V100 Mandello Merged Threadfest

[bigbikerrick]

Thanks ,John. Very interesting read! As usual, Kevin Cameron hit a home run!
Rick.

[Bpreynolds2]

I test rode a Griso once at Cadre.  It had been chipped with an aftermarket exhaust.  To say it was not a good citizen was an understatement.  Every time I took off, the sucker tried to rip my arms off.  It was loud, stinky (no cat) and uncomfortable for me and would not really take touring luggage and there was no real logical reason for it to exist except for one.  I could not stop smiling at every stop light.  That monster bike would scare old ladies and kids.  It probably would ultimately be outrun by a high horsepower inline 4 or modern multistratda but not in 1st gear.  So from 0-60 it was the modern equivilent of a Hemi Cuda.

I've owned 2 different G8V models, although not that different much at all in terms of specs (2009 and 2014).  Even with mods like peg lowers, bar risers, etc. it's still not as applicable to any task as most Guzzis tend to be.  I found the ergos especially odd, maybe if you're an Italian fellow with a short inseam and long arms it would make better sense.  It's heavy too, takes a lot of effort to get it over and it doesn't suffer fools lightly - my surgically repaired shoulder will tell you this  Once lined up and leaned over in a curve it's steady as a rock but play the dumbass like me and you'll find yourself paying for it; it's not a flickable super naked and most of the modern naked bikes I've owned would eat it for breakfast in terms of outright power.  I think your 'Cuda analogy might be a good one.  It's probably not even in my top 3 or 4 MGs I've owned.  So why did I own two of them?  Because damnit, they are stunningly gorgeous and might just be THE most characterful and charismatic of any of the Guzzis I've had.      It worked best for me when I jut left all that other crap off it like lowers, windshield, risers, etc. and just let it be the machine it is.

   

[Huzo]

Kevin touched on the mitigation of torque reaction due the alternator drive shaft and downstream masses from said shaft, spinning in the opposite direction to the crank.
He stated it and he is to be disbelieved at one’s own peril…generally. I can take what he says as fact if I remember who he is and just agree, but I cannot UNDERSTAND why this is.
Yes, when all the masses are spinning and the input of energy is shut off (closed throttle), the decelerating masses will impart a rocking motion in the direction of the spinning mass…(our traditional Guzzi’s tilt counterclockwise from rider perspective) on overrun, that is predictable and clear.
Work is being done by the decelerating masses, a giant flywheel if you will.
So with the new Mandello ON OVERRUN, the combined masses spinning clockwise will tilt the bike clockwise and the (much lighter) alternator drive shaft and downstream components from it will tilt counterclockwise, so there will be some cancellation present.
However the alternator and driveshaft are a mere fraction of the weight of the main crankshaft and clutch componentry, so I suggest that the miracle of “reducing torque reaction by as much as 50%” is not due to this circumstance.
KC states that the Mandello has a lighter crankshaft, which is to be expected and I suggest it is this fact that has led to the reduction of torque effect, as the crank (with consequent less inertia), can be spun up to higher rpm with less of the familiar “tilt” acting in the opposite direction, that we all know so well.

Let me step back to utter basics if I may..

If you take the example of an electric drill and are using it to spin a shaft in a housing, let’s say full of components in oil, which has some resistance to to wanting to turn, you will feel a torque or “twisting” force in your wrist equal and opposite to the resistance of the shaft. If that shaft seizes, like when a drill bit jams, ALL of the torque from the electric motor will react in your hand and spin the tool in the reverse direction.
The armature will not spin inside the drill, the drill will spin around the armature. We all see what happens when a helicopter loses the big steadying hand (tail rotor) on the end of the lever (tail boom).
It will not matter how many reversing gears are contained within the housing, it is the resistance of the masses to rotation that is felt back through the electric drill, that’s where your sprained wrist come from…

Now..Walk over to your shiny new Mandello…

When you start it and it sits there at idle, the components are not experiencing any ACCELERATIONS so there is no induced TORQUE REACTION…Great..!
But when you add energy into the system (fuel), you are accelerating the masses up to a higher energy state and the resistance to that acceleration will make the crankcase want to rotate around the crankshaft, (remember the drill  analogy ?) in a direction and magnitude equal and opposite…(Newton).
I still contend that whatever direction or reversal of such, takes place downstream of the big ends of the con rods, it will not assist in mitigation of torque reaction under power.
I think that in a very small way, our hero has succumbed to the old, “everyone says it, so I’ll just skip lightly over it” thing.

