Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: canuguzzi on December 15, 2015, 07:03:23 PM
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2013 Norge. Noticed the bike leaning more than usual. Everything tight. The actual sudestand is bending, slowly but surely.
Hopefully the replacement will not bend. It is not the pivot but the long portion itself. No longer using the side stand, it is questionable so center stand only.
Probably the only one bending like that. Never sat in the bike with the side stand down.
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How is that even possible...another defect?
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Yours is not the only one to bend; I ordered a replacement for mine, as the bike was starting to lean over so far that I had trouble getting it off of the side stand when the bike was fully loaded for long trips.
I plan to weld a 3/4" piece of metal to the foot of the new stand in order to reduce the lean angle when the bike is on the stand. Maybe that will reduce the likelihood of this new one bending, too.
Jon
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The side stand on my 1200 Sport (similar to your Norge stand, if not identical) has not bent in 6 seasons of riding, BUT the bike does lean waaay far to the left side, and there's considerable weight placed on it. So much so, it is often difficult to lift off the side stand. I've considered, and think I'll finally follow through on installing a plate shaped like the side stand foot under the foot so that so much bike weight won't be exerted on the side stand. That may be a solution for your bike if/when you install a new stand.
EDIT: sorry, Jon ..... think we posted similar idea simultaneously. Great minds ..... etc, etc! And you're right .... it'll probably require 3/4", or at least a 1/2" shim.
Happy holidays to you and your family!
Bob
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Yes, something to lessen the angle and also something to add strength makes sense. At first I thought I was imagining it. I rarely use the side stand only when I park for a short time which is for coffee breaks and things like that.
I always used a cut piece from a 2*4 under the side stand, it still began to bend more and more. It got to the point that like other comments, it became difficult to push the bike upright. Just looking at it made me cringe so replacement time it is.
I don't know if the side stand is solid or tubing but it isn't strong enough to hold the bike up.
Bike is 15 months old from dealer to me brand new.
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Can't say I have seen any bending to date - 2008, with 100K on the clock and corresponding use of the side stand as the primary resting device (center stand used about 25% of the time). After having this happen on a non-Guzzi bike some years ago, I tend to keep an occasional eye on where the stand is relative to the left footpeg (when up) as a way of empirically assessing its health.
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That does sound defective...no bending on mine since late 2009...and I primarily use the side stand vs. the center stand...
Wonder if the metal used on the newer ones had a defective batch...
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It is bending right where the bend that is part of the design is located. Its getting close to the point where the portion past the bend is close to parallel to the ground when extended and the bike us resting on it. Before the bend, everything seems normal. Dealer verified the bending so I'll see what happens with MG.
With any luck at all they will send Pete's roller upgrade kits to the dealer here to make up for it. :wink:
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Click it. You know you want to: http://www.nhtsa.gov/
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Mine is 2011 Norge. Australia export, so my have different stand. I always use the side stand on day trips. Park up in shed on centre stand. The stand is quite straight, about 50-60 degree angle. Never experienced any bending even when getting on at roadside starts. I have drilled mine at pivot bolt and fitted a split pin for security.
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What happened to the days when we could just lean our bikes against a tree or a wall?
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What happened to the days when we could just lean our bikes against a tree or a wall?
Ah, the good ol' days...
(https://rocker59.smugmug.com/photos/i-JfrMN5S/0/M/i-JfrMN5S-M.jpg)
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Click it. You know you want to: http://www.nhtsa.gov/
Not really, it could be just mine or a few. The bike hasn't fallen over and isn't likely to, its more of a nuisance right now. I don't think they changed the design because they knew it was a bad design or goofed manufacture and sent it out anyway.
Not even close to being the same kind of problem unless they all do this over time and so far there is proof they do not and therefore cannot.
If it did affect all of them I can guarantee that in California, they'd all get replaced free of charge, no question about it.
That isn't what is going on though, just a random and infrequent thing.
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Am I missing something?
If the side stand is bending doesn't a block of wood/thicker metal plate just delay matters?
Surely you (Moto Guzzi :laugh:)need to stiffen the strut itself up - a piece of flat bar welded on edge down its length :undecided:
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tris,
If the lean angle is reduced by a wood block or a piece of metal attached to the foot, there will be less force placed on the stand and it will be less likely to bend.
BTW, when on the side stand, the lean angle on my '09 Norge was always more severe than on any other bike I have owned. The angle had gotten worse over time; it had gotten so bad over the past year that I had used gorilla glue and gorilla tape to secure a 1.5" wooden block to the base of the stand. A few months ago, at a dealership, I compared my stand with that on another Norge; my stand was significantly bent.
Jon
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Did I purchase a lemon motorcycle?
Rode Japs bikes for years, never had issues (defects/ problems) with any of them - zero
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I am surprised by this. The griso side stand would hold a sherman tank. I agree that they over do the lean angle probably to compensate for morons parking side to on an incline.
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The center stand on the Norge was placed by a bunch of drunks. :boozing:
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Don't sit on or lean on the machine when it is on the sidestand.
If you must sit on it use the center stand.
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Click it. You know you want to: http://www.nhtsa.gov/
:thumb:
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Don't sit on or lean on the machine when it is on the sidestand.
If you must sit on it use the center stand.
Never sat on the bike while using the side stand, it bent anyway and with very little use. I'm just getting it replaced. If the replacement is the same as what is on there now, I'll have it strengthened and a block put under it to reduce the lean angle.
