Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Moz on July 07, 2018, 01:25:40 AM
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Was news to me...? ;)
http://theclan.motoguzzi.com/en/the-v85-engine-the-clan-special/
THE V85 ENGINE: ALL THE SECRETS IN THE CLAN SPECIAL 5July 2018
The powerful, unique lines of the V85 have stayed in our minds since we first saw the bike at EICMA 2017 and, after no less than two much-clicked special features on the topic posted right here on the community website, for us members of The Clan the bike�s design no longer holds any secrets. �Ok, but what about the engine?� you ask.
This is one of the top topics in the comments section, so here�s the in-depth article that we�ve all been waiting for regarding the 850CC engine that powers not only the V85 but a new range of �Eagle� two-wheelers, starting with a much more road-style sibling!
We can only tell you about this engine thanks to Antonio Cappellini, Moto Guzzi�s head honcho of design as well as diehard biker and off-roader, who revealed all the secrets of this twin-cylinder engine in the May edition of the �Motociclismo� magazine.
80� THE MAGIC NUMBER
80 HP with 80 Nm of torque and extreme attention paid to easy, fluid power delivery: that�s the recipe for this new engine that will soon be powering us and the V85 towards new Guzzi-style adventures.
While from the outside it may remind you of the 850CC twin of the V9, the similarities are limited to the engine capacity and the bore and stroke figures: all the rest is totally new!
The time has come to lay to rest a false rumour that has been doing the rounds amongst certain Guzzi fans out there: there was no need for 4 valves per cylinder in order to achieve the mythical figure of 100 HP/litre, 2 valves per cylinder, enlarged to 45 mm, were quite sufficient. The pushrod and valve rocker system and the air-cooling, the pride and tradition of Moto Guzzi history, remain unchanged, thus confirming the engineering architecture that has made the brand what it is today.
NOTHING SECRET
We Guzzi fans don�t believe in miracles, so what is the secret of this new engine�s performance? Obviously there�s more than just one: firstly the use of titanium intake valves, an elegant solution that enables the adoption of a far more high-performance valve-lifting geometry, and then there�s also the semi-dry sump lubrication system rather than a dry-sump system, with dual coaxial delivery pumps that are so reliable that there is no need to fit an oil cooler.
We can also say goodbye to the very bothersome vibrations at high speed (while the more pleasant ones will remain) thanks to a weight saving of almost 30% on the piston rod assemblies. To complete the package there will also be a new, 52mm throttle assembly (as compared to the 39mm of the V9) and a ride-by-wire throttle, coupled with variable mapping for riding and traction control conditions.
EVOLUTION AND LEGEND
The best of technology with total respect for tradition: an engineering challenge also overcome as regards environmental emissions. Indeed, the V85�s engine is proof that performance and air-cooling can in fact coexist comfortably with the Euro 4 regulations. But how, you ask? Well, thanks to the high operating efficiency delivered by the absence of a number of components that tend to reduce power output (such as cooling pumps and timing chains), which also translates into very low fuel consumption figures.
An engine that is so modern that it even impacts on the frame design, becoming an integral part of the vehicle. Thanks to more rigid side covers and longer forks, the V85�s precision and driveability on the road are top notch, even at high speed.
CHANGING PERSPECTIVE
In a market such as that of on- and off-roading machines, in which the twin cylinder engine capacities have for some time now exceeded 1200CC, the V85 engine now comes along with all its ducks in a row and ready to change the rules of the game rather than merely accept them as they are.
Lightweight, responsive, with a feisty torque curve that already hits 80 Nm at 3,500RPM, this bike is able to meet all the on-road riding needs of even the most expert riders, and even in arduous off-road riding conditions.
Moto Guzzi�s history is studded with examples of bikes that have broken all the rules while remaining true to the identity of the legend that is Moto Guzzi: this is undoubtedly going to be one great Moto Guzzi!
(https://image.ibb.co/mmoard/201807_Motore_V85_ok_logo_010.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/fMxqPy/201807_Motore_V85_ok_logo_002.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/jW1TBd/201807_Motore_V85_ok_logo_009.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/ff8mxJ/201807_Motore_V85_ok_logo_003.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/kibvrd/201807_Motore_V85_ok_logo_001.jpg)
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Shut up and take my money..!
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Been down this road before. 80HP at the crank maybe, on a really good day, using a blueprinted engine, yadda-yadda-yadda :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
That said, can't wait for a test ride...
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80 crank hp and not-so-heavy?
I'd be VERY interested in a road-style sibling!
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I feel another thread merge coming..
Thanks for this!! Great stuff...could be lots more detail on the engine
First time I've seen the Blue....I am in
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So this new motor is still a two valve ?
I ain't believing the power figures until someone does some actual Dyno runs .
Dusty
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So this new motor is still a two valve ?
I ain't believing the power figures until someone does some actual Dyno runs .
Dusty
But ....... but .......... Guzzi has said ................... .........
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Hmmm....
l'm thinking model year three might be the time to buy.
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Shut up and take my money..!
