Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: LowRyter on April 01, 2016, 07:52:29 PM
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I know many here, particularly those from Scandinavia, believe that the Vikings came to North America (Newfoundland) before Columbus. There have been several archaeological finds that support this theory.
PBS is running a Documentary with some new evidence supporting this notion.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/viking-discovery-canada-satellite_us_56fe36bfe4b0daf53aef5a26
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Another article:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35935725
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Who is Columbus ??
Dusty
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Who is Columbus ??
Dusty
Where is Columbus....Who is on first!
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Where is Columbus....Who is on first!
Yeah , and if you're still waiting on him , well , he was lost and very confused :laugh:
Dusty
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Let's hear it for Little Feat!
(http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/gallery/20121120-littlefeat-x595-1353442849.jpg)
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Y'all would do well to Google the 'Heavener Runestone' .
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been there, Heavener is in Dusty's backyard. He's been known to chisel on rocks.
jus' sayin'
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fantastic, I hope they can follow the trail to Alexandria MN..
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Y'all would do well to Google the 'Heavener Runestone' .
been there, Heavener is in Dusty's backyard. He's been known to chisel on rocks.
jus' sayin'
About that , no the Vikings didn't make it to Heavener , the runes there were actually carved by aliens from (redacted) who were here to visit with (redacted) . Rumor has it that the (redacted) left behind a faster than (redacted) ship that Kirby 1923's aunt kept stored on the ranch in (redacted) for years :shocked:
Dusty
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Everybody knows they made it to Minnisota, they formed a professional football team, and taught brewing skills to the locals.
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Before you guys have an orgasm, this hasn't been verified yet. But it was on the internet!
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Vikings, Phoenicians, Japanese (see Mayan carvings and statues), several waves of immigrants from northeast Asia and dog nose how many other humans were here, definitely or likely, long before Columbus. Hey, I'm waiting for an unequivocal Homo Erectus to be found, or at least Denisovians/Neanderthals.
cr
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Of course the Vikings were in North America long before any other Europeans. This is news because............ .....
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I know many here, particularly those from Scandinavia, believe that the Vikings came to North America (Newfoundland) before Columbus. There have been several archaeological finds that support this theory.
PBS is running a Documentary with some new evidence supporting this notion.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/viking-discovery-canada-satellite_us_56fe36bfe4b0daf53aef5a26
Yes, I've been following this story. Very interesting to me.
I have visited the L'Anse aux meadows Viking site in Northern Newfoundland. Discovering another site further south on the island is not surprising.
This new site is on the southwestern corner of Newfoundland close to the docks for western ferry at Port aux Basques. Been there many times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Anse_aux_Meadows
Also interesting is that the lead researcher/anthropologist is Sarah Parcak from Univ of Alabama Birmingham, not far up the road from me.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/vikings-newfoundland-1.3515747
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No Leafman, the Beothuk(or at least, their ancestors) were the first people in Newfoundland. They were exterminated by the early nineteenth century.
Another fine legacy of European colonialism.
Nick
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No Leafman, the Beothuk(or at least, their ancestors) were the first people in Newfoundland. They were exterminated by the early nineteenth century.
Another fine legacy of European colonialism.
Nick
Yes, I am very familiar with Beothuk and their inhabitation of NL. Still, that doesn't preclude the Norse visiting there and creating settlements.
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No Leafman, the Beothuk(or at least, their ancestors) were the first people in Newfoundland. They were exterminated by the early nineteenth century.
Another fine legacy of European colonialism.
Nick
Good point Nick. Don't get me started about how we civilized white explorers ruined this continent.
Dean
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Yes, I am very familiar with Beothuk and their inhabitation of NL. Still, that doesn't preclude the Norse visiting there and creating settlements.
I know Leafman (and I know that wasn't your intention), but we have to be ever vigilant with our tendency towards Eurocentrism. I read the (outrageously sensationalist and shoddy) internet reports of the new Norse site in southern Newfoundland, to which my reaction was 'well, that took a while'. L'anse aux meadows has been fully authenticated and accepted as a World Heritage Site since the 1970s. It was a no-brainer that there would be other settlements, but with a large land mass, small local population, little land-development pressure and difficult surface vegetation, it took a new approach to find it.
Columbus was confused about where he was, but 'discovered' nothing. People from the Basque country of the northern Iberian peninsula had been whaling and fishing off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador for a hundred years before he turned up. And of course, they were preceded by First Nations people who have been in the Straits of Belle Isle area for about 9500 years - as soon as the glacial ice retreated.
Nick
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There are relicis and stone carvings at our local library. Engraved with the name Magnoc. Parts of a rock fort on the Ohio river and 14 mile creek. Charlestown, Indiana.
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Let's hear it for Little Feat!
(http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/gallery/20121120-littlefeat-x595-1353442849.jpg)
Great album!!!
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Good point Nick. Don't get me started about how we civilized white explorers ruined this continent.
Dean
Don't think we did any better over here ……
Maurie.
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There are relicis and stone carvings at our local library. Engraved with the name Magnoc.
That's sposed to be MGNOC , the engraver was sposed to be keeping the wine too. :evil:
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(http://www.atlantismaps.com/Ch4_images/img_07a.jpg)
Modern map of Antarctica.
(http://www.atlantismaps.com/Ch4_images/img_07b.jpg)
Finé's 1531 depiction of Antarctica with Schöner's portrayal of the Unfortunate Islands added.
This leaves us with one last issue to address, the omission of the Palmer Peninsula, where there are a few possible explanations. First I believe that in a pre-glacial Antarctica, Palmer may have existed as an island, separate from Western Antarctica. The subglacial topography allows for this possibility, which would create a similar arrangement as say Sakhalin to Asia. Schöner's source map may therefore have been a territorial map excluding Palmer Island. It is also possible that Palmer may have been omitted to fit the shape of the skin or other medium it was drawn upon. The Tabula Peutingeriana displayed in the previous post omits the greater part of Africa for this very reason.
http://www.atlantismaps.com/forum/index.php?topic=153.0
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Hieroglyphics Experts Declare Ancient Egyptian Carvings in Australia to be AUTHENTIC
(http://7tales.net/files/144152346724871.jpg)
http://wakeup-world.com/2014/10/14/hieroglyphics-experts-declare-ancient-egyptian-carvings-in-australia-authentic/
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Shush!, a lot of us are still here in Viking Mn area. We have an escape ship hidden in Moorhead. Even with the names out there plain as day the self appointed "experts" havn't figured it out. Don't tell anyone, it's all secret.
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Fuente Magna Bowl
The Fuenta Magna is a large stone vessel, resembling a libation bowl, that was found in 1958 near Lake Titicaca in Bolivia.
