NGC Can someone explain KTM to me?

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I look at any KTM and it does nothing for me, they seem expensive, garish, complicated, and finicky.. Good gawd are they ugly to my eye

BUT BUT BUT

I know they have a rabid fanbase. No bike would be so sought after, unless it was a real gem in some way I'm not grasping.


When we talk about Guzzi, there seem to be common characteristics that arise again and again "soul, feel, simplicity, uniqueness, history". These are the attributes we desire, thats what brought us to Guzzi.

I dont know any darn thing about a KTM, except (purely anecdotal) that they are delicate machines that require much sorting and fettling and lots work to keep on the road....  All that may be false- just my preconceived notions!

So if you love KTM or have their bikes, can you quantify what makes them better or more desirable than say, a BMW adv bike or a Japanese dirt bike?  What is the 'it factor' that makes them so desirable to dirt/DS/ADV riders?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I ask because KTM has been on the forefront of my mind after watching their bicycles in the Tour de France this year, and my old boss owns the KTM/BMW dealership here in Avl...  I was in there two days ago and saw grown men nearly peeing themselves over the newest KTM such-and-such... But I looked at the bike and felt nothing

So in short, why do your love your KTM? What pulled you to it?
is it the ride? the engine? the look? the ownership group? The tech? The performance?

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Here's the B&B Hotels Team KTM from this year's tour... sweet ride. Love how impossibly thin the seatstays are

[jwinwi]

Haven't owned or ridden one myself. Heard they are expensive to service but the V twins make a wicked, spine tingling sound when ridden *properly*

[Dilliw]

Their 250 two strokes are popular around here because they are not marked as "for off road use only."  That means you can tag them unlike most of the Japanese models.  This really helps when you are moving from area to area and don't want to be a law breaker. 

The 500 Enduro is popular as it's less than 300lbs wet and has a six speed box.  I sold my DR350 a while ago but if I ever go that way again that's what I would chose.

My buddy had the Super Duke and sold it after one season.  Too extreme for him!

[Murray]

I look at any KTM and it does nothing for me, they seem expensive, garish, complicated, and finicky.. Good gawd are they ugly to my eye

BUT BUT BUT

I know they have a rabid fanbase. No bike would be so sought after, unless it was a real gem in some way I'm not grasping.


When we talk about Guzzi, there seem to be common characteristics that arise again and again "soul, feel, simplicity, uniqueness, history". These are the attributes we desire, thats what brought us to Guzzi.

I dont know any darn thing about a KTM, except (purely anecdotal) that they are delicate machines that require much sorting and fettling and lots work to keep on the road....  All that may be false- just my preconceived notions!

So if you love KTM or have their bikes, can you quantify what makes them better or more desirable than say, a BMW adv bike or a Japanese dirt bike?  What is the 'it factor' that makes them so desirable to dirt/DS/ADV riders?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I ask because KTM has been on the forefront of my mind after watching their bicycles in the Tour de France this year, and my old boss owns the KTM/BMW dealership here in Avl...  I was in there two days ago and saw grown men nearly peeing themselves over the newest KTM such-and-such... But I looked at the bike and felt nothing

So in short, why do your love your KTM? What pulled you to it?
is it the ride? the engine? the look? the ownership group? The tech? The performance?

Don't have one keep looking at a superduke GT, fragile and expensive is/was their dirt bikes back int he 90's they were making two stroke power with a four stroke when no one else was. If you look at  the Paris Dakar results, they are the factory that caused the bike section to be restricted to 450cc and 160kph when their 950's were doing 195kph across the dune of the Sahara, they are what Ducati is to world superbike racing.

You don't the road bikes for the styling you buy them for the ride and bike been built for the road rather than the race circuit been restricted to a capacity because it fits in with a homologation requirement or the extra 10hp up the top end because it helps on the Monza main straight is not a thing, so basically its the ride and the performance for road riding.

This might help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp4aIPHiYmQ

[PeteS]

You just have to ride one to appreciate them. Pretty much out perform any bike in its class. ie mid displacement singles.
If they only made a dual sport with a more sensible seating position, and how about rounding off those sharp edges. I agree they are ugly but way fun to ride.

Pete

[LowRyter]

I look at any KTM and it does nothing for me, they seem expensive, garish, complicated, and finicky.. Good gawd are they ugly to my eye

BUT BUT BUT

I know they have a rabid fanbase. No bike would be so sought after, unless it was a real gem in some way I'm not grasping.


When we talk about Guzzi, there seem to be common characteristics that arise again and again "soul, feel, simplicity, uniqueness, history". These are the attributes we desire, thats what brought us to Guzzi.

I dont know any darn thing about a KTM, except (purely anecdotal) that they are delicate machines that require much sorting and fettling and lots work to keep on the road....  All that may be false- just my preconceived notions!