Not a huge deal but since all there is otherwise are oil threads and ...
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I had a Ducati ST2 once. As I recall, the owner's manual warned against using the side stand for anything other than brief, temporary stops. It also warned against sitting on the bike when on its side stand. I think the risk was possibly damaging the engine casing.
I was pleased when I got my first Norge that I no longer needed to worry about using the sideband. Apparently now I do.
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Might just be mine Jeff, or very limited to a few. You'll know it when it starts, at least after a little while because it continues to bend to where straightening the bike up isn't easy at all and if you happen to have loaded bags and top case, difficult.
Don't worry too much about it, you'll know if it starts to bend.
I don't leave my Norge on the side stand if at all practical.
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Might just be mine Jeff, or very limited to a few. You'll know it when it starts, at least after a little while because it continues to bend to where straightening the bike up isn't easy at all and if you happen to have loaded bags and top case, difficult.
Don't worry too much about it, you'll know if it starts to bend.
I don't leave my Norge on the side stand if at all practical.
I will keep an eye on it!
Where I live (on a farm), the side stand is imperative. No garage, no concrete or asphalt--only bumpy ground that is covered with dirt, grass, or gravel. I use the center stand only temporarily, and only when I am around the bike, and only when the ground is dry or when I am on a flat patch of gravel. Then it is back to the side stand for safety reasons.
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If you park it in the same place around the house, a couple bags of concrete in a dug out hole gives you a nice place for center stand use.set it an inch below grade and flop a piece of PT plywood on it. Use the fiber reinforced stuff so no rebar or wire needed. Just put the stuff into the hole, add a falling and 3/4 of water, mix with a shovel if you want and walk away. Ready to use in 24 hours.
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Using your brilliant analogy
Whose legs give up first, cheerleader or fat chick?
Leg is not really the problem, just a symptom , new leg might hold up, might not. Something has to give somewhere, even without anything in boxes bike is carrying far more weight than orig stand and chassis designer intended.
Later 1400 was designed with weight intended, if they don't stand up, there is a problem.
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Went to look again and MG did weld a reinforcement strip going down from the pivot area of the stand leg. The bending takes place where that strip of welded material is thinnest.
Maybe the welded material needed to be thicker and longer. New one will get a longer thicker strip welded on and the stand leg extended a bit with a foot welded to the bottom. That should do it.
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Did I purchase a lemon motorcycle?
Rode Japs bikes for years, never had issues (defects/ problems) with any of them - zero
The bending sidestand I mentioned earlier was on a Japanese bike - and was a common problem on earlier V-Stroms, as was the footpeg of the center-stand breaking off. As for other quality issues, ask a GoldWing owner about recalls. All bikes can have problems, and some of them do, in spades. The source is largely immaterial.
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Parked it outside the garage just to take some pics. It had already started to bend before and claim is in for replacement.
Damn if during the afternoon the thing didn't bend more. A 2x4 isn't even enough to keep it safely upright anymore IMO.
Maybe they forgot to heat treat the stand? Scary. On the center stand, the tip of the side stand is now 7.5" from flat concrete.
Never sat on it while on the side stand, always loaded luggage on center stand. Rarely used the side stand, only when option to use center stand was not practical.
Looks to be bending right where the strengthening tab is welded on (closest to frame)
Crap, Batman.
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You're *sure* the bolts are tight, right? :smiley:
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Something is amiss. No way the side stand will bend.
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Something is amiss. No way the side stand will bend.
Yes way, the stand can bend. Mine isn't the only one that has bent, mine just happens to have bent more than some others.
Bolts are tight. Even the dealer verified the stand was bending, hence the warranty claim. As some know, once something like the stand bends, it simply doesn't stop on its own accord and as the lean angle increases so does the leverage on the stand.
No way the stand can bend. Add that to all the other things that get claimed to be impossible.
Bike gets serviced regularly, inspected frequently and is never abused, hasn't been dropped.
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It is possible. I have heard of this on a couple of BMW models back about 10-15 years and seen it myself on a BMW R1200C.
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Post a picture if you get the chance --
I mostly use the centerstand myself, but did notice the bike leans over pretty far when on the sidestand, but I'm thinking this is normal.
I checked to make sure the sidestand and all related bolts are tight -- On mine, there is a bend in the area of the stand you are describing, but I assume this was intentional as the "foot" of the stand is parallel with the ground when using it, and no buckled paint at the bend. Also, I would think the foot wouldn't be flat with the ground if the sidestand was bent as you are describing, but that the "toe" would be sticking up --
Curious to see what condition your stand is in, thanks --
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Ok, I'll retract my statement. I'll instead go with, I find in very unlikely that the stand would bend unless put under far greater stress than it was designed for.
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Post a picture if you get the chance --
I mostly use the centerstand myself, but did notice the bike leans over pretty far when on the sidestand, but I'm thinking this is normal.
I checked to make sure the sidestand and all related bolts are tight -- On mine, there is a bend in the area of the stand you are describing, but I assume this was intentional as the "foot" of the stand is parallel with the ground when using it, and no buckled paint at the bend. Also, I would think the foot wouldn't be flat with the ground if the sidestand was bent as you are describing, but that the "toe" would be sticking up --
Curious to see what condition your stand is in, thanks --
I'll take a pic today or tomorrow and post it.
