LONG New to me Old Eldorado

[fotoguzzi]

I paid some good money for a 1974 Eldorado that was parked for unknown many years at Judson Moto Guzzi/BMW. They’ve been closed a long time, building now sold so let the pickin begin. There must be 40 bikes half BMW and half Guzzi.

It had hard dirt/dust all over but rolled out and the brake was not frozen up.




Eldo options, it’s an original police model, it has the siren bracket and ignition on left side frame.
1,    keep stock just fix chrome bores, Gilardoni NA but $700 for a similar kit MGCycle.
Many separate issues with this. The wiring and switches look pretty old and sketchy. And those switches were crap even when new. Could get new harness from Greg..
Leave frame and body untouched, patina and all. Don’t polish anything with possible exception of the dash alloy. The dash might be the coolest part on this bike.

2,   I’ll never do this.. full restoration down to the last bolt, return to like new condition. It would cost me way more money and time than I have to spend.

3,    instead of re-doing the top end could source a replacement engine. For example there is a 98 EV near me with 65k. I can get the whole bike for $1200. Owner states new u-joint, windshield and tires. I’m confident I could replace the motor, transmission and wiring into the Eldo..I’d use all the slightly more modern operating systems. CPU, FI, ignition etc. the EV starts but he says intermittently it seems like it’s running out of gas. Park it awhile and it runs fine again. I think crud in gas tank, or gunk in fuel filter or pump. He says it got a little better after treatment with Seafoam.     This slightly concerning right now.
          3B   option.. use the motor and tranny but keep old wiring and system, change EV engine to carbs, distributor with points.
Probably need bigger carbs than the 29mm on the Eldo now. ($)

4th.     option. There is a Convert project available 1 state away. Look real nice in pics. Asking $2000.
        4A    just use the 1000cc motor, mix the wiring and carbs using the best of the two bikes. Maybe change to the a little better switches on the Vert.
        4B    make an Eldo Vert.. this is an intriguing idea. I’ve mixed an EV motor into a convert frame and running gear before. A long but very satisfying project. Basically take everything from the Vert from the ATF cooler back. There would be some fender alternator interference but I think there a solution for that.? The ATF tank could locate in the battery area if I got a thin battery like an Odessey.
I “think” the rear drive, swing arm and disc brake would all need to be used and it should swap over no problem ?…?.really?
Also,    could   I      put the Convert front wheel and dual brakes on the Eldo fork? The Eldo fork has caliper bosses on both fork legs. I might have to act fast to get this bike.
Is this too big of a headache project?

Summary.. all options after #1 would require the modified front engine mount, the design and maybe the parts to do it are out there.
OR the timing cover from the Eldo would be used meaning I can’t use the later model alternator. (Not possible with the EldoVert option) the EV motor would need to have to be made ready for the distributor ( if just the motor transfer, 3B ) and the mounting threads for the generator may need to be drilled and tapped, if lucky they are still tapped like in the old days.

Right now the bike is pretty sad looking, it was gathering dust for I don’t know how long, there was no license plate to date it. At least there are no dents in the tank. The inside has some surface rust but I think I can deal with that. No crud was in the old gas when I dumped it. It had maybe 2 gallons and didn’t smell all that bad but was tinted orange.
All the chrome has pitting, do I really care? No.
I have not tested any electrics but did drop the sump, no flakes just dirty oil and a few chunks of non magnetic swarf. Was able to only get left head off right now. R collar is stubborn and I can’t get off even with propane heat. The L bore looks OK no visible flaking but I’m Not sure about the ring around the top?

[AJ Huff]

That bikes cleaner than my bike and I ride mine LOL

-AJ

[Dave Swanson]

Assuming the engine and frame match you would do a disservice to yourself and the bike to swap out the motor.  I would pull the motor with the plan to do at least the cylinders.  Inspect everything else.  It will certainly benefit from fresh seals and a new cam chain tensioner.  Also clean the crank sludge trap which will cost you next to nothing (new plug). 

[Dave Swanson]

Pulling the motor will also allow you to inspect the condition of the u-joint, and carrier bearing.  Also cleaning, inspecting and greasing all the splines in the final drive will cost next to nothing if they are in good shape and will be an excellent thing to do for the bike's future reliability.

That is a very special and desirable bike and should be treated as such. 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I agree with Dave 100%.

It's still nicer than my '75 Eldo police barn find/auction purchase. https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAb5JD

[czakky82]

If that’s not the perfect loop! I’m somewhere between: new cylinders, then ride n’ fix. Or tear down inspect and ride. Either way I’m jealous!

[cliffrod]

Hot damn- that’s a great bike to add to the garage.  My $0.02, I would pull & fix that engine as needed, do what Dave said for balance of service plus possibly replacing wiring harness if it’s compromised (it’s nice to eliminate all those little things that gang up  to create bigger issues).  If pistons aren’t bad, having millennium redo those cylinders may be a better originality option and a smoother running engine at a very comparable price.  A legit disc brake Eldorado is a top tier loop worth preserving.