So if you love KTM or have their bikes, can you quantify what makes them better or more desirable than say, a BMW adv bike or a Japanese dirt bike?  What is the 'it factor' that makes them so desirable to dirt/DS/ADV riders?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I ask because KTM has been on the forefront of my mind after watching their bicycles in the Tour de France this year, and my old boss owns the KTM/BMW dealership here in Avl...  I was in there two days ago and saw grown men nearly peeing themselves over the newest KTM such-and-such... But I looked at the bike and felt nothing

So in short, why do your love your KTM? What pulled you to it?
is it the ride? the engine? the look? the ownership group? The tech? The performance?

I agree with all you said.  I think the big appeal is performance.  Especially the newer models.  Their motto was "ready to race".  So consider them an Austrian Ducati coming from motocross rather than road racing. 

I've ridden three.  The 690 Duke, 990 Duke and the RC8 Superbike.   I thought the first two were overrating regarding performance, not the last one.

When I see one, I think how much it would cost to roll the dice.  I guess I lost interest when a workmate, an engineer, wouldn't even change the oil on his 990 Adventure because it's a major job.  Given my mechanical limitation, I knew they weren't for me.   

Still, that 890 series gets my attention but my goodness they are ugly motorcycles. 

[blu guzz]

my son has had 2.  a 450 4 stroke enduro style and currently a 250 2 stroke off road.  he seems to like them, but they are very tall. it is just a toy for him, so ease of maint., road going comfort and looks aren't important to him.  i have seen him do some pretty amazing things on the 250.

[Perazzimx14]

Its oaky if KTM doesn't speak to you the way Guzzi seems too. 

[fotoguzzi]

The sound of the RC8 is like a 4 stroke chainsaw on steroids if there was such a thing. They totally RIP.

[DesertPilot]

They're light, fast, expensive, and finicky.  For some people -- particularly here in Silicon Valley, where some people have plenty of money, want to show off their tech, but don't have time for any ride long enough to break it -- that's 4 for 4.

For members of my tribe, who have only just learned how to fashion primitive stone tools, and are still struggling with this 'master the use of fire' thing, that would only be 2 for 4.  Assuming we could count higher than 3. 

[Guzzistajohn]

I have a 250 4 stroke. It's a blast! The magic button is sooooo nice on a hillside when you're dang near whipped anyway 

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

The sound of the RC8 is like a 4 stroke chainsaw on steroids if there was such a thing. They totally RIP.

now that sounds intriguing

[usedtobefast]

KTM's roots of dirt bike racing seems to assume their owners care about light weight and performance and are willing to do needed maintenance & replacement of parts.

So if clutch plates are worn out at 15,000 miles a Honda guy might thing what the heck is this, but KTM guys would think that sounds reasonable. 

KTM 690's still have "issues" with the valve rockers wearing out around 10,000 miles ... KTM mentality is, well, you know that, so check them, if bad then replace them, stuff wears out, what's the problem? 

A serious KTM dirt bike guy is looking at his piston every 100 hours of use.  So if his 690 dual sport needs some rocker arms by 10,000 mile, that sounds reasonable. 

So putting 75,000 miles on original everything is not a goal of KTM.

But ... there are many 990 engines where guys put 35,000-50,000 miles on them without big issues (maybe a water pump seal, maybe a clutch slave).

Also, I think they have gotten very complex and it seems many KTM dealers are a bit clueless on best approaches to troubleshooting.  So that makes for some bad situations and stories. 

But I don't think they are any worse than Ducati or BMW in terms of finickiness/issues.  Like a BMW 1250 GS vs Ducati 1260 Multistrada vs KTM 1290 SAS ... all have situations of issues/problems that don't seem like they should happen ... all have stories of guys with them back at the dealers for some odd problem, waiting on parts, etc. 
   

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Wow I would never look at it that way...  Thanks for the perspective. I have never raced anything but a bicycle, so I didn't really think of that attitude toward consumable parts coming via the racing pedigree. When you think of a race bike being torn into after every race day, makes a lot more sense..  I guess that positions them sort of like a ferrari or a lotus in the "race machine for use off the race track" spectrum of ownership.

I certainly cant imagine owning a bike that needed the heads & jugs off every 100hrs to check or replace a piston, but different strokes I guess

[flip]

Not much to look at but she's got skills!

[LowRyter]

The sound of the RC8 is like a 4 stroke chainsaw on steroids if there was such a thing. They totally RIP.

it's a 70 degree V twin just like all the other KTM V twins.  That baby has some punch and is very comfortable for a race replica.  I think it has adjustable pegs and clip-ons.  Yeah, she ripppppss and I didn't even have a chance to get on the cam. 

Just a one year wonder.

[malik]

I've a Guzzi mate who has only just bought a 790 to replace the Tenere for dirt riding. He is very impressed. Light weight (190kg ?), a 22 liter tank (450km range), a decent pillion seat, and he can get both feet on the ground (he's not a tall bloke) and it has power to burn. Works for him, at least so far. As for the insect-like appearance, he says they all look like that. Keep in mind that KTM is short for Keep Throwing Money.

He still has the GRiSO & the Lario for the road, so all is not lost.