My feelings as well. I was in since the first announcement. Its getting better with every update.
60, 70, 80 HP, who cares. My 60 HP LeMans will go 125mph Who here rides 125 on dirt roads?
Pete
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My feelings as well. I was in since the first announcement. Its getting better with every update.
60, 70, 80 HP, who cares. My 60 HP LeMans will go 125mph Who here rides 125 on dirt roads?
Pete
Exactly.
Even if 80 horse proves to be an optimistic claim, so what ? As you say, a 60 horse Le Mans is fawned over on these pages and my Mk 2 is an underpowered, underbraked, undersuspended, underridden relic that only serves to show me how good my Norge is.
Instead of standing back and ridiculing Guzzi's claims, we might be better served to see how it feels on an evaluation ride and bugger what the dyno says.
All Guzzies are pretty watery when put side by side with the likes of an Aprilia RSV 1000 or performance offering, from the land of the Rising Sun, but that's not a KPI that's worthy of inclusion in the equation.
There's a collective swell of posts that grizzle on the subject that Guzzi won't produce what "we" want and when they look like they might, they cop a bollocking from the knockers who want to scoff at their claims and then give the reader the benefit of their own conventional wisdom, with such bursts of enlightenment as...
"I'll believe it when I see it"...
I'll look forward to watching them on mastermind,
"Random voices from Wild Guzzi, special subject...
The bleedin' obvious..."
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Your point is well taken Huzo,
But unfortunately the marketing guys are really ramping up on this one, and we've all been subjucted to their B.S. not only with Moto Guzzi but everything else we buy. Stiffer side panels? no wonder my sport doesn't handle, mine are plastic! Whats next environmentally friendly seat cover? I'll be happy to wait and actually see one in person and in the meantime don't feed me nonsense.
Paul B :boozing:
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Sorry fellas , this "clan" nonsense just strikes me as silly . I don't truly care how much power the new motor makes , but over hyping and under delivering seems an awful way to market . Time will tell , maybe the "new" motor will be a beast , or maybe it will be a slight improvement on the existing motor . Doubting the engineers had any input on the marketing , it reads like something from a bike rag circa 1970 .
Dusty
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Your point is well taken Huzo,
But unfortunately the marketing guys are really ramping up on this one, and we've all been subjucted to their B.S. not only with Moto Guzzi but everything else we buy. Stiffer side panels? no wonder my sport doesn't handle, mine are plastic! Whats next environmentally friendly seat cover? I'll be happy to wait and actually see one in person and in the meantime don't feed me nonsense.
Paul B :boozing:
Yes ok mate, that's fairly put.
But the poor bastards are trying to learn how to market their stuff.
If they knocked Harley or BMW's marketing gurus over the head and locked them up in Mandello, picking their brains as it were on the topic of product promotion, you'd reckon there'd be an immediate increase in uptake of the old rattlers.
Their phraseology is quaint and quirky to the point of being comical, but I sorta' like their weirdness and relative lack of slickness, the likes of which only a true ad-man can vomit forth, upon request.
It probably is BS, but it's a brand I like and I wouldn't necessarily believe them if they told me my arse was pointing towards the Earth anyway...
I'll know 5 minutes after the first turn of the throttle, but I'll not call them liars or bullshit artists until I've got a solid reason, even if I suspect it.
I'd sooner trust them then wish I hadn't, than not trust them and wish I had...
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, it reads like something from a bike rag circa 1970 .
Dusty
No need to apologize Dusty, you speak truly.
Yes it does sound like 70's crap, but I love it..
They were the best years of my life.
Bring that crap on..!
They've no need to advertise to me anyway, put one on the floor and I'll ride it from Melbourne to Mandello
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High dome hemi also. Takes some good engine management to make that work. Dual plug heads?
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As a comparison, My beemer has 1130 cc, 10.3 to 1 compression ratio, 4 valves dual plug hemi head and is rated (seen dyno runs of several R1150Rs) rated 83 hp @ 6750 rpm. at the crank. On the dyno about 78 hp (rear wheel) w/ no cat & staintune exhaust..
Duh....
Oh dear that's only 3 horse up on a V 85.
Is she unwell..?
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On the contrary, its the difference between the real world and a..well... fairy tale.
:-)
Oh, I see yes.
Well, at least it's got us all talking... :kiss:
Just looking at the images, I wish somebody would buy them a can of decent coloured paint.
Looks like the display bikes at the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras in Sydney..!
(Especially that blue tank thing, sorta' line something from Priscilla Queen of the Desert)
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A test ride will be the proof of the pudding, as they say. I love the blue paint job, but would also have to see how that red frame looks in real life, it doesn't do much for me in the photos, but if the rest of the bike is the real deal, I could live with it. My local dealer is flagged to let me know when it hits the showroom - is the purported August/September intro date for Europe or the US also? Hmm, it might be time to see about finding a good home for the Special Sport to make room in the man cave.
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The additional color schemes look nice...
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(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/61420814/that-thing-there-got-a-hemi.jpg)
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80HP? That's up 5HP from my 75HP V11 Sport.
