V7--Should I stay or should I go?

[oldbike54]

I've known a lot of lawyers in my time.  My uncle was a lawyer.  Personally, it sounds like a good deal from Guzzi.   I'd take it.

Another observation.   You clearly must be intrigued or smitten with the Guzzi.  Otherwise, after what you have been through, you would not be asking our opinions and would have moved on.   

So.

Since the V7 apparently speaks to you, I'd stay at the table and get another set of cards from the Guzzi dealer.  If the new one is also sub-optimal, well, take that as a sign that maybe you and Guzzi are not meant to be. 

I love my '13 Stone to bits.   My all time favorite bike in 35 years of riding.  I haven't had serious issues, and have put about 37,000 miles on mine in 2 years.   What does that prove?  Only that there *are* good ones out there.   You are not dealing with some basic design flaw.  Perhaps you just got a bad one.  I'd try a different one--see if your luck changes.

Of course, Triumphs make cool bikes too.

 Some of my best friends are lawyers , seriously . Apparently some law schools perform a humorectomy on their grads  Not where you attended , huh Prescott ?

  Dusty

[oldbike54]

 Oh , and I would take the advice from the lawyers in this situation .

 Dusty

[fossil]

This is so simple. As the OP might realise each one who rides a V7 or a V7II loves that bike (me too). The reason for this: it is a lovely and highly dependable bike.

Take the V7II. Just look for another dealer.

[wahoo650]

I'd probably take the V7II, but would think awfully hard about taking the $$ and finding a nice CB1100.  A friend has one and having ridden his, it's the only other standard out there I would consider.  Extremely competent cycle, if a little soulless.  As all others have pointed out, I love my V7!  Put over 2,000 miles on it last year with no issues, and I bought it the middle of August.  I'm also blessed with a very good dealer who has completely embraced MG, ClevelandMoto. 

[Nic in Western NYS]

It's all about the ROI on time.

My two bits depend on how the OP defines and measures "return." If you LOVE the thought of and feel of riding a Guzzi, then go for the V7II with a new start with a new mechanic.  If you are interested in a more pragmatic definition of ROI, like, how many days of the riding season will I be able to ride this one machine, or HP/$ etc., then you would be wise to consider other rides on whichever criteria you are using to define "return" in ROI.  Sheer joy is a return on investment, as is better MPG or higher top speed.  If your primary criterion is "Guzzi Joy" then it's going to gnaw at you if you go with another mount unless it has the strong possibility of developing "Motorcycle X Joy" in you as well.  But one doesn't replace the other.  I have Ducati Joy but still have unrequited Guzzi Joy.  2 bits done.

[O]

Fixed it for you, Dusty...

OH NO , more humorless lawyers on the forum  That does explain some things 

  Dusty

[tiger_one]

You know, this little under powered almost completely electronics aids free bike sure does stir the forum.  The tell tale though is people keep buying this under powered little light weight and keep posting about how it is the best bike they ever owned, pfffft!

Then they post the mileages, lots over 20,000 miles.  Bikes that are not fun and don't stir the owner to ride, do not get those kind of mileages.   It starts out as a standard, naked, granted some owners add wind protection in some form or another, then comes the luggage when they realize, hey I can go a ways on this thing.

I'd say, take the new V7II.

[oldbike54]

 O , no doubt a sense of humor is important , although probably not necessary , unless one wants to be happy  Before our lawyers get upset , we were only joking 

 Dusty

[drlapo]

Let me start by saying my2013 V7 has been great.  No problems at all.
But you must try the new triumph street twin before making a decision.
Its lighter this year more torque lower and looks great
I own an05 thruxton as well as the V7 and both bikes have performed well

[DRL]

I dunno... I LOVE my V7, but if I was let down twice, I might have moved on.

My Jackal was troublesome at times, but FUN. My Breva still has some problems but felt like a big improvement overall so I remained optimistic. My V7 has basically been bulletproof.

So I'm tempted to say maybe 3rd time's the charm.

But I'd understand if you ran away instead.


Edit - I would normally wonder if your dealer is part of the problem, but they shouldn't have had anything to do with an injector and if the clutch issue was something at the crank we baby blame them on that either.

It very well may be the dealer.

[DRL]

If the OP really took the bike in 7 times in 8 weeks, the dealer is doing something wrong.  I'm assuming this is exaggeration on the OP's part, but if not, perhaps he should get his money back and try a more reputable dealer? 

