Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: johnr on August 13, 2015, 10:39:30 PM
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... is brought to our attention rather well with this image I thought.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/oncoming.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/oncoming.jpg.html)
Certainly on our roads this can and does occur way too easily, often with unfortunate results.
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Almost eerie , but effective .
Dusty
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True and sometimes it's very difficult to force yourself to stay in the outside 1/3rd of the lane.
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True and sometimes it's very difficult to force yourself to stay in the outside 1/3rd of the lane.
Especially in an off camber turn when all the gravel settles at the outside.
Still a good pic though. Thanks for posting it.
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Very effective image.
West coast Scotland, where I am is eerily similar in road size and it also it sadly happens here every year.
Been there seen it done it, bought new underpants
John
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Yes, but you wonder what some busdrivers are thinking when they take blind and sharp turns at relative high speeds on small roads, their noses sweeping all over the place.
No way to hide for the unfortunate uncoming motorcycle, even on his 1/3 of the lane. These guys freak me out.
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Yes, but you wonder what some busdrivers are thinking when they take blind and sharp turns at relative high speeds on small roads, their noses sweeping all over the place.
No way to hide for the unfortunate uncoming motorcycle, even on his 1/3 of the lane. These guys freak me out.
Bus driver blew the apex! :wink:
In some parts of the world, that would be called "vehicular manslaghter" by the bus driver. Unfortunately it happens way to often and ya just gotta be ready to open your line in a blink. If you can't see it coming and react to it, maybe you should consider another form of transportation. We all have been there and survived them many times, if we actually ride our bikes much.
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Good illustration of the difference between racing and riding. When racing, you can aim for the best line, but when you're sharing the road, you have to pick the safe line. Forget what you learned to do on track day.
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Although the bus driver screwed up, the rider is running too hot for the road condition he's riding in. Good reminder though.
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I make the mistake when I don't slow down enough BEFORE the curve.
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From riding the Dragon for six annual week-long 2-stroke meets now, I've become very aware of this problem. Even if your wheels are in the center of the lane, your head can be closer to the centerline than you think. With practice, you can get used to staying in the right side of your lane, even on tight curves at a "spirited" speed. I've seen some of the regulars on that road, that ride it faster than you'd think would be safe, stay way to the right on left curves. That's a skill worth working on.
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Says allot for sure.
But you have to remember to keep looking thru the curve even on the outside part of the lane and not stare at the edge 'cause you go where you look!
mike
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Yes, but you wonder what some busdrivers are thinking when they take blind and sharp turns at relative high speeds on small roads, their noses sweeping all over the place.
No way to hide for the unfortunate uncoming motorcycle, even on his 1/3 of the lane. These guys freak me out.
Having worked as a bus driver for 11+ years I can answer that in part.
A bus is a single part vehicle often more than 40 feet in length. They have no hinge in the middle (excepting some mighty long town buses which are not common anyway)
On a tight bend it is simply impossible to get round with the whole bus in the lane. They absolutely must swing wide. Were the driver to try and keep the front of the bus in the lane somewhere about center of the vehicle it would go off road and strike anything (bank, pole etc) that is there.
Also, a bus when it turns will slide its rear wheels sideways in the direction of the turn. The company I worked for actually took the trouble to measure this rear wheel slide on one of its buses. In a normal 90 degree turn in town the rear wheels slid sideways in the direction of turn a whole 6 feet!
Obviously allowance must be made for this too. (Unless the driver plans to wreck)
A side issue worth mentioning while we are discussing this is the amount of bus that over hangs the rear wheels. Four buses of the same model that were owned by the company I worked for had an overhang of 6 meters! (nearly 20 feet)
Imagine how far that 20 feet will swing out in a turn. A few of the drivers in my company had accidents because of that.
We need to know to keep clear, because there is absolutely nothing the bus driver can do about it.
In fact, the bus in the image is exactly where he should be for that bend. Look at where his wheels are, and bear in mind that everything aft of the front wheels is moving toward the bank.
You are right though in being freeked out by large heavy vehicles. So you should be. A disproportionate number of incidents where riders come to serious grief involve heavy vehicles. I like to stay well away from the things when I'm riding.
A couple of popular tourist spots down this way are Queenstown and Milford Sound. Every day between 14 and 20 buses make the journey from Queenstown to Milford and back. The road is in places twisty and steep, and nearer to Milford in places could barely be called two lane. They are pushed for time to accomplish this within legal time limits and have to deal with passengers that often seem reluctant to actually board the bus after a stop.
