Author Topic: Anyone using Windows 10? (Read 72637 times)

stormshearon · « **Reply #150 on:** August 21, 2015, 04:24:37 PM »

Just a little something about the Windows 10 upgrade, they have done a lot of work to actually clean up the registry during the upgrade so old junk that is not used anymore does not come over during the upgrade. This is generally a good thing.

Kentktk · « **Reply #151 on:** August 21, 2015, 04:31:59 PM »

Quote from: rodekyll on August 21, 2015, 04:35:58 AM

Back on track then . . .
We'll see how it goes over the next few days' use.

Good luck, hope it all goes perfectly.

Muzz · « **Reply #152 on:** August 21, 2015, 05:47:46 PM »

My wife has two laptops, and operates the son's business on another. She found it took a long time to download and instal, even to the point of thinking something had gone wrong. She did however, just let it do it's thing and so far it appears all good.

As an aside, but definitely on topic, she always had trouble with her own one; the "@" always came up with some other symbol. She had delved in to the machine and altered it but it always came back. We went in yesterday to the place we had got it from and the very helpful techie had it sorted in no time. Comment has already been made about the extra layer that is in a lot of W10. Seems like when it was set up originally the keyboard was set as English. It needed to be set as American. She could change it for the once, but an extra layer below is where you could set the parameters permanently.
After all was done, I asked him whether he thought there was any advantage in going W10 over the W7 professional that we have on our main computer, which although is closing on 8 years old is still pretty quick. He thought , yes. Two comments he made that were I thought important when upgrading:
(1) If you are upgrading a laptop make sure you are running on mains. They have had computers back in where the owners had started the upgrade running on battery only, the battery died and they then had to go through the whole shebang from scratch.

(2) Problems occur when the thing seems to be doing nothing when doing the driver section, so the owner does the "force" thing. It buggers up the whole driver thing. He said you HAVE to be patient and let it do it's own thing in it's own time.

As far as our main one goes, I think I will gather all the info as it comes to hand and make a decision in a few months time. I have registered, and I think MS give you a year to think about it. I am currently researching upgrades ready for when it finally goes boom. I bought the bits for it the day W7 came out, so it is getting a bit long in the tooth although they were upper end bits that I purchased. It is for example lacking USB3 and will limit the full speed of an SSD. So, in the meantime we wait....

rodekyll · « **Reply #153 on:** August 21, 2015, 09:27:57 PM »

An SSD in the hard drive slot should operate as though it was a traditional SATA hard drive -- usb3 shouldn't be an issue. I've got usb2 on the computer I'm typing on to write this, and its SSD upgrade has had no downside at all -- significant access speed improvement, lower internal temps and ~2x the battery life. Also, this mil-spec machine gets some rough treatment on the boat and on the road, an impact-shock resistant hard drive has been a life saver.

Our load last night did take a while. We started it and went off to do other things, dropping by occasionally to deal with the crashes that didn't happen. Once it was loaded we let it settle down and do drivers/updates. I don't know why folks feel the need to rush it -- loading an operating system isn't a race.

This is also pretty standard for all MS loads -- they take a while, but they theoretically only need to do it once. The good news is that since the w95 days when you fed the machine 15 (count'em!) floppies, the load time has been going down with every release.

. . .and yes -- don't try it with battery power only. I won't work on a laptop in my shop without the power supply. If I don't have a compatible one in my stash I send the customer home to get it. The potential for data loss/system shutdown in the middle of a procedure is just too great.

Do I so far see any compelling reason to upgrade a w7 machine to w10? No. If your w7 does the job and works your printer/scanner/etc don't fix what ain't broke. Chances are that an older machine will nedd upgraded components to be compliant, your old software might not work (office 2007 DID migrate well for us), and as you buy new software and peripherals you'll be forced into it soon enough . . . .

Luap McKeever · « **Reply #154 on:** August 21, 2015, 09:42:18 PM »

One really cool thing about W10 is the ability to uninstall it if you don't like it. You have 30 days to uninstall it and everything will be back the way you're used to. I've already had to do that with 3 customers computers so far.

oldbike54 · « **Reply #155 on:** August 21, 2015, 09:48:14 PM »

Quote from: Luap McKeever on August 21, 2015, 09:42:18 PM

One really cool thing about W10 is the ability to uninstall it if you don't like it. You have 30 days to uninstall it and everything will be back the way you're used to. I've already had to do that with 3 customers computers so far.

