Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: DRL on January 28, 2016, 04:33:16 PM
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I've been enjoying the forum for some time now and thought it was time to jump.
My question--I fear--is pretty much "Should I have a third slice of pie?" type question. I know the answer. Still...
The situation:
I traded in my Triumph for a new V7 Stone in May of 2014. On mile 10 (yes, 10), as I was riding up the Westside Highway of Manhattan, the bike caught fire. Flames spitting out the coupling of the right exhaust pipe. Fortunately, I only lost a pair of jean to the flames and not my life. The fuel injector somehow failed and spilled gas into the pipe.
Long story cut short, after the repairs and a month of additional problems (clutch, throttle & oil) the dealership exchanged the bike for another new V7.
Jump ahead 18 months. The "new" V7 has had continue clutch issue where the cable goes slack and the bike is stuck in one gear. (I've read the other comments on the forum, so my question isn't about clutch issues.)
So after having taken the bike to the shop 8 times in 7 weeks, I hired an attorney to pursue the lemon laws.
And...I've just been offered another brand new V7II.
Initially, I was thinking, Sell it fast and look for something else come spring, but then I saw a photo of it and Damn. Questioning whether I should give the Guzzi One. More. Try.
Thoughts?
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Under the lemon law the manufacturer is required to either offer a new bike or refund the entire purchase price, including tax, license and any fees less a very small use of mileage adjustment...
YOUR choice, not theirs.
Get the money and then think it through. Time is on your side when you have the money in hand. You can then sit back and go over all of this at your leisure. If you then decide to get another V7 is will be because that is what you really wanted and not because you had to.
Besides, given the prices, you might be able to get another V7 for a lot less than you originally paid.
Take care of :1:, not anyone else.
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One more try. Third time is a charm. The V7II is nice. I am curious on the clutch problem, Did they find bad wear shims on back of crank?
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Sounds like a "put the key in and there ya go" dealer. I'd go elsewhere, but still....
One more try. Third time is a charm. The V7II is nice. I am curious on the clutch problem, Did they find bad wear shims on back of crank?
My guess is they would be clueless as to what you are even saying.. :evil:
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I dunno... I LOVE my V7, but if I was let down twice, I might have moved on.
My Jackal was troublesome at times, but FUN. My Breva still has some problems but felt like a big improvement overall so I remained optimistic. My V7 has basically been bulletproof.
So I'm tempted to say maybe 3rd time's the charm.
But I'd understand if you ran away instead.
Edit - I would normally wonder if your dealer is part of the problem, but they shouldn't have had anything to do with an injector and if the clutch issue was something at the crank we baby blame them on that either.
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I'd jump for the V7 II!
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...I would normally wonder if your dealer is part of the problem, but they shouldn't have had anything to do with an injector and if the clutch issue was something at the crank we baby blame them on that either.
If the OP really took the bike in 7 times in 8 weeks, the dealer is doing something wrong. I'm assuming this is exaggeration on the OP's part, but if not, perhaps he should get his money back and try a more reputable dealer?
DRL, where are you located? The board can surely recommend your best option is getting a properly set up MG.
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If the OP really took the bike in 7 times in 8 weeks, the dealer is doing something wrong.
My point..
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I also love my V7II so I would go with that.
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get the money.. Triumph still makes nice bikes.
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I'm kinda hoping he was exaggerating.
Thing is, if it takes longer than a test ride to go back out of adjustment, then I could see at least a couple of back and forths before even a good dealer would dig deeper.
But yeah, if it was 7-8 times then I agree with you guys.
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Ok, it came from the factory with a loose hose clamp. That started the fire. It should have been caught at dealer prep.
Long story cut short, after the repairs and a month of additional problems (clutch, throttle & oil)
Hello. The clutch and throttle is just an adjustment, again should have been done at dealer prep. Oil?? How the F do they F that up??
Run away from that dealer. They're clueless. Take the money and decide if you want to give Guzzi another try *with another dealer* or not.
Welcome to WG, btw.. :smiley:
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I'd buy a Honda..or a used Guzzi from someone on here that has their bike sorted and just wanting to move on to something else.
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Under the lemon law the manufacturer is required to either offer a new bike or refund the entire purchase price, including tax, license and any fees less a very small use of mileage adjustment...
YOUR choice, not theirs.
