Griso Stuck in Lexington Ky, Probably water in gas

[antmanbee]

After sitting out in the rain for a couple of days I was all packed up and ready to go and the bike started right up and ran about 30 seconds and then started sputtering. I filled up with gas yesterday when the rain cleared for a hour or so and when I opened the cap I noticed water in the well around the tank filler hole that was not draining. I soaked it out with some paper towels but I had a feeling that some water went in to the gas tank. I don't know this for sure but I suspect it. I ran a 10 inch section of bottom E guitar string down the hole and did not find any obstruction but I am not sure if 10" is long enough. I also blew through a hose pressed to the drain hole and could blow freely.
So I need a couple of suggestions, one, is the easiest way to clear the fuel line without major disassembly and two, other possible causes like wet ignition. I mostly suspect the gas because the bike started yesterday fine after sitting out in heavy extensive rain and it also started right up today until the probable water made it's way into the system.
Thanks

[Don G]

Had that problem once on my 04 EV, sat out in the rainy season @ work, found the ignition switch was full of water, hosed it out with WD-40, never missed a beat after that.  DonG

[oldbike54]

  ^^^^  In this instance WD 40 is your friend . Spray the spark plug caps and wires , anything that was exposed .

 Dusty

[antmanbee]

I got some wd40 so I will do that, but I am pretty sure some water got into the tank when I opened the cap up.
Also the fact that the bike started right up and ran smoothly for 30-60 seconds before sputtering out makes me think the plugs/wires are ok.

[Craig in Alabama]

Hi Antmanbee,

Maybe some of that Heet additive would clear it up if you could get to an auto parts store.

Good luck!
Craig

[antmanbee]

Thanks, I thought about the stuff that you can add that absorbs the water but I had forgot the name. Heet will probably help.
I was looking at the injectors and if I can get the allen bolts loosened I can hook up my guzzi diag and pulse the injectors un till I think they have expelled the water. Then add the Heet.
That's my best plan at this point.

[twowheeladdict]

Thanks, I thought about the stuff that you can add that absorbs the water but I had forgot the name. Heet will probably help.
I was looking at the injectors and if I can get the allen bolts loosened I can hook up my guzzi diag and pulse the injectors un till I think they have expelled the water. Then add the Heet.
That's my best plan at this point.

Don't forget to bring your ID when you go to purchase Heet.  It is a controlled substance according to the person when I last bought some. 

I guess the druggies are huffing it or something.   

Personally, I would drain the fuel, add fresh, as well as some Heet.  Otherwise it might take a while to clear up.  Just my opinion. 

[SmithSwede]

Dry gas can’t hurt.  But I strongly suspect this is wet electrics.     Pull the plugs and see if you get a spark.

If not, Spray WD40 promiscuously on everything that’s ignition related.  Remove spark caps and spray WD40 into the cap itself.   I’d probably unscrew it from the wires and spray that end too.

I’ve had this happen to me several times when bike sat outside in pouring rain.  Even had it start and run a while, then stop.   I think you can create steam that goes into bad places, or the vibrations moves water where it doesn’t belong.

I’m not sure how the Griso is set up, but the modern V7s do not have an effective “drip loop” like the old ones.   Water on the wires is directed to drain directly into the spark plug caps.

If you do have spark, spray starter fluid into throttle body and see if it lights off. 

[Bigtime]

Ant-Man,  PM me if you're still stuck in Lex.  Maybe I can help.  goldgooz@hotmail.com

[antmanbee]

Well I got most of the water out by pulsing the injectors. A lot of water came out the left downhill side, probably 10cc and just a few cc's on the right.
I was able to get the injector bolts loose and had the injectors spray into clear cups. Guzzidiag to the rescue.
The bike starts now but is still sputtering a bit but I can keep it running.
I am going to the store now for some Heet to absorb or disperse what water is left in the tank.
I still need to get something long enough to make sure the drain hole in clear around the filler neck.
I will update later after I add the heet and run it a bit around the neighborhood here. 