Now, if I can just find my asbestos suit….

[rocker59]

I still contend that whatever direction or reversal of such, takes place downstream of the big ends of the con rods, it will not assist in mitigation of torque reaction.
 

It will be interesting to hear from owners of these new machines.

Counter-rotating assemblies should counter torque reaction.  How much?  Well that is the question.

[Huzo]

It will be interesting to hear from owners of these new machines.

Counter-rotating assemblies should counter torque reaction.  How much?  Well that is the question.

It seems clear that there is less torque reaction, but not for the reasons that popular opinions suggest.
Less massive crankshaft = less torque reaction.
Owners will report less reaction, but will they be correct in knowing why…? Maybe…

[lazlokovacs]

I'm with you on this one Huzo

[Huzo]

I'm with you on this one Huzo

Thanks mate…
That helps.

[LowRyter]

It will be interesting to hear from owners of these new machines.

Counter-rotating assemblies should counter torque reaction.  How much?  Well that is the question.

so far as goosing the throttle while sitting still, the bike dips to the left, not the right such as all the other Guzzis.

[Moparnut72]

I think Honda Motors would disagree with you. They stated the counter rotating clutch and gearbox cancelled out the torque reaction when they brought out a certain model Goldwing, I don't remember which one. They made a big deal about it. That bike is so damn heavy maybe the torque reaction didn't affect it that much anyway. Personally I don't know why people make such a big deal about this, on our current bikes it is a mere fraction of what my /2 and /5 BMWs exhibited. Lighter rotating assemblies have reduced this effect substantially. Shaft jacking is also basically non-existent compared to the short framed R75/5 I once owned.
kk

[Huzo]

so far as goosing the throttle while sitting still, the bike dips to the left, not the right such as all the other Guzzis.

Could you enlighten us as to why that might be the case ?

[Huzo]

I think Honda Motors would disagree with you. They stated the counter rotating clutch and gearbox cancelled out the torque reaction when they brought out a certain model Goldwing, I don't remember which one. They made a big deal about it. That bike is so damn heavy maybe the torque reaction didn't affect it that much anyway. Personally I don't know why people make such a big deal about this, on our current bikes it is a mere fraction of what my /2 and /5 BMWs exhibited. Lighter rotating assemblies have reduced this effect substantially. Shaft jacking is also basically non-existent compared to the short framed R75/5 I once owned.
kk

Clearly Honda will end up being correct and I won’t, as long as the claim they are making is clearly stated and not put through the filter of popular opinion and conventional wisdom then regurgitated as fact.
On overrun when energy is being taken out of the rotating masses, it will be imparted into the frame and yes, the clutch and gearbox internals will impart a torque in the opposite sense to the crank, so there will be some cancellation.
But that is not all of the story…

[Huzo]

have you ridden a Mandello?  The bike tips to the left when goosed, the opposite way from a "real' Guzzi.

Nobody has said it won’t LR…
It’s because the engine spins the opposite bloody way…!

[SLDMRossi]

Ten days to go! See you there...

SR

[LowRyter]

Show of hands. Anyone else experiencing a bit of ambiguity from Moto Guzzi on their pre-order? Back in early November when I put my order in I received two emails in quick succession from Moto Guzzi USA/Canada confirming my pre-order. I made the order at the dealership and ordered some accessories at that time as well as I wanted everything on the bike when I picked it up. The dealer told me at that time to expect the bike in March and that I would receive an email from Moto Guzzi a few weeks before it arrives letting me know when to expect it. The dealer also said they will notify me when they get confirmation that it is in route to them and they would then call me.
Well, I have yet to get notice from Moto Guzzi that my bike is on the way But I have been notified by the dealer that they are expecting it in the next week or so.
I am super excited as I thought my order may had been placed to late to make the first batch of arrivals for North America. I incredulously asked the dealer if they were certain my bike was in route as I haven't received the delivery confirmation from Moto Guzzi yet. They thought that was odd but assured me that my bike was state side and on the way.
Just wanted to see if anyone else here has had a similar experience.