I'm uber careful with my bikes, had over 35 of them, none ever had a bent side stand.
It been said there had to be far more weight put in it that it was designed for. That would assume MG never makes ammistake in design, never had a faulty weld of a strengthening piece and everyone else that experienced a bent stand was a fault instead.
Just as likely, the welding of the strengthening piece was bad or the stand itself was bent incorrectly in manufacture and had a greater lean from the start than it should have, thus creating an over stress problem.
If someone reports a problem in design or materials manufacture on a Guzzi, the last thing I think is that the person is wrong and MG didn't screw the pooch. There are too many examples of poor design in accessory or other areas of their bike to think otherwise. Otherwise, MG bikes would not need sitting out to the extent they do.
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Maybe your right and it is a defective part. Seems unlikely to me, but the unlikely does happen.
Yet, my biggest reason for pause is your persistent rip on Guzzi QC. As someone who has owned and ridden only Guzzi for 17 years and purchased New a 99 & 07 Im comfortable in stating the newer bikes are better put together, with higher quality parts in almost all areas. Is it the best in the industry, I doubt it, but Guzzi has come a looking way in recent years.
When I read so many of your post ripping a brand I have a lot of respect for it gets a bit tiring. How about making a plan for 16 to notice more offten the joy you get from your Norge, and less complaining as to why an Italian motorcycle manufacturer can't seem to behave like Toyota?
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Make sure you're using unleaded fuel. If it's leaded the bike will weigh a ton more and certainly bend the side stand if the tank is full... :tongue:
(I'm kidding of course!)
Has the side stand been powder-coated or anything that you are aware of? Thinking heat treatment loss here of some sort.
Good luck.
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Maybe your right and it is a defective part. Seems unlikely to me, but the unlikely does happen.
Yet, my biggest reason for pause is your persistent rip on Guzzi QC. As someone who has owned and ridden only Guzzi for 17 years and purchased New a 99 & 07 Im comfortable in stating the newer bikes are better put together, with higher quality parts in almost all areas. Is it the best in the industry, I doubt it, but Guzzi has come a looking way in recent years.
When I read so many of your post ripping a brand I have a lot of respect for it gets a bit tiring. How about making a plan for 16 to notice more offten the joy you get from your Norge, and less complaining as to why an Italian motorcycle manufacturer can't seem to behave like Toyota?
Yeah, only have 200 miles on my Norge and after coming here I wonder if MG's are just sour lemons?
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Yeah, only have 200 miles on my Norge and after coming here I wonder if MG's are just sour lemons?
It only matters if YOUR bike is, or isn't a lemon.
Odds are it isn't. Odds are you will be fine.
The internet forums for all brands are full of complainers. Happy people don't post as much, for some reason.
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It only matters if YOUR bike is, or isn't a lemon.
Odds are it isn't. Odds are you will be fine.
The internet forums for all brands are full of complainers. Happy people don't post as much, for some reason.
I have no major complaints about my 07 Norge and yes I've had a minor few problems. My side stand is rarely used so it could be a bad one but it's not something I'm going to worry about at this stage of ownership.
If this side stand is one of a bad production batch, this is the first time I have read about it but if it's just a one off, what in the world could have happened in the making of this side stand?
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I have no major complaints about my 07 Norge and yes I've had a minor few problems. My side stand is rarely used so it could be a bad one but it's not something I'm going to worry about at this stage of ownership.
If this side stand is one of a bad production batch, this is the first time I have read about it but if it's just a one off, what in the world could have happened in the making of this side stand?
Manufacturing process is my game, but without one in my hand to look at I can't help.
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All you doubting Thomases who " have never heard of such a thing" should do a simple 'net search and you'll find this problem on BMW, Honda, Ducati and advrider forums.
Lots of stories about warranty refusals for this problem too. One guy says a Ducati rep told him the side stands are made of aluminum and only designed to hold the weight of the bike, and not designed for anyone to sit on it while it's on the sidestand.
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Maybe your right and it is a defective part. Seems unlikely to me, but the unlikely does happen.
Yet, my biggest reason for pause is your persistent rip on Guzzi QC. As someone who has owned and ridden only Guzzi for 17 years and purchased New a 99 & 07 Im comfortable in stating the newer bikes are better put together, with higher quality parts in almost all areas. Is it the best in the industry, I doubt it, but Guzzi has come a looking way in recent years.
When I read so many of your post ripping a brand I have a lot of respect for it gets a bit tiring. How about making a plan for 16 to notice more offten the joy you get from your Norge, and less complaining as to why an Italian motorcycle manufacturer can't seem to behave like Toyota?
I have often posted about the virtues of the Norge and taken to task those that said they wouldn't buy a post flat tappet model for fear if that problem along with oil leaks.
The fact of the matter is that MG quality assurance stinks, why else are we fixing things like loose fasteners (luckily not me but nearly everyone else), questionable wiring (status interrupts, really?) Windscreen adjusters failing, inadequate bearing lubrication, dipsticks on models that are guesstimates, yes, flat tappet fiascos, trashy spark plug caps and wires put so they rest on cylinder heads, deforming fuel tanks, crappy ECU maps, fuel gauges that arent reliable to the point many just give up and so on.
Not bad if you buy used bikes that cost a few grand and wrenching is the idea of a good time. Not when you pay more than 11 grand plus for a brand new bike that is supposed to be top of the line.
