
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Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but there's a new development and it's worth using a thread that has a lot of the discussion already contained in it.
Microsoft is stepping up the pressure in the last couple of months before the end of the 'free upgrade' to Windows 10. The latest updates to Windows 7/8x will lead to a Windows 10 upgrade prompt with a rather unexpected behavior. In most cases, when you close a window using the 'X' in the corner, it stops the action shown. In this case, closing the Windows 10 upgrade prompt using the 'X" will NOT stop the upgrade process.
A plain-language description of this issue is here - http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36367221 (http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36367221). As mentioned previously, I recommend the use of GWX Control Panel to put a fence around this process if you do not choose to move to Windows 10.
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Thanks for that. There are just a few weeks left for the free upgrade. Then it will cost $150. So if a person is inclined to do the load, now is the time.
I have used the gwx control panel successfully. It's easy to make choices and make it happen -- or not. The program seems harmless otherwise.
The long way around is to uninstall and then (after restarting) hide update KB3035583 (the source of the nagging) and then go to windows updates and hide the gwx update. Restart and check updates again to be sure the uninstall/hide worked for you.
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Thanks guys! Dang KB *****83 had installed again. Removed it, installed GWX and Bob is my uncle. Instead of Bill. :angel:
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Thanks guys! Dang KB *****83 had installed again. Removed it, installed GWX and Bob is my uncle. Instead of Bill. :angel:
Can't blame Bill for this - he retired from MS long before Win10 reared its head. Now Ballmer - he's an escapee from Dante's Inferno, I just can't figure if it's from the fourth, eighth or ninth circle!
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He's from the 10th circle -- the one with the windows.
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IT Sec, based on things you had mentioned, I decided a while back to take the plunge. Then I went in and turned off everything that was turned on in privacy settings, also based on your suggestions. Finally, I found a small program called Spy Bot Anti Beacon. (Important to get the latest version.) It seems to shut down more stuff MS does not give you access to. (Telemetry and such.) There was also stuff like X Box that Windows will not let you uninstall. CC Cleaner let me uninstall that and a few other things I didn't want. The stuff 10 did let me uninstall still trues to scare you into leaving it with warning messages and such. I took them out anyway and have had no issues where things didn't work as a result.
John Henry
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I downloaded W10 a few months after introduction. I had problems with it and had it cleaned off my computer about 2 months afterwards.
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Can't blame Bill for this - he retired from MS long before Win10 reared its head. Now Ballmer - he's an escapee from Dante's Inferno, I just can't figure if it's from the fourth, eighth or ninth circle!
You're right, but using Bill is a nasty habit and most folks know Bill, fewer know Balmer (bless their little hearts, wish I could say the same!). :evil:
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A Californian woman has successfully sued Microsoft after Windows 10 auto-installed on her computer without permission and rendered the machine unusable.
“I had never heard of Windows 10,” said Teri Goldstein, whose computer was left unusable after the upgrade failed. “Nobody ever asked me if I wanted to update.”
Goldstein won $10,000 in court from Microsoft after attempts by customer support to fix the issue failed, and the debacle has most likely given those opposed to the aggressive upgrade campaign a satisfied grin.
Story here: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/27/microsoft-sued-10000-windows-10-auto-update-renders-ladys-pc-unusable/
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Today I dropped off our desktop to a friend who has his own computer business and is a very upright person. At the moment we have Windoze 7 Pro. My wife's laptop (on which she does a lot of our son's business stuff on) has Winddoze 10, which she unfortunately likes. As she does the final reconciliations on our desktop she wants W10 on it, as she is used to it. Our problem was, it downloads but will not install. With a very quick initial look he has found some programs that can cause hiccups, W10 evidently needs a reasonably clean hard drive before it will instal
The thing is 8 years old and I am currently researching to put together a new one. If I get the upgrade I will at least have W10 ready to go. Hopefully, it will last for about another year. He has already found that the hard drive has over 4 years continuous use logged on it!
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Still using Win 10 on my Dell Latitude E6410 from 29 July 2015, additionally on a Dell Latitude E6400, an E7440 and two E7420. No problem with any of these machines. For my own 6410 I have setup a Microsoft account that I use for some tasks (not data-sensitive), it works flawlessly with my Lumia 620 and my Lumia 950, both also with Windows 10.
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The thing is 8 years old and I am currently researching to put together a new one. If I get the upgrade I will at least have W10 ready to go. Hopefully, it will last for about another year. He has already found that the hard drive has over 4 years continuous use logged on it!