Get the money and then think it through. Time is on your side when you have the money in hand. You can then sit back and go over all of this at your leisure. If you then decide to get another V7 is will be because that is what you really wanted and not because you had to.
Besides, given the prices, you might be able to get another V7 for a lot less than you originally paid.
Take care of :1:, not anyone else.
It sounds like the offer of a V7II is part of a settlement negotiation rather than a result of Moto Guzzi admitting the bike is a lemon. Also, the price paid for the original V7 may or may not equal the price for a new V7II or similar 2016 bike.
If DLR purchased locally, the dealer was either Gold Coast or Brooklyn Vespa. The former is no longer a Moto Guzzi dealer. The latter has a reasonably good reputation. Meanwhile, Moto Guzzi has opened a flagship store in Manhattan that is apparently owned and operated by the company, to which warranty claims can also be taken.
Personally, I am unaware of a lot of lemon complaints - indeed any lemon complaints - about these bikes.
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Under the lemon law the manufacturer is required to either offer a new bike or refund the entire purchase price, including tax, license and any fees less a very small use of mileage adjustment...
YOUR choice, not theirs.
Get the money and then think it through. Time is on your side when you have the money in hand. You can then sit back and go over all of this at your leisure. If you then decide to get another V7 is will be because that is what you really wanted and not because you had to.
Besides, given the prices, you might be able to get another V7 for a lot less than you originally paid.
Take care of :1:, not anyone else.
This may be true in your state but not true in all states. In Arizona when you pursue a lemon law claim the manufacturer has 3 choices, they can offer to buy your vehicle back, they can offer you a new vehicle, or they can offer to pay to a sum of money and you keep the vehicle.
Much of what is offered depends on the age of the vehicle I suspect.
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DRL - every bike is different and it may be you got a lemon. It is a tough thing to do, but if you stepped back from the fact that the bike is trying to kill you, deprive you of riding or take all your money, did you really enjoy the bike? If so, I would take the V7II. Both my wife and I have gone through the same thing. This is no exaggeration, her new G650 had 23 warrantied repairs in the first 18 thousand miles and two years (a total of over $5K in work). I kept telling her it was a piece of junk. She kept saying it was the only bike she really enjoyed riding. It now has nearly 60 thousand miles but has had only about another four or five small problems since year two.
On the other hand, my 12gs had eight small warrantied repairs in the first 50 thousand miles, then, out of warranty I've had nearly another $10K in repairs over the last 40 thousand miles, and a couple of them have tried to kill me. Stepping back I realized that I only really enjoyed riding the bike about 60% of the time. So, time to try something else. In my case it will be a V7II.
Try to focus on the actual riding experience and not on the poor dealer experience.
But if you do decide to take the money, I have a good deal on a slightly used 12gs.....!
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Ok, it came from the factory with a loose hose clamp. That started the fire. It should have been caught at dealer prep. Hello. The clutch and throttle is just an adjustment, again should have been done at dealer prep. Oil?? How the F do they F that up??
Run away from that dealer. They're clueless. Take the money and decide if you want to give Guzzi another try *with another dealer* or not.
Welcome to WG, btw.. :smiley:
Fuel INTO the pipe (if the story is accurate) isn't a hose clamp.
And Steve seems to think clutch adjustment could be more than just setting it up at the throw arm or lever.
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Under the lemon law the manufacturer is required to either offer a new bike or refund the entire purchase price, including tax, license and any fees less a very small use of mileage adjustment...
YOUR choice, not theirs.
Get the money and then think it through. Time is on your side when you have the money in hand. You can then sit back and go over all of this at your leisure. If you then decide to get another V7 is will be because that is what you really wanted and not because you had to.
Besides, given the prices, you might be able to get another V7 for a lot less than you originally paid.
Take care of :1:, not anyone else.
Thanks. And yes. The attorney who's dealing with the old V7 said it was Guzzi's settlement offer (either a new bike or a rebuilt engine). I'd have to check with the attorney, but I'm assuming I could move forward with taking the case to court for the cash. It's all about the ROI on time.
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Thanks. And yes. The attorney who's dealing with the old V7 said it was Guzzi's settlement offer (either a new bike or a rebuilt engine). I'd have to check with the attorney, but I'm assuming I could move forward with taking the case to court for the cash. It's all about the ROI on time.