[Solorider73]

KTM's roots of dirt bike racing seems to assume their owners care about light weight and performance and are willing to do needed maintenance & replacement of parts.

So if clutch plates are worn out at 15,000 miles a Honda guy might thing what the heck is this, but KTM guys would think that sounds reasonable. 

KTM 690's still have "issues" with the valve rockers wearing out around 10,000 miles ... KTM mentality is, well, you know that, so check them, if bad then replace them, stuff wears out, what's the problem? 

A serious KTM dirt bike guy is looking at his piston every 100 hours of use.  So if his 690 dual sport needs some rocker arms by 10,000 mile, that sounds reasonable. 

So putting 75,000 miles on original everything is not a goal of KTM.

But ... there are many 990 engines where guys put 35,000-50,000 miles on them without big issues (maybe a water pump seal, maybe a clutch slave).

Also, I think they have gotten very complex and it seems many KTM dealers are a bit clueless on best approaches to troubleshooting.  So that makes for some bad situations and stories. 

But I don't think they are any worse than Ducati or BMW in terms of finickiness/issues.  Like a BMW 1250 GS vs Ducati 1260 Multistrada vs KTM 1290 SAS ... all have situations of issues/problems that don't seem like they should happen ... all have stories of guys with them back at the dealers for some odd problem, waiting on parts, etc. 
 

They are race bikes that are sold to consumers.  I've never ridden a KTM, but some of the guys I ride with have them.  For our dual sport rides, there is almost always some minor issue with one of them.  My DR650 always starts and never has issues.  It won't rip down the trail as fast but always gets there.  I would hope the more road oriented bikes would be more reliable since they aren't really off-road race bikes.

[blu guzz]

the biggest thing with ktm is that when Ian MacGreggor and Charlie Boorman were scouting bikes to do their Long Way Round, they really wanted the KTM's, but some moron denied them, so BMW got an immeasurable boost to their image and KTM did not.  I hope that guy is working at McDonalds now.

[LowRyter]

Keep Throwing Money

Good one!   

[Bisbonian]

They are race bikes that are sold to consumers.  I've never ridden a KTM, but some of the guys I ride with have them.  For our dual sport rides, there is almost always some minor issue with one of them.  My DR650 always starts and never has issues.  It won't rip down the trail as fast but always gets there.  I would hope the more road oriented bikes would be more reliable since they aren't really off-road race bikes.

Every time my KTM left the city limits it broke down. Sometimes it broke down as soon as I pulled out of my driveway.
My eyes opened the first day of an out of town trip when I babied it back to the house after another breakdown. My wife already had dinner ready because she said she knew I'd be home because that bike never made it anywhere. I started to argue but then realized she was right.

[wirespokes]

For members of my tribe, who have only just learned how to fashion primitive stone tools, and are still struggling with this 'master the use of fire' thing, that would only be 2 for 4.  Assuming we could count higher than 3. 

Like your sense of humor. 

Every time my KTM left the city limits it broke down. Sometimes it broke down as soon as I pulled out of my driveway.
My eyes opened the first day of an out of town trip when I babied it back to the house after another breakdown. My wife already had dinner ready because she said she knew I'd be home because that bike never made it anywhere. I started to argue but then realized she was right.

Good one!

Ya know - if you read about bikes like the Guzzis and BMWs that raced - they weren't necessarily the fastest but were dependable.

A friend had a 990 (something like that) and he loved the power, but it was a tall bike and a handful. More of a bike to blast through the desert at 120 than the kind of off road stuff we have here. I think he sold it after getting a few tickets. I seem to remember it also got rotten gas mileage.

After selling the KTM he got into Huskys and wound up having at least one of each size and loved them all.

[Dave Swanson]

For awhile this spring I was completely enamored with the new KTM 890 Duke R.  I still would love to have one, but the constant urge to buy one has ebbed a bit. 

[Sasquatch Jim]

The easy way to understand KTM,   Kost Too Much!

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

My only experience with a KTM was the '97? 620 RXC/E my buddy Leo bought. Solid enough machine, was reliable for the short time he owned it. Vibrated enthusiastically and was quite thirsty even after we geared it up.

[Huzo]

For a lot of us, the bike we choose is an extension of our personality or our perception of how we present.
Maybe this will go some way towards an answer..?

[Bulldog9]

I don't get it, but there are 5-6 in the MC parking area, along with 20+ GS, and 50+ Harley's every day. A few Duc's and Triumphs and my lonely Guzzi.

[twowheeladdict]

As many one and two year old KTMs I have seen for sale I believe they are a bike someone buys to experience and then moves on.

I have taken nice long test rides on a few models and equate them to riding a thoroughbred race horse.  A real thrill, but not something I would want to do every day for a long period.

One of my Coworkers replaced his DR650 with a KTM enduro because he decided the DR was not up to the task of riding in the Colorado mountains a second time.  The DR never broke down, but the KTM lost the fuel pump miles from the nearest town. 

[Muzz]

Keep Throwing Money

Good one!   

Or, "keeps taking money".  I guess it depends on which school you went to.