(http://img.theepochtimes.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/2014/10/01/fuenta-magna-text-2.jpg)
The two researchers took detailed photographs of the bowl and sent them to epigraphist Dr. Clyde Ahmed Winters, in the hope that he may be able to decipher the inscriptions. Dr. Winters, an ancient languages expert, compared the inscriptions to Libyco-Berber writing used in the Sahara approximately 5,000 years ago. The writing was used by the Proto-Dravidians (of the Indus Valley), Proto-Mande , Proto-Elamites, and Proto-Sumerians. Dr. Winters, in his article “Decipherment of the Cuneiform Writing on the Fuente Magna Bowl,” concluded that the writing on the bowl “was probably Proto-Sumerian,” and offered the following translation:
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/993844-fuente-magna-the-rosetta-stone-of-the-americas/
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The Misissippian culture traded from the North East to modern day New Orleans . Non native artifacts found their way along trade routes used by the culture . In fact , there is some evidence that at least a modicum of trade and a sharing of culture occurred across the entire N.A. continent , and even all the way to the S.A. continent .
Dusty
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The Mystery of Chaco Canyon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRnn7bQh6Zg) :popcorn:
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Good point Nick. Don't get me started about how we civilized white explorers ruined this continent.
Dean
if you want to mention a sad story, what about Squanto?
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Great album!!!
yeah, my favorite live album, especially the extended version......follow ed closely by
(http://www.guitarworld.com/files/imagecache/featured-node/talk.JPG)
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The Misissippian culture traded from the North East to modern day New Orleans . Non native artifacts found their way along trade routes used by the culture . In fact , there is some evidence that at least a modicum of trade and a sharing of culture occurred across the entire N.A. continent , and even all the way to the S.A. continent .
Dusty
I've read that Cahokia was as large as London and Paris during the 13th Cent.
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I've read that Cahokia was as large as London and Paris during the 13th Cent.
Probably . Interesting that by the time Euro explorers came upon the Misissippian culture , it was already mostly gone . There are two sites in Oklahoma , might make a good day trip .
Dusty
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It is very unfortunate there is not more historical data available regarding the past human history of North America. The indigenous people prior to 1400 a.d. left very little written history. Here in Indiana, the bison, crossed the Ohio river into Kentucky to reach the salt flats. The bison made massive trails that lead from Kentucky, across Southern Indiana and into Illinois and points west. The amount of stone tools in the soil is amazing. There are areas with mollusk/oyster shell 4 feet deep from using them as ground cover. The source of food, shelter and animal skins was easy picking. Daniel Boone only had to reach the Kentucky River in his scouting for trails. From that point forward, the buffalo roads were already built. The French took advantage of these trails and charge tolls to pass. Image trying to collect a toll from 2 million bison.
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Good point Nick. Don't get me started about how we civilized white explorers ruined this continent.
Dean
It's dog eat dog . Our dogs won.
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It is very unfortunate there is not more historical data available regarding the past human history of North America. The indigenous people prior to 1400 a.d. left very little written history. Here in Indiana, the bison, crossed the Ohio river into Kentucky to reach the salt flats. The bison made massive trails that lead from Kentucky, across Southern Indiana and into Illinois and points west. The amount of stone tools in the soil is amazing. There are areas with mollusk/oyster shell 4 feet deep from using them as ground cover. The source of food, shelter and animal skins was easy picking. Daniel Boone only had to reach the Kentucky River in his scouting for trails. From that point forward, the buffalo roads were already built. The French took advantage of these trails and charge tolls to pass. Image trying to collect a toll from 2 million bison.
There is no history of them whatsoever. They left nothing, not even the name of their civilization.
Unfortunately, they were a human sacrificial blood cult. I think that historically those type things have a tendency to self-destruct.
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Here is a more balance view of the discoveries in Newfoundland. More caution, less hysterical.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/vikings-newfoundland-1.3515747 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/vikings-newfoundland-1.3515747)
Nick
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"The roasting of the ore could be accidental. All it would take is a camp fire on the ground where the soil is full of bog ore. Such areas are common in Newfoundland," she wrote in an email.
The above is copied from the article.
I think it would take a lot more heat to extract ferrous metal from bog iron. I don't think a campfire would do it. It would need the heat from a fire fed by bellows to be hot enough to extract ore from bog diggings.
If bog iron was found it most certainly means someone knew about pumping air into coals to get enough heat.
I don't believe indigenous tribes had that technology. Other than from trade over long distances, native Americans had no knowledge of iron. Northern Europeans did know how to smelt iron.
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To the best of my knowledge , none of my ancestors possessed the ability to smelt any metals . So , yes , this appears to be a European site . Mostly the N.A. natives never fought wars on the scale that Europeans did , so the need for metallurgy never happened . Now , some of the Central American natives were very accomplished in war .
Dusty
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Iron artifacts have been found in Greenland dating to more than a thousand years ago.
However these when analised are found to have been hammered out of meteors found on the ground.
Besides, a thousand years ago northern Europeans had found Greenland and would have recognized meteoric iron for what it was and known how to work it.
Other than silver and gold, north americans had very little knowledge of metals. These two metals were originally worked without melting them. They were beaten from their ore and beaten into shape.
This could be done with a meteor but probably wasn't until Europeans showed them the value of iron.
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...and that Cristoforo Colombo d00d never "discovered America". He discovered Hispanola and later, Cuba...
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...and that Cristoforo Colombo d00d never "discovered America". He discovered Hispanola and later, Cuba...
Which of course had already been "discovered" by someone else :laugh:
Dusty
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To the best of my knowledge , none of my ancestors possessed the ability to smelt any metals . So , yes , this appears to be a European site . Mostly the N.A. natives never fought wars on the scale that Europeans did , so the need for metallurgy never happened . Now , some of the Central American natives were very accomplished in war .
Dusty
The stuff they did with obsidian alone is scary :laugh:
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Since everyone is getting so technical, America is not limited to North. There is South America occupying a lot of the Americas, and that includes all those islands in the Caribbean.
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And they too were the height of stone age technology, not even having yet entered the bronze age, much less known about iron or steel. Weapons using obsidian were incredibly sharp but not so durable for a long battle. Same with weapons fitted with sharks teeth by Polynesians.
By comparison Zulus and some other African tribes had iron smiths who had forced air forges to hammer out blades and spear points and were very effective wielding them in battle.
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When America was "Discovered", it was filled with Indians. The men hunted and fished by day, smoked, shot the shit and had sex with their wives by night. The woman cooked, cleaned, took care of the kids, did the laundry, by day fed and had sex with their husbands by night. And the white man thought he could improve on that set up??
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Since everyone is getting so technical, America is not limited to North. There is South America occupying a lot of the Americas, and that includes all those islands in the Caribbean.
Pretty certain we have mentioned at least Central America . Still , truth is , old Chris was lost . If he hadn't had a very good publicist to clean things up a bit ...and even at that , folks were already inhabiting the Americas , so what did he discover ?