This is dead simple. Yes, you could go to court, and you could also lose. Moto Guzzi has made you a very good offer. Take it. And stop talking about it on-line. Settlement discussions are supposed to be private. Your lawyer would not be happy about this thread, and consider the possibility that his/her advice, for which you are paying, might be worth more than the opinions of people on some forum who know less than your lawyer does both about the facts and the applicable law.
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Thanks. And yes. The attorney who's dealing with the old V7 said it was Guzzi's settlement offer (either a new bike or a rebuilt engine). I'd have to check with the attorney, but I'm assuming I could move forward with taking the case to court for the cash. It's all about the ROI on time.
Get more info from your attorney. One of the most important aspects of dealing with negotiations and lawyers is to know all the details before you agree to anything. There should be no question in your mind as to what your options are and what the likely outcome is.
You have documented (?) evidence of the failure to fix. Don't forget, MG wants to reduce their costs, not give you the best deal. They are also looking out for :1: and that isn't you.
If you were to take it farther, MG is on the hook for all legal and court costs too and then it gets very expensive for them, far more than just refunding your money. Consider that.
Its in the art if the deal and their offer might be a starting point, something you should find out. Was it their best, last and final offer?
You probably spent money, expended time and other resources going back and forth that many times. Add it up, that is not a reasonal expectation or cost on your part.
You're only getting one shot at this.
Do you just want to settle or be made whole? Then consider what it cost you above and bryong the purchase price. How long have you had it? Is there a loan you've been paying interest on? Have you needed to arrange for alternate transportation while the bike was in the shop? Take time off work time and time again because they couldn't fix the bike?
What I am saying is to add it all up and then consider the offer. You will have to swallow some but you shouldn't be the one with the trap door underwear in this one.
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Get more info from your attorney. One of the most important aspects of dealing with negotiations and lawyers is to know all the details before you agree to anything. There should be no question in your mind as to what your options are and what the likely outcome is.
You have documented (?) evidence of the failure to fix. Don't forget, MG wants to reduce their costs, not give you the best deal. They are also looking out for :1: and that isn't you.
If you were to take it farther, MG is on the hook for all legal and court costs too and then it gets very expensive for them, far more than just refunding your money. Consider that.
Its in the art if the deal and their offer might be a starting point, something you should find out. Was it their best, last and final offer?
You probably spent money, expended time and other resources going back and forth that many times. Add it up, that is not a reasonal expectation or cost on your part.
You're only getting one shot at this.
Do you just want to settle or be made whole? Then consider what it cost you above and bryong the purchase price. How long have you had it? Is there a loan you've been paying interest on? Have you needed to arrange for alternate transportation while the bike was in the shop? Take time off work time and time again because they couldn't fix the bike?
What I am saying is to add it all up and then consider the offer. You will have to swallow some but you shouldn't be the one with the trap door underwear in this one.
You are the kind of client who drives lawyers crazy, and who winds up with a big bill because you turn a simple problem into a huge issue :)
If his lawyer is advising him to take the offer, the only issue that could reasonably be discussed here is whether V7 bikes, and V7IIs in particular, have a history of being lemons. They don't. Unless you have information to the contrary, there isn't more that anyone here is competent to discuss.
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I'm a lawyer. This is simple. MG has offered you a brand new V7II. That's a good deal. Take it, and then either keep it, or sell it: your choice.
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I'm a lawyer. This is simple. MG has offered you a brand new V7II. That's a good deal. Take it, and then either keep it, or sell it: your choice.
Was reluctant to say it, in part because he's already got a lawyer, but I'm also a lawyer, and we are in complete agreement.
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You are the kind of client who drives lawyers crazy, and who winds up with a big bill because you turn a simple problem into a huge issue :)
If his lawyer is advising him to take the offer, the only issue that could reasonably be discussed here is whether V7 bikes, and V7IIs in particular, have a history of being lemons. They don't. Unless you have information to the contrary, there isn't more that anyone here is competent to discuss.
The OP hasn't said his lawyer advised him to do anything. If his lawyer did advise to accept it, that wasn't in the thread (maybe I missed it).
Drive the lawyer crazy? Since when is asking questions driving the lawyer crazy, it is called making informed decisions. The days of just going along because someone says so went out some time ago. People used to just do what the doctor said and didn't ask questions. Same with lawyers. If a lawyer can't handle a few questions ...