Beyond that, clean as you like or don’t and ride it.   

[Don G]

If it was mine, I would give it a mechanical refurb, it is 50 years old. Pull the engine and trans out, pull them apart for inspection, if crank etc. is good have the cylinders replated, valve and guides if needed. service brakes, all bearings, fit new tires and proceed to enjoy it for what it is.  DonG

[Dave Swanson]

Having a source for dead nuts perfect wiring harnesses for our old Guzzi's is priceless.  I would certainly get one on order. 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Just my 2 cents worth on cylinder replating vs. new cylinder kits.

Replating (includes shipping), Millennium - $310 ea. x 2 = $620/pr. + piston rings - $135 = $755/pr. total. And you still have used pistons.

Cylinder kits from Crusty Cycle - $325.00 + shipping. $650/pr. + shipping. Crusty sources them from Stein-Dinse in Germany. I just installed them in a customer's Eldo engine. Virtually indistinguishable from Gilardoni kits. Piston assemblies weighed 5 grams (0.17637 ounces) more than the originals.

As for new cylinder kits not being "original" - unless one sources a pair of Pirelli MT53 tires, a Magneti Marelli 22NL battery, etc., it's never going to be totally "original". 

[John A]

If that’s not the perfect loop! I’m somewhere between: new cylinders, then ride n’ fix. Or tear down inspect and ride. Either way I’m jealous!

^^^^what he said. Wax and steel wool works well on rusty chrome. Check / repair generator mount when you yard the cylinders off. Then local trips to so sort it out and plan to go through everything at your leisure. Maybe clean the paint https://lukatdetail.com/store/

[Canuck750]

I took my 1972 Eldorado out for a ride this evening, it has been sitting for a couple months, forgot to plug in the battery tender but it immediately started right up. I restored the bike over ten years ago and I still love riding it. I enjoy it because I trust it, so at a minimum I would do what Don G says, strip and check the drive line, repair and replace as required, plus the wheel and steering bearings, replace seals, gaskets, wire harness, cables and brake pads and shoes.

Cosmetics are up to you but I were to pull a driveline I would at a minimum paint the frame before I put the driveline back in.

I wouldn’t trust my life on a 50 year old motorcycle without going through all the mechanical and electrical.

[guzziart]

Hey FG,
Very nice find!
Art

[Chuck in Indiana]

I took my 1972 Eldorado out for a ride this evening, it has been sitting for a couple months, forgot to plug in the battery tender but it immediately started right up. I restored the bike over ten years ago and I still love riding it. I enjoy it because I trust it, so at a minimum I would do what Don G says, strip and check the drive line, repair and replace as required, plus the wheel and steering bearings, replace seals, gaskets, wire harness, cables and brake pads and shoes.

Cosmetics are up to you but I were to pull a driveline I would at a minimum paint the frame before I put the driveline back in.

I wouldn’t trust my life on a 50 year old motorcycle without going through all the mechanical and electrical.

Brad, I'm with our favorite Canuckistanian.  Of course, I'm an antiquer, but this is an artifact. You will be surprised at how well it cleans up, and that is what I would do. Have Millenium do the cylinders, put in Greg's harness, and the rest is just cleanup and basic maintenance on an old machine. "My" Brad really likes his Eldo, and let his Grease O go to get it. You will like yours, too. There's *something* about a loop that is very endearing.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I was just cleaning up the AeroLario when a thought came to me.. I shouldn't have said our favorite Canuckistanian. There are several valuable Canadian members and I meant no criticism at all. I should have said "My favorite Canuckistanian restorer.." 

[fotoguzzi]

Bear I. Mind I already have a Loop but the disc brake on the Eldo is why I got it.
Who voted for the EldoVert, RK?

[Stretch]

WOW, what a  GREAT find!

I'd do the cylinders. If the originals aren't flaking, I probably wouldn't
tear the engine down completely. Wiring harness if that looks bad, as
others have said.

Change all the fluids, lube everything lubable within an inch of it's life,
slap a new set of tires on, maybe brake hoses, too, and enjoy it. Clean,
polish, and repaint the cosmetics as you see fit.

But ride it. I hate to see bikes bought and set aside to do nothing. They're
made to be ridden!   

                                                         -Stretch

[fotoguzzi]

Got the right head off with an air hammer, thanks for the tip Charlie! The barrel looks ok, no flaking, same ring around the top.

[fotoguzzi]

As of now 10 votes for fix the barrels and ride it. That’s what I’ll do.. one vote for full restoration and one for convert to EldoVert, although that might be a fun novelty I hear what you all said, keep original. I’ll save the old switches but will put on something a little more robust. At this time I don’t think I’ll take the motor out. I want to know it runs before doing any deep surgery.