An 8-year-old machine is not a good candidate for an upgrade past Windows 7, as the driver structure changed for Win8 and again for Win10 (big change). Even if the upgrade is successful, it will likely have more quirks than an old Moto Guzzi (Guzzi content! :wink: ). A good rule of thumb is that machines no older than 5 years old can usually be upgraded with a bit of care, and those built in the last three years are usually no hassle at all (other than the usual privacy concerns, of course).
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Just upgraded last week. My computer works better than when I bought it. I had lots of trouble with frozen pages and locked mouse. This has cured it 90%.
I like the graphics and interface no worse than before. Not much difference really. But this HP laptop works much better.
The wife told me her Toshiba works better since upgrading it a couple of months ago. Her machine was painfully slow and the speed has improved to a more usable level.
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I was on vacation and computer went nuts.
it started putting "jjj" Ad infinitum (like I was holding down the key). on it's own. passwords, google searches. Then Mozill and I tunes cam up (which I don't use either). I would restart it. About the 10th try it would work. Then I'd open my computer and it would happen all over again.
I got home and was prompted to reload 10. But this time, it took all my separate programs. Luckily I didn't loose my data files. But I am reloading program now.
Seems to work, but it scrolls at 200 mph.
Time for a new laptop.
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I've got Windows 10 on one laptop and Windows 7 on another. Would be really hard pressed to notice any difference other than the top of the internet browser looks different.
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An 8-year-old machine is not a good candidate for an upgrade past Windows 7, as the driver structure changed for Win8 and again for Win10 (big change). Even if the upgrade is successful, it will likely have more quirks than an old Moto Guzzi (Guzzi content! :wink: ). A good rule of thumb is that machines no older than 5 years old can usually be upgraded with a bit of care, and those built in the last three years are usually no hassle at all (other than the usual privacy concerns, of course).
He ran a lot of diagnostics, no actual faults found but it still would not update. As I want the machine to run for about another year I ended up getting the latest WD 1tb Black HD and he put W10 on that, and swapped everything over. I will use the new HD as a backup on the future build. When I first built the thing I future proofed as much as I could, and it is still remarkably quick.
Machine is back on steroids again. :thumb: Back to being very quick and so far no hassles at all.
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A bit over a week later and I must say I am one happy camper. W10 is loading really fast, and the later incarnation of the WD Caviar Black is way faster than the early model that we took out and the 'pooter is running as it should do. So far we have had absolutely no hassles. Finding some of the tweaks that MS don't want you to know about can be a bit tricky. However, my friend who did the swapover has already done most of them for me.
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It went quite well on my desktop for the 1st 6 months, then I started to get "this program is not compatible with Windows 10" messages on 2 different programs and they would no longer run. Next I lost all message notification, things like "it is now safe to remove your USB drive". Tried the fix routine off a boot disk and all that was accomplished was I had to reinstall all software (office and so forth). Software still didn't run and still didn't have messages. Did a complete reinstall off the boot disk (couldn't get the restore from a system image to work). Still 2 programs wouldn't run (even in compatibility mode set for win7, I have 10 PRO). After enough searching online (with my win7 notebook) I found directions that worked and let me restore from my system image. Total experience lasted 3 days (8 hour days) and I ended up loosing a half dozen photographs and 3 documents. Just enough to really make me upset with Microsoft. :thewife: :violent1: :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :weiner:
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I can`t believe something like that could happen with a MS product! :bow:
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To make a long story short; I upgraded to Windows 10 but prior to that ran a specific program on Windows 7. It’d been a while since I used the program and when I tried to run it on 10 the program could not connect to the USB port. There is a specific driver for the USB port which of course I loaded. After a lot of searching I found out that Windows 10 will not recognize an “unsigned” driver. There is a process in Windows 10 to disable this function so as to allow Windows to recognize an unsigned driver. This little tidbit took me a whole day to research so I thought I would pass it on if you’re having USB/driver problems.
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Thanks "Piston" that works! Too bad they hide so much of the helpfull things.
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Thanks "Piston" that works! Too bad they hide so much of the helpfull things.
Have you tried to right-click on the "Start" - button?
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I had a problem with my laptop (which now I believe was caused by crap in the keyboard), this caused me to reload WIN 10.
Now this is what I learned.
When you upgrade to Win 10, you're programs are left intact.
When reload to Win 10, you're programs are deleted.