Skippy

I think the Green models are still in short supply.  The White one is perhaps the easiest to get?

[Huzo]

I’ll be interested to see what the reasons are, when the first used ones are offered up for sale.
I know one of the first gripes will be the screen.

[blu guzz]

I rode the demo today, a white one.  If Guzzi were dogs, our air cooled bikes would be black labs.  Easy to approach, friendly and comfortable.  The V100 is a Greyhound.  It requires your full attention or you could find yourself in the weeds.  A great bike for sure, but I have grown to enjoy friendly and comfortable.  If I was 44 and not 64, I would be all over it.  Very modern feel to all inputs.  Obeys your commands instantly.  Many will love it.

[Duc-Duc-Goose]

I rode the demo today, a white one.  If Guzzi were dogs, our air cooled bikes would be black labs.  Easy to approach, friendly and comfortable.  The V100 is a Greyhound.  It requires your full attention or you could find yourself in the weeds.  A great bike for sure, but I have grown to enjoy friendly and comfortable.  If I was 44 and not 64, I would be all over it.  Very modern feel to all inputs.  Obeys your commands instantly.  Many will love it.

I was also at Cadre today, picking up my Norge after new tires and pre-season service. I rode the white V100 as well. I took it on some of the twisties in Indian Hill, hoping I didn’t run into a Ranger. Handles well … feels … refined. The TFT menu system was very easy to navigate - intuitive (IMO). Even with the sun behind me, I could read it (I worried about this). I was able to get to the controls, and move the screen (rode mostly at full height), change modes (I preferred sport and touring from what I could tell). And, I witnessed the wings deploying, hehe. If I put my hand down next to a wing, I could get a sense of the diverted air flow - noticeable. For my 30” inseam, the seat height is acceptable, but, the lower seat would be better for me. Brakes - amazing. As for seating position - seat to handlebars to footpegs - is perfect, for me. Exhaust note is wonderful. What really impressed me was the slow speed stability… just creeping, ie, waiting for a light to go green, I could almost stop without putting feet down or jostling the bars left and right. Feels far more sophisticated than my Norge. So, the Norge and my Ducati ST3S are being traded for order #542 … a V100S Verde. I feel Guzzi has a winner here, as long as surprises don’t emerge. But, a two year warranty helps allay that fear. Cheers!

PS - those drips on the ground are not from the bike!😁

[Bulldog9]

Kevin touched on the mitigation of torque reaction due the alternator drive shaft and downstream masses from said shaft, spinning in the opposite direction to the crank.
He stated it and he is to be disbelieved at one’s own peril…generally. I can take what he says as fact if I remember who he is and just agree, but I cannot UNDERSTAND why this is.
Yes, when all the masses are spinning and the input of energy is shut off (closed throttle), the decelerating masses will impart a rocking motion in the direction of the spinning mass…(our traditional Guzzi’s tilt counterclockwise from rider perspective) on overrun, that is predictable and clear.
Work is being done by the decelerating masses, a giant flywheel if you will.
So with the new Mandello ON OVERRUN, the combined masses spinning clockwise will tilt the bike clockwise and the (much lighter) alternator drive shaft and downstream components from it will tilt counterclockwise, so there will be some cancellation present.
However the alternator and driveshaft are a mere fraction of the weight of the main crankshaft and clutch componentry, so I suggest that the miracle of “reducing torque reaction by as much as 50%” is not due to this circumstance.
KC states that the Mandello has a lighter crankshaft, which is to be expected and I suggest it is this fact that has led to the reduction of torque effect, as the crank (with consequent less inertia), can be spun up to higher rpm with less of the familiar “tilt” acting in the opposite direction, that we all know so well.

Let me step back to utter basics if I may..

