California 1100 or a Used Sportster for Daily Ride/Tourer?

[Castorp]

Hi to you all,

I have been interested in Guzzis and lurking here for a long while but I don't believe I have ever posted before.

I currently ride a 2009 ex500. I got it 4 year ago with 5k on it, and I've put about 70K miles more on it so far and it's been a good daily ride/beater bike/pack mule for touring. My only problems with it are 1). I Hate fixing broken plastics  2) Getting to the valves for the frequent checks takes a lot of work  3) it's not the greatest for 2 up riding and finally 4) though the engine has ever given me a problem, it's gonna wear out sooner or later, and from what I understand it's not the most rebuildable of motors. (Ex riders sometimes do, but generally recommend swapping them out with salvage engines instead)   


So I've been thinking about bikes that might not have these problems, while keeping things I do like: simplicity,manageable power, reasonable weight/size. Dependability.  And the two bikes that check all of these boxes, at least in theory, are the  California 1100 and a used Sportster with mid controls (probably a rubber mounted).  I keep hearing they're both easy to work on, and I like it. I keep hearing they're both really sturdy and long lasting. I like that too. They're both under 600lbs.  So many  things I hear, I like about both of these bikes. 


But I have little experience with sportster (test ride only) and none with Moto Guzzi, so I don't know the reality.  I've read enough of these forums to know that a lot of you have had sportsters  in addition to guzzis. So I was hoping you all could help me, telling me things I might need to know.

To be clear: I need this bike for basic transportation and touring.  I like to do all the maintenance myself. I am usually willing to learn to do repairs myself. And if I love it as much as I hope to love it, I want to hold onto it for a really long time (with luck).  One of the things that attracts me to Guzzi are all those stories about all those super high mileage bikes.

Main concerns: 
Am I going to have difficulty finding parts I will need for a California 1100?
Will I have to wait forever to get them?
Are they going to be terribly expensive?
How would you compare running costs between the two bikes?
For the purposes I describe (practical, simple, DIY transportation in the U.S.A), which do you think is best?
 
Many of the California 1100s in my area that come up for sale are generally "high" miles (50k +) from the 2000s.  I know to ask for records if any. I know to look for signs of the bike has been crashed. But are there some more Guzzi-California 1100 specific things  I should be looking for?

The sportys usually have much lower miles but have nearly always been customized and I woudl be looking one customized as much as possible the way I want. 

I hope to be going to look at some bikes soon, but any experiences/info/advice/anecdotes/stories/recommendations you all could give would be greatly appreciated.

 Thanks!



       

[Adk.IBO]

Welcome, I had a 2009 Norge. Never stranded me, mostly pretty easy to maintain and overall a good ride. At my height and weight (5’3” 130#) I ended up tipping it over 3 times and that was enough for me. My 2017 Roadster is the first road bike I can flat foot. I had to raise the bars, change the seat, and purchase good shocks. If I try I can get 60mpg, maintenance is incredibly easy and it stops and turns well enough to keep me entertained. Parts and accessories are abundantly available and the dealer network can’t be beat. I was 6 hrs to my Moto Guzzi dealer and then he up and died... I would suggest test rides and choose the one that speaks to you. Best of luck on your search!

[Dharma Bum]

For what you seem to be looking for, you can't go wrong with either option.  I put 73K on a Guzzi 1100 and performed all my own maintenance including a clutch rebuild.  Very satisfying machine to own.

[LowRyter]

I don't consider a Sportster to be a serious motorcycle.  They vibrate and don't much of anything well. 

The California is jack of trade type of bike that is smooth, handles well, lots of fun and has many touring accessories. 

[inditx]

I don't consider a Sportster to be a serious motorcycle.  They vibrate and don't much of anything well. 

The California is jack of trade type of bike that is smooth, handles well, lots of fun and has many touring accessories.