Harley tried something similar a few years back , didn't work out so well

Just joking Kev m .

Dusty

rodekyll · « **Reply #156 on:** August 21, 2015, 11:33:57 PM »

I've been avoiding w10 upgrades on customer machines so far, but only because I'm grumpy about being forced into it. It doesn't seem to be that big a deal at the operational level. But I hate change and expense for administrative rather than tools-based reasons. I'll come to terms with it.

Muzz · « **Reply #157 on:** August 22, 2015, 02:14:37 AM »

Quote from: rodekyll on August 21, 2015, 09:27:57 PM

An SSD in the hard drive slot should operate as though it was a traditional SATA hard drive -- usb3 shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks. I know the SSD will slot straight in; it's just that my motherboard speed is half of what the SSD is capable of. For the USB3, I was thinking of getting a USB3 card and slotting it in simply for my 1TB backup Passport which is USB3 and backs up pretty slow on USB2. I guess my thinking is that SSD's are continuing to improve all the time and the technology is getting cheaper, so by the time my machine spits it's dummy I will just upgrade to whatever looks pretty good at the time. Chip is a 955 Black with 8gig of ram, so it still goes ok for it's age/

Do I so far see any compelling reason to upgrade a w7 machine to w10? No. If your w7 does the job and works your printer/scanner/etc don't fix what ain't broke. Chances are that an older machine will nedd upgraded components to be compliant, your old software might not work (office 2007 DID migrate well for us), and as you buy new software and peripherals you'll be forced into it soon enough . . . .

Point taken. I will have a year to do a free upgrade if required. Our Office was purchased last year for the son's business so it is pretty late. My darling does his books at home so we got a five pooter license at the time. Office works fine on our old tower so unless it starts to misbehave I will take your advice and leave W7 on.

Muzz · « **Reply #158 on:** August 22, 2015, 02:15:42 AM »

Quote from: Luap McKeever on August 21, 2015, 09:42:18 PM

One really cool thing about W10 is the ability to uninstall it if you don't like it. You have 30 days to uninstall it and everything will be back the way you're used to. I've already had to do that with 3 customers computers so far.

Thanks Luap, Did not know that.

rodekyll · « **Reply #159 on:** August 22, 2015, 11:03:27 AM »

Quote from: Muzz on August 22, 2015, 02:14:37 AM

Point taken. I will have a year to do a free upgrade if required. Our Office was purchased last year for the son's business so it is pretty late. My darling does his books at home so we got a five pooter license at the time. Office works fine on our old tower so unless it starts to misbehave I will take your advice and leave W7 on.

Motherboard bus speed is motherboard bus speed is motherboard bus speed. Popping in a usb3 card isn't going to increase it. You'll hit the same bottleneck moving data on and off the card.

Is USB3 fster than SATA? I did not know that.

fossil · « **Reply #160 on:** August 22, 2015, 12:30:45 PM »

I think the built-in roll-back - possibility is what makes the update slow. As far as I understand the process a clean new Win10 is downloaded and installed. The old Win7 (8, 8.1) installation then is sort of isolated, but it is there (and consumed about 40 gb on my machine). Then the programs either are "untied" from the old installation or copied and connected to Win10. After 30 days the old installation is erased automatically. I did this after 20 minutes or so.

As I wrote in a prior post the eSATA works MUCH better than with Win7. For the first time the 2Tb drive is an easy-to-use plug-and-play - device.

ITSec · « **Reply #161 on:** August 22, 2015, 06:11:07 PM »

Quote from: rodekyll on August 22, 2015, 11:03:27 AM

Motherboard bus speed is motherboard bus speed is motherboard bus speed. Popping in a usb3 card isn't going to increase it. You'll hit the same bottleneck moving data on and off the card.

Is USB3 fster than SATA? I did not know that.

I suspect what Muzz was pointing out is that his motherboard based SATA controller is 1st Gen, not SATA II or III - and any SSD is faster than SATA I. A card-based controller with SATA II or III and USB 3.0 ports would get the best out of what he's got, but of course, the motherboard clock speed and CPU are what they are.