I haven't been up to Milford for some years but were I to take the bike up there I would consciously chose to travel the stretch between TeAnau and Milford at times that the buses don't. ( I would also carry some extra gas)
The image was not made in NZ (driving on the wrong side) I don't know where it came from, but I like it. It could just as easily been a car swinging wide.
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Especially in an off camber turn when all the gravel settles at the outside.
Still a good pic though. Thanks for posting it.
+1
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This picture is a good warning to me...
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About the time a fella looks at this amazingly effective graphic and cries foul relative to having the time to correct due to a lumbering bus's speed - contemplate the mad-cap speeds of buses overseas or the horrendous driving of RVs here in the states.
Outstanding wake-up call JohnR.
Todd.
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I once made a video riding down Highway 101 in Oregon with a helmet cam. When viewing it later it was frightening to see how close my head was to oncoming cars in the other lane. I began wondering just when I might get clipped by one with west coast mirrors that stick out more than a foot. I now stay further to the right on curves.
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Up here the tour busses know they're unwieldy and use it as a weapon. I've been tooling along in a line of traffic and had them simply insert themselves into cross traffic from a side road with no pretense of waiting for a gap in traffic. Last week outside of Anchorage one rear-ended a parked truck so hard the truck went airborne and disintegrated. Seven vehicles involved total and one fatality. Locally the busses creep along at 15mph along the highway while the tour guide holds a microphone in one hand and gestures with the other as the bus goes down the street. Often there's a police cruiser in the queue behind them. I asked one day why they're allowed to go 15 in a 45 holding up a long line of traffic and was told "45 is the MAX speed. There's no rule saying it's the ONLY speed."
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RK, be glad you don't drive much in Manhattan. I once had a NYC taxi driver make a left turn while he was in the middle lane and I was in the left lane, exactly next to him. He just turned and assumed I'd hit the brakes, and he was right that time.
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Good illustration of the difference between racing and riding. When racing, you can aim for the best line, but when you're sharing the road, you have to pick the safe line. Forget what you learned to do on track day.
The fastest street riders are not the best riders. Only the ones will to take on the risk.
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Racing or not, that's a terrible line. This guy needs to work on late-apexing. Great visual though.
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Guilty, and realized it as I was doing it. Need to train myself to give myself more room.
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When you're riding a bike, right and wrong doesn't matter too much. Life and death does.
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I had a long rant typed up and decided better against posting it.
Let's just use this pic as a good reminder to watch out for ourselves out there, cause you never know what will be around the next turn.
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Very educational picture. On blind turns you're crazy to be on the inside. Go too far to the outside and you may get into road debris. So slow down, the highway is not a race track. I get my kicks of hammering the throttle after I can see around the turn. Won't win any races doing that but it keeps me safe on narrow twisty roads Bill
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We can ask who is right and who is wrong, but there's no dispute of who loses.
I sometimes get asked by my more squiddly buddies why I don't ride faster when they know my bike can do it - I just tell them
"I ride as fast as I can see..."
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One More Thing:
When entering the inside of a very sharp curve, be wary of sudden sand & gravel kicked into the roadway by fat-ass dualie pickup trucks.
If you got one, you're doing that and don't know it.
'Geezer
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We can ask who is right and who is wrong, but there's no dispute of who loses.
I sometimes get asked by my more squiddly buddies why I don't ride faster when they know my bike can do it - I just tell them
"I ride as fast as I can see..."
I like "squiddly".
I have some of those buddies too, none on Guzzis though. They lose me on the blind turns as I slow down so that if there's a bus swinging across the line or a tree down or "fallen rocks" or a truck stalled in my lane, I can stop or dodge in time. They admit that they wouldn't be able to, but it's part of the excitement of going fast. Heck with that. If I want to lay it over in every turn, I'll go for a track day ....
Lannis
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I live in Amish country, and the hazards here are a bit different. Buggies usually stay on the outside of the curves, and fresh horse manure is pretty dang slippery. Since moving here I have slowed down a lot, because another hazard is assholes in too big of a hurry that pass buggies in curves and other blind sections of road. If you want to ride with me, don't be in a hurry, because I am not.
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A later apex would have helped some, but more traction risks towards the edge of the lane. Cool in, hot out with a good line is probably the best we can do. What a great instructional image!
