8V oil thermostat

[beetle]

The 1200 8V. It's marvellous. Wonderfull. Overcooled. Worse when you embiggen it to 1400. Stupidly overcooled. Add an oil thermostat you say. Can't be done, no room, you say. Wrong, says I.

Behold my thermostatically cooled Huge Block GRiSO. Fear it's oily hotness.


Item #1. Improved Racing Compact High-Flow Oil Cooler Thermostat. Available in various operational  temperatures. I chose the FSC-215.

Specs:
Typical stabilisation temp 215ºF (102ºC)
Activation temp 212ºF (100ºC)
Full flow temp 233ºF (112ºC)




I used Aeroflow -6AN 100 series hose with various connectors and doohickies to connect the thermostat to the oil radiator. Initially I planned to mount it in the oil cooler housing. The thermostat can be made to fit, but the hose connectors make it virtually impossible to hook up. I decided to mount it under the right 'wing'.






No leaks during testing.  YouTube video


https://youtu.be/oakkLYg2jHc






All tidied up.





Wing on. What thermostat?






OK, this wasn't a cheap exercise. Total costs during proof-of-concept was $970 Australian dollars. 

Final cost of functional installation: $740 Australian dollars. 

I bloody hope this works long-term. Full test ride tomorrow.

[lucian]

Fantastic !  Will be interesting to see if it solves the mayo build up in the rocker covers.  I still run my pathetic looking louver baffle and find it does make a big difference. I hate the thought of all that condensate dripping down on my $1400.00   c-  roller kit . I also have an oil temp dipstick `and find it takes a fairly lengthy thrashing in cool weather to get the oil above 100 c , even with the OC blocked 100%. Does the thermostat shut oil flow completely or is there some bypass? I think the oil cooler still provides a big degree of cooling even with the intake air blocked , but slowing or blocking oil flow altogether should make a much bigger difference. I don't know where the cooler gets it's supply from in the oil circuit but obviously you have  figured that out and determined that it is ok to restrict flow through it. I imagine you will be comparing temp data from before and after the install , a lot of variables to consider certainly. No one does that stuff better that you. 
Will be looking forward to hearing how it all works out.  Nice work

[Wayne Orwig]

I'll never understand why they did not put a thermostat on the 8V motors on the oil cooler. It takes way to long to get the oil to a temp where it will cook off the moisture, and where the motor isn't needing too much fuel.

You can even get oil coolers that have the thermostat built in.

[pete roper]

I'll never understand why they did not put a thermostat on the 8V motors on the oil cooler. It takes way to long to get the oil to a temp where it will cook off the moisture, and where the motor isn't needing too much fuel.

You can even get oil coolers that have the thermostat built in.

Cost. You can always depend on them to spoil an otherwise good product by making nasty, cheap, little economies.

[dguzzi]

Do you have a way to check the temperature or do Griso's  (Grisi ?)  have a readout?

[Markcarovilli]

I likey....

Let us know how it works.

Mark

[Ncdan]

It's great to see the big orange mechine back on the road👍

[Bulldog9]

Looks great. Thinking about this on the Norge, assume it doesn't have a thermostat either.

[beetle]

Do you have a way to check the temperature or do Griso's  (Grisi ?)  have a readout?

I'll be using ScanM5X to monitor the engine data real-time from the ECU. I also have a Trail-Tech digital temperature gauge, but it measures head temperature and is affected by air cooling itself.

It occurs to me that I could add a sensor port and directly measure the actual oil temperature feed to the heads. Hmm...

[beetle]

Does the thermostat shut oil flow completely or is there some bypass? I think the oil cooler still provides a big degree of cooling even with the intake air blocked , but slowing or blocking oil flow altogether should make a much bigger difference. I don't know where the cooler gets it's supply from in the oil circuit but obviously you have  figured that out and determined that it is ok to restrict flow through it. I imagine you will be comparing temp data from before and after the install , a lot of variables to consider certainly. No one does that stuff better that you. 
Will be looking forward to hearing how it all works out.  Nice work

Oil is pulled from the sump and fed directly to the radiator. Then up to the heads.









From the Improved Racing website:




There will be a lot of data!


The final straw for me was a while I was riding a couple of months ago. I was on a logging run, and my chosen 'logging' road runs due South. There was a cool Northerly blowing. Ambient temp was 24C (perfect riding weather). I had trouble keeping the engine temp above 95. Just idling while facing North, the engine temp plummeted to below 89. Riding Northward, the temperature went down to the low 80's. I had to keep riding Southward to get the engine hotter!

[Murray]

I'll never understand why they did not put a thermostat on the 8V motors on the oil cooler.

740 reasons each worth 1 pacfic paso.

[PJPR01]

Impressive!! That’s another good reason to keep the 1400 engine around...eventually more people may want to drop them into a Griso!

[lucian]

Now I get it. Thanks for sharing that Mark.  One would hope that full flow volume is maintained whether in bypass or in thru cooler , or when valve is somewhere in between.

[pete roper]

Impressive!! That’s another good reason to keep the 1400 engine around...eventually more people may want to drop them into a Griso!

It's a long, long way from a simple drop in.

We've done two now. The one in Mark's bike was a build where we used a 1200 block but then used a 1400 crank, (For the balance factor.) and 1400 barrels and pistons. The biggest issue is that the cooling circuit on the 1400's is completely incompatible with that of the 1200 so there is a lot of embuggerance involved machining new oilways and the like.