It's pretty straight forward to reload programs available on the web, etc. But embedded Windows programs (like Photo Viewer and Editor) are gone. Research tells me they still exist but you have to change the registry to be able to access them. BTW- the new program is called "Photos". It has a different feel and on first look seems to offer few photo adjustments but it supposedly has more edit options. I haven't played with it but like most Windows upgrades, the user interface is changed for no apparent reason but the capability is marginally different. Shit like that drives me nuts.
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Free W10 offer expires July 29.
IF you are on the fence you can do this...
Upgrade to W10, rollback to whatever you are running if you want to and you'll STILL have reserved your right to a legit W10 license for that device if that's how you want to go in the future.
:afro:
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man ....Win 10 wiped out so many programs (apps).
I had to download shareware just to play a DVD. MS took away their own media player. Of course they want to sell you a new app. And they want you to do everything to go through their browser, MS Edge.
I already mentioned how the MS Photo Viewer was deleted (I think it's actually on my computer but disabled). At least MS has a replacement (I don't like the interface but I read it's more capable).
It's a real power play.
I even bought a new Dell laptop (crap) with a DVD player built in (one of the last) and it didn't have media player software. I had to find shareware. I sent it back to Dell yesterday. No Dells for me.
Win 10 is the first OS I've seen that actively took away capability.
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Wow, John, so much disinformation. Of course the Windows media Player is still there. I still use it on each machine I have with Win 10 (with the sole exception of my phones). But: Groove Music in the meantime is a very useable media player even if you only have local music folders (like me).
Saying "all Dell laptops are crap" because you have bad experience with an assumedly not too pricey consumer model is of course - well - a bit harsh. We use for about 15 years now Dell Latitude laptops in my family (beginning with the old D600 which still runs as my Linux testbed) from the E6000 - and E7000 - series and all are flawless. For years. All machines in use (5 pieces in the moment from different years) run under Win 10. My own E6410 since 29 July 2015.
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I didn't say all Dells were crap. I used them at work and that's why I tried to purchase another.
And my current HP computer and the Dell I sent back did not have DVD playing s/w after I loaded Win 10. The DVD would not play. I downloaded VLC. The MS Media player is gone.
In fact, more than 100 apps were deleted on HP. I have a list of them on my desktop.
I will tell you my experience with Dell was terrible. After I had to load Win 10 (I ordered it preloaded, instead I got a CD) and talking to the tech setting bios, it took three tries until the CD would reboot and load Win 10. Then the deal breaker, the scroll pad didn't work. I never got an invoice despite giving them my e-mail address. So it was not ordered as I requested. I must've sent them 10 e-mails just to be directed to an online order form (which did not match what I ordered). It took two phone calls for them to e-mail me a return label.
I still need a new Laptop. I am looking at a Lenovo. I won't buy another mail order machine.
disinformation?
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Ok, accepted.
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I never buy mail order computers anymore. I have to try the keyboard before I buy it. My second test is to 'twist' it. If it flexes too much I don't buy it. That rules out a ton of them. I've had a lot of different brands and Toshiba is one I keep going back to. I'd get an HP Elitebook if they were cheaper. Had several at work and they were nice. Cheaper HP's didn't cut it. Sony was OK. Asus is actually good for the money, but, they are not as durable for me (I tend to be tough on my laptops). Same with other brands.
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My cheap HP is literally falling apart. It never worked well when I bought it. Truthfully, it only worked right when I UPGRADED to Win 10. But when I was travelling something must've gotten lodged in the keyboard. I thought it was a glitch or virus, and I was prompted to RELOAD Win 10. That's when everything was purged. I finally slammed the computer down and it fixed the glitch.
I'd like to get a new laptop. The reason I ordered the crappy Dell was because it was the only one that had an optical drive and 14 inch monitor- both exceedingly rare. I am resigned to getting a 14 in laptop and external drive.
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Keyboards are very personal, and very easy to find one you like and use it instead of the supplied one. No reason to base a computer purchase off the keyboard.
I bought a couple IBM "clicky clacky" old style keyboards; one for work, one for home. Kinda loud, but excellent feel to them. Had to use a PS/2 to USB adaptor but they are tanks.
Lenovo Thinkpads (and I assume others, but not Apples so much) make it very easy to swap hard drives so instead of ditching Windows 10 all together I got me two SSD hard drives, one for Windows 7 (with GWX running to keep 10 off of it) and one running Windows 10 (because I could not over look a free upgrade! - Guzzi content - and hey, at some point Windows 7 just won't fly, if I live long enough that is).