Dusty
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Here is a more balance view of the discoveries in Newfoundland. More caution, less hysterical.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/vikings-newfoundland-1.3515747 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/vikings-newfoundland-1.3515747)
Nick
Yes, that's a better report. It's the same one I posted earlier.
.
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OK fellas , let's not turn a discussion about history into a political rant . Thanks .
Dusty
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I think that the significance of this, if the archeologists are correct, is the proximity of the site to Cape Breton Island. If the Vikings got as far south as the Port aux Basques area, it's more than possible that they got from there to Cape Breton, and from Cape Breton to the mainland.
The principal evidence is apparently evidence of use of iron, in which case the only plausible alternate explanation is Basques. If it turns out to be Basques, that in itself would be an important discovery.
The BBC story is the best, but says nothing about carbon dating tests, which would presumably be helpful.
P.S. As far as I know, earlier comments about the Beotuk are misinformed on many levels, including when the Beotuk arrived in Newfoundland and what happened when Europeans arrived. Pity that a potentially important discovery about Norse exploration a thousand years ago has to be leveraged to make a political point that has nothing to do with this discovery.
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The Vikings had cooler boats.
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The Vikings had cooler boats.
There's going to be a Viking ship sailing from Norway to North America in May: http://www.drakenexpeditionamerica.com
But it is not going to be an exact replica, no doubt because a replica would be unseaworthy by modern standards.
Similarly, there were major modernizations to the replica of John Cabot's Matthew that sailed from the UK to North America in 1997.
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"what did he discover ? "
A good supply of slave labor
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Before you guys have an orgasm, this hasn't been verified yet. But it was on the internet!
The World Heritage site at L'anse Aux Medows has been verified. It's the new site on the other side of The Rock that is currently under investigation.
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This thread has degenerated into an "evil European/blessed native culture" rant. I wouldn't begin to get into that whole argument. You're going to believe what you want to believe. However- it clearly politics and has has ruined the thread.
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Indiana Legend Says Welsh Settlers Arrived in the 12th Century
September 03, 1989|JODI PERRAS | Associated Press
CHARLESTOWN, Ind. — On a rugged bluff overlooking the Ohio River, known locally as "Devil's Backbone," centuries of overgrowth obscures a secret of history.
Legend has it that this was the site of a large stone fort and a settlement of Welshmen who sailed to America three centuries before the time of Christopher Columbus.
In 1799, early settlers found six skeletons clad in breastplates bearing a Welsh coat of arms. Indian legends told of "yellow-haired giants" who settled in Kentucky, southern Indiana, southern Ohio and Tennessee--a region they called "the Dark and Forbidden Land."
Archeologists debunk the legend. They say that evidence indicates that the natives of the region once conducted a vigorous trading network nearby and buried their dead on the bluff.
The earliest survey of the area, done in 1873 by state geologist E. T. Cox and his assistant, William Borden, found a prehistoric fortification on the hilltop. A man-made limestone wall, 150 feet long and 75 feet high in some places, stood along the front and one side of the hill where the cliffs could be scaled, Cox said in his report.
The wall no longer exists, the area's early settlers having taken the huge, unmortared stones to build foundations, bridges and fences that can still be seen throughout the rolling countryside.
Local legend says the walls were built by followers of Prince Madoc of Wales, who led an expedition in the late 12th Century and was never seen again. Tradition says they landed in America and settled briefly in Tennessee, then moved to Kentucky and southern Indiana.
Olson's book says that Madoc was a son of King Owain Gwynedd and was one of his best naval commanders. Madoc's skills and curiosity took him to France and Spain and to Venice and other Mediterranean ports--and on at least two trips to the Americas between 1165 and 1169.
When Gwynedd died in 1169, his sons got into a feud over the throne. A disgusted Madoc, looking for more tranquil surroundings, sailed from Lundy Island south of Wales with three of his brothers and 10 ships.
They are named among the missing in Britain's ancient maritime logs.
Legend says they landed in Mobile Bay in 1170 and traveled up the Alabama River to where it meets the Coosa River, near present-day Alabama's borders with Georgia and Tennessee.
According to Cherokee tradition, they settled there and intermarried with the Indians, and built five stone forts near what is now Chattanooga. Treasure hunters have found Roman coins, European oil lamps and goblets among the ruins, Olson says.
Fort Laid to Indians
Excavations conducted by the anthropology department at the University of Tennessee concluded that one of the structures, known as Old Stone Fort, was built in the 3rd Century by an Indian culture that would have predated Madoc.
No Welsh artifacts were found to substantiate the persistent Madoc legend.
"In professional archeological circles, it's kind of pooh-poohed," Steve Cox, curator of the Tennessee State Museum, said. "There's no archeological evidence. That's really all that we have to go on in the prehistoric period."
The legend says the Welsh-Indians were forced out of Tennessee by the Cherokee and migrated north into Kentucky and the Ohio River Valley by three separate routes.
Prince Madoc is believed to have been born at Dowyddlan Castle between 1134-1142 A.D. His father was Owain Gwynedd who ruled Wales from 1137 until his death in 1169 A.D. Prince Madoc was reputed to be a brilliant naval commander during his father's reign, using his men and ships tactfully to repulse or devastate the seaward invasions that were sent by King Henry II. Julius Caesar had reported that the Welsh used large ships and were skilled navigators. Celtic vessels were able to travel on the open ocean and were far superior to Caesar's own Roman fleet.
Madoc supposedly made three expeditions to the Americas, reaching the South American coast sometime around 1165. Madoc's last expedition left Wales in the year 1170 and this voyage was recorded as lost at sea in the ancient maritime log of missing ships of Britain in 1171.
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There's going to be a Viking ship sailing from Norway to North America in May: http://www.drakenexpeditionamerica.com
But it is not going to be an exact replica, no doubt because a replica would be unseaworthy by modern standards.
Similarly, there were major modernizations to the replica of John Cabot's Matthew that sailed from the UK to North America in 1997.
The Hjemkomst of Robert Asp was sailed from Duluth, mn to Bergin Norway in the 70's.. hand built by himself in Hawley MN. launched 200 miles away in Lake Superior. This man was fascinating! He died before the sail but his kids and others finished the dream.. here's a great old documentary if you have 30 minutes,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ggfvk0NBt8
the ship is now on display in Morehead, Mn.
It's not the first replica to cross the Atlantic, one sailed from Norway to America in 1893!
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This thread has degenerated into an "evil European/blessed native culture" rant. I wouldn't begin to get into that whole argument. You're going to believe what you want to believe. However- it clearly politics and has has ruined the thread.
Culture isn't politics. I haven't seen what you see clearly, but if one of the mods does see it, we'll delete it.