DRL, where are you located?  The board can surely recommend your best option is getting a properly set up MG.

I'm in NYC, which is a whole other pain in the ass with a bike. That said, getting out of the city for a long ride is amazing.

[DRL]

DRL - every bike is different and it may be you got a lemon. It is a tough thing to do, but if you stepped back from the fact that the bike is trying to kill you, deprive you of riding or take all your money, did you really enjoy the bike? If so, I would take the V7II. Both my wife and I have gone through the same thing. This is no exaggeration, her new G650 had 23 warrantied repairs in the first 18 thousand miles and two years (a total of over $5K in work). I kept telling her it was a piece of junk. She kept saying it was the only bike she really enjoyed riding. It now has nearly 60 thousand miles but has had only about another four or five small problems since year two.

On the other hand, my 12gs had eight small warrantied repairs in the first 50 thousand miles, then, out of warranty I've had nearly another $10K in repairs over the last 40 thousand miles, and a couple of them have tried to kill me.  Stepping back I realized that I only really enjoyed riding the bike about 60% of the time. So, time to try something else. In my case it will be a V7II.

Try to focus on the actual riding experience and not on the poor dealer experience.

But if you do decide to take the money, I have a good deal on a slightly used 12gs.....!

Good advice. And yes. It's really about the heart vs the head. LOVE riding, even in NYC. But man, I pretty much lost all of August and September because the bike was in the shop.  I'd get it back, ride 40 or so miles, and have the same issue.

Thanks for the good insight.

[DRL]

Get more info from your attorney. One of the most important aspects of dealing with negotiations and lawyers is to know all the details before you agree to anything. There should be no question in your mind as to what your options are and what the likely outcome is.

You have documented (?) evidence of the failure to fix. Don't forget, MG wants to reduce their costs, not give you the best deal. They are also looking out for  :1: and that isn't you.

If you were to take it farther, MG is on the hook for all legal and court costs too and then it gets very expensive for them, far more than just refunding your money. Consider that.

Its in the art if the deal and their offer might be a starting point, something you should find out. Was it their best, last and final offer?

You probably spent money, expended time and other resources going back and forth that many times. Add it up, that is not a reasonal expectation or cost on your part.

You're only getting one shot at this.

Do you just want to settle or be made whole? Then consider what it cost you above and bryong the purchase price. How long have you had it? Is there a loan you've been paying interest on? Have you needed to arrange for alternate transportation while the bike was in the shop? Take time off work time and time again because they couldn't fix the bike?

What I am saying is to add it all up and then consider the offer. You will have to swallow some but you shouldn't be the one with the trap door underwear in this one.

The art of the deal, indeed. Thanks for the insight. All good.

What I found interesting was that most attorneys didn't even want to touch the case. I have all the documentation. But I'm thinking (guessing) that, because the bike is a "low-cost" vehicle, they may not get as much for the deal. Or as one attorney said, they've plenty of work because of VW.

[DRL]

Was reluctant to say it, in part because he's already got a lawyer, but I'm also a lawyer, and we are in complete agreement.

Thanks. That is how I'm leaning.

[Adan]

First of all, I'd wager that the percentage of lawyers with a good sense of humor is higher than most professions.  Sure, there are those for whom talking to them is like eating a hard boiled egg with nothing to drink.  But the practice of law is so replete with absurdities and irony.  You can't survive if you can't laugh, including at yourself.  That's why it's good grist for good television.

It's a $9,000 motorcycle.  If I couldn't resolve this in a few hours, I wouldn't take the case either.

I've had two V7s and am contemplating getting a third.  On the reliability scale, they are pretty darn impressive as a whole.

I want to see how the V9 pans out in reviews and a test ride, but I'll likely end up with a V7II.

[canuguzzi]

The art of the deal, indeed. Thanks for the insight. All good.

What I found interesting was that most attorneys didn't even want to touch the case. I have all the documentation. But I'm thinking (guessing) that, because the bike is a "low-cost" vehicle, they may not get as much for the deal. Or as one attorney said, they've plenty of work because of VW.

Like many professional services, getting quality service in lower reward jobs is difficult. Same thing happens with health care. Nothing new there.

I just keep in mind that the professional service provider unwilling to answer a few questions is one to stay away from because they'll often be nothing more than self serving.

