Regarding plastic caged bearings

[Moda253]

Regarding plastic caged bearings, something about that seems prone to failure. And that worries me because the words prone to failure on a motorcycle makes me a little nervous. Is this something I should be looking into swapping out or should I just not worry about it on my 24 year old Jackal?

Is swapping them out an expensive or over burdensome venture?

I guess I am probably looking to calm my nerves about it more than anything but I also want to know, ya know?

[bigbikerrick]

If your Jackal shifts well, and the transmission is not leaking, or having any other issues, I would just run conventional gear oil, not the fancy synthetic stuff, and not worry too much  about the bearing cages. If you ever have to open the gear box for any other reason, then I would look to see if plastic caged bearings are in there. I think the consensus was that in some  instances, when synthetic oil got hot, it could affect the plastic cages. .There is alot of old discussion on the subject here. Interesting reading.
Rick.

[Moda253]

I don’t know of this is conventional or not but this is what I bought.

https://a.co/d/8MWn7gY

[Tom H]

From the add, I would say conventional not syn.

Tom

[Chuck in Indiana]

From ancient memory.. *some* synthetics can affect the plastic cages. If you can't do the work..yes, it is expensive. Again from memory the replacement bearings were at $50-75 each at the time. Add maybe 5 hours labor. Or more.

[Joliet Jim]

Evidently hasn't broken in 24 years like they haven't broken in my 23 year old Stone. I don't lose any sleep over it. Ride it and use dead dinosaur oil.

[Wayne Orwig]

Yes, that bike came with the plastic caged bearings.
Yes, the labor costs to replace are pretty high. And the bearings are a bit pricey too.
But, just use dead dino juice and ride it.
Worry less, ride more.

Maybe think about replacing them if you have the clutch replaced. Ignore it otherwise.

[Moda253]

Yes, that bike came with the plastic caged bearings.
Yes, the labor costs to replace are pretty high. And the bearings are a bit pricey too.
But, just use dead dino juice and ride it.
Worry less, ride more.

Maybe think about replacing them if you have the clutch replaced. Ignore it otherwise.

I just pressed the hypothetical “like” button

[Tom H]

I just pressed the hypothetical “like” button

 

Now that just gave me a good laugh!!
Tom

[MotoG5]

Yes, that bike came with the plastic caged bearings.
Yes, the labor costs to replace are pretty high. And the bearings are a bit pricey too.
But, just use dead dino juice and ride it.
Worry less, ride more.

Maybe think about replacing them if you have the clutch replaced. Ignore it otherwise.

Yes! 

[John A]

Use this https://www.dupont.com/products/molykote-m-gear-oil-additive.html
Or suitable substitute in the bevel box but not in the transmission where it could be detrimental.
It may say here which esters affect the plastic https://youtu.be/0am0ekHlvGM?si=VKsxpab46HAZ9Ok6

[bigbikerrick]

Does anyone know what years of Guzzi 5 speeds have the plastic caged bearings? I remember my 73 eldo did not have them, from back when I shimmed my shift drum.
Rick.

[Frenchfrog]

I think they started using them in the early 90's Rick....

[twowheeladdict]

Evidently hasn't broken in 24 years like they haven't broken in my 23 year old Stone. I don't lose any sleep over it. Ride it and use dead dinosaur oil.

LOL!  The myth continues. 

[Wayne Orwig]

Does anyone know what years of Guzzi 5 speeds have the plastic caged bearings? I remember my 73 eldo did not have them, from back when I shimmed my shift drum.
Rick.

Any old 5 speed from the mid 80s is my understanding.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Does anyone know what years of Guzzi 5 speeds have the plastic caged bearings? I remember my 73 eldo did not have them, from back when I shimmed my shift drum.
Rick.

My '90 Cal III had them (now replaced), so sometime previous to that.

[Dilliw]

Regarding plastic caged bearings, something about that seems prone to failure. And that worries me because the words prone to failure on a motorcycle makes me a little nervous. Is this something I should be looking into swapping out or should I just not worry about it on my 24 year old Jackal?

Is swapping them out an expensive or over burdensome venture?