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Researchers find a rock with a carving of a Mastodon at the underwater Stonehenge of Lake Michigan
Another incredible discovery has been made as researchers have found a rock carving of a Mastodon at the underwater Stonehenge of Lake Michigan.
In 2007, at a depth of twelve meters, researchers found a peculiar set of aligned stones that are believed to be over 10,000 years old.
While searching for shipwrecks, archaeologists from the Northwestern Michigan College came across something interesting at the bottom of lake Michigan. They found mysteriously aligned rocks placed there by ancient man before the area was covered with water. When the discovery was made, researchers couldn’t believe what they were seeing. It’s America’s Stonehenge.
(http://i0.wp.com/www.ancient-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/cc.png)
(http://i0.wp.com/www.ancient-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/11111.png)
https://manvsarchaeology.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/researchers-find-a-rock-with-a-carving-of-a-mastodon-at-the-underwater-stonehenge-of-lake-michigan/
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Thanks, maybe I laid a political turd on it which was deleted. It was an article on how the brain worked in the area of politics but I'd rather talk about when the first Europeans got to North America!
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I said this before , let's keep this about history and leave politics out of it . Interesting thread , really don't want to nuke it . Thanks .
Dusty
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Many Native American tribes from the Northeast and Southwest still relate the legends of the red-haired giants and how their ancestors fought terrible, protracted wars against the giants when they first encountered them in North America almost 15,000 years ago.
Others, like the Aztecs and Mayans recorded their encounters with a race of giants to the north when they ventured out on exploratory expeditions.
Who were these red-haired giants that history books have ignored? Their burial sites and remains have been discovered on nearly every continent.
In the United States they have been unearthed in Virginia and New York state, Michigan, Illinois and Tennessee, Arizona and Nevada.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BKuCB14wCqI/Ux8SRNHMHmI/AAAAAAAAQYI/P4I00k8NWbE/s1600/giant+skeletons-Nephilim-Lovelock+skull-west+virginia.jpg)
Skull of one of the red haired giants from Lovelock Cave in Nevada. Note the protruding brow ridge and developed occipital. These two skull traits are diagnostic of early Indo European skulls.
Nevada’s Mysterious Cave of The Red-Haired Giants (https://ironlight.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/nevadas-mysterious-cave-of-the-red-haired-giants/)
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Sorry , that is nothing more than a legend .
Dusty
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Sorry , that is nothing more than a legend .
Dusty
:popcorn:
The Catastrophe Of 12,000 Years Ago That Erased History (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoSbF1EbOFM)
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:popcorn:
The Catastrophe Of 12,000 Years Ago That Erased History (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoSbF1EbOFM)
One more myth .
Dusty
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The Mystery of Chaco Canyon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRnn7bQh6Zg) :popcorn:
I was there last October- great experience. The stonework is phenomenal!
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh62/boatdetective/chaco_zpsivd5xwyk.jpg) (http://s253.photobucket.com/user/boatdetective/media/chaco_zpsivd5xwyk.jpg.html)
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I don't know about a comet but there was a huge flood from the great lake in the American midwest that flooded much much of the North America and Europe after the ice dam burst.
It flooded the English Channel and the Black Sea.
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I don't know about a comet but there was a huge flood from the great lake in the American midwest that flooded much much of the North America and Europe after the ice dam burst.
It flooded the English Channel and the Black Sea.
No doubt Mother Nature is capable of some incredible things , but she isn't trying to sell books that tell stories not based in reality .
Dusty
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Have been to Mesa Verde and Canyon de Chay, Chaco is on my bucket list. Fascinating places.
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I believe Leif Erikson, the son of Erik the Red stumbled upon Newfoundland around 1000 AD. He left Greenland, got lost, and ended up there, though he didn't really know where "there" was. They've found evidence of the Viking boats "there", dating to that time, as well as a few markings in stone...
-Cliffy the mailman...
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When the internet first became a big deal, many educators (like me) were hopeful that it might be a great tool to help bring different peoples of the world together by making fundamental information about history and other areas of knowledge available to a very wide audience, and that this common knowledge might provide a means of improving understanding among us. However, on the contrary, it has enabled people with crazy ideas and conspiracy theories to contact other sympathetic nut-cases to verify that their outlandish notions do have merit.
Jon
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the facts ma'am just the facts......
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the facts ma'am just the facts......
Or at least a theory based on some rational thought :shocked: I once told a guy that had been badgering me for months about area 51 that the USAF did in fact have several UFOs and had been running an alien captive breeding program for years . Fact is , I never got near area 51 , so like everyone else , dunno :laugh: Some of the lunacy is my fault :evil:
PS , Luap had a higher clearance than me , but he ain't talking :rolleyes:
Dusty
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Okay, we may as well keep kicking this ball on down the road.
Look up Prince Madoc and read about him-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoc
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Another unsupported piece of mythology . First off , how would Madoc have known where he was , and second , this is based on the idea that the natives of what is now Central and North America were incapable of forming advanced societies .
Dusty
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It seems that a lot of wilder theories are strung together by a series of odd bits of coincidental factoids.
In this particular case, I'd start off by trying to establish whether the Welsh had the boat building and navigational tradition to pull this off. The Vikings certainly had this down in spades. From all I know, the Britons/Celts/etc of the time only had coastal craft.
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Another unsupported piece of mythology . First off , how would Madoc have known where he was , and second , this is based on the idea that the natives of what is now Central and North America were incapable of forming advanced societies .
Dusty
Dusty, you close minded heathen. It's in Wikipedia- it must be true.
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Dusty, you close minded heathen. It's in Wikipedia- it must be true.
Madoc probably existed , and maybe he found the Isle of Man :laugh: But , like Babe Ruth never pointed out the exact trajectory of a homerun , Madoc didn't find Mexico and establish the Aztec cullture :laugh:
Dusty
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Many Native American tribes from the Northeast and Southwest still relate the legends of the red-haired giants and how their ancestors fought terrible, protracted wars against the giants when they first encountered them in North America almost 15,000 years ago.
...
Note the protruding brow ridge and developed occipital. These two skull traits are diagnostic of early Indo European skulls.
Guido Valvole is waiting for a Neanderthal sighting, so ... for you! The Neanderthal was all about protruding brow ridge and big occipital region, they were fairly big and they were apex predators in at least parts of their range, so I reckon they would have been real tough customers. And yes - they had red hair! or at least, some of them apparently did.
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I was there last October- great experience. The stonework is phenomenal!
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh62/boatdetective/chaco_zpsivd5xwyk.jpg) (http://s253.photobucket.com/user/boatdetective/media/chaco_zpsivd5xwyk.jpg.html)
That is one of the coolest places I have ever visited anywhere on this earth. Phenomenal.
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Modern day Newfies are very colourful people!! Great storytellers too! :thumb: :thumb:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/st%20john_zpsys2zffag.jpg)
St. John
:boozing:
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Modern day Newfies are very colourful people!! Great storytellers too! :thumb: :thumb:
St. John
:boozing:
Not sure what this has to do with Vikings, but...