[antmanbee]

Ant-Man,  PM me if you're still stuck in Lex.  Maybe I can help.  goldgooz@hotmail.com

Thanks, Bigtime

I will know in a hour or two if I have to get more extensive on the repair. I am at the house where my daughter and her girl friend live and they have no covered area. So I am at the mercy of the weather. Fortunately the weather cleared long enough to break out my laptop and my cables to clear the injectors. There is still a bit of water left but hopefully not much.

[pyoungbl]

Water is going to fall to the bottom of the tank.  I agree that Heet is going to be your best bet.  I had a similar problem a year ago on another brand of bike.  It took a bottle of Heet and running the bike down to 1/2 tank so I could put in new fuel.  I was getting an occasional sputter until I had run the entire 5 gallons out of the tank.  The water, being on the bottom of the tank, was still sloshing to the fuel line from time to time.  My riding buddy, a marine engine expert, opined that water molecules are so much larger than fuel molecules that they won't pass through the fine holes found in modern fuel injectors...thus the problem.  At any rate, my problem was finally solved.  There is a company that makes a fuel filter that drops into the tank.  The media is fine enough to stop water and debris but not fuel.  This is like a fine mesh sock.  If I were going to a 3rd world country I'd want the sock.

[Tom H]

If your moat drain tube is like the one on my EVT, there is a little tip of metal that covers the hole on the top side to keep debris out.

With my bike I had to remove the tank to clean it from the bottom. I'm sure it could be done with just lifting it a bit.

I found the best thing to clean it with was a short length of speedo cable about a foot long. Chuck the cable in a drill and use it like a sewer drain cleaning machine. I was not able to just push the cable up the tube, but with the drill twisting it, it went right up. Pull it back out frequently to wipe it clean and repeat until you see it at the top.

Good luck,
Tom

[Wayne Orwig]

8V Griso? Don't forget those spark plug wires. Dry them and maybe WD40 them.

[malik]

Did you try the old standby - half a cup of metho (methylated spirits) in with the fuel? - combines with the water in there & burns off. In theory,

[antmanbee]

Dumped half a bottle of Heet in the tank. The bottle said it treats 20 gallons and I used half in 4.5 gallons.
I rode it a mile or so up and down the street right after mixing in the Heet and it now will idle but still coughs occasionally.
Maybe the heet will need some more time to be more effective.
I think it runs well enough to ride as  it is not stalling out and mostly has smooth power.
There does not appear to be any ignition problems and this is an 1100 2V so it is not plagued with the same 4V wire issues.
If the weather clears for a while I will be on my way again tomorrow. NC here I come!

[antmanbee]

I have a question regarding the drain hole for the moat around the tank filler.
I got whole  full length lower E guitar string and shoved it in the hole.
It went in about a foot and no further. Does the hole make a somewhat sharp bend? Is it normal for a wire to stop at this point?
It seems as if I can blow into the hole and not feel that it is obstructed. I don't think it is draining though.

[Tom H]

My drain is not a straight tube, it spirals. I read that this allowed for expansion of the tank without pulling the tube loose.

Again, I could not just slide the speedo cable in, I had to twist it. Also I have to go in from the bottom of the tank. The top opening has a little nib of metal covering it.

Try a few drops of light oil and see if they drain, I read here that is one way to check.

Tom

[twowheeladdict]

Thanks, Bigtime

I will know in a hour or two if I have to get more extensive on the repair. I am at the house where my daughter and her girl friend live and they have no covered area. So I am at the mercy of the weather. Fortunately the weather cleared long enough to break out my laptop and my cables to clear the injectors. There is still a bit of water left but hopefully not much.

Pick up a 5x7 tarp while you are at the store.   

[Mike Craven]

I had the water in the Norge problem and it was a quart (yes, almost a liter) of water!  I knew after I lifted the tank and poured it out.  My guess is you could siphon out the 'mixture' you have and try new gas and new water dissolving treatment.  (I have used stale or 2-cycle or lousy gas at about 1:10 good gallons in my daily driver car without problems.)

It was funny that I test rode my Norge just a few blocks, everything was good, then after loading up my camping gear I only made it another block before stuttering and stalling.  Now I know how much clean gas is in the tubes and fuel filter... about a few blocks of running worth.