Who can really look at those sorting issues as they are called and then say quality control is even close to #1 ? Let's be honest with each other, it is so accepted that QA is not even a given, it gets joked about.
At first I thought I was the lucky one, that the seal leaks, the problems others reported were just them, my Norge was a trooper that I could ride anywhere anytime so long as I made sure it got regular maintenance.
I'm finding out that instead, it is more likely that all the problems come around anyway and sweeping it under the proverbial carpet does nothing except perpetuate things under the guise of ease of maintenance.
The bending stand is a fact, verified by a dealer who knows Moto Guzzi and is well respected.
If you want to say my bike must have been subjected to far more than design loads when you haven't seen it, how does that work? My Norge never gets close to max weight, I'm maybe 165 after a big dinner and check every fastener I can touch, check tire pressures, steering function, suspension function, brakes, lights, horn, battery charge, the swing arm for drips, the oil pan for leaks, all the hoses for the oil cooler, plug wires each and every time I ride. If something isn't right, it gets made right before it goes out or goes straight to the dealer to be made right if I don't want to mess with it.
Riding the Norge is a great experience but as far as confidence it would go to NY and back without some more than minor thing? No way.
If more people said something, maybe, just maybe MG would pay attention but woe be the person who doesn't just sort it out. What gets better if no one says anything?
I posted about the bending stand because it is happening, has been verified by a dealer and gets worse while waiting tobhear about the warranty claim. Nonone is making this up and the bike isn't now and never has been subjected to any load other than an unladen bike with maybe a full tank of fuel.
The stand is crap. Maybe just this one but that isn't likely. Go look at one, really look. Its a second design because prior designs bent too. Same with the center stand, they used to bend too , was that due to overloading? It was a crappy stand then too.
I like riding the Norge, say so often, right here on WG and anyone that asks.
MG quality control is crap and I will say that too, here and if someone asks, tel them the issues and let them decide.
This was about an bending side stand, nothing else. What is the problem with posting about it? Nothing except you said it couldn't happen, then retracted the statement but then said it had to be some fault other than quality. OK, then what, you meaning was clear.
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.........One guy says a Ducati rep told him the side stands are made of aluminum and only designed to hold the weight of the bike, and not designed for anyone to sit on it while it's on the sidestand.
I think that's pretty standard. The motorcycle handbooks that I've read have all said something similar, regardless of brand. In my Stelvio handbook it also says the following:
"The (side)stand should not be used to support the weight of rider and passenger"
Not saying that is what happened here though!
The angle of modern bikes when on the side stands is actually quite steep, so most of the weight stays on the wheels. Hard to imagine what would cause one to bend.
John
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Does the Norge have both US and Euro sidestand options? On the V7, the standard Euro stand is short and straight. The US version is long and has a bend in it. If that's the case with the Norge as well, then I'd swap to the Euro version.
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All you doubting Thomases who " have never heard of such a thing" should do a simple 'net search and you'll find this problem on BMW, Honda, Ducati and advrider forums.
I don't doubt that NP is telling the truth and I'm sure there are multiple stories for those brands with bending side stands. Just out of curiosity I plugged into multiple search engines: "moto guzzi norge side stand bending" and only this thread pops up. Of course that isn't the final word as there easily could be hundreds of Norge owner's across the world who have had this problem.
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I look at pics of the USA stand vs the Euro stand for these bikes, and can see how the USA stand would have more load placed on it, vs the 'stumpy', almost BMW like stand on the Euro bikes. My 1200 Sport hasn't bent, but could imagine how that could happen, simply from the weight of the bike on the very long side stand that sticks way out from the bike.
Brings up another question ........ what was it about USA bikes that required the extra long stand with a few more kinks in it? I look at it and think the USA stand just might keep my bike from falling, IF I parked on soft asphalt, and the side stand began sinking into it. Because the flat area of tubing before the stand foot just might rest on the asphalt and keep the stand from continuing to sink. But is that why? Was Guzzi that thoughtful about where I might have to park?
I've owned a few Beemers with nearly-vertical side stands and tiny feet that would be more than happy to sink into hot asphalt and then drop the bike on its side. I remember running from a restaurant when a customer asked who was riding the Beemer. "Me." "Well, your helmet is on the ground, and I think the bike is about to fall over!"
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I remember running from a restaurant when a customer asked who was riding the Beemer. "Me." "Well, your helmet is on the ground, and I think the bike is about to fall over!"
Yeah, BTDT with my R100RT. Did about $800 worth of damage. :smiley:
At first I thought I was the lucky one, that the seal leaks, the problems others reported were just them, my Norge was a trooper that I could ride anywhere anytime so long as I made sure it got regular maintenance.
Personally, I'd say you drew the short straw. My 07 (other than the recall on the low beam headlight wiring which the dealer sent me the stuff and I fixed it myself) was assembled *very well* and was trouble free while I had it. I posted at the time at how far Guzzi had come with QC since my Centauro. I also posted at the time that the *only* reason they assembled the Centauro was to make sure that you got all the parts. :evil: :smiley:
NP, you would *not* have liked it. :smiley:
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Good luck Norgepilot, your going to need a whole lot of it if you stay with this brand.
It's clear to me that you will not, and likely can not be made a happy campier while owning a Moto Guzzi.
