V100 Mandello Merged Threadfest

[blackcat]

Nope.

"The Berliner Motor Corporation's obsession with entering the large and profitable US police motorcycle market against Harley-Davidson is characterized as folly for the unrealistic specification that Berliner demanded of the Ducati Apollo, yet authors like Falloon laud the Apollo for vision of this very specification. The Apollo engine, in V-twin form, would in fact become the heart of Ducatis for the following four decades. Similarly, the Berliners pushed Moto Guzzi to create a big v-twin for the American police market, and had greater success with the production of the Moto Guzzi V7. Like Ducati, this engine type would carry Moto Guzzi from those days up to the present day, and Moto Guzzi in the end found many police department customers for their version of the Berliner dream bike."

"Moto Guzzi, like Ducati, was under pressure from the Berliner brothers to produce a Harley-Davidson-style big-bore V-engined bike.
It was reported that Moto Guzzi sold 5,000 Eldorados per year from 1972–1974, making it a fierce competitor to the Harley FLH."

And this:

"A cruiser motorcycle is a motorcycle in the style of American machines from the 1930s to the early 1960s, including those made by Harley-Davidson, Indian, Excelsior and Henderson. The riding position usually places the feet forward and the hands up, with the spine erect or leaning back slightly. Typical cruiser engines emphasize easy rideability and shifting, with plenty of low-end torque but not necessarily large amounts of horsepower, and are traditionally V-twins, but inline engines have become more common. Cruisers with greater performance than usual, including more horsepower, stronger brakes and better suspension, are often called power cruisers.

Japanese companies began producing models evocative of the early cruisers in the mid-1980s, and by 1997 the market had grown to nearly 60 percent of the US market, such that a number of motorcycle manufacturers including BMW, Honda, Moto Guzzi, Yamaha, Suzuki, Triumph and Victory have currently or have had important models evocative of the American cruiser."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruiser_(motorcycle)

And one of the photo examples:

[Vagrant]

Strangely, in the early 70's Harley was making junk and losing dealers and customers. At the same time Guzzi had some good products and a fair number of dealers. If they had just kicked up the quality a bit and stood behind their dealers better Harley might have disappeared and Guzzi might be much larger. Unfortunately Guzzi still hasn't learned that lesson and still struggles to find and keep dealers and customers.

[Tusayan]

I am a fan of BMW styling until the 2005 model year.  A prefer Botticeli to Picaso.  I liked the looks of my Muth designed 1984 R100RS probably the most of any bike I have had with the 97 R1100RS and my 2004 R1150RT and the most voluptuous of all, the mighty K1200RS also nice looking.

The R100RS was introduced in 1977, when BMW styling was tasteful and (probably not coincidentally) BMW advertised their bikes and being intentionally light and simple.  They were classy bikes.  Germanic yes, and that doesn't often equate to style, but classy and not unattractive.

The last BMW I think was well styled was the original K100RS, circa 1984.  It was not beautiful but in original form with unpainted engine and automotive paint colors it was distinctive and classy too.  The original R100GS of 1988 was also a bike that you could look at without pain, it was clearly built to do a job and it wasn't really styled, it was just built with quality parts and details.   After that, BMWs became monuments to bulbous, tasteless excess.  Slowly at first, then more and more.  At what particular year you draw the line and say 'enough' is up to the individual but today they are nothing but ugly.  It was painful to see Aprilia and then Piaggio make direct copies for a while, losing any sense of Guzzi's dignity, direction and style in doing so.  Piaggio has turned that around in the last few years and discovered Guzzi's own value, although to my eyes the V100 fairing looks like something off a Kawasaki Versys.  The rest of it is not bad, but not great and not as good as the V85TT.

BMW has also become a horrendous, greedy monster in terms of its business practices during that same period, hiring swarms of MBA types to victimize dealers and so on.  Piaggio seems to have copied that too, and one hopes that they will similarly reject it as time goes on.  The whole thing is tasteless.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

"The Berliner Motor Corporation's obsession with entering the large and profitable US police motorcycle market against Harley-Davidson is characterized as folly for the unrealistic specification that Berliner demanded of the Ducati Apollo, yet authors like Falloon laud the Apollo for vision of this very specification. The Apollo engine, in V-twin form, would in fact become the heart of Ducatis for the following four decades. Similarly, the Berliners pushed Moto Guzzi to create a big v-twin for the American police market, and had greater success with the production of the Moto Guzzi V7. Like Ducati, this engine type would carry Moto Guzzi from those days up to the present day, and Moto Guzzi in the end found many police department customers for their version of the Berliner dream bike."