But my Sport has Clydesdales, not Shetlands. :bow:
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As a comparison, My beemer has 1130 cc, 10.3 to 1 compression ratio, 4 valves dual plug hemi head and is rated (seen dyno runs of several R1150Rs) rated 83 hp @ 6750 rpm. at the crank. On the dyno about 78 hp (rear wheel) w/ no cat & staintune exhaust..
Duh....
Well, my Triumph 800 XC Tiger is rated at 94HP and dynoed at 82. OK three cylinders and 4 valves per. Those beemers must be way under stressed. Guzzi's claims might have been easily met with 4 valves. We will have see how close they get with 2 per.
BTW I checked what normally aspirated 2 valve 6.2L Corvettes make. 1.2 HP per cubic inch. Guzzi is claiming 1.5 so I get the skeptics. Still no matter to me.
Pete
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For Guzzi Perspective, my Quota 1100 makes a Dyno tuned via power commander 64 RWHP and 62 Ft.Lbs. of torque. Probably weighs a good 600 lbs.
It pulls like a freight train with gobs power where I need it. It's my favorite do everything bike. Quality of horsepower is more important than the amount. Riding something with the powerband of a light switch sucks ( ie: stock Centauro / Daytona RS )
Someone should actually ride this new dual sport before we start condemning or praising it. It could be the best engine Guzzi ever made.
"The Clan" is a moronic advertising campaign and does not translate well to the U.S. market. Membership sounds like it should come with a complimentary white pointy hat.
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:copcar:
......
"The Clan" is a moronic advertising campaign and does not translate well to the U.S. market. Membership sounds like it should come with a complimentary white pointy hat.
And Guzzi has used White Power suspension..
A disturbing coincidence?
Inquiring minds..... :afro:
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I bought the V7 for what it is. Not what everyone hopes Moto Guzzi will become. I've had the 160 Hp bikes. I very rarely ever used the Hp available.
I'm sure I will rarely hit the max Hp RPMs on the V7.
When I had a Ninja 250 and my KLX250S, then yes, I constantly used all the Hp available.
I would rather they put Ohlins suspension front and back, good rubber, and good brakes and call it a day.
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I WANT THE BLUE ONE!!!! :bow:
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A (quite durable) 1064 cc V11 Sport makes about 78 RWHP with a pushrod 2V per cylinder air cooled engine. I'd guess the power output of this might be something like 850/1064 * 78 = 62 RWHP. The lack of any torque reaction linkage would probably be limiting with any more power than that in any case.
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I would rather they put Ohlins suspension front and back, --- and good brakes and call it a day.
Totally
Larry
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The Clan is an unfortunate choice, though 90% of the Guzzi market surly has no issue, as I believe the Klan is a unique American nightmare.
I hope Guzzi gets it right, out of the Shute, it could be a big platform and motor for them.
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Well I as many here am too old to wait till year 3. If it could be at least as good as a V7-3 and deliver 65 & 65 to the rear wheel still have a low seat height I'll gamble and buy the first one I find.
Don't forget they built the Aprillia shiver with about the same power.
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For Guzzi Perspective, my Quota 1100 makes a Dyno tuned via power commander 64 RWHP and 62 Ft.Lbs. of torque. Probably weighs a good 600 lbs.
It pulls like a freight train with gobs power where I need it. It's my favorite do everything bike. Quality of horsepower is more important than the amount. Riding something with the powerband of a light switch sucks ( ie: stock Centauro / Daytona RS )
Someone should actually ride this new dual sport before we start condemning or praising it. It could be the best engine Guzzi ever made.
"The Clan" is a moronic advertising campaign and does not translate well to the U.S. market. Membership sounds like it should come with a complimentary white pointy hat.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a2/05/3b/a2053bb42ad17cd4eb8e579b616b3bc7.jpg)
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Jeesh, let's see how it turns out - I for one are more interested in the news of a new mid weight road bike
Do I think this new engine will make 80 HP at the crank? Probably not.
Do I care? No.
I've ridden the V9 and it's a lively engine - this has all the markings of an even better one..
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Jeesh, let's see how it turns out - I for one are more interested in the news of a new mid weight road bike
Do I think this new engine will make 80 HP at the crank? Probably not.
Do I care? No.
I've ridden the V9 and it's a lively engine - this has all the markings of an even better one..
∆∆∆∆ this.
Jebuz, some of you fookers would piss on a kid's lit birthday cake!
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That is a fantastic picture. Quota is kinda like a Clydesdale . :grin:
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GEEBUS , no one is knocking the new bike , only the incredibly childish marketing . Build us a modern bike , give us some numbers , grease everything that needs grease , make sure the valve train doesn't explode , and it will sell .
Dusty
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GEEBUS , no one is knocking the new bike , only the incredibly childish marketing . Build us a modern bike , give us some numbers , grease everything that needs grease , make sure the valve train doesn't explode , and it will sell .
Dusty
Hey you marketers, get off my lawn....
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Hey you marketers, get off my lawn....