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I don't know about side stands, but if I'm gonna have a flat tappet failure I prefer to have the Italian variety vs. Japazuki. :grin:
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Good luck Norgepilot, your going to need a whole lot of it if you stay with this brand.
It's clear to me that you will not, and likely can not be made a happy campier while owning a Moto Guzzi.
Think he needs a 'wing'. :popcorn:
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Sure he is a little picky, but all in all I think Norge Pilot is an OK dude. Really seems to love his bike, & wants to see things improve for the brand.
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One guy says a Ducati rep told him the side stands are made of aluminum and only designed to hold the weight of the bike, and not designed for anyone to sit on it while it's on the sidestand.
That is true. Has been for decades.
Sidestand on Guzzi's Daytona / Sport 1100 / V11 Sport is the same way.
But the bikes are designed to be ridden, not lounged on, so I completely understand.
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Sure he is a little picky, but all in all I think Norge Pilot is an OK dude. Really seems to love his bike, & wants to see things improve for the brand.
Oh, I think so, too. To me, though, it's much ado about nothing. I'd just take it off, post a couple of pix of the fix, put it back on, and forget it. <shrug>
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I have a side stand off my Breva, it's the same as used on Norge. I replaced the stock us with the Euro stand. If someone wants it I'll let go for cheap.
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I have a side stand off my Breva, it's the same as used on Norge. I replaced the stock us with the Euro stand. If someone wants it I'll let go for cheap.
Are you offering a warranty on that?
:evil:
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Warranties are only as good as the company or in this case the punk ass offering it! :laugh: But I think it's a good as new!
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Here are two pics I took. Ground is flat, as flat as you'll find most places. I pulled the bike out because it is going out, sun is shining, air is crisp and cars are staying home for some reason.
First pic has 1 2x4 blocks under the stand.
Second pic has a 1/4" thick piece of ABS under the stand.
The lean is so great that where the bike with loaded luggage, it would be with great difficulty getting it upright.
Never sat on the bike with it on the side stand
No one else did either.
Rarely use the side stand and usually if I must, a 2x3 block goes under the stand tip. Now of course, 2 2x4 blocks.
Bike has not been overloaded, ever.
This is now worse than it was just 2 weeks or so ago and the side stand was only used to park it at the dealer for service. It was not left alone, it went from parked to shop and when it came back out, I was there.
Dealer verified stand was bending, they see the bike for regular service.
At times I have used a flat rock under the side stand (maybe thrice) because I forgot the 2x4.
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/IMG_20151231_114948_zpsj7t79l74.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/NorgePilot/media/IMG_20151231_114948_zpsj7t79l74.jpg.html)
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/IMG_20151231_115342_zpssm08ku72.jpg) (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/NorgePilot/media/IMG_20151231_115342_zpssm08ku72.jpg.html)
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You're *sure* the bolts are tight, right? :smiley:
Absolutely. I checked them, dealer checked them, I checked them before I started the thread, I checked them before I took the pictures.
I've checked them before long rides (I also check all other bolts I can touch)
There is no wobble when the stand is up. It swings out smoothly.
Norge has never been dropped or been hit or hit anything.
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When the replacement stand comes in I will ask if I can keep the old stand or at least have it long enough to take comparison pictures and measurements.
Then it will be apparent where the bending took place. I have no reference right now to do a comparison.
No one else within 15,000 miles has a Norge for comparison. :wink:
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Thanks for the pics -- going to use them as comparison vs my stand. I agree yours is bent, going to be watching mine closely --
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Thanks for the pics -- going to use them as comparison vs my stand. I agree yours is bent, going to be watching mine closely --
I put this under things happen. I wasn't trying to make a big deal of this until I'm told it didn't happen, can't happen or that the reason must be over stressing the stand.
They either replace the stand or I get a new one, either way, that should solve the problem and I am ok with that.
Will I pay more attention to the stand henceforth? Of course and it would be wise for other to do the same. Just check it once in a while.
Guaranteed 100%, were the Norge to fall over there would be howls about why no one checked the stand. Well I did and this is what I found.
If it helps someone else to avoid a problem, if you read my OP, that was the intent.
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I think I would avoid using that stand until it's replaced!
John
Edit: is it possible that your bike was sometime strapped down on a trailer with ratchet straps? Maybe somebody overdid the tightening?
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Norge Pilot,
Your pics look familiar; I have the same problem with my '09 Norge; same type of stand. A dealership verified that the stand was bent, so I ordered a new stand, which cost about $85. I still have the bent stand on the bike with a 1 1/2" piece of wood fastened to the foot of the stand with gorilla glue and gorilla tape (yes, it looks pretty damn silly). My brother-in-law, a welder, has my new stand; will weld a 1" piece of metal to the foot of it to reduce the stress placed on the stand, so the same problem won't recur with the new one. After he mails the modified new stand to me, I will post pics of it alongside the old stand on this thread.
Unlike you, over the years I have used the side stand extensively, including when the bike is fully loaded. Without help, I have trouble getting the loaded bike on the center stand. The extensive lean of all Norges on USA side stands obviously puts much stress on the stand. However, the stand looks so substantial, that I wouldn't have imagined that it could be bent.
Jon
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I think I would avoid using that stand until it's replaced!
John
Edit: is it possible that your bike was sometime strapped down on a trailer with ratchet straps? Maybe somebody overdid the tightening?
Bike was brand new and not bent when I bought it. It's never been transported other than under it's own power.