What you're saying is precisely the image sold to tourists and ignores the facts that young people continue to leave Newfoundland in droves, that the general level of education is abysmal, and that xenophobia, outside St. John's and arguably Corner Brook, is rampant.
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Nope.
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Okay, we may as well keep kicking this ball on down the road.
Look up Prince Madoc and read about him-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoc
I mentioned this earlier. There would be a good reason for the travelers to stay in this location. The Falls of the Ohio was a natural land bridge for the buffalo. The buffalo traveled thru this area by the millions. Plenty of fish, oysters, buffalo, hugh hardwood trees, limestone out cropping, caves and water. There are various artifacts on display in the local library and the Falls of the Ohio State Park museum. Along with the large rocks used for building construction.
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Modern day Newfies are very colourful people!! Great storytellers too! :thumb: :thumb:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/st%20john_zpsys2zffag.jpg)
St. John
:boozing:
That picture brings back memories. That's The Battery area on the harbor entrance, called The Narrows, just below Signal Hill at St. John's NL, the capital.
The view from this area is breath-taking. One way, you see St. Johns and the port, the other way, you see the Atlantic ocean.
When the Titanic sunk, many of the survivors came into this harbor.
On The Narrows, just above the houses at The Battery. In the background is St. John's and the docks.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Newfoundland/2257790-R1-013-5.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Newfoundland/2257790-R1-013-5.jpg.html)
This is the view out to the Atlantic. The houses are to the right and below. You can see one in the frame.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Newfoundland/2257790-R1-029-13.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Newfoundland/2257790-R1-029-13.jpg.html)
This is a view from the atop The Battery, near Signal Hill, looking south across The Narrows at Fort Amherst.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Newfoundland/2257790-R1-045-21.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Newfoundland/2257790-R1-045-21.jpg.html)
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Beautiful, David.. thanks!
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Very interesting. On the lighter side history never really mentions the drinking problem Columbus had.
When he left he didn't know where he was going.
When he got there he didn't know where he was.
When he got back he didn't know where he'd been,
and a woman paid for the whole thing.
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To include some Guzzi content and as the Americas have already been discovered (by Eric the Red ofcourse), I wondered if we have any Erics on here discovered a Red Guzzi?
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Hmm, love archeology of North America.
Vikings with their superb ships definitely got around, and lots of capability to penetrate inland on rivers.
Someone mentioned Chaco? This is home turf for me. A few years ago I camped a couple nights there (drove in rental mustang). Chaco, to me, is the holy grail of Anasazi culture, the epicenter. Go check out Chimney Rock, in Colorado for another superb experience, views and ruins. It is a Chaco outlier.
When growing up in Durango, CO I found arrowheads, and some Anasazi pottery in our backyard, and down the hill in an old glacial outflow lake remainder. There are ruins and pictographs all over the place, if you know where to look. My elementary school in Durango, when built in the 1950s tripped on multiple Anasazi and later Ute burial grounds: caused quite an issue. Remains were moved after blessings of Southern and Mountain Ute tribes. The playground was built right on top of the site, and yes we found pottery here and there.
To me, the really exciting archeology is shallow marine areas where now submerged civilizations have remains. Sea level has risen steadily the past 30,000 years with glacial cycles. Sooner or later there will be an astounding discovery. When we lived in Tunis, Tunisia, the old Roman naval port remains could be viewed, and the docks are now all submerged about eight feet under. They were occupied from the original Carthaginian naval base built BC 300 or so. There are punic and Phoenician bases all throughout the Mediterranean at good anchorage points, each about a two day sail spaced, with fresh water (at the time). Climate change in North Africa has silted up, and dried out most original sources of fresh water. Lots of change in 2000 years....
I could go on and on....
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Low Ryter and Cool Runnings -- when the glacial ice melted in a big way around 10-12,000 years ago it produced massive floods very quickly, at least in North America. Maybe filled in the Mediterranean also? Thereby giving birth to lots of legends around the world. Lots of evidence in the Scablands of Eastern Washington and Oregon.
I'm not familiar with Lovelock Cave, but the skull's brow ridges look within normal for current humans. Shapes vary plenty. Neanderthals were, if I'm remembering correctly, rather short and wide, 3/4-scale football linemen. And not a "different species" since they and "modern" H. Sap interbred successfully, just a different body type.
Given damage done by glaciation we'll probably never know what was happening in the Western Hemisphere during previous interglacial periods. Or the rest of the world for that matter, outside of the tropics and Australia. So it's open season for conjecture and fantasy :popcorn:.
cr
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Low Ryter and Cool Runnings -- when the glacial ice melted in a big way around 10-12,000 years ago it produced massive floods very quickly, at least in North America. Maybe filled in the Mediterranean also? Thereby giving birth to lots of legends around the world. Lots of evidence in the Scablands of Eastern Washington and Oregon.
I'm not familiar with Lovelock Cave, but the skull's brow ridges look within normal for current humans. Shapes vary plenty. Neanderthals were, if I'm remembering correctly, rather short and wide, 3/4-scale football linemen. And not a "different species" since they and "modern" H. Sap interbred successfully, just a different body type.
Given damage done by glaciation we'll probably never know what was happening in the Western Hemisphere during previous interglacial periods. Or the rest of the world for that matter, outside of the tropics and Australia. So it's open season for conjecture and fantasy :popcorn:.
cr
the story goes that there was a huge lake in the midwestern US. Several times bigger than the great lakes. This lake was a remnant of the Ice Age. This water was held in place by an ice dam that broke about 7500 years BC and flooded into the Atlantic. It flooded the midwest and eastern seaboard, on to the Atlantic and Mediterranean. It flooded the English Channel and even the Caspian Sea.
I don't think this is speculative.
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John, pretty close to what I read long ago. Pleistocene glaciers held *a lot* of water and a lot of mass. The ground is still rising.
Another book I read 25 years ago when we were supposed to fear the coming Ice Age noted that there were exceptionally warm periods just before the end of some previous interglacials...
cr
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Low Ryter and Cool Runnings -- when the glacial ice melted in a big way around 10-12,000 years ago it produced massive floods very quickly, at least in North America. Maybe filled in the Mediterranean also? Thereby giving birth to lots of legends around the world. Lots of evidence in the Scablands of Eastern Washington and Oregon.
I'm not familiar with Lovelock Cave, but the skull's brow ridges look within normal for current humans. Shapes vary plenty. Neanderthals were, if I'm remembering correctly, rather short and wide, 3/4-scale football linemen. And not a "different species" since they and "modern" H. Sap interbred successfully, just a different body type.