SSD's are a bit more expensive - but performance wise it's like doubling your memory - they can be the bee's knee's. But regular hard drives are not that expensive making them a viable option for those that dread upgrading. Clone your OS onto the new drive, upgrade the new drive to 10, swap as needed. You'll want to swap from time to time to keep the updates from getting too far behind, but it will take away a lot of the risk.
If the new upgrade totally fails, you at least have a new back up drive.
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But for a laptop the keyboard is a big part of the purchase choice. Have not purchased a desktop computer in 10 years.
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Ah! ya, you can do an external keyboard but I've never bothered. I had a Dell laptop, keyboard sucked. The Lenovo is OK, but my last three Mac Books have pretty good keyboards. Would not have thought just looking at them. Even my old 12" one. Small but not cramped (tried a notebook once and the keyboard was just too small).
Desktops have really taken a hit haven't they?
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I wonder what's going to happen to the work computers? We have Win 7 and I keep getting the prompt to download 10. That's blocked by our IT section for the State of Hawaii. July 29 it crashes? :tongue:
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Yeah, desktops are really hanging on just because of the amount of processing power some people still need, like gamers :) And even many of them are moving to higher power laptops.
For many years I had one of the old IBM keyboards. They were made due to demand from secretaries (and other electric typewriter uses). It had the same key switches, layout and hefty feel of the Selectric typewriters. That was also back when I could still type 70wpm :) Also one reason why I can't use a tablet for typing. Besides being too small I was trained for 40 years to rest my fingers lightly on the keys. Even tried adding a keyboard to the tablet, but, then you just have a laptop bulk so that's what I use now.
I did have a netbook at one time and could do pretty decent on the little keyboard. My current laptop has a 12" screen so the keyboard is not quite standard size.
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I wonder what's going to happen to the work computers? We have Win 7 and I keep getting the prompt to download 10. That's blocked by our IT section for the State of Hawaii. July 29 it crashes? :tongue:
We had Win7 computers at work too, for security reasons. Seems they could not get Win10 certified. But, three of my computers weren't connected to the internet anyway.
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Since I work with public and do some background checks, I need the internet. We'll see how it affects usage later. Currently at work now.
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As has been discussed, there are ways to stop the forced upgrade and stop the nagging. It's a none-issue. W7 will be reluctantly supported through 2019, so that too is really a non-issue for computers originally built for W7. Many corporations and even small businesses stay in W7 because it can take years to certify that they can get their jobs done with something else. Gates & Co. have basically given them a deadline of 2020 to sort it out.
But the answer to another question -- Yes, RIP PC. 1980-2015. My business dropped over 90% between June 2015 and June 2016. I literally made 10% of June15 in June16. It's all about smartphones and tablets now at the personal level and all about corporate IT at the business level. W10 kilt the PC.
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I wonder what's going to happen to the work computers? We have Win 7 and I keep getting the prompt to download 10. That's blocked by our IT section for the State of Hawaii. July 29 it crashes? :tongue:
Your IT department should just install GWX and send the creator a donation - I've tested it for security issues and it is completely benign (so far).
July 29, the nagware changes so that you get offered a 'catch-up now while it's cheap!' offer :evil:
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Went ahead and did the Windows 10 free upgrade this evening while I was at the barn.
Got back home and the computer works just fine after the upgrade. (HP ENVY laptop).
Need to go in and clamp down the privacy, I guess. Everything is currently at default.
First impression is it works fine and seems easy to navigate.
Now, to find those privacy settings...
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Just bought a new computer with Win 10 and this one has all the media stuff and works OK. Win 10 still tries to lead me to purchase programs I don't need. I've discovered lots of freeware that I didn't know I needed.
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I have to chase down an alternate program for writing documents. I still get the prompt to purchase Office.
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I have an older version of Office. Just loaded that on my new Win 10 laptop. All is well.
Of course there is the free ONLINE office stuff, that works well. But I hate relying on cloud services like that.
And there is Open Office, which is OK. But it doesn't handle my Access databases well enough.
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I have to chase down an alternate program for writing documents. I still get the prompt to purchase Office.
Go to fleabay, I got a new in box version of MS Office Educators version cheap.
Dean
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I have to chase down an alternate program for writing documents. I still get the prompt to purchase Office.
LibreOffice is a complete suite with equivalents of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Access and so on. There is also a graphics program that combines features of CorelDraw and Visio, and an equation editor like the extension available from Microsoft. You can get versions that run on Windows, Mac, Linux etc. Download is available from http://www.libreoffice.org/ (http://www.libreoffice.org/)
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Thanks, I'll check it out. :thumb:
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I have to chase down an alternate program for writing documents. I still get the prompt to purchase Office.