I too wonder how such a substantial looking stand could bend. Maybe someone else would know better but if the welding of the metal tab along the stand to strengthen it at the curve were somehow done incorrectly when it was made, could it have been weakened?
What really caught my attention was that it has bent more after the last dealer visit. When the bike got home, I pulled in the garage as usual and swing out the side stand. There is a 2x4 block in place already. Left foot goes down first and I swing off doing the ankle grab on the right leg and pivot away from the bike. Stand goes up and then I put it on the center stand. Its after that that it continued to bend more so I can only think once it bent, it continued and after a certain angle bends faster.
Darn perplexing since I'll replace a bolt or screw if it gets even slightly buggered, won't reuse a crush washer and when making up an accessory will not drill into or cut any original part on the bike. When the bike goes in for service, I check everything before and after to the extend I'm able.
I had bikes with spindly thin side stands and the kind with a foot so narrow they'd push through concrete, something I always am careful about using.
Ah well, I'll put a thicker foot on the replacement when it arrives and see how it goes.
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What really caught my attention was that it has bent more after the last dealer visit.
:undecided: Hmmm.
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:undecided: Hmmm.
Only from a time frame perspective, not that the dealer had anything to do with it. It wasn't bent more than before it went in the shop, the time in the shop was a few hours, in and out thing which is how they always schedule for me. None of this drop it off and we'll see you next Tues stuff. In at 9 out by noon usually.
My meaning was since that time it bent more.
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Now that you have the problem verified. Take the side stand assembly off. Heat the bending area cherry red with a torch while bending back to the original shape and then toss it into a bucket of water (oil is better). Reassemble when cooled. You may be waiting months on a replacement.
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Now that you have the problem verified. Take the side stand assembly off. Heat the bending area cherry red with a torch while bending back to the original shape and then toss it into a bucket of water (oil is better). Reassemble when cooled. You may be waiting months on a replacement.
This could be a bad idea if you don't know the steel alloy. If it is high carbon, it will be brittle, and break. When in doubt, cool slowly.
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I doubt that it would be bending as it is if it did have a high carbon content. Maybe that's the problem.
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My interim solution is as follows:
I will drill into the foot of the sidstand centerline to line up with the tube. I'll tap that for a 1/2" bolt. I have some aluminum billet laying around, I'll cut a piece off slightly larger than the foot and 1.5" thick and bolt that to the bottom of the stand foot countersinking the bolt head.
I can make sure that the aluminum will sit flat on flat ground when the stand is extended. This will add minimal weight, won't require removing the stand or torching it. It's a stop gap measure just so when its necessary tonuse it for a short time the lean angle is lessened and therefore less stress is on the stand.
Any why nots?
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By adding height to the foot will only exaserbate the problem as the bend in the stand is already compromised.
Solution: remove stand, Heat and rebend as LaMojo suggests. Quench in hot water or oil to re-strengthen. let cool, Drill two holes in sidestand tube, one at point tube attaches to foot and the second at highest point on tube below pivot. Mix up a batch of two part epoxy and sand, place sidestand horizontally in vise so bottom hole is slightly higher than top hole. [lets any air bubbles out ] Fill with epoxy mix and let cure. Sidestand is now a solid tube and will not bend further.
Paul :boozing:
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I am assuming you want to or have to return the unmolested stand for warranty? Otherwise just remove the stand,straighten it with heat or bend it back cold (it got that way cold) and weld in a properly placed brace or reinforcing member. It's a simple fix,really. :wink:
Terry
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I thought your Norge was still under warranty? Am I mistaken?
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It's a simple fix,really. :wink:
Yep.
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I thought your Norge was still under warranty? Am I mistaken?
Yup (warranty). We're getting decent riding weather in between rain. It will take about a month for the part to come in. I was carrying around a 2*4 block but just trying to make it easier when stopping and before it goes up on the center stand.
I looked really close and the bend is actually the tab part, not the strut. At first I thought it was the strut but it isn't, it's the plate that the strut attaches to. At least that is what it looks like, I have no other Norge to use as comparison. I'm thinking the plate would be flat and the strut bent to get the necessary angle. The plate ( part that bolts to the frame and the strut in turn bolts to) is bent from flat.
Its a guess without seeing another good one. The parts put in for are the entire assembly.
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Dang, gotta check out the 2014 sitting in my garage (200 miles on bike)?
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If mine leaned only twice that far I'd live with it. Mine leans over much farther.
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If mine leaned only twice that far I'd live with it. Mine leans over much farther.
Ditto for my Norge. Not only that, but the foot of the stand is far from being flat on the ground; the inside part of the foot touches, but the outside (distal edge) is about 1/2 cm off the ground on a flat surface. Additionally, the "elbow" just above (proximal to) the foot also touches the ground.
Jon
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2014 Norge.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/mkbztw.jpg)
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The Red Norge's sidestands were made on Tuesday mornings, the White ones Thursday after lunch. :grin:
Replacement will solve it. At 165 I perfected getting it up on the center stand. Its more secure there. Side stand is just for short on the road stops. If its going to be parked for more than a few minutes, it goes on the center stand.
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I'm not so sure yours is bent out of spec?
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I'm not so sure yours is bent out of spec?
What spec? Here is how I look at these things. It wasn't the way it is now when I picked it up. It bent. If someone wants to put up the money in case it falls over no sweat, I'm game. Somehow, if my Norge fell over because the stand eventually broke I bet there would be posts asking why I didn't get it fixed before?