If this was all so simple, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.
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The OP hasn't said his lawyer advised him to do anything. If his lawyer did advise to accept it, that wasn't in the thread (maybe I missed it).
Drive the lawyer crazy? Since when is asking questions driving the lawyer crazy, it is called making informed decisions. The days of just going along because someone says so went out some time ago. People used to just do what the doctor said and didn't ask questions. Same with lawyers. If a lawyer can't handle a few questions ...
If this was all so simple, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.
Cool. Just realize that your lawyer will be charging you his or her hourly rate to listen to, and respond to, each of your questions. We're talking about getting a 2016 V7II to replace a 2014 V7, not about compensation for allegedly botched open heart surgery.
If anything, what this is telling me is that Moto Guzzi is acting honourably.
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Love our 2016 V7II Special with almost 5,000 miles
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get the money.. Triumph still makes nice bikes.
My thoughts exactly! Or build a REALLY SWEET old Guzzi.
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get the money.. Triumph still makes nice bikes.
Bulletproof but boring.
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OH NO , more lawyers on the forum :rolleyes: :laugh: That does explain some things :evil:
Dusty
So far, the only thing that the lawyers have said is that it is dead obvious that Moto Guzzi is offering DRL a good deal. What else do the comments of lawyers in this thread explain, apart from the idea that people should keep a sense of proportion?
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I've known a lot of lawyers in my time. My uncle was a lawyer. Personally, it sounds like a good deal from Guzzi. I'd take it.
Another observation. You clearly must be intrigued or smitten with the Guzzi. Otherwise, after what you have been through, you would not be asking our opinions and would have moved on.
So.
Since the V7 apparently speaks to you, I'd stay at the table and get another set of cards from the Guzzi dealer. If the new one is also sub-optimal, well, take that as a sign that maybe you and Guzzi are not meant to be.
I love my '13 Stone to bits. My all time favorite bike in 35 years of riding. I haven't had serious issues, and have put about 37,000 miles on mine in 2 years. What does that prove? Only that there *are* good ones out there. You are not dealing with some basic design flaw. Perhaps you just got a bad one. I'd try a different one--see if your luck changes.
Of course, Triumphs make cool bikes too.
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I've known a lot of lawyers in my time. My uncle was a lawyer. Personally, it sounds like a good deal from Guzzi. I'd take it.
Another observation. You clearly must be intrigued or smitten with the Guzzi. Otherwise, after what you have been through, you would not be asking our opinions and would have moved on.
So.
Since the V7 apparently speaks to you, I'd stay at the table and get another set of cards from the Guzzi dealer. If the new one is also sub-optimal, well, take that as a sign that maybe you and Guzzi are not meant to be.
I love my '13 Stone to bits. My all time favorite bike in 35 years of riding. I haven't had serious issues, and have put about 37,000 miles on mine in 2 years. What does that prove? Only that there *are* good ones out there. You are not dealing with some basic design flaw. Perhaps you just got a bad one. I'd try a different one--see if your luck changes.
Of course, Triumphs make cool bikes too.
Some of my best friends are lawyers , seriously . Apparently some law schools perform a humorectomy on their grads :evil: Not where you attended , huh Prescott ? :laugh:
Dusty
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Oh , and I would take the advice from the lawyers in this situation .
Dusty
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This is so simple. As the OP might realise each one who rides a V7 or a V7II loves that bike (me too). The reason for this: it is a lovely and highly dependable bike.
Take the V7II. Just look for another dealer.
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I'd probably take the V7II, but would think awfully hard about taking the $$ and finding a nice CB1100. A friend has one and having ridden his, it's the only other standard out there I would consider. Extremely competent cycle, if a little soulless. As all others have pointed out, I love my V7! Put over 2,000 miles on it last year with no issues, and I bought it the middle of August. I'm also blessed with a very good dealer who has completely embraced MG, ClevelandMoto.
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It's all about the ROI on time.