The other one is a swap using a 1400 motor from a wrecked Cali and making it work with the big-port, single spark heads of the 1200. This one is now running in my Stelvio and it has been an absolute prick to get right. There are several really big and annoying differences between the 1200 and 1400 motor and timing systems that make going this way an absolute frontbottom of a job! If I were doing it again I'd simply rip the crank and barrels and pistons out of the 1400 and put them into the 1200! Really. It's much easier! You still have to do the machining of the heads and sensor relocation though.

Pete

[beetle]

Well, first test tide was quite promising. Unfortunately, the weather here was quite warm. Ambient temp was around 28C, so I look forward to a cooler day for further tests.

Engine temp was 71C when I started logging. It took 4 minutes to get to 100C. Peak temp was 115C, with an average of 109C over a 33 minute ride. For those interested in the raw data, you can download the log (in excel format) from my drop box.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9quva61f4cikjx/1400-ScanLog-0406-1544.xls?dl=0


The hardware performed flawlessly. No leaks. 

[Pizza Guzzi]

Looks like you're onto a winner 👍

Glenn

[jacksonracingcomau]

 
discussed here 10 years ago
well done, action not words

[beetle]

Second test ride results were very encouraging. Despite a small oil leak because I hadn't tightened one of the connectors properly. 

There may need to be "tweaks" down the line as I test, but after the last ride, I'm convinced. The engine temperature took 4 minutes and 48 seconds to hit 100C from ambient of 23C. Then it varied between 105 - 113 during the fun bit. At cruise, it was rock steady at 107. I couldn't be happier with it.

[PJPR01]

It's a long, long way from a simple drop in.

We've done two now. The one in Mark's bike was a build where we used a 1200 block but then used a 1400 crank, (For the balance factor.) and 1400 barrels and pistons. The biggest issue is that the cooling circuit on the 1400's is completely incompatible with that of the 1200 so there is a lot of embuggerance involved machining new oilways and the like.

The other one is a swap using a 1400 motor from a wrecked Cali and making it work with the big-port, single spark heads of the 1200. This one is now running in my Stelvio and it has been an absolute prick to get right. There are several really big and annoying differences between the 1200 and 1400 motor and timing systems that make going this way an absolute frontbottom of a job! If I were doing it again I'd simply rip the crank and barrels and pistons out of the 1400 and put them into the 1200! Really. It's much easier! You still have to do the machining of the heads and sensor relocation though.

Pete

Pete....I can imagine a fair amount of cussing and knuckle busting was involved to do both of those heart transplants, and it's great to see the results of imagination and persistence come thru.  Just out of curiosity, and assuming it were possible to marry up w/o modifications to the transmission and other mounting challenges, what is the weight difference between the original 1200 8V engine vs the 1400 engine? 

Cheers!

[pete roper]

It's negligible. A kilo or so at most.

[tris]

That's a very elegant solution Mark - Bravo 

Would the 1100 2v(4V?) Breva benefit from a similar modification?

[Wayne Orwig]

There may need to be "tweaks" down the line as I test, but after the last ride, I'm convinced. The engine temperature took 4 minutes and 48 seconds to hit 100C from ambient of 23C. Then it varied between 105 - 113 during the fun bit. At cruise, it was rock steady at 107. I couldn't be happier with it.

Sure sounds like a good thing.
I assume that is head temp.
Under 5 minutes to 100C should keep the moisture out. Wonder if it helps the fuel economy.

[rocker59]

Impressive!! That’s another good reason to keep the 1400 engine around...eventually more people may want to drop them into a Griso!

Personally, I would like a 1400cc retro standard, based on the Bellagio.

[beetle]

That's a very elegant solution Mark - Bravo 

Would the 1100 2v(4V?) Breva benefit from a similar modification?

The Breva 1100 already has a thermostat in the oil cooling system.





 

Sure sounds like a good thing.
I assume that is head temp.
Under 5 minutes to 100C should keep the moisture out. Wonder if it helps the fuel economy.

It's "engine temperature", which in my case is measured by a sensor in the oil return cavity in the barrel. It's affected by both oil and barrel temperature. I have an external sensor on the outer part of the head which measures ~5 degrees cooler.






I think better fuel economy will be a result.

[dguzzi]

Nice work, I love this kind of stuff. Done right its a great addition. Similar to adding the oil psi gauge to a Commando. Several ways to do it and very helpful
to the rider.

[jacksonracingcomau]

The Breva 1100 already has a thermostat in the oil cooling system.



It's "engine temperature", which in my case is measured by a sensor in the oil return cavity in the barrel. It's affected by both oil and barrel temperature. I have an external sensor on the outer part of the head which measures ~5 degrees cooler.




I think better fuel economy will be a result.

makes sense to me, mpg results will tell story
my sb 8v far more fuel efficient than my 2v bb at same pace
this may even up huzos 8v bb v 4v mpg anomolies
presuming his norge has thermostat ?

[Kiwi Dave]

presuming his norge has thermostat ?

Confirming the Norge (and the 1200 Sport) 2V have the thermostat.  I don't think the 8V models do.

[Muzz]

Is there anything that this man can't do?

Pity the factory didn't do this from the gitgo.

[tris]

The Breva 1100 already has a thermostat in the oil cooling system.

Whoops 

[Huzo]

this may even up huzos 8v bb v 4v mpg anomolies

Now when have I ever raised THAT topic..