However, in the absence of that, its my obligation to fix it or I am willing to accept mediocrity. Its an $80 or so part. I could just buy a new one but why? I already paid for better.
I doubt anyone with a bent stand will say anything or seek a new stand. Their choice.
I'm not trying to get anyone to replace their side stand. I just brought it up so in case anyone else had the same type of excessive bend, they knew someone else did too and what they did about it.
There is nothing wrong with having it replaced. How else are they going to know the stand bent unless someone says something?
I'm not telling anyone to do anything, you like your stand? Great. Mine is bent. MG will replace it or fix it.
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I find it deeply ironic that the person having the most problems here is the same person whose first reaction to anything is to go looking for some form of legal redress or a government agency to impose order on the chaos and disaster that seems to follow them around.
In the rest of the world most bikes, the Norge included, have simple, effective, straight side stands that work as intended and rarely, if ever give any problems.
The reason US stands are different and tend to have the moment inducing, stress raiser 'Bend' in them is a direct result of a design rule change implemented by one of the government agencies or as a result of a court case after some cloth-eared dolt didn't deploy the stand correctly and one assumes dropped their bike, perhaps causing injury or damage.
The problem isn't the stand. Everywhere else in the world people seem to get along quite happily with the stand as originally designed. Their stands don't bend or fail and they seem, as would most Americans, that if they park their bike poorly and it falls over? Well? Suck it up princess! I've done it myself on multiple occasions in my life but I've never felt the need to make a song and dance about it! Apart from anything else it just draws attention to the fact that I'd been a goose! Nobody likes being laughed at! :grin:
So in this case the problem is directly traceable back to not the designers who are now obliged to strictly adhere to a stupid design rule that is a product of legislation or legal arse-covering but to the actions and demands of an idiot or idiots who simply wouldn't take responsibility for their own actions.
If the OP wants a side stand that works properly? You have two choices. Build your own or modify the existing 'Safety' stand manufactured for the needy and 'Special'. Or simply buy the better stand used in every other market on the planet.
IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!!!
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Hogwash. I have yet to seek legal redress for anything, nor petitioned any government agency to do a darn thing. For others who should not have to pay for someone else's screw ups, yeah, I support their right to seek redress.
Maybe you need to read the OP and start there. It was simple. It will be simple too, a new stand.
Its always better for those who pay for something to pay twice, just to satisfy some idea that because its a Moto Guzzi, certain crappy designs are not only acceptable but desirable because then some can spend endless hours figuring out why and then come up with a fix.
No government agency designed the side stand. In fact, most everyone else seems to be able to make them but because its MG they can't?
My OP was short and concise. Now if you want to tell me that it didn't bend, save it, it did and I did not bend it.
Its okay for individuals to suck up for repairs but if a dealer needs to suck it up, oh no, can't have that. Please.
If the stand was made properly, it would not bend, period. The only reason there are seat belts in cars, air bags, ABS, tubeless tires and engines thatnlast more than 50k miles is because someone said something about it.
The only thing that gets fixed when the owner digs into their wallet is the recipients bank account. The original problem remains and that is why people have to sort out things, not because of any reason other that some false idea that accepting defective work is okay.
Show me the government mandate or regulation that requires the Norge's side stand to be designed the way it is? There is no such thing, that came out of thin air.
If my stand is the only one to bend, fine and I said exactly that.
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GET THE EURO ONE AND BE DONE WITH IT. :boozing:
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GET THE EURO ONE AND BE DONE WITH IT. :boozing:
That's what I'd do too. Luckily I have a Griso which has a stand that looks like it was designed by I. K. Brunell! It appears to be made out of some late Victorian material too? Cast iron maybe? :grin:
Pete
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GET THE EURO ONE AND BE DONE WITH IT. :boozing:
No, let MG decide if they want to replace it. I am not in a hurry. Why should I go by a Euro stand? If this is is a one time bending issue, then the replacement will fix it.
I've already paid for a stand, why should I pay twice? Lest anyone forget:
"2013 Norge. Noticed the bike leaning more than usual. Everything tight. The actual sudestand is bending, slowly but surely.
Hopefully the replacement will not bend. It is not the pivot but the long portion itself. No longer using the side stand, it is questionable so center stand only.
Probably the only one bending like that. Never sat in the bike with the side stand down."
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It doesn't look anymore bent than mine. :boozing:
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In the meantime, this hasn't sold twice so contact the guy and buy the thing as I believe it will fit your bike.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Moto-Guzzi-Breva-1100-Side-Stand-NO-RESERVE-/181958083373?vxp=mtr
For $5 bucks plus $10 bucks shipping, you can put in your claim and wait for the new one, then just shelve it in your garage,etc.
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In the meantime, this hasn't sold twice so contact the guy and buy the thing as I believe it will fit your bike.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Moto-Guzzi-Breva-1100-Side-Stand-NO-RESERVE-/181958083373?vxp=mtr
For $5 bucks plus $10 bucks shipping, you can put in your claim and wait for the new one, then just shelve it in your garage,etc.
I appreciate the info. The warranty claim is already in. It will be addressed that way.
After my OP some saw fit to throw gasoline and light a match to see what would happen. Then when the result was fire, run for the hills and then watch. Exactly what happened.
