Help needed troubleshooting V 11 Sport

[bigbikerrick]

some photos of head with valves removed. I am concerned about the condition of the exhaust seat,and guide. seems to have alot of side play in the valve.
Rick.

[bigbikerrick]

 this is the exhaust valve. Do valve guides need to be reamed  to the size of the valve stem after installation, or are they ready to be used after just pressing them in?
Rick

[Moparnut72]

New guides usually need to be honed to the proper clearance for the valve stem. Sunnen makes equipment to do that. I would get the parts you need and take everything to a competent machine shop. Pulling old guides and installing new ones is no fun if the guides need to be replaced. Also a lot of specialized equipment and tools is required for the job.
kk

[wirespokes]

When dealing with parts held captive in aluminum (bearings, bushings, valve guides, etc) the part needs to be heated so it expands, otherwise the opening gets enlarged removing the part. Installing new guides is tricky, heating the whole head, freezing the guide, then installing the guide before it heats and expands and also cools the head. If it doesn't go right, there's a possibility the guide can work loose and that would be disastrous. Also, if things aren't right, it's possible the head can separate from the stem and then there's big problems. There are a lot of fine details doing valve guides - it's a job bordering on art - having a 'feel' for the materials and timing and knowing when things are right.

Looks like you're on the right track to getting this baby back on the road. I doubt there's anything wrong with the pistons or rings.

[bigbikerrick]

Thank you Moparnut, and wirespokes. I appreciate the information. New guides are on order,and the plan is  to  find a machine shop in Tucson ,  thats familiar with  working on air cooled motorcycle engines, and take them the head and parts. There are no machine shops in the small town where I live.
Rick.

[bmc5733946]

I would recommend K-lining the guides. K-lining allows the guide to stay in place and maintains the original valve guide center line and gives the valve a new surface to wear. It also carries lubricant better and makes things last a lot longer. K-lining is a brass material.

Information here.

https://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/valve-guide-liners.html

Brian

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thank you Moparnut, and wirespokes. I appreciate the information. New guides are on order,and the plan is  to  find a machine shop in Tucson ,  thats familiar with  working on air cooled motorcycle engines, and take them the head and parts. There are no machine shops in the small town where I live.
Rick.

An aircooled VW shop should have the correct size mandrels.

[bigbikerrick]

Thank you Brian, for the info on "K" liners. They must drill out the original guides,to make room for the K liner.  I did not see what holds the liner in place. Thats good info on a VW shop, Chuck.  There is a place in Tucson ,I have in mind, I think they are called EMPI  that caters to the VW buggy crowd. I bet they know of a good local machine shop. Gracias, Senor!
Rick.

[bigbikerrick]

Pardon my ignorance, fellas, but if the valve seats in the head are damaged, can those be replaced ?  They look like just a steel " ring ", pressed into the alloy head, but im sure there is more to it than that.
Rick.

[Dave Swanson]

Pardon my ignorance, fellas, but if the valve seats in the head are damaged, can those be replaced ?  They look like just a steel " ring ", pressed into the alloy head, but im sure there is more to it than that.
Rick.

Replacing valve seats is a specialized operation that can be botched by an amateur.  The process requires access to liquid nitrogen to chill the replacement seats.  I am sure there are a few shops out there that can perform this competently. 

[Moparnut72]

We replaced quite a few guides in the aircraft shop where I worked. Removing the old one required heat from an acetylene torch and a slide hammer. To install the new one the head would have to be heated to 500* F. The guide would have been in dry ice for a couple of hours, we had no source for liquid nitrogen. The the quide would be inserted quickly in to the head and seated with the same slide hammer. The boss and the number 2 guy would do this and then handed it off to me for honing. We had an extensive pin set which I used for sizing. Best taken to a shop that is equipped to perform this kind of work.
kk

[bigbikerrick]

The owner of the V 11 sport,depending on what the machinist tells him about his existing head, may be considering other options, like buying a used head online. We have seen a few on flea bay that look promising. Is there any difference in heads from say an EV and a V 11 sport, or a quota, or are all 1100 square heads basically the same ? 
thank you
Rick.

[bigbikerrick]

Thanks Chuck,and KK. Rebuilding a Guzzi head properly sounds like a very specialized operation.  Thank you for the information. Its all helpful, in what direction we take with this repair.
Rick D.

[pressureangle]

EMPI is a World-renowned VW performance house. I would not hesitate to give them my stuff if they'll take it.  Both guides and seats are replaceable, and not voodoo to those with the proper equipment and knowledge. I've done both with hand tools in the shop, though not specifically M-G. Be sure that you and they both know how the guides are fitted and retained; some are held by the valve spring seat via a flange, some are held by a snap ring, etc. iirc it may matter which direction you push them out/in.

[bigbikerrick]

Thanks for the heads up, pressureangle.
Rick.

[bigbikerrick]

Hello, Folks. I just wanted to update you all, on the progress of this V 11 sport. The right cylinder head has been taken to a machine shop in Tucson called "The racers edge". They are specialists in all sorts of performance engine stuff, and after taking a look at the head they said:  The valve seats in the head are pushed in and need to be replaced, as well as the valve guides. You could wiggle the exhaust valve sideways,and it would "wiggle" about 1/16 "!  They said it would be no problem for them to install new seats ,guides, and the new valves.
Rick D.

[Moparnut72]

If the right head is that bad, if it were me I would take the left one in as well. But that is just me. But I once had an older Chevy PU, burned a valve. Took the one head off, the valve could be wiggled back and forth a substantial amount. I only needed the truck for a couple more months so I got a replacement valve and threw it back together. Drove it as is for another couple of years.
kk

[RinkRat II]

     Thanks for the update, Rick.
 
    Paul B 

[bigbikerrick]

Good advice KK, exactly what I recomended to the owner of the bike. Especially since the right side that is being rebuilt, was not the side I found the valves to have zero clearance, it was the left. Since its a pretty  nice leMans, I would do it right, but I have a feeling the owner may end up eventually selling it, and just keeping his Griso.
Rick.

[Vagrant]

As a prospective buyer I would run away. If you didn’t do this right then I’d assume nothing was.

[bigbikerrick]

I agree with you Steve. Hopefully he will decide to do both sides. If it were my bike, I sure would.
Rick.