What’s the deal on bike sales?!

[Perazzimx14]

As Jay Leno once said, regarding motorcycle prices, "You didn't pay too much, you just sold too soon!" 

Another misconception is age equals value. Just because something is old does not mean its valuable.

[Joliet Jim]

Where did you get the above info on discretionary income?   And to be clear, interest rates have gone up over the last couple years to about average for the last 50 years, they are no where near historically high rates.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS

Yeah it was fun trying to finance stuff in the early 80s.

[twowheeladdict]

Sometimes you just have to look at the ownership of a motorcycle the same way as taking a vacation.  Money is spent and memories are made.  The difference between what it cost to buy and what you sold it for is money spent to have experiences and make memories. 

I'm up to seven bikes because I don't want to let any of them go. 

[Perazzimx14]

Yeah it was fun trying to finance stuff in the early 80s.

I'm in the camp of you have to finance a toy to be able to afford it, you cannot afford it.

[Kev m]

I'm in the camp of you have to finance a toy to be able to afford it, you cannot afford it.

A nice sentiment but by THAT logic I wouldn't have bought a new motorcycle until my late 40's instead of early 20's.

Sure one can get carried away with financing life, but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.

I'm glad I don't finance em NOW, but it took a long time to get to that point.

[Perazzimx14]

A nice sentiment but by THAT logic I wouldn't have bought a new motorcycle until my late 40's instead of early 20's.

Sure one can get carried away with financing life, but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.

I'm glad I don't finance em NOW, but it took a long time to get to that point.

On the overwhelming chance I do live to see tomorrow I don't want to be burden with unnecessary debt and paying interest on negative equity.

[Kev m]

On the overwhelming chance I do live to see tomorrow I don't want to be burden with unnecessary debt and paying interest on negative equity.

bla bla bla

Again, I fully understand the sentiment.

But what is "necessary" and what is "not necessary"? Is it black and white?

Is a mortgage good debt or bad debt?

How about a student loan good debt or bad debt?

How about vehicle loan - because many people NEED a vehicle to get to work in the first place.

I can hear the whingy nasally voice now "but you don't NEED a new _______________ you can buy a cheaper, smaller, used, __________"

Sure, how about the guy (like me) who NEEDED a reliable vehicle to get back and forth to work and chose a motorcycle over a car?

How about the fact that those bikes were Harleys in the 90s... so every payment actually built equity.

When I was done with them sure they'd cost me interest and maybe a grand or two, but I got a lot of dependable usage out of them during that time.

Yeah yeah, you said a toy, but all I'm pointing out here is that there is a ton of gray area.

I think most people who aren't independently wealthy will have to use financing at some point in their lives. The hope is they do so as responsibly as possible.

Though I'll add that I'm damn glad we don't use it for much these days.

[yrunvs]

Since when is a motorcycle a "toy"? Mine is a tool used for transportation. Some people have no choice but to finance transportation. I don't finance my motorcycles anymore but there was a day when I did. If you play with your motorcycles then I guess maybe they are a toy??

[kingoffleece]

The only two bikes I ever financed were two H-D's in the 80's.  Made money on one and broke even on the other.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The younger folks would rather have the latest cellphone than a smelly motorbike that requires maintenance.

Roy

[testa_di_formaggio]

Freight costs. Yes this has killed small parts sales. I have played with old Mercury outboards for years and have a lot of parts. I used to sell a lot on eBay but don't even bother to try any more. Shipping is so high nobody buys anything no matter how much they want it. Only unobtainium sells. Another enthusiast will take most of my stuff that I no longer want but I will deliver it at the next boat race which we will both attend. The rest goes in the trash and to a local scrap dealer. A shame as there are guys out there that could use it. Private parties can't ship at reasonable costs, businesses get a large break.
kk

Outstanding observation, 500% correct.

TdF

[MerleLowe]

I'm in the camp of you have to finance a toy to be able to afford it, you cannot afford it.

My Tiger 660 is 2.9%.  I'd lose money by moving the money from where it is to pay off the bike.

[twowheeladdict]

Boy this thread took a turn. 


“The lady doth protest too much, methinks”

[Perazzimx14]

Since when is a motorcycle a "toy"? Mine is a tool used for transportation. Some people have no choice but to finance transportation. I don't finance my motorcycles anymore but there was a day when I did. If you play with your motorcycles then I guess maybe they are a toy??

