Valve clearances/ tdc

[NHMike]

Having a bit of trouble doing this correctly, have scoured the forum and have read some good info but still am struggling. I attempted to adjust the valves on my 23 stone over the weekend, bike makes a lot more clatter now. So I figured I better redo. I can’t seem to get the piston on the left side to move the straw in the sp opening, however the right side piston is moving fine.

I’m guessing I’m doing something wrong, just can’t seem to figure it out. The bike is on Jack, is in 6th gear. When I went through this process over the weekend everything seemed straight forward and actually seemed pretty simple. But clearly something is off.

Thanks.

[Stretch]

Make sure that you're on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke.

Rotate the rear wheel, watch the straw/stick/spoke you stuck in the spark plug
hole to make sure the piston is at the top of it's stroke on the side you want to adjust.
Then, grab the rockers and make sure that you can feel just a bit of play. If there is
that tiny bit of play, you're on the compression stroke. If not, you're on the exhaust
stroke and you need to rotate the engine one more revolution. You'll get it.

Repeat for the other side, moving the straw/stick/spoke to that cylinder to check that it's
at TDC on the compression stroke.

                                                       -Stretch

[Huzo]

So you’re using the same procedure but can’t find the piston crown ?
Are you using something flexible like a straw ? There are instances here where someone has used a plastic rod or pencil and snapped it off in the cylinder.

[NHMike]

Make sure that you're on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke.

Rotate the rear wheel, watch the straw/stick/spoke you stuck in the spark plug
hole to make sure the piston is at the top of it's stroke on the side you want to adjust.
Then, grab the rockers and make sure that you can feel just a bit of play. If there is
that tiny bit of play, you're on the compression stroke. If not, you're on the exhaust
stroke and you need to rotate the engine one more revolution. You'll get it.

Repeat for the other side, moving the straw/stick/spoke to that cylinder to check that it's
at TDC on the compression stroke.

Thank you, like I said, I can’t get the piston to move on the left side, very strange because on the right side it moves the straw fine.

                                                       -Stretch

[NHMike]

So you’re using the same procedure but can’t find the piston crown ?
Are you using something flexible like a straw ? There are instances here where someone has used a plastic rod or pencil and snapped it off in the cylinder.

Using a straw, can’t seem to get the piston to move on left side.

[Huzo]

If you’re holding the straw on that angle, you won’t succeed.
It needs to be pointing straighter down into the cylinder.

[NHMike]

If you’re holding the straw on that angle, you won’t succeed.
It needs to be pointing straighter down into the cylinder.

Using exact same method on other side and the straw moves fine.

[Huzo]

Using exact same method on other side and the straw moves fine.

You are not expecting the piston to be at TDC at the same time as the right hand side are you ?
I mean, the piston is in there and if you’ll just poke the thing a little more vertically, then you will feel it.There is no mystery to it, can you get an assistant ?

[NHMike]

You are not expecting the piston to be at TDC at the same time as the right hand side are you ?
I mean, the piston is in there and if you’ll just poke the thing a little more vertically, then you will feel it.There is no mystery to it, can you get an assistant ?

No, I get that. I was saying that I can’t get the piston on left side to move the straw at all? Very strange?

[Dirk_S]

This piston is indeed moving, after all both are attached to the same crank pin.

I wold hold the straw so that it’s parallel with the spark plug opening, that way it’s more perpendicular with the piston crown and you’ll observe a more obvious lift and drop of the straw. If you leave it rest, the straw might simply be getting pinched. Good practice with the straw, because if you were using a screwdriver or chopstick and just letting it rest rather than holding it parallel, you would quite likely snap the chopstick or risk damaging the piston/cylinder/head with a screwdriver.

[Kev m]

Yeah the piston IS moving or you have much MUCH bigger problems.

It's you and how you're positioning the straw. Get a helper to hold it as parallel to the cylinder as possible.

Or you might buy a TDC finder tool that threads into the spark plug hole. After decades of running marks (big blocks) and chopsticks/straws (smallblocks) I said screw it and picked one up on Amazon last valve check and it was perfect. Compression makes it pop up and Bob's your uncle.

[Stretch]

Your straw's hung up on the spark plug threads.

Get yourself a STRONG flashlight, point it directly down the
spark plug hole, and rotate the rear wheel while looking down it.
You'll SEE the piston moving! Than you'll see what I mean about
the end of the straw being hung up.

That piston's in there unless aliens have absconded with it in the night! 

                                  -Stretch

[Huzo]

How bad is the clatter you mentioned ?
Is it valve noise or has something let go on the left side ?
Your description could go a bit further, you say you “can’t get it to move”, does that mean you can’t see/feel it move, or you can see it’s not moving.
The latter means something (big end) has let go.

[NHMike]

How bad is the clatter you mentioned ?
Is it valve noise or has something let go on the left side ?
Your description could go a bit further, you say you “can’t get it to move”, does that mean you can’t see/feel it move, or you can see it’s not moving.
The latter means something (big end) has let go.


Pretty sure it’s valve noise, would anyone here have a few minutes to do a video call to see what I’m talking about?