I'm being frugal, let MG pay for the new one. I said it wasn't a big deal, others accomplished that and then the blame anyone but MG came out like clockwork.
Why do they even bother with warranties, its always the owners fault anyway, or the weather.
I'll wait for MG to say whatever it is they will say, my last comment in this topic.
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It doesn't look anymore bent than mine. :boozing:
:popcorn:
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Another pic.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2wd60dz.jpg)
compare?
(http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag263/NorgePilot/IMG_20151231_115342_zpssm08ku72.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUFZC7uXQZc
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Update.
The replacement side stand was replaced under warranty. No longer does the first bend contact the ground first and it is easier to pull it up level.
The answer was not a Euro stand, it was a non-bending side stand. All it took was a good dealer to look, listen and then follow through. They exist and well worth the effort to find.
They had a new MV Augusta Veloce sitting outside. With bags there is one heck of a smaller displacement bike for everything. Pricey though but it looks really good. Next to it was a yellow Ducati Scrambler. Everyone looked at it.
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Hey NP...how about posting a side by side pic of the two stands for compare purposes...would be interesting to see. Thanks!
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Dealer kept the original side stand so I can't photo a side by side. Pretty sure dealers are required to retain warranty exchanged parts. Sonn as , if I can position the Norge the same exact way, maybe I can take a pic that way.
On the original, the first bend from the cross brace (the remainder of the stand then goes outward to the foot) would contact the ground. On the replacement, there is a gap so that the foot of the side stand is planted on the ground.
It made enough difference when leveling the Norge upright that I feel it right away, must be the angle thing. For sure, now I don't worry that it will continue to bend and there is confidence to use it routinely.
I have to say, thus far, not once has my Norge needed a service, part or fix that the dealer hasn't been able to perform the same day (within hours) or that Moto Guzzi has denied as a final position.
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Yeah...that's great service from a good dealer. Pity on the pics, a side by side would have been nice to see.
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Dealer kept the original side stand so I can't photo a side by side. Pretty sure dealers are required to retain warranty exchanged parts.
On the original, the first bend from the cross brace (the remainder of the stand then goes outward to the foot) would contact the ground. On the replacement, there is a gap so that the foot of the side stand is planted on the ground.
It made enough difference when leveling the Norge upright that I feel it right away, must be the angle thing. For sure, now I don't worry that it will continue to bend and there is confidence to use it routinely.
I have to say, thus far, not once has my Norge needed a service, part or fix that the dealer hasn't been able to perform the same day (within hours) or that Moto Guzzi has denied as a final position.
GREAT! Now tell me how the hell do you put the dang thing on the center stand without tearing a big old hole in your foot and oh, that back can't take 500lb lifts anymore? :thewife:
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GREAT! Now tell me how the hell do you put the dang thing on the center stand without tearing a big old hole in your foot and oh, that back can't take 500lb lifts anymore? :thewife:
It can be quite difficult, especially if the nuts on the center stand hinge bolts are too tight, as mine were initially...
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=75158.0 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=75158.0)
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GREAT! Now tell me how the hell do you put the dang thing on the center stand without tearing a big old hole in your foot and oh, that back can't take 500lb lifts anymore? :thewife:
Easy.
Take a piece of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood and roll the Norge back where the rear tire if just on the plywood. You don't need a big piece just as wide as the tire and maybe 5 or 6" long.
Then put it up.
What happens is that the slight lift of the rear tire onto the plywood allows the centerstand to drop down just a tad making it far easier to put the Norge onto the center stand.
Wait. Put a similar piece out to the side which is where the side stand goes when you stop. That way the Norge isn't heaving over farther than it should.
You will be amazed at how much easier it is to put it up.
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What kind of oil have you been using?
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GREAT! Now tell me how the hell do you put the dang thing on the center stand without tearing a big old hole in your foot and oh, that back can't take 500lb lifts anymore? :thewife:
CR, -- Getting the Norge on the center stand should be easy for you, I'm 160 lbs and I don't have any trouble. You must be doing something weird if its hurting you.
Here's what I do :
1. Left hand on left handle bar grip
2. Right hand on passenger grab rail
3. LEFT foot on center stand lever (this puts your weight further out on the lever arm of the center stand, giving you more mechanical advantage)
4. Stand up straight ! (You are facing the bike)
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Both great tips above, also having it slightly rolling backwards to get some momentum makes putting it up on the center stand a piece of cake. I'd recommend doing it with boots, not tennis shoes or sandals though...if your feet are killing you.
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What kind of oil have you been using?
Motorex POWER SYNT 4T 10W/60
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Procedure according to NP. I am also 160 pounds and it is not a problem getting on the center stand except when packed and stopping for fuel on an uneven or forward sloping surface. It is a bit more difficult than my T-3. For the most part I have more problem getting it off the center stand if on a relatively smooth surface. It just scoots forward. I have to put my foot in front of the stand to trip it.
GliderJohn
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CR, -- Getting the Norge on the center stand should be easy for you, I'm 160 lbs and I don't have any trouble. You must be doing something weird if its hurting you.
Here's what I do :
1. Left hand on left handle bar grip
2. Right hand on passenger grab rail
3. LEFT foot on center stand lever (this puts your weight further out on the lever arm of the center stand, giving you more mechanical advantage)
4. Stand up straight ! (You are facing the bike)
What a simple solution!!