If you take the example of an electric drill and are using it to spin a shaft in a housing, let’s say full of components in oil, which has some resistance to to wanting to turn, you will feel a torque or “twisting” force in your wrist equal and opposite to the resistance of the shaft. If that shaft seizes, like when a drill bit jams, ALL of the torque from the electric motor will react in your hand and spin the tool in the reverse direction.
The armature will not spin inside the drill, the drill will spin around the armature. We all see what happens when a helicopter loses the big steadying hand (tail rotor) on the end of the lever (tail boom).
It will not matter how many reversing gears are contained within the housing, it is the resistance of the masses to rotation that is felt back through the electric drill, that’s where your sprained wrist come from…

Now..Walk over to your shiny new Mandello…

When you start it and it sits there at idle, the components are not experiencing any ACCELERATIONS so there is no induced TORQUE REACTION…Great..!
But when you add energy into the system (fuel), you are accelerating the masses up to a higher energy state and the resistance to that acceleration will make the crankcase want to rotate around the crankshaft, (remember the drill  analogy ?) in a direction and magnitude equal and opposite…(Newton).
I still contend that whatever direction or reversal of such, takes place downstream of the big ends of the con rods, it will not assist in mitigation of torque reaction under power.
I think that in a very small way, our hero has succumbed to the old, “everyone says it, so I’ll just skip lightly over it” thing.

Now, if I can just find my asbestos suit….

Well, with that blather you obviously have plenty of timê on your hands to find that asbestos suit 

[rocker59]

I’ll be interested to see what the reasons are, when the first used ones are offered up for sale.
I know one of the first gripes will be the screen.

Huzo,

This one's for you:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1795630270709120

[th_01]

I rode a demo V100 at AJ's Cycle in MA.   This is not your Grandpa's Moto Guzzi. 
Before you pontificate on the effects of torque, wind, noise , comfort, shifting ride one. 

The V100 a completely refined machine.  Plenty of legroom, comfortable seat, easy to ride, quick and flickable handling,
A nice rumble without being offensive, Readable dash screen , adjustable suspension , The windscreen works very well (6ft rider)
The V100 handles traffic and slow roads very well.  Accelerates quickly no stuttering at all.  The ride is very balance in weight  and handling. 
The seating position is fairly upright.   
It is twisted steel and sex appeal.

Kudos to the engineers that created this machine

I bought one.

[Duc-Duc-Goose]

Well, there seems to be a consensus so far - the V100 is a step forward for Guzzi and by far the majority of reviews I’ve seen are very positive. The “cons” are few … low gears in auto shift being one that comes up. I“ll be anxious to see for myself when mine comes in. The guy in this pic said he hit second gear and look what happened! (j/k) This was from a Super Bike Channel review. They liked it. It seems there is a common thread of excitement in the riders’ voices… giggling, laughing, “Oh my God,” “Bueno,” and such… that’s the kind of bike I hope it is. My demo ride yesterday at Cadre (Cincinnati) leans in that direction. Back to making my accessory list.

[Bulldog9]

I've owned 2 different G8V models, although not that different much at all in terms of specs (2009 and 2014).  Even with mods like peg lowers, bar risers, etc. it's still not as applicable to any task as most Guzzis tend to be.  I found the ergos especially odd, maybe if you're an Italian fellow with a short inseam and long arms it would make better sense.  It's heavy too, takes a lot of effort to get it over and it doesn't suffer fools lightly - my surgically repaired shoulder will tell you this  Once lined up and leaned over in a curve it's steady as a rock but play the dumbass like me and you'll find yourself paying for it; it's not a flickable super naked and most of the modern naked bikes I've owned would eat it for breakfast in terms of outright power.  I think your 'Cuda analogy might be a good one.  It's probably not even in my top 3 or 4 MGs I've owned.  So why did I own two of them?  Because damnit, they are stunningly gorgeous and might just be THE most characterful and charismatic of any of the Guzzis I've had.      It worked best for me when I jut left all that other crap off it like lowers, windshield, risers, etc. and just let it be the machine it is.

   

I've owned 3 CARC series bikes, a 4v 1100 Griso, 8v Norge,. And 4V 1200 Sport. For whatever reason I prefer the older 4V motors over the higher output of the 8V, especially the 1100 in the GRISO..... The 'character' is just perfect if a bit down in power by comparison. YMMV.

This, I sold the 8v motored Norge and kept the 4v motored 1100 Griso and 1200 Sport.

Over time I've found tire pressure and suspension settings that make the bikes more 'flickable' while still stable. The GRiSO and Breva chassis are surprisingly Night and Day in feel, feedback and response. The Griso is raw and sharp edged, the 1200 Sport/Breva is velvety. Even the clutch and brakes are sharper and 'harder' and more direct. I'm looking forward to comparing the V100. From what I've been reading my interpretation and expectation is the V100 will be between the two. But heck, it's new and I have 15K on the Griso and 80K on the 1200 Sport. Obviously the V100 is up on power, but higher in the rev range.