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There's another reason to keep to the right hand section of your lane when rounding a left turn in the road: increased/earlier visibility - for the rider, the driver coming toward you, and others on or near the roadway (pedestrians, cars entering the roadway, bicyclists, etc.). Keeping to the right in left turns and to the left in right turns gives you a better view up the road to see other vehicles approaching and to see other hazards, such as cars exiting driveways or roads, and gives others more time to see you. These techniques are taught to and practiced by UK motorcycle police riders.
Debris on the road is not to be disregarded, but it is usually, if present, in the area between the right car wheel's track and the shoulder. Bikes keeping to the right need not be further right then the car tire track to gain from this positioning and still avoid most, if not all, debris.
Maximizing visibility for the rider and others is one of the easiest ways we can make ourselves safer when riding. Staying within our personal skill's limits is the other, which includes riding at speeds appropriate for the road and the environment. (Environment here means all the stuff we may/will encounter, such as other vehicles, people, city spaces vs rural, etc.)
And as someone already mentioned, riding on roads is never to be taken as a track day.
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:1:
There's another reason to keep to the right hand section of your lane when rounding a left turn in the road: increased/earlier visibility - for the rider, the driver coming toward you, and others on or near the roadway (pedestrians, cars entering the roadway, bicyclists, etc.). Keeping to the right in left turns and to the left in right turns gives you a better view up the road to see other vehicles approaching and to see other hazards, such as cars exiting driveways or roads, and gives others more time to see you. These techniques are taught to and practiced by UK motorcycle police riders.
Debris on the road is not to be disregarded, but it is usually, if present, in the area between the right car wheel's track and the shoulder. Bikes keeping to the right need not be further right then the car tire track to gain from this positioning and still avoid most, if not all, debris.
Maximizing visibility for the rider and others is one of the easiest ways we can make ourselves safer when riding. Staying within our personal skill's limits is the other, which includes riding at speeds appropriate for the road and the environment. (Environment here means all the stuff we may/will encounter, such as other vehicles, people, city spaces vs rural, etc.)
And as someone already mentioned, riding on roads is never to be taken as a track day.
:1: All good advice. My .02.
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Like John said, do NOT blame the bus driver in that picture. It is in the correct position for the turn. Same with a larger RV or a truck pulling a fifth wheel trailer. They have to swing wide in order for the rear/trailer wheels to stay on the road.
Most roads with tight turns like that have restrictions on vehicle size. Some do not.
The key here is that just because your tires are in your lane, you are not.
And a right hand turn has the same kind of caution. In some areas there is no road shoulder past the 'white stripe' and the hwy dept will put road signs right next to the road. Lean over good with the wheels near the white line and your head will get clipped by a road sign post.
Bottom line is if you want to race go to a track. Blind curves are not where you want to 'hit the apex'.
There used to be a pretty good video of a F1 rider and his crashes. But, instead of clear runoffs and hay bales they photoshopped in curbs, light poles, other vehicles, etc. Seeing his body slide toward an oncoming truck was interesting. Not something you get up and walk away from.
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That picture shows a bike that is just close to the center line, and a bus that has crossed the center line. There is even a huge amount of wasted space on the other side of the bus that is unused.
If you are running an over sized vehicle, on a narrow windy road, YOU are responsible for maintaining your lane or at least warning traffic ahead properly.
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Good illustration of the difference between racing and riding. When racing, you can aim for the best line, but when you're sharing the road, you have to pick the safe line. Forget what you learned to do on track day.
AMEN!
Years ago after viewing a rider safety video I changed my riding technique through corners. I look for the line that will give me the most visibility as to what is in front of me on the road. Has worked well for me as I've 'shared' my lane with more than one oncoming driver drifting across the line in a tight curve.
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That picture shows a bike that is just close to the center line, and a bus that has crossed the center line. There is even a huge amount of wasted space on the other side of the bus that is unused.
If you are running an over sized vehicle, on a narrow windy road, YOU are responsible for maintaining your lane or at least warning traffic ahead properly.
As John mentioned that is not wasted space as completing the turn the rear wheels will be nearly off the road.
Yes, the road is too tight turns for a bus or RV, but, in many areas that is where the bus route exists.
NY 218, Storm King Highway was the passenger bus route for that area. The road in places did not even have center lines.