At least in the good ole US of A motorcycle's are a choice not a necessity. Motorcycles typically cost more per mile top operate than automobiles so it actually a poor choice for transportation. But that's your choice.

My Tiger 660 is 2.9%.  I'd lose money by moving the money from where it is to pay off the bike.

So what you are saying is you could have purchased the bike w/o taking a loan?

There is a big difference in having to verses choosing to take out a loan.

I'll stick by my original statement if you have to finance a toy to be able to afford it, you cannot afford it.


 

[Huzo]

I’ve come to the conclusion that most aspects of this problem can be circumvented, if you just buy the bike  you want and don’t sell it the first time the bug hits.
Although…
Just yesterday I saw my first V100 in the wild and spoke to the owner at length. He was on a major journey down the East coast of Australia and was mid way across the Nullarbor en route to Perth. I hung around to see/hear him depart and apart from the “crash” when he engaged first gear….(and most of the subsequent ones as he headed off), I thought how old my Norge is getting.
I had better NOT ride a Stelvio…!
If I saw a gloss red one with wire wheels and outboard spokes…? I think I’d give in…

[inditx]

Huzo,
Apart from the current market conditions, you and a few others have helped me realize that it’s best to withdraw it from sale at this time.
Perhaps I’ll fall in love again with her during this season. A few more farkles can’t hurt ay
inditx

[Clifton]

I'm did my part to help bike sales yesterday when I found a lightly used Trail.

[twowings]

There are no more debtor's prisons so I will chose the bike I want and pay for it how I can.

[Huzo]

 

I'm did my part to help bike sales yesterday when I found a lightly used Trail.

You’ll never be able to go anywhere on something like THAT…!

[Clifton]

You’ll never be able to go anywhere on something like THAT…!

LOL if I do it'll take a while!

[Huzo]

I’m not so sure.
15,000 km took 6 weeks…

[twowheeladdict]

I’m not so sure.
15,000 km took 6 weeks…

Kilometers sure make the ride seem more impressive. 

[Clifton]

Nevertheless 225 miles a day every day for 6 weeks is a lot on a loaded down 125.

[Huzo]

Nevertheless 225 miles a day every day for 6 weeks is a lot on a loaded down 125.

Yes and it’s a 110.
You can read the thread, it’s called Cape to Cape..(probably go right ‘round).

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Three of the motorcycles I've bought used in the past two years were ones that I had never found for sale while they were actively for sale before. I'd only found listings and auctions for them from years ago. People cleared out some oddities and they were on my wishlist. I subscribe to BaT and from the prices there, it seems that many vintage prices peaked in 2022-2023. Some dealerships are slowly backing down on their massive Additional Dealer Markup now that supply has been catching up and folks are able to find more of the models they want available on the floor at multiple dealerships in the same area.

You'll have a lot of fun with that Honda Trail 125. I rode mine 4k miles coast to coast across the USA, 15 days riding 1 day off, last year after a few shorter tours with the bike. Very reliable and capable of just about anything other than speed. You'll likely want to replace the stock seat for any saddle time longer than 10 minutes.

[Clifton]

Three of the motorcycles I've bought used in the past two years were ones that I had never found for sale while they were actively for sale before.....

....You'll have a lot of fun with that Honda Trail 125. I rode mine 4k miles coast to coast across the USA weeks last year after a few shorter tours with the bike. Very reliable and capable of just about anything other than speed. You'll likely want to replace the stock seat for any saddle time longer than 10 minutes.

Yeah I'd looked at these little bikes over the last couple years but by the time I added "destination" and doc fee they were $4,400. This 2022 they had on the floor with 250 miles looked like new (the PO traded it for a scooter). They accepted my offer of $3,000 (plus 6% tax) so it came home with me.

I've enjoyed it so far just riding around locally. The engine is smooth and it shifts nice but it could use an extra gear in the form of a lower first on trails IMO.
LOL and a few more HP. But I have an XT250 for when I want that.

WOW coast to coast on a Trail is amazing! I've read of some people doing longer trips on Mini Motos, I don't believe I could do that.
Thanks for the seat suggestion, what seat did you switch to?

[twowheeladdict]

Three of the motorcycles I've bought used in the past two years were ones that I had never found for sale while they were actively for sale before. I'd only found listings and auctions for them from years ago. People cleared out some oddities and they were on my wishlist. I subscribe to BaT and from the prices there, it seems that many vintage prices peaked in 2022-2023. Some dealerships are slowly backing down on their massive Additional Dealer Markup now that supply has been catching up and folks are able to find more of the models they want available on the floor at multiple dealerships in the same area.