USB 3.0 theoretical top speed is 5 gbps; SATA I is 1.5, SATA II is 3, and SATA III is 6. So much depends on the chipset and device at the end of the cable, though, that USB 3 is a good match for either of the two newer SATA standards.

rodekyll · « **Reply #162 on:** August 22, 2015, 07:38:12 PM »

That's news I can use.

Muzz · « **Reply #163 on:** August 22, 2015, 07:59:37 PM »

ITsec is correct in his assessment RK. It is in fact SataII, but is not III being a fairly old MB. The SSD will only ever go 1/2 speed.

The USSB3 was simply to lessen the time for the 1TB backup external HD to do it's thing. Takes forever at the moment.

Was even looking at PCIE2 SSB's to remove the SATA bottleneck but they are way more expensive. Yes, I know I can just transfer the SSB over when I update, but against that is waiting as the price for storage comes down. May be worth while waiting and getting a 1TB SSD and use the existing hard drive as backup. For most of our life I have used the AMD chips, as they give good value for money, go great on photo crunching and we do not do gaming. Am waiting for the Zen chip to be released and see how that goes. It has AM4 architecture, which none of them use at this stage.

Although I thought my better half and myself had agreed to wait until W10 had proved itself, while I was out she decided to download it and install it anyway. Seems like she has tried four times and the install has failed four times. It is definitely not a pirate version of windows, so we may have to check that out. Interesting comment that eSATA works way better on 10 than 7.

Thanks for all the info; all very helpful.

Tom · « **Reply #164 on:** August 23, 2015, 04:04:53 PM »

Thanks. I appreciate your reviews.

charlie b · « **Reply #165 on:** August 23, 2015, 04:54:40 PM »

Seems that there are several computer brands/types/combinations out there that will not upgrade yet. The wife could not get her newer ASUS laptop to upgrade either.

So, we are 1 for 3.

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #166 on:** August 23, 2015, 08:22:53 PM »

After 2 weeks with Win 10 on. a tablet, this is my $.02.

I have a Surface tablet, a HP laptop, a home grown desktop, and I use a dozen PCs at work. At work I have one PC with Win 8.1, three with Win 7, and the rest are older antiques. I'm not one to experiment at work when there is nothing to gain, so they are untouched as yet, if ever. (these are mostly stand alone equipment controllers)

My home Surface tablet, laptop, and desktop have Win 8.1. Win 8.1 worked well on the tablet. On the non-touch screen devices, it is a learning curve, but works well once you learn it.

I upgraded the tablet to Win 10, even though Win 8.1 is/was the most friendly on it. My tablet tends to be a spare that I can experiment on. I did the Win 10 upgrade and generally all was well. But the backup copy of win 8.1 eat a lot of my SSD, and I had a few odd things going on. So I reformatted the drive and reinstalled win 8, then the 8.1, then 10 upgrades. I have a lot of free space on the drive now. All works well.
The pros of win 10, it boots fast, the interface is a bit more like win 7 and less reliant on the touch screen. All of my apps work. My WiFi would always take a long time to first connect, now it is quick. Boot up is quick. The new Edge browser is fast, so I won't be needing Chrome any more. Battery life is equal to what it was previously. It has a tablet mode and non-tablet mode, which can auto-switch when I remove the keyboard.
The cons of win 10, it has less touch functionality. Some of the built in apps, email and calendar notably, still need some polishing. I needed to tweak some drivers for the tablet so the tablet would stay in 'sleep' mode.

I will be upgrading my laptop when I get a chance. Or maybe the desktop. Lightning hit my weather station a few days back and passed into the desktop and took it out, so maybe I'll update when I repair that.

My sister in law contacted me and asked me if she should upgrade win 7 machine. I told her no, since she would need the email app, and I'm 600 miles away and don't want to get into that. Plus with no touch screen, there is little to be gained for her.

Basically, unless you want to play around with it, wait another month or two for the things like the mail app and driver glitches to be cleaned up. But if you like to play with this stuff, go for it, it works. If you can possibly reformat your disk and start clean, even better, IMHO.