I can't imagine anyone buying a new Guzzi based on that nonsense on the clan .
Dusty
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I can't imagine anyone buying a new Guzzi based on that nonsense on the clan .
Dusty
Why would someone buy a new Guzzi that isn't already a Guzzi fan Dusty?
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Why would someone buy a new Guzzi that isn't already a Guzzi fan Dusty?
It happens all of the time , but not because of a bunch of marketing hype .
Dusty
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I've translated it for you:
This is a new motorcycle made by Moto Guzzi. It has a conventional 2 valve, pushrod engine to keep the Luddites happy, and a fancy ECU with ride-by-wire and other geegaws like traction control and ABS to keep the techno wankers happy. It has suspension to stop your bottom getting sore and you can ride it on the road, and even on grass and sand and rocks and stuff. The new engine makes some power. It will go fast enough to lose your licence, an you can even ride it slow. Honest! The fuel tank is big enough to let you ride between towns, even. The nay-sayers said we'd have to build a liquid cooled engine to beat the pesky Euro4 emissions, but we showed them! We just inject fresh air into the exhaust. Ha!
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I can't imagine anyone buying a new Guzzi based on that nonsense on the clan .
Dusty
Yes we've already established that you, and I, and everyone else here is above all that. Yeah the elites.
But at the end of the day it seems to work, only on the unwashed masses right? But work it seems to do.
So why begrudge your preferred motorcycle manufacture that piece of success?
I dunno, seems like Much Ado...
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Yes we've already established that you, and I, and everyone else here is above all that. Yeah the elites.
But at the end of the day it seems to work, only on the unwashed masses right? But work it seems to do.
So why begrudge your preferred motorcycle manufacture that piece of success?
I dunno, seems like Much Ado...
Yeah , and when the motorbike misses the hype by a country mile we'll see how that works . Build a quality bike , market it properly and stand back . The younger audience this bike is aimed at are pretty careful with their money .
Dusty
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Ahh, now we can see, Dusty has a sharp understanding of how the sub thirty set feels about money and value, and we can be sure he hasn't come to his conclusion based on limited anicdotale sources.
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Ahh, now we can see, Dusty has a sharp understanding of how the sub thirty set feels about money and value, and we can be sure he hasn't come to his conclusion based on limited anicdotale sources.
Actually I have daily contact with more than one motorcycle rider who is in that age bracket , you don't think I spend all of my time hanging with you old guys do you ? :evil: In fact about ten of those guys and a couple of girls are joining me for a small get together in September .
Dusty
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I've translated it for you:
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We just inject fresh air into the exhaust. Ha!
Hehe, you may be right.. and yet they are monitoring the exhaust on both sides high up and well before the expansion chamber..?
(https://mcn-images.bauersecure.com/PageFiles/653671/1000x750/guzzi-concept-side.jpg)
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The production model will likely have the lambda probes just before the crossover. The secondary air on the small block is in the heads.
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What bothers me is the usual Italian hype introducing a bike at one of these shows and the bike doesn't arrive for another 3+ years Having said that is there any guesstimate of weight price etc?
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"This bike has its ducks in a row" ......😎 Yup.... Just look at it's face. Looks like a cartoon character.
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The production model will likely have the lambda probes just before the crossover. The secondary air on the small block is in the heads.
Get some VW software into the system and it'll pass emissions testing every time..
(For a while)
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I like this bike and may well buy one. Having said that, suspension travel looks mighty limited and the bash plate bolting directly to the engine case, well, I see cracked engine cases should the bash plate actually contact rock from its low ground clearance position.
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The clan? Scott’s have had them for years, perhaps you prefer tribe?
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Hehe, you may be right.. and yet they are monitoring the exhaust on both sides high up and well before the expansion chamber..?
(https://mcn-images.bauersecure.com/PageFiles/653671/1000x750/guzzi-concept-side.jpg)
Have a look just forward of the oil fill/dip stick... in greese pen ...I think that says �Press OK� interesting ...
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If the quotes on rear wheel HP is from a Dynojet dynamometer, it about about 8-10 percent higher than the eddy current dynos manufacturers use...
The 2 valve Ducati air cooled 900's as used in the Monsters and SS's make a realistic 70 or so HP at the rear wheel..Some might advertise that at 82 HP...
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It happens all of the time , but not because of a bunch of marketing hype .
Dusty
If not the marketing, then why? If you don't know, then how do you know it is not because of the marketing?
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If not the marketing, then why? If you don't know, then how do you know it is not because of the marketing?
Don't you already need to own a Guzzi to belong to this "clan" nonsense ?
Once again , build a modern motorbike that doesn't go boom , make sure it is really an improvement, get a couple into the hands of journos , and stand back .
Maybe I am just tired of marketing hype , I don't eat at chain restaurants , don't shop at Old Navy, and don't believe that drinking Bud Light will make me cool . Time will tell , I hope this thing sells like hot cakes , but trust me , if it is nothing more than hype , the success will be short lived . Word gets around really fast today .