Thanks

[NHMike]

Yeah the piston IS moving or you have much MUCH bigger problems.

It's you and how you're positioning the straw. Get a helper to hold it as parallel to the cylinder as possible.

Or you might buy a TDC finder tool that threads into the spark plug hole. After decades of running marks (big blocks) and chopsticks/straws (smallblocks) I said screw it and picked one up on Amazon last valve check and it was perfect. Compression makes it pop up and Bob's your uncle.

Do you rennet the name in that tool fromAmazon?or  have a pic of it thanks!!

[Dirk_S]

Not sure where you’re at on the New Hampshire coast (all 20 miles of it), but I’ll be visiting friends in Dover this Saturday. If you’re close enough and need some assistance, I could stop by.

[NHMike]

Not sure where you’re at on the New Hampshire coast (all 20 miles of it), but I’ll be visiting friends in Dover this Saturday. If you’re close enough and need some assistance, I could stop by.

Thank you so much for the offer!! Of course I have a wedding this weekend 😬 Otherwise I would absolutely would love to get  some assistance. Where are you located?

[Huzo]

Give me your cell # if you like and I’ll call.

[Kev m]

Do you rennet the name in that tool fromAmazon?or  have a pic of it thanks!!

Oops

eBay not Amazon. Here's the link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133376848415

If you need, hit me up with any questions.

[guzzisteve]

Search--------------------

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=TDC+tool

[NHMike]

Give me your cell # if you like and I’ll call.

603 682-1715

Thank you!

[NHMike]

Oops

eBay not Amazon. Here's the link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133376848415

If you need, hit me up with any questions.



Thank you!   So the guzzi sp threads are 10mm? I found similar on Amazon but it was 14mm.

[Kev m]

Thank you!   So the guzzi sp threads are 10mm? I found similar on Amazon but it was 14mm.

I forget which end I use. That tool has two different threads one at each end. It's more obvious which you use when you're holding it next to the spark plug you just pulled.

[NHMike]

Having a bit of trouble doing this correctly, have scoured the forum and have read some good info but still am struggling. I attempted to adjust the valves on my 23 stone over the weekend, bike makes a lot more clatter now. So I figured I better redo. I can’t seem to get the piston on the left side to move the straw in the sp opening, however the right side piston is moving fine.


Just got off the phone with Pete, he talked me through the tdc process, pistons are moving fine just need to take my time fiddling with it tomorrow. Definitely a learning curve, thanks to everyone for all you helpful tutoring! I love  this bike so much and wouldn’t want to bugger it up!!🤪

I’m guessing I’m doing something wrong, just can’t seem to figure it out. The bike is on Jack, is in 6th gear. When I went through this process over the weekend everything seemed straight forward and actually seemed pretty simple. But clearly something is off.

Thanks.

[wirespokes]

Do the new bikes not have timing marks?

[Kev m]

Do the new bikes not have timing marks?

Nope, not for a decade or more...

[PeteS]

Not sure about other models but there are timing marks on the V85 timing gears under the cover. Fairly useless though.
Trying to find TDC through a spark plug hole is pretty klugey. Anyone who has degreed cams using dial indicators and degree wheels knows little changes +/- 2-3 degrees around TDC. On these later bikes it may not be so critical if the base circle on the cam extends  beyond that point but on the earlier tontis like my LeMans its not at the base circle at TDC. Only way to set them correctly is with the marks on the flywheel and even those are not spot on.

Pete

[Dirk_S]

Not sure about other models but there are timing marks on the V85 timing gears under the cover. Fairly useless though.
Trying to find TDC through a spark plug hole is pretty klugey. Anyone who has degreed cams using dial indicators and degree wheels knows little changes +/- 2-3 degrees around TDC. On these later bikes it may not be so critical if the base circle on the cam extends  beyond that point but on the earlier tontis like my LeMans its not at the base circle at TDC. Only way to set them correctly is with the marks on the flywheel and even those are not spot on.

Pete

I wish I could recall where I read it—possibly just a comment from an owner with mechanical knowledge—but I read that these small blocks have a good amount of degree distance to work with (more base distance) when doing valves at TDC, that one does not need to be too precise.

[Moparnut72]

I wish I could recall where I read it—possibly just a comment from an owner with mechanical knowledge—but I read that these small blocks have a good mount of degree distance to work (base circle)with when doing valves at TDC, that one does not need to be too precise.

Yes, you are right. This applies to the V7s as well as most engines except for highly modified race engines with major overlap but I would think it applies to those as well. All the cams I have seen have had a very large, long, base circle.
kk

[Kev m]

Yes, you are right. This applies to the V7s as well as most engines except for highly modified race engines with major overlap but I would think it applies to those as well. All the cams I have seen have had a very large, long, base circle.
kk

Yup - I've never owned or worked on a Guzzi where it mattered.

Hell I MADE my own timing marks on the alternator of the MKI (still a dry one) so I can rotate the motor by tool instead of rear wheel.

And all my big blocks were fine simply aligning the flywheel marks in the same manner for valve adjustments.