Tom · « **Reply #167 on:** August 26, 2015, 09:16:50 PM »

This came to me in an email. I haven't had a chance to look at because I'm at work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLiozMpqV80

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #168 on:** August 26, 2015, 10:18:56 PM »

jumpmaster · « **Reply #169 on:** August 26, 2015, 11:06:58 PM »

As a Windows 7 user who never tried Windows 8, I'm not particularly impressed with it. I only read a representative sample of the other responses (6 pages & counting!), & keeping in mind that I'm far from a computer hero/nerd, but so far the primary pros are that it does seem to boot up quicker & the visuals are a bit nicer than Windows 7. On the cons, the irritating advertising pop-ups are more numerous than ever, by at least a factor of 2 if not more. It freezes my computer while doing mysterious stuff in the background more than Windows 7 did. As some others have noted, some features useful to me that were easy to find with 1 or 2 clicks in Windows 7 are now buried in lower levels intuitive only to technical users, not daily drivers like myself - control panel and printer information/status/controls come to mind first. It took me 30 minutes to find out why my printer wasn't printing; it would have taken me 2 minutes or less with Windows 7.

I now wish I had waited until after the first of next year to upgrade (free), but I've done it now & will try to live with it for at least awhile.

rodekyll · « **Reply #170 on:** August 26, 2015, 11:28:09 PM »

Some of the differences are learning curve issues. As long as the functionality is there and can be used, I can probably learn it -- even if I don't learn to love it. I don't think the move from 7 - 10 would be as difficult as from 8 - 10.

I just got a half-dozen desktops and ten 'tablet'-laptops and some workgroup-level printers in as functional surplus. They're running opsys from XP to 7/vista, and all have been force-retired due to W10 -- the company doesn't want to spoon-feed the upgrade just to see if they're 100% compliant.

The obligation I made was to security erase the hard drives (and get them the hell out of the server room). Beyond that their disposal/refurbishment is up to me. I've got enough stuff here to do some serious experimenting if I get bored with everything else. The bad news is that none came with system disks or recovery partitions. I have to scramble to find Toshiba, Fujitsu, and acer w7 disks before I can tinker with them. I've sent off 1,000 boxtops and 2900 green stamps to Toshiba for the Portege factory disks. The Toshibas are 'downgrade-loaded" with XP, licensed for 7, and had Vista disks (useless) included. I'll start there and we'll see what happens.

ITSec · « **Reply #171 on:** August 27, 2015, 12:46:25 PM »

Quote from: rodekyll on August 26, 2015, 11:28:09 PM

Some of the differences are learning curve issues. As long as the functionality is there and can be used, I can probably learn it -- even if I don't learn to love it. I don't think the move from 7 - 10 would be as difficult as from 8 - 10.

I just got a half-dozen desktops and ten 'tablet'-laptops and some workgroup-level printers in as functional surplus. They're running opsys from XP to 7/vista, and all have been force-retired due to W10 -- the company doesn't want to spoon-feed the upgrade just to see if they're 100% compliant.

The obligation I made was to security erase the hard drives (and get them the hell out of the server room). Beyond that their disposal/refurbishment is up to me. I've got enough stuff here to do some serious experimenting if I get bored with everything else. The bad news is that none came with system disks or recovery partitions. I have to scramble to find Toshiba, Fujitsu, and acer w7 disks before I can tinker with them. I've sent off 1,000 boxtops and 2900 green stamps to Toshiba for the Portege factory disks. The Toshibas are 'downgrade-loaded" with XP, licensed for 7, and had Vista disks (useless) included. I'll start there and we'll see what happens.

If you have license keys, I have master ISO copies for Win7 (and other versions) in various flavors that I can provide you. Drivers are there for most stuff up through late production, but proprietary stuff you'll need to download. Let me know.

ITSec · « **Reply #172 on:** August 27, 2015, 12:48:18 PM »

Quote from: jumpmaster on August 26, 2015, 11:06:58 PM

As some others have noted, some features useful to me that were easy to find with 1 or 2 clicks in Windows 7 are now buried in lower levels intuitive only to technical users, not daily drivers like myself - control panel and printer information/status/controls come to mind first. It took me 30 minutes to find out why my printer wasn't printing; it would have taken me 2 minutes or less with Windows 7.

I now wish I had waited until after the first of next year to upgrade (free), but I've done it now & will try to live with it for at least awhile.

One thing not mentioned much is that right-clicking on the Win10 START button brings up a pretty full menu of functions including Control Panel and others I use a lot.

Tom · « **Reply #173 on:** August 27, 2015, 02:15:42 PM »

Quote from: Wayne Orwig on August 26, 2015, 10:18:56 PM

It's what I thought.