Dusty
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I always shake my head when the first thing someone posts is that a Guzzi needs Ohlins. Is there a bike on the market with Ohlins suspension that doesn't cost over 15 grand? I honestly don't know but I can't remember seeing one. Ohlins on a Guzzi is like a homely girl getting a set of bolt-ons. It doesn't magically transform her into a knockout.
I'd rather see an V85 powered sporty standard with CX or 1000S styling, decent suspension by Marzocchi or Sachs and a price point under or around 12k. They might as well discontinue the V9 or upgrade the V7 by using the V9 engine in it.
As a previous poster said, the V85 will have roughly 900SS stock horsepower and probably be 30-40lbs heavier. My 93' 900SS had a 944cc upgrade, flatslides and cored mufflers and I still wasn't overawed by the power but it was certainly adequate.
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Horse power claims are for bench racing noobs! :evil:
There are a lot of bikes that out perform their numbers because the torque curve is well designed. Smooth and not "on-off" power down low when riding slowly through town but wick it up a bit and it comes on well when fed the berries.
I personally think that is why the Guzzi small block is so well thought of by their owners. My FJ09 has a bench racing beast of a motor and when riding it spiritedly, it puts out in spades. However, when shutting down to ride through a town I have found it is most comfortable to switch it over to rain mode or there is just too much "quick".
Guzzi has shown in the past they understand how to use the torque curve to the bike advantage and I see no reason for them to change now. I really don't care what the HP figures are at the top of the rev range, but do care that the motor is smooth at low RPMs (unlike the CARCs without remapping) and has some guts from 4.5K to 7K RPMs.
They used the same 1200 motor in the Griso, Norge, Stelvio and Breva. Lets hope this motor pans out and they repeat the formula successfully! :thumb:
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Don't you already need to own a Guzzi to belong to this "clan" nonsense ?
Once again , build a modern motorbike that doesn't go boom , make sure it is really an improvement, get a couple into the hands of journos , and stand back .
Maybe I am just tired of marketing hype , I don't eat at chain restaurants , don't shop at Old Navy, and don't believe that drinking Bud Light will make me cool . Time will tell , I hope this thing sells like hot cakes , but trust me , if it is nothing more than hype , the success will be short lived . Word gets around really fast today .
Dusty
Hot Cakes have gluten and some people are sensitive to gluten. No one will be satisfied until we all sit quietly in a blacked out room set a 74 degrees f. Equality sounds like a great idea for everyone, but me.
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HP figures a lot of flash and not much substance...if the motor has a broad, flat torque curve with tractable usable power off-idle and deep into the mid-range, THAT is what makes a great engine...much easier to engineer something that can race from stoplight-to-stoplight...
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Have a look just forward of the oil fill/dip stick... in greese pen ...I think that says �Press OK� interesting ...
I think that's probably Oil Pressure check, and Oh My Gosh, an oil level sight glass! It's about time :evil:
I hope they sell well.
Paul B :boozing:
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Until last month, I hadn�t owned a mid-size motorcycle in years, thought I needed more. But then I rented a mid-size GS for a week-long tour in Northern California. To my surprise, it did EVERYTHING I needed it to do, and did it really well, from dirt roads and construction zones to high speeds on the freeways. It became apparent that I�ve been buying more motorcycle than I needed for quite a while. So, I bought a new one when I got home.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/fXth7T/99_B659_A2_A9_DD_42_AE_906_D_7_B501537952_D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fXth7T)
OGC: for the same reason, the V85 looks promising, but I suspect we won�t actually be able to get them for quite a while.
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Actually I have daily contact with more than one motorcycle rider who is in that age bracket , you don't think I spend all of my time hanging with you old guys do you ? :evil: In fact about ten of those guys and a couple of girls are joining me for a small get together in September .
Dusty
Dusty running amuck with a mixed group of Millennials? This can't end well. :laugh:
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Could this be the beginning of a new, hip, trendier Dusty?? Or just the beginning of a trend towards [the installation of] a new hip??
Stay tuned! :popcorn:
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Could this be the beginning of a new, hip, trendier Dusty?? Or just the beginning of a trend towards a new hip??
Stay tuned! :popcorn:
Not likely , "hip" costs money , cool on the other hand is free .
Dusty
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Dusty running amuck with a mixed group of Millennials? This can't end well. :laugh:
.....sounds like the premise of a Cohen Bros movie. :huh:
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.....sounds like the premise of a Cohen Bros movie. :huh:
Jim Carrey and a comedic John Travolta for mine..
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.....sounds like the premise of a Cohen Bros movie. :huh:
Hmmm, like when the guy get thrown into the wood chipper? Or the guy who kills people with air gun? :evil:
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Until they get 250 HP out of the 750 cc engine, I ain't buying another Guzzi. You need to have at LEAST this much horsepower to have decent performance, otherwise the thing is just too dang slow.
Geez, Guzzi, we need a Hayabusa but twice the horsepower of that. Why can't you be another Honda/Suzuki/Honda/Yamaha/Harley and make "decent" bikes. I am shocked that you are still in business.