Try "Open Office". It's free and will read new Office documents that my old MS Office XP won't. Seems to work just like Office. MS likes to make their old stuff obsolete, so this is great. It works with the new stuff.
Got it from my son, who recommended this one-stop cite to set up any computer with the best freeware. Save lots of time and identifies new options.
https://ninite.com/
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Cool!
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I installed it on 2 of my computers and it slowed down both of them on the internet. It seems that the ads get priority over all else. My internet speed is less than 1 mbs. That's all that is offered where I live. I'm thinking of dumping my land line and just go to a 4g set up.
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I installed it on 2 of my computers and it slowed down both of them on the internet. It seems that the ads get priority over all else. My internet speed is less than 1 mbs. That's all that is offered where I live. I'm thinking of dumping my land line and just go to a 4g set up.
Out of curiosity, pls confirm what "it" you installed - Windows 10 or "Open Office"? I don't need to slow down my computer any more! On another note of probably little interest to most of you reading this thread, but irritating to me, Windows 10 just "changed the rules" on my solitaire game with no notice, no opportunity to keep the former structure, & no apparent way (or at least no instructions) to recover the statistics I had amassed on the original form of the game I was playing ("Klondike"). Just another little clue concerning how much contempt the MS staff has for the non-techie end-user...
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Try "Open Office". It's free and will read new Office documents that my old MS Office XP won't. Seems to work just like Office. MS likes to make their old stuff obsolete, so this is great. It works with the new stuff.
Got it from my son, who recommended this one-stop cite to set up any computer with the best freeware. Save lots of time and identifies new options.
https://ninite.com/
Open Office and LibreOffice are two forks of the same source product. Both are free, both work pretty well, but historically the LibreOffice branch has had a bit more frequent updates and more community support.
By the way, related to another issue raised by OMG, neither of these products are cloud services - they both install to your system and can be used without Internet access.
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Out of curiosity, pls confirm what "it" you installed - Windows 10 or "Open Office"? I don't need to slow down my computer any more! On another note of probably little interest to most of you reading this thread, but irritating to me, Windows 10 just "changed the rules" on my solitaire game with no notice, no opportunity to keep the former structure, & no apparent way (or at least no instructions) to recover the statistics I had amassed on the original form of the game I was playing ("Klondike"). Just another little clue concerning how much contempt the MS staff has for the non-techie end-user...
I've been moving the solitaire games forward from older operating systems since what W10 really wants you to do is buy stuff -- like their solitaire package -- which has all the features they're pulling from the gimme W10 versions.
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I installed it on 2 of my computers and it slowed down both of them on the internet. It seems that the ads get priority over all else. My internet speed is less than 1 mbs. That's all that is offered where I live. I'm thinking of dumping my land line and just go to a 4g set up.
I am amazed it doesn`t work perfectly like all other MS products.
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I've been moving the solitaire games forward from older operating systems since what W10 really wants you to do is buy stuff -- like their solitaire package -- which has all the features they're pulling from the gimme W10 versions.
My son has it together, go to this and get all the free stuff that works better and doesn't go obsolete after you buy it.
https://ninite.com/
(you can load all the free stuff at once with a few clicks)
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I know that GWX has been around for a while, but Never10 https://www.grc.com/never10.htm (https://www.grc.com/never10.htm) isn't as complicated plus the grc.com website has lots of goodies to use.
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I know that GWX has been around for a while, but Never10 https://www.grc.com/never10.htm (https://www.grc.com/never10.htm) isn't as complicated plus the grc.com website has lots of goodies to use.
Steve Gibson is an long-ago correspondent of mine, back to when he first wrote SpinRite (I have a paid license for it from about 1985-87 I think!). He does good work. Either of these two tools are worth using if you don't want to upgrade to Win10.
It will be interesting to see what happens next week when the free upgrade is no longer being pushed. Will MS just do a nag screen with no download unless you agree, or...?
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Spinrite was an essential tool back in the days of MFM and RLL. How else could you get your sectors sectioned and your interleave left?
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I used Spinrite a few months back. Now that Steve is finishing up his SQRL project, he's going to work on the next version of Spinrite to deal with newer drives, better ACPI support, etc. And if you want to listen to Steve talk security on a weekly basis, he does a podcast over at twit.tv.
www.twit.tv/sn (http://www.twit.tv/sn)