What LowRyter said and don’t think about 2 up riding with a Sportie

[fotoguzzi]

Ask yourself why all the Sportster have low mileage then seriously find a nice Guzzi. I'd suggest 1998 and later. Nothing wrong with the Call 1100 up to 98 but the EV got a few nice upgrades, tubeless rims, cheaper TPS, better Brembos etc.. 
the 2003 EV came with hydraulic lifters but do diligent research before you jump on one of them.

2000 Bassa one of my favorites.

[s1120]

I like sportsters..  But really Im not sure I would trade my 02 cali stone for one. Just as fun around town, and IMHO much nicer on the highway.

[Kev m]

Well the first few posters had it right then a couple of guys who know Jack about the modern Sporty had to chime in.

Starting in 04 the Sportster was reborn into an excellent motorcycle. It got better in 07 with EFI, better again in 14' with brake improvements, better again by 16 with suspension improvements.

That said our 05 and 07s, especially the 07 1200Lr were very good bikes and VERY comparable to my 00 Cali Jackal 1100.

As a matter of fact the Sporty was smoother and more comfortable than the Jackal, made similar power, and was close but second place to the Jackal in handling.

It also handled 2-up just as well as the Jackal, though we only tended to do that when Jenn and I had just dropped off another bike or a car for some reason.

You could go with either, though for ease of repair/maintenance on a daily commuter I would probably give the advantage to the Sportster.

[Kev m]

PS you see so many used ones because since 2004 they produced and sold around 1M of them.

[ivantheterrible]

really liked my sportster and have only owned my ev11 for a short time so I can't claim to be an expert but I have opinions.

Long trips with some interstate travel---ev11.

Ease of maintenance --can't really comment on the ev11 as it came to me ready for the road, so I haven't done much to it but the sportser is hard to beat for ease of maintenance. No valve adjustment, belt drive, easy oil change.lot's of Harley dealers around so it's nice to walk into a place and buy parts instead of having to order them.

One thing I like about the Moto Guzzi is it's nice to be adding a little spice and variety to the motorcycle echo system instead of another HD

[kballowe]

If I wanted a seriously reliable motorcycle for commuting then I would get a Honda or a Yamaha.

Limiting the choices to a Moto Guzzi or a Harley Sportster - then I'd have to pick the Sportster.  Reliable, easy to service, unbelievable parts, mechanical, and aftermarket support.

2007 or later would be my choice for a Sportster.

[Lannis]

One thing I like about the Moto Guzzi is it's nice to be adding a little spice and variety to the motorcycle echo system instead of another HD

It's one thing I like about my Guzzis too.   You don't see yourself coming down the road the other way every 10 minutes.   But that doesn't matter to some folks.

Lannis

[BillinPA]

Interesting responses. Here is my .02. I wouldn't worry much about a Cali 1100 with 50k miles. They are good for many more. I have a 2001 EV with 75k, it shares the duties with another Guzzi a beemer and 3 HD.
That being said, I love the EV!!!
Now about the sportster, very underappreciated bikes. Sized really close to the 1100 Guzzis, very reliable, as much or more power......annndddd dd parts and accessories are everywhere.

[Guzzitenn]

I looking at a 98 V11 EV tomorrow, xless than 20k, looks like great condition
What do you guys think?

[fotoguzzi]

98 EV, solid work horse. Tubeless rims

[inditx]

Hey KevM I know Jack.....see what I did there. 
inditx aka Jack

[Kev m]

Hey KevM I know Jack.....see what I did there. 
inditx aka Jack

 

[Adk.IBO]

Hey Lannis, not once in almost 25,000 miles have I seen myself coming down the road...

 

Not saying Guzzi isn’t a great choice, it is. How many Sportsters, Guzzis (motorcycles other than Goldwings) have you seen pulling a trailer? I pulled the same trailer with my Norge. And really, I don’t give a rat’s patutti...

[randy yocum]

I have a 98 EV since 2009,it has turned 70,000 trouble free miles,allot of those 2 up and pulling a trailer i'm still on the original clutch,I vote EV.
    I remember when it came out in 98 it was voted bike of the year for its category It beat out many good motorcycles for the title,one thing that always stuck in my head that they said the 98 EV it has the mother of all front ends,really robust.