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Well, not 250 HP from a 750 but a bit over 200 HP from an 800 cc two stroke Polaris sled motor....This is at Dynotech where i dyno my race bikes..You think it might be a bit top end peaky ?
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36788073_10205043136434039_1049572518312017920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=b834cf33aff49249a19001080f6166f4&oe=5B9E2A00)
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(https://thumb.ibb.co/gVK9nT/C109_E6_F1_FD8_C_4118_8_EC7_E85_D50_BDF69_D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gVK9nT)
Funny they picked a beefy test rider, should have a good suspension :boozing:
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I always shake my head when the first thing someone posts is that a Guzzi needs Ohlins. Is there a bike on the market with Ohlins suspension that doesn't cost over 15 grand? I honestly don't know but I can't remember seeing one. Ohlins on a Guzzi is like a homely girl getting a set of bolt-ons. It doesn't magically transform her into a knockout.
I'd rather see an V85 powered sporty standard with CX or 1000S styling, decent suspension by Marzocchi or Sachs and a price point under or around 12k. They might as well discontinue the V9 or upgrade the V7 by using the V9 engine in it.
As a previous poster said, the V85 will have roughly 900SS stock horsepower and probably be 30-40lbs heavier. My 93' 900SS had a 944cc upgrade, flatslides and cored mufflers and I still wasn't overawed by the power but it was certainly adequate.
V7 Racer. Add Ohlins to the front for another grand. At today's market value you will come away under $10k.
Ohlins are actually around the same price as other comparable suspension components from other companies. I agree that it doesn't need to be Ohlins, just that by saying Ohlins everyone knows I am saying good suspension without having to go into details.
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For those Guzzi people that have ridden a few small blocks it’s not hard to imagine a revvy engine like a Lario or a V50 combined with the bottom end pull of the V7 series.
It Could be a game changer for Guzzi.
All they have to do now is style it right and make it reliable.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/fFxZMo/D4_D70_C22_B600_495_B_A3_F7_1007_A3521_A0_F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fFxZMo)
This bike would get my money.
Cheers, voncrump
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Toss that engine in a naked (or semi-naked) standard with room for two, and I'm in. We'll be ready by the time this thing would come out.
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Give me a woman who'll ride naked and I'M IN....
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So this new motor is still a two valve ?
I ain't believing the power figures until someone does some actual Dyno runs .
Dusty
That power rating is certainly believable. I mean a 2 valve, air cooled ducati w/sophisticated valve gear is certainly in the 100hp per liter clas w/no stress. Just sayin
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That power rating is certainly believable. I mean a 2 valve, air cooled ducati w/sophisticated valve gear is certainly in the 100hp per liter clas w/no stress. Just sayin
OHC and higher RPM .
Dusty
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(https://thumb.ibb.co/gVK9nT/C109_E6_F1_FD8_C_4118_8_EC7_E85_D50_BDF69_D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gVK9nT)
Funny they picked a beefy test rider, should have a good suspension :boozing:
Realistic testing right there. :boozing:
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(https://thumb.ibb.co/gVK9nT/C109_E6_F1_FD8_C_4118_8_EC7_E85_D50_BDF69_D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gVK9nT)
Funny they picked a beefy test rider, should have a good suspension :boozing:
Well, if it will haul that portly Italian, it should work just fine for me :grin:
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OHC and higher RPM .
Dusty
My 96 900 Monster 2 valve air cooled is rated by Ducati at 73 rear wheel HP at 7000 rpm...I've also seen a 82 crankshaft HP rating at 7100 rpm.The 96 still has the bigger valve and cam V2 heads..With an accurate tachometer the engine pulls hard past 8000 rpm and in lower gears near 9000 rpm before the power seems to fade...This is a stock but tuned carburetor engine..
From what I read on Ducati websites, the engine can make about 100 hp with some modification but like most two valvers, it becomes very lumpy with a narrow power band.
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I said I wasn't going to wade into this but screw it....
* I assume (and I hope most agree) the "claimed" 80 hp figure is crank.
* Motorcycle.com got 48 rwhp on a V7 III and didn't someone here just post a dyno run of a V7 III with a reflash just north of 50 hp.
* MCN put Jenn's Duc (696) at 68 rwhp, Cycleworld has 66 rwhp, all vs an original clamied 79 at the crank (@ 9000 rpm), looks like Ducati later revised that figure to 74 hp @ crank when they got called out on their testing method and re-rated about a decade's worth of bike specs.
Looks like the Hemi head can breath a little better and has some room to work with, also looks like a 700cc 2V, aircooled Duc can get close to that claimed hp.... and the current EU IV or V or whatever 797 is rated 73 crank hp @ 8250.
So although I don't really care if the new 2V, air-cooled, 850cc Guzzi model actually make 80 hp or 70 hp at the crank, I bet it's going to have a kick over the current 750 for those who want it, and will likely be a blast.
Yeah, maybe Guzzi is playing a little hard and fast with the facts, like the guys on Top Gear have joked about with Italian manufacturers before. OK, whatever... I'm good, move on, nothing to worry about here.