"Moto Guzzi, like Ducati, was under pressure from the Berliner brothers to produce a Harley-Davidson-style big-bore V-engined bike.
It was reported that Moto Guzzi sold 5,000 Eldorados per year from 1972–1974, making it a fierce competitor to the Harley FLH."

And this:

"A cruiser motorcycle is a motorcycle in the style of American machines from the 1930s to the early 1960s, including those made by Harley-Davidson, Indian, Excelsior and Henderson. The riding position usually places the feet forward and the hands up, with the spine erect or leaning back slightly. Typical cruiser engines emphasize easy rideability and shifting, with plenty of low-end torque but not necessarily large amounts of horsepower, and are traditionally V-twins, but inline engines have become more common. Cruisers with greater performance than usual, including more horsepower, stronger brakes and better suspension, are often called power cruisers.

Japanese companies began producing models evocative of the early cruisers in the mid-1980s, and by 1997 the market had grown to nearly 60 percent of the US market, such that a number of motorcycle manufacturers including BMW, Honda, Moto Guzzi, Yamaha, Suzuki, Triumph and Victory have currently or have had important models evocative of the American cruiser."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruiser_(motorcycle)

And one of the photo examples:

1966 V700 prototype:




1966 Harley:




I'm not seeing the resemblance. Still nope.

[Frenchfrog]

Obviously different but trying to hit the same market segment in the 60's and early seventies.Most of the other possibilities were British  which were smaller and much lighter as a rule (apart from the then defunct Vincent's and Ariel square fours) and certainly not cruiser style ;or BMW which were I'd call Gentleman  roadsters  .It was pressure from the US that made Guzzi increase the capacity to 850 cc too according to several authors.What I'm not sure is if Guzzi had the US market in their sights from the drawing board stage though.Somehow I don't think so as the previous ranges didn't sell much stateside did they?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Obviously different but trying to hit the same market segment in the 60's and early seventies.Most of the other possibilities were British  which were smaller and much lighter as a rule (apart from the then defunct Vincent's and Ariel square fours) and certainly not cruiser style ;or BMW which were I'd call Gentleman  roadsters  .It was pressure from the US that made Guzzi increase the capacity to 850 cc too according to several authors.What I'm not sure is if Guzzi had the US market in their sights from the drawing board stage though.Somehow I don't think so as the previous ranges didn't sell much stateside did they?

Guzzi's reason for building the V700 was to win an Italian government contract for a new police/military motorcycle. The US market was the furthest thing from their mind at that point - they just wanted to win the contract - it meant Guzzi's very survival.

The Berliners were still faffing about with the Ducati Apollo about the same time. "About the same time as the Apollo production deal fell through, Joe Berliner first set eyes on an interesting new project from his other Italian affiliate. On a visit to the Moto Guzzi factory, Berliner was shown a prototype of the new V700 and realized the possibilities". (Greg Field - Moto Guzzi Big Twins).

[Frenchfrog]

That was my deduction as to it's early  design...but no doubt due to the Berliner's, the factory realized that there was a huge market which they could get a small slice of after just a few changes to their product.Gregg's book as you point out tells the story really well.
Going forward a few years ,it's obvious that Guzzi had seen a clear market for their California models in the US and even more in Europe where the pricing would be much more favorable for them.Hence all the developments in the California range.The Japanese manufacturer's also realized that they could enter that market ,hence all the big metric cruisers ( which much more closely mirrored the Harley design ) that started to appear a bit later.

[leafman60]

I am eager to see the V100 in person.  Current early reviews of the machine now that it's out in the public are very positive. I have two prime concerns. 

The reports I've received from people who have seen and sat on the V100 are that it is a junior-sized machine.  Dimensionally, they say the bike felt smaller than the V85TT but bigger than the V7 series.  That's not good news to me.  I am interested in a machine in the ballpark of my BMW 1250GS or the H-D PA and countless other current adventure-style bikes. 

The other thing is the issue Moto Guzzi quality control and that's something that will take time to bear out. Electrical connectors, component assembly etc etc, are all things that have traditionally caused problems for Guzzi products. The old saying, "yeah, you have to sort them out to get them correct" has no place in the modern motorcycle market. 