Tom · « **Reply #174 on:** August 27, 2015, 02:21:58 PM »

Soooooooo.......it seems that I'm getting the thumbs up

from most of the computer techies on the forum to upgrade to Windows 10. Thanks so far. I'm following the discussion and haven't made the upgrade yet. I have 8.1 on an ASUS laptop.

ITSec · « **Reply #175 on:** August 27, 2015, 03:30:24 PM »

Quote from: Tom on August 27, 2015, 02:21:58 PM

Soooooooo.......it seems that I'm getting the thumbs up from most of the computer techies on the forum to upgrade to Windows 10. Thanks so far. I'm following the discussion and haven't made the upgrade yet. I have 8.1 on an ASUS laptop.

I'd say from 8.1, it's worthwhile. However, I would definitely recommend reading the various linked pages mentioned, particularly the one at Slate, so you can head off the privacy problems before they start. Read them before upgrading, and maybe keep a printed copy to refer to while you perform the upgrade, and you'll save a lot of headaches and worry later...

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.single.html

jumpmaster · « **Reply #176 on:** August 27, 2015, 04:20:10 PM »

Quote from: ITSec on August 27, 2015, 03:30:24 PM

I'd say from 8.1, it's worthwhile. However, I would definitely recommend reading the various linked pages mentioned, particularly the one at Slate, so you can head off the privacy problems before they start. Read them before upgrading, and maybe keep a printed copy to refer to while you perform the upgrade, and you'll save a lot of headaches and worry later...

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.single.html

My take is that, for "techies" and those who just must be on the leading edge, it is a worthwhile update from 8.1 and a debatable worthwhile update from 7. For us normal non-technophiles (Luddites) it is a highly questionable update. If I weren't concerned with future obsolescence of Windows 7, with disappearing support for it from Microsoft & growing incompatibility with other programs that piggyback on Windows products, I'd go back to Windows 7 in a heartbeat. My choice is to stick with 10 now & get used to its unique set of issues & irritations, or go back to 7 and deal with the obsolescence/support issues in a year or 2. Of course, in a year or 3 we'll have Windows 11 or 12 coming out with a whole new set of issues, so......

ITSec · « **Reply #177 on:** August 27, 2015, 04:36:30 PM »

Quote from: jumpmaster on August 27, 2015, 04:20:10 PM

Of course, in a year or 3 we'll have Windows 11 or 12 coming out with a whole new set of issues, so......

Actually, the vision that Microsoft has expressed is that Windows 10 is the last 'version' of Windows. Future upgrades will come the same way they do in Android, as almost unseen, gradual, piece-by-piece replacement processes. There may be some declared milestones, but Windows is going to become some kind of amorphous 'current state' operating system. I'm not sure how happy those who have to provide support are going to be when they can't have confidence in the underlying foundation of what they are trying to deliver might be, but that's the declared intention of Microsoft. That's the major underlying driver for Microsoft to get everyone onto Win10, and to force the shift of update control into their hands rather than the user's; it's the only way this model works.

jumpmaster · « **Reply #178 on:** August 27, 2015, 05:48:58 PM »

Quote from: ITSec on August 27, 2015, 04:36:30 PM

Actually, the vision that Microsoft has expressed is that Windows 10 is the last 'version' of Windows. Future upgrades will come the same way they do in Android, as almost unseen, gradual, piece-by-piece replacement processes. There may be some declared milestones, but Windows is going to become some kind of amorphous 'current state' operating system. I'm not sure how happy those who have to provide support are going to be when they can't have confidence in the underlying foundation of what they are trying to deliver might be, but that's the declared intention of Microsoft. That's the major underlying driver for Microsoft to get everyone onto Win10, and to force the shift of update control into their hands rather than the user's; it's the only way this model works.

Well, as the old saying goes, "If you believe that then I've got some oceanfront property in South Dakota you might be interested in." It may come to be true, but I wouldn't base my current decisions on that "vision" from Microsoft. :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu

rodekyll · « **Reply #179 on:** August 27, 2015, 05:53:41 PM »

Then you should review the history of the industry. So far MS has 'prevailed' in every aspect of their vision/agenda. Not saying it is good or bad -- just that it is.

News:

Author Topic: Anyone using Windows 10? (Read 72637 times)

stormshearon

Kentktk

oldbike54