Based on all that real world data I'm going to throw out a rwhp guess of 68 rwhp when one finally gets dyno'd (Huzo, block and copy that for reference).
IF that becomes a reality, that would represent a ~70% increase in power over the V7C and the Stone/Special/Racer V7 I and II.
If that becomes a reality, that would represent a ~42% increase in power over the V7 III.
Those all sound like pretty good numbers and a reasonable prediction.
Of course they're all SWAGs, but time will tell and I'll be interested to see how good a SWAG it was.
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For those Guzzi people that have ridden a few small blocks it�s not hard to imagine a revvy engine like a Lario or a V50 combined with the bottom end pull of the V7 series.
It Could be a game changer for Guzzi.
All they have to do now is style it right and make it reliable.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/fFxZMo/D4_D70_C22_B600_495_B_A3_F7_1007_A3521_A0_F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fFxZMo)
If that was on a show room floor I would. buy regardless
Of price!
This bike would get my money.
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I would love to see Guzzi build a modern LeMans with that engine. Of course ,it would have to have good quality suspension, and comfortable sport touring ergos. I think the mid sized market is what is selling these days, and a beautiful bike like the V7 racer will always sell....We know Guzzi knows how to build beautiful bikes, and people buy motorcycles based on looks/emotion.....It could be the best handling, powerful, machine, but if it does not look beautiful ,it wont sell.
Many of the mid sized bikes these days, although great bikes, they look like insects. Italian stuff has always been about design, and beauty. Guzzi needs to use that Italian flair, or panache' to their advantage.
Rick.
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Duly noted along with the others Kev.
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I said I wasn't going to wade into this but screw it....
* I assume (and I hope most agree) the "claimed" 80 hp figure is crank.
* Motorcycle.com got 48 rwhp on a V7 III and didn't someone here just post a dyno run of a V7 III with a reflash just north of 50 hp.
* MCN put Jenn's Duc (696) at 68 rwhp, Cycleworld has 66 rwhp, all vs an original clamied 79 at the crank (@ 9000 rpm), looks like Ducati later revised that figure to 74 hp @ crank when they got called out on their testing method and re-rated about a decade's worth of bike specs.
Looks like the Hemi head can breath a little better and has some room to work with, also looks like a 700cc 2V, aircooled Duc can get close to that claimed hp.... and the current EU IV or V or whatever 797 is rated 73 crank hp @ 8250.
So although I don't really care if the new 2V, air-cooled, 850cc Guzzi model actually make 80 hp or 70 hp at the crank, I bet it's going to have a kick over the current 750 for those who want it, and will likely be a blast.
Yeah, maybe Guzzi is playing a little hard and fast with the facts, like the guys on Top Gear have joked about with Italian manufacturers before. OK, whatever... I'm good, move on, nothing to worry about here.
Based on all that real world data I'm going to throw out a rwhp guess of 68 rwhp when one finally gets dyno'd (Huzo, block and copy that for reference).
IF that becomes a reality, that would represent a ~70% increase in power over the V7C and the Stone/Special/Racer V7 I and II.
If that becomes a reality, that would represent a ~42% increase in power over the V7 III.
Those all sound like pretty good numbers and a reasonable prediction.
Of course they're all SWAGs, but time will tell and I'll be interested to see how good a SWAG it was.
I like data therefore I like to read this :P
but honestly tho, anything more out of that 2V engine will already be an upgrade of something that already works decently well in this normal world...
Granted, it aint a super bike. but if you want one, go get a superbike...of course one could wish Guzzi get back to making one...that will be a different thread for another time.
Honestly, if it is comfy, it pulls like a train (relatively), satisfy my 2wheels obsession and NOT adding too much of electronic mumble jumbles...why not?
Look can be subjective, and I won't go into that...again :P
until Guzzi comes out with more "official data", all current data are just speculation numbers.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/gVK9nT/C109_E6_F1_FD8_C_4118_8_EC7_E85_D50_BDF69_D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gVK9nT)
Funny they picked a beefy test rider, should have a good suspension :boozing:
Let just say I have high hope for a better suspension with this test ride LOL...
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80 hp would make a credible touring machine. What a fantastic "precision size" Norge it would make. I think Moto Guzzi "Seal" would be the best name for this new 'Beemer Buster.
'Geezer
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80ps (not imperial hp, even if there is little difference) form a 850cc, two valves, air cooled, long stroke engine (so 0.94ps/l specific power) is a very high figure.
That specific power is higher than any current production Ducati two valves engine, despite those having shorter stroke (so lower average piston speed), larger bore (so bigger valves) and OHC, and it's not like Ducati doesn't try to extract any hp it can from its engines.
It's the same of the BMW R NineT, that has bigger displacement, but shorter stroke than the V85, 4V and DOHC.
That said, Moto Guzzi had not "played a little hard and fast" wit power specs with the new engines they introduced in the last 10 years. The 930 of the Bellagio, the 1200 4V, the V9 and V7III all had measured RWHP compatible with claimed crank specs, and even a bit "conservative" (less than 10% loss).