Painters masking tape would probably safely seal the filler temporarily while parked.
I had kinked the drain tube when I crammed it back by the battery and relays space.  I'm sure that caused it not to drain quickly enough during a rainstorm.
Good luck,
-Mike-

[antmanbee]

I have a tarp covering the bike tonight. I will tape some plastic over the cap tomorrow before I head out.
I will need to gas up about 2 more times tomorrow.
I don't want to pull the tank till I get back to Florida. It was full to the brim today and as far as I know there is no way to drain it.

[pete roper]

Might it also be the precursor to the fuel filter failing? My other thought was the hose getting ready to blow off but that is an either 'Go' or 'No Go' failure.

Pete

[Darren Williams]

Might it also be the precursor to the fuel filter failing? My other thought was the hose getting ready to blow off but that is an either 'Go' or 'No Go' failure.

Pete

When my fuel filter split, I checked it over closely (dissected it basically) and I feel pretty confident the failure was a result of the crimp in one section not being put together well. Meaning the plastic part that came out had not been set into the metal crimp as deep as the rest of the crimped plastic that held. When first taken out of the tank, the plastic part was somewhat soft. How much of an effect that has, I don't know.  I also suspect that if the crimp failed in a small enough portion, where only a small spray of gas was escaping, the pump might be able to overcome that amount of loss, for awhile until it gets bigger, which it probably would. My experience was running fine and then engine just shut off with no stumble or any other notice.

[guzzimatic]

I had the problem of the moat around the fuel cap not draining,tried various wires to no avail. I pulled the tank,traced which was the drain hose to a metal hose barb. It was completely blocked with white mineral residue! The hose barb is aluminum add water and oxide eventually closes it off...I had to use a small drill bit to carefully remove the crud,it was hard as a rock and no amount of pushing with a wire would budge it. As someone else stated a drilling action was necessary to remove it.I just clamped the drill in mini vice grips and did it by hand.Took a while to figure that one out...

[twowheeladdict]

I guess it is wrong to assume that a motorcycle is designed to be left outside and ridden in the rain.   

[Cam3512]

I travel with half cover for rallies and hotel stays.  Go ahead and flame me tough guys, but the next day the top half of the bike, and my ass stays dry.  Funny how everyone waits until the first guy covers his bike at the rally, then others follow suit.

[antmanbee]

I got out of Lexington today. Yeah!!

Lexington on Monday and Tuesday, this is where I was working on the bike.



 
The weather was pretty good today and I mostly managed to stay between storms and just got light to medium rain a few times.
The bike ran perfect for the first 380 miles, not so much as a sputter.
The last 50 miles, the bike started coughing and sputtering and dropping out pretty frequently, but never died.
The last 50 miles were the driest of the trip, the sun was shining.
I and the bike made it to NCDans and tomorrow we will siphon out the remaining gas and replace it with some non ethanol gas.
We did manage to blow out the drain line with compressed air and we heard a sound of something getting expelled from the tube and then we flushed it with wd40.
When I get home to Florida the tank is coming off and the internal fuel filter and hose will be replaced.
I will probably cut off the plastic molded on fuel line to the injectors and replace it with regular fuel hose with the proper clamps.
 

[antmanbee]

I had another thought about the cutting out of the bike late in the day after running perfect to 380 miles.
When I stopped at NCDans and opened the gas cap there was a whoosh sound of air going into the tank.
There was obviously a vacuum. Maybe this was the cause of the cutting out and it is not related to the original problem of the water in the tank.
What is the resolution on the Griso for this?

[twowheeladdict]

I travel with half cover for rallies and hotel stays.  Go ahead and flame me tough guys, but the next day the top half of the bike, and my ass stays dry.  Funny how everyone waits until the first guy covers his bike at the rally, then others follow suit.

That's just plain silly. 

I cover my bikes as soon as they are cool enough to do so, to protect them from the UV rays as well as the dew and rain.   

[janguzzi]

I had another thought about the cutting out of the bike late in the day after running perfect to 380 miles.
When I stopped at NCDans and opened the gas cap there was a whoosh sound of air going into the tank.
There was obviously a vacuum. Maybe this was the cause of the cutting out and it is not related to the original problem of the water in the tank.
What is the resolution on the Griso for this?

Lift the tank and check if these connectors are blocked.



I also had the vacuum problem and mine were blocked (limescale and dirt maybe).