Author Topic: Roller cam? (Read 3177 times)

Nowheelies · « **on:** January 07, 2025, 07:28:41 PM »

6,000 miles ago (now has 17,000) I bought a 2012 Norge. The serial number suggests it was built before the roller version was available. I assume everyone agrees it is not a matter of if, but when the motor eats itself up over this unpleasant bit of engineering. No argument there.

What I cannot seem to find is how to determine whether this repair has been done or not. No obvious problems yet. I have changed oil and there did not seem to be any abnormal metal bits. Exotic weight oil ($$$) was put back in, if it matters. I have no idea if that will help prolong the inevitable.

Winter is a good time of the year to fuss with it and I finally have time to sort it out. Any opinions?

guzzisteve · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2025, 07:55:29 PM »

If you have your valve covers off you can see the fork & roller. Simple. Lots of pics on here & other forums show flats & rollers.

Pic borrowed from Griso Ghetto & Pete Roper write-up(excellent)

Nowheelies · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2025, 08:29:08 PM »

Well, that seems much easier than I anticipated. Thank you very much.

And on a marginally related note, I bought this bike on a whim, knew very little about Guzzis. Geez Louise! I have had more fun on this bike than any other highway bike I have ever ridden. It pays to be a bit adventurous when buying toys. Sometimes.

guzzisteve · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2025, 08:53:03 PM »

I would do the conversion if not done. If you are mechanical minded it shouldn't be a bad job.

Gliderjohn · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2025, 08:55:42 PM »

The Norge is a wonderful mileage eater. Enjoy!

GliderJohn

MotoG5 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2025, 08:13:22 PM »

I did the roller conversion on my 2012 Stelvio NTX with a roller kit supplied by the dealer under warranty. The bike had around 12k miles on it at the time and showed some issues just starting to show up when the flat tappets and cams were pulled. I later sold the the bike with around 40k on it. No problems after the conversion. If your bike has the flats get them changed out as soon as you can. If not just keep riding and smiling.

Nowheelies · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2025, 01:37:38 PM »

Well, bummer. Finally warm enough to revisit this little problem of mine. Unfortunately I have the flat tappet cam. One more bit of nonsense to add to my list of things that need done sooner than later.

John Warner · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2025, 02:41:31 PM »

Bummer indeed!

Roller Kits are getting scarce from what I can fathom, and Piaggio are no longer entertaining claims, according to some.

Contact Agostinis in Mandello to enquire about the Kits, they'll need your VIN number and a photo of the Cambox to determine which Kit you need.
https://www.agostinimandello.com/en/contact

Nowheelies · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2025, 02:52:47 PM »

Digging deeper into this problem I am starting to get uncomfortable. I had this silly notion I would be able to pop the valve covers, unbolt the old part and bolt in the new part. Upon looking at various posts and videos (precious few) I see engines being removed and complete tear downs. I have a 2012 which apparently uses Kit B and presumably does not require head removal. I am going to buy a service manual regardless of this issue so maybe I will get a clearer picture of what I am in for. I am not going to attempt to disassemble the engine anywhere past getting into the top of the heads.

I know this is personal in nature as to how far to take things, but for a bike that I bought for less than $5K, is this getting too the point I should drive it until it dies and buy another bike? It hurts me to even say such things. I really like the bike, but have a low tolerance for toys turning into problems that I cannot fix myself.

Or to quote a line from The Kid, "somebody call the Waambulance"

Nowheelies · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2025, 02:59:31 PM »

Quote from: John Warner on February 24, 2025, 02:41:31 PM

Bummer indeed!

Roller Kits are getting scarce from what I can fathom, and Piaggio are no longer entertaining claims, according to some.

Contact Agostinis in Mandello to enquire about the Kits, they'll need your VIN number and a photo of the Cambox to determine which Kit you need.
https://www.agostinimandello.com/en/contact

Thank you! I am going to dig into this a bit more and see if I what to tackle this myself or get some quotes from the closest MG dealer and a local bike place that does good work.

Littlefield · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2025, 06:50:31 PM »

GTM shows an 8v roller rocker conversion. Doesn’t mention tappets.

MGrego · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2025, 07:07:23 PM »

I had a 2012 Norge and did the conversion myself, in my driveway, in one afternoon. No need to remove the heads. The V11 LeMans forum has the "definitive guide to rollerization" by Pete Roper. It's a step by step guide. If you are mechanical at all you can do it.

guzzisteve · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2025, 07:14:07 PM »

It doesn't take very long, couple hours book time. Don't let them say all day. Go somewhere else. Our shop made the time study for the original changing of flats to not so flat ones in 09. Then doubled the time.
Where you located?
I will go get my Tech bulletin # for you to look up.