My two bits depend on how the OP defines and measures "return." If you LOVE the thought of and feel of riding a Guzzi, then go for the V7II with a new start with a new mechanic. If you are interested in a more pragmatic definition of ROI, like, how many days of the riding season will I be able to ride this one machine, or HP/$ etc., then you would be wise to consider other rides on whichever criteria you are using to define "return" in ROI. Sheer joy is a return on investment, as is better MPG or higher top speed. If your primary criterion is "Guzzi Joy" then it's going to gnaw at you if you go with another mount unless it has the strong possibility of developing "Motorcycle X Joy" in you as well. But one doesn't replace the other. I have Ducati Joy but still have unrequited Guzzi Joy. 2 bits done.
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Fixed it for you, Dusty...
OH NO , more humorless lawyers on the forum :rolleyes: :laugh: That does explain some things :evil:
Dusty
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You know, this little under powered almost completely electronics aids free bike sure does stir the forum. The tell tale though is people keep buying this under powered little light weight and keep posting about how it is the best bike they ever owned, pfffft!
Then they post the mileages, lots over 20,000 miles. Bikes that are not fun and don't stir the owner to ride, do not get those kind of mileages. It starts out as a standard, naked, granted some owners add wind protection in some form or another, then comes the luggage when they realize, hey I can go a ways on this thing.
I'd say, take the new V7II.
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O , no doubt a sense of humor is important , although probably not necessary , unless one wants to be happy :laugh: Before our lawyers get upset , we were only joking :shocked: :shocked:
Dusty
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Let me start by saying my2013 V7 has been great. No problems at all.
But you must try the new triumph street twin before making a decision.
Its lighter this year more torque lower and looks great
I own an05 thruxton as well as the V7 and both bikes have performed well
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I dunno... I LOVE my V7, but if I was let down twice, I might have moved on.
My Jackal was troublesome at times, but FUN. My Breva still has some problems but felt like a big improvement overall so I remained optimistic. My V7 has basically been bulletproof.
So I'm tempted to say maybe 3rd time's the charm.
But I'd understand if you ran away instead.
Edit - I would normally wonder if your dealer is part of the problem, but they shouldn't have had anything to do with an injector and if the clutch issue was something at the crank we baby blame them on that either.
It very well may be the dealer.
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If the OP really took the bike in 7 times in 8 weeks, the dealer is doing something wrong. I'm assuming this is exaggeration on the OP's part, but if not, perhaps he should get his money back and try a more reputable dealer?
DRL, where are you located? The board can surely recommend your best option is getting a properly set up MG.
I'm in NYC, which is a whole other pain in the ass with a bike. That said, getting out of the city for a long ride is amazing.
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DRL - every bike is different and it may be you got a lemon. It is a tough thing to do, but if you stepped back from the fact that the bike is trying to kill you, deprive you of riding or take all your money, did you really enjoy the bike? If so, I would take the V7II. Both my wife and I have gone through the same thing. This is no exaggeration, her new G650 had 23 warrantied repairs in the first 18 thousand miles and two years (a total of over $5K in work). I kept telling her it was a piece of junk. She kept saying it was the only bike she really enjoyed riding. It now has nearly 60 thousand miles but has had only about another four or five small problems since year two.
On the other hand, my 12gs had eight small warrantied repairs in the first 50 thousand miles, then, out of warranty I've had nearly another $10K in repairs over the last 40 thousand miles, and a couple of them have tried to kill me. Stepping back I realized that I only really enjoyed riding the bike about 60% of the time. So, time to try something else. In my case it will be a V7II.
Try to focus on the actual riding experience and not on the poor dealer experience.
But if you do decide to take the money, I have a good deal on a slightly used 12gs.....!
Good advice. And yes. It's really about the heart vs the head. LOVE riding, even in NYC. But man, I pretty much lost all of August and September because the bike was in the shop. I'd get it back, ride 40 or so miles, and have the same issue.
Thanks for the good insight.
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Get more info from your attorney. One of the most important aspects of dealing with negotiations and lawyers is to know all the details before you agree to anything. There should be no question in your mind as to what your options are and what the likely outcome is.
You have documented (?) evidence of the failure to fix. Don't forget, MG wants to reduce their costs, not give you the best deal. They are also looking out for :1: and that isn't you.
If you were to take it farther, MG is on the hook for all legal and court costs too and then it gets very expensive for them, far more than just refunding your money. Consider that.
Its in the art if the deal and their offer might be a starting point, something you should find out. Was it their best, last and final offer?
You probably spent money, expended time and other resources going back and forth that many times. Add it up, that is not a reasonal expectation or cost on your part.