An owner should not have to be a mechanic to own a Guzzi and deal with it.  Just look at the topics of how to fix them that pervade this very forum. For example, lingering in my mind is that I really should tear off the entire rear swing arm assembly of my new GRiSO and grease the bearings which probably were not greased at the factory.  I remember a host of these sort of things I had to do to my Stelvio while I had it.  Many of such problems should have been taken care of at the factory before the bikes were ever sold. Competition will continue to eat Guzzi's lunch if this persists.

.

[kingoffleece]

I've been on those bikes you mention.  All feel much larger that my V85TT, which is one of the reasons I got it.  Personal preference and all that.

[coast range rider]

I am eager to see the V100 in person.  Current early reviews of the machine now that it's out in the public are very positive. I have two prime concerns. 

The reports I've received from people who have seen and sat on the V100 are that it is a junior-sized machine.  Dimensionally, they say the bike felt smaller than the V85TT but bigger than the V7 series.  That's not good news to me.  I am interested in a machine in the ballpark of my BMW 1250GS or the H-D PA and countless other current adventure-style bikes. 

The other thing is the issue Moto Guzzi quality control and that's something that will take time to bear out. Electrical connectors, component assembly etc etc, are all things that have traditionally caused problems for Guzzi products. The old saying, "yeah, you have to sort them out to get them correct" has no place in the modern motorcycle market. 

An owner should not have to be a mechanic to own a Guzzi and deal with it.  Just look at the topics of how to fix them that pervade this very forum. For example, lingering in my mind is that I really should tear off the entire rear swing arm assembly of my new GRiSO and grease the bearings which probably were not greased at the factory.  I remember a host of these sort of things I had to do to my Stelvio while I had it.  Many of such problems should have been taken care of at the factory before the bikes were ever sold. Competition will continue to eat Guzzi's lunch if this persists.

As to your first concern,
Wait one extra year for the V100 Stelvio that MG announced at EIMCA last month. It will be the adventure styled bike, larger than the Mandello.
As to your second concern,
Wait one extra year for the V100 quality control to be reported on right here at this website.

Several here, myself included are waiting for the above. 

[blackcat]

Mistral at work:

https://youtube.com/shorts/hDzMlDjRQ1M?feature=share

[Murray]

 

The other thing is the issue Moto Guzzi quality control and that's something that will take time to bear out. Electrical connectors, component assembly etc etc, are all things that have traditionally caused problems for Guzzi products. The old saying, "yeah, you have to sort them out to get them correct" has no place in the modern motorcycle market. 


.

I think you'll find this is a lot closer to an Aprilia in quality, complete redesign no legacy hangovers from previous production techniques.

[Vagrant]

So, from people who actually own one, how is Aprilia quality?

[Huzo]

The old saying, "yeah, you have to sort them out to get them correct" has no place in the modern motorcycle market. 
An owner should not have to be a mechanic to own a Guzzi and deal with it. 

Well mate, that’s always going to be true if you look at it with commonsense, but we know that commonsense has no place in motorcycles.
Most of the people that I count as friends in the biking world, were key because I was dealing with some form of adversity at the time…
I know there’ll be a temptation to take that reasoning and expand it so as to make it sound ridiculous, but I hope that doesn’t happen.
Some names on that list are..
Pete Roper
Gonzo
Frenchfrog
Paul Brooking
and a cast of dozens…..
I like my bikes to need some attention, owning a GS is how you become aloof and isolated.

[Frenchfrog]

Thanks Huzo ! Glad to have been of some minor help .
 Your Norge is a fine testimony that Guzzi build and quality is fine....200,000 plus on any bikes odo without any major intervention is irrefutable proof  .
Are they all that reliable? Obviously some exceptions but look at any other brand and the answer will be similar...shit happens or not, sometimes caused by Luigi or Hans, sometimes by a forgetful service tech,sometimes by the little pimple head in the accounting department.

[Huzo]

Thanks Huzo ! Glad to have been of some minor help .
 Your Norge is a fine testimony that Guzzi build and quality is fine....200,000 plus on any bikes odo without any major intervention is irrefutable proof  .
Are they all that reliable? Obviously some exceptions but look at any other brand and the answer will be similar...shit happens or not, sometimes caused by Luigi or Hans, sometimes by a forgetful service tech,sometimes by the little pimple head in the accounting department.

Some of mine, were  precipitated by me in a peripheral sort of way.

#1
Main power wire dislodging from the back of ignition switch, when I was less than gentle removing the front fairing mount.
#2
ECU disconnect indication leading to me using a metallic object to remove a relay, causing a blown fuse protecting the  supply to the ECU.
#3
Breakdown of insulation on part of the wiring loom, inappropriately re located by me to create some under seat space.