Yep, bus or truck driver may be at fault if they are on a road illegally. If you are dead will it matter to you?
PS from the angle I see the rider's head is over the centerline too.
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Not just on bends either, as demonstrated in London recently! :shocked:
https://youtu.be/C1aSvoIpVss (https://youtu.be/C1aSvoIpVss)
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This is really great!
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This picture is a good warning to me...
:1:
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I find this picture purports what it is..........hypothe tical and non-occurring in my real world. In the 1st place that bus in no way can safely make that tight a turn w/o blocking the oncoming lane doing so. When I go into a corner like that I start from the outside of the lane to give me as much time as I can to see if anyone is coming anywhere near my lane to obstruct my line thru it. I live to ride thru corners exactly like this and have done it every chance I can for over 50 years with rarely having anything close to this fake pic happening. I wouldn't ride MCs if I thought these kinds of accidents were probable.
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Yep, bus or truck driver may be at fault if they are on a road illegally. If you are dead will it matter to you?
I agree, dead right is still dead. I was just respond to a few ' the bus was in the right' thinking comments. No, the bus is NOT right, yes we as motorcyclists need to be aware that they ARE trying to kill us.
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tight left handers and hairpins are the worst. Riders are taught to look far ahead, keeping their heads up, and that can bring you over or close to the line unless the rider looks down.
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What an excellent post. An image I will remember hopefully on every blind turn, thank you.
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I agree, dead right is still dead. I was just respond to a few ' the bus was in the right' thinking comments. No, the bus is NOT right, yes we as motorcyclists need to be aware that they ARE trying to kill us.
Wayne, on that road, the bus most certainly isn't in the wrong. There is no other place he could possibly be, accept further out. On a narrow winding road, this is a scenario that is to be expected.
Accidents on this nature occur every year on the roads here (especially the Milford Road) so it is very much a real world scenario.
As some others have pointed out, it is not so much about right or wrong, it's about road craft and survival.
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Wayne, on that road, the bus most certainly isn't in the wrong. There is no other place he could possibly be, accept further out. On a narrow winding road, this is a scenario that is to be expected.
Accidents on this nature occur every year on the roads here (especially the Milford Road) so it is very much a real world scenario.
As some others have pointed out, it is not so much about right or wrong, it's about road craft and survival.
Glad I don't live in a country that would allow busses to try to turn a sharp corner like that to the detriment of oncoming traffic. I know such countries exist, but again glad I don't have to deal with such things. :boozing:
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Most of my experiences of oncoming vehicles crossing the centre line have involved motorbikes - coming into the corners too hot to stay on their side of the road.
Scrares the shit out of me everytime.
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Glad I don't live in a country that would allow busses to try to turn a sharp corner like that to the detriment of oncoming traffic. I know such countries exist, but again glad I don't have to deal with such things. :boozing:
Well Wayne, I can only conclude that you live in an area where the roads tend to be straight and wide.
If there is an area where tourists want to go to then normal commerce dictates that a way will be found to get them there. Milford Sound is one of those places, and there is no practical alternative means of getting there. There is an airport, but it's a particularly dangerous one requiring a special pilots licence and is incapable of handling large planes. The alternative is for the tourist to hire a vehicle and drive himself.
Were they all to do this Milford would be unable to accommodate the parking and the traffic on that road would be horrendous. Many do that though but unfortunately tourists have proved an even greater danger on the road (than buses) to the point where there is a current outcry to do something about it. ( This applies mostly, but not entirely, to Asian tourists who we believe get their licences free with cereal packets)
Any high tourism area is going to have a similar problem. On the Stelvio pass for example there are corners which some of the larger buses can not get around in one go. You see photos and vids of them backing up and taking the corner in two bites.
Were we to stop buses from using twistie roads in this country we may as well close down the entire tourism industry as many roads fall into that category, at least in sections.
Trucks too will have to use such on many occasions as often there is no other practical way to move heavy stuff into many areas. (and they can be even bigger)
No, this picture is about understanding that not all other vehicles on the road are motorcycles and that the others that you must share it with have their own and different limitations and abilities.
It's part of our brief to remember this and allow for them.