[Canuck750]

What you are describing is basically what I completed on my friend Chris’s 1973 V7 Sport this spring. It looked like crap and the cylinders were original.
He ordered new std size rings, gaskets, carb kits, fuel and breather line and brought oil and gear oil to me.
Millenium did the cylinders machined to the original pistons and they gapped the new rings. I fitted new fudge on pin circlips. The carbs were ultrasonic cleaned and vapour blasted. I acid washed the engine, transmission and final drive in place using a pressure washer and mist coats of Napa Aluminum Brightner followed with high pressure water between each soaking.
I used a wire brush to knock the rusted paint off the frame then used a metal etch on a rag to prep the metal, rinse, dry and brush painted POR-15 over the exposed black frame and swing arm.
I replaced all the nuts and bolts I could get to with my stock
Of re-zinc plated fasteners or new stainless pieces.
The rims were polished on-site with a polish wheel on a power drill. Spokes were also polished onsite with a foam ball on a power drill. All the stainless and chrome were machine polished using my drill and autosol polish.
I replied the loose seat vinyl and used black shoe leather stain to clean up worn edges on the seat. The spokes were polished with a foam ball and stainless polish with a power drill.
I did replace most all of the wire terminal ends and wire brushed all the electrical connections.
The bikes tank and seat were previously repainted.
My friend was blown away by how good the bike looks and how great it runs. Total cost was under $1000.00.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Got the right head off with an air hammer, thanks for the tip Charlie! The barrel looks ok, no flaking, same ring around the top.

Glad it worked for you!

As of now 10 votes for fix the barrels and ride it. That’s what I’ll do.. one vote for full restoration and one for convert to EldoVert, although that might be a fun novelty I hear what you all said, keep original. I’ll save the old switches but will put on something a little more robust. At this time I don’t think I’ll take the motor out. I want to know it runs before doing any deep surgery.

The original CEV "snuffbox" switches are fine as long as you don't overload them. The original headlight in the US was a 45/40 watt sealed beam. Most owners replaced it with a 60/55 watt unit and then wondered why the switch and/or fuseblock melted! Even worse if lots of running lights were added. If one uses the original switches to activate relays and lets the relays handle all the load, the CEV switches last a long time (mine are going on 54 years and 111,000 miles).

It definitely should have new brake hoses, even then the brakes will still require a lot of effort. Guzzi fitted a too large master cylinder - PS15 - with the single F08 caliper. Rock hard lever, poor stopping power. Adding a second disk and caliper works well, so does fitting a PS13 master cylinder (with single F08), or fitting a single F09 caliper instead of the F08 (retaining the PS15 master). That original master cylinder is worth a few $$ even if the bore is pitted, so don't chuck it out. Same with those earlier F08 calipers.

[Dave Swanson]

As of now 10 votes for fix the barrels and ride it. That’s what I’ll do.. one vote for full restoration and one for convert to EldoVert, although that might be a fun novelty I hear what you all said, keep original.

You probably would have gotten 12 votes for a category such as "tender rejuvination".   

[m13]

Congrats. a nice bike. On Flaking?,..I bought a new Eldorado 1973 in 1973. Regular maintenance, daily driver and chrome flaked 2 years later at 22,000. So, my opinion is that it is not just those cylinders that have been sitting that flake but that they ALL will flake and not worth risking possible future damage even if they look ok for now. Inspect the drivetrain/bearings and do not touch the tin or,... do anything you desire it's just an old motorcycle ( people screaming!) and in the eye of the beholder (current owner) it's lovely. Enjoy!

[fotoguzzi]

This guy lives about 20 miles from me so I won’t have to pay shipping.
Would these pistons need to be balanced or can they go right in?

https://www.crustycycle.com/products/moto-guzzi-cylinder-complete-83mm-850t-t3-eldorado-850gt

[blackcat]

As above but I'd send the frame out to be powder coated or conventional paint and you can do the rest of the tin work or not as time goes by.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

This guy lives about 20 miles from me so I won’t have to pay shipping.
Would these pistons need to be balanced or can they go right in?

https://www.crustycycle.com/products/moto-guzzi-cylinder-complete-83mm-850t-t3-eldorado-850gt

As I posted above, I just installed a set in a customer's Eldo engine, those pistons assemblies are within 5 grams of the originals, so no balancing of anything is necessary.

[73 sport]

  I don't understand the title "LONG new to me". Can someone please explain?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

  I don't understand the title "LONG new to me". Can someone please explain?

"LONG" is a warning to readers that his post is long in length. "New to me" means he just acquired the Old Eldorado.

[lazlokovacs]

I just added a 'make eldovert' vote because I've been riding my eldovert all week and it's hands down the most reliable and satisfying motorbike I've ever owned! (up to about 60mph that is)

Loops are just such wonderful machines!

About to embark on rebuilding another one, which will have a later Tonti 5-speed and be slightly hot rodded

Nice bike!

[73 sport]

        Thanks ,Charlie, for the interpretation. I've never seen or heard that type of title or comment structure before.