[Guzzistajohn]

When you say "Daily ride/tourer" that sounds like a bike that might spend some time in the weather. I wouldn't do that to a nice Cali. I'd ride red. Go HONDA.

[ivantheterrible]

the Sportster I had handled fine but I'm very pleasantly surprised at how well the Ev11 handles. can't go wrong either way.

[fotoguzzi]

[LowRyter]

Well the first few posters had it right then a couple of guys who know Jack about the modern Sporty had to chime in.

Starting in 04 the Sportster was reborn into an excellent motorcycle. It got better in 07 with EFI, better again in 14' with brake improvements, better again by 16 with suspension improvements.

That said our 05 and 07s, especially the 07 1200Lr were very good bikes and VERY comparable to my 00 Cali Jackal 1100.

As a matter of fact the Sporty was smoother and more comfortable than the Jackal, made similar power, and was close but second place to the Jackal in handling.

It also handled 2-up just as well as the Jackal, though we only tended to do that when Jenn and I had just dropped off another bike or a car for some reason.

You could go with either, though for ease of repair/maintenance on a daily commuter I would probably give the advantage to the Sportster.

So you're agreeing that before '04 Sporsters were crap?  And we know Californias have been consistently good bikes?

OK.  And we don't know which years of either bikes the poster was looking for.....  I'd say there is a single universal answer.  And it ain't a Sportster. 

[Kevin M]

I’ve owned & been around motorcycles a long time, I haven’t seen too many Harleys with 250000 plus miles still running around. Most parts can be ordered online & in your hand in a few days. There is a great number of knowledgeable owners to ask questions or receive help from. I think the biggest value to Guzzi is the people. If all things were equal, I would choose Guzzi hands down. In my mind they are more reliable, stop better, handle better & are more unique. Anyone can own a Harley. I would encourage you to go to a rally or a monthly Guzzi gathering & check it out. What part of the country are you in?

[LowRyter]

Kevin M and Kev m?

Oh screw me.  I need apologize to someone but not the other.   

The Cali

[Kev m]

So you're agreeing that before '04 Sporsters were crap?  And we know Californias have been consistently good bikes?

Crap? I dunno, one man's garbage is another man's treasure.

To me the solidmount ones definitely fit the bill you sold a lot more. I mean I had a 93 for 2.5 years (93-95), put 40k on it (commuting, touring, 2-up etc.) and when I sold it I swore I WOULD NOT BUY ANOTHER. Yeah, it vibrated, like put your hands and feet to sleep vibrated. That and some limited suspension was the biggest problem.

That said, I later softened that stance and with multiple bikes in the garage I could happily own a solidmount for "local" duty.

OK.  And we don't know which years of either bikes the poster was looking for.....  I'd say there is a single universal answer.  And it ain't a Sportster.

I dunno, the single universal answer thing seems to be pulling at straws. And what year? What does it matter, both the early-rubbermount Sportys and the Tonti Cali's have bottomed in value. You can pick up a decent version of either for around $2-3k.


That said, my less than stellar experience with the ancillary components on my Tonti Cali would likely push ME toward a Sporty. Not that a Cali couldn't/wouldn't fit the bill. But when I sold my Jackal I was at a point where I didn't think I could ever own 2 Guzzis again at the same time, and I was positive I would NEVER own JUST ONE, because I would want/need a spare. Thankfully that has gotten better with each subsequent Guzzi I've owned.

My big question for the OP is how hands on he wants to be with his bike, does he have support in the way of a DECENT local shop (someone big enough in the Guzzi world that we know them) and how much is he screwed if it lets him down? You can't escape the fact that there's support for HD's everywhere in this country and that parts are generally much more available. Of course barring something bizarre it's not hard to get MOST things for a Cali.

I think it comes down to the OP, his wants/needs, and the particular bike.