Good grief, most heavy vehicles can not even see directly behind them (and most car drivers don't even look)
Anyway, having blathered forth about Milford quite a bit here, I thought I'd trow in a few pics of the place, in case anyone is interested. (None of them mine)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/mil1.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/mil1.jpg.html)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/mil3.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/mil3.jpg.html)
Part of the road in (and out again) Much improved since I was last there. Then it was one and a bit lanes of rock and gravel with no barrier fence.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/mil9.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/mil9.jpg.html)
Some more of the road. Same area I think.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/mil4.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/mil4.jpg.html)
There are problems on that road. Some of this nature (and that driver would be in a world of trouble)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/mil6.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/mil6.jpg.html)
And some of this nature at certain times of year.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/mil7.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/mil7.jpg.html)
People can get there this way, but I think the cruise ships just come in and straight back out. (Surprised they are allowed in there at all.)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/mil5.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/mil5.jpg.html)
If you stop at the highest point (just before going into the tunnel) you might be lucky enough to meet one of these guys. He is a Kea (key-a), a native parrot. He is inquisitive and friendly, enjoys posing for photos and ripping bits off cars. He is the most intelligent bird I have ever met and very endangered. There are only about 600 left in the world. (DON'T feed him)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/mil8.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/mil8.jpg.html)
Hmmmm. Once Guzz is back on the road I can see a trip up there in the offing.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
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That picture shows a bike that is just close to the center line, and a bus that has crossed the center line. There is even a huge amount of wasted space on the other side of the bus that is unused.
If you are running an over sized vehicle, on a narrow windy road, YOU are responsible for maintaining your lane or at least warning traffic ahead properly.
File this under "Top 10 Complaints Heard in Line Outside Pearly Gates"
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Glad I don't live in a country that would allow busses to try to turn a sharp corner like that to the detriment of oncoming traffic. I know such countries exist, but again glad I don't have to deal with such things. :boozing:
Our own country is the worst offender, and it's getting worse. In the mountains of Virginia these days, the most commonly seen sign reads something like:
"Route 738 Not Suitable for Large Trucks. GPS Routing Not Advised".
The problem is that truck drivers are mindlessly following their GPS routing, and putting their trucks on roads that can't take the truck.
As I was coming from Woolwine VA to Rocky Mount on VA 40 once, I was coming down a hill on my Eldorado toward a sharp downhill left hairpin turn. As I started braking for the turn, a 60-foot truck appeared coming up the hill around the turn. His LEFT front wheel was in MY right-hand ditch - in other words, he was spanning the whole road from ditch to ditch.
Luckily I was on the disk-braked version of the Eldo, and braked as hard as I could as he struggled to get the truck around the turn and back into his lane. I ended up in a shallow ditch on my right as his truck slid by in MY lane.
Happens all the time, and getting worse now that truck drivers, like other people, are letting their stupid-phone substitute for a brain when driving ...
Lannis
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There are some interesting videos online, featuring kea tricks that demonstrate considerable intelligence. If I were a smart and nearly extinct bird, though, I think I would quit ripping up automobiles.
We do have some roads that make sharp curves around cliffs, the narrowest ones I can think of right off hand are in the Hawaiian islands. Our solution, surprised you haven't thought of this, has been to repeal heathen Euclidean geometry in favor of something more faith-based.
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SHIT... Been there, done that.
Spud
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Our own country is the worst offender, and it's getting worse. In the mountains of Virginia these days, the most commonly seen sign reads something like:
"Route 738 Not Suitable for Large Trucks. GPS Routing Not Advised".
The problem is that truck drivers are mindlessly following their GPS routing, and putting their trucks on roads that can't take the truck.
As I was coming from Woolwine VA to Rocky Mount on VA 40 once, I was coming down a hill on my Eldorado toward a sharp downhill left hairpin turn. As I started braking for the turn, a 60-foot truck appeared coming up the hill around the turn. His LEFT front wheel was in MY right-hand ditch - in other words, he was spanning the whole road from ditch to ditch.
Luckily I was on the disk-braked version of the Eldo, and braked as hard as I could as he struggled to get the truck around the turn and back into his lane. I ended up in a shallow ditch on my right as his truck slid by in MY lane.
Happens all the time, and getting worse now that truck drivers, like other people, are letting their stupid-phone substitute for a brain when driving ...
Lannis
Then it's a good thing I don't ride curvy roads on the East coast. Out West these kind of scenarios are rare. If you ride a trike or sidecar rig you are SOL! I've had a few semi truck drivers play chicken with us coming over on our lane on a straight apparently just to see how I react. :evil: then pull over b4 we meet. If a rider is going to be so paranoid maybe they should stick to 4 wheels.