No one is saying that the client can be tedious or repetitive in asking questions or exploring options but those that are good in their practice know how to answer questions and explain options with a minimum amount of wasted time.

The case might be small, but to whom? While no one wants to make a small case into something it is not, it is only by getting information that one makes good decisions.

That's all, wasn't saying anything more than that because in the end, the client is the one that has to live with the consequences, not the lawyer or doctor.

[JeffOlson]

Since we are derailed anyway... No one needs to hire a lawyer. If you don't want to, then don't. If you have the necessary knowledge, verbal and intellectual ability, as well as detachment, you can represent yourself in court if you would like. It is not like you are performing surgery on yourself under anesthesia.

However, lawyers need to pay rent, utilities, staff wages, student loans, malpractice insurance premiums, etc. if they intend to remain in business. They need to focus on the 20% of their clients who pay 80% of their fees. Small cases can be problematic for lawyers: they make very little money on them, and their clients' expectations can be far out of line with financial reality.

It is astounding to me that people will pay a plumber or an electrician $2,000 for some work around the house (or $4,000 for a builder to install a back door to a garage with some steps leading to the back yard), yet balk at paying much less to a lawyer for his services...

[wymple]

What has the world come to when we start defending lawyers? Somebody change the subject!

[canuguzzi]

Same thing happens all over. The motorcycle owner who sees the shop rates for service as gouging but never factors in that those fees support more than the wages of the tech, they subsidize the entire business too. The rider, who stranded on the road because they change their oil every 2000 miles but hesitates to put in a new battery and then complains about it.

Human nature?

Valuing personal services is hard for some because it isn't a durable good, once rendered the value decreases to zero in their minds.

The OP has a good outcome, at the minimum, he gets a new bike and that bike is a Moto Guzzi. That puts him ahead of most others.

[Kev m]

It is astounding to me that people will pay a plumber or an electrician $2,000 for some work around the house (or $4,000 for a builder to install a back door to a garage with some steps leading to the back yard), yet balk at paying much less to a lawyer for his services...

PAY WHO HOW MUCH FOR WHAT ???   

[JeffOlson]

PAY WHO HOW MUCH FOR WHAT ???   

Me, hiring workers and paying them their wages (promptly, not months or years later).

Continuing my rant: on average, I work (unwillingly) 1.5 to 2.0 months a year for free. No, I do not need to change my business model: I have been doing this for more than 20 years, and the other 10.0 to 10.5 months are good. But it tans my hide nevertheless...

I bet most of you do not realize that lawyers can be made to work for free. There, the cat is out of the bag! Lawyers can withdraw from a court case only with the permission of the court, and sometimes that permission is not granted.

[Kev m]

Again - HOW MUCH FOR AN ELECTRICIAN? FOR A CARPENTER TO INSTALL A GARAGE DOOR AND SOME STEPS ???

WHAT?

[HDGoose]

Go...

and you'll be back. It's a disease.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Go...

and you'll be back. It's a disease.

:1: 

[oldbike54]

 To all of our lawyers ,

                                                                  IT WAS A JOKE 

 Oh , about those wages for plumbers and electricians , they have to carry insurance , some states require a million bucks in liability , then you ad on that the independents must fund their own benefits like vacation and retirement , and if it's so easy , everyone would be doing it .

  Dusty

[slopokes]

I am not a lawyer but I did stay at the 8 days inn(42 years ago)--take the v2 

[canuguzzi]

Again - HOW MUCH FOR AN ELECTRICIAN? FOR A CARPENTER TO INSTALL A GARAGE DOOR AND SOME STEPS ???

WHAT?

Everyone, well almost everyone knows that the carpenters, plumbers and electricians in Orgeon are California transplants and thus charge California rates.

[Lcarlson]

To all of our lawyers ,

                                                                  IT WAS A JOKE  :laugh

  Dusty

No need to,worry, Dusty (although we appreciate the sentiment). Lawyers have thick skins -- it's an occupational requirement....

[pikipiki]

Was reluctant to say it, in part because he's already got a lawyer, but I'm also a lawyer, and we are in complete agreement.

I'm not a lawyer but when you get free advice from two lawyers independently and the advice agrees you should take it.

[oldbike54]

I'm not a lawyer but when you get free advice from two lawyers independently and the advice agrees you should take it.

 Dunno man , kinda sounds like a conspiracy ...  Actually , we have at least three lawyers in agreement here , an almost statistically impossible situation 

 Dusty