I guess I am probably looking to calm my nerves about it more than anything but I also want to know, ya know?

Mine went bang while riding the Dragon and I made it another 300 miles home.  It probably had at least 10 more left in it too!

[Moparnut72]

Not a Guzzi but my old Airhead, R75/5 lost the cage on the transmission input shaft. It felt like the bike had a universal joint in the middle of the frame when I took off from a stop. I think the shaft would come off center when the clutch was disengaged but would recenter itself after getting underway. It broke in Ohio and I was able to ride it back to Colorado, I was in the Army and had to get back. It had the 6.3 gallon tank so I could go 300 miles between stops.
kk

[bigbikerrick]

I was wondering if my 98 EV would have the plastic bearing cages? In reading that Georges EV had the issue, and it looks like his is a 2003, I would guess my 98 has the plastic cages, as well.
Rick.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I was wondering if my 98 EV would have the plastic bearing cages? In reading that Georges EV had the issue, and it looks like his is a 2003, I would guess my 98 has the plastic cages, as well.
Rick.

Yes, it definitely has them, unless someone has already replaced them.

It's not only the plastic cages I don't like, it's also the fewer number of balls per row. Early metal cage bearings had 14 per row (28 total) and the plastic cage bearings only have 9 per row (18 total).

[Joliet Jim]

LOL!  The myth continues.

Which myth?

[Tom]

Dino vs non-dino???   

[Dilliw]

Dino vs non-dino???   

It could be.   

Orwig found a paper from SKF that showed that the use of synthetic oil did shorten the life of the poly cages.  But others, including folks in the Husky forums (old Husky kickers use the same bearings)  thought it was the result of bearings with fewer balls.  Here's a thread from back in the day:

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=77695.0

 

[Tom]

Dino for the bikes that the factory recommends it's usage.  Newer bikes non-dino if recommended.  Cheaper too if you follow the factory recommendations.  Only exemption is if the oil manufacturer says that non-dino can be substituted for dino. 

[johnwesley]

I was wondering if my 98 EV would have the plastic bearing cages? In reading that Georges EV had the issue, and it looks like his is a 2003, I would guess my 98 has the plastic cages, as well.
Rick.

Are you talking about George the iowa MGNOC rep?

[bigbikerrick]

Are you talking about George the iowa MGNOC rep?

 I was referring to George Westbury, that posted above.
Rick

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Though it's well understood what is meant by "dino oil," the term is a misnomer.
https://www.powells.com/post/original-essays/does-oil-come-from-dinosaurs

[SIR REAL ED]

Though it's well understood what is meant by "dino oil," the term is a misnomer.
https://www.powells.com/post/original-essays/does-oil-come-from-dinosaurs

I wondered what the hoopla was about plastic caged bearings.  Just saw my first one today.

Are these things as rare as UFO's?

If you read this article, and then connect the dots, it is pretty obvious that Dino-Oil or Synthetic-Oil are not destroying plastic caged bearings, Gobal Warming is.

We're gonna need a Ph.D only section of Wild Guzzi to sort out some of these issues.....

[SIR REAL ED]

You guys got me curious, so I sent a message to the experts inquiring about lubrication for bearings with "plastic" cages.

https://www.skf.com/us/support/contact

I saw my first one ever yesterday.  SKF # BB1B 420205.  Non-standard size 25mm x 52mm x 12mm

I agree with Charlie, I was a bit surprised to only see 8 balls between the races.  I think a more "normal" number would have been 10-12.

If I hear back from SKF, I'll let you know what they recommend.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

You guys got me curious, so I sent a message to the experts inquiring about lubrication for bearings with "plastic" cages.

https://www.skf.com/us/support/contact

I saw my first one ever yesterday.  SKF # BB1B 420205.  Non-standard size 25mm x 52mm x 12mm

I agree with Charlie, I was a bit surprised to only see 8 balls between the races.  I think a more "normal" number would have been 10-12.

If I hear back from SKF, I'll let you know what they recommend.

https://www.123bearing.com/bearing-housing/deep-groove-bearing/single-row/bb1b-420205-skf