You're only getting one shot at this.
Do you just want to settle or be made whole? Then consider what it cost you above and bryong the purchase price. How long have you had it? Is there a loan you've been paying interest on? Have you needed to arrange for alternate transportation while the bike was in the shop? Take time off work time and time again because they couldn't fix the bike?
What I am saying is to add it all up and then consider the offer. You will have to swallow some but you shouldn't be the one with the trap door underwear in this one.
The art of the deal, indeed. Thanks for the insight. All good.
What I found interesting was that most attorneys didn't even want to touch the case. I have all the documentation. But I'm thinking (guessing) that, because the bike is a "low-cost" vehicle, they may not get as much for the deal. Or as one attorney said, they've plenty of work because of VW.
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Was reluctant to say it, in part because he's already got a lawyer, but I'm also a lawyer, and we are in complete agreement.
Thanks. That is how I'm leaning.
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First of all, I'd wager that the percentage of lawyers with a good sense of humor is higher than most professions. Sure, there are those for whom talking to them is like eating a hard boiled egg with nothing to drink. But the practice of law is so replete with absurdities and irony. You can't survive if you can't laugh, including at yourself. That's why it's good grist for good television.
It's a $9,000 motorcycle. If I couldn't resolve this in a few hours, I wouldn't take the case either.
I've had two V7s and am contemplating getting a third. On the reliability scale, they are pretty darn impressive as a whole.
I want to see how the V9 pans out in reviews and a test ride, but I'll likely end up with a V7II.
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The art of the deal, indeed. Thanks for the insight. All good.
What I found interesting was that most attorneys didn't even want to touch the case. I have all the documentation. But I'm thinking (guessing) that, because the bike is a "low-cost" vehicle, they may not get as much for the deal. Or as one attorney said, they've plenty of work because of VW.
Like many professional services, getting quality service in lower reward jobs is difficult. Same thing happens with health care. Nothing new there.
I just keep in mind that the professional service provider unwilling to answer a few questions is one to stay away from because they'll often be nothing more than self serving.
No one is saying that the client can be tedious or repetitive in asking questions or exploring options but those that are good in their practice know how to answer questions and explain options with a minimum amount of wasted time.
The case might be small, but to whom? While no one wants to make a small case into something it is not, it is only by getting information that one makes good decisions.
That's all, wasn't saying anything more than that because in the end, the client is the one that has to live with the consequences, not the lawyer or doctor.
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Since we are derailed anyway... No one needs to hire a lawyer. If you don't want to, then don't. If you have the necessary knowledge, verbal and intellectual ability, as well as detachment, you can represent yourself in court if you would like. It is not like you are performing surgery on yourself under anesthesia.
However, lawyers need to pay rent, utilities, staff wages, student loans, malpractice insurance premiums, etc. if they intend to remain in business. They need to focus on the 20% of their clients who pay 80% of their fees. Small cases can be problematic for lawyers: they make very little money on them, and their clients' expectations can be far out of line with financial reality.
It is astounding to me that people will pay a plumber or an electrician $2,000 for some work around the house (or $4,000 for a builder to install a back door to a garage with some steps leading to the back yard), yet balk at paying much less to a lawyer for his services...
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What has the world come to when we start defending lawyers? :shocked: Somebody change the subject! :rolleyes:
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Same thing happens all over. The motorcycle owner who sees the shop rates for service as gouging but never factors in that those fees support more than the wages of the tech, they subsidize the entire business too. The rider, who stranded on the road because they change their oil every 2000 miles but hesitates to put in a new battery and then complains about it.
Human nature?
Valuing personal services is hard for some because it isn't a durable good, once rendered the value decreases to zero in their minds.
The OP has a good outcome, at the minimum, he gets a new bike and that bike is a Moto Guzzi. That puts him ahead of most others.
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It is astounding to me that people will pay a plumber or an electrician $2,000 for some work around the house (or $4,000 for a builder to install a back door to a garage with some steps leading to the back yard), yet balk at paying much less to a lawyer for his services...
PAY WHO HOW MUCH FOR WHAT ??? :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
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PAY WHO HOW MUCH FOR WHAT ??? :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
Me, hiring workers and paying them their wages (promptly, not months or years later).