Given damage done by glaciation we'll probably never know what was happening in the Western Hemisphere during previous interglacial periods. Or the rest of the world for that matter, outside of the tropics and Australia. So it's open season for conjecture and fantasy :popcorn:.
cr
Funny how the archaeologists figure we walked over the Bering Strait, wouldn't it have been a whole lot easier to use boats? :popcorn:
Another thing, archaeologists/ biological anthropology refuse to investigate the paracas skulls and other elongated skulls found by many megalithic sites. They simply claim 'head binding'. They are left out of the study of human evolution. Look at the carvings/ statues of Akhenaten/ Nefertiti. Not normal looking humans. The idea we are hybrids created by a superior race of beings is considered heresy. Also the word God is a translation from Elohim (flesh and blood beings). In the Bible EL is translated as God. Elohim is the plural form of EL.
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CR- I enjoy the "Ancient Aliens" show. I am not saying it's real, and some of it is plain stupid, but there are some thought provoking ideas.
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CR- I enjoy the "Ancient Aliens" show. I am not saying it's real, and some of it is plain stupid, but there are some thought provoking ideas.
Ever heard of the 'Sumerian King List'. :popcorn:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_King_List
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Ever heard of JRR Tolkien ?
Dusty
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Ever heard of JRR Tolkien ?
Dusty
I take it your an atheist. :boozing:
(http://cube-it.webs.com/Cross%20Cube%20Tesseract.jpg)
~ over and out.............
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You guys ever watch Scott Walker on Discovery Channel, a retired geologist who goes all over the place trying to find evidence to prove others discovered N. America before Columbus did? He doesn't just claim it he finds evidence and maps it all out. Of course naysayers challenge his conclusions.
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Everybody knows they made it to Minnisota, they formed a professional football team, and taught brewing skills to the locals.
Rural (as opposed to urban) legend says that the settler kids played on the ruins of a Viking ship in Ulen until time and water took it away.
It may have been a funny tree...it may be notable.
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My best friend is a Newfie. :thumb:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/newfies-what-i-really-do-meme_zpsbcmrqkzr.jpg) :boozing:
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This thread has ranged from a report on a possible find of a Viking site in Newfoundland - information released far too early in the process, and a fine example of aggressive publicity trumping common sense and good judgement (and we see plenty of that these days) - through the Great Flood, Aliens, Giants and other crypto-archaeology. It's so easy to jump from A to Z without bothering with all the stuff in-between.
For example, I once had a gentleman excitedly explain to me that a particular hill in Ontario was almost certainly man-made and likely to contain a Celtic burial - perhaps with the remains of Curragh, or maybe a chariot, or God-knows-what. Perhaps it was Viking too - as he was sure that the Vikings had made it to central Ontario, having taken the time to venture far inland, presumably hauling their heavy boats far from any easily navigable waterways, just to be able to incise a petroglyph of what looks like a sailboat (but isn't) on a piece of rock at the Peterborough Petroglyph site. He really wanted someone to dig into that hill and find out what it contained.
Almost certainly what it contained was rocks. He had failed to do even the most basic background research. If he had, he would have realised that his man-made hill was actually one of a series of glacial drumlins. He would also have spent a micro-second or two figuring out the amount of human effort required to raise a hill of that extent, and that there would inevitably have had to have been work camps, quarries, track-ways and all the other stuff that goes along with any major human enterprise. It was a bit more work than a few guys in a skin boat could manage -unless they had Merlin with them :wink:. He might have thought that during however long it took to raise the mound, someone might have dropped a single Celtic or Viking artifact along the way which could have supported his argument. Did he think this through? Of course he didn't.
Archaeological explanations of human activity are generally not based on speculation and wishful thinking. Mysterious alignments of rocks, apparent ancient script in the middle of nowhere, miscellaneous finds of ancient out-of-place artifacts (such as the Beardmore Viking relics - look it up!) almost always have a perfectly rational explanation.
Real archaeological research takes time, effort and builds on reliable information acquired under reliable circumstances. It does not fabricate exotic theories then try to work out ways to prove them. In the crypto-archaeological world, 'real' archaeologists are always cast as stick-in-the-muds, desperately trying to maintain their tenure and working hard to silence those with differing opinions, who have seen the light and know the 'truth'.
In fact, they're just tired of having to deal with flakes, misfits, the ignorant, the lazy, and the kind of people who would rather get a half hour spot on the History Channel or sell a book than wrestle with real information, reliable context and demonstrable data.
And on that note, if you want to get a glimpse into the life of 'real' archaeology, you can buy my book :evil::
Nick
(http://www.adamsheritage.info/images/Arch_Cover_for_Kindle.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/ARCHAEOLOGY-Life-Trenches-Golden-Crystal/dp/1530449669 (http://www.amazon.com/ARCHAEOLOGY-Life-Trenches-Golden-Crystal/dp/1530449669)
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This thread has ranged from a report on a possible find of a Viking site in Newfoundland - information released far too early in the process, and a fine example of aggressive publicity trumping common sense and good judgement (and we see plenty of that these days) - through the Great Flood, Aliens, Giants and other crypto-archaeology. It's so easy to jump from A to Z without bothering with all the stuff in-between.
For example, I once had a gentleman excitedly explain to me that a particular hill in Ontario was almost certainly man-made and likely to contain a Celtic burial - perhaps with the remains of Curragh, or maybe a chariot, or God-knows-what. Perhaps it was Viking too - as he was sure that the Vikings had made it to central Ontario, having taken the time to venture far inland, presumably hauling their heavy boats far from any easily navigable waterways, just to be able to incise a petroglyph of what looks like a sailboat (but isn't) on a piece of rock at the Peterborough Petroglyph site. He really wanted someone to dig into that hill and find out what it contained.
Almost certainly what it contained was rocks. He had failed to do even the most basic background research. If he had, he would have realised that his man-made hill was actually one of a series of glacial drumlins. He would also have spent a micro-second or two figuring out the amount of human effort required to raise a hill of that extent, and that there would inevitably have had to have been work camps, quarries, track-ways and all the other stuff that goes along with any major human enterprise. It was a bit more work than a few guys in a skin boat could manage -unless they had Merlin with them :wink:. He might have thought that during however long it took to raise the mound, someone might have dropped a single Celtic or Viking artifact along the way which could have supported his argument. Did he think this through? Of course he didn't.
Archaeological explanations of human activity are generally not based on speculation and wishful thinking. Mysterious alignments of rocks, apparent ancient script in the middle of nowhere, miscellaneous finds of ancient out-of-place artifacts (such as the Beardmore Viking relics - look it up!) almost always have a perfectly rational explanation.
Real archaeological research takes time, effort and builds on reliable information acquired under reliable circumstances. It does not fabricate exotic theories then try to work out ways to prove them. In the crypto-archaeological world, 'real' archaeologists are always cast as stick-in-the-muds, desperately trying to maintain their tenure and working hard to silence those with differing opinions, who have seen the light and know the 'truth'.