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Then it's a good thing I don't ride curvy roads on the East coast. Out West these kind of scenarios are rare.
These guys may be encountered on narrow curvy roads somewhat to the west of you.
(https://donnc.smugmug.com/Travel/Olympicpeninsula/i-QKzm8hz/0/O/lumbertruck.jpg)
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These guys may be encountered on narrow curvy roads somewhat to the west of you.
(https://donnc.smugmug.com/Travel/Olympicpeninsula/i-QKzm8hz/0/O/lumbertruck.jpg)
Those logging trucks are common in the Pacific Northwest and if you can't match their 65 mph speed on curvy roads you BETTER!! :evil: But the roads they use are made for them and they know the roads like the back of their hand.
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Glad I don't live in a country that would allow busses to try to turn a sharp corner like that to the detriment of oncoming traffic. I know such countries exist, but again glad I don't have to deal with such things. :boozing:
Let's not gloss over the point, though. While the big rigs may not be on those back country twisty roads, I've seen plenty of mini-vans, 5th wheelers, and other camping trailers swing into the on-coming lane on hairpins and s-curves.
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Wayne, on that road, the bus most certainly isn't in the wrong. There is no other place he could possibly be, accept further out. On a narrow winding road, this is a scenario that is to be expected.
So in your country it is OK to drive on the wrong side and hit someone in their lane?
Pretty goofy.
And I though Americans liked to always blame the 'other guy'.
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Deviating slightly from the OP's post - the same mistakes occur on gravel roads, where the rider tends to choose the line with the best footing, which is often on the inner edge of a curve. The problem is, in avoiding the loose stuff on the outer curve, you put yourself directly in the path of on-coming vehicles.
When riding roads with little traffic, it's easy to get lulled into a false sense of security and assume that nothing will be coming. But........that logging truck, that Hydro Quebec pickup, that RV pulling God-knows-what unnecessary crap, will be barreling towards you when you least expect it.
How do I know this............?(hint - guess who took the picture and where I am on the road!)
Nick
(http://www.adamsheritage.info/images/tt/plate35.jpg)
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While the big rigs may not be on those back country twisty roads, I've seen plenty of mini-vans, 5th wheelers, and other camping trailers swing into the on-coming lane on hairpins and s-curves.
Hell, around here it's common for a passenger car or pickup truck to drift to the left over the centerline to prepare for a right turn. They seem to think they're driving a big rig or something. But complaining and/or getting angry doesn't help. The only thing that does is to expect that anything that can go wrong will.
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Glad I don't live in a country that would allow busses to try to turn a sharp corner like that to the detriment of oncoming traffic. I know such countries exist, but again glad I don't have to deal with such things. :boozing:
Wayne, be careful out there because it does happen here, all too frequently. Most of the time it is due to the state highway department not properly posting the road, so, you get a bus or other long vehicle on a road with tight turns. And, as a driver of a longer rig, no you cannot find out how 'curvy' a road is all the time. Yes, I research roads I know I will be on, but, getting lost or missing a turn, or being 'sent' on a detour will put me on a road I know nothing about. If the road is not posted with limitations then I will be that guy trying to fit a 40ft rig on a harpin turn.
PS And yes, when driving a rig like that you are to 'warn' oncoming drivers. In the states I have had a license (4 of them so far) all that means is honking the horn.
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There are some interesting videos online, featuring kea tricks that demonstrate considerable intelligence. If I were a smart and nearly extinct bird, though, I think I would quit ripping up automobiles.
They got into serious trouble when they started attacking sheep. Farmers naturally were somewhat displeased and their answer came in the form of a shotgun. Reduced the Kea numbers considerably. I believe the Keas have for the most part given up on that practice as a result, and now of course he is protected.
We do have some roads that make sharp curves around cliffs, the narrowest ones I can think of right off hand are in the Hawaiian islands. Our solution, surprised you haven't thought of this, has been to repeal heathen Euclidean geometry in favor of something more faith-based.
:grin: :grin:
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Wayne, be careful out there because it does happen here, all too frequently. Most of the time it is due to the state highway department not properly posting the road, so, you get a bus or other long vehicle on a road with tight turns. And, as a driver of a longer rig, no you cannot find out how 'curvy' a road is all the time. Yes, I research roads I know I will be on, but, getting lost or missing a turn, or being 'sent' on a detour will put me on a road I know nothing about. If the road is not posted with limitations then I will be that guy trying to fit a 40ft rig on a harpin turn.