You'll have a lot of fun with that Honda Trail 125. I rode mine 4k miles coast to coast across the USA weeks last year after a few shorter tours with the bike. Very reliable and capable of just about anything other than speed. You'll likely want to replace the stock seat for any saddle time longer than 10 minutes.

Did you do the TAT or take some other route? 

[twowheeladdict]

Yeah I'd looked at these little bikes over the last couple years but by the time I added "destination" and doc fee they were $4,400. This 2022 they had on the floor with 250 miles looked like new (the PO traded it for a scooter). They accepted my offer of $3,000 (plus 6% tax) so it came home with me.

I've enjoyed it so far just riding around locally. The engine is smooth and it shifts nice but it could use an extra gear in the form of a lower first on trails IMO.
LOL and a few more HP. But I have an XT250 for when I want that.

WOW coast to coast on a Trail is amazing! I've read of some people doing longer trips on Mini Motos, I don't believe I could do that.
Thanks for the seat suggestion, what seat did you switch to?

I thought I wanted one, but I still think my Van Van 200 does more for me.  A friend traded bikes straight up for one and only kept it a couple months.  It couldn't hang with the rest of the small bore riders, even those on a Grom in the hills of middle Tennessee.  I was thinking of one as a second bike when I go camping.  Something to run around the campground and light exploring, but my Van Van 200 already fills that niche.

They definitely don't appear to be keepers because there are several used ones out there even though supply was sparse when they first came out. 

Around here if you can't maintain 50 mph you are a hazard on the roads.   

[Perazzimx14]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Geb_QFxp_hs

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Sounds like you got a really good price on it.

A cheap (~$10-15) and simple mod you can do for gearing is to replace the front sprocket with a 13T, specifically a "JTF273.13". Can keep the same 108 link #428 chain on it with that swap. The stock IRC GP-5 tires are not good at all in loose terrain, and if you run oversize (tall) knobbies then that gearing change can almost perfectly offset the added tire circumference in terms of ABS and speedometer/odometer accuracy which read rear wheel speed from the countershaft. For some steep riding in Colorado I've considered dropping a tooth from the front sprocket after having ridden a friend's CT125 with it, but still I've gotten the bike to go where I need it to with stock gearing and it's happier keeping the revs down when rolling on pavement at wide open throttle. If I were doing nothing but trail riding, I would regear it. In New Zealand there is a farm kit offered for the bike which among other things consists of a 13T front and 51T rear sprocket for truly agricultural gearing.

This is the seat I have on mine: https://www.ebay.com/itm/114497541750
For being some knock-off item that obviously put the Honda logo on their product without licensing, it's been very comfortable and top notch quality. The seat pan looks OEM though I think it may be derived from an older Honda Dream model. I bought a Corbin saddle for the bike and ended up reselling it because the fit and finish were poor quality, even if it may have been just as comfortable. If you are on the taller side or find your tail bone hitting against the grab handle on the rear carrier, you may want to consider the MotolordD casual seat. The primary market for these bikes has been Japan and Thailand, so many of the accessories you'll find for them come from those countries. Webike Japan and Beezdeals are among the reputable sites you can buy those accessories from internationally.

Did you do the TAT or take some other route? 

I rode 99% pavement. Mix of back roads and some sketchy highway riding where it was difficult to avoid.




The TAT would be a fun challenge on this little bike, but the Smokey Mountain 500 has been tempting me more for a future trip. It's been a great bike for trail riding and camping in the Colorado Rockies. 2021 and 2022 I rode it all year with a snow chain on the rear tire when things got icy.




I've certainly noticed all the used ones that go for sale with low miles. I think a lot of people bought them with mismatched expectations. Nostalgia buyers who bought the bike but then didn't actually find themselves getting back into riding, it was a toy for them and just ended up sitting around. People who bought it expecting it to be a proper dual sport rather than a trail-modified Honda Wave/Super Cub. And people who just need more speed to be comfortable in traffic, which is very understandable though they could have done some research and found this to be the slowest 125cc Honda mini moto before buying it. It's a bike that excels at nothing. There are more specialized motorcycles at around the same price point that are more capable in different ways, even the Honda XR150L would beat the Trail 125 at nearly everything other than approachability, large cargo rack, and style. I enjoy taking the slower and more scenic route, and don't think I can ride anywhere on the little bike without smiling.