I’ve owned & been around motorcycles a long time, I haven’t seen too many Harleys with 250000 plus miles still running around. Most parts can be ordered online & in your hand in a few days. There is a great number of knowledgeable owners to ask questions or receive help from. I think the biggest value to Guzzi is the people. If all things were equal, I would choose Guzzi hands down. In my mind they are more reliable, stop better, handle better & are more unique. Anyone can own a Harley. I would encourage you to go to a rally or a monthly Guzzi gathering & check it out. What part of the country are you in?

Look the truth is MOST people don't ride a bike 100k, never mine 200k. That said you will stumble across a Guzzi, a BMW, a Harley, and YES a 2006 Rubbermount Sporty with that kind of miles (actually this one I wrote about is not even the first I encountered):

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/would-you-ride-the-iron-butt-rally-on-a-sportster

[kidsmoke]

For the riding you say you want to do, you already nailed it down to two bikes that will meet the need. I think it really boils down to the ACTUAL motorcycles you find once you get started.

KevM shared already that his Jackal (2000-2001 bare bones Cali 1100) had a lot of issues that regularly needed addressing. That's the opposite of my experience, but only because I bought well (25K on  the clock, and from a pro mechanic) so it was fully sorted. In my 7 years of ownership I've had a snapped throttle cable and a bad relay. In both cases I had OEM parts in 48 hours, so MY experience with the bike has been excellent.  Through this forum and being generally sociable, I also have a group of VERY knowledgeable friends in both the cyber and literal sense, so I'm comfortable with the 'risk'. I'm happy doing my own maintenance, and with the aforementioned friends close-by, If i get in trouble, I'll have good council.

Check these sites for pricing on things you think you may need, from gaskets to controls to brake pads. They'll get the parts in out the door the day you order in most cases, and know our machines inside and out. You can decided if that's adequate parts support for the do it yourselfer. No debate that the Harley gets you better parts and service options, particularly if you're a checkbook rider.

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=index

http://www.harpermoto.com/


Man o man, do I love riding my bike. Loaded for camping, Two up, or naked for local geo tagging, I simply don't NEED any thing else.

[Kev m]

KevM shared already that his Jackal (2000-2001 bare bones Cali 1100) had a lot of issues that regularly needed addressing. That's the opposite of my experience, but only because I bought well (25K on  the clock, and from a pro mechanic) so it was fully sorted.

TO BE FAIR.... I can't say if my Jackal was an outlier because of the BIKE or it's history.

I bought FROM A DEALER, with ~1k miles on it.

But the bike was 3 years old, and it was from FL - might have sat out in the sun, too close to the ocean for a few years.

Still in 40k miles I had to:

* Fork seals (leaked on the way home)
* Shocks (leaked oil on the first trip)
* Replace all rubber hoses, started with cracking breathers but eventually included fuel lines.
* Replace the braided steel breather hoses too
* Ignition switch (crapped out on the Blue Ridge Parkway)
* Battery (ok that's typical)
* Regulator (long after the battery)
* Starter
* Rear fender rusted through by year 3 or 4
* Spokes and rims were rusted by year 1 or 2
* Rear main was dripping by year 1 or 2 (never fixed, never got THAT bad)
* Constant issues with the stupid steel ball actuated front brake switch, until I go smart and replaced it with a pressure switch
* Tail Light - first the turn signals broke the housing, then the housing was basically crumbling around the lights as I attempted to save it. Eventually gave up and replaced fender and tail light with custom pieces.

Meanwhile the seat remained a torture rack the whole life of the bike.

It was cosmetically challenged from a design standpoint.

I spent years getting it right in terms of bags, racks, backrest, windshields, mirrors, powdercoating and painting stuff... etc etc etc

STILL, in all that, the BIKE ITSELF, like rolling down the road, was FANTASTIC. The motor was SOLID, the chassis strong and capable.

Somehow it remains one of the favorite bikes I ever owned DESPITE the trials and tribulations. But the tribulations eventually won and broke me.