So I expect a claimed 80ps V85 to have about 72ps at the rear wheel.
BTW, the claimed power at the crank for the Ducati Scrambler 800 pre Euro-IV was 75ps, reduced to 73ps with the Euro-IV.
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I don't know if the current two valve Ducati heads are better than the 90's heads...But...the intake ports are not the best design for maximum output..better designs have higher intake port floors with more velocity..But, in my opinion,...what matters is available power during sporting street riding..Ducati two valve and Guzzi don't seem to have a problem here...
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... in my opinion,...what matters is available power during sporting street riding..Ducati two valve and Guzzi don't seem to have a problem here...
:thumb:
As the owner of a two-valve Ducati, and several Guzzis, I agree.
The V7III definitely delivers power for street riding nicely. The more a ride it, the more I like it.
I just got back from a ride on the Monster 796. Except when riding aggressively, when accelerating on the street, I usually shift by 6,500 RPM anyways, which is the top of the power band on the V7III. HP at 6,500 is around 55 HP (RW), depending who's dyno chart you look at. Torque is in the low 50's. So, ridden like this, the engine performance is only a small bit more than the V7-III. I'd argue that the 80 HP V85 motor is going to have to be similar in it's power output to the two valve Duc, meaning in real world street riding, unless "ridden in anger", it's actually going to have similar performance to the current hemi-head smallblock.
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Well I as many here am too old to wait till year 3. If it could be at least as good as a V7-3 and deliver 65 & 65 to the rear wheel still have a low seat height I'll gamble and buy the first one I find.
Don't forget they built the Aprillia shiver with about the same power.
Looks to me that this bike has potential to be exceptional. The limited suspension travel and ground clearance of the bash plate I previously noted will result in an acceptable seat height. With dual sports like my KTM 690, which stock has 10 inches of travel and decent ground clearance, by default is just really tall. At age 60 this year I finally caved in and cut 2 inches off the suspension.
The same 690 is listed at 67hp. Let me say, if the Guzzi has 70hp it will be silly fun to ride.
The one option I am hoping for is cruise control.
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I said I wasn't going to wade into this but screw it....
* I assume (and I hope most agree) the "claimed" 80 hp figure is crank.
* Motorcycle.com got 48 rwhp on a V7 III and didn't someone here just post a dyno run of a V7 III with a reflash just north of 50 hp.
* MCN put Jenn's Duc (696) at 68 rwhp, Cycleworld has 66 rwhp, all vs an original clamied 79 at the crank (@ 9000 rpm), looks like Ducati later revised that figure to 74 hp @ crank when they got called out on their testing method and re-rated about a decade's worth of bike specs.
Looks like the Hemi head can breath a little better and has some room to work with, also looks like a 700cc 2V, aircooled Duc can get close to that claimed hp.... and the current EU IV or V or whatever 797 is rated 73 crank hp @ 8250.
So although I don't really care if the new 2V, air-cooled, 850cc Guzzi model actually make 80 hp or 70 hp at the crank, I bet it's going to have a kick over the current 750 for those who want it, and will likely be a blast.
Yeah, maybe Guzzi is playing a little hard and fast with the facts, like the guys on Top Gear have joked about with Italian manufacturers before. OK, whatever... I'm good, move on, nothing to worry about here.
Based on all that real world data I'm going to throw out a rwhp guess of 68 rwhp when one finally gets dyno'd (Huzo, block and copy that for reference).
IF that becomes a reality, that would represent a ~70% increase in power over the V7C and the Stone/Special/Racer V7 I and II.
If that becomes a reality, that would represent a ~42% increase in power over the V7 III.
Those all sound like pretty good numbers and a reasonable prediction.
Of course they're all SWAGs, but time will tell and I'll be interested to see how good a SWAG it was.
HA HA - stumbled upon this today when looking for something else.
Turns out I was within ~1 hp of the initial dynos on my SWAG!
Nice.
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And that's why I say "Kev's always right". LOL Good on Ya.
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And that's why I say "Kev's always right". LOL Good on Ya.
Would you mind speaking with Jenn about that... :thewife: :boozing: :laugh:
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(https://thumb.ibb.co/gVK9nT/C109_E6_F1_FD8_C_4118_8_EC7_E85_D50_BDF69_D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gVK9nT)
Funny they picked a beefy test rider, should have a good suspension :boozing:
I was thinking the same thing. It will need every hp it can get to haul that guy around!
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2/3 of Guzzi riders look like that guy, that's why he's doing the testing. The Roamer I have is said in OEM condition to put out 55HP at the crank, but they must be some BIG ass ponies. It is a bit odd, Guzzi said 55HP, but dyno runs put down 53ish HP at the rear wheel, torque is something like 46, but it's super friging flat across the entire rev-range. Anyway, it hauls my fat ass 240lb all over hill and dale easy peasy. I think the new 850 are a little more high strung, thus the extra HP likely makes for a more lively ride :evil:. I have a hankering for a new 85TT, we shall see. Anyone want a super well running Bettel Map 1100 Breva??