The things that were not caused by me were..
#1
Failure of electric windscreen motor..(replaced under warranty)
#2
Aforementioned fairing mount broken due to absence of gusseting of tubular mount.
#3
Bevel box pinion nut coming loose
#4
Broken centrestand.

That’s about it really, not bad for 15 years.

[ohiorider]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Just went to the mailbox .....  and Surprise!  I haven't subscribed to Road Runner for forever ...... but there it was.  Perhaps it's simply a promotion.  Regardless, nice front cover photo.  Looking forward to reading about the latest Guzzi soon as I pour a cuppa java.

First rides can't be too far away!

Bob

[acguzzi]

I have an aprilia rsv mille from 2000, only issue I've had was a fuel pump, the reputation is that they are reliable machines and very robust engines.

[Bulldog9]

My 'reliability' concerns are more related to a first year model than that it comes from Guzzi.

My most reliable motorcycle has been my 1979 XS1100, but that had it's issues, mainly electrical with advance wires shorting, ignition switch melting, and fuse block issues. Mechanically it was about perfect.

Least reliable was my FJR 1300. It had the most problems of any bike I've owned, but most were minor.

So far, the CARC bikes are my favorite, hoping the V100 platform speaks to me.

My 07 Griso 16K miles, and 16 Stornello 8K miles have been perfect mechanically. Just routine maintenance.

The 1200 Sport was owned from new by Ohio Rider and now me has been mostly rock solid as well, with the dash being the most significant issue. I put a new dash in 2 years ago and good to go so far. I also bought the Convert 2 years ago, and did a refresh, no issues so far, but is kind of moot.

My 2014 Norge had several issues, to include cam timing being off one tooth, bad fuel gauge sender, weeping grub screws, and my 2017 MGX 21 had several issues related to dealer setup.  I had the Norge 3 years and 10K miles, the MGX 9 months and 3K miles.

Seems that many of the electronic systems are off the shelf from Aprilia, so likely well proven, the engine and drive train will likely have teething pains as every new model will.

As said before, I'm waiting till 2025 regardless, and will decide between Stelvio or Mandello or whatever other models that may come our way. It is going to be hard to justify replacing something in the paddock, but I am very interested and look forward to seeing bikes at US dealers. I'm 3 hours from two dealers and am hoping for demo rides this summer.

[skippy]

Mistral at work:

https://youtube.com/shorts/hDzMlDjRQ1M?feature=share

Well, I guess I will set aside a little bit more money now......

Skippy
 

[LowRyter]

My most reliable bike has been '17 Ducati SS 939

[twowheeladdict]

https://youtube.com/shorts/hDzMlDjRQ1M?feature=share

Dyno run.

[PJPR01]

Oh yes!!  Just arrived in the mail!




64 sided die

[lazlokovacs]

got to sling my leg over a red one today at the dealers in France.

impressions

- great riding position, seat height and reach to bars is perfect.
-bike is a great size and weight
- fit and finish is really good.
-the gold wheels are gorgeous

I didnt like the flat angle of the handlebars (about the same as a griso) and would probably swap the bars out.

I'm tempted but I think I'm going to wait a year and see what else they do with the platform. (I'm dreaming of one with 2 nice round analogue gauges instead of that darned TFT monstrosity.
.
nice work moto guzzi!

[Vagrant]

So is it somewhat laid over seating like a 1200 sport, Griso or more upright like a v7

[coast range rider]

So is it somewhat laid over seating like a 1200 sport, Griso or more upright like a v7

Less forward lean than 1200 sport and Griso.

[lazlokovacs]

yes, less than griso...

the distance from the seat to the handlebars on the griso is quite long compared to other bikes actually

[Vagrant]

Crap,! I had written it off as too sporty. Now not so sure.

[Phil/TX]

Another month, still no V100 in the states, I’m beginning my initial thought’s may be right…………..March or April. It’s hard to hold on to the money for so long . Anyone have a delivery date?

[skippy]

Another month, still no V100 in the states, I’m beginning my initial thought’s may be right…………..March or April. It’s hard to hold on to the money for so long . Anyone have a delivery date?

Not officially. When I ordered mine the Guzzi website said late January but the local dealer told me not to expect it until March. Doesn't much matter since I would by hard pressed to find a decent day for a ride until April around these parts of the world.

I will say that I haven't gotten any updates from the factory. When I ordered the bike I was led to believe to expect periodic updates when the bike gets closer to arrival.

Skippy