+1 on what MGrego says Pete has a good write-up over on Ghetto

Tech Bul #2014-004 in the USA The one I use is dated April 2, 2009 it's all the same for just pulling cam boxes.

MCR · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2025, 01:34:20 AM »

I did this myself two years ago, right after I bought my 2011 built Norge.
I followed this https://www.grisoghetto.com/t1987-roper-tech-tappet-inspection-on-flattie-8v tread. It's not hard, but I recommend you follow all the steps exactly.
As mentioned, it's very hard to find the kit and it's expensive.

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2025, 08:54:13 AM »

I did my Stelvio and a friends Griso.
On the Stelvio I needed to pull the heads. That kit included new head gaskets.
On the Griso I just swapped out the rocker box. (you need to loosen the chain tensioners)

The jobs were a lot different due to the year of manufacture. There was a kit A, kit B and kit C. It looks like all of the Norge's were kit A. I think kit C included valve spring shims, thus the need to pull the head.

If I remember right, your Norge and kit A is a fairly easy job. Releasing the cam chain tensioner is likely to worse part.

Moparnut72 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2025, 10:01:11 AM »

I don't know too much about this issue but if the valve springs need to be changed couldn't the valves be held closed by compressed air? I am probably missing something?
kk

Bulldog9 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2025, 10:10:18 AM »

Post up where you are. VERY likely someone is in your area or close and would be willing to assist. I've not done it, but I have watched it done several times. It is not that hard if you take your time.

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2025, 10:13:40 AM »

Quote from: Moparnut72 on February 25, 2025, 10:01:11 AM

I don't know too much about this issue but if the valve springs need to be changed couldn't the valves be held closed by compressed air? I am probably missing something?
kk

It was years ago, and I am too lazy to look it up. It was a valve spring shim change I believe. Yes, you could do it with air pressure, and I believe some stuffed the cylinder with a rope. (maybe, it has been a while). I followed the factory steps, and likely a writeup from Pete Roper.
Either way, the chart I found implies the Norge has the proper valve springs in place already, so no drama with a Norge. Just the rocker box.

Moparnut72 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2025, 11:06:14 AM »

I was going to mention the rope method but I thought I might get some flak over that one. I use it quite often to get the flywheel nut off outboard motors to get to the points. They usually have been in place for decades and even a rattle gun can't break them loose without some sort of resistance. But the rattle gun works great breaking the flywheel loose from the crank, the rope works there also since it is already there.
kk

Nowheelies · « **Reply #19 on:** February 26, 2025, 10:18:27 PM »

I am in the Duluth area. Minnesota that is. Snowmobiles, ore boats and dogsled races.

Got busy and pushed this aside for a couple of days. I am moving towards doing this myself. I have done a fair amount of wrenching on car repairs, but mostly alternators, starters and brake repairs. Pretty much whatever I can unbolt , remove and bolt the new in I will do it.

Guess I will read and reread whatever I can find on this problem and see if I care to tackle it. Nothing I hate worse than taking something apart and getting stalled out on something I cannot figure out. Then it sits there nagging the back of my brain until I hate the thing. Been there, done that too many times.

Or as everyone's hero says "A man ought to know his limitations"

guzzisteve · « **Reply #20 on:** February 27, 2025, 07:44:52 AM »

I think you could do this, just take your time and don't get in a hurry or ahead of yourself. I found spacers to put on cylinder studs after you take cambox off. Snug nuts on and the oily mess doesn't come out at cyl base.
Thought you might be close to here, I'd do it for you.

Bulldog9 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2025, 11:10:03 AM »

Hopefully someone with skill is local to you. Barring that, this is a great resource from the master.

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/30458-the-definitive-guide-to-rollerisation/

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=78160.0

John Warner · « **Reply #22 on:** February 27, 2025, 11:16:35 AM »

It's really not a difficult job.
I've done mine plus one other, and am doing another in a couple of weeks.
The only bit of the job that makes me hold my breath is forcing the L/H Cam-Chain Tensioner Blade back away from the Chain, as you have to lever directly on the Blade.
As long as you get a decently stiff Lever (it needs to be fairly thin to fit in the gap), and make sure you get it far enough down so you're pushing in the area where the Tensioner Plunger and Spring are located (so you're not bending the Tensioner Blade) it's not too bad.

Only guide you need really is Pete Roper's video, but it may help to read through the text/photo version too, as it's your first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzAO_JV4gU4

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Author Topic: Roller cam? (Read 3177 times)