PS And yes, when driving a rig like that you are to 'warn' oncoming drivers. In the states I have had a license (4 of them so far) all that means is honking the horn.
I have to admit southern states are not as concerned as western states, it seems, on warning of possible calamities on their roads. Have never ridden anywhere in the NE and don't plan to. Out West the roads are not so treacherous as some of you describe, tho they are challenging and plentifull in the right areas. :grin:
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Wayne, be careful out there because it does happen here, all too frequently. Most of the time it is due to the state highway department not properly posting the road, so, you get a bus or other long vehicle on a road with tight turns. And, as a driver of a longer rig, no you cannot find out how 'curvy' a road is all the time. Yes, I research roads I know I will be on, but, getting lost or missing a turn, or being 'sent' on a detour will put me on a road I know nothing about. If the road is not posted with limitations then I will be that guy trying to fit a 40ft rig on a harpin turn.
PS And yes, when driving a rig like that you are to 'warn' oncoming drivers. In the states I have had a license (4 of them so far) all that means is honking the horn.
Was behind a rig going from Hendersonville to Bat Cave NC, he couldn't make it and needed to turn around and head back (that was something to watch). Very pleasant truck drivers, just had no idea how twisty the road was going to be.
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And every once in a while a semi gets jack knifed on the Dragon. Usually takes all day to get them towed out.
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At least in Calif. long semis are warned of such roads with signs before the truck get's on them. :smiley: I also believe the truck drivers have map books to let them know what roads are accessible for their load weight/length.
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As far as the Dragon, big trucks are now banned. That doesn't mean one doesn't occasionally ignore the ban, but they're illegal on that road now. I still keep my eyes open for things blocking my path when I'm riding there.
http://tailofthedragon.com/tail-of-the-dragon-info/trucks-on-the-dragon/ (http://tailofthedragon.com/tail-of-the-dragon-info/trucks-on-the-dragon/)
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... is brought to our attention rather well with this image I thought.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/oncoming.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/oncoming.jpg.html)
Certainly on our roads this can and does occur way too easily, often with unfortunate results.
Just in case I'm missing something
What happens if similar bus instead of motorbike ?
Or family sedan ?
We can move over, they can't
I might be wise on a bike, in a car I'd be in big trouble
Ride safe, beware big f@ckers on wrong side of road
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I have to admit southern states are not as concerned as western states, it seems, on warning of possible calamities on their roads. Have never ridden anywhere in the NE and don't plan to. Out West the roads are not so treacherous as some of you describe, tho they are challenging and plentifull in the right areas. :grin:
Even here in NM there are some roads with turns that can be as bad, without any markings. A few of the turns on NM117, NM152, NM35 all have tight corners and are not restricted for larger vehicles. I suspect it has to do with DOT rules about how many tight turns there are within so many miles of roadway.
Bottom line is if you are coming up on a tight, blind corner, be careful, cause the person coming the other way might be in your lane.
Or, there might be rocks, sand, oil, deer, elk, etc in the road as well. :)
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I see riders do that all the time on W. NC mountain roads. Up here, its not buses, but RVs and trucks. Leaving Cruso a couple of weeks ago, a rock truck came around a tight curve about 3 feet in my lane. I was in the middle of my lane, which was still too close. Fortunately, I was able to re-adjust my line over to the right side (which is where - as many have said - gravel lurks).
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As far as the Dragon, big trucks are now banned. That doesn't mean one doesn't occasionally ignore the ban, but they're illegal on that road now. I still keep my eyes open for things blocking my path when I'm riding there.
http://tailofthedragon.com/tail-of-the-dragon-info/trucks-on-the-dragon/ (http://tailofthedragon.com/tail-of-the-dragon-info/trucks-on-the-dragon/)
Some interesting photos on that site Triple Jim. An extreme case for sure, but it makes the point.
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In the early days on my beloved Takaka hill with it's 365 bends and corners, there used to be a couple of blind bends where the road was so narrow that my wheels could be right on the edge of the tar seal and my head was level with the centre line. Meeting a car running wide was shall we say, exciting.
Fortunately, over the years they have widened the road in a lot of places, and in particular, those narrow corners.