Continuing my rant: on average, I work (unwillingly) 1.5 to 2.0 months a year for free. No, I do not need to change my business model: I have been doing this for more than 20 years, and the other 10.0 to 10.5 months are good. But it tans my hide nevertheless...
I bet most of you do not realize that lawyers can be made to work for free. There, the cat is out of the bag! Lawyers can withdraw from a court case only with the permission of the court, and sometimes that permission is not granted.
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Again - HOW MUCH FOR AN ELECTRICIAN? FOR A CARPENTER TO INSTALL A GARAGE DOOR AND SOME STEPS ???
WHAT?
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Go...
and you'll be back. It's a disease.
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Go...
and you'll be back. It's a disease.
:1: :smiley:
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To all of our lawyers ,
IT WAS A JOKE :laugh:
Oh , about those wages for plumbers and electricians , they have to carry insurance , some states require a million bucks in liability , then you ad on that the independents must fund their own benefits like vacation and retirement , and if it's so easy , everyone would be doing it .
Dusty
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I am not a lawyer but I did stay at the 8 days inn(42 years ago)--take the v2 :boozing:
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Again - HOW MUCH FOR AN ELECTRICIAN? FOR A CARPENTER TO INSTALL A GARAGE DOOR AND SOME STEPS ???
WHAT?
Everyone, well almost everyone knows that the carpenters, plumbers and electricians in Orgeon are California transplants and thus charge California rates. :evil:
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To all of our lawyers ,
IT WAS A JOKE :laugh
Dusty
No need to,worry, Dusty (although we appreciate the sentiment). Lawyers have thick skins -- it's an occupational requirement....
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Was reluctant to say it, in part because he's already got a lawyer, but I'm also a lawyer, and we are in complete agreement.
I'm not a lawyer but when you get free advice from two lawyers independently and the advice agrees you should take it.
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I'm not a lawyer but when you get free advice from two lawyers independently and the advice agrees you should take it.
Dunno man , kinda sounds like a conspiracy ... :shocked: Actually , we have at least three lawyers in agreement here , an almost statistically impossible situation :grin:
Dusty
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Dunno man , kinda sounds like a conspiracy ... :shocked: Actually , we have at least three lawyers in agreement here , an almost statistically impossible situation :grin:
Dusty
No kidding! :wink:
You know what they say: A town too small for one lawyer is big enough for two!
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Take the deal. I know you've had a bad experience, but you've got to know that it is abnormal. Roll the dice again the new bike, and odds are you will love it.
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Take the deal. It may or may not be negligence on the part of the dealer's mechanic but you have received some good (free) legal advice. So, if I were you, I'd take the deal.
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Oh , about those wages for plumbers and electricians , they have to carry insurance , some states require a million bucks in liability , then you ad on that the independents must fund their own benefits like vacation and retirement , and if it's so easy , everyone would be doing it .
Dusty
And don't forget Obamacare-required healthcare, and double FICA (Social Security + Medicare, which, employers pay half of, employees pay the other half of -- independent contractors are their own employers).
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And don't forget Obamacare-required healthcare, and double FICA (Social Security + Medicare, which, employers pay half of, employees pay the other half of -- independent contractors are their own employers).
1. Why are you assuming they wouldn't have had healthcare?
2. IIRC it doesn't work out to double, as you get tax breaks elsewhere that make up for it.
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My $.02. Forget about the money/value end of it. Life is too short and 5 years from now overpaying or not getting the best deal won't matter much. Get the V7II, ride the piss out of it until something else stirs your soul, and I bet you won't regret it.
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You've had a run of bad luck, a big part of it caused by that dealer. HE was responsible for the PDI inspection and HE was responsible for your 8 trips in 7 weeks. Don't give up yet on Guzzi. Take the new bike. Tell Guzzi you want the PDI done right, maybe they'll send one already checked out. Then stay the hell away from that dealer. Which one was it? in NYC or NJ?
Ride it and you may love it. If you don't, or you're too nervous, sell it and buy a Honda. You may be out a little on the sale, but you won't have the hassle of a court case and you could still lose, as improbable as it seems to us, but still possible. And I'm sure the proceedings won't be done quickly. Cases get postponed all the time for dozens of reasons. Even if you win a monetary settlement, you then may have to pursue them to actually pay you in a timely manner. Riding season will be here before the court case is done.
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Riding season 3 years from now will be here before the court case is done.
FTFY