Though very close in curb weight, the Griso feels like a feather weight compared to the 1200 Sport. Mainly I think due to the taller tank profile. I imagine the V100 will feel even lighter given it's smaller wheelbase, etc. The Griso is a long bike....

[th_01]

The V100 is a built from the ground up new motorcycle.  Trying to compare the V100 , although tempting,
 to previous Moto Guzzi's  is the wrong way to look at it.  The influence of Aprilia engineering is apparent
throughout.  They kept the soul of Moto Guzzi and brought it into the future. This is the first bike in years f
rom any manufacturer that really peaked my interest.

The overall balance of the attributes we enjoyed with previous models combined with performance ,
 finish, feel, comfort and handling make this a winner. 
. 

[blackcat]

I rode a demo V100 at AJ's Cycle in MA.   This is not your Grandpa's Moto Guzzi. 
Before you pontificate on the effects of torque, wind, noise , comfort, shifting ride one. 

The V100 a completely refined machine.  Plenty of legroom, comfortable seat, easy to ride, quick and flickable handling,
A nice rumble without being offensive, Readable dash screen , adjustable suspension , The windscreen works very well (6ft rider)
The V100 handles traffic and slow roads very well.  Accelerates quickly no stuttering at all.  The ride is very balance in weight  and handling. 
The seating position is fairly upright.   
It is twisted steel and sex appeal.

Kudos to the engineers that created this machine

I bought one.

Congrats Tom, good luck with the bike.

[lazlokovacs]

was reading on the ghetto about some isolated reports of alternators being unconnected, paint flaking and a rocker arm coming loose in the engine

fingers crossed it's just one or two bikes, but if I had one I'd be laying a multimeter across the battery and firing it up just to make sure it's charging.

[blackcat]

was reading on the ghetto about some isolated reports of alternators being unconnected, paint flaking and a rocker arm coming loose in the engine

fingers crossed it's just one or two bikes, but if I had one I'd be laying a multimeter across the battery and firing it up just to make sure it's charging.

I’ve seen the paint flaking photos but not the alternator problem, easy fix compared to the engine paint. Someone was complaining about the headlights at night but others have said that they were fine and the complainer’s lights must not be adjusted correctly and or the settings needed to be amended.

[NWrider]

I saw my first MG V100 in the wild today about 11:30 while riding my Aprilia Tuareg NE bound about 2 miles from the top of the pass between Winkelman and Globe AZ.  Green and gold S model.  Boy do those gold valve covers catch your eye when it's coming toward you.  Was it anyone on the forum?

[Jorg66]

First impression of the V 100 Mandello yesterday in Winnipeg/ MB at a Car and Motorcylce show.
Fit and Finish ,A1 ,could only sit on it ,well I'm 6'1" with 'Winterweight of 210 lbs , feels a little tight for me on the Knees.
It was a 'red one' apparently first Mandello in Canada,.... but 'the best wife ever' isn't to fond of it ,...two up might be little tight ,at least for us.
But will go for a test ride later on this year.

[rtbickel]

I dropped by my local dealer yesterday to see if they had received any.  There was a white one on the floor and a S model being picked up by its new owner and I watched the salesman demo all the bells and whistles.  The fit and finish looked impeccable.  Sat on the white one and the riding position seemed acceptable but a ride would be needed to confirm that.  A few observations from my perspective - the pillion sits pretty tall and requires a high leg lift to get over, seemingly almost as tall as my V85.  I have never understood that for a non-ADV bike as it seems that it would be less stable than with a flatter seat as there is plenty of tire clearance and the passenger pegs require a high step up too. Crash bars and the exhaust/head guard (both were on the S model) are absolutely needed - if it were to go down, I wouldn't want to think about the cost of a full head/exhaust replacement.  The front forks looked a little spindly and the muffler looked out of place - why couldn't Guzzi have come up with something that flowed better with the lines of the bike?  All in all a fine looking motorsickle and I do eventually want to do a test ride, but I hope that they have a California replacement on the drawing board as that is more my style for long range touring.

[Phil/TX]

Any one put a tank bag on their v100 ??? Best option?