In fact, they're just tired of having to deal with flakes, misfits, the ignorant, the lazy, and the kind of people who would rather get a half hour spot on the History Channel or sell a book than wrestle with real information, reliable context and demonstrable data.
And on that note, if you want to get a glimpse into the life of 'real' archaeology, you can buy my book :evil::
Nick
(http://www.adamsheritage.info/images/Arch_Cover_for_Kindle.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/ARCHAEOLOGY-Life-Trenches-Golden-Crystal/dp/1530449669 (http://www.amazon.com/ARCHAEOLOGY-Life-Trenches-Golden-Crystal/dp/1530449669)
Part of the problem I see is "Big Government". It is common place for "the government" to step in when artifacts are found. It is a bittersweet situation because those wanting a project stopped use relics and those that want to complete the project hide the relics from the public.
Case in point. I live in Indian country. There are artifacts in every shovel full of dirt and cemetery's on nearly every property grant in my County. Many places have been shut off from development when "things" have been found. The street in front of my house is an original road from pre American days. "The Government" is spending $9 million to repair the hill in front of my home and put turning lanes in. When ask at a community meeting about artifacts, the question was ignored and we were told straight up that there will be no research into the artifacts that are know to exist. Good or Bad, I don't know.
As far as Viking stacking rocks and leaving thing lying around, apparently they did in Southern Indiana or someone spent many days carving and stacking very large rocks on top of the hill at 14 Mile Creek.
I think the time perspective is over looked when it comes to human efforts. Keeping life in perspective of the times is hard to do. Today We fill our days with many activities that were not know in the past. Humans had and lived their lives doing much different things all day than we do today. To sit and carve a rock with a few characters of images would not seem out of the ordinary in the past. Now days, if I told some one I spent the last three days carving my name and a scary face into a 3 foot diameter rock I chiseled out of a hillside a mile away, I would be called nuts.
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Nick , damnit , haven't we had the talk about not interjecting facts and reality into a discussion about , well , almost anything :shocked: :grin: You scientists and the need for proof can always screw up a perfectly good thread containing wild conspiracy theories and a bit of speculation by folks that think the Boston Celtics are actually Celtic . Hell , the basketball team isn't even pronounced correctly , what is a Seltic anyway . (Yeah yeah , I know the argument for the soft C , although it isn't convincing) :evil: :evil:
Dusty
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I watched a replay of the PBS / NOVA "Vikings Unearthed" show Tuesday Night.
Very interesting.
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I watched a replay of the PBS / NOVA "Vikings Unearthed" show Tuesday Night.
Very interesting.
Did it mention the lost Viking treasure over here in the Illinois River , or maybe it was lost in the Arkansas . Wait , maybe that was the Conquistadors that lost the barrel full of gold in Oklahoma :shocked:
Dusty
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I watched a replay of the PBS / NOVA "Vikings Unearthed" show Tuesday Night.
Very interesting.
more than very interesting! lots of facts and finds to proove the second site..
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Part of the problem I see is "Big Government". It is common place for "the government" to step in when artifacts are found. It is a bittersweet situation because those wanting a project stopped use relics and those that want to complete the project hide the relics from the public.
Case in point. I live in Indian country. There are artifacts in every shovel full of dirt and cemetery's on nearly every property grant in my County. Many places have been shut off from development when "things" have been found. The street in front of my house is an original road from pre American days. "The Government" is spending $9 million to repair the hill in front of my home and put turning lanes in. When ask at a community meeting about artifacts, the question was ignored and we were told straight up that there will be no research into the artifacts that are know to exist. Good or Bad, I don't know.
As far as Viking stacking rocks and leaving thing lying around, apparently they did in Southern Indiana or someone spent many days carving and stacking very large rocks on top of the hill at 14 Mile Creek.
I think the time perspective is over looked when it comes to human efforts. Keeping life in perspective of the times is hard to do. Today We fill our days with many activities that were not know in the past. Humans had and lived their lives doing much different things all day than we do today. To sit and carve a rock with a few characters of images would not seem out of the ordinary in the past. Now days, if I told some one I spent the last three days carving my name and a scary face into a 3 foot diameter rock I chiseled out of a hillside a mile away, I would be called nuts.
I'm glad that you have a state department which takes its cultural heritage seriously and acts to preserve or record archaeological sites when they are in jeopardy. However, if they are doing their job properly, the remains will have been found, identified and managed long before any construction occurs.
Sooner or later (probably later) North America's recent (ie. non-Native) immigrants (yep - that's all us whitish and brown folks) will wake up and recognise that human history is far more interesting and valuable when people cease to think of it as 'our history' and 'their history'.
I always try to assume the best, so perhaps the archaeological information available from the area of the hill in front of your home has been evaluated and some cost / benefit analysis been applied to the archaeological resources. It's important to realise that archaeology isn't just about digging up artifacts. Any cretin can do that - and many of them do. Artifacts only have value when they can be studied in their context: the environment in which they were deposited. From an arrowhead on it's own in a field, we can only get an approximate age (by seriation), and a broad geographical context. But an arrowhead found in a storage pit along with pieces of pottery or food remains, or preserved in the soil of a dwelling living floor, tells us far more about the lives and activities of the people who made it.
You live in "Indian Country" but when was the last time you saw an "Indian". From what I just looked up, less than 0.5% of Indiana's population is comprised of indigenous people. There are reasons for that: disease, warfare, deliberate extermination, removal. The "artifacts in every shovel full of dirt and cemetery's on nearly every property" that you mention are direct evidence of the huge population of of Native Americans who occupied those lands in the past. Before looking for European rock-pilers, I would evaluate the most obvious evidence first.
As far as Viking, Madoc or some lost band of Welshmen erecting a massive stone fence along the bluff at 14 Mile Creek, you can have my left testicle if you can demonstrate, beyond reasonable doubt, that it can be attributed to any of these people. Data and evidence are necessary ingredients, not speculation, legend and myth.
I agree that many people had time in abundance in the past. But while expending all that time, they had to live somewhere, eat food, cook meals, break tools, drop garbage, occupy dwellings, fornicate, die and be buried. All these things (well, perhaps excepting fornication) leave traces in the ground for archaeologists to investigate and record. So please tell me when the local archaeological society or university anthropology department finds the Welsh or Viking work camp for the people who erected those stones. I'd be interested to see the broken fragments of wheel-thrown early Medieval pottery and discarded iron tools they undoubtedly would have left behind.
I suspect they are far more likely to find a large First Nations settlement close by: probably relating to the Hopewell or Fort Ancient cultures.
In dealing with the past, it's always best to remember and apply Occam's razor - the simplest explanation is almost always the best.