A few pics - BEFORE - AFTER - OTHERS

NEW:



Blue Ridge - Making a New Ignition Switch



Something Old, Something New, Nothing Borrowed, Trying not to sing the Blues:



Sometimes you just need a drink:



Meanwhile it shared the stable with this (among others):

Most of the years I owned the Jackal it shared the garage with this (among others):




It would still be in the fleet if I hadn't bought an RK making it redundant:




Still, after I sold the Jackal Guzzi was kind enough to come out with something that seemed to address everything the Jackal was lacking (for me):




But I DO THINK MOST of my experience with the Jackal was an outlier and that a Cali Tonti CAN be a great/reliable machine. I just don't think I would take the risk if it were to be the ONE AND ONLY COMMUTER. (Now if the EX is staying around as backup, go for it).

[oldbike54]

 Just for some balance , my Jackal is currently taking a long break with 150K miles or so under her wheels and never even took a day off until she had about 90 K miles .

 Dusty

[Castorp]

thanks so much to you all for the responses and the pics!

Kev m,  to answer your question, I want to be "hands on"--and I want to very free from dependence on shops and dealerships. I started out knowing nothing, but with the ex500 I ride now I learned to do valve checks, rear suspension service, replaced all the bearings and steering stem bearing, rebuilt forks, replaced tires and chains and cables and lines, rebuilt calipers, and I'm sure I did other service items I'm forgetting--but I have never been past the valves in the engine.  I did all of that because I had pretty awful experiences at both shops and dealerships in the beginning.  I realized it was better and cheaper to do the work myself and I decided that when I got another bike it would be more a pleasure to work on than the kawi.  I heard that the guzzis were this way--simple to work on--and that's the attraction for me. The other thing is durability. I've been riding the ex500 70k and I feel like I'm still getting to know the thing in many ways, and I think: it's a shame this engine won't last three times as long. So I read about those high mileage guzzis and thought: ah ha. And I also read years ago the Common Tread piece you linked. That's one of the first things to get me interested in sportys.   What scares me about the guzzi is all the talk about uneven quality. I truly do not want something that's going to leave me stranded on the side of the road. If I can fix it on the side of the road, that's okay. And again I don't want to be dependent on specialist mechanic. Coming here for advice is fantastic, but I want to be able to do things myself most of the time. That's one of the main reasons I'm considering these two bikes. And I'm posting here in part to see if people with real experience think what I'm thinkinng about them is true. 

Oh, and I think you mentioned weather. I ride all over the Southeastern U.S.A.  And  I plan to go beyond. I will be riding in heavy rains sometimes. I will ride in very hight heat--stop and go traffic in 100 plus temps.  I also ride when it's in the 30s. Pretty cold. Would any of this be a problem for the guzzi?  I wonder if the traffic and high heat situations woudl be bad for the sporty  too.

At least two of you mention Hondas and/or Yamahas are the really dependable bikes. I don't doubt it.  In fact another bike on my list (behind the guzzi and sporty) is an Nc700x. Main objection is the plastic. I am so tired of patching plastic--and looking at plastic I have badly patched and "touched up" with paint.  And having to remove plastic. And having to put the plastic back on... The nc700 would work for me in every other respect, I suspect. I think the sportys and guzzis are better looking but honestly I coudl look past that--but not more plastic. I look at other Japanese motorcycles with interest but it always falls short in some way. I don't want difficult-to-get-to valves. I do not want to deal with shims. I think the linkages in the rear suspensionn of these bikes is more complicated--and more time-consuming to service-- than I anyway need them to be and I look at the exposed rear shocks on the guzzis and sportys and think: yeah. 

Speaking of looks, I'm looking at the pics you all have posted of your Cali's and they really are such beautiful bikes. I'm TRYING not to be seduced by looks alone.

Another question, I may go look at one of the californias next week--one is a 2002 stone--can y'all give a guzzi noob any tips on what to look for and be on the look out for? I have read the advice on the This Old TRactor site, and i know some of the basic things to look for when buying  used bike in general. But if there are some specific guzzi warning signs for california's of this era, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks to you all again.  This is great site!