Nick
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Nick , damnit , haven't we had the talk about not interjecting facts and reality into a discussion about , well , almost anything :shocked: :grin: You scientists and the need for proof can always screw up a perfectly good thread containing wild conspiracy theories and a bit of speculation by folks that think the Boston Celtics are actually Celtic . Hell , the basketball team isn't even pronounced correctly , what is a Seltic anyway . (Yeah yeah , I know the argument for the soft C , although it isn't convincing) :evil: :evil:
Dusty
So moderator, are you saying nothing posted on this forum is to be taken seriously and it's all just a big joke? It's all just a BS session no matter the subject matter?
If so, sorry, I had no idea. I actually thought people here wanted to learn factual things they didn't know. Just because you don't believe in all the things some others believe in doesn't mean you are right and they are bonkers, it means they might know something you don't yet. Don't be so smug in your own beliefs.
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(https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-mzCXtmj/1/X2/Duck-X2.jpg)
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Wayne , what I am saying is that I believe our boy Nick who has spent the last 45 years digging in the dirt and getting paid to do so , rather than some amateur with a theory based on faulty data . The Vikings left behind no evidence of having ever been in Ohio or Indiana despite some piled up rocks . The idea that the Native Americans were incapable of building with rocks is not only ludicrous , but , in your words , "smug" There is a fake runestone about 75 miles from where I live , that no matter how many scientists have proved is only about 120 years old the locals , and some hucksters continue to insist it is authentic because , well , it makes them money .
Dusty
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Nick,
Please give me your address and I can send you a gun. You are probably ready to blow your head off about now.
Folks- let's listen to the professional in the room. As the saying goes: "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. "
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Columbus was the last man to discover America.
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Does anyone remember when the Discovery Channel (and National Geographic, Learning Channel, etc.) used to actually show REAL documentaries? Back when network news was real and CNN was a joke? (and CNN is even worse now)
Back when MTV was MTV?
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K9bQ8XvK1R0/VLHl0KyU-eI/AAAAAAAAMoc/23s75e-qEZA/s1600/mtvflag.gif)
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Yes , and when they stopped making sense there was no more cable in the house . PBS still does pretty good work , a bargain for a small donation every year .
Dusty
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Yes , and when they stopped making sense there was no more cable in the house . PBS still does pretty good work , a bargain for a small donation every year .
Dusty
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02126/daviddyrne_2126404i.jpg)
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(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02126/daviddyrne_2126404i.jpg)
Very good catch John :bow:
Dusty
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(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02126/daviddyrne_2126404i.jpg)
The big suit.
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Wayne , what I am saying is that I believe our boy Nick who has spent the last 45 years digging in the dirt and getting paid to do so , rather than some amateur with a theory based on faulty data . The Vikings left behind no evidence of having ever been in Ohio or Indiana despite some piled up rocks . The idea that the Native Americans were incapable of building with rocks is not only ludicrous , but , in your words , "smug" There is a fake runestone about 75 miles from where I live , that no matter how many scientists have proved is only about 120 years old the locals , and some hucksters continue to insist it is authentic because , well , it makes them money .
Dusty
Dusty, right now Nick isn't the only person claiming the Vikings may have been here way before Columbus via a satellite in space. They can see things up there we can't now down here. But what I'm referring to has to be verified @ the location before it's a done deal. Obviously you are not aware of what I'm referring to. That's too bad. What I'm claiming is really scientific. We will see if it's bogus or not.
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Dusty, right now Nick isn't the only person claiming the Vikings may have been here way before Columbus via a satellite in space. They can see things up there we can't now down here. But what I'm referring to has to be verified @ the location before it's a done deal. Obviously you are not aware of what I'm referring to. That's too bad. What I'm claiming is really scientific. We will see if it's bogus or not.
Wayne , I never ever said that the Vikings being in Newfoundland was incorrect , or that there isn't a different site 200 miles South from the proven settlement . What Nick and I are disputing are the claims that they were in Ohio or Indiana . Not sure where you got the impression that Nick and I were disagreeing , maybe my statement wasn't clear .
Dusty
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This "discussioin" has been going on so long I wasn't about to read it all and find out it's really only between you and Nick. How can you as a monitor hog that much space on this forum w/o feeling guilty for it? If you 2 guys want to BS that much do it on your own e-mail. :clock:
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This "discussioin" has been going on so long I wasn't about to read it all and find out it's really only between you and Nick. How can you as a monitor hog that much space on this forum w/o feeling guilty for it? If you 2 guys want to BS that much do it on your own e-mail. :clock:
So in other words you were clueless and couldn't be bothered with actually reading what Nick or I really said , you just wanted to insult me ? It's alright Wayne , the Sun will still come up in the morning and I will have a nice day , here's hoping you do also :thumb:
Dusty
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What? I came here looking fer some Vikings!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/Kung-Fury-Techno-Viking_zpslaj8w51w.jpg)
Found one! :boozing:
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Pennie , you are aware of course that 100 years from now someone will use that picture as proof that not only did Vikings visit the Rocky Mtns , but also were armed with very advanced weaponry :shocked:
Hubba Hubba :laugh:
Dusty
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So in other words you were clueless and couldn't be bothered with actually reading what Nick or I really said , you just wanted to insult me ? It's alright Wayne , the Sun will still come up in the morning and I will have a nice day , here's hoping you do also :thumb:
Dusty
If you want to call a personal forum multi day BS session an insult, so be it. I call it doing a lousy job of your accepted duties.
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If you want to call a personal forum multi day BS session an insult, so be it. I call it doing a lousy job of your accepted duties.
Once again you aren't making any sense and your intent is simply to dole out an insult . If you really have a problem with me , take it to Luap , or keep quiet . Have a nice day .
Dusty
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HisStory!
Food for though about our ancient past...
The Old Kingdom & the Still Older Kingdom (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssrXT2Ecsj0)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1a/bc/8f/1abc8f4791fc6e5abb0c66fe3cfe4da0.jpg)
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I'm not familiar with Lovelock Cave, but the skull's brow ridges look within normal for current humans. Shapes vary plenty. Neanderthals were, if I'm remembering correctly, rather short and wide, 3/4-scale football linemen. And not a "different species" since they and "modern" H. Sap interbred successfully, just a different body type.
Very different body type, commonly is indeed classified as another species, for all that there was some interbreeding. I don't know of any giant remains - but there aren't any North American remains to look at. If they did manage to get over here, they would have been an isolated population with their own physical peculiarities. The range of H sapiens stature is pretty large, and H neanderthalensis would have only needed to be maybe three inches taller than the early North American H sapiens to be remembered in legend as giants, especially considering their robust build.
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What? I came here looking fer some Vikings!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/Kung-Fury-Techno-Viking_zpslaj8w51w.jpg)
Found one! :boozing:
And yeah she had a gun too. :grin:
Dean
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Whilst normal male types were fixated on her breasts. Ouch!! :evil: